N. Kosovo town to hold referendum Feb. 15

Albanians, get over Presevo! There will be no land swap! If your masters the EU/NATO want Serbia to recognize Kosovo as a whole, they surely will not allow the villagers to go wild and try to expand and unify other territory. You guys still don't get this isn't all about you and what other issues this opens up across the WORLD if everyone got to redraw borders... but since when did you Albanians view things through the big picture anyway? And Ben, stop telling yourself lies. Serbs in Mitrovica and north recognize Pristina? HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!! Hey, like I told you before, you guys can believe in fairy tales....

"Since they are inside the agreed borders of Kosova they belong to Kosova. "
(Demi, 4 January 2012 12:29)

Who 'agreed' on these (provincial) borders? They were artificially drawn when the autonomous province of Kosovo within YU was formed.

Are you kidding, BT, watch some Albanian news for the truth? You must be hitting the crack pipe early today. Pristina is pure criminality, including their censored media. BTW, the Serbs in N. KiM want nothing to do with the organ-harvesting and drug dealing criminals in KiM, that is the truth - so live with it.

This municipalitys are just making sure that they do not belong to Serbia since they work by them self without the blessing of the goverment in Belgrade. Since they are inside the agreed borders of Kosova they belong to Kosova.

The resolution means nothing since we already know what serbs in northern Kosova feel. We also know what albanians in Preshevo feels but there is no need for a resolution to show that.

This resolution will tell us nothing and will no help anyone. Northern Kosova will still be a part of Kosova and nothing will change. If it was a problem the goverment in Prishtina would be worried. The don't even pay attention to this nonsens.

The resolution means nothing since we already know what serbs in northern Kosova feel.
(Demi)

Do you? But a lot of your fellow Albanians including Prishtina "politicians" keep saying that KSerbs are loyal to Prishtina with the exception of few "criminals" who don't like "law and order".

Here we go.Albanians are gone have a referendum soon in preshevo valley .not to accept Serbian institutions.

OK, I like the question. It was obvious that it would be something like "do you accept the other side", but I did not expect to see the words "Republic of Kosovo" in it. That's what happens when you do not coordinate with Belgrade. Anyone in the foreign ministry could have told them to use "Albanian institutions" or "temporary Albanian institutions", or something else instead of "Republic of Kosovo". Or maybe the question is phrased like this to tell to everybody that they recognize that the entity "Republic of Kosovo" exists and they recognize it but do not want to be a part of it. In which case, this is a partition type of question, which goes beyond the official stance of the government in Belgrade. It would probably explain why Belgrade does not like it.

"Do you believe Karla del Ponte is Belgrade/Moscow agent?
(aaayyy,"

She including Dick Marty are just scampers, till now only useful to play the Serbs into some fake fantasy that they are not the butchers of the balkans because Carla & Dick say so...

How many years non stop have the Serbs used their fact-less sentences like Gods commands? Exactly, that is all you got till that dream crushes on the people that have lifted it so high, just like your other dreams against your neighbors, all neighbors.

Are you kidding, BT, watch some Albanian news for the truth? You must be hitting the crack pipe early today. Pristina is pure criminality, including their censored media. BTW, the Serbs in N. KiM want nothing to do with the organ-harvesting and drug dealing criminals in KiM, that is the truth - so live with it.
(winston, 4 January 2012 14:03)

It's probably you who are high on crack who talks about the fake stuff. Do you have facts about organ trafficking? NO! You and Belgrade and Moscow are clowns who try to find the fake stuff.Have not you seen on TV where three or four Serbian agents trying to bribe a Serb to lie about organ trafficking? if you have not seen click on this link then!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGYqdvyRXy0

Drink some milk and sleep!

If EU/Thaci leave the North alone there will be stability in Balkans.

There must be an agreement for Serbian police to enter Northern Kosovo to avoid virtual or real "criminalisation" of northern Kosovo.

(aaayyy, 4 January 2012 12:43)

But wait is it permissible under 1244?

The only way to to avoid conflict repetition and keep law and order that Eulex, Merkel and Pristina keep harping on about is to agree on the entry of the Serbian police. They are the only ones respected by the North and are the only ones capable of implementing law without bloodshed and further violence there.

Do you? But a lot of your fellow Albanians including Prishtina "politicians" keep saying that KSerbs are loyal to Prishtina with the exception of few "criminals" who don't like "law and order".
(aaayyy, 4 January 2012 13:03)

Yes the are serbs in North that don't have any problems with Prishtina. And these serbs have said that they don't recognize independence of Kosovo but they except the new reality. These serbs are now controlled by the
Criminals. What do you think could happend to these serbs if they say that they don't have
any problems with prishtina? And they execept the new reality? They would probably get beat down or something. You and other are watching kremlins's propaganda news channel like Russia Today. Watch some albanian news channel and you will see whats really going on in norh kosovo.

You and Belgrade and Moscow are clowns who try to find the fake stuff.
(BT)

Do you believe Karla del Ponte is Belgrade/Moscow agent?

(aaayyy, 4 January 2012 12:43)

But wait is it permissible under 1244?
(Soki)

Yes, 1244 says that agreed number of Serbian police is to return to Kosovo.

So to answer your quesiton - yes serbia did agree to the borders.
(truthiness, 4 January 2012 21:34)

Are you serious? You really believe Serbia was all for splitting themselves up into Serbia, Vojvodina and Kosovo right? You think they really went with the program willingly? I'm sure that was all "democratically" done. I'm sure the Serbs in Visegrad in Bosnia really belonged in Bosnia. And I'm sure the Croats in Mostar were all down with Bosnia too. Truthi (or should we call you Mr. Propoganda?), more Kool Aid for you...boy,you guys are joke (you especially). Fairy tales young man, more fairy tales...give yourself some thumbs up while you're at it troll.

Do you? But a lot of your fellow Albanians including Prishtina "politicians" keep saying that KSerbs are loyal to Prishtina with the exception of few "criminals" who don't like "law and order".
(aaayyy, 4 January 2012 13:03)

Yes the are serbs in North that don't have any problems with Prishtina. And these serbs have said that they don't recognize independence of Kosovo but they except the new reality. These serbs are now controlled by the
Criminals. What do you think could happend to these serbs if they say that they don't have
any problems with prishtina? And they execept the new reality? They would probably get beat down or something.
(BT, 4 January 2012 13:33)

"but they except the new reality" - do you mean "ACCEPT the new reality", is it Freudian slip, :)

They "accept the new reality" means that they are not ready for armed resistance. But the question will not be "are you ready for armed resistance", but if they want Albanian schools, courts, police.

BTW a lot of Albanians did accept YU reality and didn't have problem with YU police (though they could support Kosovo independence). They were considered as treators and forced to join the KLA by Albanian criminals ...

Who 'agreed' on these (provincial) borders? They were artificially drawn when the autonomous province of Kosovo within YU was formed.
(Analyst, 4 January 2012 14:01)

The governement of Yugoslavia at the time , passed through the legal legislative bodies of the time , approved by all the respective national communist representatives and decreed by Tito. By the way - all finalised in Belgrade - if you weren't aware is in Serbia.

So to answer your quesiton - yes serbia did agree to the borders.

"I'm sure that was all 'democratically' done. I'm sure the Serbs in Visegrad in Bosnia really belonged in Bosnia.[...] Fairy tales young man, more fairy tales...give yourself some thumbs up while you're at it troll."

Alright. You don't like fairy tales. Accepted. So let's rather stay with the facts:

Because the Serbs in Visegrad used to think they belonged to Serbia, they massacred their Muslim neighbors on the Mehmed Paša Sokolović Bridge. Afterwards, they threw their bodies into the Drina.

Does that make you feel any better?

yes serbia did agree to the borders.
(truthiness, 4 January 2012 21:34)

These administrative borders were supposed to be exactly as they were - administrative borders, not state borders.

Tomislav USA wrote:

"You really believe Serbia was all for splitting themselves up into Serbia, Vojvodina and Kosovo right?"

If you look at any map that portrayed Serbia before 1913, it did not include neither Kosovo, Vojvodina, nor Sandjak for that matter. These were all territories Serbia expanded into after the Balkan wars and after WWI (with the help of one alliance or another).

While they were successful in forcefully changing the population ratio in Vojvodina, partially due to its proximity to Belgrade, and due to Vojvodina being a much more developed area, they were not able to do so in Kosovo or Sandjak.

This was mostly due to the fact that Serb colonists didn't want to live in the poorest area of the Balkans, even though they were offered free land, free homes and so on. They would move into Kosovo, live there a few years so they take ownership of the land, sell it for a big chunk of change, and return to Serbia, buy bigger homes, and even have money left over.

Then, they would complain that Albanians forced them to leave, so they would not have to pay back the government grants that were used to give them land and homes in Kosovo.

FYI - my family, who originates from Podujevo, still has the original land titles issued by the Serb Kingdom when they occupied Kosovo in 1912 and claimed that "they will respect the ownership rights and so on..." and actually issued the land title based on the ottoman ownership documents.

That didn't last long - they became worthless when the land was confiscated and given to Serb colonists a few years later.

It may seem like a fairy tale, but it is what it is...

Who will provide the funds to hold the referendum. No funds, hence, no referendum! The North Kosova Serbs will be forced to sell all their tractors on the cheap in order to fund their illegal referendum. After that, no more barricades. They will then be proud citizens of Kosova, which they could have been without selling their tractors. But, not to worry, they can buy them back from their Albanian neighbors, provided they can afford the new price.
(The Count of Kosova, 5 January 2012 04:56)

Your Albanians are so desperate for food that Serbian Monasteries have had to build walls around their lands to stop from your Albos from stealing their produce. The last time this was done was in the middle ages and now in 2012..
Buying tractors from Serbs, you’d be lucky.

It may seem like a fairy tale, but it is what it is...
(A Kosovar, 5 January 2012 06:01)

Your response's context didn't even address what I responded to Truther. Way to follow a conversation- bravo! Let me simplify it for you... Truther implied that the Serbs willingly went along with the changes of administrative borders which we all know is baloney. You come in and start giving history lessons to justify the borders which wasn't even the argument! The borders were never really intended to be hard borders in the first place! Once again, logic and reason (and the ability to follow conversations) seems to escape some of you...

Helsinki Process norms basically lay down that there shall be no change in borders within Europe without the consent of all concerned. Which in this case there manifestly isn't.

So all desintegration of YU was illegal.

Yes, 1244 says that agreed number of Serbian police is to return to Kosovo.
(aaayyy, 4 January 2012 16:55
Sorry mate but that is not what it says, it says an agreed number of Serbian and Yugoslav personnel can return but to do the 4 listed functions none of which is "police" functions. They may demine minefields, act as a liason between the local community and the internationals, and maintain a presence at key border crossings and patrimonial sites. Police functions are not listed and it is specific that ONLY these tasks are allowed.

Who will provide the funds to hold the referendum. No funds, hence, no referendum! The North Kosova Serbs will be forced to sell all their tractors on the cheap in order to fund their illegal referendum. After that, no more barricades. They will then be proud citizens of Kosova, which they could have been without selling their tractors. But, not to worry, they can buy them back from their Albanian neighbors, provided they can afford the new price.

Helsinki Process norms basically lay down that there shall be no change in borders within Europe without the consent of all concerned. Which in this case there manifestly isn't.

So all desintegration of YU was illegal.
(aaayyy, 5 January 2012 02:18)
Serbs seem to have some kind of misconception that Helsinki is an international law. It is an agreement between several countries similar to many other agreements that are made and then broken daily. A party could ask the ICJ for a judgement on the violation of any agreement but that would still not make it "illegal"
If you violate a contract a judge may rule that you are accountable for any damages caused or not, or rule that you must abide by the contract. But that would not make the violation Illegal.
Another common mistake is the assumption that Serbs make in that Helsinki is binding on all countries, it is not it only pertains to those countries which signed it. As far as territorial integrity applies it relates to one country making claims on land within anothers borders. ie, Kosovo declaring independence is not a violation of Helsinki, (neither was any breakaway republic), Greece claiming Kosovo as part of Greece is. What about Albania? Albania was not a signer of Helsinki, therefore should it claim Kosovo that in itself would not be a violation of Helsinki (of course other international laws/agreements may apply)

This municipalitys are just making sure that they do not belong to Serbia since they work by them self without the blessing of the goverment in Belgrade. Since they are inside the agreed borders of Kosova they belong to Kosova.

The resolution means nothing since we already know what serbs in northern Kosova feel. We also know what albanians in Preshevo feels but there is no need for a resolution to show that.

This resolution will tell us nothing and will no help anyone. Northern Kosova will still be a part of Kosova and nothing will change. If it was a problem the goverment in Prishtina would be worried. The don't even pay attention to this nonsens.

Are you kidding, BT, watch some Albanian news for the truth? You must be hitting the crack pipe early today. Pristina is pure criminality, including their censored media. BTW, the Serbs in N. KiM want nothing to do with the organ-harvesting and drug dealing criminals in KiM, that is the truth - so live with it.
(winston, 4 January 2012 14:03)

It's probably you who are high on crack who talks about the fake stuff. Do you have facts about organ trafficking? NO! You and Belgrade and Moscow are clowns who try to find the fake stuff.Have not you seen on TV where three or four Serbian agents trying to bribe a Serb to lie about organ trafficking? if you have not seen click on this link then!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGYqdvyRXy0

Drink some milk and sleep!

If EU/Thaci leave the North alone there will be stability in Balkans.

There must be an agreement for Serbian police to enter Northern Kosovo to avoid virtual or real "criminalisation" of northern Kosovo.

Do you? But a lot of your fellow Albanians including Prishtina "politicians" keep saying that KSerbs are loyal to Prishtina with the exception of few "criminals" who don't like "law and order".
(aaayyy, 4 January 2012 13:03)

Yes the are serbs in North that don't have any problems with Prishtina. And these serbs have said that they don't recognize independence of Kosovo but they except the new reality. These serbs are now controlled by the
Criminals. What do you think could happend to these serbs if they say that they don't have
any problems with prishtina? And they execept the new reality? They would probably get beat down or something. You and other are watching kremlins's propaganda news channel like Russia Today. Watch some albanian news channel and you will see whats really going on in norh kosovo.

The resolution means nothing since we already know what serbs in northern Kosova feel.
(Demi)

Do you? But a lot of your fellow Albanians including Prishtina "politicians" keep saying that KSerbs are loyal to Prishtina with the exception of few "criminals" who don't like "law and order".

Albanians, get over Presevo! There will be no land swap! If your masters the EU/NATO want Serbia to recognize Kosovo as a whole, they surely will not allow the villagers to go wild and try to expand and unify other territory. You guys still don't get this isn't all about you and what other issues this opens up across the WORLD if everyone got to redraw borders... but since when did you Albanians view things through the big picture anyway? And Ben, stop telling yourself lies. Serbs in Mitrovica and north recognize Pristina? HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!! Hey, like I told you before, you guys can believe in fairy tales....

(aaayyy, 4 January 2012 12:43)

But wait is it permissible under 1244?

The only way to to avoid conflict repetition and keep law and order that Eulex, Merkel and Pristina keep harping on about is to agree on the entry of the Serbian police. They are the only ones respected by the North and are the only ones capable of implementing law without bloodshed and further violence there.

"Since they are inside the agreed borders of Kosova they belong to Kosova. "
(Demi, 4 January 2012 12:29)

Who 'agreed' on these (provincial) borders? They were artificially drawn when the autonomous province of Kosovo within YU was formed.

"Do you believe Karla del Ponte is Belgrade/Moscow agent?
(aaayyy,"

She including Dick Marty are just scampers, till now only useful to play the Serbs into some fake fantasy that they are not the butchers of the balkans because Carla & Dick say so...

How many years non stop have the Serbs used their fact-less sentences like Gods commands? Exactly, that is all you got till that dream crushes on the people that have lifted it so high, just like your other dreams against your neighbors, all neighbors.

Are you kidding, BT, watch some Albanian news for the truth? You must be hitting the crack pipe early today. Pristina is pure criminality, including their censored media. BTW, the Serbs in N. KiM want nothing to do with the organ-harvesting and drug dealing criminals in KiM, that is the truth - so live with it.

Here we go.Albanians are gone have a referendum soon in preshevo valley .not to accept Serbian institutions.

Who 'agreed' on these (provincial) borders? They were artificially drawn when the autonomous province of Kosovo within YU was formed.
(Analyst, 4 January 2012 14:01)

The governement of Yugoslavia at the time , passed through the legal legislative bodies of the time , approved by all the respective national communist representatives and decreed by Tito. By the way - all finalised in Belgrade - if you weren't aware is in Serbia.

So to answer your quesiton - yes serbia did agree to the borders.

Do you? But a lot of your fellow Albanians including Prishtina "politicians" keep saying that KSerbs are loyal to Prishtina with the exception of few "criminals" who don't like "law and order".
(aaayyy, 4 January 2012 13:03)

Yes the are serbs in North that don't have any problems with Prishtina. And these serbs have said that they don't recognize independence of Kosovo but they except the new reality. These serbs are now controlled by the
Criminals. What do you think could happend to these serbs if they say that they don't have
any problems with prishtina? And they execept the new reality? They would probably get beat down or something.
(BT, 4 January 2012 13:33)

"but they except the new reality" - do you mean "ACCEPT the new reality", is it Freudian slip, :)

They "accept the new reality" means that they are not ready for armed resistance. But the question will not be "are you ready for armed resistance", but if they want Albanian schools, courts, police.

BTW a lot of Albanians did accept YU reality and didn't have problem with YU police (though they could support Kosovo independence). They were considered as treators and forced to join the KLA by Albanian criminals ...

You and Belgrade and Moscow are clowns who try to find the fake stuff.
(BT)

Do you believe Karla del Ponte is Belgrade/Moscow agent?

(aaayyy, 4 January 2012 12:43)

But wait is it permissible under 1244?
(Soki)

Yes, 1244 says that agreed number of Serbian police is to return to Kosovo.

"I'm sure that was all 'democratically' done. I'm sure the Serbs in Visegrad in Bosnia really belonged in Bosnia.[...] Fairy tales young man, more fairy tales...give yourself some thumbs up while you're at it troll."

Alright. You don't like fairy tales. Accepted. So let's rather stay with the facts:

Because the Serbs in Visegrad used to think they belonged to Serbia, they massacred their Muslim neighbors on the Mehmed Paša Sokolović Bridge. Afterwards, they threw their bodies into the Drina.

Does that make you feel any better?

Tomislav USA wrote:

"You really believe Serbia was all for splitting themselves up into Serbia, Vojvodina and Kosovo right?"

If you look at any map that portrayed Serbia before 1913, it did not include neither Kosovo, Vojvodina, nor Sandjak for that matter. These were all territories Serbia expanded into after the Balkan wars and after WWI (with the help of one alliance or another).

While they were successful in forcefully changing the population ratio in Vojvodina, partially due to its proximity to Belgrade, and due to Vojvodina being a much more developed area, they were not able to do so in Kosovo or Sandjak.

This was mostly due to the fact that Serb colonists didn't want to live in the poorest area of the Balkans, even though they were offered free land, free homes and so on. They would move into Kosovo, live there a few years so they take ownership of the land, sell it for a big chunk of change, and return to Serbia, buy bigger homes, and even have money left over.

Then, they would complain that Albanians forced them to leave, so they would not have to pay back the government grants that were used to give them land and homes in Kosovo.

FYI - my family, who originates from Podujevo, still has the original land titles issued by the Serb Kingdom when they occupied Kosovo in 1912 and claimed that "they will respect the ownership rights and so on..." and actually issued the land title based on the ottoman ownership documents.

That didn't last long - they became worthless when the land was confiscated and given to Serb colonists a few years later.

It may seem like a fairy tale, but it is what it is...

So to answer your quesiton - yes serbia did agree to the borders.
(truthiness, 4 January 2012 21:34)

Are you serious? You really believe Serbia was all for splitting themselves up into Serbia, Vojvodina and Kosovo right? You think they really went with the program willingly? I'm sure that was all "democratically" done. I'm sure the Serbs in Visegrad in Bosnia really belonged in Bosnia. And I'm sure the Croats in Mostar were all down with Bosnia too. Truthi (or should we call you Mr. Propoganda?), more Kool Aid for you...boy,you guys are joke (you especially). Fairy tales young man, more fairy tales...give yourself some thumbs up while you're at it troll.

yes serbia did agree to the borders.
(truthiness, 4 January 2012 21:34)

These administrative borders were supposed to be exactly as they were - administrative borders, not state borders.

Who will provide the funds to hold the referendum. No funds, hence, no referendum! The North Kosova Serbs will be forced to sell all their tractors on the cheap in order to fund their illegal referendum. After that, no more barricades. They will then be proud citizens of Kosova, which they could have been without selling their tractors. But, not to worry, they can buy them back from their Albanian neighbors, provided they can afford the new price.

Yes, 1244 says that agreed number of Serbian police is to return to Kosovo.
(aaayyy, 4 January 2012 16:55
Sorry mate but that is not what it says, it says an agreed number of Serbian and Yugoslav personnel can return but to do the 4 listed functions none of which is "police" functions. They may demine minefields, act as a liason between the local community and the internationals, and maintain a presence at key border crossings and patrimonial sites. Police functions are not listed and it is specific that ONLY these tasks are allowed.

Helsinki Process norms basically lay down that there shall be no change in borders within Europe without the consent of all concerned. Which in this case there manifestly isn't.

So all desintegration of YU was illegal.
(aaayyy, 5 January 2012 02:18)
Serbs seem to have some kind of misconception that Helsinki is an international law. It is an agreement between several countries similar to many other agreements that are made and then broken daily. A party could ask the ICJ for a judgement on the violation of any agreement but that would still not make it "illegal"
If you violate a contract a judge may rule that you are accountable for any damages caused or not, or rule that you must abide by the contract. But that would not make the violation Illegal.
Another common mistake is the assumption that Serbs make in that Helsinki is binding on all countries, it is not it only pertains to those countries which signed it. As far as territorial integrity applies it relates to one country making claims on land within anothers borders. ie, Kosovo declaring independence is not a violation of Helsinki, (neither was any breakaway republic), Greece claiming Kosovo as part of Greece is. What about Albania? Albania was not a signer of Helsinki, therefore should it claim Kosovo that in itself would not be a violation of Helsinki (of course other international laws/agreements may apply)

Who will provide the funds to hold the referendum. No funds, hence, no referendum! The North Kosova Serbs will be forced to sell all their tractors on the cheap in order to fund their illegal referendum. After that, no more barricades. They will then be proud citizens of Kosova, which they could have been without selling their tractors. But, not to worry, they can buy them back from their Albanian neighbors, provided they can afford the new price.
(The Count of Kosova, 5 January 2012 04:56)

Your Albanians are so desperate for food that Serbian Monasteries have had to build walls around their lands to stop from your Albos from stealing their produce. The last time this was done was in the middle ages and now in 2012..
Buying tractors from Serbs, you’d be lucky.

It may seem like a fairy tale, but it is what it is...
(A Kosovar, 5 January 2012 06:01)

Your response's context didn't even address what I responded to Truther. Way to follow a conversation- bravo! Let me simplify it for you... Truther implied that the Serbs willingly went along with the changes of administrative borders which we all know is baloney. You come in and start giving history lessons to justify the borders which wasn't even the argument! The borders were never really intended to be hard borders in the first place! Once again, logic and reason (and the ability to follow conversations) seems to escape some of you...

OK, I like the question. It was obvious that it would be something like "do you accept the other side", but I did not expect to see the words "Republic of Kosovo" in it. That's what happens when you do not coordinate with Belgrade. Anyone in the foreign ministry could have told them to use "Albanian institutions" or "temporary Albanian institutions", or something else instead of "Republic of Kosovo". Or maybe the question is phrased like this to tell to everybody that they recognize that the entity "Republic of Kosovo" exists and they recognize it but do not want to be a part of it. In which case, this is a partition type of question, which goes beyond the official stance of the government in Belgrade. It would probably explain why Belgrade does not like it.

Helsinki Process norms basically lay down that there shall be no change in borders within Europe without the consent of all concerned. Which in this case there manifestly isn't.

So all desintegration of YU was illegal.