Mass served for WW2 Croat Nazi leader

'but why does croat facsism make ppl here so happy, when it is just a mirror of its serbian counterpart? the denial and projection is almost laughable.

as to the slurs here about the Jews murdering a million palestinians... especially said in this context, it is a vicious anti-semitic tactic and pushes holocaust revisionism. fascism on all fronts...

we need to fight ag. fascism and support human rights anywhere in the world. these ideologies have no ethnicity, no race, no gender...

ciao. roberto frisco
(roberto, 3 January 2012 17:53)

More lies and propoganda. Roberto, please pick up a history book and read it for a change. Serbia has never, ever, supported fascism or nazism. That's right, look it up, that's a fact jack! The people you support, the albanians, Bosnian muslims, and Croats, supported Nazism with zeal! That's another fact. I'm sure you are proud of the people you support, because you are all of the same ilk.
Cheers!!

Croatia just preparing to join the EU family and showing its loyalty to Germany. The Lithuanian's do the same with their annual Nazi SS march. The family is almost reunited. I don't know what took Croatia so long.

Nothing changes. It's history repeating itself, with Germany and their bootlickers trying to take over Europe again.
Lenard, where were you on Dec. 28'th?

Roberto? Lenard?

Is this also just a "propaganda trick" from the "blgd regime" ?

outrageous

Do you think that maybe even Germany would pay some homage to its Nazi loved ones, if it publicly could? Zebras, and Nazis do not change their stripes.

Please don't let Croatia in to the EU yet. It is not ready.

I am not convinced that there has been sufficient national navel gazing.

There seems to be an arrogance amongst Croats that Croatia can do no wrong.

Wrong.

there is a big guy in the Hague who has been holidaying for about 10 years. I would like his comments on this, or perhaps his thoughts would on the matter would keep him there for another couple of years.
Such a disgrace that the croation people still worship the Nazi/Nato

Chetniks were Royalists and not fascists. They did not have a policy of mass murder and genocide.. They fought AGAINST pavelic and the ustasa. They commited some grudge killings, but compared to the Ustasa they were angels.. You need to educate yourself and they are not as highly regarded as the Ustasa are in Croatia.. The great French leader de Gaulle called the chetniks heroes.

What's next?? You're going to tell me Ghadaffi commited genocide in Libya?? You know it's a lie just like the Srebrenica thing..

Aha..."European Values". Now I understand.

How do these people have no shame? It is unreal. Such hate-filled NAZIs.

Bam bam and the other misinformed,

Let me ask you a question...

...do you get angry at penicillin when it eradicates syphilis?

Draza Mihajlovic and Chetniks were the penicillin to your Pavelic/Ustasha syphilis.

Your Ustasha, Nazis, Bosnian Moslem Handschar and Albanian Moslem Skandebeg SS units and their supporters were all a disease that needed eradicating in the '40s...the Chetniks were part of the cure.

The Serbs didn't create Draza...your Nazi insanity did. Your policy to exterminate Serbs, Jews and Roma did...

So go cry a river somewhere else.

at any rate, i cannot speak for leonard, but fascism and its many manifestations disgusts me anywhere it surfaces, whether it is in zagreb, belgrade or even here in the us (check some of our republican candidates.)
but why does croat facsism make ppl here so happy, when it is just a mirror of its serbian counterpart? the denial and projection is almost laughable.
===============================

Ah Roberto, it must've killed to to say anything negative about the Croats but you had to balance it out with throwing mud at Serbs.
What a pathetic creature you are.
Can't you just say how despicable it was and leave it at that, just like you say how despicable the Serbs are and never balance that statement by saying that Croats are not better?

Too much to ask for.

(metrod, 3 January 2012 23:28)

The level of some of the albanian commentators never ceases to amaze me. Draza a Nazi collaborator?? You obviously are a product of the albanian education system. Well metrod, let me feed you some truth, you are in dire need of it. General Draza Mihajlovic was awarded the Legion of Merit by the US of A (your heros). That is the highest honour which can be awarded to non-US citizens. Charles de Gaulle considered Mihajlovic a 'pure hero' and refused to have meetings with Tito because he murdured Mihajlovic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEa_Mihailovi%C4%87

Those lies you spew about Mihajlovic being a nazi collaborator are pure garbage to anyone who is educated about the topic. You obviously are not. I would love to have a battle of wits with you, but that would leave you unarmed. Read up and educate yourself.
Cheers!!

Mass murdering Jews who since 1948 have killed,maimed,burnt & imprisoned 1,000,000 Palestinians have the decency to tell who we can and can't have mass for. The Serbs aren't any better either here they rave and rant about Pavelic when Draza convicted and executed war criminal is not only considered a hero in serbia but church leaders continue to put him on a pedestal. This is why Croatia is in the E.U because it is a true democracy. When people can celebrate Pavelic's, Tito's & even the gay parade without a problem it goes it goes to that the Serbs have learnt nothing from Jasenovac, take Srebrenica and many other ethnically cleansed area's. Don't worry I wont mention the Blieburg massacre.

Ah Ante Pavelic, the greatest pro-German lapdog the Croatian people have ever produced.

@ BamBam

I don't even know where to begin..
To put Draza and Ante in the same sentence, is like comparing Eagles to Rats...

At least have the time to read the wiki for God's sake, even if it's not 100%...

-...more propaganda and rubbish from the blgd regime. milosevic and jeremic up to their dirty racist tricks... bla bla-

So why is it that we dissidents are so often censored, and the blgd intellectual dissidents completely marginalized here, but those who trash us have carte blanche? that, again, is about who and what is facilitating and distorting their um democratic prize winning media.

at any rate, i cannot speak for leonard, but fascism and its many manifestations disgusts me anywhere it surfaces, whether it is in zagreb, belgrade or even here in the us (check some of our republican candidates.)
but why does croat facsism make ppl here so happy, when it is just a mirror of its serbian counterpart? the denial and projection is almost laughable.

as to the slurs here about the Jews murdering a million palestinians... especially said in this context, it is a vicious anti-semitic tactic and pushes holocaust revisionism. fascism on all fronts...

we need to fight ag. fascism and support human rights anywhere in the world. these ideologies have no ethnicity, no race, no gender...

ciao. roberto frisco

There are a lot of comments on "Mass served" for Pavelic without many really understanding what that is. Catholics have a tradition of praying for the souls of the departed in hope that those who have departed had reconciled themselves to God and that God hears the petitions of those who asked (paid) for a Mass to be said.

It is not a Mass "honouring" anybody.

Asking for such things to be banned are therefore a misnomer. And with Mass said in 2 churches in Croatia, a country with at least 1,600 parishes and even more churches than that - there is no floodgate of masses for Pavelic.

As for apologists for Draza Mihailovic, yes he may have been honoured by the US, but other not so good people were on the US "nice list" including Sadaam Hussein.

Chetnik massacres commenced in April 1941, that the Ustase were more successful in their initial reign of terror does not excuse Chetnik crimes against Muslims and Croats. Pavelic and Mihailovic never personally massacred anyone but they are responsible for genocide committed in their names.

Those who defend Mihailovic are also usually ignorant of the fact that the chetnik movement for greater Serbia is the spark that caused the breakup of Yugoslavia and is responsible for the vast majority of the crimes against humanity in the former Yugoslavia!

Those lies you spew about Mihajlovic being a nazi collaborator are pure garbage to anyone who is educated about the topic. You obviously are not. I would love to have a battle of wits with you, but that would leave you unarmed. Read up and educate yourself.
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 4 January 2012 15:05)

Watch and learn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VimCz74bEQ

Roberto? Lenard?

Is this also just a "propaganda trick" from the "blgd regime" ?
(Srboslav, 3 January 2012 12:52)

more propaganda and rubbish from the blgd regime. milosevic and jeremic up to their dirty racist tricks.

Dung.

roberto.

EVERY single nation in the Balkans sees its own as heores. Selective history and memory seems to be part and parcel of national identity.

When will the people in the Balkans wake up and see all life is equal in the eyes of God.

The idea of a Mass being said for Pavelic is just as repugnant as the notion that Mladic or Karadzic being praised as some sort of national heroes in Serbia. Do you not see their actions are identical. They are the same!!!!They were all committing evil acts.

The notion that you are somehow "angels" (which ever side you are on)because you murdered less innocent than the guy who murdered more innocent is beyond stupidity.

The logic being used here is incomprehensible. No wonder the term "balkan mentality' had such a negative association.

Seems whenever the region takes one step forward - you can bet some goose will get up and lead it two steps straight back.

Funny that roberto thinks it makes people here "happy" - instead it makes people angry and shows the huge hypocrisy of the world and how it cares not a bit about fascism if the victims are Serbs. Croats were free to do it then - no other country stopped them, they just collapsed after their German backers retreated; and they are free to worship it today with no condemnation by the EU. And then the press and EU countries will even, in this case, refrain from bringing out the abuse of Jews because it would cause some people to do a little research and then they'd find out about Serb victims.

Let's get some perspective on this issue. In 1941 the Germans and their numerous allies invade and dissmember Yugoslavia. Hot on their heels come Pavelic's blackshirts, who takeover in Zagreb and attempt to control two thirds of Yugoslav territory by establishing the NDH. The Ustashe are hellbent on emulating their sponsors the nazi's by exterminating the Serbian population. I don't think there is any disputing this, unless of course you happen to be a Croat nationalist headcase. Mihailovic's people appear on the scene as a response to the nazi occupation in Serbia, and the Croat genocide in the NDH. Nobody denies there were revenge attacks by Serb militia's during the civil war, but to equate the two sides as somehow on a par with each other as communist propagandists always did is absurd and laughable. Mihailovic was a Yugoslav army officer. Pavelic was a genocidal maniac who even the SS found repugnant. To worship him in church is vile. It would be like offering memorial services to Adolf Hitler in Germany. Shameful. The EU need to get a grip on this and fast.

"More lies and propoganda. Roberto, please pick up a history book and read it for a change. Serbia has never, ever, supported fascism or nazism. That's right, look it up, that's a fact jack! The people you support, the albanians, Bosnian muslims, and Croats, supported Nazism with zeal! That's another fact. I'm sure you are proud of the people you support, because you are all of the same ilk.
Cheers!!
(Dragan"

It's you and some of your kin who should pick up a book or two and read.
For starters, since we're talking about facts, Chetnicks and your dear Draza, I'm sure of whom you have a picture hanging somehwere in your house, was a Nazi collaborator.
And, if you want me to prove it I will.
On one hand you and your kin go around bragging how tough and mighty the Serbs are. Then, you wine and cry about your misfortunes. You blame the world for Serbia's troubles as if the Serbs are not guilty of it.

Man up! Quit playing a victim already. It's pathetic!

'the chetnik movement for greater Serbia is the spark that caused the breakup of Yugoslavia and is responsible for the vast majority of the crimes against humanity in the former Yugoslavia!'

Actually, not so. The spark for the break up of Jugoslavija was the desire of the Serbian leadership to strengthen the federation and Slovenia / Croatia's desire to loosen the federation or to abandon the federation altogether. What added a national element was the position on Kosovo. The Slovenes resented Serbia's position of the latter having control over Kosovo, whilst at the same time the former was paying more into federal funds which went to Kosovo.

The wider economic reasoning why Slovenia particularly wanted to leave is well known and accepted as a reason for break up for those that analyse Jugoslavija. Thats not to say thats not to say that nationalist movements over the former Jug made things worse.

Also one cannot really blame the cetnik movement for the 'vast majority' of crimes in the recent wars. War crimes were committed by war criminals who hid behind the cover of nationalism.

By the way 'There are a lot of comments on "Mass served" for Pavelic without many really understanding what that is. Catholics have a tradition of praying for the souls of the departed in hope that those who have departed had reconciled themselves to God and that God hears the petitions of those who asked (paid) for a Mass to be said.' could also easily apply to the Serbian priest who gave blessings on the battlefield - specifically in Srebrenica.

Just because religion has this aspect of 'forgiveness' it doesn't mean that we all have to agree with it.

@ truthiness

Serbian mentality, well explained.

Mass murdering Jews who since 1948 have killed,maimed,burnt & imprisoned 1,000,000 Palestinians have the decency to tell who we can and can't have mass for. The Serbs aren't any better either here they rave and rant about Pavelic when Draza convicted and executed war criminal is not only considered a hero in serbia but church leaders continue to put him on a pedestal. This is why Croatia is in the E.U because it is a true democracy. When people can celebrate Pavelic's, Tito's & even the gay parade without a problem it goes it goes to that the Serbs have learnt nothing from Jasenovac, take Srebrenica and many other ethnically cleansed area's. Don't worry I wont mention the Blieburg massacre.

-...more propaganda and rubbish from the blgd regime. milosevic and jeremic up to their dirty racist tricks... bla bla-

So why is it that we dissidents are so often censored, and the blgd intellectual dissidents completely marginalized here, but those who trash us have carte blanche? that, again, is about who and what is facilitating and distorting their um democratic prize winning media.

at any rate, i cannot speak for leonard, but fascism and its many manifestations disgusts me anywhere it surfaces, whether it is in zagreb, belgrade or even here in the us (check some of our republican candidates.)
but why does croat facsism make ppl here so happy, when it is just a mirror of its serbian counterpart? the denial and projection is almost laughable.

as to the slurs here about the Jews murdering a million palestinians... especially said in this context, it is a vicious anti-semitic tactic and pushes holocaust revisionism. fascism on all fronts...

we need to fight ag. fascism and support human rights anywhere in the world. these ideologies have no ethnicity, no race, no gender...

ciao. roberto frisco

Roberto? Lenard?

Is this also just a "propaganda trick" from the "blgd regime" ?
(Srboslav, 3 January 2012 12:52)

more propaganda and rubbish from the blgd regime. milosevic and jeremic up to their dirty racist tricks.

Dung.

roberto.

Chetniks were Royalists and not fascists. They did not have a policy of mass murder and genocide.. They fought AGAINST pavelic and the ustasa. They commited some grudge killings, but compared to the Ustasa they were angels.. You need to educate yourself and they are not as highly regarded as the Ustasa are in Croatia.. The great French leader de Gaulle called the chetniks heroes.

What's next?? You're going to tell me Ghadaffi commited genocide in Libya?? You know it's a lie just like the Srebrenica thing..

'but why does croat facsism make ppl here so happy, when it is just a mirror of its serbian counterpart? the denial and projection is almost laughable.

as to the slurs here about the Jews murdering a million palestinians... especially said in this context, it is a vicious anti-semitic tactic and pushes holocaust revisionism. fascism on all fronts...

we need to fight ag. fascism and support human rights anywhere in the world. these ideologies have no ethnicity, no race, no gender...

ciao. roberto frisco
(roberto, 3 January 2012 17:53)

More lies and propoganda. Roberto, please pick up a history book and read it for a change. Serbia has never, ever, supported fascism or nazism. That's right, look it up, that's a fact jack! The people you support, the albanians, Bosnian muslims, and Croats, supported Nazism with zeal! That's another fact. I'm sure you are proud of the people you support, because you are all of the same ilk.
Cheers!!

There are a lot of comments on "Mass served" for Pavelic without many really understanding what that is. Catholics have a tradition of praying for the souls of the departed in hope that those who have departed had reconciled themselves to God and that God hears the petitions of those who asked (paid) for a Mass to be said.

It is not a Mass "honouring" anybody.

Asking for such things to be banned are therefore a misnomer. And with Mass said in 2 churches in Croatia, a country with at least 1,600 parishes and even more churches than that - there is no floodgate of masses for Pavelic.

As for apologists for Draza Mihailovic, yes he may have been honoured by the US, but other not so good people were on the US "nice list" including Sadaam Hussein.

Chetnik massacres commenced in April 1941, that the Ustase were more successful in their initial reign of terror does not excuse Chetnik crimes against Muslims and Croats. Pavelic and Mihailovic never personally massacred anyone but they are responsible for genocide committed in their names.

Those who defend Mihailovic are also usually ignorant of the fact that the chetnik movement for greater Serbia is the spark that caused the breakup of Yugoslavia and is responsible for the vast majority of the crimes against humanity in the former Yugoslavia!

Roberto? Lenard?

Is this also just a "propaganda trick" from the "blgd regime" ?

at any rate, i cannot speak for leonard, but fascism and its many manifestations disgusts me anywhere it surfaces, whether it is in zagreb, belgrade or even here in the us (check some of our republican candidates.)
but why does croat facsism make ppl here so happy, when it is just a mirror of its serbian counterpart? the denial and projection is almost laughable.
===============================

Ah Roberto, it must've killed to to say anything negative about the Croats but you had to balance it out with throwing mud at Serbs.
What a pathetic creature you are.
Can't you just say how despicable it was and leave it at that, just like you say how despicable the Serbs are and never balance that statement by saying that Croats are not better?

Too much to ask for.

(metrod, 3 January 2012 23:28)

The level of some of the albanian commentators never ceases to amaze me. Draza a Nazi collaborator?? You obviously are a product of the albanian education system. Well metrod, let me feed you some truth, you are in dire need of it. General Draza Mihajlovic was awarded the Legion of Merit by the US of A (your heros). That is the highest honour which can be awarded to non-US citizens. Charles de Gaulle considered Mihajlovic a 'pure hero' and refused to have meetings with Tito because he murdured Mihajlovic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEa_Mihailovi%C4%87

Those lies you spew about Mihajlovic being a nazi collaborator are pure garbage to anyone who is educated about the topic. You obviously are not. I would love to have a battle of wits with you, but that would leave you unarmed. Read up and educate yourself.
Cheers!!

Croatia just preparing to join the EU family and showing its loyalty to Germany. The Lithuanian's do the same with their annual Nazi SS march. The family is almost reunited. I don't know what took Croatia so long.

Those lies you spew about Mihajlovic being a nazi collaborator are pure garbage to anyone who is educated about the topic. You obviously are not. I would love to have a battle of wits with you, but that would leave you unarmed. Read up and educate yourself.
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 4 January 2012 15:05)

Watch and learn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VimCz74bEQ

EVERY single nation in the Balkans sees its own as heores. Selective history and memory seems to be part and parcel of national identity.

When will the people in the Balkans wake up and see all life is equal in the eyes of God.

The idea of a Mass being said for Pavelic is just as repugnant as the notion that Mladic or Karadzic being praised as some sort of national heroes in Serbia. Do you not see their actions are identical. They are the same!!!!They were all committing evil acts.

The notion that you are somehow "angels" (which ever side you are on)because you murdered less innocent than the guy who murdered more innocent is beyond stupidity.

The logic being used here is incomprehensible. No wonder the term "balkan mentality' had such a negative association.

Seems whenever the region takes one step forward - you can bet some goose will get up and lead it two steps straight back.

Do you think that maybe even Germany would pay some homage to its Nazi loved ones, if it publicly could? Zebras, and Nazis do not change their stripes.

Please don't let Croatia in to the EU yet. It is not ready.

I am not convinced that there has been sufficient national navel gazing.

There seems to be an arrogance amongst Croats that Croatia can do no wrong.

Wrong.

Bam bam and the other misinformed,

Let me ask you a question...

...do you get angry at penicillin when it eradicates syphilis?

Draza Mihajlovic and Chetniks were the penicillin to your Pavelic/Ustasha syphilis.

Your Ustasha, Nazis, Bosnian Moslem Handschar and Albanian Moslem Skandebeg SS units and their supporters were all a disease that needed eradicating in the '40s...the Chetniks were part of the cure.

The Serbs didn't create Draza...your Nazi insanity did. Your policy to exterminate Serbs, Jews and Roma did...

So go cry a river somewhere else.

Nothing changes. It's history repeating itself, with Germany and their bootlickers trying to take over Europe again.
Lenard, where were you on Dec. 28'th?

@ BamBam

I don't even know where to begin..
To put Draza and Ante in the same sentence, is like comparing Eagles to Rats...

At least have the time to read the wiki for God's sake, even if it's not 100%...

How do these people have no shame? It is unreal. Such hate-filled NAZIs.

"More lies and propoganda. Roberto, please pick up a history book and read it for a change. Serbia has never, ever, supported fascism or nazism. That's right, look it up, that's a fact jack! The people you support, the albanians, Bosnian muslims, and Croats, supported Nazism with zeal! That's another fact. I'm sure you are proud of the people you support, because you are all of the same ilk.
Cheers!!
(Dragan"

It's you and some of your kin who should pick up a book or two and read.
For starters, since we're talking about facts, Chetnicks and your dear Draza, I'm sure of whom you have a picture hanging somehwere in your house, was a Nazi collaborator.
And, if you want me to prove it I will.
On one hand you and your kin go around bragging how tough and mighty the Serbs are. Then, you wine and cry about your misfortunes. You blame the world for Serbia's troubles as if the Serbs are not guilty of it.

Man up! Quit playing a victim already. It's pathetic!

Let's get some perspective on this issue. In 1941 the Germans and their numerous allies invade and dissmember Yugoslavia. Hot on their heels come Pavelic's blackshirts, who takeover in Zagreb and attempt to control two thirds of Yugoslav territory by establishing the NDH. The Ustashe are hellbent on emulating their sponsors the nazi's by exterminating the Serbian population. I don't think there is any disputing this, unless of course you happen to be a Croat nationalist headcase. Mihailovic's people appear on the scene as a response to the nazi occupation in Serbia, and the Croat genocide in the NDH. Nobody denies there were revenge attacks by Serb militia's during the civil war, but to equate the two sides as somehow on a par with each other as communist propagandists always did is absurd and laughable. Mihailovic was a Yugoslav army officer. Pavelic was a genocidal maniac who even the SS found repugnant. To worship him in church is vile. It would be like offering memorial services to Adolf Hitler in Germany. Shameful. The EU need to get a grip on this and fast.

outrageous

Ah Ante Pavelic, the greatest pro-German lapdog the Croatian people have ever produced.

there is a big guy in the Hague who has been holidaying for about 10 years. I would like his comments on this, or perhaps his thoughts would on the matter would keep him there for another couple of years.
Such a disgrace that the croation people still worship the Nazi/Nato

Funny that roberto thinks it makes people here "happy" - instead it makes people angry and shows the huge hypocrisy of the world and how it cares not a bit about fascism if the victims are Serbs. Croats were free to do it then - no other country stopped them, they just collapsed after their German backers retreated; and they are free to worship it today with no condemnation by the EU. And then the press and EU countries will even, in this case, refrain from bringing out the abuse of Jews because it would cause some people to do a little research and then they'd find out about Serb victims.

Aha..."European Values". Now I understand.

@ truthiness

Serbian mentality, well explained.

'the chetnik movement for greater Serbia is the spark that caused the breakup of Yugoslavia and is responsible for the vast majority of the crimes against humanity in the former Yugoslavia!'

Actually, not so. The spark for the break up of Jugoslavija was the desire of the Serbian leadership to strengthen the federation and Slovenia / Croatia's desire to loosen the federation or to abandon the federation altogether. What added a national element was the position on Kosovo. The Slovenes resented Serbia's position of the latter having control over Kosovo, whilst at the same time the former was paying more into federal funds which went to Kosovo.

The wider economic reasoning why Slovenia particularly wanted to leave is well known and accepted as a reason for break up for those that analyse Jugoslavija. Thats not to say thats not to say that nationalist movements over the former Jug made things worse.

Also one cannot really blame the cetnik movement for the 'vast majority' of crimes in the recent wars. War crimes were committed by war criminals who hid behind the cover of nationalism.

By the way 'There are a lot of comments on "Mass served" for Pavelic without many really understanding what that is. Catholics have a tradition of praying for the souls of the departed in hope that those who have departed had reconciled themselves to God and that God hears the petitions of those who asked (paid) for a Mass to be said.' could also easily apply to the Serbian priest who gave blessings on the battlefield - specifically in Srebrenica.

Just because religion has this aspect of 'forgiveness' it doesn't mean that we all have to agree with it.