"Referendum political decision of opposition"

I wonder if the Leader of a North Central European Country would have said that Gypsies, Jews, and Slavs did not need a Referendum on Gas Chambers and on the Concentration Camps in general.

The Good, Proper, and Acceptable thing for Anglo-America and Continental European Countries to do is to withdraw their Evil support for the Illegal and Immoral unilateral declaration of independence by the Albanians of Serbia’s Province of Kosovo.

'To the journalist's comment that he appears to suspect the motive for the referendum is to lower Serbia's chances of getting EU candidate status, Bogdanović's response was brief - yes. '

Yes of course, we all know that the undemocratic and authoritarian Berlin controlled EU hates democratic referendums. When Papandreou tried to hold a referendum on austerity measures dictated from Berlin, they sacked him. He was replaced by an unelected wall street stooge, who will follow orders obediently. This is how the EU works, and I am very happy that this referendum will help Serbia stay out of it.
Cheers!!

"Serbs in Kosovo do not recognize the decisions of the Serbian government and the talks lead by Borislav Stefanović, Bogdanović said "of course they don't."

So they are acting against the Serbia's state policy and interests. Sack them what are you waiting? Where is the rubbit hiding?

This shows that Serbs have too much rights in Kosovo.

Why don't make it a more general referendum in whole Serbia (with Kosovo and Metohija) about the use, or not (!) to join the European Union?
You don't dare, do you?

The Good, Proper, and Acceptable thing for Anglo-America and Continental European Countries to do is to withdraw their Evil support for the Illegal and Immoral unilateral declaration of independence by the Albanians of Serbia’s Province of Kosovo.
(Yet Another J S, 27 December 2011 11:02)

But the UDI is in accordance with international law my dear... where have you been in the last 1.5 years ?!

This shows that Serbs have too much rights in Kosovo.
(Avni, 27 December 2011 15:20)

There must be truly reciprocity, not paper one -
1) 100 000+ KSerbs had to leave Kosovo = make 100 000+ Albanians leave central Serbia
2) Ghettorization of KSerb enclaves = the same for Albanian enclave in central Serbia
3) ethnically pure Prishtina = Albanian free Belgrade
4) tendency to ethnically pure Kosovo = Albanian free central Serbia

But the UDI is in accordance with international law my dear... where have you been in the last 1.5 years ?!
(icj1, 27 December 2011 16:23)

UDI by itself is juridical zero so it doesn't matter what a court said concerning the issue, while recognitions of UDI are illegal under 1244.

We are all so tired of the "declaration" bla, bla, and the actual "independence of Kosovo" bla, bla. Please, most of us are here daily, so let's cut the crap. Albanians had the right to claim they are independent, but that does not mean they are, legally. That's what the ICJ said. Can we end this crap, please?

"Respectfully noted... unfortunatelly you are not the authority who decides what is juridically zero or not and what is legal or illegal under 1244. So, for now, the UDI remains in accordance with international law (which includes 1244) and I don't see an issue with somebody recognizing a legal act. "
(icj1, 28 December 2011 05:44)

Yes, ICJ ruled that every group can declare themselves independent, it doesn't violate any law. It's up to other countries if they recognize this UDI or not. So, in case of Kosovo, some did, some did not, most did it for various reasons, some were bribed, but in the end, when it comes to becoming an internationally accepted (UN member) state, any UDI will fail.

"Respectfully noted... unfortunatelly you are not the authority who decides what is juridically zero or not and what is legal or illegal under 1244. So, for now, the UDI remains in accordance with international law (which includes 1244) and I don't see an issue with somebody recognizing a legal act. "
(icj1, 28 December 2011 05:44)

Any UDI is juridical zero by definition. It means declaration of UDI is always legal (one doesn't even have to ask icj about it), while it doesn't make the declaring group an independent state, only recognitions from UN members do. In case of Kosovo recognitions of UDI are illegal according to 1244. Conclusion: Kosovo isn't independent state.

So, for now, the UDI remains in accordance with international law (which includes 1244) and I don't see an issue with somebody recognizing a legal act. "
(icj1, 28 December 2011 05:44)

The fact that you don't see an issue doesn't mean that the issue doesn't exist.

It goes exactly like that: UDI is legal (but meaningless), while recognitions of UDI are illegal (in Kosovo case), which matters much.

UDI by itself is juridical zero so it doesn't matter what a court said concerning the issue, while recognitions of UDI are illegal under 1244.
(aaayyy, 27 December 2011 19:02)

Respectfully noted... unfortunatelly you are not the authority who decides what is juridically zero or not and what is legal or illegal under 1244. So, for now, the UDI remains in accordance with international law (which includes 1244) and I don't see an issue with somebody recognizing a legal act.

But don't be discouraged; keep up the hard work :)

Please, most of us are here daily, so let's cut the crap. Albanians had the right to claim they are independent, but that does not mean they are, legally. That's what the ICJ said. Can we end this crap, please?
(winston, 27 December 2011 19:07)

I fully agree to end it immediately becase the ICJ never said that ! That was pure fanstasy on your part so let's end it.

Yes, ICJ ruled that every group can declare themselves independent, it doesn't violate any law. It's up to other countries if they recognize this UDI or not.
(Analyst, 28 December 2011 11:39)

Of great, finally somebody started to understand that the UDI is not illegal.
----------

So, in case of Kosovo, some did, some did not, most did it for various reasons, some were bribed, but in the end, when it comes to becoming an internationally accepted (UN member) state, any UDI will fail.
(Analyst, 28 December 2011 11:39)

First time I hear that Vatican is not an internationally accepted state or that Switzerland became an internationally accepted state in 2003 or that Ukraine was an internationally accepted state from 1945 to 1991 !

So, in case of Kosovo, some did, some did not, most did it for various reasons, some were bribed, but in the end, when it comes to becoming an internationally accepted (UN member) state, any UDI will fail.
(Analyst, 28 December 2011 11:39)

So, before UN existed there must have been no internationally accepted states at all. The moment UN was created is the big bang of history, there was nothing before that. All the UDIs and fights Serbs had to go through to become free from Ottoman Empire were useless because in the end (1878?) they did not become members of the UN.

It goes exactly like that: UDI is legal (but meaningless), while recognitions of UDI are illegal (in Kosovo case), which matters much.
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 20:39)

Thanks for confirming; the UDI is legal and so those countries have recognized a legal act. Where is the issue with recognizing a legal act ?

As for the rest that the UDI is meaningless or that the recognitions are illegal, those are your opinions, for which you did not offer any argument (beside because you say so) and in any case don't have any effect because nobody appointed you to make that determination.

For some reason comments that are not in accordance with the taste of B92 moderators, are not always posted. So let me try again:
----------

Any UDI is juridical zero by definition.
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 14:28)

That may be true in Serbian – I can’t comment on that because I don’t know Serbian. But, in English, I checked several dictionaries and none of them defined “UDI” as a “juridical 0”. In addition, I was under the impression that Serbia's UDI from the Ottoman Empire was not a juridical 0.
----------

It means declaration of UDI is always legal (one doesn't even have to ask icj about it)
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 14:28)

Well, that depends, my dear. For example, if Resolution 1244 stated that Kosovo cannot declare UDI, the UDI would have been illegal. Or, for example, if Serbs in Bosnia declare UDI that would be illegal under international law (Dayton Accords). In addition, if you analyze them under domestic laws, most UDIs would be illegal. So, it depends on the law applicable to the particular UDI – you can’t make sweeping statements that are not based on anything. Indeed, Vuk had those doubts and had to ask the ICJ. Or did he just do it to destroy Serbia's main argument against Kosovo's UDI since we know that the current Serbian government is full of traitors.
----------

while it doesn't make the declaring group an independent state,
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 14:28)

of course, it doesn’t. Kosovo, for example, has been de-facto independent from Serbia since 1999, long before the 2008 UDI. Kosovo also declared UDI in 1991, but that did not make Kosovo independent from Serbia.
----------

In case of Kosovo recognitions of UDI are illegal according to 1244.
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 14:28)

1244 does not say that (in the Arabic, Chinese, English, French or Russian versions - not sure about the Serbian one) and nobody has ruled that the recognitions are illegal and nobody will ever rule that they are illegal. Saying that the recognition of a legal act is illegal is a contradiction. I’m assuming, of course, that you are always referring to international law. If you are also referring to domestic law, than it may make sense – for example it would be illegal for Serbia under Serbian law to recognize the UDI, even though it would be legal for Serbia to recognize it under international law.
----------

Conclusion: Kosovo isn't independent state.
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 14:28)

Your conclusion was not based on any argument supporting it. One thing that is beyond dispute (all parties agree, Serbia included) is that Kosovo is independent from Serbia and Serbia is not in charge in Kosovo. The only thing that is disputed is whether Kosovo is independent from UN/UNSC/UNMIK/EULEX/KFOR/EU/US/Devil. But it’s not worth arguing about it because all Albanians cared about was to be independent from Serbia. If it makes you happy, we can assume that Kosovo is not independent from UN/UNSC/UNMIK/EULEX/KFOR/EU/US/Devil.

"Serbs in Kosovo do not recognize the decisions of the Serbian government and the talks lead by Borislav Stefanović, Bogdanović said "of course they don't."

So they are acting against the Serbia's state policy and interests. Sack them what are you waiting? Where is the rubbit hiding?

I wonder if the Leader of a North Central European Country would have said that Gypsies, Jews, and Slavs did not need a Referendum on Gas Chambers and on the Concentration Camps in general.

The Good, Proper, and Acceptable thing for Anglo-America and Continental European Countries to do is to withdraw their Evil support for the Illegal and Immoral unilateral declaration of independence by the Albanians of Serbia’s Province of Kosovo.

The Good, Proper, and Acceptable thing for Anglo-America and Continental European Countries to do is to withdraw their Evil support for the Illegal and Immoral unilateral declaration of independence by the Albanians of Serbia’s Province of Kosovo.
(Yet Another J S, 27 December 2011 11:02)

But the UDI is in accordance with international law my dear... where have you been in the last 1.5 years ?!

'To the journalist's comment that he appears to suspect the motive for the referendum is to lower Serbia's chances of getting EU candidate status, Bogdanović's response was brief - yes. '

Yes of course, we all know that the undemocratic and authoritarian Berlin controlled EU hates democratic referendums. When Papandreou tried to hold a referendum on austerity measures dictated from Berlin, they sacked him. He was replaced by an unelected wall street stooge, who will follow orders obediently. This is how the EU works, and I am very happy that this referendum will help Serbia stay out of it.
Cheers!!

This shows that Serbs have too much rights in Kosovo.
(Avni, 27 December 2011 15:20)

There must be truly reciprocity, not paper one -
1) 100 000+ KSerbs had to leave Kosovo = make 100 000+ Albanians leave central Serbia
2) Ghettorization of KSerb enclaves = the same for Albanian enclave in central Serbia
3) ethnically pure Prishtina = Albanian free Belgrade
4) tendency to ethnically pure Kosovo = Albanian free central Serbia

This shows that Serbs have too much rights in Kosovo.

We are all so tired of the "declaration" bla, bla, and the actual "independence of Kosovo" bla, bla. Please, most of us are here daily, so let's cut the crap. Albanians had the right to claim they are independent, but that does not mean they are, legally. That's what the ICJ said. Can we end this crap, please?

But the UDI is in accordance with international law my dear... where have you been in the last 1.5 years ?!
(icj1, 27 December 2011 16:23)

UDI by itself is juridical zero so it doesn't matter what a court said concerning the issue, while recognitions of UDI are illegal under 1244.

Why don't make it a more general referendum in whole Serbia (with Kosovo and Metohija) about the use, or not (!) to join the European Union?
You don't dare, do you?

UDI by itself is juridical zero so it doesn't matter what a court said concerning the issue, while recognitions of UDI are illegal under 1244.
(aaayyy, 27 December 2011 19:02)

Respectfully noted... unfortunatelly you are not the authority who decides what is juridically zero or not and what is legal or illegal under 1244. So, for now, the UDI remains in accordance with international law (which includes 1244) and I don't see an issue with somebody recognizing a legal act.

But don't be discouraged; keep up the hard work :)

Please, most of us are here daily, so let's cut the crap. Albanians had the right to claim they are independent, but that does not mean they are, legally. That's what the ICJ said. Can we end this crap, please?
(winston, 27 December 2011 19:07)

I fully agree to end it immediately becase the ICJ never said that ! That was pure fanstasy on your part so let's end it.

Yes, ICJ ruled that every group can declare themselves independent, it doesn't violate any law. It's up to other countries if they recognize this UDI or not.
(Analyst, 28 December 2011 11:39)

Of great, finally somebody started to understand that the UDI is not illegal.
----------

So, in case of Kosovo, some did, some did not, most did it for various reasons, some were bribed, but in the end, when it comes to becoming an internationally accepted (UN member) state, any UDI will fail.
(Analyst, 28 December 2011 11:39)

First time I hear that Vatican is not an internationally accepted state or that Switzerland became an internationally accepted state in 2003 or that Ukraine was an internationally accepted state from 1945 to 1991 !

"Respectfully noted... unfortunatelly you are not the authority who decides what is juridically zero or not and what is legal or illegal under 1244. So, for now, the UDI remains in accordance with international law (which includes 1244) and I don't see an issue with somebody recognizing a legal act. "
(icj1, 28 December 2011 05:44)

Yes, ICJ ruled that every group can declare themselves independent, it doesn't violate any law. It's up to other countries if they recognize this UDI or not. So, in case of Kosovo, some did, some did not, most did it for various reasons, some were bribed, but in the end, when it comes to becoming an internationally accepted (UN member) state, any UDI will fail.

"Respectfully noted... unfortunatelly you are not the authority who decides what is juridically zero or not and what is legal or illegal under 1244. So, for now, the UDI remains in accordance with international law (which includes 1244) and I don't see an issue with somebody recognizing a legal act. "
(icj1, 28 December 2011 05:44)

Any UDI is juridical zero by definition. It means declaration of UDI is always legal (one doesn't even have to ask icj about it), while it doesn't make the declaring group an independent state, only recognitions from UN members do. In case of Kosovo recognitions of UDI are illegal according to 1244. Conclusion: Kosovo isn't independent state.

So, for now, the UDI remains in accordance with international law (which includes 1244) and I don't see an issue with somebody recognizing a legal act. "
(icj1, 28 December 2011 05:44)

The fact that you don't see an issue doesn't mean that the issue doesn't exist.

It goes exactly like that: UDI is legal (but meaningless), while recognitions of UDI are illegal (in Kosovo case), which matters much.

So, in case of Kosovo, some did, some did not, most did it for various reasons, some were bribed, but in the end, when it comes to becoming an internationally accepted (UN member) state, any UDI will fail.
(Analyst, 28 December 2011 11:39)

So, before UN existed there must have been no internationally accepted states at all. The moment UN was created is the big bang of history, there was nothing before that. All the UDIs and fights Serbs had to go through to become free from Ottoman Empire were useless because in the end (1878?) they did not become members of the UN.

It goes exactly like that: UDI is legal (but meaningless), while recognitions of UDI are illegal (in Kosovo case), which matters much.
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 20:39)

Thanks for confirming; the UDI is legal and so those countries have recognized a legal act. Where is the issue with recognizing a legal act ?

As for the rest that the UDI is meaningless or that the recognitions are illegal, those are your opinions, for which you did not offer any argument (beside because you say so) and in any case don't have any effect because nobody appointed you to make that determination.

For some reason comments that are not in accordance with the taste of B92 moderators, are not always posted. So let me try again:
----------

Any UDI is juridical zero by definition.
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 14:28)

That may be true in Serbian – I can’t comment on that because I don’t know Serbian. But, in English, I checked several dictionaries and none of them defined “UDI” as a “juridical 0”. In addition, I was under the impression that Serbia's UDI from the Ottoman Empire was not a juridical 0.
----------

It means declaration of UDI is always legal (one doesn't even have to ask icj about it)
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 14:28)

Well, that depends, my dear. For example, if Resolution 1244 stated that Kosovo cannot declare UDI, the UDI would have been illegal. Or, for example, if Serbs in Bosnia declare UDI that would be illegal under international law (Dayton Accords). In addition, if you analyze them under domestic laws, most UDIs would be illegal. So, it depends on the law applicable to the particular UDI – you can’t make sweeping statements that are not based on anything. Indeed, Vuk had those doubts and had to ask the ICJ. Or did he just do it to destroy Serbia's main argument against Kosovo's UDI since we know that the current Serbian government is full of traitors.
----------

while it doesn't make the declaring group an independent state,
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 14:28)

of course, it doesn’t. Kosovo, for example, has been de-facto independent from Serbia since 1999, long before the 2008 UDI. Kosovo also declared UDI in 1991, but that did not make Kosovo independent from Serbia.
----------

In case of Kosovo recognitions of UDI are illegal according to 1244.
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 14:28)

1244 does not say that (in the Arabic, Chinese, English, French or Russian versions - not sure about the Serbian one) and nobody has ruled that the recognitions are illegal and nobody will ever rule that they are illegal. Saying that the recognition of a legal act is illegal is a contradiction. I’m assuming, of course, that you are always referring to international law. If you are also referring to domestic law, than it may make sense – for example it would be illegal for Serbia under Serbian law to recognize the UDI, even though it would be legal for Serbia to recognize it under international law.
----------

Conclusion: Kosovo isn't independent state.
(aaayyy, 28 December 2011 14:28)

Your conclusion was not based on any argument supporting it. One thing that is beyond dispute (all parties agree, Serbia included) is that Kosovo is independent from Serbia and Serbia is not in charge in Kosovo. The only thing that is disputed is whether Kosovo is independent from UN/UNSC/UNMIK/EULEX/KFOR/EU/US/Devil. But it’s not worth arguing about it because all Albanians cared about was to be independent from Serbia. If it makes you happy, we can assume that Kosovo is not independent from UN/UNSC/UNMIK/EULEX/KFOR/EU/US/Devil.