Turkey: France committed genocide in Algeria

So What - ? -

PARIS, ANKARA -- Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has accused France of committing genocide in Algeria.

-Turkey is still guilty of Genoside on the Armenian People !.

Arn.sweden.

Turkey the petulant "European" state launches another ill thought attack.

Yes the French committed atrocites and killed many Algerians, but at no point did they ever set out to clear Algeria of Algerians. Unlike the Turks under Talaat Pasha, who has a systematic campaign to destroy any trace of the Armenians from their homeland.

I hope I am wrong but I do have a feeling that France might buckle to pressure from Turkey when that bill reaches the French senate.It happened in May 2011 and it may happen again.It also happened in US when the House of representatives did pass the resolution for the Armenian genocide only to bereversed by the Senate(on few occasions).

However, not withstanding the vote at the French Senate-I think the tide has slowly turned in favour of the Armenians all over the world.Despite the $ millions Turkey has been spending on lobbying politicians their neonazi-like campaign of denying the Armenian genocide is in the process of being defeated once and for all.

Turkish threats of passing resolutions exposing French colonial crimes have nothing to do with the events the took place in 1915.

BTW The Albanian silence on the Armenian genocide is deafening.

Despite the $ millions Turkey has been spending on lobbying politicians. (Leonidas, 23 December 2011 14:49) It should be called bribing you put some cash in their pocket for the politicians self greed morality consciousness then goes out the window. That is the sorry state of so called democracy it is pimpt out by the political class pimps to all most any one with money. So called lobbying should be criminalized any politician that takes the bribe and the briber ought go to jail.

What would you say in regard of Albanian Muslims Families saving all Jews in Albania?
[link]/
(ALB_MCSE, 23 December 2011 18:05)

That's just a fairy tale.Read below:

From the Holocaust in Greece by Carl Savich:

"Mark Mazower documented in Inside Hitler’s Greece that Cham or Chameria Albanians, Albanian Muslims who lived in the Epirus region of Greece, had collobarated with Nazi occupation forces and had taken an active role in the Holocaust in Greece. The Cham Albanians were predominantly Muslim, although a minority was Orthodox Christian. The Chameria Albanians collaborated with both Italian and German occupation forces. Several hundred Albanians from Epirus had collaborated with the Axis occupation forces. These Albanians were part of the Balli Kombetar (National Front) ultra-nationalist movement and the XILIA or Albanian National Committee which sought to create a Greater Albania by including Albanian-populated areas of Greece in a unified Greater Albania. In April, 1944, Albanian Cham Muslims participated in the round-up and expulsions of 2,000 Greek Romaniot Jews from Ioannina to the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp complex. Chamerian Albanians had also burned down Greek Orthodox villages, had committed atrocities against and murders of Orthodox Greek Christians around Paramythia, and had expelled Orthodox Greeks. The Epirus region was subdivided into four prefectures: Thesprotia, Preveza, Arta and Ioannina The Balli Kombetar demanded that all of Epirus up to Preveza should be incorporated into Albania.

Members of the Balli Kombetar (BK, National Front). The Chameria BK rounded up Greek Jews who were transported to Auschwitz.

Mark Mazower described the role of Albanian Muslim Chams during the Axis occupation in After the War Was Over

“[W]hen the Italians finally took control of mainland Greece in 1941, they found Cham activists willing to call for unification of the region with Albania. Several hundred were conscripted into the anti-communist Bal Komitare [Balli Kombetar] to act as local gendarmes. From the autumn of 1943, these armed bands took part alongside the Wehrmacht in burning Greek villages.”

The Italian fascist government placed Chameria under de facto Albanian control and under Albanian administration from 1941 to 1943. Albanian Zhemil Bey Dino was appointed the High Commissioner of Thesprotia by the Italian government. Dino had been an ambassador in the Italian fascist regime. Albanian militias were also created and recruited by the Italian forces as a proxy force to maintain the occupation. The Albanian militias were organized by the fascist and Nazi Balli Kombetar and worked for the Italian and German occupation forces. The Italian government sought to annex Chameria to Albania and to recognize the annexation de jure, as it had done with Kosovo, which was annexed outright to Albania in 1941. German opposition, however, prevented Mussolini from annexing Chameria to Albania outright, but Italy was able to maintain Chameria as a de facto part of Albania, with an Albanian administration and under the control of Albanian militias. These Albanian forces participated in the German round-up and expulsion of Greek Jews, who subsequently died in concentration camps.

Members of the Balli Kombetar (BK, National Front). The Chameria BK rounded up Greek Jews who were transported to Auschwitz.

Albanian Muslims in the Epirus region of Greece, known as Chameria in the Greater Albania lexikon, played a role in the Holocaust in Greece during World War II."

France was also a big supporter in the Rwanda genocide - it was very close and helpful to the genocidal Hutu regime.
And recently they helped the Muslims take over the southern part of the Ivory Coast from the Christians.
They have a whole lot of Blacks' blood on their hands.

...and what about the Armenians?

Man, the Turks never change.

Both Turkey and France are right, that's why France should shut up.

even if France commited a genocide it was a complete failure - muslims overbreed not only in Algeria but everywhere and this is a biggest threat to Europe

Sad that Turkey gets to blame other nations of genocide.

Oh no you didn't!

That is what France would say if France was a big fat working class African-American woman. (Yes that was a stereotype, but American TV programmes have given me that stereotype; so blame American TV not me).

Anyway getting to a more serious point, most countries have blood on their hands. Most countries have committed mass killings, the problem is whether or not we label them as "genocide". That is the issue we have.

I also think people are far too willing to use the word "genocide" as it some how emphasises their political agenda. The word "Genocide" is far too political. The same applies to the popular Balkan phrase "ethnic cleansing".

I think people play down and exaggerate events in history so that they can apply the term "Genocide" to a certain event and so that they can avoid the term "Genocide" in other historical events.

Then we have "Sacred Cows" in history which you can't contest such as the Holocaust and now in France the Armenian Genocide. How come you can't contest these, but you are more than welcome to contest the killings and deaths of Aboriginal North Americans who are almost extinct? Or you are more than welcome to contest the Irish and Ukrainian famines as genocide?

Why? Because everything is Politically motivated and politicians!

Honestly name one European, Russian, Israeli or North American politician who would actually care if someone denied the Rwandan Genocide. Not a single politician would care because it doesn't affect them politically.

I think we should forget about politics once a year and have a day in which we remember everyone who was ever killed.

RIP!

Yes there should be a 21st century Byzantine Empire aka Greater Greece!

That is the problem with people in the Balkans, they think "we used to own this land hundreds of years ago therefore we should own it today". The world doesn't work like that.

Anyway there an estimated 14-17 million Greeks all over the world and that includes people who are of only partial Greek decent.
(Ian, UK, 23 December 2011 21:44)

Who said anything about the re-creation of the Byzantine Empire or the creation of Greater Greece? What I am simply saying is our lands have been Greek for thousands of years and we're therefore their rightful owners.Muslim Albanians and Muslim Turks they should rather reduce their breeding habits rather than expanding into other people's lands.

and leonidis: you come from the only country at least in europe that denies the existence of other nationalities in your country. grece is the only country in europe and perhapos world that says grece is purely greek 100%. a 10 million country that have MORE land than 60million UK. that is already a good basis for genicide. so do your homework firstly.
(ben, 23 December 2011 17:54)

One has to see the question of minorities in a historical context.For the Greeks that question was solved with the end of the Balkan Wars.We had the exchange of populations with both Turkey and Bulgaria and that was the end of the matter.Greece does recognise the existence of a muslim minority in Thrace which is alive and prospering-unlike the Greek minorities in Albania and Turkey that have been decimated.

I can't see your point with the land Greece occupies.These lands have been Greek lands for thousands of years.If you want to question the legality of lands ask your Turkish and Albanian brothers to tell you about the lands they occupy not the Greeks.
FYI there are 25 million Greeks around the world as opposed to your 10 million living in Greece.

Albanians and Muslim Turks they should rather reduce their breeding habits rather than expanding into other people's lands.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 23:47)

They care about quantity but not the quality.

BTW The Albanian silence on the Armenian genocide is deafening.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 14:49)

Why should Albanians speak up on every issue I think we have many issues to solve in our plate. Personally I have read about it a having Armenian friends know how painful this is for them by the facts it was in same aspect as Nazi genocide.

I do not understand your fascination with Albanians every subject does not need to be twisted and turned in to speaking about Albanians.

Relax as per name i suppose you a greek dont you think you should concentrate on your own house first?

BTW The Albanian silence on the Armenian genocide is deafening.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 14:49)

Oh look! - a greek took a break from staring at the village square tree just to bring the Albanians into the quarrel of France and Turkey! That is funny!
Nobody cares what Albanians say or don't say...right?

@ engineer, is that what painters and pizza makers call themselves these days?

I can't see your point with the land Greece occupies.These lands have been Greek lands for thousands of years.If you want to question the legality of lands ask your Turkish and Albanian brothers to tell you about the lands they occupy not the Greeks.
FYI there are 25 million Greeks around the world as opposed to your 10 million living in Greece.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 21:02)

Yes there should be a 21st century Byzantine Empire aka Greater Greece!

That is the problem with people in the Balkans, they think "we used to own this land hundreds of years ago therefore we should own it today". The world doesn't work like that.

Anyway there an estimated 14-17 million Greeks all over the world and that includes people who are of only partial Greek decent.

I think we should forget about politics once a year and have a day in which we remember everyone who was ever killed.

RIP!
(Ian, UK, 23 December 2011 14:13)

one of the best posts here ever. thanks ian

and Arn: you are right too. one genocide does not cancell the other, it simoly adds to the human stupidity record.

Turks should take their reposnsability and admit the crime, pay compensation to the survived amrniens, ask for apology. the free wolrd was not shy to ask that from gemrans so why should not be asked turkey?? do we want to be racist with gemrmans but spera turks? no.

on the other hand the free world should be brave and admit her own crimes in the past. they are history now but need to remind us. be brave and go beyond the daily political opportunism.

france cannot make laws about the amrmenian genocide (which is right thing to do) but at the same time sell military technology to Russia which is commiting right now at least cultural genocide towards chechnyans or that ethnically cleansed Abkhasia form Georgians, while now france is selling mistrals to russians to be even more effective in that.

if we want to be coherent then let's push the criteria up.

and leonidis: you come from the only country at least in europe that denies the existence of other nationalities in your country. grece is the only country in europe and perhapos world that says grece is purely greek 100%. a 10 million country that have MORE land than 60million UK. that is already a good basis for genicide. so do your homework firstly.

@Leonidas
Why would Albanians take side with Turkey on the genocide against Armenians?
Let me guess….. I think Albania’s 70% of Muslim population is influencing your opinion in regard of Genocide.
 
The only “Deafening” in here is your sad pathetic Sarcasm.
 
PS:
What would you say in regard of Albanian Muslims Families saving all Jews in Albania?
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/22/exhibit-albanian-muslims-saved-jews-from-nazis/

Do you read Leonidas people? He says that Greece has no minority. And imagine that Greece is in Balkan. Very funny! Now as you know that neighbors know each other very well. Yes Leonidas tell you one fact the exchange of people with Turkey. But Leonidas didn’t tell you the total truth. One part of them was Albanian Muslim expelled with force by their homes in today Greece. And one part of them was Muslim Greeks. Because for Greeks the national identity is equal with religious identity. In this society of Orthodox asphyxia how can a person declare himself not Greek? This is the reason that thousands of SlavoMacedonian in Greek Macedonia don’t exist for Greek state, this is the reason that thousands of Arvanitas (Albanian Orthodox of Greece) don’t exist for Greek state, this is the reason that the Genocide versus thousands of Cham Albanians Muslim don’t exist for Greek state, these is the reason that the orthodox Albanian in South Albanian they want to be declared Greek. If I have to choose between a Greek Orthodox fanatic and a Muslim fanatic I don’t know who is worst.

t is not their fault that the bed capabilities of the Greek brood is so sloppy.
(John, 24 December 2011 01:16)

This has nothing to do with brood.It's called family planning which Muslims know nothing about.

Leonidas! This kind of story that you tell we in Albania name “story with partisan”. Are that kinds of story when 1 partisan kill 100 Nazis. When we discus the thing we have to discus for tendencies, not for sporadic cases. Is internationally known fact that in all Europe, only in the land of Albanians increase the number of Jews some times during WWII. In all Europe including Greece decrease the number Jews. But we don’t want to discuss more with you this, cause for this act Jews are gratefully to us. There are Albanians Quisling that has done crimes against, Jews, Greeks, Albanians? Yes, as are Greek quisling, Serb quisling, Croats quisling etc, etc.
Albanian never judged an entire ethnic group for the crimes of individual of these groups. We prove this when we save all Italian soldiers from Nazis after Italian capitulation in WWII. Strange eeee? Albanians such e barbaric and majority Muslim race has done such human things? Ask Italian and Jews dear. Why you don’t tell here that was also Cham partisans. What happen with their family? What happen with all neutral Chams, what happen with old people, woman and child? Collective punishment eeeee? This are Ottoman and Byzantine methods.
(dori tirana, 24 December 2011 09:35)

This is not my story but recorded events by international historians who have researched those events.Albanians historically have always sided with the enemies of the Greeks.With the collapse of the Ottoman empire the Albanian populations that served the Ottomans chose to move to Turkey in fear of reprisals from the Christian populations that suffered 400 years of slavery.There are more Albanians living in Turkey than in Albania.

During World War II again the Albanians sided initially with the Italian fascists and then with Hitler against the populations of Serbia and Greece.Cham Albanian gangs used to raid Greek villages in Epirus and Thessaly and indulge themselves in rapes and killings with impunity.The Chams got away very lightly by being expelled.Justice would've been served only if they were put against the wall.

The funny thing is that Chams descendants are demanding to be granted Greek nationality after all the crimes they committed against the Greeks.

And you believe that Albanian killed all the Jews based on Carl Savich story that writes at some Serbian newspaper instead?
You really have a way of thinking. I want waste a minute of my time any longer.

Kala Xristougenna/Mary Christmas to all.
(Alb_MSCE/MCI, 24 December 2011 15:06)

Let me clarify that this is not Carl Savich's research but Mark Mazower's one.Google his name and you'll find out about his pedigree.

They care about quantity but not the quality.
(szemi, 24 December 2011 00:47)

You are right.How many times have we seen Mullah Erdogan bragging about the fact that Turkey has doubled its population in the last fifty years?
Then he's got the nerve to complain against the EU for treating Turkey unfairly by not allowing visa-free movement for Turks within the EU.

Who said anything about the re-creation of the Byzantine Empire or the creation of Greater Greece? What I am simply saying is our lands have been Greek for thousands of years and we're therefore their rightful owners.Muslim Albanians and Muslim Turks they should rather reduce their breeding habits rather than expanding into other people's lands.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 23:47)

Ridiculous. Was this a bed time story when you were a little boy? No wonder Greeks are so nationalist. I'd love to see how your analysis would stand up in a court.

Ever heard of population migration? It is a natural thing, get used to it. It always has happened, it does happen and it always will happen. That is why the Ancient Greek Empire stretched as far as today's Egypt, India and China. People like to move around. Not to mention they like to rule other people. Had this of happened 1,000 years later it would have been classed as colonisation but because the Ancient Greeks did it, it must be viewed upon more romantically.

Ridiculous. Was this a bed time story when you were a little boy? No wonder Greeks are so nationalist. I'd love to see how your analysis would stand up in a court.

Ever heard of population migration? It is a natural thing, get used to it. It always has happened, it does happen and it always will happen. That is why the Ancient Greek Empire stretched as far as today's Egypt, India and China. People like to move around. Not to mention they like to rule other people. Had this of happened 1,000 years later it would have been classed as colonisation but because the Ancient Greeks did it, it must be viewed upon more romantically.
(Ian, UK, 24 December 2011 12:11)

Greeks are nationalists?They didn't send their armies 12000 miles to claim Argentine islands,they didn't send their armies to slaughter the people of Iraq, Afganistan and Libya.Not to mention your crimes against Black Africa.

As a pseudo-Albanian historian you seem to confuse the reasons as to why the Greek Empire reached the Indian sub-continent.The Greek Empire was not about conquest but it was about dealing once and for all with the Persian attacks on the Greek states.Certainly after the death of Alexander the Great his successors had a different agenda and this is not the place to expand on it.

Leonidas! This kind of story that you tell we in Albania name “story with partisan”. Are that kinds of story when 1 partisan kill 100 Nazis. When we discus the thing we have to discus for tendencies, not for sporadic cases. Is internationally known fact that in all Europe, only in the land of Albanians increase the number of Jews some times during WWII. In all Europe including Greece decrease the number Jews. But we don’t want to discuss more with you this, cause for this act Jews are gratefully to us. There are Albanians Quisling that has done crimes against, Jews, Greeks, Albanians? Yes, as are Greek quisling, Serb quisling, Croats quisling etc, etc.
Albanian never judged an entire ethnic group for the crimes of individual of these groups. We prove this when we save all Italian soldiers from Nazis after Italian capitulation in WWII. Strange eeee? Albanians such e barbaric and majority Muslim race has done such human things? Ask Italian and Jews dear. Why you don’t tell here that was also Cham partisans. What happen with their family? What happen with all neutral Chams, what happen with old people, woman and child? Collective punishment eeeee? This are Ottoman and Byzantine methods.

Carl Savich who?

So the Jews that made this documentary with real Jew Families saved by real Muslim Albanian Families shown at CNN it’s a lie or as you call it a fairytale.

And you believe that Albanian killed all the Jews based on Carl Savich story that writes at some Serbian newspaper instead?
You really have a way of thinking. I want waste a minute of my time any longer.

Kala Xristougenna/Mary Christmas to all.

As a pseudo-Albanian historian you seem to confuse the reasons as to why the Greek Empire reached the Indian sub-continent.The Greek Empire was not about conquest but it was about dealing once and for all with the Persian attacks on the Greek states.Certainly after the death of Alexander the Great his successors had a different agenda and this is not the place to expand on it.
(Leonidas, 24 December 2011 13:46)

Yes like I said, Greeks like to romanticise their own history to avoid the word "colonisation", then they like to point the figure and accuse others of colonisation even though they arguably invented/ pioneered colonisation. Well we have a term for that, people who live in glass houses shouldn't through stones.

Yeh Persians were attacking you... hmmm maybe us evil British should have adopted that philosophy as an excuse for colonisation and wrote about it in our history books. Oh wait we did... but you Greeks who so openly point the finger don't!

"That is the problem with people in the Balkans, they think "we used to own this land hundreds of years ago therefore we should own it today". The world doesn't work like that. "

Not just that, but some seem to think they can gleen some sort of present-day knowledge by poring over some dusty old maps.

With the collapse of the Ottoman empire the Albanian populations that served the Ottomans chose to move to Turkey in fear of reprisals from the Christian populations that suffered 400 years of slavery. There are more Albanians living in Turkey than in Albania.

The Chams got away very lightly by being expelled.Justice would've been served only if they were put against the wall.
(Leonidas, 24 December 2011 14:21)
This two stories sound to me like the story of Serbs that 1 million KAlbanians let Kosova afraid from the NATO bombardment.
Leonidas your Greek lies has been more successful than Serb lies till now. But the similarity of your lies make the world understands the truth.

The funny thing is that Chams descendants are demanding to be granted Greek nationality after all the crimes they committed against the Greeks.
(Leonidas, 24 December 2011 14:21)
I know that you see this funny thing but I’m happy that you write this, because what you say is the only funny thing in all this story. To the Greek Leonidas people, seems funny that one people ask the properties of his father, because for that are interested Chams, not for Greek passport. And when Chams get their properties Leonidas will be poorer. Now he is using those properties for gratis.

Muslim Albanians and Muslim Turks they should rather reduce their breeding habits rather than expanding into other people's lands.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 23:47)

It is not their fault that the bed capabilities of the Greek brood is so sloppy.

Both Turkey and France are right, that's why France should shut up.

Oh no you didn't!

That is what France would say if France was a big fat working class African-American woman. (Yes that was a stereotype, but American TV programmes have given me that stereotype; so blame American TV not me).

Anyway getting to a more serious point, most countries have blood on their hands. Most countries have committed mass killings, the problem is whether or not we label them as "genocide". That is the issue we have.

I also think people are far too willing to use the word "genocide" as it some how emphasises their political agenda. The word "Genocide" is far too political. The same applies to the popular Balkan phrase "ethnic cleansing".

I think people play down and exaggerate events in history so that they can apply the term "Genocide" to a certain event and so that they can avoid the term "Genocide" in other historical events.

Then we have "Sacred Cows" in history which you can't contest such as the Holocaust and now in France the Armenian Genocide. How come you can't contest these, but you are more than welcome to contest the killings and deaths of Aboriginal North Americans who are almost extinct? Or you are more than welcome to contest the Irish and Ukrainian famines as genocide?

Why? Because everything is Politically motivated and politicians!

Honestly name one European, Russian, Israeli or North American politician who would actually care if someone denied the Rwandan Genocide. Not a single politician would care because it doesn't affect them politically.

I think we should forget about politics once a year and have a day in which we remember everyone who was ever killed.

RIP!

BTW The Albanian silence on the Armenian genocide is deafening.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 14:49)

Why should Albanians speak up on every issue I think we have many issues to solve in our plate. Personally I have read about it a having Armenian friends know how painful this is for them by the facts it was in same aspect as Nazi genocide.

I do not understand your fascination with Albanians every subject does not need to be twisted and turned in to speaking about Albanians.

Relax as per name i suppose you a greek dont you think you should concentrate on your own house first?

BTW The Albanian silence on the Armenian genocide is deafening.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 14:49)

Oh look! - a greek took a break from staring at the village square tree just to bring the Albanians into the quarrel of France and Turkey! That is funny!
Nobody cares what Albanians say or don't say...right?

even if France commited a genocide it was a complete failure - muslims overbreed not only in Algeria but everywhere and this is a biggest threat to Europe

I think we should forget about politics once a year and have a day in which we remember everyone who was ever killed.

RIP!
(Ian, UK, 23 December 2011 14:13)

one of the best posts here ever. thanks ian

and Arn: you are right too. one genocide does not cancell the other, it simoly adds to the human stupidity record.

Turks should take their reposnsability and admit the crime, pay compensation to the survived amrniens, ask for apology. the free wolrd was not shy to ask that from gemrans so why should not be asked turkey?? do we want to be racist with gemrmans but spera turks? no.

on the other hand the free world should be brave and admit her own crimes in the past. they are history now but need to remind us. be brave and go beyond the daily political opportunism.

france cannot make laws about the amrmenian genocide (which is right thing to do) but at the same time sell military technology to Russia which is commiting right now at least cultural genocide towards chechnyans or that ethnically cleansed Abkhasia form Georgians, while now france is selling mistrals to russians to be even more effective in that.

if we want to be coherent then let's push the criteria up.

and leonidis: you come from the only country at least in europe that denies the existence of other nationalities in your country. grece is the only country in europe and perhapos world that says grece is purely greek 100%. a 10 million country that have MORE land than 60million UK. that is already a good basis for genicide. so do your homework firstly.

@Leonidas
Why would Albanians take side with Turkey on the genocide against Armenians?
Let me guess….. I think Albania’s 70% of Muslim population is influencing your opinion in regard of Genocide.
 
The only “Deafening” in here is your sad pathetic Sarcasm.
 
PS:
What would you say in regard of Albanian Muslims Families saving all Jews in Albania?
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/22/exhibit-albanian-muslims-saved-jews-from-nazis/

Do you read Leonidas people? He says that Greece has no minority. And imagine that Greece is in Balkan. Very funny! Now as you know that neighbors know each other very well. Yes Leonidas tell you one fact the exchange of people with Turkey. But Leonidas didn’t tell you the total truth. One part of them was Albanian Muslim expelled with force by their homes in today Greece. And one part of them was Muslim Greeks. Because for Greeks the national identity is equal with religious identity. In this society of Orthodox asphyxia how can a person declare himself not Greek? This is the reason that thousands of SlavoMacedonian in Greek Macedonia don’t exist for Greek state, this is the reason that thousands of Arvanitas (Albanian Orthodox of Greece) don’t exist for Greek state, this is the reason that the Genocide versus thousands of Cham Albanians Muslim don’t exist for Greek state, these is the reason that the orthodox Albanian in South Albanian they want to be declared Greek. If I have to choose between a Greek Orthodox fanatic and a Muslim fanatic I don’t know who is worst.

So What - ? -

PARIS, ANKARA -- Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has accused France of committing genocide in Algeria.

-Turkey is still guilty of Genoside on the Armenian People !.

Arn.sweden.

I hope I am wrong but I do have a feeling that France might buckle to pressure from Turkey when that bill reaches the French senate.It happened in May 2011 and it may happen again.It also happened in US when the House of representatives did pass the resolution for the Armenian genocide only to bereversed by the Senate(on few occasions).

However, not withstanding the vote at the French Senate-I think the tide has slowly turned in favour of the Armenians all over the world.Despite the $ millions Turkey has been spending on lobbying politicians their neonazi-like campaign of denying the Armenian genocide is in the process of being defeated once and for all.

Turkish threats of passing resolutions exposing French colonial crimes have nothing to do with the events the took place in 1915.

BTW The Albanian silence on the Armenian genocide is deafening.

France was also a big supporter in the Rwanda genocide - it was very close and helpful to the genocidal Hutu regime.
And recently they helped the Muslims take over the southern part of the Ivory Coast from the Christians.
They have a whole lot of Blacks' blood on their hands.

I can't see your point with the land Greece occupies.These lands have been Greek lands for thousands of years.If you want to question the legality of lands ask your Turkish and Albanian brothers to tell you about the lands they occupy not the Greeks.
FYI there are 25 million Greeks around the world as opposed to your 10 million living in Greece.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 21:02)

Yes there should be a 21st century Byzantine Empire aka Greater Greece!

That is the problem with people in the Balkans, they think "we used to own this land hundreds of years ago therefore we should own it today". The world doesn't work like that.

Anyway there an estimated 14-17 million Greeks all over the world and that includes people who are of only partial Greek decent.

"That is the problem with people in the Balkans, they think "we used to own this land hundreds of years ago therefore we should own it today". The world doesn't work like that. "

Not just that, but some seem to think they can gleen some sort of present-day knowledge by poring over some dusty old maps.

Leonidas! This kind of story that you tell we in Albania name “story with partisan”. Are that kinds of story when 1 partisan kill 100 Nazis. When we discus the thing we have to discus for tendencies, not for sporadic cases. Is internationally known fact that in all Europe, only in the land of Albanians increase the number of Jews some times during WWII. In all Europe including Greece decrease the number Jews. But we don’t want to discuss more with you this, cause for this act Jews are gratefully to us. There are Albanians Quisling that has done crimes against, Jews, Greeks, Albanians? Yes, as are Greek quisling, Serb quisling, Croats quisling etc, etc.
Albanian never judged an entire ethnic group for the crimes of individual of these groups. We prove this when we save all Italian soldiers from Nazis after Italian capitulation in WWII. Strange eeee? Albanians such e barbaric and majority Muslim race has done such human things? Ask Italian and Jews dear. Why you don’t tell here that was also Cham partisans. What happen with their family? What happen with all neutral Chams, what happen with old people, woman and child? Collective punishment eeeee? This are Ottoman and Byzantine methods.

As a pseudo-Albanian historian you seem to confuse the reasons as to why the Greek Empire reached the Indian sub-continent.The Greek Empire was not about conquest but it was about dealing once and for all with the Persian attacks on the Greek states.Certainly after the death of Alexander the Great his successors had a different agenda and this is not the place to expand on it.
(Leonidas, 24 December 2011 13:46)

Yes like I said, Greeks like to romanticise their own history to avoid the word "colonisation", then they like to point the figure and accuse others of colonisation even though they arguably invented/ pioneered colonisation. Well we have a term for that, people who live in glass houses shouldn't through stones.

Yeh Persians were attacking you... hmmm maybe us evil British should have adopted that philosophy as an excuse for colonisation and wrote about it in our history books. Oh wait we did... but you Greeks who so openly point the finger don't!

and leonidis: you come from the only country at least in europe that denies the existence of other nationalities in your country. grece is the only country in europe and perhapos world that says grece is purely greek 100%. a 10 million country that have MORE land than 60million UK. that is already a good basis for genicide. so do your homework firstly.
(ben, 23 December 2011 17:54)

One has to see the question of minorities in a historical context.For the Greeks that question was solved with the end of the Balkan Wars.We had the exchange of populations with both Turkey and Bulgaria and that was the end of the matter.Greece does recognise the existence of a muslim minority in Thrace which is alive and prospering-unlike the Greek minorities in Albania and Turkey that have been decimated.

I can't see your point with the land Greece occupies.These lands have been Greek lands for thousands of years.If you want to question the legality of lands ask your Turkish and Albanian brothers to tell you about the lands they occupy not the Greeks.
FYI there are 25 million Greeks around the world as opposed to your 10 million living in Greece.

Yes there should be a 21st century Byzantine Empire aka Greater Greece!

That is the problem with people in the Balkans, they think "we used to own this land hundreds of years ago therefore we should own it today". The world doesn't work like that.

Anyway there an estimated 14-17 million Greeks all over the world and that includes people who are of only partial Greek decent.
(Ian, UK, 23 December 2011 21:44)

Who said anything about the re-creation of the Byzantine Empire or the creation of Greater Greece? What I am simply saying is our lands have been Greek for thousands of years and we're therefore their rightful owners.Muslim Albanians and Muslim Turks they should rather reduce their breeding habits rather than expanding into other people's lands.

Turkey the petulant "European" state launches another ill thought attack.

Yes the French committed atrocites and killed many Algerians, but at no point did they ever set out to clear Algeria of Algerians. Unlike the Turks under Talaat Pasha, who has a systematic campaign to destroy any trace of the Armenians from their homeland.

@ engineer, is that what painters and pizza makers call themselves these days?

What would you say in regard of Albanian Muslims Families saving all Jews in Albania?
[link]/
(ALB_MCSE, 23 December 2011 18:05)

That's just a fairy tale.Read below:

From the Holocaust in Greece by Carl Savich:

"Mark Mazower documented in Inside Hitler’s Greece that Cham or Chameria Albanians, Albanian Muslims who lived in the Epirus region of Greece, had collobarated with Nazi occupation forces and had taken an active role in the Holocaust in Greece. The Cham Albanians were predominantly Muslim, although a minority was Orthodox Christian. The Chameria Albanians collaborated with both Italian and German occupation forces. Several hundred Albanians from Epirus had collaborated with the Axis occupation forces. These Albanians were part of the Balli Kombetar (National Front) ultra-nationalist movement and the XILIA or Albanian National Committee which sought to create a Greater Albania by including Albanian-populated areas of Greece in a unified Greater Albania. In April, 1944, Albanian Cham Muslims participated in the round-up and expulsions of 2,000 Greek Romaniot Jews from Ioannina to the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp complex. Chamerian Albanians had also burned down Greek Orthodox villages, had committed atrocities against and murders of Orthodox Greek Christians around Paramythia, and had expelled Orthodox Greeks. The Epirus region was subdivided into four prefectures: Thesprotia, Preveza, Arta and Ioannina The Balli Kombetar demanded that all of Epirus up to Preveza should be incorporated into Albania.

Members of the Balli Kombetar (BK, National Front). The Chameria BK rounded up Greek Jews who were transported to Auschwitz.

Mark Mazower described the role of Albanian Muslim Chams during the Axis occupation in After the War Was Over

“[W]hen the Italians finally took control of mainland Greece in 1941, they found Cham activists willing to call for unification of the region with Albania. Several hundred were conscripted into the anti-communist Bal Komitare [Balli Kombetar] to act as local gendarmes. From the autumn of 1943, these armed bands took part alongside the Wehrmacht in burning Greek villages.”

The Italian fascist government placed Chameria under de facto Albanian control and under Albanian administration from 1941 to 1943. Albanian Zhemil Bey Dino was appointed the High Commissioner of Thesprotia by the Italian government. Dino had been an ambassador in the Italian fascist regime. Albanian militias were also created and recruited by the Italian forces as a proxy force to maintain the occupation. The Albanian militias were organized by the fascist and Nazi Balli Kombetar and worked for the Italian and German occupation forces. The Italian government sought to annex Chameria to Albania and to recognize the annexation de jure, as it had done with Kosovo, which was annexed outright to Albania in 1941. German opposition, however, prevented Mussolini from annexing Chameria to Albania outright, but Italy was able to maintain Chameria as a de facto part of Albania, with an Albanian administration and under the control of Albanian militias. These Albanian forces participated in the German round-up and expulsion of Greek Jews, who subsequently died in concentration camps.

Members of the Balli Kombetar (BK, National Front). The Chameria BK rounded up Greek Jews who were transported to Auschwitz.

Albanian Muslims in the Epirus region of Greece, known as Chameria in the Greater Albania lexikon, played a role in the Holocaust in Greece during World War II."

Muslim Albanians and Muslim Turks they should rather reduce their breeding habits rather than expanding into other people's lands.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 23:47)

It is not their fault that the bed capabilities of the Greek brood is so sloppy.

Despite the $ millions Turkey has been spending on lobbying politicians. (Leonidas, 23 December 2011 14:49) It should be called bribing you put some cash in their pocket for the politicians self greed morality consciousness then goes out the window. That is the sorry state of so called democracy it is pimpt out by the political class pimps to all most any one with money. So called lobbying should be criminalized any politician that takes the bribe and the briber ought go to jail.

...and what about the Armenians?

Man, the Turks never change.

t is not their fault that the bed capabilities of the Greek brood is so sloppy.
(John, 24 December 2011 01:16)

This has nothing to do with brood.It's called family planning which Muslims know nothing about.

Carl Savich who?

So the Jews that made this documentary with real Jew Families saved by real Muslim Albanian Families shown at CNN it’s a lie or as you call it a fairytale.

And you believe that Albanian killed all the Jews based on Carl Savich story that writes at some Serbian newspaper instead?
You really have a way of thinking. I want waste a minute of my time any longer.

Kala Xristougenna/Mary Christmas to all.

With the collapse of the Ottoman empire the Albanian populations that served the Ottomans chose to move to Turkey in fear of reprisals from the Christian populations that suffered 400 years of slavery. There are more Albanians living in Turkey than in Albania.

The Chams got away very lightly by being expelled.Justice would've been served only if they were put against the wall.
(Leonidas, 24 December 2011 14:21)
This two stories sound to me like the story of Serbs that 1 million KAlbanians let Kosova afraid from the NATO bombardment.
Leonidas your Greek lies has been more successful than Serb lies till now. But the similarity of your lies make the world understands the truth.

The funny thing is that Chams descendants are demanding to be granted Greek nationality after all the crimes they committed against the Greeks.
(Leonidas, 24 December 2011 14:21)
I know that you see this funny thing but I’m happy that you write this, because what you say is the only funny thing in all this story. To the Greek Leonidas people, seems funny that one people ask the properties of his father, because for that are interested Chams, not for Greek passport. And when Chams get their properties Leonidas will be poorer. Now he is using those properties for gratis.

Sad that Turkey gets to blame other nations of genocide.

Albanians and Muslim Turks they should rather reduce their breeding habits rather than expanding into other people's lands.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 23:47)

They care about quantity but not the quality.

Who said anything about the re-creation of the Byzantine Empire or the creation of Greater Greece? What I am simply saying is our lands have been Greek for thousands of years and we're therefore their rightful owners.Muslim Albanians and Muslim Turks they should rather reduce their breeding habits rather than expanding into other people's lands.
(Leonidas, 23 December 2011 23:47)

Ridiculous. Was this a bed time story when you were a little boy? No wonder Greeks are so nationalist. I'd love to see how your analysis would stand up in a court.

Ever heard of population migration? It is a natural thing, get used to it. It always has happened, it does happen and it always will happen. That is why the Ancient Greek Empire stretched as far as today's Egypt, India and China. People like to move around. Not to mention they like to rule other people. Had this of happened 1,000 years later it would have been classed as colonisation but because the Ancient Greeks did it, it must be viewed upon more romantically.

Ridiculous. Was this a bed time story when you were a little boy? No wonder Greeks are so nationalist. I'd love to see how your analysis would stand up in a court.

Ever heard of population migration? It is a natural thing, get used to it. It always has happened, it does happen and it always will happen. That is why the Ancient Greek Empire stretched as far as today's Egypt, India and China. People like to move around. Not to mention they like to rule other people. Had this of happened 1,000 years later it would have been classed as colonisation but because the Ancient Greeks did it, it must be viewed upon more romantically.
(Ian, UK, 24 December 2011 12:11)

Greeks are nationalists?They didn't send their armies 12000 miles to claim Argentine islands,they didn't send their armies to slaughter the people of Iraq, Afganistan and Libya.Not to mention your crimes against Black Africa.

As a pseudo-Albanian historian you seem to confuse the reasons as to why the Greek Empire reached the Indian sub-continent.The Greek Empire was not about conquest but it was about dealing once and for all with the Persian attacks on the Greek states.Certainly after the death of Alexander the Great his successors had a different agenda and this is not the place to expand on it.

They care about quantity but not the quality.
(szemi, 24 December 2011 00:47)

You are right.How many times have we seen Mullah Erdogan bragging about the fact that Turkey has doubled its population in the last fifty years?
Then he's got the nerve to complain against the EU for treating Turkey unfairly by not allowing visa-free movement for Turks within the EU.

Leonidas! This kind of story that you tell we in Albania name “story with partisan”. Are that kinds of story when 1 partisan kill 100 Nazis. When we discus the thing we have to discus for tendencies, not for sporadic cases. Is internationally known fact that in all Europe, only in the land of Albanians increase the number of Jews some times during WWII. In all Europe including Greece decrease the number Jews. But we don’t want to discuss more with you this, cause for this act Jews are gratefully to us. There are Albanians Quisling that has done crimes against, Jews, Greeks, Albanians? Yes, as are Greek quisling, Serb quisling, Croats quisling etc, etc.
Albanian never judged an entire ethnic group for the crimes of individual of these groups. We prove this when we save all Italian soldiers from Nazis after Italian capitulation in WWII. Strange eeee? Albanians such e barbaric and majority Muslim race has done such human things? Ask Italian and Jews dear. Why you don’t tell here that was also Cham partisans. What happen with their family? What happen with all neutral Chams, what happen with old people, woman and child? Collective punishment eeeee? This are Ottoman and Byzantine methods.
(dori tirana, 24 December 2011 09:35)

This is not my story but recorded events by international historians who have researched those events.Albanians historically have always sided with the enemies of the Greeks.With the collapse of the Ottoman empire the Albanian populations that served the Ottomans chose to move to Turkey in fear of reprisals from the Christian populations that suffered 400 years of slavery.There are more Albanians living in Turkey than in Albania.

During World War II again the Albanians sided initially with the Italian fascists and then with Hitler against the populations of Serbia and Greece.Cham Albanian gangs used to raid Greek villages in Epirus and Thessaly and indulge themselves in rapes and killings with impunity.The Chams got away very lightly by being expelled.Justice would've been served only if they were put against the wall.

The funny thing is that Chams descendants are demanding to be granted Greek nationality after all the crimes they committed against the Greeks.

And you believe that Albanian killed all the Jews based on Carl Savich story that writes at some Serbian newspaper instead?
You really have a way of thinking. I want waste a minute of my time any longer.

Kala Xristougenna/Mary Christmas to all.
(Alb_MSCE/MCI, 24 December 2011 15:06)

Let me clarify that this is not Carl Savich's research but Mark Mazower's one.Google his name and you'll find out about his pedigree.