Turkey decides to cut official contacts with France

Turkey had close to 100 years to face its demons on the Armenian genocide and have failed to do so.Instead mullah Erdogan is trying again his cheap political brickmanship which is based on the Turkish psyche and declaring to the world that the Armenian genocide never happened.

The Armenian genocide was not just about physical extermination, it's about the erasing of culture, memory and history and any sign of previous civilizations in today’s Turkey.Anyone visiting Eastern Turkey today and looking to find the Armenian & Coptic churches in the area, as well as the other landmarks will see that virtually all Armenian churches have now either being knocked down or are completely ruins.Turkish officials claim they "fell down", or became "dangerous structures that required immediate demolition".

Mullah Erdogan should grow up and instead of threatening other countries with reprisals for recognising the Armenian genocide he should publicly admit that Turkey committed crimes in the past against other races that he shouldn't be proud of.Had Turkey faced its past few years ago she wouldn't have committed its heinous crimes against the Greek Cypriots and the Kurds.

That should help your EU bid! That just gave Europe a great excuse why your never going to get into the EU.

This is the result of treating Turkey like an equal. Give them an inch and they will take a mile.
Who gives a rats a… if the Turks are upset. Turkey is a third world state who has been led to believe it’s something of value by the United States of Dimwits and they actually believe it all.

My Great Grandfather survived the Armenian Genocide, though most of his family did not. I know full well that the organised destruction that the Turks dished out to the Armenians was Genocide and that the survivors were driven hundreds of miles away, never to return.

What amazes me most is the fact that the Turks are so inflammatory and defensive about it - they seem incapable of debating it like adults. Their actions make their guilt look even more clear.

The denial festers like a sore for Turkey and the current leadership echoes the evil, power crazed Young Turks and their justification of the slaughter by the warped laws of Islam.

The Ottomaniacs really know how to keep it classy.

"That should help your EU bid! That just gave Europe a great excuse why your never going to get into the EU.
(robert1899, 23 December 2011 01:33)"

Turkey became an EU candidate way back in 1999 -- and has been stuck in limbo ever since. In fact, both EU biggies France and Germany have already said that Turkey should not be a member. There are important lessons here for Serbia that hopefully Tadic is finally paying attention to if his government's recent comments are anything to go by.

Dori, the Chams were chased out of Greece because they joined forces with the Nazi's during WWII, and committed atrocities amongst the locals - just like their Albanian kin in Kosovo did for Hitler. Not quite the same as what Leonides is saying.

Hi Leonidas! I see that you are wellinformed for the genocide that has done others. Do you know when Greece will accept the genocide that has done versus Cham Albanians in today northern Greece. It doesn't happen in 1915, but after WWII.
(dori tirana, 23 December 2011 08:40

Albanians in their short and inglorious history have always sided with fascist occupiers being the Ottomans or the Italians or the Germans.With regard to Chams-read Mark Mowzer's book "Salonica"-when the Italians took control of mainaland Greece the Albanian Zhemi Bey Dino was appointed the High Commissioner of Epirus and he immediately organised the Chams militias to maintain the occupation.The Chams under the leadership of nazi Balli Kombetar rouned up all the Greek Jews living in Epirus
and send them to concentration camps where they subsequently perished.Furthermore the Chams unleashed their terror against the Greeks by burning houses and killing Greek villagers suspected of being members of the resistance.

The Chams war criminal got away very lightly by being expelled.Nazi collaborators were executed in many countries in Europe.The post-war Greek government made a big mistake with regard to Chams.They should have tried them for their crimes and execute them.

Also take back to Anatolia those half a million Turks living in France Abi Erdogan.

The Mongolian Spirit and Personality dont denie itself !!!.

Arn.Sweden.

Hi Leonidas! I see that you are wellinformed for the genocide that has done others. Do you know when Greece will accept the genocide that has done versus Cham Albanians in today northern Greece. It doesn't happen in 1915, but after WWII.
(dori tirana, 23 December 2011 08:40)

Comparing the two events tells a lot about your moral level and ignorance.First of all the number of victims is very different secondly the reason. armenians are a descent brave and highly inteligent nation and what happened to them is a great loss for mankind.They are excellent scientists,artists and doctors a well educated and hardworking people as opposed to albanians who are rather famous for their criminal activity.You turkomongols have always cried when some of you were killed but never cared when you eliminated entire nations.Shame on you and your moral sense.

Leonidas inglorious story of Albanians! If, was not Ali Pash Tepelena and Arvanitas and also the generous support of Russia your land will be named till today Turkey and not Greece. But now you only name of the land have Greek, because you are a mix of races that your Orthodox state has obligated all to declare themselves Greek. I hope that the real Greeks people and those brave Arvanitas remember the true story of their families and Greece.
(dori tirana, 23 December 2011 13:11)

It seems to me you're a pretty confused person.You're trying to make a case with regards to Chams and I gave you an answer.Instead of responding to my answer you come back with Ali Pasha of Tepelena-his name alone indicates that he was an Ottoman war lord and criminal-and you suggest that if it wasn't for him we'll still be under Ottoman rule.In fact Ali Pasha and his Albanian army were serving his Turkish masters and did commit so many atrocities against the Greek population of Epirus and Thessaly.As fas as Arvanites are concerned do not confuse with Albanians. It's very insulting for Christian Orthodox Arbanites to be identified with Albanians.

Turkey is rejecting the term "genocide" and considers the number of killed Armenians is "inflated", saying also that there were victims on both sides.

Sounds very similar to the way of thinking of some people in Bosnia (and Serbia) :)

Comparing the two events tells a lot about your moral level and ignorance. First of all the number of victims is very different secondly the reason. armenians are a descent brave and highly inteligent nation and what happened to them is a great loss for mankind.They are excellent scientists,artists and doctors a well educated and hardworking people as opposed to albanians who are rather famous for their criminal activity. You turkomongols have always cried when some of you were killed but never cared when you eliminated entire nations.Shame on you and your moral sense.
(szemi, 23 December 2011 10:48)
Szemi I’ll repost your post as response, I don’t know were are you from and I don’t know how Turkomongols are, cause I’m Albanian (Albanian has never attack others for ethnic reasons) Read your post with a lot of hatred versus others to understand what I’m saying.

Turkey became an EU candidate way back in 1999 -- and has been stuck in limbo ever since. In fact, both EU biggies France and Germany have already said that Turkey should not be a member. There are important lessons here for Serbia that hopefully Tadic is finally paying attention to if his government's recent comments are anything to go by.
(lowe, 23 December 2011 02:36)
First of all, Turkey is not an European country. The E in EU stands for European, to remind you. Second, the limbo state is the result of Turkeys refusal to accept an independent Cyprus as an EU member, for example regarding ship traffic. Many chapters of the EU pre-accession contracts haven't been implemented (especially regarding human rights, freedom of media and religion and similar things. Turkeys refusual to admit the genocide is only a minor problem) .

If you want to compare and pay attention to some important lesson for Serbia, better look at Slovenia, Poland, Czech Republic ... and their pathway into the EU (better don't look at Romania and Bulgaria :-)

Leonidas you are a confused mind and with a schematic radical Orthodox mentality that don’t make you understand that what is bad for an Greek, Armenian, Orthodox, Catholic is also bad for an Albanian, Slavo Macedonian, Turk and Muslim. Double standard is usual thinking of such minds like yours. I know that you prefer to call Albanian and Arvanitas two different identities and till know you are successful to this. Ali Pasha and lot of Albanian were in the Ottoman army like a lot of Greek and Greek pasha was. But you can not deny the fact that Greek Liberation Movement was organized in the territory of Ali Pasha and with his permission. I know that you have to deny everything glorious of Albanians, that to confirm the inglorious short story of Albanians. Gjergj Kastrioti the ridiculous Greek nationalists pretend is Jorgos Kastriotas. Don’t you think this is funny? Leonidas Albanians everywhere (except Arvanitas in Greece) are free now. Albanians are speaking and the truth is coming out. Be patient.

Hi Leonidas! I see that you are wellinformed for the genocide that has done others. Do you know when Greece will accept the genocide that has done versus Cham Albanians in today northern Greece. It doesn't happen in 1915, but after WWII.

Dori, the Chams were chased out of Greece because they joined forces with the Nazi's during WWII, and committed atrocities amongst the locals - just like their Albanian kin in Kosovo did for Hitler. Not quite the same as what Leonides is saying.
(winston, 23 December 2011 11:03)
Winston Chams Albanians in Greece and Albanian in Kosova are systematically discriminated since they enter in borders of State of Greece and State of Serbia and at that time Nazi doesn’t exist. The final expulsion of Chams after WWII was only the last act. Normally is always a reason to discriminate old people, woman and childes when they are Albanians. Two new free nations Greece and Serbia act versus the respective minority worst than Ottoman. Greece is the only state in the world that denies in nowadays the minorities. Only this fact is enough that Greece doesn’t tell for moral to the others.

Leonidas inglorious story of Albanians! If, was not Ali Pash Tepelena and Arvanitas and also the generous support of Russia your land will be named till today Turkey and not Greece. But now you only name of the land have Greek, because you are a mix of races that your Orthodox state has obligated all to declare themselves Greek. I hope that the real Greeks people and those brave Arvanitas remember the true story of their families and Greece.

“First of all, Turkey is not an European country. The E in EU stands for European, to remind you. Second, the limbo state is the result of Turkeys refusal to accept an independent Cyprus as an EU member, for example regarding ship traffic. Many chapters of the EU pre-accession contracts haven't been implemented (especially regarding human rights, freedom of media and religion and similar things. Turkeys refusual to admit the genocide is only a minor problem) .

If you want to compare and pay attention to some important lesson for Serbia, better look at Slovenia, Poland, Czech Republic ... and their pathway into the EU (better don't look at Romania and Bulgaria :-)
(Analyst, 23 December 2011 12:11)”

Most of Turkey is in Asia Minor except for the Istanbul area which is in Europe. Whether Turkey is European or not does not detract from the fact that she was granted EU candidature in 1999 and she belongs to European sports associations (eg. Being in Europe’s zone for the World Cup tournaments). So if you are that obsessed about Turkey being non-European, the correct people to air your grievances to are the EU, FIFA, etc and not me!

The important lesson for Serbia from Turkey’s experience to me does not go into the specifics (ie. Specific issues like Cyprus, Slovenia etc). My view was more basic – if the EU can keep one country in limbo for 12 years (whatever the reason), they can do the same to Serbia. Hence, whatever arm-and-leg concessions that Serbia has to make to get that EU candidature can in the end be for absolutely nothing tangible in return if you take Turkey’s experience as an example.

So the half a million Turks living in France will have to say "No Comment" if the subject gets brought into conversation?

I truly believe the Armenian genocide happened, I would never deny it. I think it was a terrible crime and we should remember those who were killed.

However I am opposed to making it a crime to deny it. The same applies to the Holocaust which I also believed happened and I wouldn't deny that either. I believe in freedom of speech 100%. People should have the right to say whatever they like and believe whatever they like. I think denying a genocide with the deliberate intention of causing offence should be illegal, but not simply denying a genocide.

As a Historian I believe you should be able to argue whatever you want as long as you can back it up with evidence. I'm opposed to having "Sacred Cows" in history which you're not allowed to contest. That completely goes against historiography.

RIP all Armenians who died!

Hi Leonidas! I see that you are wellinformed for the genocide that has done others. Do you know when Greece will accept the genocide that has done versus Cham Albanians in today northern Greece. It doesn't happen in 1915, but after WWII.

Comparing the two events tells a lot about your moral level and ignorance. First of all the number of victims is very different secondly the reason. armenians are a descent brave and highly inteligent nation and what happened to them is a great loss for mankind.They are excellent scientists,artists and doctors a well educated and hardworking people as opposed to albanians who are rather famous for their criminal activity. You turkomongols have always cried when some of you were killed but never cared when you eliminated entire nations.Shame on you and your moral sense.
(szemi, 23 December 2011 10:48)
Szemi I’ll repost your post as response, I don’t know were are you from and I don’t know how Turkomongols are, cause I’m Albanian (Albanian has never attack others for ethnic reasons) Read your post with a lot of hatred versus others to understand what I’m saying.

Dori, the Chams were chased out of Greece because they joined forces with the Nazi's during WWII, and committed atrocities amongst the locals - just like their Albanian kin in Kosovo did for Hitler. Not quite the same as what Leonides is saying.
(winston, 23 December 2011 11:03)
Winston Chams Albanians in Greece and Albanian in Kosova are systematically discriminated since they enter in borders of State of Greece and State of Serbia and at that time Nazi doesn’t exist. The final expulsion of Chams after WWII was only the last act. Normally is always a reason to discriminate old people, woman and childes when they are Albanians. Two new free nations Greece and Serbia act versus the respective minority worst than Ottoman. Greece is the only state in the world that denies in nowadays the minorities. Only this fact is enough that Greece doesn’t tell for moral to the others.

Leonidas you are a confused mind and with a schematic radical Orthodox mentality that don’t make you understand that what is bad for an Greek, Armenian, Orthodox, Catholic is also bad for an Albanian, Slavo Macedonian, Turk and Muslim. Double standard is usual thinking of such minds like yours. I know that you prefer to call Albanian and Arvanitas two different identities and till know you are successful to this. Ali Pasha and lot of Albanian were in the Ottoman army like a lot of Greek and Greek pasha was. But you can not deny the fact that Greek Liberation Movement was organized in the territory of Ali Pasha and with his permission. I know that you have to deny everything glorious of Albanians, that to confirm the inglorious short story of Albanians. Gjergj Kastrioti the ridiculous Greek nationalists pretend is Jorgos Kastriotas. Don’t you think this is funny? Leonidas Albanians everywhere (except Arvanitas in Greece) are free now. Albanians are speaking and the truth is coming out. Be patient.

Leonidas inglorious story of Albanians! If, was not Ali Pash Tepelena and Arvanitas and also the generous support of Russia your land will be named till today Turkey and not Greece. But now you only name of the land have Greek, because you are a mix of races that your Orthodox state has obligated all to declare themselves Greek. I hope that the real Greeks people and those brave Arvanitas remember the true story of their families and Greece.
(dori tirana, 23 December 2011 13:11)

It seems to me you're a pretty confused person.You're trying to make a case with regards to Chams and I gave you an answer.Instead of responding to my answer you come back with Ali Pasha of Tepelena-his name alone indicates that he was an Ottoman war lord and criminal-and you suggest that if it wasn't for him we'll still be under Ottoman rule.In fact Ali Pasha and his Albanian army were serving his Turkish masters and did commit so many atrocities against the Greek population of Epirus and Thessaly.As fas as Arvanites are concerned do not confuse with Albanians. It's very insulting for Christian Orthodox Arbanites to be identified with Albanians.

Hi Leonidas! I see that you are wellinformed for the genocide that has done others. Do you know when Greece will accept the genocide that has done versus Cham Albanians in today northern Greece. It doesn't happen in 1915, but after WWII.
(dori tirana, 23 December 2011 08:40)

Comparing the two events tells a lot about your moral level and ignorance.First of all the number of victims is very different secondly the reason. armenians are a descent brave and highly inteligent nation and what happened to them is a great loss for mankind.They are excellent scientists,artists and doctors a well educated and hardworking people as opposed to albanians who are rather famous for their criminal activity.You turkomongols have always cried when some of you were killed but never cared when you eliminated entire nations.Shame on you and your moral sense.

Leonidas inglorious story of Albanians! If, was not Ali Pash Tepelena and Arvanitas and also the generous support of Russia your land will be named till today Turkey and not Greece. But now you only name of the land have Greek, because you are a mix of races that your Orthodox state has obligated all to declare themselves Greek. I hope that the real Greeks people and those brave Arvanitas remember the true story of their families and Greece.

That should help your EU bid! That just gave Europe a great excuse why your never going to get into the EU.

Turkey is rejecting the term "genocide" and considers the number of killed Armenians is "inflated", saying also that there were victims on both sides.

Sounds very similar to the way of thinking of some people in Bosnia (and Serbia) :)

Turkey had close to 100 years to face its demons on the Armenian genocide and have failed to do so.Instead mullah Erdogan is trying again his cheap political brickmanship which is based on the Turkish psyche and declaring to the world that the Armenian genocide never happened.

The Armenian genocide was not just about physical extermination, it's about the erasing of culture, memory and history and any sign of previous civilizations in today’s Turkey.Anyone visiting Eastern Turkey today and looking to find the Armenian & Coptic churches in the area, as well as the other landmarks will see that virtually all Armenian churches have now either being knocked down or are completely ruins.Turkish officials claim they "fell down", or became "dangerous structures that required immediate demolition".

Mullah Erdogan should grow up and instead of threatening other countries with reprisals for recognising the Armenian genocide he should publicly admit that Turkey committed crimes in the past against other races that he shouldn't be proud of.Had Turkey faced its past few years ago she wouldn't have committed its heinous crimes against the Greek Cypriots and the Kurds.

Turkey became an EU candidate way back in 1999 -- and has been stuck in limbo ever since. In fact, both EU biggies France and Germany have already said that Turkey should not be a member. There are important lessons here for Serbia that hopefully Tadic is finally paying attention to if his government's recent comments are anything to go by.
(lowe, 23 December 2011 02:36)
First of all, Turkey is not an European country. The E in EU stands for European, to remind you. Second, the limbo state is the result of Turkeys refusal to accept an independent Cyprus as an EU member, for example regarding ship traffic. Many chapters of the EU pre-accession contracts haven't been implemented (especially regarding human rights, freedom of media and religion and similar things. Turkeys refusual to admit the genocide is only a minor problem) .

If you want to compare and pay attention to some important lesson for Serbia, better look at Slovenia, Poland, Czech Republic ... and their pathway into the EU (better don't look at Romania and Bulgaria :-)

Also take back to Anatolia those half a million Turks living in France Abi Erdogan.

"That should help your EU bid! That just gave Europe a great excuse why your never going to get into the EU.
(robert1899, 23 December 2011 01:33)"

Turkey became an EU candidate way back in 1999 -- and has been stuck in limbo ever since. In fact, both EU biggies France and Germany have already said that Turkey should not be a member. There are important lessons here for Serbia that hopefully Tadic is finally paying attention to if his government's recent comments are anything to go by.

This is the result of treating Turkey like an equal. Give them an inch and they will take a mile.
Who gives a rats a… if the Turks are upset. Turkey is a third world state who has been led to believe it’s something of value by the United States of Dimwits and they actually believe it all.

The Mongolian Spirit and Personality dont denie itself !!!.

Arn.Sweden.

The Ottomaniacs really know how to keep it classy.

My Great Grandfather survived the Armenian Genocide, though most of his family did not. I know full well that the organised destruction that the Turks dished out to the Armenians was Genocide and that the survivors were driven hundreds of miles away, never to return.

What amazes me most is the fact that the Turks are so inflammatory and defensive about it - they seem incapable of debating it like adults. Their actions make their guilt look even more clear.

The denial festers like a sore for Turkey and the current leadership echoes the evil, power crazed Young Turks and their justification of the slaughter by the warped laws of Islam.

Dori, the Chams were chased out of Greece because they joined forces with the Nazi's during WWII, and committed atrocities amongst the locals - just like their Albanian kin in Kosovo did for Hitler. Not quite the same as what Leonides is saying.

Hi Leonidas! I see that you are wellinformed for the genocide that has done others. Do you know when Greece will accept the genocide that has done versus Cham Albanians in today northern Greece. It doesn't happen in 1915, but after WWII.
(dori tirana, 23 December 2011 08:40

Albanians in their short and inglorious history have always sided with fascist occupiers being the Ottomans or the Italians or the Germans.With regard to Chams-read Mark Mowzer's book "Salonica"-when the Italians took control of mainaland Greece the Albanian Zhemi Bey Dino was appointed the High Commissioner of Epirus and he immediately organised the Chams militias to maintain the occupation.The Chams under the leadership of nazi Balli Kombetar rouned up all the Greek Jews living in Epirus
and send them to concentration camps where they subsequently perished.Furthermore the Chams unleashed their terror against the Greeks by burning houses and killing Greek villagers suspected of being members of the resistance.

The Chams war criminal got away very lightly by being expelled.Nazi collaborators were executed in many countries in Europe.The post-war Greek government made a big mistake with regard to Chams.They should have tried them for their crimes and execute them.

So the half a million Turks living in France will have to say "No Comment" if the subject gets brought into conversation?

I truly believe the Armenian genocide happened, I would never deny it. I think it was a terrible crime and we should remember those who were killed.

However I am opposed to making it a crime to deny it. The same applies to the Holocaust which I also believed happened and I wouldn't deny that either. I believe in freedom of speech 100%. People should have the right to say whatever they like and believe whatever they like. I think denying a genocide with the deliberate intention of causing offence should be illegal, but not simply denying a genocide.

As a Historian I believe you should be able to argue whatever you want as long as you can back it up with evidence. I'm opposed to having "Sacred Cows" in history which you're not allowed to contest. That completely goes against historiography.

RIP all Armenians who died!

“First of all, Turkey is not an European country. The E in EU stands for European, to remind you. Second, the limbo state is the result of Turkeys refusal to accept an independent Cyprus as an EU member, for example regarding ship traffic. Many chapters of the EU pre-accession contracts haven't been implemented (especially regarding human rights, freedom of media and religion and similar things. Turkeys refusual to admit the genocide is only a minor problem) .

If you want to compare and pay attention to some important lesson for Serbia, better look at Slovenia, Poland, Czech Republic ... and their pathway into the EU (better don't look at Romania and Bulgaria :-)
(Analyst, 23 December 2011 12:11)”

Most of Turkey is in Asia Minor except for the Istanbul area which is in Europe. Whether Turkey is European or not does not detract from the fact that she was granted EU candidature in 1999 and she belongs to European sports associations (eg. Being in Europe’s zone for the World Cup tournaments). So if you are that obsessed about Turkey being non-European, the correct people to air your grievances to are the EU, FIFA, etc and not me!

The important lesson for Serbia from Turkey’s experience to me does not go into the specifics (ie. Specific issues like Cyprus, Slovenia etc). My view was more basic – if the EU can keep one country in limbo for 12 years (whatever the reason), they can do the same to Serbia. Hence, whatever arm-and-leg concessions that Serbia has to make to get that EU candidature can in the end be for absolutely nothing tangible in return if you take Turkey’s experience as an example.