37

Tuesday, 20.12.2011.

13:07

"Bosnia moving toward Sharia law"

RS President Milorad Dodik says the leader of Bosnia's Muslims, Mufti Mustafa Cerić, was "the main political figure among Bosniaks (Muslims)".

Izvor: Veèernje novosti

"Bosnia moving toward Sharia law" IMAGE SOURCE
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37 Komentari

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Bosnjak

pre 12 godina

Bosnian Muslims have always been identified as Bosniaks. It wasn’t until the creation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia that Bosnian Muslims stopped being referred to as Bosniaks in an attempt by the Serbs and Croats to undermine the Bosniaks identity— similar to what many of you are doing now with your narrow-minded comments.

As far as Dodik’s comment is concerned, BiH is not moving towards becoming a sharia state. We do have vehabis in Bosnia, but so does the U.K, U.S., Germany, France, and etc. In a truly democratic state everyone should be able to follow whatever religion they want to. I think BiH should be more concerned with the fact that there are over 45,000 registered cetniks in the country—who in my opinion pose a much greater threat to the stability of the country.

Julio Lins

pre 12 godina

Yes, that´s good. Western media, including B92, NATO and US championed bosnian cause and favoured Bosnia against Serbia. Was Western blood shed to implement another shariah state?

Freddy

pre 12 godina

" A Strong Yugoslavia,you must have a weak Serbia". Folks you have to admit, if the West did not meddle in Yugoslavia internal affairs and allowed Yugoslavia to evolve into a free market,democratic open society it would be richer and more prosperous collectively. Today we have a independent states struggling, fighting, arguing and disfunctional. I bet most long for the old Yugoslavia..but a changed new one with out all that war, come on admit it..God Bless and Happy new Year!

Bob

pre 12 godina

Leo

You are out of line. Do not misquote me. I did not say only atheists should be in positions of power.

You are flaming. Flaming is when bloggers get too angry (I explain in case you were not aware of that).

There are two earlier postings from me. I suggest that you read both of them if you have any intention of trying to understand what I am arguing about being a 'happy islamophobe' - I think it is explained quite clearly in the first of the postings.

Further, I am not stupid or rude - but you most certainly are writing in a style that I consider abusive and inappropriate.

I am pleased that I have successfully challenged assumptions about belief, and will happily continue to do so.

Belief in god is not a given - in fact the evidence points very strongly to the view that there has been no divine intervention across the vast eons of time and that religion is very much an invention of humans of a way of dealing with their own ignorance.

There is also a severe point here in that the world is very messed up by people's overly strong belief. I am very tolerant of belief - but I also think that belief should never go unchallenged.

What is so special about the 'Serbian' orthodox church as opposed to any other? The church of Christ is supposed to be universal. I thought that Christ came for all men on the basis of love and forgiveness - not to give people a justification for their national causes. I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong.

Leo

pre 12 godina

Bob, your comments were stupid and intolerant, stating inter alia, only atheists should be in positions of power. While we might welcome resistance to "sharia" law , I'm not sure what a "happy Islamophobe " means other than an expression in your case of a general and RUDE intolerance of any believer. If you are older than me, you are an old fool. Sorry to pop your self-inflated balloon. If you want to avoid the crossfire, make less absurd statements about what type of society you believe is ideal. Got it?

sj

pre 12 godina

When the Islamization of the Balkans started, the Serbian Church took a hard-line against this and basically said that no-one who took another religion could consider themselves a Serb.

Maybe you didn't know this.

Any-way. It has nothing to do with being "liberal", it's simply a historical fact.

Against this fact, it's pretty ridiculous to call muslims "against any other culture or religion", when that's the position that the Serbian Church took - a position that one could argue lead to the eventual "bosniak" identity centuries later
(Danilo, 20 December 2011 17:51)

This is a great example of mixing 20 century ideas with earlier periods. This concept of being a Serb, Englishman/British subject or American regardless of religion or ethnicity is only a late 20 century phenomena.
You only have to go back 40 years in Italy where if you were a Muslim you were considered alien to their society and they never allowed Muslims to settle there anyway. In fact they did not allow black Africans to settle in Italy and that is a fact.
The term Bosniak came with the communists not the Serbian Orthodox Church just like they allowed Albanian refugees from Albania to settle in Kosovo.

Ignorance

pre 12 godina

Looking at the comments in this article its clear why people like Dodik will be in power forever. He feeds idiots exactly the nonsense they want to hear. Good luck with that Serbs how has this political game worked out for you so far? poverty, unemployment, undereducation and state sponsored genocide against the people he blames as aggressors heh poor idiots..

Bill Romine

pre 12 godina

I want to know why there are less than 5000 Christian Serbs in Sarajevo today???
Sarajevo is a Islamic city that used to have close to half a million Christian Serbs - wow what a victory for Europe and the humanatarians!!!
And 78 Serbs in Pristina hahaha omg this is the most perverted thing I have ever heard...oh wait that is the Serbian fault, does that accusation remind you of anything?

Does it remind you of what the Nazi Croatians, Nazi Germans and Nazi Bosnian Muslims + Albanians said about the Jews- "it was their fault - they deserved it."

Bob

pre 12 godina

Leo

There is no need to be rude. I am probably older than you, and I am certainly better at choosing analogies. Diversionary comments about NKorea do nothing to counter my contribution about my resistance to religious bigotry being translated into impositional law or into justification for nasty nationalist causes.

Belief in god should be a personal decision and should not be the basis of politics - be it in religious states or anti-religious communist dictatorships.

A healthy separation between churches and states is the model that best serves the personal freedoms of all.

Bugar Skoplje

pre 12 godina

"Which muslim state? When did Albanians ever fought against Serbia in the name of islam? There is no one here that favors a war on Islam in Balkans more than me, but your statement is purely rubish".
(Denis, 20 December 2011 21:51)
In past 10 yr Albo build over 200 mosque in Kosovo and Metohia also destroy 300 Serb Churches for you this is not religion fought. Tell your albo mafia your comment and you will be finish with your writing for ever.

Milovan

pre 12 godina

"and those who are Muslim should find their way back to their true identity. They should join the civilized world, where democracy and rule of law protect individual freedoms".
(Freddy, 20 December 2011 22:36)
If they do this, all Meddle East will be jump over night.

Djedo

pre 12 godina

"As an example though, all credit to Emir Kusturica, born into a family who pre-WWII were muslim, he came to the realisation of his true identity and returned to it, by being baptised into the Serbian Orthodox Church."
(SCP UK, 20 December 2011 23:26)
Perfect example nothing wrong!
hm..that will be one nation again, like before?

szemi

pre 12 godina

It's amazing how brainwashed you are, and you actually think you're smart, which is the biggest joke of all.
(Dragan, 20 December 2011 21:06)

Maybe he is simply the misunderstood genius and if we took a tennis raquet and started hitting the ball randomly and continued this activity for hours repeating the mantra EU there are good chances that after a while we would get into a special frame of mind and understand this guy.

trizo

pre 12 godina

haha the day that Sharia law exists in Bosnia is the day that a holy war occurs..

fundamentalism isn't really tolerated in the Balkans

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

I would reply to Danilo and his constant anti-Serbian views but I think Dragan cleared it up for me.

As an example though, all credit to Emir Kusturica, born into a family who pre-WWII were muslim, he came to the realisation of his true identity and returned to it, by being baptised into the Serbian Orthodox Church.

Leo

pre 12 godina

Bob the atheist longs for more atheists in his "state". Bob, when you grow up and leave the house go to North Korea. Nothing but atheists. Good grief. The Serb Orthodox Church miraculously survived Islam, Communism, NATO , Hilary and Bill Clinton and it will survive the "Bobs" of this temporal world. Merry Christmas.

Freddy

pre 12 godina

How interesting observation the fact that the Muslims of Bosnia were at one time fellow brothers, Christians. When the Ottomans came and established their laws many of these Christians converted to Islam and from that moment on created a division or sub group based on religion only. Islam is alien to this region and those who are Muslim should find their way back to their true identity. They should join the civilized world, where democracy and rule of law protect individual freedoms.

Leo

pre 12 godina

I don't think Dodik is at all objecting to Muslims having their "sharia" law as long as it applies only to them. In that sense, he is quite tolerant. He is objecting to the imposition of "sharia" on the Serbs and Croats. And in that sense, he is quite tolerant. Dodik simply makes sense and is tolerant and his enemies are bigoted and irrational...as usual.

Denis

pre 12 godina

Link from Etiopia is is identical with reality in Kosovo and Metohia.( 300 churches burn out) Thanks for that. Also Your country will be have same story and situation in near future like Serbian. Today west supported and created muslim state in Serb land, but door is open for Sharia law in the Balkan. I'm positive with my opinion that rest of the Europe will be cover very fast with this law.
(petar, 20 December 2011 18:44)

Which muslim state? When did Albanians ever fought against Serbia in the name of islam? There is no one here that favors a war on Islam in Balkans more than me, but your statement is purely rubish. In fact many orthodox nations are closer to the islamic mentality and lifestyle in that the church plays a big part in state affairs, either formaly or informally, and the religion is part of your identity.

Albanians generally are and traditionally have been radically a-religious or agnostics or even atheist, which puts them years ahead of your church run societies.

Bob

pre 12 godina

Danilo ... And other posters.

The 'Serbian' orthodox church uses the name of Serbia and likes to think that somehow it is a symbol of Serbia. In practice it is not a setter of public policy or necessarily strongly supported by all the citizens. Fortunately there are lots of atheists in Serbia too who think that religious people are exactly the wrong people to act as policy makers or implied representatives of the state.

Religions - of any type - must be tolerated within the system (and I do mean tolerated and not accepted or believed) but they are not and must not be at the heart of the state in Bosnia or Serbia.

Bob (the happily islamophobic apostate representative of freedom to be an atheist in all states)

Dragan

pre 12 godina

Against this fact, it's pretty ridiculous to call muslims "against any other culture or religion", when that's the position that the Serbian Church took - a position that one could argue lead to the eventual "bosniak" identity centuries later
(Danilo, 20 December 2011 17:51)

Wrong again, as usual. Tito invented the nationality of 'Bosnian' in order to further reduce the influence of Serbs in Yugoslavia. He also made Kosovo and Vojvodina autonomous, gave the name 'Macedonia' to the southern province - even though Macedonians are Greeks. All these things he did to weaken Serbia. Try doing a bit of research for a change - otherwise stick to data centers.
It's amazing how brainwashed you are, and you actually think you're smart, which is the biggest joke of all.

Benny Bläck

pre 12 godina

"Arn sweden" "pippi långstrump" or whatever:


Did you studied SFI "svenska för invandrare" (swedish for immigrants) when you arrived in Sweden, how many months ago? Judging from your lousy English you should still be years from getting a decent way of living here so i guess you read Jan Guillou´s "Arn", from where you got your futile fantasies about being a Swede, in your native tongue. Not much of a help now was it?

I for one, being a REAL Swede with no connection what so ever to the Balkans, besides i agree with the Serbian cause, would advice you to to take a more humble approach and not to be ashamed of your origin, if you are a "Zoran", then call yourself "Zoran". That would at least help you a bit further than your fellow Balkanites who already got their free ticket back, no matter what they called themselves.
All the best/ Benny B

petar

pre 12 godina

Link from Etiopia is is identical with reality in Kosovo and Metohia.( 300 churches burn out) Thanks for that. Also Your country will be have same story and situation in near future like Serbian. Today west supported and created muslim state in Serb land, but door is open for Sharia law in the Balkan. I'm positive with my opinion that rest of the Europe will be cover very fast with this law.

Danilo

pre 12 godina

SPCUK.

When the Islamization of the Balkans started, the Serbian Church took a hard-line against this and basically said that no-one who took another religion could consider themselves a Serb.

Maybe you didn't know this.

Any-way. It has nothing to do with being "liberal", it's simply a historical fact.

Against this fact, it's pretty ridiculous to call muslims "against any other culture or religion", when that's the position that the Serbian Church took - a position that one could argue lead to the eventual "bosniak" identity centuries later

Denis

pre 12 godina

As an Albanian that comes from a nonpracticing muslim family I would vote today to ban islam from entire Balkans if possible,and raise all themosques to the ground. I think Islam is by far the greatest enemy of my people and the entire region for that matter.

Bob

pre 12 godina

I am happily islamophobic. Speaking as an athiest who thinks it is all total nonsense, I am very resistant to people who choose to subscribe to a creed of religious bigotry trying to impose law on anyone.

There is nothing wrong in being (so called) 'islamophobic' - in fact there is just cause.

Being resistant to Islam should not justify violence. This should be an intellectual issue.

Islam can have a place in the world because there are decent people who choose to believe it - but it should not be allowed to go unchallenged, and the idea of an 'Islamic state' or the imposition of its peculiar legal ideas is an affront to clear thinking and to common sense.

Roger7

pre 12 godina

It was the politicians in the former Yugoslavia who gave the "double identity" of Muslim.

Muslim, in the ethnic sense, was permitted in census taking and included in the Constitution of the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

@Danilo

You really need to put your liberal crap to one side for a minute and think about what you are saying. The fact that muslims arn't recognized as Serbs is largely to do with them, I challenge to find me a decent number of muslims either from Sandzak or Bosnia who declare themselves as Serbs rather than "bosniaks", ever since the americans made up this identity for them they couldn't wait to use it. The majority of them want nothing to do with Serbs (unless they can use them for their own benefit). You always come out with some sort of rubbish without thinking it through.

Andrei

pre 12 godina

Islam Is incompatable with western democracy. Slowing Europeans are waking up to threat of Islam. I blame the EU policies and politicians for all of this frictions. Sadly this leads to people like Anders Behring Breivik.

zman

pre 12 godina

I thought it was because IZtebegovic wanted a pure Islamic state.. Looks like his dream is coming true .. Let's all sit and read the "Islamic declaration" by Izetbegovic to learn what fascism and racism and religious intolerance is all about.. Why west supports these crazy religious extremists is beyond me.. From Saudi Arabia to Bosnia and they are installing Sharia law in Libya... pathetic

Arn.Sweden.

pre 12 godina

Yes bevere of Islam !!!.

About Islam !!!.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/10372#.TvCUaFaBpAw

http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmissionxp.webblogg.se%2F&langpair=sv|en

http://www.torahblogg.net/32628552

Arn.Sweden.

djetic

pre 12 godina

Sharia law europe use today to punish Serb on serbian land. Bosna & kosovo is just experimental place for them, but in less tahn 50 yr all west Europe will be face this law in own house.

Danilo

pre 12 godina

"yet their culture is completely intolerant to any other religion or culture"

That's funny.... isn't part of the reason "Muslim" exists as an identity in the balkans because the Serbian Church announced that you can't be a muslim and a Serb.

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

The muslims do nothing but drone on about islamophobia, yet their culture is completely intolerant to any other religion or culture. Even in the UK the muslims constantly moan about their rights, however if a non-muslim was to take a trip to a country where sharia law is in place then they would face an awful amount of discrimination and punishment for not following the islamic code. Yet while they live in Christian lands they demand their right to implement their culture on others, how sick and hypocritical.

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

The muslims do nothing but drone on about islamophobia, yet their culture is completely intolerant to any other religion or culture. Even in the UK the muslims constantly moan about their rights, however if a non-muslim was to take a trip to a country where sharia law is in place then they would face an awful amount of discrimination and punishment for not following the islamic code. Yet while they live in Christian lands they demand their right to implement their culture on others, how sick and hypocritical.

djetic

pre 12 godina

Sharia law europe use today to punish Serb on serbian land. Bosna & kosovo is just experimental place for them, but in less tahn 50 yr all west Europe will be face this law in own house.

zman

pre 12 godina

I thought it was because IZtebegovic wanted a pure Islamic state.. Looks like his dream is coming true .. Let's all sit and read the "Islamic declaration" by Izetbegovic to learn what fascism and racism and religious intolerance is all about.. Why west supports these crazy religious extremists is beyond me.. From Saudi Arabia to Bosnia and they are installing Sharia law in Libya... pathetic

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

@Danilo

You really need to put your liberal crap to one side for a minute and think about what you are saying. The fact that muslims arn't recognized as Serbs is largely to do with them, I challenge to find me a decent number of muslims either from Sandzak or Bosnia who declare themselves as Serbs rather than "bosniaks", ever since the americans made up this identity for them they couldn't wait to use it. The majority of them want nothing to do with Serbs (unless they can use them for their own benefit). You always come out with some sort of rubbish without thinking it through.

Roger7

pre 12 godina

It was the politicians in the former Yugoslavia who gave the "double identity" of Muslim.

Muslim, in the ethnic sense, was permitted in census taking and included in the Constitution of the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

Denis

pre 12 godina

As an Albanian that comes from a nonpracticing muslim family I would vote today to ban islam from entire Balkans if possible,and raise all themosques to the ground. I think Islam is by far the greatest enemy of my people and the entire region for that matter.

Dragan

pre 12 godina

Against this fact, it's pretty ridiculous to call muslims "against any other culture or religion", when that's the position that the Serbian Church took - a position that one could argue lead to the eventual "bosniak" identity centuries later
(Danilo, 20 December 2011 17:51)

Wrong again, as usual. Tito invented the nationality of 'Bosnian' in order to further reduce the influence of Serbs in Yugoslavia. He also made Kosovo and Vojvodina autonomous, gave the name 'Macedonia' to the southern province - even though Macedonians are Greeks. All these things he did to weaken Serbia. Try doing a bit of research for a change - otherwise stick to data centers.
It's amazing how brainwashed you are, and you actually think you're smart, which is the biggest joke of all.

Bob

pre 12 godina

I am happily islamophobic. Speaking as an athiest who thinks it is all total nonsense, I am very resistant to people who choose to subscribe to a creed of religious bigotry trying to impose law on anyone.

There is nothing wrong in being (so called) 'islamophobic' - in fact there is just cause.

Being resistant to Islam should not justify violence. This should be an intellectual issue.

Islam can have a place in the world because there are decent people who choose to believe it - but it should not be allowed to go unchallenged, and the idea of an 'Islamic state' or the imposition of its peculiar legal ideas is an affront to clear thinking and to common sense.

Andrei

pre 12 godina

Islam Is incompatable with western democracy. Slowing Europeans are waking up to threat of Islam. I blame the EU policies and politicians for all of this frictions. Sadly this leads to people like Anders Behring Breivik.

petar

pre 12 godina

Link from Etiopia is is identical with reality in Kosovo and Metohia.( 300 churches burn out) Thanks for that. Also Your country will be have same story and situation in near future like Serbian. Today west supported and created muslim state in Serb land, but door is open for Sharia law in the Balkan. I'm positive with my opinion that rest of the Europe will be cover very fast with this law.

Leo

pre 12 godina

I don't think Dodik is at all objecting to Muslims having their "sharia" law as long as it applies only to them. In that sense, he is quite tolerant. He is objecting to the imposition of "sharia" on the Serbs and Croats. And in that sense, he is quite tolerant. Dodik simply makes sense and is tolerant and his enemies are bigoted and irrational...as usual.

Leo

pre 12 godina

Bob the atheist longs for more atheists in his "state". Bob, when you grow up and leave the house go to North Korea. Nothing but atheists. Good grief. The Serb Orthodox Church miraculously survived Islam, Communism, NATO , Hilary and Bill Clinton and it will survive the "Bobs" of this temporal world. Merry Christmas.

Arn.Sweden.

pre 12 godina

Yes bevere of Islam !!!.

About Islam !!!.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/10372#.TvCUaFaBpAw

http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmissionxp.webblogg.se%2F&langpair=sv|en

http://www.torahblogg.net/32628552

Arn.Sweden.

Freddy

pre 12 godina

How interesting observation the fact that the Muslims of Bosnia were at one time fellow brothers, Christians. When the Ottomans came and established their laws many of these Christians converted to Islam and from that moment on created a division or sub group based on religion only. Islam is alien to this region and those who are Muslim should find their way back to their true identity. They should join the civilized world, where democracy and rule of law protect individual freedoms.

Danilo

pre 12 godina

"yet their culture is completely intolerant to any other religion or culture"

That's funny.... isn't part of the reason "Muslim" exists as an identity in the balkans because the Serbian Church announced that you can't be a muslim and a Serb.

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

I would reply to Danilo and his constant anti-Serbian views but I think Dragan cleared it up for me.

As an example though, all credit to Emir Kusturica, born into a family who pre-WWII were muslim, he came to the realisation of his true identity and returned to it, by being baptised into the Serbian Orthodox Church.

Bill Romine

pre 12 godina

I want to know why there are less than 5000 Christian Serbs in Sarajevo today???
Sarajevo is a Islamic city that used to have close to half a million Christian Serbs - wow what a victory for Europe and the humanatarians!!!
And 78 Serbs in Pristina hahaha omg this is the most perverted thing I have ever heard...oh wait that is the Serbian fault, does that accusation remind you of anything?

Does it remind you of what the Nazi Croatians, Nazi Germans and Nazi Bosnian Muslims + Albanians said about the Jews- "it was their fault - they deserved it."

Benny Bläck

pre 12 godina

"Arn sweden" "pippi långstrump" or whatever:


Did you studied SFI "svenska för invandrare" (swedish for immigrants) when you arrived in Sweden, how many months ago? Judging from your lousy English you should still be years from getting a decent way of living here so i guess you read Jan Guillou´s "Arn", from where you got your futile fantasies about being a Swede, in your native tongue. Not much of a help now was it?

I for one, being a REAL Swede with no connection what so ever to the Balkans, besides i agree with the Serbian cause, would advice you to to take a more humble approach and not to be ashamed of your origin, if you are a "Zoran", then call yourself "Zoran". That would at least help you a bit further than your fellow Balkanites who already got their free ticket back, no matter what they called themselves.
All the best/ Benny B

Ignorance

pre 12 godina

Looking at the comments in this article its clear why people like Dodik will be in power forever. He feeds idiots exactly the nonsense they want to hear. Good luck with that Serbs how has this political game worked out for you so far? poverty, unemployment, undereducation and state sponsored genocide against the people he blames as aggressors heh poor idiots..

Bob

pre 12 godina

Danilo ... And other posters.

The 'Serbian' orthodox church uses the name of Serbia and likes to think that somehow it is a symbol of Serbia. In practice it is not a setter of public policy or necessarily strongly supported by all the citizens. Fortunately there are lots of atheists in Serbia too who think that religious people are exactly the wrong people to act as policy makers or implied representatives of the state.

Religions - of any type - must be tolerated within the system (and I do mean tolerated and not accepted or believed) but they are not and must not be at the heart of the state in Bosnia or Serbia.

Bob (the happily islamophobic apostate representative of freedom to be an atheist in all states)

Bob

pre 12 godina

Leo

There is no need to be rude. I am probably older than you, and I am certainly better at choosing analogies. Diversionary comments about NKorea do nothing to counter my contribution about my resistance to religious bigotry being translated into impositional law or into justification for nasty nationalist causes.

Belief in god should be a personal decision and should not be the basis of politics - be it in religious states or anti-religious communist dictatorships.

A healthy separation between churches and states is the model that best serves the personal freedoms of all.

Bugar Skoplje

pre 12 godina

"Which muslim state? When did Albanians ever fought against Serbia in the name of islam? There is no one here that favors a war on Islam in Balkans more than me, but your statement is purely rubish".
(Denis, 20 December 2011 21:51)
In past 10 yr Albo build over 200 mosque in Kosovo and Metohia also destroy 300 Serb Churches for you this is not religion fought. Tell your albo mafia your comment and you will be finish with your writing for ever.

Milovan

pre 12 godina

"and those who are Muslim should find their way back to their true identity. They should join the civilized world, where democracy and rule of law protect individual freedoms".
(Freddy, 20 December 2011 22:36)
If they do this, all Meddle East will be jump over night.

sj

pre 12 godina

When the Islamization of the Balkans started, the Serbian Church took a hard-line against this and basically said that no-one who took another religion could consider themselves a Serb.

Maybe you didn't know this.

Any-way. It has nothing to do with being "liberal", it's simply a historical fact.

Against this fact, it's pretty ridiculous to call muslims "against any other culture or religion", when that's the position that the Serbian Church took - a position that one could argue lead to the eventual "bosniak" identity centuries later
(Danilo, 20 December 2011 17:51)

This is a great example of mixing 20 century ideas with earlier periods. This concept of being a Serb, Englishman/British subject or American regardless of religion or ethnicity is only a late 20 century phenomena.
You only have to go back 40 years in Italy where if you were a Muslim you were considered alien to their society and they never allowed Muslims to settle there anyway. In fact they did not allow black Africans to settle in Italy and that is a fact.
The term Bosniak came with the communists not the Serbian Orthodox Church just like they allowed Albanian refugees from Albania to settle in Kosovo.

szemi

pre 12 godina

It's amazing how brainwashed you are, and you actually think you're smart, which is the biggest joke of all.
(Dragan, 20 December 2011 21:06)

Maybe he is simply the misunderstood genius and if we took a tennis raquet and started hitting the ball randomly and continued this activity for hours repeating the mantra EU there are good chances that after a while we would get into a special frame of mind and understand this guy.

Leo

pre 12 godina

Bob, your comments were stupid and intolerant, stating inter alia, only atheists should be in positions of power. While we might welcome resistance to "sharia" law , I'm not sure what a "happy Islamophobe " means other than an expression in your case of a general and RUDE intolerance of any believer. If you are older than me, you are an old fool. Sorry to pop your self-inflated balloon. If you want to avoid the crossfire, make less absurd statements about what type of society you believe is ideal. Got it?

Bob

pre 12 godina

Leo

You are out of line. Do not misquote me. I did not say only atheists should be in positions of power.

You are flaming. Flaming is when bloggers get too angry (I explain in case you were not aware of that).

There are two earlier postings from me. I suggest that you read both of them if you have any intention of trying to understand what I am arguing about being a 'happy islamophobe' - I think it is explained quite clearly in the first of the postings.

Further, I am not stupid or rude - but you most certainly are writing in a style that I consider abusive and inappropriate.

I am pleased that I have successfully challenged assumptions about belief, and will happily continue to do so.

Belief in god is not a given - in fact the evidence points very strongly to the view that there has been no divine intervention across the vast eons of time and that religion is very much an invention of humans of a way of dealing with their own ignorance.

There is also a severe point here in that the world is very messed up by people's overly strong belief. I am very tolerant of belief - but I also think that belief should never go unchallenged.

What is so special about the 'Serbian' orthodox church as opposed to any other? The church of Christ is supposed to be universal. I thought that Christ came for all men on the basis of love and forgiveness - not to give people a justification for their national causes. I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong.

Danilo

pre 12 godina

SPCUK.

When the Islamization of the Balkans started, the Serbian Church took a hard-line against this and basically said that no-one who took another religion could consider themselves a Serb.

Maybe you didn't know this.

Any-way. It has nothing to do with being "liberal", it's simply a historical fact.

Against this fact, it's pretty ridiculous to call muslims "against any other culture or religion", when that's the position that the Serbian Church took - a position that one could argue lead to the eventual "bosniak" identity centuries later

trizo

pre 12 godina

haha the day that Sharia law exists in Bosnia is the day that a holy war occurs..

fundamentalism isn't really tolerated in the Balkans

Djedo

pre 12 godina

"As an example though, all credit to Emir Kusturica, born into a family who pre-WWII were muslim, he came to the realisation of his true identity and returned to it, by being baptised into the Serbian Orthodox Church."
(SCP UK, 20 December 2011 23:26)
Perfect example nothing wrong!
hm..that will be one nation again, like before?

Denis

pre 12 godina

Link from Etiopia is is identical with reality in Kosovo and Metohia.( 300 churches burn out) Thanks for that. Also Your country will be have same story and situation in near future like Serbian. Today west supported and created muslim state in Serb land, but door is open for Sharia law in the Balkan. I'm positive with my opinion that rest of the Europe will be cover very fast with this law.
(petar, 20 December 2011 18:44)

Which muslim state? When did Albanians ever fought against Serbia in the name of islam? There is no one here that favors a war on Islam in Balkans more than me, but your statement is purely rubish. In fact many orthodox nations are closer to the islamic mentality and lifestyle in that the church plays a big part in state affairs, either formaly or informally, and the religion is part of your identity.

Albanians generally are and traditionally have been radically a-religious or agnostics or even atheist, which puts them years ahead of your church run societies.

Julio Lins

pre 12 godina

Yes, that´s good. Western media, including B92, NATO and US championed bosnian cause and favoured Bosnia against Serbia. Was Western blood shed to implement another shariah state?

Freddy

pre 12 godina

" A Strong Yugoslavia,you must have a weak Serbia". Folks you have to admit, if the West did not meddle in Yugoslavia internal affairs and allowed Yugoslavia to evolve into a free market,democratic open society it would be richer and more prosperous collectively. Today we have a independent states struggling, fighting, arguing and disfunctional. I bet most long for the old Yugoslavia..but a changed new one with out all that war, come on admit it..God Bless and Happy new Year!

Bosnjak

pre 12 godina

Bosnian Muslims have always been identified as Bosniaks. It wasn’t until the creation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia that Bosnian Muslims stopped being referred to as Bosniaks in an attempt by the Serbs and Croats to undermine the Bosniaks identity— similar to what many of you are doing now with your narrow-minded comments.

As far as Dodik’s comment is concerned, BiH is not moving towards becoming a sharia state. We do have vehabis in Bosnia, but so does the U.K, U.S., Germany, France, and etc. In a truly democratic state everyone should be able to follow whatever religion they want to. I think BiH should be more concerned with the fact that there are over 45,000 registered cetniks in the country—who in my opinion pose a much greater threat to the stability of the country.

Danilo

pre 12 godina

"yet their culture is completely intolerant to any other religion or culture"

That's funny.... isn't part of the reason "Muslim" exists as an identity in the balkans because the Serbian Church announced that you can't be a muslim and a Serb.

Danilo

pre 12 godina

SPCUK.

When the Islamization of the Balkans started, the Serbian Church took a hard-line against this and basically said that no-one who took another religion could consider themselves a Serb.

Maybe you didn't know this.

Any-way. It has nothing to do with being "liberal", it's simply a historical fact.

Against this fact, it's pretty ridiculous to call muslims "against any other culture or religion", when that's the position that the Serbian Church took - a position that one could argue lead to the eventual "bosniak" identity centuries later

Ignorance

pre 12 godina

Looking at the comments in this article its clear why people like Dodik will be in power forever. He feeds idiots exactly the nonsense they want to hear. Good luck with that Serbs how has this political game worked out for you so far? poverty, unemployment, undereducation and state sponsored genocide against the people he blames as aggressors heh poor idiots..

djetic

pre 12 godina

Sharia law europe use today to punish Serb on serbian land. Bosna & kosovo is just experimental place for them, but in less tahn 50 yr all west Europe will be face this law in own house.

Arn.Sweden.

pre 12 godina

Yes bevere of Islam !!!.

About Islam !!!.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/10372#.TvCUaFaBpAw

http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmissionxp.webblogg.se%2F&langpair=sv|en

http://www.torahblogg.net/32628552

Arn.Sweden.

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

@Danilo

You really need to put your liberal crap to one side for a minute and think about what you are saying. The fact that muslims arn't recognized as Serbs is largely to do with them, I challenge to find me a decent number of muslims either from Sandzak or Bosnia who declare themselves as Serbs rather than "bosniaks", ever since the americans made up this identity for them they couldn't wait to use it. The majority of them want nothing to do with Serbs (unless they can use them for their own benefit). You always come out with some sort of rubbish without thinking it through.

Denis

pre 12 godina

Link from Etiopia is is identical with reality in Kosovo and Metohia.( 300 churches burn out) Thanks for that. Also Your country will be have same story and situation in near future like Serbian. Today west supported and created muslim state in Serb land, but door is open for Sharia law in the Balkan. I'm positive with my opinion that rest of the Europe will be cover very fast with this law.
(petar, 20 December 2011 18:44)

Which muslim state? When did Albanians ever fought against Serbia in the name of islam? There is no one here that favors a war on Islam in Balkans more than me, but your statement is purely rubish. In fact many orthodox nations are closer to the islamic mentality and lifestyle in that the church plays a big part in state affairs, either formaly or informally, and the religion is part of your identity.

Albanians generally are and traditionally have been radically a-religious or agnostics or even atheist, which puts them years ahead of your church run societies.

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

The muslims do nothing but drone on about islamophobia, yet their culture is completely intolerant to any other religion or culture. Even in the UK the muslims constantly moan about their rights, however if a non-muslim was to take a trip to a country where sharia law is in place then they would face an awful amount of discrimination and punishment for not following the islamic code. Yet while they live in Christian lands they demand their right to implement their culture on others, how sick and hypocritical.

Bugar Skoplje

pre 12 godina

"Which muslim state? When did Albanians ever fought against Serbia in the name of islam? There is no one here that favors a war on Islam in Balkans more than me, but your statement is purely rubish".
(Denis, 20 December 2011 21:51)
In past 10 yr Albo build over 200 mosque in Kosovo and Metohia also destroy 300 Serb Churches for you this is not religion fought. Tell your albo mafia your comment and you will be finish with your writing for ever.

zman

pre 12 godina

I thought it was because IZtebegovic wanted a pure Islamic state.. Looks like his dream is coming true .. Let's all sit and read the "Islamic declaration" by Izetbegovic to learn what fascism and racism and religious intolerance is all about.. Why west supports these crazy religious extremists is beyond me.. From Saudi Arabia to Bosnia and they are installing Sharia law in Libya... pathetic

sj

pre 12 godina

When the Islamization of the Balkans started, the Serbian Church took a hard-line against this and basically said that no-one who took another religion could consider themselves a Serb.

Maybe you didn't know this.

Any-way. It has nothing to do with being "liberal", it's simply a historical fact.

Against this fact, it's pretty ridiculous to call muslims "against any other culture or religion", when that's the position that the Serbian Church took - a position that one could argue lead to the eventual "bosniak" identity centuries later
(Danilo, 20 December 2011 17:51)

This is a great example of mixing 20 century ideas with earlier periods. This concept of being a Serb, Englishman/British subject or American regardless of religion or ethnicity is only a late 20 century phenomena.
You only have to go back 40 years in Italy where if you were a Muslim you were considered alien to their society and they never allowed Muslims to settle there anyway. In fact they did not allow black Africans to settle in Italy and that is a fact.
The term Bosniak came with the communists not the Serbian Orthodox Church just like they allowed Albanian refugees from Albania to settle in Kosovo.

Denis

pre 12 godina

As an Albanian that comes from a nonpracticing muslim family I would vote today to ban islam from entire Balkans if possible,and raise all themosques to the ground. I think Islam is by far the greatest enemy of my people and the entire region for that matter.

Leo

pre 12 godina

I don't think Dodik is at all objecting to Muslims having their "sharia" law as long as it applies only to them. In that sense, he is quite tolerant. He is objecting to the imposition of "sharia" on the Serbs and Croats. And in that sense, he is quite tolerant. Dodik simply makes sense and is tolerant and his enemies are bigoted and irrational...as usual.

Bill Romine

pre 12 godina

I want to know why there are less than 5000 Christian Serbs in Sarajevo today???
Sarajevo is a Islamic city that used to have close to half a million Christian Serbs - wow what a victory for Europe and the humanatarians!!!
And 78 Serbs in Pristina hahaha omg this is the most perverted thing I have ever heard...oh wait that is the Serbian fault, does that accusation remind you of anything?

Does it remind you of what the Nazi Croatians, Nazi Germans and Nazi Bosnian Muslims + Albanians said about the Jews- "it was their fault - they deserved it."

Leo

pre 12 godina

Bob the atheist longs for more atheists in his "state". Bob, when you grow up and leave the house go to North Korea. Nothing but atheists. Good grief. The Serb Orthodox Church miraculously survived Islam, Communism, NATO , Hilary and Bill Clinton and it will survive the "Bobs" of this temporal world. Merry Christmas.

Dragan

pre 12 godina

Against this fact, it's pretty ridiculous to call muslims "against any other culture or religion", when that's the position that the Serbian Church took - a position that one could argue lead to the eventual "bosniak" identity centuries later
(Danilo, 20 December 2011 17:51)

Wrong again, as usual. Tito invented the nationality of 'Bosnian' in order to further reduce the influence of Serbs in Yugoslavia. He also made Kosovo and Vojvodina autonomous, gave the name 'Macedonia' to the southern province - even though Macedonians are Greeks. All these things he did to weaken Serbia. Try doing a bit of research for a change - otherwise stick to data centers.
It's amazing how brainwashed you are, and you actually think you're smart, which is the biggest joke of all.

Bob

pre 12 godina

Leo

There is no need to be rude. I am probably older than you, and I am certainly better at choosing analogies. Diversionary comments about NKorea do nothing to counter my contribution about my resistance to religious bigotry being translated into impositional law or into justification for nasty nationalist causes.

Belief in god should be a personal decision and should not be the basis of politics - be it in religious states or anti-religious communist dictatorships.

A healthy separation between churches and states is the model that best serves the personal freedoms of all.

Leo

pre 12 godina

Bob, your comments were stupid and intolerant, stating inter alia, only atheists should be in positions of power. While we might welcome resistance to "sharia" law , I'm not sure what a "happy Islamophobe " means other than an expression in your case of a general and RUDE intolerance of any believer. If you are older than me, you are an old fool. Sorry to pop your self-inflated balloon. If you want to avoid the crossfire, make less absurd statements about what type of society you believe is ideal. Got it?

petar

pre 12 godina

Link from Etiopia is is identical with reality in Kosovo and Metohia.( 300 churches burn out) Thanks for that. Also Your country will be have same story and situation in near future like Serbian. Today west supported and created muslim state in Serb land, but door is open for Sharia law in the Balkan. I'm positive with my opinion that rest of the Europe will be cover very fast with this law.

szemi

pre 12 godina

It's amazing how brainwashed you are, and you actually think you're smart, which is the biggest joke of all.
(Dragan, 20 December 2011 21:06)

Maybe he is simply the misunderstood genius and if we took a tennis raquet and started hitting the ball randomly and continued this activity for hours repeating the mantra EU there are good chances that after a while we would get into a special frame of mind and understand this guy.

Roger7

pre 12 godina

It was the politicians in the former Yugoslavia who gave the "double identity" of Muslim.

Muslim, in the ethnic sense, was permitted in census taking and included in the Constitution of the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

Bob

pre 12 godina

I am happily islamophobic. Speaking as an athiest who thinks it is all total nonsense, I am very resistant to people who choose to subscribe to a creed of religious bigotry trying to impose law on anyone.

There is nothing wrong in being (so called) 'islamophobic' - in fact there is just cause.

Being resistant to Islam should not justify violence. This should be an intellectual issue.

Islam can have a place in the world because there are decent people who choose to believe it - but it should not be allowed to go unchallenged, and the idea of an 'Islamic state' or the imposition of its peculiar legal ideas is an affront to clear thinking and to common sense.

Benny Bläck

pre 12 godina

"Arn sweden" "pippi långstrump" or whatever:


Did you studied SFI "svenska för invandrare" (swedish for immigrants) when you arrived in Sweden, how many months ago? Judging from your lousy English you should still be years from getting a decent way of living here so i guess you read Jan Guillou´s "Arn", from where you got your futile fantasies about being a Swede, in your native tongue. Not much of a help now was it?

I for one, being a REAL Swede with no connection what so ever to the Balkans, besides i agree with the Serbian cause, would advice you to to take a more humble approach and not to be ashamed of your origin, if you are a "Zoran", then call yourself "Zoran". That would at least help you a bit further than your fellow Balkanites who already got their free ticket back, no matter what they called themselves.
All the best/ Benny B

Freddy

pre 12 godina

How interesting observation the fact that the Muslims of Bosnia were at one time fellow brothers, Christians. When the Ottomans came and established their laws many of these Christians converted to Islam and from that moment on created a division or sub group based on religion only. Islam is alien to this region and those who are Muslim should find their way back to their true identity. They should join the civilized world, where democracy and rule of law protect individual freedoms.

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

I would reply to Danilo and his constant anti-Serbian views but I think Dragan cleared it up for me.

As an example though, all credit to Emir Kusturica, born into a family who pre-WWII were muslim, he came to the realisation of his true identity and returned to it, by being baptised into the Serbian Orthodox Church.

trizo

pre 12 godina

haha the day that Sharia law exists in Bosnia is the day that a holy war occurs..

fundamentalism isn't really tolerated in the Balkans

Djedo

pre 12 godina

"As an example though, all credit to Emir Kusturica, born into a family who pre-WWII were muslim, he came to the realisation of his true identity and returned to it, by being baptised into the Serbian Orthodox Church."
(SCP UK, 20 December 2011 23:26)
Perfect example nothing wrong!
hm..that will be one nation again, like before?

Milovan

pre 12 godina

"and those who are Muslim should find their way back to their true identity. They should join the civilized world, where democracy and rule of law protect individual freedoms".
(Freddy, 20 December 2011 22:36)
If they do this, all Meddle East will be jump over night.

Andrei

pre 12 godina

Islam Is incompatable with western democracy. Slowing Europeans are waking up to threat of Islam. I blame the EU policies and politicians for all of this frictions. Sadly this leads to people like Anders Behring Breivik.

Bob

pre 12 godina

Danilo ... And other posters.

The 'Serbian' orthodox church uses the name of Serbia and likes to think that somehow it is a symbol of Serbia. In practice it is not a setter of public policy or necessarily strongly supported by all the citizens. Fortunately there are lots of atheists in Serbia too who think that religious people are exactly the wrong people to act as policy makers or implied representatives of the state.

Religions - of any type - must be tolerated within the system (and I do mean tolerated and not accepted or believed) but they are not and must not be at the heart of the state in Bosnia or Serbia.

Bob (the happily islamophobic apostate representative of freedom to be an atheist in all states)

Julio Lins

pre 12 godina

Yes, that´s good. Western media, including B92, NATO and US championed bosnian cause and favoured Bosnia against Serbia. Was Western blood shed to implement another shariah state?

Bob

pre 12 godina

Leo

You are out of line. Do not misquote me. I did not say only atheists should be in positions of power.

You are flaming. Flaming is when bloggers get too angry (I explain in case you were not aware of that).

There are two earlier postings from me. I suggest that you read both of them if you have any intention of trying to understand what I am arguing about being a 'happy islamophobe' - I think it is explained quite clearly in the first of the postings.

Further, I am not stupid or rude - but you most certainly are writing in a style that I consider abusive and inappropriate.

I am pleased that I have successfully challenged assumptions about belief, and will happily continue to do so.

Belief in god is not a given - in fact the evidence points very strongly to the view that there has been no divine intervention across the vast eons of time and that religion is very much an invention of humans of a way of dealing with their own ignorance.

There is also a severe point here in that the world is very messed up by people's overly strong belief. I am very tolerant of belief - but I also think that belief should never go unchallenged.

What is so special about the 'Serbian' orthodox church as opposed to any other? The church of Christ is supposed to be universal. I thought that Christ came for all men on the basis of love and forgiveness - not to give people a justification for their national causes. I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong.

Freddy

pre 12 godina

" A Strong Yugoslavia,you must have a weak Serbia". Folks you have to admit, if the West did not meddle in Yugoslavia internal affairs and allowed Yugoslavia to evolve into a free market,democratic open society it would be richer and more prosperous collectively. Today we have a independent states struggling, fighting, arguing and disfunctional. I bet most long for the old Yugoslavia..but a changed new one with out all that war, come on admit it..God Bless and Happy new Year!

Bosnjak

pre 12 godina

Bosnian Muslims have always been identified as Bosniaks. It wasn’t until the creation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia that Bosnian Muslims stopped being referred to as Bosniaks in an attempt by the Serbs and Croats to undermine the Bosniaks identity— similar to what many of you are doing now with your narrow-minded comments.

As far as Dodik’s comment is concerned, BiH is not moving towards becoming a sharia state. We do have vehabis in Bosnia, but so does the U.K, U.S., Germany, France, and etc. In a truly democratic state everyone should be able to follow whatever religion they want to. I think BiH should be more concerned with the fact that there are over 45,000 registered cetniks in the country—who in my opinion pose a much greater threat to the stability of the country.