Tadić: No support for partition of Kosovo

Is he starting to understand that the overwhelming majority of Kosovars do not ever want to be part of Serbia again? That this could only happen with another bloody war which would probably leave at least 100000 thousand people dear, Serbs as well as Kosovars? It still takes a bit more. Serbia has to face it's past, see what really happened , and not just point fingers at the others, and see itself as a victim. The victems of Milosovic were others, hundreds of thousends of people killed in the name of Serbia. I realize that war crimes were also conducted by Kosovars and other balcan nationalities, but they were fighting back after Milosovioc started his ethnic cleansing campaign, his war against anybody who didn't want to obey to his sick dream, and after his killing machine started to murder all these innocent people. Serbia, should not look at it in a nationlistic way, overlooking all the horrors it spread as well. It is sickening to hear people openly call for war, and help from some imaginary russian friends to free Kosovo. The same applies to the way some people on this site talk about Kosovars, simply sickening, and no way to convince the rest of the world that Serbia is a peace long country. You are not doing yourself any good by continuing this rhetoric. It looks as if Tadic as starting a reality check, but he still has a long way to go., and not just make these kind of comments outside Serbia, but also try to make the serbian public aware of this new reality.

I realize that war crimes were also conducted by Kosovars and other balcan nationalities, but they were fighting back after Milosovioc started his ethnic cleansing campaign, his war against anybody who didn't want to obey to his sick dream...
(Willi Pfaff, 19 December 2011 11:22)
--
Willi, please go back to watching CNN 24/7 instead of demonstrating your ignorance and racism here.
(Zoran, 19 December 2011 14:36)

Zoran,

Don't bother with this guy. His albanian lovers have completely brainwashed him full of KLA terrorist lies and propoganda. Love is blind, as they say.

I realize that war crimes were also conducted by Kosovars and other balcan nationalities, but they were fighting back after Milosovioc started his ethnic cleansing campaign, his war against anybody who didn't want to obey to his sick dream...
(Willi Pfaff, 19 December 2011 11:22)
--
Willi, please go back to watching CNN 24/7 instead of demonstrating your ignorance and racism here.

Enjoy the black hole EA!
(Another Canadian Serb, 19 December 2011 11:04)


Rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia.

Serbia in 1999: Belgrade looking for quick Kosovo solution

Serbia in 2000: Belgrade looking is working towards a Kosovo solution

Serbia in 2008: Kosovo declares independence but Belgrade still looking for alternatives to Kosovo solution

Serbia in December 2011: Belgrade continues to look for Kosovo solution

Serbia in 2015: Kosovo a fully fledged UN member and EU candidate, but Serbia still continues to look for Kosovo solution.

I love it how Serbs pretend to be living between Turkmenistan and Russia, none of their neighbors matter on recognition, and the people who should judge in international circumstances should be people who hear more Serb lies than Albanian truths.

It is way more simple than that, Serbias neighbors do not recognize the milosetadovukodramavic Serbia. All the countries that are filled with Serb immigrants, who are getting fed and given employment do not recognize Serbia. The Serb phony dreams and crocodile tears will be wiped off once the International Space Station recognizes Kosovo. lol

Sorry to hear about Ill to have died, he loved international law freedom prosperity and Serbia, he hated Kosovo because no more Serbs could colonize i heard, any news?

"I understand all countries, but the question arises as to who understands Serbia," Tadic concluded.
Nobody can understand an entire nation that claims for sovereignty at one country based on the churches of 13th century and not based on the will of its people (kosovars). You put yourself in other position for 5 minutes and you will not understand by yourself this mythologist approach that you have. Imagine that someone claim sovereignty in Serbia based on the ruins of 6th century or Mosques of Ottoman Empire. To be a factor in the Balkan developments get out of Mythology and live in reality.

The Rambouillet accords envisioned a plan of autonomy for Kosovo within the the FRY which consisted of Serbia and Montenegro. In which Kosovo had its own govt and Serbia was unable to make laws restricting it, plus Kosovo would have broad rights and representation at the federal level. Tha albanians did not like it but were willing to support it in exchange for western support to end the violence unleashed on them from Serbia. Serbia however, flat out rejected it and refused to consider such a proposal until after the UDI. Now Serbia is saying they are willing to give Kosovo more than autonomy less than independence which is basically what Rambouillet provided.
The problem is now too much water has flown under the bridge. The Albanian govt would never accept such a step backward and it no longer has international support.

dori

The reality is that 1.7 million Kosovo Albanians live with 7 million Serbians on the territory of Serbia.

Maybe Serbia should overtake Albania because there are more Serbs than Albanians in the territory of the Balkans.
(Another Canadian Serb, 19 December 2011 10:54)

Canadian Serb read Dimitrije Tucović to understand why your nation is suffering now and why it sound strange to the others, also to record what happen when Serbia and Greece tries to undertake Albania.

"I understand all countries, but the question arises as to who understands Serbia," he concluded.

I understand Serbia because it tells political fairy tails. Don't waste more time and money. You have many choices, either recognise officially Kosovo independence first and move forwared or get stuck with no prospect of Kosovo and EU.

You're acting like we have no legitimate interests just because in the last 50 years you have increased the population exponentially.
(trizo, 19 December 2011 13:18)
Trizo I don’t agree with a lot of your facts. But I’m doing what I suggested to you. For 5 minutes in my life I’m Trizo. Ok Albanian slowly with their demographic invasion gets Kosovo. At one certain point from 1981 they ask for “Kosovo Republic”. Certainly we cannot give to these separatists their rights. So what shall we do? We give the power to Milosevic, the strong man that know what to do with Albanians rebels. Yes Milosevic was the result of the desires of majority of Serbs versus KAlbanians. He accepted the mission and implemented it as you wished. The fate and balance of international power was not with the Serbia this time like during WWI. So Milosevic loose, Serbia loose. What shall we do now? We will react like all reasonable people in the earth, like Albanian in WWI, we will accept the fate even when is with us, even when is against us.
Now I’m Dori.
This “inferior Albanian” was reasonable one century before, and I can assure you that Albanian are as tough as you are. Be reasonable Trizo. You cannot do anything for Kosova, for decades at least. Get finished this story. You loose this time and badly.

Listen to what Nigel Farage has to say about Serbia joining the EU -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNHuC_IE_X8

B92, why don't you interview Mr Tadic and ask him, whether the allegations made by Farage, are correct? Will he become a multi-millionaire if he succeeds in joining the EU? Perhaps the same question can be put to Nikolic?

an observation

I was born and raised in Canada.

Canada today is what my parents helped make it.

Unlike Serbia's Kosovo Albanians, my parents never moved to Canada for handouts and demanding that Canada set up a Serbian school.

You Albanians need to assimilate in your host countr instead of trying to take it over.

Today Greece, Macedonia, Montenegro, Italy and Serbia all have problems with their minority Albanian populations.

Mr. Tadic is getting more and more inadequate..

EA

Tadic knows that even if Serbia recognizes Kosovo's UDI that there still wouldn't be an EU membership for Serbia.

Therefore no EU for Kosovo Albanians.

Enjoy the black hole EA!

"Maybe Serbia should overtake Albania because there are more Serbs than Albanians in the territory of the Balkans.
(Another Canadian Serb,"

Oh wow, another brave Serb is thinking of more blood

Alright, i will fall for this ridiculous troll, maybe Canada should overtake Serbia because there are more Canadians than Balto-Slavs than in Serbia! than only you out of the Balkans will be in the same delusion as you... :)

Anyway no need to fear the Albanians, all they are doing is buying up cheap Serb land and opening non profit rehabilitation houses for all the Serb supporters such as Chinese, Mongolian deep African and Pakistanis to come to Serbia and get payed minimum wages to compete with the EU you do not want. I am guessing that you want to thank them (Albanians) for bringing all your supporters and sharing your bread and wealth with them.
Keep being a generous person and people, lol, I hope you do not learn much from Canada the western hypocrites who wanted to stop genocides in the Balkans.

Do You suggest that Srbia was built up from Western Europe - ?

“All those who propose that Serbia should suspend its EU integration process, primarily because of Kosovo and Metohija, are in fact telling the citizens who will be born in the future and the young people of today that there will be less jobs and less possibilities to export Serbia's products,” Tadić underlined.

Comment - why should then Srbia manufacture for export when it can produce for the Serbians themselves.

We in Sweden will have our whole economy crushed if a War will ensue,
since our Economy are dependent on Export.

Arn.Sweden.

"Maybe Serbia should overtake Albania because there are more Serbs than Albanians in the territory of the Balkans.
(Another Canadian Serb,"

Oh wow, another brave Serb is thinking of more blood
(koko, 19 December 2011 12:13)
I don't think you are using the right description. After all you are talking about another Serb who has abandoned the homeland for a better life in the west. All the while wanting those that are forced to remain at home to suffer and be brave. They are the biggest proponents for Serbia to move closer to Russia but yet they remain firmly planted in the west enjoying the freedoms and benefits of the west.
But if you will notice these are the very ones advocating violence. I guess no life is too precious too satisfy the diasporia's sense of national pride is it. So Serbs in Serbia lay down your life so those who have that which you will never have can be proud!!
(an observation, 19 December 2011 12:47)

To Koko, Dori and Observation guy,

What is your (observation guy) interest in Kosovo and the Balkan)? Firstly, not sure of another canadian guy but I moved/fled croatia (did not abandon anyone !) in early 90's when Nazis and their supporters, Germans/NATO came to power.
When you speak of better life out here in the west, you must realize that one of seven people in USA live on the food stamps. 99% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the population. Finding a job in Canada/USA is extremly difficult for an immigrant, especially if you did not receive your education in canada. When you speak of benefits/freedoms out here in the west don't forget I enjoyed those same freedoms and much more living in the former yugoslavia!
Proud of my people, proud to be a serb and will continue to support K. Serbs for their right to live and prosper on the land that rightfully belonged to them....from love with canada....

-by the way I have nothing against hot K. albanian women!...after all, they are all serbs whos granfathers changed their name during ottomans...

Timber Wolf

Then don't blame the K-Serbs, especially those in the north, if they do not wanna be in the black hole of your creation.
(lowe, 19 December 2011 12:42)

As long as you don't blaim albanians in Preshevo valley if they dont want to be a part of the big black hole called Serbia.


It's all about reciprocity.

Keep on looking!

Tung

Tadic, you can find the Kosovo solution behind the back of the sofa. It has been there all along.

dori

The reality is that 1.7 million Kosovo Albanians live with 7 million Serbians on the territory of Serbia.

Maybe Serbia should overtake Albania because there are more Serbs than Albanians in the territory of the Balkans.

"I understand all countries, but the question arises as to who understands Serbia," Tadic concluded.
Nobody can understand an entire nation that claims for sovereignty at one country based on the churches of 13th century and not based on the will of its people (kosovars). You put yourself in other position for 5 minutes and you will not understand by yourself this mythologist approach that you have. Imagine that someone claim sovereignty in Serbia based on the ruins of 6th century or Mosques of Ottoman Empire. To be a factor in the Balkan developments get out of Mythology and live in reality.
(dori tirana, 19 December 2011 10:14)

Dori,

The reason we are going back to the 13th century is because Albanians have slowly driven out Serbs from Kosovo, too. You think that Milosevic is the only one to ever try and drive out the other race. You guys sided with the Ottomans to get rid of us, and then you sided with the Germans too. Your birth rate was an average of over 7 children per household while Serbian birth rate in Kosovo was much less. You grew exponentially and from our perspective made it difficult to live with (neighbours).

Ethnic cleansing does not always have to be so dramatic & instantaneous. Your people have tried to ethnically cleanse the Serbs for generations so don't act like your Albanian race are just victims bla bla. What is your explanation for our population in Kosovo decreasing from a majority since as far back as history goes???

Seriously. You are from Tirana and you're a patriotic Albanian caring for the Albanians who live in Serbia (Kosovo) and have cleansed us to a point where we are no longer the majority.

The KosovARS obviously do not want Serbia as their government because the majority is now Albanian. That is clear. But the reason why we bring up history is because we were the majority and don't believe the majority has changed under fair circumstances.

You're acting like we have no legitimate interests just because in the last 50 years you have increased the population exponentially.

Willi Pfaff, the main destabilizing factor for Yugoslavia from abroad was Germany advocating Croatia premature seccesion from Yugoslavia in the border of former YU Croatian republic.

Kosovo has been part of independent Serbia since 1912 officially
(aaayyy, 19 December 2011 13:12)
Aaayyy do you know how Kosovo becomes part of Serbia on 1912. I suggest you to read Dimitrije Tucović. If you don’t have time I explain it to you with one phrase ‘Milosevic was in fashion and successful at that time”.

A fact for Dori-Tirana

I just read about the banovinas in yu.
Vardar banovina: had 1.5mil people
499 where Muslim
Have in mind around 120k Turks
110k Albanians in Macedonia
50K Serb Muslims
so around 200k Albanian Muslims in kosovo
Macedonia had 900k people so kosovo had 600k people
Do the Math:
600K Kosovo
200k Albanians
means 400k Serbs and others
Then you had zeta banovina part around pec
another 100k people of which most Albanians
so I can conclude that the number was 50/50% Serb/Albanian in Kosovo 1931

Then my question

What gives the Albanians in Kosovo the right to claim the whole land for themselves and not allowing Serbs to live in their ancestral land?

"Arn.Sweden":

Im afraid there is no "we in Sweden" for you, no matter what you call yourself.

"Arn.Sweden", "Pippi Långstrump" ,"Madicken" or "Karlsson på taket" (take your pick), when the crisis arrives here you and the Romanians, Albs & K-Albs will enjoy a free ticket back to Balkan.I hope you had a good time while it lasted but that´s how it works so you better start to prepare yourself. God Jul! (Merry Christmas)

"Rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia.
(Demi, 19 December 2011 12:11)"

Then don't blame the K-Serbs, especially those in the north, if they do not wanna be in the black hole of your creation.

Don't ever stop looking.Who gives a damn if Macedonia reviews recognition.Once US recognizes a country then it's a done deal.Like it or not US runs the world and always will.Get over it.Feed your hungry people.

Once again b92 get it right, there is no such country called Macedonia, it is a province of Greece. I think you might be referring to the nation of FYROM, which the Albanians have a large and an ever growing influence in

"Maybe Serbia should overtake Albania because there are more Serbs than Albanians in the territory of the Balkans.
(Another Canadian Serb,"

Oh wow, another brave Serb is thinking of more blood
(koko, 19 December 2011 12:13)
I don't think you are using the right description. After all you are talking about another Serb who has abandoned the homeland for a better life in the west. All the while wanting those that are forced to remain at home to suffer and be brave. They are the biggest proponents for Serbia to move closer to Russia but yet they remain firmly planted in the west enjoying the freedoms and benefits of the west.
But if you will notice these are the very ones advocating violence. I guess no life is too precious too satisfy the diasporia's sense of national pride is it. So Serbs in Serbia lay down your life so those who have that which you will never have can be proud!!

The Rambouillet accords envisioned a plan of autonomy for Kosovo within the the FRY which consisted of Serbia and Montenegro. In which Kosovo had its own govt and Serbia was unable to make laws restricting it, plus Kosovo would have broad rights and representation at the federal level.
(pss, 19 December 2011 11:23)
--
LOL! A nice bit of revisionism there. How about the fact that the Rambouillet accords would give KiM independence after 3 years (by referendum) and would have all of the then Yugoslavia occupied by NATO forces. That is the reason it was rejected. It was designed so that no country could accept it and lead to the bombings.

Only when those two unacceptable conditions were dropped, as they were in UNSCR1244, did Milosevic accept the terms. UNSCR1244 is much better than Rambouillet so we ended up in a stronger position. Thirteen years later and still no independence, thanks to Milosevic and Kostunica, but no thanks to Tadic and the sell-outs.

(Willi Pfaff, 19 December 2011 11:22)
Tadic always understands that KAlbs don't want to be part of Serbia. Do you and Merkel in your turn understand that KSerbs don't want to be under Prishtina control? Do you understand that Prishtina can impose its control over Northern Kosovo only by force and/or ethnic cleansing, implemented by KFOR?

Do you understand that the Serbian politician didn't say that Serbia is ready to go to war to free Kosovo, but should be ready to prevent attacks and/or ethnic cleansing of KSerbs? It is very possible that such plans are being considered now by Merkel, Thaci and German leader of KFOR.

The Rambouillet accords envisioned a plan of autonomy for Kosovo within the the FRY which consisted of Serbia and Montenegro. In which Kosovo had its own govt and Serbia was unable to make laws restricting it, plus Kosovo would have broad rights and representation at the federal level. Tha albanians did not like it but were willing to support it in exchange for western support to end the violence unleashed on them from Serbia. Serbia however, flat out rejected it and refused to consider such a proposal until after the UDI.
(pss)

At Rambouillete Serbia (YU) agreed to all those proposals of autonomy for Kosovo, YU didn't agree for NATO occupation and full freedom of movement of not only Kosovo but central Serbia as well. Have you read the text of Ramboulette accord?

Albanians agreed to it because they were promised they would have independence in several years.

Now I’m Dori.
This “inferior Albanian” was reasonable one century before, and I can assure you that Albanian are as tough as you are. Be reasonable Trizo. You cannot do anything for Kosova, for decades at least. Get finished this story. You loose this time and badly.
(dori tirana, 19 December 2011 14:41)

I'm not trying to be condescending but I don't understand what you mean by saying "get finished this story, this time you lose badly"??

Anyway, I'll put myself into the shoes of a K.Alb.. but if he doesn't wear shoes then i'll just go barefoot ok?

So, I originate from Albania & emigrate to Kosovo in say 1200.. I realise that there is a large Serbian population which dominate the region of Kosovo. As I go to the local tourist information centre, the kind but beautiful Serbian woman shows me a few maps which illustrate 99% of the towns & municipalities have Serbian names. I leave the shop & return to my donkey.

I go back to Albania & tell my family that I have a dream to populate Kosovo with as many Albanians as possible and one day in the future my descendants will rename villages, towns & municipalities to better suit the Albanian population.

I venture back to Kosovo with all of my family and their family and their family's families + their family's family's family.

We start off on relatively good terms with the Serbs but unfortunately they (Serbs) do not want to give us free rents, discounted food and can you believe it? they want us to pay tax for the land here (I know, ridiculous).

We very quickly don't like these rules & quickly learn that if we multiply and live under the one roof the tax will be less per person :D winner!

The Ottomans arrive from Turkey and start war with the Serbs. They come with a different religion called "Islam" and tell all the inhabitants of Kosovo that any non muslim will have to pay tax or 'extra' tax while discounts and benefits will be given to those who convert under the name of Islam.

Well, I can quickly tell you that we jumped at this opportunity to evade tax and get something for nothing :D

We quickly tell the Ottomans that we don't really like the Serbs because they make us pay tax and won't let us claim sovereignty in villages throughout southern & western Kosovo, so we convert to Islam and take side with the Ottomans.

The Serbs obviously don't like this because they are losing a battle where they are severely outnumbered and the Albanians took a cheap shot against the Serbs by converting to Islam and joining the Turks to overthrow the Serbian government, seeing as the Albanians had no chance of doing this themselves (just like in today's times).

In return the Ottomans stuck by their word and rewarded the Albanians with parcels of land in Kosovo & instructed local Albanian authorities to govern districts.

*Fast forward 500 years*

By this time many Albanians have emigrated to their newly beloved KosovA & are ever increasing their population exponentially claiming more & more rights to the land. They have probably an equal ratio to the Serbs at this time and continue on their mission to gain complete control of Kosovo. Some revolts occur but even with these large numbers they cannot and never did defeat the Serbs in any way whatsoever.

The Ottomans are driven out & the Kosovo is divided up.

The Albanians then see another opportunity to gain more control by joining the fascist regime of Nazi Germany. They are somewhat successful and are still proud of their achievements even though none of which were attributed to their own uprisings but all ground made was at the hands of foreign occupiers.

Its 2011 & apparently history is not relevant because as soon as the Serbs mention history the Albanians just tell the Serbs that it's not important. The Albanians now have a majority population and will continue until all Serbs are exterminated from Kosovo & all profits from Serbian human organs have been sent electronically to the government in Pristina.

Wow, i've just come back from being in the "Albanians shoes", but I don't feel good... I feel like I was a cheat and all of my pride was based on theft & deceit, I used to be catholic but I converted to Islam for sinister motives.

God, thank God I'm back to being Serbian. I feel honest and real.

Tadic states "I understand all countries, but the question arises as to who understands Serbia". Unfortunately Mr. Tadic in this Article is wobbling all over the place and maybe his problem is that he does not understand Serbia or its diaspora. Tadic could learn lessons from British Prime Minister David Cameron. Look after the sovereignty and the citizens of your own country first and last and then take on board requirements and requests of others because otherwise you will be used without guarantees. Old saying "put your own house is order first". Perhaps too many years under Communism has confused Mr. Tadic and his colleagues and they still have not learnt that they have rights. Europe is important to Serbia, but respect, identity which is a human right and sovereignty must exist in order to be a normal European. Many in the diaspora would like Mr. Tadic to simply stop working so hard to "understand all countries" and focus on the Republic of Serbia and its citizens and that is not a nationalist sin.

To Koko, Dori and Observation guy,

What is your (observation guy) interest in Kosovo and the Balkan)? Firstly, not sure of another canadian guy but I moved/fled croatia (did not abandon anyone !) in early 90's when Nazis and their supporters, Germans/NATO came to power.
When you speak of better life out here in the west, you must realize that one of seven people in USA live on the food stamps. 99% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the population. Finding a job in Canada/USA is extremly difficult for an immigrant, especially if you did not receive your education in canada. When you speak of benefits/freedoms out here in the west don't forget I enjoyed those same freedoms and much more living in the former yugoslavia!
Proud of my people, proud to be a serb and will continue to support K. Serbs for their right to live and prosper on the land that rightfully belonged to them....from love with canada....

-by the way I have nothing against hot K. albanian women!...after all, they are all serbs whos granfathers changed their name during ottomans...

Timber Wolf
(Canadian Serb, 19 December 2011 17:16)

Canadian Serb First its not so hard to get a Job in US or Canada just need to be in right field no matter where you are educated. My wife graduated from Pristina university Electrical Engineering department and now she works in USA for GE. So do 20 Ex Yugoslavs ( Serbs, Croats Macedonians all educated in their own country).


You making comment about Albanian woman being ex Serbs makes a great point many people in Kosovo make ( a lot of Albanians were categorised as Serbs just because their religion at that time being Catholic or Orthodox so thank you for proving our point that yes we been here we did not come in some sip from outer space and you always have used propaganda as historical tool).

Also as per K-Albanins never got any special treatment from Serbs if you count special treatment being beaten, jailed, not allowed to speak your own language, poisoned in your school Sure special it was.

oh pls there is nothing to talk any more.
I also just read that albania will deny its citizen to declare their nationality . That means that you can only be albanian in the country Albania! At the same time Albanians DEMAND autonomy in neighbour countries and want even more. Where is the compromise?
Talking is pointless with people who want to take over our lands, Its up to tadic and other leader to decide will they defend kosovo! or go on with the Albanian/NWO plan independent Kosovo?

Nobody can understand an entire nation that claims for sovereignty at one country based on the churches of 13th century and not based on the will of its people (kosovars).
(dori tirana)
Serbia claims Kosovo not only based on the churches of 13th century, but also on the following facts:

1) Kosovo has been part of independent Serbia since 1912 officially
2) Up to 1960th - 1970th Kosovo had very large Serbian minority - up to 1/3
3) What is people's will? There are several algorithms of definition of people's will, not only simple majority as you seem to propose. For example of a region has several ethnic groups, it is logical to give veto power to each group over important decisions (such as independence)

I Quote -

"Arn.Sweden":

Im afraid there is no "we in Sweden" for you, no matter what you call yourself.

"Arn.Sweden", "Pippi Långstrump" ,"Madicken" or "Karlsson på taket" (take your pick), when the crisis arrives here you and the Romanians, Albs & K-Albs will enjoy a free ticket back to Balkan.I hope you had a good time while it lasted but that´s how it works so you better start to prepare yourself. God Jul! (Merry Christmas)
(Ove Nordenhag & Benny Bläck, 19 December 2011 11:59)

Comment -

I can assure you that i am Swedish as much as You are,
and I can also conclude that,
you are probably an Nazi in Legue with The Refugee Croatian Nazis in Sweden,
as i dont see your signature anywhere else than here.

And I do also know that the Nazis of Sweden has their Eyes on the Serbs,
as the Serbs is Their biggest obstacle and Foe.

By Looser !!!.

Arn.Sweden.

As long as you don't blaim albanians in Preshevo valley if they dont want to be a part of the big black hole called Serbia.

It's all about reciprocity.
(Demi, 19 December 2011 18:21)
--
Lets not forget the Serbs in Strpce and the Gorani in the south of the province. Next.

What two Germanies? - if you remember well, Prof.Tadic, they were comprised of the same people, same language, same culture, same history. Serbia and Kosovo are not and you know just as as everyone knows.
What South Tyrol? - They are a set of Austro-Italian complexity, which Kosovo is not a Serbian-Albanian complexity. It is Kosovo Albanian complexity, that's it. And you know it.
Northern Ireland? - No comment! Maybe you can sell these nonsense to your naive citizens, but not to the world. Cease daydreaming, sir!

@Proud Albanian. Just because the US recognises a state then the whole world does too. If you don't mind me saying that is a little naive. The US has got itself in a bit of a mess in Kosovo. Without understanding the history of the region. However, I do think that both sides of the community should now be talking to each other to improve the lives of their populations. Stop point scoring and demonising the other side. You have to live with one another once the international community has gone. Kosovo, Serbia is your biggest neighbour engage with its people. Serbia accept that the majority of the population on the ground in Kosovo no longer wants to follow your lead. Europe has moved on from the dark days of conflict. Please do the same in this part of the region.

"An black hole located between EU countrys i the middle of europe. Similar to Kazaksthan or Azerbadjan :)
(Demi, 20 December 2011 11:29)”

By the way, Demi, you may be interested to know how YOUR black holes are doing, income wise, compared with your wonderful paradise of "Kosova":

The World Bank reported the following GDP per capita for 2010:

Azerbaijan USD 5722
Kazakhstan USD 9136
Kosovo USD 3059

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD

By the way, Demi, you may be interested to know how YOUR black holes are doing, income wise, compared with your wonderful paradise of "Kosova":

The World Bank reported the following GDP per capita for 2010:

Azerbaijan USD 5722
Kazakhstan USD 9136
Kosovo USD 3059

[link]
(lowe, 20 December 2011 14:42)


Well I see you compare Kosova with other countrys. Good to see that you have start to understand.


As for your GDP per capita list. Kosova has been independent for 4 years and is still not far from Serbia wich has been independent for almost 150 years. Serbia is located in the middle of europe and has a smaller GDP than Azerbadjan and Kazakhstan.


When Kosova will be independent for 150 years like Serbia then we can compare again. Or let's say in a period of 10-20 years from now we will be equal to the black hole called Serbia.

I don’t think I got you wrong.

On 19th Dec, Another Canadian Serb told EA to “Enjoy the black hole EA!”

To which you replied “Rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia”. So it seems to me that you are agreeing with what Another Canadian Serb was saying about Kosovo being in the black hole and that, moreover, you would rather be in this black hole than be under Serbia! And, as I told you already, I see no reason to disagree with you since you ought to know “Kosova” better.

As for your assertion now that Serbia will be a black hole if it doesn’t recognize “Kosova”, in the absence of convincing proof from you (which I doubt will be coming), I think we must all take what you claim with a rather big pinch of salt.
(lowe, 20 December 2011 13:36)


You must be young to not understand that you got me wrong.

I said that I rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia. This dosen't mean that I was talking about Kosova. The canadian serb diden't refer to Kosovo either. Maybee he did but it diden't stand so in his post. I wrelly mean an real black hole in the wood's!


As for your wanting proof that Serbia will be an black hole if it dosen't recognize Kosova. I am sorry that you cannot figure that out your self. You president proved this in the article we are commenting. If not an member of EU Serbia will have it hard in the future. Much harder when it will be surronded by EU countrys.

And Serbia will not get EU membership without recognizing Kosova that's a fact.

"As long as you don't blaim albanians in Preshevo valley if they dont want to be a part of the big black hole called Serbia.


It's all about reciprocity.
(Demi, 19 December 2011 18:21)"

On the contrary, it is hardly reciprocity at all.

It is your OPINION that Serbia is a black hole, which others are free to agree or disagree, and so this becomes a debatable point.

It is however your own ADMISSION that "Kosova" IS a black hole from your earlier post. Which I have no reason to disagree with you since you must surely know "Kosova" so well.

To Pierre -

(Pierre, 20 December 2011 09:14)

The People of Former East Germany is Slavs who has been Germanised,
The People of South Germany is of Celtic origin mixed with Slavs in Bavaria/Bayern whom has also been Germanised.

The People of Tyrol in Italy as well the People North of the PO River is of Celtic origin but has ben Italianised.

This as such.

Arn.sweden.

“You must got it wrong. I wrote in my post that rather be in an black whole than live in the same country as Serbia. I never said that Kosova was an black hole because it isn't. it was an small black hole in a big black hole during the 90's.

It is your opinion that Kosova is a black hole. That's not my opinion and not the opinion of the free world (western countrys).

Serbia will be a black hole if it dosen't recognize Kosova. An black hole located between EU countrys i the middle of europe. Similar to Kazaksthan or Azerbadjan :)
(Demi, 20 December 2011 11:29)”

I don’t think I got you wrong.

On 19th Dec, Another Canadian Serb told EA to “Enjoy the black hole EA!”

To which you replied “Rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia”. So it seems to me that you are agreeing with what Another Canadian Serb was saying about Kosovo being in the black hole and that, moreover, you would rather be in this black hole than be under Serbia! And, as I told you already, I see no reason to disagree with you since you ought to know “Kosova” better.

As for your assertion now that Serbia will be a black hole if it doesn’t recognize “Kosova”, in the absence of convincing proof from you (which I doubt will be coming), I think we must all take what you claim with a rather big pinch of salt.

Canadian Serb, 19 December 2011 17:16)
You say that 1 in 7 people in the US live on food stamps and make that like it is not a good thing for them. A family of 4 who qualifies for food stamps gets 600 dollars a month in free food to feed their family. My income which I will not disclose is many times over the level for food stamps and I purchase all the food for my family and it does not come to more than 600 a month. Now how much in food would you be able to give your family in Serbia if you were unemployed?
Not really familiar with the welfare system in Canada.
My issue is you have found refuge in the west, they took you in, You chose to go to the west not to Russia or China for a reason. Now you want to deny supposedly your brethren the same chances you had by having them turn against the west and to embrace a country that was not there for you. I find it ironic that in fleeing from NATO influx you chose a NATO country to flee to, this makes no sense.
My interest in the balkans is I spent time there and I want to see prosperity for all the people there. I do not want to see Serbs controlling Albanians or Albanians controlling Serbs. There is no future for Kosovo in Serbia, but through the Ahtisaari plan and with international supervision the Serbs in Kosovo have a chance if they would accept it. Should Serbia have accepted a similar plan for Kosovo I would have been in favor of that 7 years ago and not supported a UDI. But that was not an option then and I do not believe it is an option now and I bleieve the independence of Kosovo is irreversible. The issue of the Serbs inside of Kosovo is one that needs to be worked out between themselves, Pristina and the International community. I would have listed Serbia but I do not see their interest in the betterment of the lives for the Serbs in Kosovo. It is politically to their advantage for them to suffer.

You chose to go to the west not to Russia or China for a reason. Now you want to deny supposedly your brethren the same chances you had by having them turn against the west and to embrace a country that was not there for you. I find it ironic that in fleeing from NATO influx you chose a NATO country to flee to, this makes no sense.
(an observation, 20 December 2011 08:32)

Wrong, wrong, and again, wrong.

Are you forgetting that many of our forefathers were 'prisoners of war'????

Do you think my family 'chose' to leave?? Do you think my Grandfather 'chose' to leave Serbia??? Do you think he 'chose' to not see his parents ever again??? Do you think he 'chose' to have spend 6 years in a Nazi concentration camp & 5 years in a 'displaced persons' camp'???

Perhaps this might be an "observation" worth considering before you start calling us Serbs living abroad hypocrites! I go back to Serbia as much as possible because I love it there & no place can compare & already I'm making plans to build a house there.

Hope you can admit that your observations are only knee deep.

this man is a person from the past, already. there is in fact nothing progressive he could say or do - except to step down and let others do the job.

Tadic will be remembered as an obstacle to KiM-liberation and a naive servant of foreign interests.

time for him to resign.

This is like Bosnia not recognizing 'republika srpska', and saying that we are still looking for a solution.

“I'm guessing these figures are GDP (nominal) as opposed to GDP (PPP)?

Also I like the way you cherry picked Kazakhstan from central Asia to compare with Kosovo. Why didn't you pick Kyrgyzstan which has a GDP (nominal) per capita of 860 according to the World Bank in 2010?

And I like the way you cherry picked Azerbaijan from the Caucasus region. Why didn't you pick Armenia which has a GDP (nominal) per capita of 2,996 according to the World Bank in 2010?

Anyway, yes Kosovo has a low GDP (nominal) per capita, but compare it to 2006.

Azerbaijan USD 3,826
Kazakhstan USD 6,868
Kosovo USD 1,522

Kosovo has had a bigger growth percent wise than the other two.

Also compare their unemployment rates.

Azerbaijan 1.2% Unemployed (2004)
Kazakhstan 8% Unemployed (2004)
Kosovo 60% Unemployed (2006)



Azerbaijan 6% Unemployed (2009)
Kazakhstan 6.1% Unemployed (2010)
Kosovo 40% Unemployed (2010)

Kosovo has also had the best improvement in employment figures, Azerbaijan's unemployment has got worse.
(Ian, UK, 20 December 2011 20:36)”

You just made a fool of yourself! If you had bothered to read my exchanges with Demi properly, you would easily see that it was DEMI, NOT ME, who “cherry pick” Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan. On 20 Dec, Demi wrote “An black hole located between EU countrys i the middle of europe. Similar to Kazaksthan or Azerbadjan”. I didn’t mention Armenia or Kyrgyzstan obviously because these were NOT Demi’s choice of countries and so would have been irrelevant to our exchanges.

I know you are just dying to find fault with me, but in this instance you cherry picked wrongly and ended up falling headlong into the black hole yourself about Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan!

I should also mention that a high growth rate itself doesn’t mean very much if that growth was taking place from a low base rate to begin with. China has fantastic growth rates too, but her per capita income is nowhere near the Yankees’ and so I wouldn’t be so quick to jump the gun and conclude therefore that the average Chinese are living better than the Yankees on the basis of growth rates alone.

Tadic and other Serbs are frustrated .
They say how come that Macedonia can get way with laying of being ancient Macedonians,and Serbs can't get way with there laying of Kosova is there cradle.
Did Macedonians gave you any tip in twisting the history?

“You must be young to not understand that you got me wrong.

I said that I rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia. This dosen't mean that I was talking about Kosova. The canadian serb diden't refer to Kosovo either. Maybee he did but it diden't stand so in his post. I wrelly mean an real black hole in the wood's!


As for your wanting proof that Serbia will be an black hole if it dosen't recognize Kosova. I am sorry that you cannot figure that out your self. You president proved this in the article we are commenting. If not an member of EU Serbia will have it hard in the future. Much harder when it will be surronded by EU countrys.

And Serbia will not get EU membership without recognizing Kosova that's a fact.
(Demi, 20 December 2011 19:31)”

If anyone got anything wrong here, it was definitely YOU!
Let me review the exchanges for your muddled mind’s benefit. On 19 December, Another Canadian Serb wrote:

“EA

Tadic knows that even if Serbia recognizes Kosovo's UDI that there still wouldn't be an EU membership for Serbia.

Therefore no EU for Kosovo Albanians.

Enjoy the black hole EA!
(Another Canadian Serb, 19 December 2011 11:04)”

Anyone can see (except you perhaps?) that Another Canadian Serb was talking about Kosovo and K-Albanians when he/she talked about the black hole!

Then you subsequently decided to join the exchanges between EA and Another Canadian Serb with the following post:

"Rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia.
(Demi, 19 December 2011 12:11)"

I would think that in the normal communication in the English language, when you joined the discussions between EA and Another Canadian Serb over the black hole issue by stating that you would rather be in this black hole (without any proviso to indicate that you do not however consider Kosovo to be a black hole), it should be taken that you have accepted Another Canadian Serb’s interpretation of Kosovo being a black hole!

Of course I cannot figure out how Serbia would be a black hole if she did not recognize “Kosova”. That’s why I’m asking you for the proof – which you were not able to provide any clear and objective evidence – how did Tadic proved this????? Did he or the article provide compelling evidence about a black hole that Serbia is going to become in the future?????? By the way, he ain’t “You president” (sic) because I’m neither a Serb nor a Serbian citizen.

Finally, how is Serbia gonna “be surronded by EU countrys” (sic)?????? The last time I checked the atlas, Serbia has a state border with Bosnia and an administrative border with Kosovo. What makes you so sure Bosnia and Kosovo are both joining the EU anytime soon???? And Macedonia and Montenegro have barely started, and if the Turkish experience is any indication, they can expect a real long, long, long wait – are you sure the EU itself will still be around in its present form by then?

“Well I see you compare Kosova with other countrys. Good to see that you have start to understand.


As for your GDP per capita list. Kosova has been independent for 4 years and is still not far from Serbia wich has been independent for almost 150 years. Serbia is located in the middle of europe and has a smaller GDP than Azerbadjan and Kazakhstan.


When Kosova will be independent for 150 years like Serbia then we can compare again. Or let's say in a period of 10-20 years from now we will be equal to the black hole called Serbia.
(Demi, 20 December 2011 19:19)”

Oh, I missed your 2nd reply to me and so this is my 2nd reply to you.

I was comparing “Kosova” with those countries that YOU compared Serbia with ie. Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan. YOU called them black holes and yet they have far superior per capita GDPs (an objective measure to me) compared with “Kosova” – isn’t this a classic case of the pot (YOU and “Kosova”) calling the kettle black?

So Serbia has a smaller per capita GDP than these 2 countries ….. so what? Bottom line is that “Kosova”’s per capita GDP is barely 58% of Serbia’s. And so if Serbia is a black hole on the basis of per capita GDP and your subjective view, what would you call “Kosova”? Maybe a HUMONGOUS, MEGA black hole! Ha ha ha! Again the pot calling the kettle black!

And obviously history ain’t your forte. How can Serbia be “independent for 150 years” under the rule of Tito’s Yugoslavia????? Stop making up stories for goodness sakes! You only make yourself look so foolish!

(Ian, UK, 20 December 2011 20:36)
In defense of lowe, he was only listing the countries that Demi had listed.
However, if you look at the whole report it uncovers more.
1st. Kosovo is listed as a country separate from Serbia.
2nd. Serbia had a significant more drop in GDP over last 2 years higher than Kosovo.
3rd. There are many established countries that have not had a similar 20 year history of Kosovo in much worse shape.

My biggest question is how after Serbia spent 10 years destroying all infrastructure, manufacturing, economy and education systems in Kosovo and then another 12 years since trying to block any progress in those arenas can they smugly stand there and criticize the position of Kosovo.
Kosovo went from 1990-1999 under Serbian control with an emphasis of destruction, to international control from 1999-2008+ under a phase more of stagnation than building. The Kosovo leadership has had less than 3 years to prove themselves against decades of Serbia. I think they have come along remarkably well under their present circumstances.

"I really sympathize... my family also 'chose' to leave its house and go to Siberia. my Grandfather 'chose' to leave its country. He 'chose' to not see his parents ever again. He 'chose' to have spend 6 years in a Soviet concentration camp & 5 years in a Siberia forced labor camp.
(icj1, 21 December 2011 04:40) "

Your poor, poor Gramps! How he must have suffered at the hands of those so horrid Soviets! But methinks even that suffering must have been NOTHING compared with his suffering when YOU arrived in the family! Ha ha ha@!

The World Bank reported the following GDP per capita for 2010:

Azerbaijan USD 5722
Kazakhstan USD 9136
Kosovo USD 3059

[link]
(lowe, 20 December 2011 14:42)

I'm guessing these figures are GDP (nominal) as opposed to GDP (PPP)?

Also I like the way you cherry picked Kazakhstan from central Asia to compare with Kosovo. Why didn't you pick Kyrgyzstan which has a GDP (nominal) per capita of 860 according to the World Bank in 2010?

And I like the way you cherry picked Azerbaijan from the Caucasus region. Why didn't you pick Armenia which has a GDP (nominal) per capita of 2,996 according to the World Bank in 2010?

Anyway, yes Kosovo has a low GDP (nominal) per capita, but compare it to 2006.

Azerbaijan USD 3,826
Kazakhstan USD 6,868
Kosovo USD 1,522

Kosovo has had a bigger growth percent wise than the other two.

Also compare their unemployment rates.

Azerbaijan 1.2% Unemployed (2004)
Kazakhstan 8% Unemployed (2004)
Kosovo 60% Unemployed (2006)



Azerbaijan 6% Unemployed (2009)
Kazakhstan 6.1% Unemployed (2010)
Kosovo 40% Unemployed (2010)

Kosovo has also had the best improvement in employment figures, Azerbaijan's unemployment has got worse.

Can somene explain to Tadic how politics works? He needs a simple message. And that simple message is that Serbia wants border changes because the rights of the Serbs in Kosovo are insufficient. He may indicate that he is open to other solutions. But that shouldn't keep him from his main message. It is useless to talk about extra autonomy if Pristina has already excluded that option: Tadic should be clear about that.

We have seen a similar pattern in the last two decades where Serbia swallows its main arguments and demands under international pressure. The result is always an incoherent story that is discarded internationally as the grumbling of some leftover nationalists.

On the contrary, it is hardly reciprocity at all.

It is your OPINION that Serbia is a black hole, which others are free to agree or disagree, and so this becomes a debatable point.

It is however your own ADMISSION that "Kosova" IS a black hole from your earlier post. Which I have no reason to disagree with you since you must surely know "Kosova" so well.
(lowe, 20 December 2011 02:08)

You must got it wrong. I wrote in my post that rather be in an black whole than live in the same country as Serbia. I never said that Kosova was an black hole because it isn't. it was an small black hole in a big black hole during the 90's.

It is your opinion that Kosova is a black hole. That's not my opinion and not the opinion of the free world (western countrys).

Serbia will be a black hole if it dosen't recognize Kosova. An black hole located between EU countrys i the middle of europe. Similar to Kazaksthan or Azerbadjan :)

This is like Bosnia not recognizing 'republika srpska', and saying that we are still looking for a solution.
(Avni, 20 December 2011 03:21)

Bosnia doesn't recognize RS as independent state and says it will never do..

Should Serbia have accepted a similar plan for Kosovo I would have been in favor of that 7 years ago and not supported a UDI.
(an observation)

What was a similar plan for Kosovo 7 years ago, who proposed it?

Typical Albanian mentality:

What South Tyrol? - They are a set of Austro-Italian complexity, which Kosovo is not a Serbian-Albanian complexity. It is Kosovo Albanian complexity, that's it.
(Pierre)

Do you think my family 'chose' to leave?? Do you think my Grandfather 'chose' to leave Serbia??? Do you think he 'chose' to not see his parents ever again??? Do you think he 'chose' to have spend 6 years in a Nazi concentration camp & 5 years in a 'displaced persons' camp'???
(trizo, 20 December 2011 13:23)

I really sympathize... my family also 'chose' to leave its house and go to Siberia. my Grandfather 'chose' to leave its country. He 'chose' to not see his parents ever again. He 'chose' to have spend 6 years in a Soviet concentration camp & 5 years in a Siberia forced labor camp.

I realize that war crimes were also conducted by Kosovars and other balcan nationalities, but they were fighting back after Milosovioc started his ethnic cleansing campaign, his war against anybody who didn't want to obey to his sick dream...
(Willi Pfaff, 19 December 2011 11:22)
--
Willi, please go back to watching CNN 24/7 instead of demonstrating your ignorance and racism here.
(Zoran, 19 December 2011 14:36)

Zoran,

Don't bother with this guy. His albanian lovers have completely brainwashed him full of KLA terrorist lies and propoganda. Love is blind, as they say.

I realize that war crimes were also conducted by Kosovars and other balcan nationalities, but they were fighting back after Milosovioc started his ethnic cleansing campaign, his war against anybody who didn't want to obey to his sick dream...
(Willi Pfaff, 19 December 2011 11:22)
--
Willi, please go back to watching CNN 24/7 instead of demonstrating your ignorance and racism here.

Is he starting to understand that the overwhelming majority of Kosovars do not ever want to be part of Serbia again? That this could only happen with another bloody war which would probably leave at least 100000 thousand people dear, Serbs as well as Kosovars? It still takes a bit more. Serbia has to face it's past, see what really happened , and not just point fingers at the others, and see itself as a victim. The victems of Milosovic were others, hundreds of thousends of people killed in the name of Serbia. I realize that war crimes were also conducted by Kosovars and other balcan nationalities, but they were fighting back after Milosovioc started his ethnic cleansing campaign, his war against anybody who didn't want to obey to his sick dream, and after his killing machine started to murder all these innocent people. Serbia, should not look at it in a nationlistic way, overlooking all the horrors it spread as well. It is sickening to hear people openly call for war, and help from some imaginary russian friends to free Kosovo. The same applies to the way some people on this site talk about Kosovars, simply sickening, and no way to convince the rest of the world that Serbia is a peace long country. You are not doing yourself any good by continuing this rhetoric. It looks as if Tadic as starting a reality check, but he still has a long way to go., and not just make these kind of comments outside Serbia, but also try to make the serbian public aware of this new reality.

Willi Pfaff, the main destabilizing factor for Yugoslavia from abroad was Germany advocating Croatia premature seccesion from Yugoslavia in the border of former YU Croatian republic.

Once again b92 get it right, there is no such country called Macedonia, it is a province of Greece. I think you might be referring to the nation of FYROM, which the Albanians have a large and an ever growing influence in

"I understand all countries, but the question arises as to who understands Serbia," he concluded.

I understand Serbia because it tells political fairy tails. Don't waste more time and money. You have many choices, either recognise officially Kosovo independence first and move forwared or get stuck with no prospect of Kosovo and EU.

"I understand all countries, but the question arises as to who understands Serbia," Tadic concluded.
Nobody can understand an entire nation that claims for sovereignty at one country based on the churches of 13th century and not based on the will of its people (kosovars). You put yourself in other position for 5 minutes and you will not understand by yourself this mythologist approach that you have. Imagine that someone claim sovereignty in Serbia based on the ruins of 6th century or Mosques of Ottoman Empire. To be a factor in the Balkan developments get out of Mythology and live in reality.

dori

The reality is that 1.7 million Kosovo Albanians live with 7 million Serbians on the territory of Serbia.

Maybe Serbia should overtake Albania because there are more Serbs than Albanians in the territory of the Balkans.

EA

Tadic knows that even if Serbia recognizes Kosovo's UDI that there still wouldn't be an EU membership for Serbia.

Therefore no EU for Kosovo Albanians.

Enjoy the black hole EA!

Nobody can understand an entire nation that claims for sovereignty at one country based on the churches of 13th century and not based on the will of its people (kosovars).
(dori tirana)
Serbia claims Kosovo not only based on the churches of 13th century, but also on the following facts:

1) Kosovo has been part of independent Serbia since 1912 officially
2) Up to 1960th - 1970th Kosovo had very large Serbian minority - up to 1/3
3) What is people's will? There are several algorithms of definition of people's will, not only simple majority as you seem to propose. For example of a region has several ethnic groups, it is logical to give veto power to each group over important decisions (such as independence)

(Willi Pfaff, 19 December 2011 11:22)
Tadic always understands that KAlbs don't want to be part of Serbia. Do you and Merkel in your turn understand that KSerbs don't want to be under Prishtina control? Do you understand that Prishtina can impose its control over Northern Kosovo only by force and/or ethnic cleansing, implemented by KFOR?

Do you understand that the Serbian politician didn't say that Serbia is ready to go to war to free Kosovo, but should be ready to prevent attacks and/or ethnic cleansing of KSerbs? It is very possible that such plans are being considered now by Merkel, Thaci and German leader of KFOR.

The Rambouillet accords envisioned a plan of autonomy for Kosovo within the the FRY which consisted of Serbia and Montenegro. In which Kosovo had its own govt and Serbia was unable to make laws restricting it, plus Kosovo would have broad rights and representation at the federal level.
(pss, 19 December 2011 11:23)
--
LOL! A nice bit of revisionism there. How about the fact that the Rambouillet accords would give KiM independence after 3 years (by referendum) and would have all of the then Yugoslavia occupied by NATO forces. That is the reason it was rejected. It was designed so that no country could accept it and lead to the bombings.

Only when those two unacceptable conditions were dropped, as they were in UNSCR1244, did Milosevic accept the terms. UNSCR1244 is much better than Rambouillet so we ended up in a stronger position. Thirteen years later and still no independence, thanks to Milosevic and Kostunica, but no thanks to Tadic and the sell-outs.

Then don't blame the K-Serbs, especially those in the north, if they do not wanna be in the black hole of your creation.
(lowe, 19 December 2011 12:42)

As long as you don't blaim albanians in Preshevo valley if they dont want to be a part of the big black hole called Serbia.


It's all about reciprocity.

Keep on looking!

Tung

an observation

I was born and raised in Canada.

Canada today is what my parents helped make it.

Unlike Serbia's Kosovo Albanians, my parents never moved to Canada for handouts and demanding that Canada set up a Serbian school.

You Albanians need to assimilate in your host countr instead of trying to take it over.

Today Greece, Macedonia, Montenegro, Italy and Serbia all have problems with their minority Albanian populations.

"Maybe Serbia should overtake Albania because there are more Serbs than Albanians in the territory of the Balkans.
(Another Canadian Serb,"

Oh wow, another brave Serb is thinking of more blood
(koko, 19 December 2011 12:13)
I don't think you are using the right description. After all you are talking about another Serb who has abandoned the homeland for a better life in the west. All the while wanting those that are forced to remain at home to suffer and be brave. They are the biggest proponents for Serbia to move closer to Russia but yet they remain firmly planted in the west enjoying the freedoms and benefits of the west.
But if you will notice these are the very ones advocating violence. I guess no life is too precious too satisfy the diasporia's sense of national pride is it. So Serbs in Serbia lay down your life so those who have that which you will never have can be proud!!
(an observation, 19 December 2011 12:47)

To Koko, Dori and Observation guy,

What is your (observation guy) interest in Kosovo and the Balkan)? Firstly, not sure of another canadian guy but I moved/fled croatia (did not abandon anyone !) in early 90's when Nazis and their supporters, Germans/NATO came to power.
When you speak of better life out here in the west, you must realize that one of seven people in USA live on the food stamps. 99% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the population. Finding a job in Canada/USA is extremly difficult for an immigrant, especially if you did not receive your education in canada. When you speak of benefits/freedoms out here in the west don't forget I enjoyed those same freedoms and much more living in the former yugoslavia!
Proud of my people, proud to be a serb and will continue to support K. Serbs for their right to live and prosper on the land that rightfully belonged to them....from love with canada....

-by the way I have nothing against hot K. albanian women!...after all, they are all serbs whos granfathers changed their name during ottomans...

Timber Wolf

Enjoy the black hole EA!
(Another Canadian Serb, 19 December 2011 11:04)


Rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia.

"Rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia.
(Demi, 19 December 2011 12:11)"

Then don't blame the K-Serbs, especially those in the north, if they do not wanna be in the black hole of your creation.

"I understand all countries, but the question arises as to who understands Serbia," Tadic concluded.
Nobody can understand an entire nation that claims for sovereignty at one country based on the churches of 13th century and not based on the will of its people (kosovars). You put yourself in other position for 5 minutes and you will not understand by yourself this mythologist approach that you have. Imagine that someone claim sovereignty in Serbia based on the ruins of 6th century or Mosques of Ottoman Empire. To be a factor in the Balkan developments get out of Mythology and live in reality.
(dori tirana, 19 December 2011 10:14)

Dori,

The reason we are going back to the 13th century is because Albanians have slowly driven out Serbs from Kosovo, too. You think that Milosevic is the only one to ever try and drive out the other race. You guys sided with the Ottomans to get rid of us, and then you sided with the Germans too. Your birth rate was an average of over 7 children per household while Serbian birth rate in Kosovo was much less. You grew exponentially and from our perspective made it difficult to live with (neighbours).

Ethnic cleansing does not always have to be so dramatic & instantaneous. Your people have tried to ethnically cleanse the Serbs for generations so don't act like your Albanian race are just victims bla bla. What is your explanation for our population in Kosovo decreasing from a majority since as far back as history goes???

Seriously. You are from Tirana and you're a patriotic Albanian caring for the Albanians who live in Serbia (Kosovo) and have cleansed us to a point where we are no longer the majority.

The KosovARS obviously do not want Serbia as their government because the majority is now Albanian. That is clear. But the reason why we bring up history is because we were the majority and don't believe the majority has changed under fair circumstances.

You're acting like we have no legitimate interests just because in the last 50 years you have increased the population exponentially.

A fact for Dori-Tirana

I just read about the banovinas in yu.
Vardar banovina: had 1.5mil people
499 where Muslim
Have in mind around 120k Turks
110k Albanians in Macedonia
50K Serb Muslims
so around 200k Albanian Muslims in kosovo
Macedonia had 900k people so kosovo had 600k people
Do the Math:
600K Kosovo
200k Albanians
means 400k Serbs and others
Then you had zeta banovina part around pec
another 100k people of which most Albanians
so I can conclude that the number was 50/50% Serb/Albanian in Kosovo 1931

Then my question

What gives the Albanians in Kosovo the right to claim the whole land for themselves and not allowing Serbs to live in their ancestral land?

The Rambouillet accords envisioned a plan of autonomy for Kosovo within the the FRY which consisted of Serbia and Montenegro. In which Kosovo had its own govt and Serbia was unable to make laws restricting it, plus Kosovo would have broad rights and representation at the federal level. Tha albanians did not like it but were willing to support it in exchange for western support to end the violence unleashed on them from Serbia. Serbia however, flat out rejected it and refused to consider such a proposal until after the UDI.
(pss)

At Rambouillete Serbia (YU) agreed to all those proposals of autonomy for Kosovo, YU didn't agree for NATO occupation and full freedom of movement of not only Kosovo but central Serbia as well. Have you read the text of Ramboulette accord?

Albanians agreed to it because they were promised they would have independence in several years.

Serbia in 1999: Belgrade looking for quick Kosovo solution

Serbia in 2000: Belgrade looking is working towards a Kosovo solution

Serbia in 2008: Kosovo declares independence but Belgrade still looking for alternatives to Kosovo solution

Serbia in December 2011: Belgrade continues to look for Kosovo solution

Serbia in 2015: Kosovo a fully fledged UN member and EU candidate, but Serbia still continues to look for Kosovo solution.

The Rambouillet accords envisioned a plan of autonomy for Kosovo within the the FRY which consisted of Serbia and Montenegro. In which Kosovo had its own govt and Serbia was unable to make laws restricting it, plus Kosovo would have broad rights and representation at the federal level. Tha albanians did not like it but were willing to support it in exchange for western support to end the violence unleashed on them from Serbia. Serbia however, flat out rejected it and refused to consider such a proposal until after the UDI. Now Serbia is saying they are willing to give Kosovo more than autonomy less than independence which is basically what Rambouillet provided.
The problem is now too much water has flown under the bridge. The Albanian govt would never accept such a step backward and it no longer has international support.

"Maybe Serbia should overtake Albania because there are more Serbs than Albanians in the territory of the Balkans.
(Another Canadian Serb,"

Oh wow, another brave Serb is thinking of more blood

Alright, i will fall for this ridiculous troll, maybe Canada should overtake Serbia because there are more Canadians than Balto-Slavs than in Serbia! than only you out of the Balkans will be in the same delusion as you... :)

Anyway no need to fear the Albanians, all they are doing is buying up cheap Serb land and opening non profit rehabilitation houses for all the Serb supporters such as Chinese, Mongolian deep African and Pakistanis to come to Serbia and get payed minimum wages to compete with the EU you do not want. I am guessing that you want to thank them (Albanians) for bringing all your supporters and sharing your bread and wealth with them.
Keep being a generous person and people, lol, I hope you do not learn much from Canada the western hypocrites who wanted to stop genocides in the Balkans.

Tadic states "I understand all countries, but the question arises as to who understands Serbia". Unfortunately Mr. Tadic in this Article is wobbling all over the place and maybe his problem is that he does not understand Serbia or its diaspora. Tadic could learn lessons from British Prime Minister David Cameron. Look after the sovereignty and the citizens of your own country first and last and then take on board requirements and requests of others because otherwise you will be used without guarantees. Old saying "put your own house is order first". Perhaps too many years under Communism has confused Mr. Tadic and his colleagues and they still have not learnt that they have rights. Europe is important to Serbia, but respect, identity which is a human right and sovereignty must exist in order to be a normal European. Many in the diaspora would like Mr. Tadic to simply stop working so hard to "understand all countries" and focus on the Republic of Serbia and its citizens and that is not a nationalist sin.

Do You suggest that Srbia was built up from Western Europe - ?

“All those who propose that Serbia should suspend its EU integration process, primarily because of Kosovo and Metohija, are in fact telling the citizens who will be born in the future and the young people of today that there will be less jobs and less possibilities to export Serbia's products,” Tadić underlined.

Comment - why should then Srbia manufacture for export when it can produce for the Serbians themselves.

We in Sweden will have our whole economy crushed if a War will ensue,
since our Economy are dependent on Export.

Arn.Sweden.

dori

The reality is that 1.7 million Kosovo Albanians live with 7 million Serbians on the territory of Serbia.

Maybe Serbia should overtake Albania because there are more Serbs than Albanians in the territory of the Balkans.
(Another Canadian Serb, 19 December 2011 10:54)

Canadian Serb read Dimitrije Tucović to understand why your nation is suffering now and why it sound strange to the others, also to record what happen when Serbia and Greece tries to undertake Albania.

"Maybe Serbia should overtake Albania because there are more Serbs than Albanians in the territory of the Balkans.
(Another Canadian Serb,"

Oh wow, another brave Serb is thinking of more blood
(koko, 19 December 2011 12:13)
I don't think you are using the right description. After all you are talking about another Serb who has abandoned the homeland for a better life in the west. All the while wanting those that are forced to remain at home to suffer and be brave. They are the biggest proponents for Serbia to move closer to Russia but yet they remain firmly planted in the west enjoying the freedoms and benefits of the west.
But if you will notice these are the very ones advocating violence. I guess no life is too precious too satisfy the diasporia's sense of national pride is it. So Serbs in Serbia lay down your life so those who have that which you will never have can be proud!!

You're acting like we have no legitimate interests just because in the last 50 years you have increased the population exponentially.
(trizo, 19 December 2011 13:18)
Trizo I don’t agree with a lot of your facts. But I’m doing what I suggested to you. For 5 minutes in my life I’m Trizo. Ok Albanian slowly with their demographic invasion gets Kosovo. At one certain point from 1981 they ask for “Kosovo Republic”. Certainly we cannot give to these separatists their rights. So what shall we do? We give the power to Milosevic, the strong man that know what to do with Albanians rebels. Yes Milosevic was the result of the desires of majority of Serbs versus KAlbanians. He accepted the mission and implemented it as you wished. The fate and balance of international power was not with the Serbia this time like during WWI. So Milosevic loose, Serbia loose. What shall we do now? We will react like all reasonable people in the earth, like Albanian in WWI, we will accept the fate even when is with us, even when is against us.
Now I’m Dori.
This “inferior Albanian” was reasonable one century before, and I can assure you that Albanian are as tough as you are. Be reasonable Trizo. You cannot do anything for Kosova, for decades at least. Get finished this story. You loose this time and badly.

Mr. Tadic is getting more and more inadequate..

Tadic, you can find the Kosovo solution behind the back of the sofa. It has been there all along.

I love it how Serbs pretend to be living between Turkmenistan and Russia, none of their neighbors matter on recognition, and the people who should judge in international circumstances should be people who hear more Serb lies than Albanian truths.

It is way more simple than that, Serbias neighbors do not recognize the milosetadovukodramavic Serbia. All the countries that are filled with Serb immigrants, who are getting fed and given employment do not recognize Serbia. The Serb phony dreams and crocodile tears will be wiped off once the International Space Station recognizes Kosovo. lol

Sorry to hear about Ill to have died, he loved international law freedom prosperity and Serbia, he hated Kosovo because no more Serbs could colonize i heard, any news?

"Arn.Sweden":

Im afraid there is no "we in Sweden" for you, no matter what you call yourself.

"Arn.Sweden", "Pippi Långstrump" ,"Madicken" or "Karlsson på taket" (take your pick), when the crisis arrives here you and the Romanians, Albs & K-Albs will enjoy a free ticket back to Balkan.I hope you had a good time while it lasted but that´s how it works so you better start to prepare yourself. God Jul! (Merry Christmas)

Don't ever stop looking.Who gives a damn if Macedonia reviews recognition.Once US recognizes a country then it's a done deal.Like it or not US runs the world and always will.Get over it.Feed your hungry people.

Now I’m Dori.
This “inferior Albanian” was reasonable one century before, and I can assure you that Albanian are as tough as you are. Be reasonable Trizo. You cannot do anything for Kosova, for decades at least. Get finished this story. You loose this time and badly.
(dori tirana, 19 December 2011 14:41)

I'm not trying to be condescending but I don't understand what you mean by saying "get finished this story, this time you lose badly"??

Anyway, I'll put myself into the shoes of a K.Alb.. but if he doesn't wear shoes then i'll just go barefoot ok?

So, I originate from Albania & emigrate to Kosovo in say 1200.. I realise that there is a large Serbian population which dominate the region of Kosovo. As I go to the local tourist information centre, the kind but beautiful Serbian woman shows me a few maps which illustrate 99% of the towns & municipalities have Serbian names. I leave the shop & return to my donkey.

I go back to Albania & tell my family that I have a dream to populate Kosovo with as many Albanians as possible and one day in the future my descendants will rename villages, towns & municipalities to better suit the Albanian population.

I venture back to Kosovo with all of my family and their family and their family's families + their family's family's family.

We start off on relatively good terms with the Serbs but unfortunately they (Serbs) do not want to give us free rents, discounted food and can you believe it? they want us to pay tax for the land here (I know, ridiculous).

We very quickly don't like these rules & quickly learn that if we multiply and live under the one roof the tax will be less per person :D winner!

The Ottomans arrive from Turkey and start war with the Serbs. They come with a different religion called "Islam" and tell all the inhabitants of Kosovo that any non muslim will have to pay tax or 'extra' tax while discounts and benefits will be given to those who convert under the name of Islam.

Well, I can quickly tell you that we jumped at this opportunity to evade tax and get something for nothing :D

We quickly tell the Ottomans that we don't really like the Serbs because they make us pay tax and won't let us claim sovereignty in villages throughout southern & western Kosovo, so we convert to Islam and take side with the Ottomans.

The Serbs obviously don't like this because they are losing a battle where they are severely outnumbered and the Albanians took a cheap shot against the Serbs by converting to Islam and joining the Turks to overthrow the Serbian government, seeing as the Albanians had no chance of doing this themselves (just like in today's times).

In return the Ottomans stuck by their word and rewarded the Albanians with parcels of land in Kosovo & instructed local Albanian authorities to govern districts.

*Fast forward 500 years*

By this time many Albanians have emigrated to their newly beloved KosovA & are ever increasing their population exponentially claiming more & more rights to the land. They have probably an equal ratio to the Serbs at this time and continue on their mission to gain complete control of Kosovo. Some revolts occur but even with these large numbers they cannot and never did defeat the Serbs in any way whatsoever.

The Ottomans are driven out & the Kosovo is divided up.

The Albanians then see another opportunity to gain more control by joining the fascist regime of Nazi Germany. They are somewhat successful and are still proud of their achievements even though none of which were attributed to their own uprisings but all ground made was at the hands of foreign occupiers.

Its 2011 & apparently history is not relevant because as soon as the Serbs mention history the Albanians just tell the Serbs that it's not important. The Albanians now have a majority population and will continue until all Serbs are exterminated from Kosovo & all profits from Serbian human organs have been sent electronically to the government in Pristina.

Wow, i've just come back from being in the "Albanians shoes", but I don't feel good... I feel like I was a cheat and all of my pride was based on theft & deceit, I used to be catholic but I converted to Islam for sinister motives.

God, thank God I'm back to being Serbian. I feel honest and real.

Kosovo has been part of independent Serbia since 1912 officially
(aaayyy, 19 December 2011 13:12)
Aaayyy do you know how Kosovo becomes part of Serbia on 1912. I suggest you to read Dimitrije Tucović. If you don’t have time I explain it to you with one phrase ‘Milosevic was in fashion and successful at that time”.

Listen to what Nigel Farage has to say about Serbia joining the EU -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNHuC_IE_X8

B92, why don't you interview Mr Tadic and ask him, whether the allegations made by Farage, are correct? Will he become a multi-millionaire if he succeeds in joining the EU? Perhaps the same question can be put to Nikolic?

To Koko, Dori and Observation guy,

What is your (observation guy) interest in Kosovo and the Balkan)? Firstly, not sure of another canadian guy but I moved/fled croatia (did not abandon anyone !) in early 90's when Nazis and their supporters, Germans/NATO came to power.
When you speak of better life out here in the west, you must realize that one of seven people in USA live on the food stamps. 99% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the population. Finding a job in Canada/USA is extremly difficult for an immigrant, especially if you did not receive your education in canada. When you speak of benefits/freedoms out here in the west don't forget I enjoyed those same freedoms and much more living in the former yugoslavia!
Proud of my people, proud to be a serb and will continue to support K. Serbs for their right to live and prosper on the land that rightfully belonged to them....from love with canada....

-by the way I have nothing against hot K. albanian women!...after all, they are all serbs whos granfathers changed their name during ottomans...

Timber Wolf
(Canadian Serb, 19 December 2011 17:16)

Canadian Serb First its not so hard to get a Job in US or Canada just need to be in right field no matter where you are educated. My wife graduated from Pristina university Electrical Engineering department and now she works in USA for GE. So do 20 Ex Yugoslavs ( Serbs, Croats Macedonians all educated in their own country).


You making comment about Albanian woman being ex Serbs makes a great point many people in Kosovo make ( a lot of Albanians were categorised as Serbs just because their religion at that time being Catholic or Orthodox so thank you for proving our point that yes we been here we did not come in some sip from outer space and you always have used propaganda as historical tool).

Also as per K-Albanins never got any special treatment from Serbs if you count special treatment being beaten, jailed, not allowed to speak your own language, poisoned in your school Sure special it was.

As long as you don't blaim albanians in Preshevo valley if they dont want to be a part of the big black hole called Serbia.

It's all about reciprocity.
(Demi, 19 December 2011 18:21)
--
Lets not forget the Serbs in Strpce and the Gorani in the south of the province. Next.

To Pierre -

(Pierre, 20 December 2011 09:14)

The People of Former East Germany is Slavs who has been Germanised,
The People of South Germany is of Celtic origin mixed with Slavs in Bavaria/Bayern whom has also been Germanised.

The People of Tyrol in Italy as well the People North of the PO River is of Celtic origin but has ben Italianised.

This as such.

Arn.sweden.

On the contrary, it is hardly reciprocity at all.

It is your OPINION that Serbia is a black hole, which others are free to agree or disagree, and so this becomes a debatable point.

It is however your own ADMISSION that "Kosova" IS a black hole from your earlier post. Which I have no reason to disagree with you since you must surely know "Kosova" so well.
(lowe, 20 December 2011 02:08)

You must got it wrong. I wrote in my post that rather be in an black whole than live in the same country as Serbia. I never said that Kosova was an black hole because it isn't. it was an small black hole in a big black hole during the 90's.

It is your opinion that Kosova is a black hole. That's not my opinion and not the opinion of the free world (western countrys).

Serbia will be a black hole if it dosen't recognize Kosova. An black hole located between EU countrys i the middle of europe. Similar to Kazaksthan or Azerbadjan :)

oh pls there is nothing to talk any more.
I also just read that albania will deny its citizen to declare their nationality . That means that you can only be albanian in the country Albania! At the same time Albanians DEMAND autonomy in neighbour countries and want even more. Where is the compromise?
Talking is pointless with people who want to take over our lands, Its up to tadic and other leader to decide will they defend kosovo! or go on with the Albanian/NWO plan independent Kosovo?

Tadic and other Serbs are frustrated .
They say how come that Macedonia can get way with laying of being ancient Macedonians,and Serbs can't get way with there laying of Kosova is there cradle.
Did Macedonians gave you any tip in twisting the history?

What two Germanies? - if you remember well, Prof.Tadic, they were comprised of the same people, same language, same culture, same history. Serbia and Kosovo are not and you know just as as everyone knows.
What South Tyrol? - They are a set of Austro-Italian complexity, which Kosovo is not a Serbian-Albanian complexity. It is Kosovo Albanian complexity, that's it. And you know it.
Northern Ireland? - No comment! Maybe you can sell these nonsense to your naive citizens, but not to the world. Cease daydreaming, sir!

Can somene explain to Tadic how politics works? He needs a simple message. And that simple message is that Serbia wants border changes because the rights of the Serbs in Kosovo are insufficient. He may indicate that he is open to other solutions. But that shouldn't keep him from his main message. It is useless to talk about extra autonomy if Pristina has already excluded that option: Tadic should be clear about that.

We have seen a similar pattern in the last two decades where Serbia swallows its main arguments and demands under international pressure. The result is always an incoherent story that is discarded internationally as the grumbling of some leftover nationalists.

Canadian Serb, 19 December 2011 17:16)
You say that 1 in 7 people in the US live on food stamps and make that like it is not a good thing for them. A family of 4 who qualifies for food stamps gets 600 dollars a month in free food to feed their family. My income which I will not disclose is many times over the level for food stamps and I purchase all the food for my family and it does not come to more than 600 a month. Now how much in food would you be able to give your family in Serbia if you were unemployed?
Not really familiar with the welfare system in Canada.
My issue is you have found refuge in the west, they took you in, You chose to go to the west not to Russia or China for a reason. Now you want to deny supposedly your brethren the same chances you had by having them turn against the west and to embrace a country that was not there for you. I find it ironic that in fleeing from NATO influx you chose a NATO country to flee to, this makes no sense.
My interest in the balkans is I spent time there and I want to see prosperity for all the people there. I do not want to see Serbs controlling Albanians or Albanians controlling Serbs. There is no future for Kosovo in Serbia, but through the Ahtisaari plan and with international supervision the Serbs in Kosovo have a chance if they would accept it. Should Serbia have accepted a similar plan for Kosovo I would have been in favor of that 7 years ago and not supported a UDI. But that was not an option then and I do not believe it is an option now and I bleieve the independence of Kosovo is irreversible. The issue of the Serbs inside of Kosovo is one that needs to be worked out between themselves, Pristina and the International community. I would have listed Serbia but I do not see their interest in the betterment of the lives for the Serbs in Kosovo. It is politically to their advantage for them to suffer.

"As long as you don't blaim albanians in Preshevo valley if they dont want to be a part of the big black hole called Serbia.


It's all about reciprocity.
(Demi, 19 December 2011 18:21)"

On the contrary, it is hardly reciprocity at all.

It is your OPINION that Serbia is a black hole, which others are free to agree or disagree, and so this becomes a debatable point.

It is however your own ADMISSION that "Kosova" IS a black hole from your earlier post. Which I have no reason to disagree with you since you must surely know "Kosova" so well.

I Quote -

"Arn.Sweden":

Im afraid there is no "we in Sweden" for you, no matter what you call yourself.

"Arn.Sweden", "Pippi Långstrump" ,"Madicken" or "Karlsson på taket" (take your pick), when the crisis arrives here you and the Romanians, Albs & K-Albs will enjoy a free ticket back to Balkan.I hope you had a good time while it lasted but that´s how it works so you better start to prepare yourself. God Jul! (Merry Christmas)
(Ove Nordenhag & Benny Bläck, 19 December 2011 11:59)

Comment -

I can assure you that i am Swedish as much as You are,
and I can also conclude that,
you are probably an Nazi in Legue with The Refugee Croatian Nazis in Sweden,
as i dont see your signature anywhere else than here.

And I do also know that the Nazis of Sweden has their Eyes on the Serbs,
as the Serbs is Their biggest obstacle and Foe.

By Looser !!!.

Arn.Sweden.

By the way, Demi, you may be interested to know how YOUR black holes are doing, income wise, compared with your wonderful paradise of "Kosova":

The World Bank reported the following GDP per capita for 2010:

Azerbaijan USD 5722
Kazakhstan USD 9136
Kosovo USD 3059

[link]
(lowe, 20 December 2011 14:42)


Well I see you compare Kosova with other countrys. Good to see that you have start to understand.


As for your GDP per capita list. Kosova has been independent for 4 years and is still not far from Serbia wich has been independent for almost 150 years. Serbia is located in the middle of europe and has a smaller GDP than Azerbadjan and Kazakhstan.


When Kosova will be independent for 150 years like Serbia then we can compare again. Or let's say in a period of 10-20 years from now we will be equal to the black hole called Serbia.

I don’t think I got you wrong.

On 19th Dec, Another Canadian Serb told EA to “Enjoy the black hole EA!”

To which you replied “Rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia”. So it seems to me that you are agreeing with what Another Canadian Serb was saying about Kosovo being in the black hole and that, moreover, you would rather be in this black hole than be under Serbia! And, as I told you already, I see no reason to disagree with you since you ought to know “Kosova” better.

As for your assertion now that Serbia will be a black hole if it doesn’t recognize “Kosova”, in the absence of convincing proof from you (which I doubt will be coming), I think we must all take what you claim with a rather big pinch of salt.
(lowe, 20 December 2011 13:36)


You must be young to not understand that you got me wrong.

I said that I rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia. This dosen't mean that I was talking about Kosova. The canadian serb diden't refer to Kosovo either. Maybee he did but it diden't stand so in his post. I wrelly mean an real black hole in the wood's!


As for your wanting proof that Serbia will be an black hole if it dosen't recognize Kosova. I am sorry that you cannot figure that out your self. You president proved this in the article we are commenting. If not an member of EU Serbia will have it hard in the future. Much harder when it will be surronded by EU countrys.

And Serbia will not get EU membership without recognizing Kosova that's a fact.

this man is a person from the past, already. there is in fact nothing progressive he could say or do - except to step down and let others do the job.

Tadic will be remembered as an obstacle to KiM-liberation and a naive servant of foreign interests.

time for him to resign.

The World Bank reported the following GDP per capita for 2010:

Azerbaijan USD 5722
Kazakhstan USD 9136
Kosovo USD 3059

[link]
(lowe, 20 December 2011 14:42)

I'm guessing these figures are GDP (nominal) as opposed to GDP (PPP)?

Also I like the way you cherry picked Kazakhstan from central Asia to compare with Kosovo. Why didn't you pick Kyrgyzstan which has a GDP (nominal) per capita of 860 according to the World Bank in 2010?

And I like the way you cherry picked Azerbaijan from the Caucasus region. Why didn't you pick Armenia which has a GDP (nominal) per capita of 2,996 according to the World Bank in 2010?

Anyway, yes Kosovo has a low GDP (nominal) per capita, but compare it to 2006.

Azerbaijan USD 3,826
Kazakhstan USD 6,868
Kosovo USD 1,522

Kosovo has had a bigger growth percent wise than the other two.

Also compare their unemployment rates.

Azerbaijan 1.2% Unemployed (2004)
Kazakhstan 8% Unemployed (2004)
Kosovo 60% Unemployed (2006)



Azerbaijan 6% Unemployed (2009)
Kazakhstan 6.1% Unemployed (2010)
Kosovo 40% Unemployed (2010)

Kosovo has also had the best improvement in employment figures, Azerbaijan's unemployment has got worse.

This is like Bosnia not recognizing 'republika srpska', and saying that we are still looking for a solution.

“You must got it wrong. I wrote in my post that rather be in an black whole than live in the same country as Serbia. I never said that Kosova was an black hole because it isn't. it was an small black hole in a big black hole during the 90's.

It is your opinion that Kosova is a black hole. That's not my opinion and not the opinion of the free world (western countrys).

Serbia will be a black hole if it dosen't recognize Kosova. An black hole located between EU countrys i the middle of europe. Similar to Kazaksthan or Azerbadjan :)
(Demi, 20 December 2011 11:29)”

I don’t think I got you wrong.

On 19th Dec, Another Canadian Serb told EA to “Enjoy the black hole EA!”

To which you replied “Rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia”. So it seems to me that you are agreeing with what Another Canadian Serb was saying about Kosovo being in the black hole and that, moreover, you would rather be in this black hole than be under Serbia! And, as I told you already, I see no reason to disagree with you since you ought to know “Kosova” better.

As for your assertion now that Serbia will be a black hole if it doesn’t recognize “Kosova”, in the absence of convincing proof from you (which I doubt will be coming), I think we must all take what you claim with a rather big pinch of salt.

You chose to go to the west not to Russia or China for a reason. Now you want to deny supposedly your brethren the same chances you had by having them turn against the west and to embrace a country that was not there for you. I find it ironic that in fleeing from NATO influx you chose a NATO country to flee to, this makes no sense.
(an observation, 20 December 2011 08:32)

Wrong, wrong, and again, wrong.

Are you forgetting that many of our forefathers were 'prisoners of war'????

Do you think my family 'chose' to leave?? Do you think my Grandfather 'chose' to leave Serbia??? Do you think he 'chose' to not see his parents ever again??? Do you think he 'chose' to have spend 6 years in a Nazi concentration camp & 5 years in a 'displaced persons' camp'???

Perhaps this might be an "observation" worth considering before you start calling us Serbs living abroad hypocrites! I go back to Serbia as much as possible because I love it there & no place can compare & already I'm making plans to build a house there.

Hope you can admit that your observations are only knee deep.

"An black hole located between EU countrys i the middle of europe. Similar to Kazaksthan or Azerbadjan :)
(Demi, 20 December 2011 11:29)”

By the way, Demi, you may be interested to know how YOUR black holes are doing, income wise, compared with your wonderful paradise of "Kosova":

The World Bank reported the following GDP per capita for 2010:

Azerbaijan USD 5722
Kazakhstan USD 9136
Kosovo USD 3059

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD

Should Serbia have accepted a similar plan for Kosovo I would have been in favor of that 7 years ago and not supported a UDI.
(an observation)

What was a similar plan for Kosovo 7 years ago, who proposed it?

Typical Albanian mentality:

What South Tyrol? - They are a set of Austro-Italian complexity, which Kosovo is not a Serbian-Albanian complexity. It is Kosovo Albanian complexity, that's it.
(Pierre)

Do you think my family 'chose' to leave?? Do you think my Grandfather 'chose' to leave Serbia??? Do you think he 'chose' to not see his parents ever again??? Do you think he 'chose' to have spend 6 years in a Nazi concentration camp & 5 years in a 'displaced persons' camp'???
(trizo, 20 December 2011 13:23)

I really sympathize... my family also 'chose' to leave its house and go to Siberia. my Grandfather 'chose' to leave its country. He 'chose' to not see his parents ever again. He 'chose' to have spend 6 years in a Soviet concentration camp & 5 years in a Siberia forced labor camp.

(Ian, UK, 20 December 2011 20:36)
In defense of lowe, he was only listing the countries that Demi had listed.
However, if you look at the whole report it uncovers more.
1st. Kosovo is listed as a country separate from Serbia.
2nd. Serbia had a significant more drop in GDP over last 2 years higher than Kosovo.
3rd. There are many established countries that have not had a similar 20 year history of Kosovo in much worse shape.

My biggest question is how after Serbia spent 10 years destroying all infrastructure, manufacturing, economy and education systems in Kosovo and then another 12 years since trying to block any progress in those arenas can they smugly stand there and criticize the position of Kosovo.
Kosovo went from 1990-1999 under Serbian control with an emphasis of destruction, to international control from 1999-2008+ under a phase more of stagnation than building. The Kosovo leadership has had less than 3 years to prove themselves against decades of Serbia. I think they have come along remarkably well under their present circumstances.

@Proud Albanian. Just because the US recognises a state then the whole world does too. If you don't mind me saying that is a little naive. The US has got itself in a bit of a mess in Kosovo. Without understanding the history of the region. However, I do think that both sides of the community should now be talking to each other to improve the lives of their populations. Stop point scoring and demonising the other side. You have to live with one another once the international community has gone. Kosovo, Serbia is your biggest neighbour engage with its people. Serbia accept that the majority of the population on the ground in Kosovo no longer wants to follow your lead. Europe has moved on from the dark days of conflict. Please do the same in this part of the region.

This is like Bosnia not recognizing 'republika srpska', and saying that we are still looking for a solution.
(Avni, 20 December 2011 03:21)

Bosnia doesn't recognize RS as independent state and says it will never do..

“I'm guessing these figures are GDP (nominal) as opposed to GDP (PPP)?

Also I like the way you cherry picked Kazakhstan from central Asia to compare with Kosovo. Why didn't you pick Kyrgyzstan which has a GDP (nominal) per capita of 860 according to the World Bank in 2010?

And I like the way you cherry picked Azerbaijan from the Caucasus region. Why didn't you pick Armenia which has a GDP (nominal) per capita of 2,996 according to the World Bank in 2010?

Anyway, yes Kosovo has a low GDP (nominal) per capita, but compare it to 2006.

Azerbaijan USD 3,826
Kazakhstan USD 6,868
Kosovo USD 1,522

Kosovo has had a bigger growth percent wise than the other two.

Also compare their unemployment rates.

Azerbaijan 1.2% Unemployed (2004)
Kazakhstan 8% Unemployed (2004)
Kosovo 60% Unemployed (2006)



Azerbaijan 6% Unemployed (2009)
Kazakhstan 6.1% Unemployed (2010)
Kosovo 40% Unemployed (2010)

Kosovo has also had the best improvement in employment figures, Azerbaijan's unemployment has got worse.
(Ian, UK, 20 December 2011 20:36)”

You just made a fool of yourself! If you had bothered to read my exchanges with Demi properly, you would easily see that it was DEMI, NOT ME, who “cherry pick” Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan. On 20 Dec, Demi wrote “An black hole located between EU countrys i the middle of europe. Similar to Kazaksthan or Azerbadjan”. I didn’t mention Armenia or Kyrgyzstan obviously because these were NOT Demi’s choice of countries and so would have been irrelevant to our exchanges.

I know you are just dying to find fault with me, but in this instance you cherry picked wrongly and ended up falling headlong into the black hole yourself about Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan!

I should also mention that a high growth rate itself doesn’t mean very much if that growth was taking place from a low base rate to begin with. China has fantastic growth rates too, but her per capita income is nowhere near the Yankees’ and so I wouldn’t be so quick to jump the gun and conclude therefore that the average Chinese are living better than the Yankees on the basis of growth rates alone.

“You must be young to not understand that you got me wrong.

I said that I rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia. This dosen't mean that I was talking about Kosova. The canadian serb diden't refer to Kosovo either. Maybee he did but it diden't stand so in his post. I wrelly mean an real black hole in the wood's!


As for your wanting proof that Serbia will be an black hole if it dosen't recognize Kosova. I am sorry that you cannot figure that out your self. You president proved this in the article we are commenting. If not an member of EU Serbia will have it hard in the future. Much harder when it will be surronded by EU countrys.

And Serbia will not get EU membership without recognizing Kosova that's a fact.
(Demi, 20 December 2011 19:31)”

If anyone got anything wrong here, it was definitely YOU!
Let me review the exchanges for your muddled mind’s benefit. On 19 December, Another Canadian Serb wrote:

“EA

Tadic knows that even if Serbia recognizes Kosovo's UDI that there still wouldn't be an EU membership for Serbia.

Therefore no EU for Kosovo Albanians.

Enjoy the black hole EA!
(Another Canadian Serb, 19 December 2011 11:04)”

Anyone can see (except you perhaps?) that Another Canadian Serb was talking about Kosovo and K-Albanians when he/she talked about the black hole!

Then you subsequently decided to join the exchanges between EA and Another Canadian Serb with the following post:

"Rather be in a black hole and independent from Serbia.
(Demi, 19 December 2011 12:11)"

I would think that in the normal communication in the English language, when you joined the discussions between EA and Another Canadian Serb over the black hole issue by stating that you would rather be in this black hole (without any proviso to indicate that you do not however consider Kosovo to be a black hole), it should be taken that you have accepted Another Canadian Serb’s interpretation of Kosovo being a black hole!

Of course I cannot figure out how Serbia would be a black hole if she did not recognize “Kosova”. That’s why I’m asking you for the proof – which you were not able to provide any clear and objective evidence – how did Tadic proved this????? Did he or the article provide compelling evidence about a black hole that Serbia is going to become in the future?????? By the way, he ain’t “You president” (sic) because I’m neither a Serb nor a Serbian citizen.

Finally, how is Serbia gonna “be surronded by EU countrys” (sic)?????? The last time I checked the atlas, Serbia has a state border with Bosnia and an administrative border with Kosovo. What makes you so sure Bosnia and Kosovo are both joining the EU anytime soon???? And Macedonia and Montenegro have barely started, and if the Turkish experience is any indication, they can expect a real long, long, long wait – are you sure the EU itself will still be around in its present form by then?

“Well I see you compare Kosova with other countrys. Good to see that you have start to understand.


As for your GDP per capita list. Kosova has been independent for 4 years and is still not far from Serbia wich has been independent for almost 150 years. Serbia is located in the middle of europe and has a smaller GDP than Azerbadjan and Kazakhstan.


When Kosova will be independent for 150 years like Serbia then we can compare again. Or let's say in a period of 10-20 years from now we will be equal to the black hole called Serbia.
(Demi, 20 December 2011 19:19)”

Oh, I missed your 2nd reply to me and so this is my 2nd reply to you.

I was comparing “Kosova” with those countries that YOU compared Serbia with ie. Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan. YOU called them black holes and yet they have far superior per capita GDPs (an objective measure to me) compared with “Kosova” – isn’t this a classic case of the pot (YOU and “Kosova”) calling the kettle black?

So Serbia has a smaller per capita GDP than these 2 countries ….. so what? Bottom line is that “Kosova”’s per capita GDP is barely 58% of Serbia’s. And so if Serbia is a black hole on the basis of per capita GDP and your subjective view, what would you call “Kosova”? Maybe a HUMONGOUS, MEGA black hole! Ha ha ha! Again the pot calling the kettle black!

And obviously history ain’t your forte. How can Serbia be “independent for 150 years” under the rule of Tito’s Yugoslavia????? Stop making up stories for goodness sakes! You only make yourself look so foolish!

"I really sympathize... my family also 'chose' to leave its house and go to Siberia. my Grandfather 'chose' to leave its country. He 'chose' to not see his parents ever again. He 'chose' to have spend 6 years in a Soviet concentration camp & 5 years in a Siberia forced labor camp.
(icj1, 21 December 2011 04:40) "

Your poor, poor Gramps! How he must have suffered at the hands of those so horrid Soviets! But methinks even that suffering must have been NOTHING compared with his suffering when YOU arrived in the family! Ha ha ha@!