Thursday, 24.11.2011.
09:52
Kosovo PM Hashim Thaci needs to know that by attacking Serbs in Kosovo he is also attacking Belgrade, Serbian Deputy PM Ivica Dačić told daily Press.
Izvor: Nela Sukara
IMAGE SOURCE
pre 12 godina
For example, offer Kosovo Albanians a veto right over changes to Serbia's Constitution (similarly to the veto right that Kosovo's Constitution offers to Kosovo Serbs).
(icj1, 27 November 2011 20:43)
==============================
Are you crazy? Might as well give you the keys to the presidential office.
pre 12 godina
Tell me, how do you think Serbia has not shown genuine interest in reaching a settlement? What else can they do? I am getting tired of you saying we haven't done all we can but you don't offer one thing that Serbia can do which has not been done yet.
You say there are many, but please offer us at least one possibility that has not been tried yet.
(Peggy, 27 November 2011 02:41)
For example, offer Kosovo Albanians the right to vote for Serbia's constitution;
For example, offer Kosovo Albanians a veto right over changes to Serbia's Constitution (similarly to the veto right that Kosovo's Constitution offers to Kosovo Serbs).
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Bgannon, all I can say is, You're dreaming.
You make it sound like Serbs have any power in coming to or implementing an agreement.
I truly believe that Serbs want an agreement and are more than ready to compromise, people and politicians but this is not a way way street. Albanians don't have any interest and that is Albanian population and their leadership. Well, not for as long as they are backed by America which has an interest in Kosovo.
So please stop dreaming that if only Serbia had guts to negotiate seriously it would happen.
Serbia has been totally taken out of the loop. Albanians are getting their directions from the US and nobody is listening to Serbia.
Tell me, how do you think Serbia has not shown genuine interest in reaching a settlement? What else can they do? I am getting tired of you saying we haven't done all we can but you don't offer one thing that Serbia can do which has not been done yet.
You say there are many, but please offer us at least one possibility that has not been tried yet.
pre 12 godina
Instead of balance of friendliness, love or balance of good neighbourly relations, it is "balance of of fear". That is what Serbia needs after loosing almost all and slipping into decandence in the last couple of decade. This guy is a raging lunatic.
pre 12 godina
What do you think possible solutions could be?
(aaayyy, 25 November 2011 22:40)
I couldn't fit all the potential solutions on one page, but we are familiar with most of the options.
But I'm certain that a pre-condition to any solution is to create some trust and a true desire for compromise and a realisation that things will only get worse the long everything drags on.
What would be the deciding factor would be in the Serbian / Kos Albanian public put pressure upon politicians to resolve this. All of a sudden the cowards would be ready to reach a deal, because they would no longer be afraid of being voted out. The (courageous) politicians that started the (peace) process in such a political environment would stand to benefit having put their necks on the line in the first place.
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of vested interests - related to crime for example who will lose business, but perhaps some of that fraternity will even see greater profits with a resolution to Kosovo.
This is what should happen, but it likely won't, because we have people who are afraid, unimaginative, settle back into the laziness of hatred etc. We also have outside factors that are obstructing more than helping, whether they know it or not. So in the end when we do have a final settlement it will be a mixture of what I outlined and of an outside influenced (or forced) solution.
The current negotiations do not look anything like a final settlement as we all know.
Peggy I don't have a magic wand solution. A solution is what is achieved through (detailed and hard fought) negotiation. We are familiar with most options. All we can do is to try to create the best possible conditions which I've tried to state, but currently we don't have those conditions.
I think that if Serbs and Kosovo Albanians agreed some kind of solution that didn't involve war then the US (and others) would be forced to support it. Of course in this theoretical scenario the US could try to obstruct and could easily succeed if they wanted. More likely that they would have their political favourites, whilst for example a more pro European (ie financed by) Kos Alb political party would support the solution. It is an important point that you make - there would have to be at least tacit backing from one outside political factor.
Zoran you should know by now not to set too much stall at a forum such as this one. But we are, would not say headed - we are there already, living in very difficult times and there is little sign that things will get better anytime soon.
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Well, if you ask me, I think WWIII has started.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 21:49)
Oh great... How if the fighting going ? (btw who is fighting :) )
pre 12 godina
the Chinese could invest...
(aaayyy, 25 November 2011 20:00)
I know that would make you happy, but the Chinese are not a charitable organization. Their money comes first for them, not you happiness. The Chinese are busy investing in more secure things, like US government debt. The Chinese, my friend, don't invest based on emotions, but based on risk and return.
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What do you think possible solutions could be?
(aaayyy, 25 November 2011 22:40)
One that is in accordance with Resolution 1244. No ?
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Why? Does Kosovo belong to NATO?
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 21:00)
Why? Does Kosovo belong to Serbia?
=======================
Of course it does. Kosovo is part of Serbia. Do you own an Atlas?
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Hell its not rocket science, this type of move is how conflicts are solved.
(bganon, 25 November 2011 20:11)
=========================
Why don't you just tell us what you think the solution is? How are you going to get through to the KLA who have absolutely no reason to negotiate?
Even if you convinced the Albanians who have zero control of what happens there how are you going to implement this new unity when the west clearly doesn't want it?
You make a wonderful speech, worthy of a Nobel Prize, just like Obama did and actually got that prize but just like with Obama, it was only a speech and nothing was sorted out and no peace achieved.
pre 12 godina
A pipe dream? Well, is it? Now think about it, do you really think that all diplomatic avenues have been explored? Do you really think that this current pathetic lot of politicians are capable of a compromise solution.
(bganon, 25 November 2011 20:11)
--
And that is the problem. The current lot of pathetic politicians do not have the capacity to make the right compromise. The sell-outs just want to sell-out. The Albanians just want it all and the US has too much of an ego to sit down and become a neutral facilitator.
One thing we can agree on is that the best option is a fair compromise and true reconciliation but I really think we have gone beyond the point of return. I hope that I am wrong though judging by the comments I read here I have my doubts.
Personally, I think the world is heading for some very difficult times and I don't base that on logic.
pre 12 godina
bganon,
There are multiple potential solutions to be explored.
Hell its not rocket science, this type of move is how conflicts are solved.
(bganon, 25 November 2011 20:11)
What do you think possible solutions could be?
pre 12 godina
Sure, “IF”… that says it all. Not sure though a cold mind would decide to invest on something that depends on such “IF” which has no prospect to be realized in the foreseeable future.
(icj1, 25 November 2011 18:42)
--
Well, if you ask me, I think WWIII has started.
pre 12 godina
People that are able to make clear, logical decisions are ones that are successful in achieving their aims Zoran.
Dreamers, the 'emotionally attatched' are pretty much doomed for a life of disappointment or self delusion, when their dreams don't come true.
Frankly I don't know how dreamers manage to spin (delude) themselves over and over about certain issues when we are all capable of remembering the past. Scratch that, I do know. Its involves deliberately forgetting or underplaying factors that would disturb some idea picture they are trying to paint.
How rational I am has nothing to do with my ethnic background, it was my own choice Zoran. I certainly have no need to parade patriotism in a forum such as this one, a kafana is a much more suitable place.
Besides, the national interest is the patriotic choice. The interest of all Serbian citizens is to improve life, increase employment, improve standard of health etc etc. I do not consider by the way the interests of Kosovo Serbs to be more or less important than other Serbs.
Who is complaining about the cost? Nobody is complaining. You know why? Because we don't know how much it costs. Yes, its a damn conspiracy by almost all political parties (including DS) to hide the current cost from (impoverished) Serbian citizens. Never mind the future cost if we do what you advocate - hang on for a couple of decades until the US (might) back down and Russia gains more influence.
Is it any wonder that nobody is complaining when nobody realises the cost? You think people won't complain because they have a spiritual attachment to Kosovo? You are speaking for yourself. Have you any idea of how bad the economic situation is with some families - they have barely enough money to put food on the table. Now if you ask those families if they would say rather receive food cupons for certain items, or that this (potential) money should go to pay professors a higher wage at Pristina University (Mitrovica) than they would be paid at Belgrade University. But thats just the tip of the iceberg both in terms of examples and money.
When people are suffering they are pretty quick to forget spiritual attachments when its a matter of survival.
I wouldn't say that we have the edge at all. In fact I'd say that Kosovo Albanians and Serbs are doomed to more suffering and stagnation for as long as this conflict / impasse is ongoing. And although we in Serbia proper are also suffering, but less than both Kos Albanians or Serbs, this also makes us losers. We continue to lose ground to countries we should be competing with like Croatia and slip towards Macedonian levels of economy. This means its in our own self interest to stop this waiting game.
I believe that people like you and myself who have an above average living standard have a responsiblity to these poor(er) people and have a responsibility to our fellow Serbians to let them realise the truth of the cost.
I agree with you that a solution lies in compromise, its fairly obvious that we can't get a deal in the near future. But its also obvious that we have been doing this wrong, just as we did in the past. Its time to cut the crap, its time to speak directly to Albanians, to talk about our common interest and not to be locked into some immature zero sum game.
A pipe dream? Well, is it? Now think about it, do you really think that all diplomatic avenues have been explored? Do you really think that this current pathetic lot of politicians are capable of a compromise solution.
The first step is goodwill and fostering some trust between Serbs and Albanians. Once we are on that treadmill then we can talk real neogotiations, but we need a genuine desire betwen Serbs and Albanians and not a perception that we are both being forced to the table.
It needs to be made as clear as crystal to Serbs and Albanians what they are losing by continuing the current impasse. There are multiple potential solutions to be explored.
Hell its not rocket science, this type of move is how conflicts are solved.
pre 12 godina
Sure, “IF”… that says it all. Not sure though a cold mind would decide to invest on something that depends on such “IF” which has no prospect to be realized in the foreseeable future.
(icj1, 25 November 2011 18:42)
the Chinese could invest...
pre 12 godina
And it is a waiting game. If negotiations do not produce a fair compromise and the geopolitical situation changes in Serbia's favour, which is what I expect, then we again have the edge. I wouldn't like to say what that means for KiM Albanians but I have an idea.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
_________
I too wait for the geopolictical situation to change in the complete favor of Albanians so we could rule the Ballkan peninsula just like Ilirians once did.
Cheers to my assimilated Illyrian brother:)
pre 12 godina
You really do seem to have a mechanical mind. Maybe you can answer this, are you a Serb? I have my doubts because you seem to lack the emotional attachment that one has to their nationality and culture.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Oh dear, you still don’t understand that only mechanical minds and cold reasoning brings you to the right decisions. Emotional attachment is good for deciding about your partner not for taking financial, economic, or political decisions. Financial, economic, or political decisions based on emotions have brought many countries to or close to ruin. For example we’ve heard in these forums that China should happily lose its lifetime savings, just for having the joy of causing some suffering to the Americans :)
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But yes, it is going to cost Serbia a lot to support those living in KiM but who's complaining?
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Of course, if the money of 7M should be wasted for the benefit of 0.07M, that’s fine :) There is only a small problem that Serbia is broke… For more information just click the link “Economic crisis in Serbia” on the right of this page.
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The emotional, historical and cultural attachment Serbians have to KiM justifies the means.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Of course, but the means are limited. Serbia has to decide whether to spend money that benefits 7M people of 0.07M people – money and emotions don’t go well together.
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But you tell me then, what do you propose? The sell-outs would prefer to abandon them and negotiate KiM for a rotten EU carrot, that is fairly obvious.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Whether Serbia gets the rotten EU carrot or not, does not get back KiM. Serbia can get back KiM when it convinces the KiM inhabitants that life with Serbia is much better than life independent from Serbia. History has many examples where one country has happily joined another country because of the prospect of better life. I’d be happy if the inhabitants of Kosovo were to decide in the future to join Serbia.
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And it is a waiting game. If negotiations do not produce a fair compromise and the geopolitical situation changes in Serbia's favour, which is what I expect, then we again have the edge. I wouldn't like to say what that means for KiM Albanians but I have an idea.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Sure, “IF”… that says it all. Not sure though a cold mind would decide to invest on something that depends on such “IF” which has no prospect to be realized in the foreseeable future.
pre 12 godina
In the end you are advocating a policy of waiting, of doing nothing until Russia gets more clout and the Serbian position grows stronger. How long should we wait 10 years, 20 years, or longer for example?
(bganon, 25 November 2011 14:59)
--
You really do seem to have a mechanical mind. Maybe you can answer this, are you a Serb? I have my doubts because you seem to lack the emotional attachment that one has to their nationality and culture.
As for your question, I am advocating defending the Serbs and attempting to negotiate a fair compromise with the Albanians. The compromise part looks like a lost cause simply because the Albanians have too many criminally minded "politicians" and the US has a huge ego. Both will be their downfall.
But yes, it is going to cost Serbia a lot to support those living in KiM but who's complaining? The emotional, historical and cultural attachment Serbians have to KiM justifies the means. But you tell me then, what do you propose? The sell-outs would prefer to abandon them and negotiate KiM for a rotten EU carrot, that is fairly obvious.
And it is a waiting game. If negotiations do not produce a fair compromise and the geopolitical situation changes in Serbia's favour, which is what I expect, then we again have the edge. I wouldn't like to say what that means for KiM Albanians but I have an idea.
pre 12 godina
Zoran yes obviously you are capable of putting something out there rationally, without the silliness. Although I still find your attempts at humour pretty cringworthy at times.
In the end you are advocating a policy of waiting, of doing nothing until Russia gets more clout and the Serbian position grows stronger. How long should we wait 10 years, 20 years, or longer for example?
What if in that time more Serbs leave Kosovo and by the time Russia has more influence (and the US less influence) there are no Serbs left in Kosovo? The only way to keep them there in any numbers as you know is to support them from the Serbian budget. How much will that cost over the waiting period? How much will be lost in terms of economic growth for example as a result of this waiting policy?
Yes, it is pretty easy to describe how things will nicely pan out in theory, but in life things rarely go like that.
pre 12 godina
"they were busy doing the same damn thing during the (earlier) balkan wars, and even before"
@...
If Serb dont' do this, Albania will be not recorded in histoty at all.
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"try again, i have no idea what it is you're wanting to say"
@Shpetim,
I see you are informed very good for the old history. Explain me please a little more about your leader George Maniaces?
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My leader? I don't have one, I don't even vote!!! What the hell are you talking about? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or something?
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I consider that all slavic states should help Serbs. We Slavs should be uniform in everything, in the politician, a science, culture.
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@Djed
try again, i have no idea what it is you're wanting to say
pre 12 godina
"Dacic is the incarnation of Milosevic,"
@Miri
Your comparison Dacic - Milosevic is a very bad comparison.
Why have not you written Dacic - Karadjordje.
pre 12 godina
@ Pristina
No more free human trafficking to the flea market. Time is over bro.
pre 12 godina
"some kind of reincarnation of Stefan Dusan."
@ Shpetim
re history of ancient Serbian Albo likes, a lot of back history mentions the Emperor Dusan. (1357yr.) On my part no question for albo for taht , he know history of Emperor Dusan, also not far back, you must know when albo came from Sicily in the Drach (March, 1043yr.) with the George Maniac. You tell me or any Albo how your leader George is went with the Greeks?
Do not touch the bear, the bear has an awkward paw.
pre 12 godina
Russians had/have obligations (at least moral ones) toward Abhazians and Ossetians who didn't want to seccede from the USSR as a part of Georgia.
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 21:17)
Seccede from the USSR ? What did it mean to seccede from something that did not exist ?!
Mate, don't you know that USSR was simply dissolved. With the exception of the 3 baltic states, nobody else secceded from the USSR prior to the its dissolution.
pre 12 godina
an and others
I wonder why the West doesn't want to search for a compromise? Tadic isn't warthirsty monster, why couldn't the West negotiate with him finding a compromise?
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 20:31)
aaayyy,
Why should the West compromise with Serbia since it was already settled 12 years ago when Serbia unconditionally surrendered to NATO. What the Serbs want is to re-negotiate UNSC Res.1244. Well, I have news for you Serb dreamers, it's not going to happen. Just be thankful that NATO didn't completely destroy Serbia in 1999.
pre 12 godina
Threats only encourage others to turn against you.
pre 12 godina
Ian and others
I wonder why the West doesn't want to search for a compromise? Tadic isn't warthirsty monster, why couldn't the West negotiate with him finding a compromise?
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 20:31)
The West is searching for compromise, that is why the EU has pressured Serbia into technical negotiations with Kosovo to improve things on the ground. It is a senior Serbian politician (Tadic cabinet minister) who has brought up the issue of war in the event of a failure of negotiations/ compromise not the West.
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Why? Does Kosovo belong to NATO?
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 21:00)
Why? Does Kosovo belong to Serbia? Surely Kosovo belongs to the people of Kosovo. It is a senior Serbian politician who is threatening war here. Please see the rest of my comment above.
Surely the last thing anyone wants is another war in a Balkans, but who is making the threats yet again? Then if this is the case and dreams are made true, who will play the victim yet again despite them making the threats in the first place? It really is just pathetic and sad. I wonder how much the upcoming elections have to do with this warmongering?
pre 12 godina
Dacic made the Kosovan Serbs to ask for Russian Citizenship and now he is going to ask people of Serbia to say that they are Russians too, and ask Russia to give a piece of pepper to everyone in Serbia which confirms a Russian citizenship.
This man should move to Russia as he does not belong in Balkans.
pre 12 godina
Less talk more action, put your money where your mouth is!!
pre 12 godina
To all Albanians threatening war - how are you going to beat Russia and Serbia without NATO when you failed last time to beat Serbia 1 on 1 and when KFOR just got beat back by Serb civilians at the baricades? And if you think NATO can back you again, then you are deluded. No more ''new world order''. Yeltsin, Clinton and Bush are gone.
(MikeC, 24 November 2011 16:52)
Before you write this post met an Albanian. If you have met an Albanian you will understand tha is no chance for Kosova, and if you want war, yes we have to discus witch part of Serbia pass to Kosova Preseva or Sandjak. Tell me mate. Before you make plans I suggest friendly to you to know what a real Albanian is.
pre 12 godina
Valon get REAL! We are NOT traditionally Christian people and certainly NOT us Dardanians. We gave our best men to Islamic conquests proudly. Skenderbeg was just one brief anomaly. Where is Europe to condemn this Daciqi? Where is USA?! They will sell us out for cheap energy from Russia! We need stop alienating our Muslim brothers. Theres NO EUROPEAN FUTURE for us. Time to switch sides like after Skanderbeg.
pre 12 godina
bganon, let me be clear. Given the current circumstances in KiM, Russia is providing sufficient support. They are at the correct distance (in terms of diplomacy) and they don't need to provide more for now. We can call on them at the appropriate times and they will be there.
Now on the other hand, the US moved close to Georgia and attempted to help it reclaim control of Ab and SO militarily. That ended up backfiring and made the situation worse as Russia and other countries then recognised Ab and SO as independent.
Russia doesn't need to get any closer to Serbia right now and provoke any kind of conflict that would surely make the Serbian position worse. However, as the situation evolves, so will Russian support. The nature of the current position by NATO, the EU and Albanians is not sustainable in the longer term and it will also backfire on them.
When Serbia's position gets stronger, so will Russian support. Now it is in Russia's interest to support Serbia for the simple fact that if it doesn't, we will be forced into NATO and work against them. They have a choice of supporting an ally or gaining an enemy. Pretty easy isn't it?
pre 12 godina
"We are taking the Muslim side in territorial dispute between traditionally Christian and traditionally Muslim peoples".
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 21:13)
The Albanians are traditionally Christian peoples. It has never been a matter of faith, as much as those radical orthodox priests and radical imams preach. It was all ways a conflict of ethnicity. This game of words to try and make Albanians seem less European wont work, Europe knows better.
pre 12 godina
"Why do Russians admire so much Putin's attempt to cripple Georgia? "
Russians had/have obligations (at least moral ones) toward Abhazians and Ossetians who didn't want to seccede from the USSR as a part of Georgia.
pre 12 godina
aaayyy
I do not have time for conspiracy theories. Christian nations recognized Kosovo to pacify the Muslims apparently. Yet, more Muslim countries support Serbia than acknowledge Kosovo. this stupid theory does not need a single brain cell wasted upon
pre 12 godina
In this event, NATO should go to war over Kosovo if necessary.
(Ian, UK, 24 November 2011 19:33)
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Why? Does Kosovo belong to NATO?
pre 12 godina
"I've heard an opinion that Christian world tries to sacrifize Serbia to Muslim world to improve relationship."
yes...i've heard that aliens landed in Roswell too. the important thing is to detach conspiracy from common sense.
(adriatik, 24 November 2011 20:07)
There is no conspiracy here, nobody tries to hide it. As for common sense - one of the motivations of Christian (traditionally) West was/is to send message to the Muslims "See, we are not against you, we are taking the Muslim side in territorial dispute between traditionally Christian and traditionally Muslim peoples".
Adriatik, sometimes you behave as if you were embodiment of the truth and wisdom. Be a little bit more modest and try to understand other people's POV.
pre 12 godina
"I have always tried to avoid these sweeping (racist) generalizations about serbia is this and that, serbia/serbs have always been this and that. but i have to say, i'm beginning to see things differently. yes, under that evil milosevic things were horrible, ugly, trashy, corrupt, with never ending rhetoric and blood-letting. Oh my god, we thought, we have to get rid of him, of this crazy, evil family, this perverse tito-wannabe (!), this stalinist, this nationalist-socialist, this old commie hack, whatever. "
=====================
Really Roberto!!!??? You have tried not to judge Serbia and not generalize?
Judging by the length of your post, you must be really rattled. You are seething. It must be because Serbs are getting so fed up with all your c*@p and something will have to happen to bring things to the way they should be.
pre 12 godina
exKFOR
There is zero doubt in my mind, that not only were you not part of KFOR, you have never EVER been in Kosovo. that though is something else. what i am dealing with here is a man of extreme ideology, in short, the Christian version of the Taliban. You can come here and generalize all you like, it only shows the racist mindset that inhabits you. good luck with that.
"I've heard an opinion that Christian world tries to sacrifize Serbia to Muslim world to improve relationship."
yes...i've heard that aliens landed in Roswell too. the important thing is to detach conspiracy from common sense.
pre 12 godina
Pathetic? I was mocking Albanians for there 1 on 1 loss to us in 1999 when Russia or NATO wasnt even involved. Come to think of it, we wont even need Russia on the ground now either just judging by how bad NATO got shunt down at the baricades by Serb civilians. Now THATS Pathetic!
pre 12 godina
These statements from this politician remind me of some monologue from a Sandzak leader some time ago, also stoking up the passions and frustrations of the people.
Sadly, such people say these things not for any reason other than they gain popularity. Why do Russians admire so much Putin's attempt to cripple Georgia?
It would be nice to say that people do not deserve such politicians, but would that not be letting the people off a bit lightly, whether in Novosibirsk, Novi Pazar or Visegrad??
Perhaps the best thing would be for all the peoples of the Balkans to have a common enemy again? Perhaps Gospodin Putin could help out??
pre 12 godina
Idiot mini milosevic what a big primordial mind ,we know your idiot logic blood drinker
and you have family educate violence and wars and your old school from your big papa slobodan milosevic judged for genocide in hag
pre 12 godina
Ian and others
I wonder why the West doesn't want to search for a compromise? Tadic isn't warthirsty monster, why couldn't the West negotiate with him finding a compromise?
pre 12 godina
In this event, NATO should go to war over Kosovo if necessary.
pre 12 godina
I want Ivica Dačić in the front line action with his pot belly leading the charge what do you say Ivica. What it is better to have 18 years old,s as canon folder leading the charge. Ivica will be in Belgrade doing the thinking and directing them and giving heck to the world with his big mouth.
pre 12 godina
A sick man in the head,a primitive Serb who is not satisfied with the Balkan wars and taking innocent people's lives.
pre 12 godina
--Dacic is the incarnation of Milosevic, the same evil sneaky fox that would walk over dead bodies for few more votes. His stupidity is unparalleled when he thinks that now is the time for another Milosevic in Serbia. As for you Serb patriotic diaspora, you are so full of it.(miri, 24 November 2011 16:49)--
thank you miri, as always. and others who are pointing out the very real dangerous implications of this politician. how naive to perceive this as just "funny serbian electioneering..." have you people been alive for the last few decades? does anyone remember the 90s? you think such threats as "War should not be ruled out" are jokes, or just empty rhetoric? sorry, but they are not.
Serbia is (technically) in europe -- yes, but then so is belarus. it doesn't mean that the country, much less govt, shares (progressive) european values. and sadly, it does not. those value are held by a minority, who certainly do not hold power in that country.
I have always tried to avoid these sweeping (racist) generalizations about serbia is this and that, serbia/serbs have always been this and that. but i have to say, i'm beginning to see things differently. yes, under that evil milosevic things were horrible, ugly, trashy, corrupt, with never ending rhetoric and blood-letting. Oh my god, we thought, we have to get rid of him, of this crazy, evil family, this perverse tito-wannabe (!), this stalinist, this nationalist-socialist, this old commie hack, whatever.
and finally, thousands and thousands of dead and wasted lives later, we got rid of him. but what has come in his place? under elections, under (what they call) democracy? it has come full circle. the rhetoric, the threats, the pretense that "wherever there are serbs..." all of the croatians who read of these events (not to mention of that 2-bit fascist do-dik) must surely be thinking: thank god for operation storm, or we'd be having the same damn scenario. and they'd be accurate.
we are warned not to hold these frozen views of countries, peoples -- look how germany has changed in the last 60 years, more or less. but dacic and company are making a very strong case that serbia can never be trusted, that they will always find a way to promote war and hatred in the balkans. "balkanization." "ethnic cleansing." it didn't start in the 90s, people. they were busy doing the same damn thing during the (earlier) balkan wars, and even before.
so think what you want about dacic, but just don't (falsely) minimize the implications.
BTW, i'm surprised no one has mentioned it: with all of this war rhetoric coming out of belgrade, we're bound to see thaci stay in power for another good decade. Mais non?
happy thanksgiving! robert-0 frisco
pre 12 godina
To all Albanians threatening war - how are you going to beat Russia and Serbia without NATO when you failed last time to beat Serbia 1 on 1 and when KFOR just got beat back by Serb civilians at the baricades? And if you think NATO can back you again, then you are deluded. No more ''new world order''. Yeltsin, Clinton and Bush are gone.
(MikeC, 24 November 2011 16:52)
You mock Kosovo because of their dependence on NATO for defense(as mandated by UNSC) but then you HAVE to use Russia in your threat against a people with no army. How pathethic can one get?
pre 12 godina
Hey Dacic to start war is not hard to win it is very hard far as I can remember since year 90 s you Serbs has not wine any war this time if you start will not stop until all Albanians are united which mean Serbia will no longer have same Borders it has now same time Vojvodina will be gone to, I love to see Serbia start one more war.
pre 12 godina
As far as I remember, you are also living somewhere in the West Empire. Are you just as dumb as all Westerners, if I follow your logic???
(Dean, 24 November 2011 16:57)
If i follow your logic i should beleive that citizenship and state are exactly the same thing.Dude of course not everyone in the British empire enjoyed great living standards,neither do the people in Kosovo as a western satilite entity.The only point of your existance geostrategically is that you are a base for the USA/Nato.I study global geopolitics and i can tell you that Kosovo is definatly not independant.But hey hardly is any other place in the Balkans.I remember seeing this interview of a man in Prishtina,among others who were all albanian,he clearly stated that the Prishtina government cannot do anything without the us.One should always be carefull with generalizing public opinion,but if that is what the common man/woman says,than that says it all.
pre 12 godina
Yet Another JS
Nothing left I guess but to wait and see. Allow me to tell you though, its over. You lost. Move on. All this rhetoric is just that, rhetoric. Better for mr Dačić to improve the life of ordinary Serbs rather than offering them some kind of reincarnation of Stefan Dusan. Sloba did the same and we all know how it ended
pre 12 godina
Democratic Party (DS) deputy leader Jelena Trivan told Press that our country should not fight for anything with war because the people would lose the battle.
“Serbia cannot afford itself a luxury to lose another generation in wars because there will be no Serbia then. Therefore we should fight all next battles with intelligence and diplomacy,” she said.
This "spokesperson" for Tadic is simply trying to keep the Serbs "in line" with the EU Elites (ie. Germany). The last thing the EU wants is for the Serbs to awaken and defend themselves. It is the duty of ANY soveriegn nation to defend themselves and their territory. While I agree that intelligence and diplomacy is always the first step in defending yourself, you cannot tell your adversary that you will only defend yourself with words- that's crazy talk....or should I say, "politicaleeze" for a certain (EU) agenda. And please tell Jelena Trivan that she should be defending Serb interests and not Brussels. Her comments are a disgrace and a lie- there will always be Serbs and Serbia!!! Kosovo is definitely worth not simply "giving up on"....this generation of Serbs needs to learn this from the past 30 generations of Serbs who defended Kosovo.
pre 12 godina
Shpetim, you must be on medication not to take your own advice about reality because no one is just talking any more. The reality is that recognitions have stopped, retractions have started, KFOR got beat back today at barricades by Serb civilians, your KPS is nowhere to be seen or herd and Russia is actually building an ''emergency centre'' an hour away from Mitrovica. War threats are not just rhetoric with all this in the background.
pre 12 godina
mr dacic, USA uses the diplomacy of carrot and stick, and USA possess them both!! My advice to you, not to test the USA again!
As for serbia it possess neither the stick nor the carrot!! Really your empty threats mean very little with the ordianry people!
So as the analyst said its simply for internal use!
P.S. mr dacic if you are ready to go to war, I am too!! But in fact neither you or I will be prepared to risk our lives and go that far. We both want glory but with the blood of others. It aint fair.
pre 12 godina
Dacic is a complete moron,this is pre-election rhetoric. But we should have sent MUP and Police into KiM years ago as authorized by 1244. Why we never did is beyond me.
pre 12 godina
Now, this is different! You Serbs show Barricades and A piece of Army Russia gave you. it is true that we don't possess enough equipment to fight you we neither want to go in war with Serbs, but we've realized that our neighbors are not as good as we expected you to be. I don't know why you keep dreaming of Kosovo's Territory, it has never been yours, and it will never be! I consider my self, Kosovo, as garden of Eden, where Devils come and eat fresh fruits and after that they say: "it was ours!" , how come! You should come up with an idea one day, that one thing that is not yours, will never be yours! Wake up, people! If you like Serbia to join EU and became much stronger economically and other stuff, wash your face with cold water and stop dreaming.
pre 12 godina
To all Serbian bloggers, it's easy to get your blood boiling with a few empty words and boring rhetoric from teh middle ages. To Mr Dacic and his hate-mongers, if it's war you want sir, don't worry that's what you'll get, all the way to Sumadija and Kalimegdan as a matter of fact!
pre 12 godina
To all Albanians threatening war - how are you going to beat Russia and Serbia without NATO when you failed last time to beat Serbia 1 on 1 and when KFOR just got beat back by Serb civilians at the baricades? And if you think NATO can back you again, then you are deluded. No more ''new world order''. Yeltsin, Clinton and Bush are gone.
pre 12 godina
Well,Millosevic said these words as well, we all know where it went. More blood, more victims and for what...for a God damn myth. don't you guys have some beers to drink, leave us alone!
pre 12 godina
I'm actually not looking forward to Serbia declaring war against Kosovar-Albanians,but if warfare does occur then Serbia should be prepared that some Albanians could be relentless in giving Serb troops an "ass-kicking" or "ass-whooping"( ass-whooping is at least a term used by some Americans or African-Americans) they'll never forget.The bottom line is that some Albanians can be aggressive if they're pushed around,in fact,I ain't surprised that some Albanians will not take crap from people or certain people.
pre 12 godina
Dacic is the incarnation of Milosevic, the same evil sneaky fox that would walk over dead bodies for few more votes. His stupidity is unparalleled when he thinks that now is the time for another Milosevic in Serbia. As for you Serb patriotic diaspora, you are so full of it.
pre 12 godina
You say Russia cannot reverse independence. What independence? How on earth are they independent? They are just dumb muscle for the west. They are on a tight leash and governed by the US.
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 12:55)
As far as I remember, you are also living somewhere in the West Empire. Are you just as dumb as all Westerners, if I follow your logic???
pre 12 godina
Our message is: you cant mess with us Serbs no more. Thaci will be lucky to end up like Haradinaj and Albanians will be lucky to get ''more than autonomy but less than independence''. We saw how the Sri Lankan state dealt with their own terrorist-seperatists two years ago. Albanians, are you ready to get real now?
pre 12 godina
Yeat Another JS
It is very easy to sell bravery from the comfort of your armchair. The louder the threats the more obvious the defeat. Serbia is like the boyfriend who got dumped and cannot find closure. He threatens, curses but in the end is forced to accept reality because he finds it will not change. Get over it, its a lot more healthy
pre 12 godina
Serbia should have done something ten years ago, instead of closing its eyes and let our brothers killed. This is a shame for me to see part of our heritage desacrated.
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 14:10)
Peggy Serbia has done ten years ago exactly what you are thinking. I don’t know what Angel of Serbia convince Milosevic to stop doing that, but if he doesn’t stopped that, today we were not discussing for Kosova but for Serbia. Do you catch it?
And if I was an Albanian that hates Serbs I would wish that another Milosevic comes in power at Serbia. What worries me is that kind of declarations collect votes of Serbs. Even if a little part of Serb voters supports these kinds of declarations this is a big problem for Serbia itself and for the entire region.
pre 12 godina
This time we cannot expect Russia to abandon Serbs or the same response from NATO as last time. It is a different world. A short war is probably inevitable judging by the ''emergency centre'' the Russians are building near Nis.
pre 12 godina
Unfortunately BILL,this ''man'' is nothing but an average Serb.This is how in reality,90% of Serbs think and feel,despite their ''peaceful'' rhetoric.
(Dean, 24 November 2011 14:07)
THE USA actually turned similair rhetoric into law, for something that was a hypothetical. Google Hague Invasion Act. Now they will leave no stone unturned to protect their own including taking out the International Court of Justice if need be. Everyone can be the same. Billy you made an oopsy.
In that light I think there is justification for the liberation of Serbian territory particually when you take into account the silent murder and cleansing of the Serbian,Roma,Circassian,Albanian etc population that has baltantly occured and occuring over the past decade. Thaci the animal and his criminal gangs need to be liquidated, this would not be an operation against the innocent people of Kosovo-Metohija, but a professional operation by a mature and capable army against the handcuffs these evil cohorts place on society.
Good Luck understanding.
pre 12 godina
Serbia should have done something ten years ago, instead of closing its eyes and let our brothers killed. This is a shame for me to see part of our heritage desacrated.
pre 12 godina
Well, this man should be kicked out of the serbian government immediatly. A statement like this one, would cause a huge uproar and people protesting against that person in any civilized country. I guess that shows the state of your country, and sorry to say that, the idiological framework most serbian people live in. With comments like that, and the obvious ignorance of the serbian public to such statements, any European persepctive for Serbia are going to be destroyed. War, or the threat of war, have no place in Europe.
(Bill, 24 November 2011 11:01)
Hey Billy, newslfash for you, Serbia is already IN Europe. We don't want to be in your moraly and financially bankrupt EU - the way things are going it may not even survive until Christmas. While I don't like Dacic as I think he is just saying this to get votes, I agree that military force has to be on the table to protect your sovereign borders, that is what any normal country would do. So yes, please take your EU membership and stick it, we don't want to be Germans' horse cleaners - we will let our neighbours do that :).
Cheers!!
pre 12 godina
Well, this man should be kicked out of the serbian government immediatly. A statement like this one, would cause a huge uproar and people protesting against that person in any civilized country. I guess that shows the state of your country, and sorry to say that, the idiological framework most serbian people live in. With comments like that, and the obvious ignorance of the serbian public to such statements, any European persepctive for Serbia are going to be destroyed. War, or the threat of war, have no place in Europe.
(Bill, 24 November 2011 11:01)
Unfortunately BILL,this ''man'' is nothing but an average Serb.This is how in reality,90% of Serbs think and feel,despite their ''peaceful'' rhetoric.
Therefore Albanians should be ready 4 a possible confrontation.
I am not saying in the weeks/months 2 come,but within few years.The ''good'' and ''bad'' news is that,this time there will be more countries involved,especially if economic situation in Europe deteriorate any further.
However,ALBANIANS have 2 be prepared.
pre 12 godina
Bring it on. it's not year 98 - 99 anymore.
pre 12 godina
the crucial passage is what Lazanski says:
"If NATO does not want to go over the barricades by force, what would happen if Serbia set a clear line regarding some other issues as well?"
This makes very clear that what Dacic says is to be treated very seriously by the authorities in Prishtina.
It is obvious that Serbia has blackmailed NATO with war in north if it tries to take over barricades by force.
Nato is way too busy with Iran and perhaps Syria not to speak about the unfinished job A-stan and Iraq.
Thus, NATO says- let's keep the status-quo, I'm not going to creat myself problems for Kosova.
Who shoudl than reply to these Serbian concrete and reliable threats? Serbia has over 400 modern and upgraded tanks. And more of older versions, plus some surprises that is keeping in Nis in a joint military base with Russians.
It remains Kosova only. Well we all know that KSF has only 2,300 lightly armed memebrs- thus easy job for the Serbian Army.
Now perhaps is the time that Kosova's authorities start to discuss seriously the defence issues with the alays and friends as Thaci and all Albanian politicians never forget to remind us.
Kreat reliable and professional defence structures.
Kosova needs to have same hardware from NATO as Serbia is having from Russia.
If we have backing of US I want to see Abrhamas 2 in our hands I want Leopard 2 and other serious stuff that will garantee my freedom.
All the rest is just cheap bluf and will be discovered by Serbia just as they did with the barrikades story and well explained by Lazanski:
"If NATO does not want to go over the barricades by force, what would happen if Serbia set a clear line regarding some other issues as well?"
pre 12 godina
Continue with the cheap talk Dacic. You have obviously calculated that you will steal some votes from DSS and SRS.
Anybody from that block that votes for you is an idiot. In fact anybody from any block that votes for you is an idiot. Once upon a time I had begun to shake off my SPS phobia - I recognise that it is necessary to have a centre left party in the political system.
But SPS continues to go for cheap populist tricks rather than support democratic socialist policies.
Now go back to rattling that sabre, just remember that we all know that rattling it is all you will be doing.
pre 12 godina
Since Kosovo has no army and is not allowed to have an army, there's no way Thaci can start an armed assault (though the might wish it). Besides that, I'm sure he learned the last lesson. KFOR is prepared, too.
(Analyst, 24 November 2011 11:06)
Exactly, the reason for all the rhetoric and chest thumping. He knows that Thaci does not have the capabilities to "attack" Serbs, as Kfor is in charge of security of the country and Kosovo neither has the manpower nor equipment to wage a war. Notice he is not threatening Kfor at all.
It is like if the some US politician warning Cuba if they fire Nuclear missiles at the US we will will send in our forces.(In case anyone is clueless Cuba has no nukes).
His speech is no more than Nikolics hunger strike. A safe way to stimulate emotions and try and convince(fool) the locals that HE is a true leader.
pre 12 godina
Talking about war is the last thing Serbs should do as long as Bondsteel exists and Bill Clinton has a statue in Pristina; all of the province might be lost forever. Dacic seems to forget that Albanians are still succesfull in playing the helpless victim. A favourable solution for Serbia concerning Kosovo simply doesn't exist; they'd better work towards the smallest loss possible. With the Serb enclaves, Presevo and the recognition of 'Kosova', Serbia does have some spare change to negotiate over parts of the province that really matter to Serbs. The claim on the entire province still would change nothing about nearly 2 million Albanians living there that Serbia shouldn't want within its borders. In short: accept some loss and partition...
pre 12 godina
serbian have lost 2Generation of young solders if they go in war again and loos nother Generation then serbia is goin to be like a driver driving car on empty gastank if any budy now what i'mean
so the best is stay away
pre 12 godina
(Analyst, 24 November 2011 11:06)
Who said that prishtina can't have a army? We albanians have a corrupt goverment in prishtina
Wich makes people poor, poor and poor. If you had Albin Kurti as primeminister the Belgrad attitude towards prishtina would be diffrend.
And Albin Kurti's attitude towards Ivica's statement about war would be like.
" Ok start a war!, Talk is cheap, put in work is difficult"
pre 12 godina
This guy is full of sh.....say in England. Does he really think that Thaci is scared after his comments? REST ASSURED NOT. In Kosovo there is a European vision for the future. Kosovo's independence is recognised by the overwhelming majority of the EU countries, USA and others. In northern Kosovo there are international forces and as long as they are there they are guarantor of Kosovo independence. You can scream all day "status neutral" but that is not the case.
pre 12 godina
I guess certain things never change. The rich get richer, the poor become poorer and Dacic has obviously lost the plot completely and has gone barking mad in a desperate attempt to cling to power by beating the Kosova drum again. Honestly folks, we've been here before, remember Solobo's hate speech in '89 at Fushe Kosove and the pathetic, boring nationalis SPS rhetoric that followed in the 90s? No change whatsoever.
The solution is simple people: recognize Kosova now, exchange territories (North Kosova goes to Serbia, East Kosova goes to Kosova). End Of.
pre 12 godina
Well, this man should be kicked out of the serbian government immediatly. A statement like this one, would cause a huge uproar and people protesting against that person in any civilized country. I guess that shows the state of your country, and sorry to say that, the idiological framework most serbian people live in. With comments like that, and the obvious ignorance of the serbian public to such statements, any European persepctive for Serbia are going to be destroyed. War, or the threat of war, have no place in Europe.
pre 12 godina
Since Kosovo has no army and is not allowed to have an army, there's no way Thaci can start an armed assault (though the might wish it). Besides that, I'm sure he learned the last lesson. KFOR is prepared, too.
pre 12 godina
what you are going to fight is a battle that you already lost. why am i ready this news anyway, its just to funny
pre 12 godina
"Political analyst Milan Nikolić also thinks that calls for the use of military force are a part of the international politics, but that Dačić’s statement is directed at the Serbian public."
After thinking through this issue thoroughly I agree with the statement above. Dacic knows the people are disappointed with the way things are going for the Tadic administration. The Danish EU-representation clearly stated there will be no progress for Serbia towards EU for the next 6 months. Then these tries of hostile take-over of the northern Kosovo customs. It is time for a change in the rhetoric. But I am still 100% sure of that this will NOT lead to another war as long as NATO is still in Kosovo. After that it will depend on if a successful agreement has been reached between Belgrade and Pristina by then.
pre 12 godina
As Stefanovic said a couple of days ago, the Albanians were given everything. This is the way EU wants it to be and hence diplomacy will not succeed. Diplomacy has already failed.
pre 12 godina
The military industry here in Italy is cheering up for this wonderfoul development...finally a new war in the Balkans is coming...Finmeccanica will reward Mr.Dacic with a medal...
pre 12 godina
"Oh hear we go again!
Lets just see how many unemployed & uneducated albanians will come here and start posting the usual rubbish about Serbs being war mongers
(Predrag"
So this is not a call for Serb ultra extremists to continue their destruction from the 90's?
Even if it is for the "elections" apparently that is the message that the "brave" Serbs want to hear no?
pre 12 godina
You lost, get the hell over it and move on with your lives
pre 12 godina
“We should go to war over Kosovo if necessary” said Dacic.
Taci is not affraid from wars, far from it. Dacic just like his mentor, the mega criminal Milosevic, would be held responsible for all the consequences of that proclaimed war.
Remember, if you play with fire you may get burned.
pre 12 godina
Oh hear we go again!
Lets just see how many unemployed & uneducated albanians will come here and start posting the usual rubbish about Serbs being war mongers
pre 12 godina
Oh hear we go again!
Lets just see how many unemployed & uneducated albanians will come here and start posting the usual rubbish about Serbs being war mongers
pre 12 godina
As Stefanovic said a couple of days ago, the Albanians were given everything. This is the way EU wants it to be and hence diplomacy will not succeed. Diplomacy has already failed.
pre 12 godina
You lost, get the hell over it and move on with your lives
pre 12 godina
“We should go to war over Kosovo if necessary” said Dacic.
Taci is not affraid from wars, far from it. Dacic just like his mentor, the mega criminal Milosevic, would be held responsible for all the consequences of that proclaimed war.
Remember, if you play with fire you may get burned.
pre 12 godina
Continue with the cheap talk Dacic. You have obviously calculated that you will steal some votes from DSS and SRS.
Anybody from that block that votes for you is an idiot. In fact anybody from any block that votes for you is an idiot. Once upon a time I had begun to shake off my SPS phobia - I recognise that it is necessary to have a centre left party in the political system.
But SPS continues to go for cheap populist tricks rather than support democratic socialist policies.
Now go back to rattling that sabre, just remember that we all know that rattling it is all you will be doing.
pre 12 godina
Well, this man should be kicked out of the serbian government immediatly. A statement like this one, would cause a huge uproar and people protesting against that person in any civilized country. I guess that shows the state of your country, and sorry to say that, the idiological framework most serbian people live in. With comments like that, and the obvious ignorance of the serbian public to such statements, any European persepctive for Serbia are going to be destroyed. War, or the threat of war, have no place in Europe.
(Bill, 24 November 2011 11:01)
Hey Billy, newslfash for you, Serbia is already IN Europe. We don't want to be in your moraly and financially bankrupt EU - the way things are going it may not even survive until Christmas. While I don't like Dacic as I think he is just saying this to get votes, I agree that military force has to be on the table to protect your sovereign borders, that is what any normal country would do. So yes, please take your EU membership and stick it, we don't want to be Germans' horse cleaners - we will let our neighbours do that :).
Cheers!!
pre 12 godina
I guess certain things never change. The rich get richer, the poor become poorer and Dacic has obviously lost the plot completely and has gone barking mad in a desperate attempt to cling to power by beating the Kosova drum again. Honestly folks, we've been here before, remember Solobo's hate speech in '89 at Fushe Kosove and the pathetic, boring nationalis SPS rhetoric that followed in the 90s? No change whatsoever.
The solution is simple people: recognize Kosova now, exchange territories (North Kosova goes to Serbia, East Kosova goes to Kosova). End Of.
pre 12 godina
I want Ivica Dačić in the front line action with his pot belly leading the charge what do you say Ivica. What it is better to have 18 years old,s as canon folder leading the charge. Ivica will be in Belgrade doing the thinking and directing them and giving heck to the world with his big mouth.
pre 12 godina
Bring it on. it's not year 98 - 99 anymore.
pre 12 godina
what you are going to fight is a battle that you already lost. why am i ready this news anyway, its just to funny
pre 12 godina
This guy is full of sh.....say in England. Does he really think that Thaci is scared after his comments? REST ASSURED NOT. In Kosovo there is a European vision for the future. Kosovo's independence is recognised by the overwhelming majority of the EU countries, USA and others. In northern Kosovo there are international forces and as long as they are there they are guarantor of Kosovo independence. You can scream all day "status neutral" but that is not the case.
pre 12 godina
The military industry here in Italy is cheering up for this wonderfoul development...finally a new war in the Balkans is coming...Finmeccanica will reward Mr.Dacic with a medal...
pre 12 godina
Since Kosovo has no army and is not allowed to have an army, there's no way Thaci can start an armed assault (though the might wish it). Besides that, I'm sure he learned the last lesson. KFOR is prepared, too.
pre 12 godina
Serbia should have done something ten years ago, instead of closing its eyes and let our brothers killed. This is a shame for me to see part of our heritage desacrated.
pre 12 godina
You say Russia cannot reverse independence. What independence? How on earth are they independent? They are just dumb muscle for the west. They are on a tight leash and governed by the US.
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 12:55)
As far as I remember, you are also living somewhere in the West Empire. Are you just as dumb as all Westerners, if I follow your logic???
pre 12 godina
A sick man in the head,a primitive Serb who is not satisfied with the Balkan wars and taking innocent people's lives.
pre 12 godina
In this event, NATO should go to war over Kosovo if necessary.
pre 12 godina
"Political analyst Milan Nikolić also thinks that calls for the use of military force are a part of the international politics, but that Dačić’s statement is directed at the Serbian public."
After thinking through this issue thoroughly I agree with the statement above. Dacic knows the people are disappointed with the way things are going for the Tadic administration. The Danish EU-representation clearly stated there will be no progress for Serbia towards EU for the next 6 months. Then these tries of hostile take-over of the northern Kosovo customs. It is time for a change in the rhetoric. But I am still 100% sure of that this will NOT lead to another war as long as NATO is still in Kosovo. After that it will depend on if a successful agreement has been reached between Belgrade and Pristina by then.
pre 12 godina
Well, this man should be kicked out of the serbian government immediatly. A statement like this one, would cause a huge uproar and people protesting against that person in any civilized country. I guess that shows the state of your country, and sorry to say that, the idiological framework most serbian people live in. With comments like that, and the obvious ignorance of the serbian public to such statements, any European persepctive for Serbia are going to be destroyed. War, or the threat of war, have no place in Europe.
pre 12 godina
serbian have lost 2Generation of young solders if they go in war again and loos nother Generation then serbia is goin to be like a driver driving car on empty gastank if any budy now what i'mean
so the best is stay away
pre 12 godina
the crucial passage is what Lazanski says:
"If NATO does not want to go over the barricades by force, what would happen if Serbia set a clear line regarding some other issues as well?"
This makes very clear that what Dacic says is to be treated very seriously by the authorities in Prishtina.
It is obvious that Serbia has blackmailed NATO with war in north if it tries to take over barricades by force.
Nato is way too busy with Iran and perhaps Syria not to speak about the unfinished job A-stan and Iraq.
Thus, NATO says- let's keep the status-quo, I'm not going to creat myself problems for Kosova.
Who shoudl than reply to these Serbian concrete and reliable threats? Serbia has over 400 modern and upgraded tanks. And more of older versions, plus some surprises that is keeping in Nis in a joint military base with Russians.
It remains Kosova only. Well we all know that KSF has only 2,300 lightly armed memebrs- thus easy job for the Serbian Army.
Now perhaps is the time that Kosova's authorities start to discuss seriously the defence issues with the alays and friends as Thaci and all Albanian politicians never forget to remind us.
Kreat reliable and professional defence structures.
Kosova needs to have same hardware from NATO as Serbia is having from Russia.
If we have backing of US I want to see Abrhamas 2 in our hands I want Leopard 2 and other serious stuff that will garantee my freedom.
All the rest is just cheap bluf and will be discovered by Serbia just as they did with the barrikades story and well explained by Lazanski:
"If NATO does not want to go over the barricades by force, what would happen if Serbia set a clear line regarding some other issues as well?"
pre 12 godina
Well, this man should be kicked out of the serbian government immediatly. A statement like this one, would cause a huge uproar and people protesting against that person in any civilized country. I guess that shows the state of your country, and sorry to say that, the idiological framework most serbian people live in. With comments like that, and the obvious ignorance of the serbian public to such statements, any European persepctive for Serbia are going to be destroyed. War, or the threat of war, have no place in Europe.
(Bill, 24 November 2011 11:01)
Unfortunately BILL,this ''man'' is nothing but an average Serb.This is how in reality,90% of Serbs think and feel,despite their ''peaceful'' rhetoric.
Therefore Albanians should be ready 4 a possible confrontation.
I am not saying in the weeks/months 2 come,but within few years.The ''good'' and ''bad'' news is that,this time there will be more countries involved,especially if economic situation in Europe deteriorate any further.
However,ALBANIANS have 2 be prepared.
pre 12 godina
Idiot mini milosevic what a big primordial mind ,we know your idiot logic blood drinker
and you have family educate violence and wars and your old school from your big papa slobodan milosevic judged for genocide in hag
pre 12 godina
To all Serbian bloggers, it's easy to get your blood boiling with a few empty words and boring rhetoric from teh middle ages. To Mr Dacic and his hate-mongers, if it's war you want sir, don't worry that's what you'll get, all the way to Sumadija and Kalimegdan as a matter of fact!
pre 12 godina
Dacic is the incarnation of Milosevic, the same evil sneaky fox that would walk over dead bodies for few more votes. His stupidity is unparalleled when he thinks that now is the time for another Milosevic in Serbia. As for you Serb patriotic diaspora, you are so full of it.
pre 12 godina
mr dacic, USA uses the diplomacy of carrot and stick, and USA possess them both!! My advice to you, not to test the USA again!
As for serbia it possess neither the stick nor the carrot!! Really your empty threats mean very little with the ordianry people!
So as the analyst said its simply for internal use!
P.S. mr dacic if you are ready to go to war, I am too!! But in fact neither you or I will be prepared to risk our lives and go that far. We both want glory but with the blood of others. It aint fair.
pre 12 godina
Well,Millosevic said these words as well, we all know where it went. More blood, more victims and for what...for a God damn myth. don't you guys have some beers to drink, leave us alone!
pre 12 godina
(Analyst, 24 November 2011 11:06)
Who said that prishtina can't have a army? We albanians have a corrupt goverment in prishtina
Wich makes people poor, poor and poor. If you had Albin Kurti as primeminister the Belgrad attitude towards prishtina would be diffrend.
And Albin Kurti's attitude towards Ivica's statement about war would be like.
" Ok start a war!, Talk is cheap, put in work is difficult"
pre 12 godina
Yeat Another JS
It is very easy to sell bravery from the comfort of your armchair. The louder the threats the more obvious the defeat. Serbia is like the boyfriend who got dumped and cannot find closure. He threatens, curses but in the end is forced to accept reality because he finds it will not change. Get over it, its a lot more healthy
pre 12 godina
Hey Dacic to start war is not hard to win it is very hard far as I can remember since year 90 s you Serbs has not wine any war this time if you start will not stop until all Albanians are united which mean Serbia will no longer have same Borders it has now same time Vojvodina will be gone to, I love to see Serbia start one more war.
pre 12 godina
--Dacic is the incarnation of Milosevic, the same evil sneaky fox that would walk over dead bodies for few more votes. His stupidity is unparalleled when he thinks that now is the time for another Milosevic in Serbia. As for you Serb patriotic diaspora, you are so full of it.(miri, 24 November 2011 16:49)--
thank you miri, as always. and others who are pointing out the very real dangerous implications of this politician. how naive to perceive this as just "funny serbian electioneering..." have you people been alive for the last few decades? does anyone remember the 90s? you think such threats as "War should not be ruled out" are jokes, or just empty rhetoric? sorry, but they are not.
Serbia is (technically) in europe -- yes, but then so is belarus. it doesn't mean that the country, much less govt, shares (progressive) european values. and sadly, it does not. those value are held by a minority, who certainly do not hold power in that country.
I have always tried to avoid these sweeping (racist) generalizations about serbia is this and that, serbia/serbs have always been this and that. but i have to say, i'm beginning to see things differently. yes, under that evil milosevic things were horrible, ugly, trashy, corrupt, with never ending rhetoric and blood-letting. Oh my god, we thought, we have to get rid of him, of this crazy, evil family, this perverse tito-wannabe (!), this stalinist, this nationalist-socialist, this old commie hack, whatever.
and finally, thousands and thousands of dead and wasted lives later, we got rid of him. but what has come in his place? under elections, under (what they call) democracy? it has come full circle. the rhetoric, the threats, the pretense that "wherever there are serbs..." all of the croatians who read of these events (not to mention of that 2-bit fascist do-dik) must surely be thinking: thank god for operation storm, or we'd be having the same damn scenario. and they'd be accurate.
we are warned not to hold these frozen views of countries, peoples -- look how germany has changed in the last 60 years, more or less. but dacic and company are making a very strong case that serbia can never be trusted, that they will always find a way to promote war and hatred in the balkans. "balkanization." "ethnic cleansing." it didn't start in the 90s, people. they were busy doing the same damn thing during the (earlier) balkan wars, and even before.
so think what you want about dacic, but just don't (falsely) minimize the implications.
BTW, i'm surprised no one has mentioned it: with all of this war rhetoric coming out of belgrade, we're bound to see thaci stay in power for another good decade. Mais non?
happy thanksgiving! robert-0 frisco
pre 12 godina
Now, this is different! You Serbs show Barricades and A piece of Army Russia gave you. it is true that we don't possess enough equipment to fight you we neither want to go in war with Serbs, but we've realized that our neighbors are not as good as we expected you to be. I don't know why you keep dreaming of Kosovo's Territory, it has never been yours, and it will never be! I consider my self, Kosovo, as garden of Eden, where Devils come and eat fresh fruits and after that they say: "it was ours!" , how come! You should come up with an idea one day, that one thing that is not yours, will never be yours! Wake up, people! If you like Serbia to join EU and became much stronger economically and other stuff, wash your face with cold water and stop dreaming.
pre 12 godina
"Oh hear we go again!
Lets just see how many unemployed & uneducated albanians will come here and start posting the usual rubbish about Serbs being war mongers
(Predrag"
So this is not a call for Serb ultra extremists to continue their destruction from the 90's?
Even if it is for the "elections" apparently that is the message that the "brave" Serbs want to hear no?
pre 12 godina
Since Kosovo has no army and is not allowed to have an army, there's no way Thaci can start an armed assault (though the might wish it). Besides that, I'm sure he learned the last lesson. KFOR is prepared, too.
(Analyst, 24 November 2011 11:06)
Exactly, the reason for all the rhetoric and chest thumping. He knows that Thaci does not have the capabilities to "attack" Serbs, as Kfor is in charge of security of the country and Kosovo neither has the manpower nor equipment to wage a war. Notice he is not threatening Kfor at all.
It is like if the some US politician warning Cuba if they fire Nuclear missiles at the US we will will send in our forces.(In case anyone is clueless Cuba has no nukes).
His speech is no more than Nikolics hunger strike. A safe way to stimulate emotions and try and convince(fool) the locals that HE is a true leader.
pre 12 godina
This time we cannot expect Russia to abandon Serbs or the same response from NATO as last time. It is a different world. A short war is probably inevitable judging by the ''emergency centre'' the Russians are building near Nis.
pre 12 godina
Democratic Party (DS) deputy leader Jelena Trivan told Press that our country should not fight for anything with war because the people would lose the battle.
“Serbia cannot afford itself a luxury to lose another generation in wars because there will be no Serbia then. Therefore we should fight all next battles with intelligence and diplomacy,” she said.
This "spokesperson" for Tadic is simply trying to keep the Serbs "in line" with the EU Elites (ie. Germany). The last thing the EU wants is for the Serbs to awaken and defend themselves. It is the duty of ANY soveriegn nation to defend themselves and their territory. While I agree that intelligence and diplomacy is always the first step in defending yourself, you cannot tell your adversary that you will only defend yourself with words- that's crazy talk....or should I say, "politicaleeze" for a certain (EU) agenda. And please tell Jelena Trivan that she should be defending Serb interests and not Brussels. Her comments are a disgrace and a lie- there will always be Serbs and Serbia!!! Kosovo is definitely worth not simply "giving up on"....this generation of Serbs needs to learn this from the past 30 generations of Serbs who defended Kosovo.
pre 12 godina
aaayyy
I do not have time for conspiracy theories. Christian nations recognized Kosovo to pacify the Muslims apparently. Yet, more Muslim countries support Serbia than acknowledge Kosovo. this stupid theory does not need a single brain cell wasted upon
pre 12 godina
Talking about war is the last thing Serbs should do as long as Bondsteel exists and Bill Clinton has a statue in Pristina; all of the province might be lost forever. Dacic seems to forget that Albanians are still succesfull in playing the helpless victim. A favourable solution for Serbia concerning Kosovo simply doesn't exist; they'd better work towards the smallest loss possible. With the Serb enclaves, Presevo and the recognition of 'Kosova', Serbia does have some spare change to negotiate over parts of the province that really matter to Serbs. The claim on the entire province still would change nothing about nearly 2 million Albanians living there that Serbia shouldn't want within its borders. In short: accept some loss and partition...
pre 12 godina
To all Albanians threatening war - how are you going to beat Russia and Serbia without NATO when you failed last time to beat Serbia 1 on 1 and when KFOR just got beat back by Serb civilians at the baricades? And if you think NATO can back you again, then you are deluded. No more ''new world order''. Yeltsin, Clinton and Bush are gone.
pre 12 godina
@ Pristina
No more free human trafficking to the flea market. Time is over bro.
pre 12 godina
Serbia should have done something ten years ago, instead of closing its eyes and let our brothers killed. This is a shame for me to see part of our heritage desacrated.
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 14:10)
Peggy Serbia has done ten years ago exactly what you are thinking. I don’t know what Angel of Serbia convince Milosevic to stop doing that, but if he doesn’t stopped that, today we were not discussing for Kosova but for Serbia. Do you catch it?
And if I was an Albanian that hates Serbs I would wish that another Milosevic comes in power at Serbia. What worries me is that kind of declarations collect votes of Serbs. Even if a little part of Serb voters supports these kinds of declarations this is a big problem for Serbia itself and for the entire region.
pre 12 godina
Our message is: you cant mess with us Serbs no more. Thaci will be lucky to end up like Haradinaj and Albanians will be lucky to get ''more than autonomy but less than independence''. We saw how the Sri Lankan state dealt with their own terrorist-seperatists two years ago. Albanians, are you ready to get real now?
pre 12 godina
Yet Another JS
Nothing left I guess but to wait and see. Allow me to tell you though, its over. You lost. Move on. All this rhetoric is just that, rhetoric. Better for mr Dačić to improve the life of ordinary Serbs rather than offering them some kind of reincarnation of Stefan Dusan. Sloba did the same and we all know how it ended
pre 12 godina
In this event, NATO should go to war over Kosovo if necessary.
(Ian, UK, 24 November 2011 19:33)
--------------
Why? Does Kosovo belong to NATO?
pre 12 godina
"We are taking the Muslim side in territorial dispute between traditionally Christian and traditionally Muslim peoples".
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 21:13)
The Albanians are traditionally Christian peoples. It has never been a matter of faith, as much as those radical orthodox priests and radical imams preach. It was all ways a conflict of ethnicity. This game of words to try and make Albanians seem less European wont work, Europe knows better.
pre 12 godina
Dacic is a complete moron,this is pre-election rhetoric. But we should have sent MUP and Police into KiM years ago as authorized by 1244. Why we never did is beyond me.
pre 12 godina
To all Albanians threatening war - how are you going to beat Russia and Serbia without NATO when you failed last time to beat Serbia 1 on 1 and when KFOR just got beat back by Serb civilians at the baricades? And if you think NATO can back you again, then you are deluded. No more ''new world order''. Yeltsin, Clinton and Bush are gone.
(MikeC, 24 November 2011 16:52)
You mock Kosovo because of their dependence on NATO for defense(as mandated by UNSC) but then you HAVE to use Russia in your threat against a people with no army. How pathethic can one get?
pre 12 godina
"I have always tried to avoid these sweeping (racist) generalizations about serbia is this and that, serbia/serbs have always been this and that. but i have to say, i'm beginning to see things differently. yes, under that evil milosevic things were horrible, ugly, trashy, corrupt, with never ending rhetoric and blood-letting. Oh my god, we thought, we have to get rid of him, of this crazy, evil family, this perverse tito-wannabe (!), this stalinist, this nationalist-socialist, this old commie hack, whatever. "
=====================
Really Roberto!!!??? You have tried not to judge Serbia and not generalize?
Judging by the length of your post, you must be really rattled. You are seething. It must be because Serbs are getting so fed up with all your c*@p and something will have to happen to bring things to the way they should be.
pre 12 godina
"Dacic is the incarnation of Milosevic,"
@Miri
Your comparison Dacic - Milosevic is a very bad comparison.
Why have not you written Dacic - Karadjordje.
pre 12 godina
Unfortunately BILL,this ''man'' is nothing but an average Serb.This is how in reality,90% of Serbs think and feel,despite their ''peaceful'' rhetoric.
(Dean, 24 November 2011 14:07)
THE USA actually turned similair rhetoric into law, for something that was a hypothetical. Google Hague Invasion Act. Now they will leave no stone unturned to protect their own including taking out the International Court of Justice if need be. Everyone can be the same. Billy you made an oopsy.
In that light I think there is justification for the liberation of Serbian territory particually when you take into account the silent murder and cleansing of the Serbian,Roma,Circassian,Albanian etc population that has baltantly occured and occuring over the past decade. Thaci the animal and his criminal gangs need to be liquidated, this would not be an operation against the innocent people of Kosovo-Metohija, but a professional operation by a mature and capable army against the handcuffs these evil cohorts place on society.
Good Luck understanding.
pre 12 godina
I'm actually not looking forward to Serbia declaring war against Kosovar-Albanians,but if warfare does occur then Serbia should be prepared that some Albanians could be relentless in giving Serb troops an "ass-kicking" or "ass-whooping"( ass-whooping is at least a term used by some Americans or African-Americans) they'll never forget.The bottom line is that some Albanians can be aggressive if they're pushed around,in fact,I ain't surprised that some Albanians will not take crap from people or certain people.
pre 12 godina
exKFOR
There is zero doubt in my mind, that not only were you not part of KFOR, you have never EVER been in Kosovo. that though is something else. what i am dealing with here is a man of extreme ideology, in short, the Christian version of the Taliban. You can come here and generalize all you like, it only shows the racist mindset that inhabits you. good luck with that.
"I've heard an opinion that Christian world tries to sacrifize Serbia to Muslim world to improve relationship."
yes...i've heard that aliens landed in Roswell too. the important thing is to detach conspiracy from common sense.
pre 12 godina
"some kind of reincarnation of Stefan Dusan."
@ Shpetim
re history of ancient Serbian Albo likes, a lot of back history mentions the Emperor Dusan. (1357yr.) On my part no question for albo for taht , he know history of Emperor Dusan, also not far back, you must know when albo came from Sicily in the Drach (March, 1043yr.) with the George Maniac. You tell me or any Albo how your leader George is went with the Greeks?
Do not touch the bear, the bear has an awkward paw.
pre 12 godina
Pathetic? I was mocking Albanians for there 1 on 1 loss to us in 1999 when Russia or NATO wasnt even involved. Come to think of it, we wont even need Russia on the ground now either just judging by how bad NATO got shunt down at the baricades by Serb civilians. Now THATS Pathetic!
pre 12 godina
I consider that all slavic states should help Serbs. We Slavs should be uniform in everything, in the politician, a science, culture.
pre 12 godina
"try again, i have no idea what it is you're wanting to say"
@Shpetim,
I see you are informed very good for the old history. Explain me please a little more about your leader George Maniaces?
pre 12 godina
People that are able to make clear, logical decisions are ones that are successful in achieving their aims Zoran.
Dreamers, the 'emotionally attatched' are pretty much doomed for a life of disappointment or self delusion, when their dreams don't come true.
Frankly I don't know how dreamers manage to spin (delude) themselves over and over about certain issues when we are all capable of remembering the past. Scratch that, I do know. Its involves deliberately forgetting or underplaying factors that would disturb some idea picture they are trying to paint.
How rational I am has nothing to do with my ethnic background, it was my own choice Zoran. I certainly have no need to parade patriotism in a forum such as this one, a kafana is a much more suitable place.
Besides, the national interest is the patriotic choice. The interest of all Serbian citizens is to improve life, increase employment, improve standard of health etc etc. I do not consider by the way the interests of Kosovo Serbs to be more or less important than other Serbs.
Who is complaining about the cost? Nobody is complaining. You know why? Because we don't know how much it costs. Yes, its a damn conspiracy by almost all political parties (including DS) to hide the current cost from (impoverished) Serbian citizens. Never mind the future cost if we do what you advocate - hang on for a couple of decades until the US (might) back down and Russia gains more influence.
Is it any wonder that nobody is complaining when nobody realises the cost? You think people won't complain because they have a spiritual attachment to Kosovo? You are speaking for yourself. Have you any idea of how bad the economic situation is with some families - they have barely enough money to put food on the table. Now if you ask those families if they would say rather receive food cupons for certain items, or that this (potential) money should go to pay professors a higher wage at Pristina University (Mitrovica) than they would be paid at Belgrade University. But thats just the tip of the iceberg both in terms of examples and money.
When people are suffering they are pretty quick to forget spiritual attachments when its a matter of survival.
I wouldn't say that we have the edge at all. In fact I'd say that Kosovo Albanians and Serbs are doomed to more suffering and stagnation for as long as this conflict / impasse is ongoing. And although we in Serbia proper are also suffering, but less than both Kos Albanians or Serbs, this also makes us losers. We continue to lose ground to countries we should be competing with like Croatia and slip towards Macedonian levels of economy. This means its in our own self interest to stop this waiting game.
I believe that people like you and myself who have an above average living standard have a responsiblity to these poor(er) people and have a responsibility to our fellow Serbians to let them realise the truth of the cost.
I agree with you that a solution lies in compromise, its fairly obvious that we can't get a deal in the near future. But its also obvious that we have been doing this wrong, just as we did in the past. Its time to cut the crap, its time to speak directly to Albanians, to talk about our common interest and not to be locked into some immature zero sum game.
A pipe dream? Well, is it? Now think about it, do you really think that all diplomatic avenues have been explored? Do you really think that this current pathetic lot of politicians are capable of a compromise solution.
The first step is goodwill and fostering some trust between Serbs and Albanians. Once we are on that treadmill then we can talk real neogotiations, but we need a genuine desire betwen Serbs and Albanians and not a perception that we are both being forced to the table.
It needs to be made as clear as crystal to Serbs and Albanians what they are losing by continuing the current impasse. There are multiple potential solutions to be explored.
Hell its not rocket science, this type of move is how conflicts are solved.
pre 12 godina
A pipe dream? Well, is it? Now think about it, do you really think that all diplomatic avenues have been explored? Do you really think that this current pathetic lot of politicians are capable of a compromise solution.
(bganon, 25 November 2011 20:11)
--
And that is the problem. The current lot of pathetic politicians do not have the capacity to make the right compromise. The sell-outs just want to sell-out. The Albanians just want it all and the US has too much of an ego to sit down and become a neutral facilitator.
One thing we can agree on is that the best option is a fair compromise and true reconciliation but I really think we have gone beyond the point of return. I hope that I am wrong though judging by the comments I read here I have my doubts.
Personally, I think the world is heading for some very difficult times and I don't base that on logic.
pre 12 godina
Shpetim, you must be on medication not to take your own advice about reality because no one is just talking any more. The reality is that recognitions have stopped, retractions have started, KFOR got beat back today at barricades by Serb civilians, your KPS is nowhere to be seen or herd and Russia is actually building an ''emergency centre'' an hour away from Mitrovica. War threats are not just rhetoric with all this in the background.
pre 12 godina
As far as I remember, you are also living somewhere in the West Empire. Are you just as dumb as all Westerners, if I follow your logic???
(Dean, 24 November 2011 16:57)
If i follow your logic i should beleive that citizenship and state are exactly the same thing.Dude of course not everyone in the British empire enjoyed great living standards,neither do the people in Kosovo as a western satilite entity.The only point of your existance geostrategically is that you are a base for the USA/Nato.I study global geopolitics and i can tell you that Kosovo is definatly not independant.But hey hardly is any other place in the Balkans.I remember seeing this interview of a man in Prishtina,among others who were all albanian,he clearly stated that the Prishtina government cannot do anything without the us.One should always be carefull with generalizing public opinion,but if that is what the common man/woman says,than that says it all.
pre 12 godina
Ian and others
I wonder why the West doesn't want to search for a compromise? Tadic isn't warthirsty monster, why couldn't the West negotiate with him finding a compromise?
pre 12 godina
"Why do Russians admire so much Putin's attempt to cripple Georgia? "
Russians had/have obligations (at least moral ones) toward Abhazians and Ossetians who didn't want to seccede from the USSR as a part of Georgia.
pre 12 godina
an and others
I wonder why the West doesn't want to search for a compromise? Tadic isn't warthirsty monster, why couldn't the West negotiate with him finding a compromise?
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 20:31)
aaayyy,
Why should the West compromise with Serbia since it was already settled 12 years ago when Serbia unconditionally surrendered to NATO. What the Serbs want is to re-negotiate UNSC Res.1244. Well, I have news for you Serb dreamers, it's not going to happen. Just be thankful that NATO didn't completely destroy Serbia in 1999.
pre 12 godina
Zoran yes obviously you are capable of putting something out there rationally, without the silliness. Although I still find your attempts at humour pretty cringworthy at times.
In the end you are advocating a policy of waiting, of doing nothing until Russia gets more clout and the Serbian position grows stronger. How long should we wait 10 years, 20 years, or longer for example?
What if in that time more Serbs leave Kosovo and by the time Russia has more influence (and the US less influence) there are no Serbs left in Kosovo? The only way to keep them there in any numbers as you know is to support them from the Serbian budget. How much will that cost over the waiting period? How much will be lost in terms of economic growth for example as a result of this waiting policy?
Yes, it is pretty easy to describe how things will nicely pan out in theory, but in life things rarely go like that.
pre 12 godina
Less talk more action, put your money where your mouth is!!
pre 12 godina
Ian and others
I wonder why the West doesn't want to search for a compromise? Tadic isn't warthirsty monster, why couldn't the West negotiate with him finding a compromise?
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 20:31)
The West is searching for compromise, that is why the EU has pressured Serbia into technical negotiations with Kosovo to improve things on the ground. It is a senior Serbian politician (Tadic cabinet minister) who has brought up the issue of war in the event of a failure of negotiations/ compromise not the West.
----------
Why? Does Kosovo belong to NATO?
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 21:00)
Why? Does Kosovo belong to Serbia? Surely Kosovo belongs to the people of Kosovo. It is a senior Serbian politician who is threatening war here. Please see the rest of my comment above.
Surely the last thing anyone wants is another war in a Balkans, but who is making the threats yet again? Then if this is the case and dreams are made true, who will play the victim yet again despite them making the threats in the first place? It really is just pathetic and sad. I wonder how much the upcoming elections have to do with this warmongering?
pre 12 godina
Threats only encourage others to turn against you.
pre 12 godina
My leader? I don't have one, I don't even vote!!! What the hell are you talking about? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or something?
pre 12 godina
Hell its not rocket science, this type of move is how conflicts are solved.
(bganon, 25 November 2011 20:11)
=========================
Why don't you just tell us what you think the solution is? How are you going to get through to the KLA who have absolutely no reason to negotiate?
Even if you convinced the Albanians who have zero control of what happens there how are you going to implement this new unity when the west clearly doesn't want it?
You make a wonderful speech, worthy of a Nobel Prize, just like Obama did and actually got that prize but just like with Obama, it was only a speech and nothing was sorted out and no peace achieved.
pre 12 godina
In the end you are advocating a policy of waiting, of doing nothing until Russia gets more clout and the Serbian position grows stronger. How long should we wait 10 years, 20 years, or longer for example?
(bganon, 25 November 2011 14:59)
--
You really do seem to have a mechanical mind. Maybe you can answer this, are you a Serb? I have my doubts because you seem to lack the emotional attachment that one has to their nationality and culture.
As for your question, I am advocating defending the Serbs and attempting to negotiate a fair compromise with the Albanians. The compromise part looks like a lost cause simply because the Albanians have too many criminally minded "politicians" and the US has a huge ego. Both will be their downfall.
But yes, it is going to cost Serbia a lot to support those living in KiM but who's complaining? The emotional, historical and cultural attachment Serbians have to KiM justifies the means. But you tell me then, what do you propose? The sell-outs would prefer to abandon them and negotiate KiM for a rotten EU carrot, that is fairly obvious.
And it is a waiting game. If negotiations do not produce a fair compromise and the geopolitical situation changes in Serbia's favour, which is what I expect, then we again have the edge. I wouldn't like to say what that means for KiM Albanians but I have an idea.
pre 12 godina
Sure, “IF”… that says it all. Not sure though a cold mind would decide to invest on something that depends on such “IF” which has no prospect to be realized in the foreseeable future.
(icj1, 25 November 2011 18:42)
--
Well, if you ask me, I think WWIII has started.
pre 12 godina
Instead of balance of friendliness, love or balance of good neighbourly relations, it is "balance of of fear". That is what Serbia needs after loosing almost all and slipping into decandence in the last couple of decade. This guy is a raging lunatic.
pre 12 godina
And it is a waiting game. If negotiations do not produce a fair compromise and the geopolitical situation changes in Serbia's favour, which is what I expect, then we again have the edge. I wouldn't like to say what that means for KiM Albanians but I have an idea.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
_________
I too wait for the geopolictical situation to change in the complete favor of Albanians so we could rule the Ballkan peninsula just like Ilirians once did.
Cheers to my assimilated Illyrian brother:)
pre 12 godina
bganon,
There are multiple potential solutions to be explored.
Hell its not rocket science, this type of move is how conflicts are solved.
(bganon, 25 November 2011 20:11)
What do you think possible solutions could be?
pre 12 godina
Why? Does Kosovo belong to NATO?
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 21:00)
Why? Does Kosovo belong to Serbia?
=======================
Of course it does. Kosovo is part of Serbia. Do you own an Atlas?
pre 12 godina
What do you think possible solutions could be?
(aaayyy, 25 November 2011 22:40)
I couldn't fit all the potential solutions on one page, but we are familiar with most of the options.
But I'm certain that a pre-condition to any solution is to create some trust and a true desire for compromise and a realisation that things will only get worse the long everything drags on.
What would be the deciding factor would be in the Serbian / Kos Albanian public put pressure upon politicians to resolve this. All of a sudden the cowards would be ready to reach a deal, because they would no longer be afraid of being voted out. The (courageous) politicians that started the (peace) process in such a political environment would stand to benefit having put their necks on the line in the first place.
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of vested interests - related to crime for example who will lose business, but perhaps some of that fraternity will even see greater profits with a resolution to Kosovo.
This is what should happen, but it likely won't, because we have people who are afraid, unimaginative, settle back into the laziness of hatred etc. We also have outside factors that are obstructing more than helping, whether they know it or not. So in the end when we do have a final settlement it will be a mixture of what I outlined and of an outside influenced (or forced) solution.
The current negotiations do not look anything like a final settlement as we all know.
Peggy I don't have a magic wand solution. A solution is what is achieved through (detailed and hard fought) negotiation. We are familiar with most options. All we can do is to try to create the best possible conditions which I've tried to state, but currently we don't have those conditions.
I think that if Serbs and Kosovo Albanians agreed some kind of solution that didn't involve war then the US (and others) would be forced to support it. Of course in this theoretical scenario the US could try to obstruct and could easily succeed if they wanted. More likely that they would have their political favourites, whilst for example a more pro European (ie financed by) Kos Alb political party would support the solution. It is an important point that you make - there would have to be at least tacit backing from one outside political factor.
Zoran you should know by now not to set too much stall at a forum such as this one. But we are, would not say headed - we are there already, living in very difficult times and there is little sign that things will get better anytime soon.
pre 12 godina
These statements from this politician remind me of some monologue from a Sandzak leader some time ago, also stoking up the passions and frustrations of the people.
Sadly, such people say these things not for any reason other than they gain popularity. Why do Russians admire so much Putin's attempt to cripple Georgia?
It would be nice to say that people do not deserve such politicians, but would that not be letting the people off a bit lightly, whether in Novosibirsk, Novi Pazar or Visegrad??
Perhaps the best thing would be for all the peoples of the Balkans to have a common enemy again? Perhaps Gospodin Putin could help out??
pre 12 godina
@Djed
try again, i have no idea what it is you're wanting to say
pre 12 godina
"they were busy doing the same damn thing during the (earlier) balkan wars, and even before"
@...
If Serb dont' do this, Albania will be not recorded in histoty at all.
pre 12 godina
You really do seem to have a mechanical mind. Maybe you can answer this, are you a Serb? I have my doubts because you seem to lack the emotional attachment that one has to their nationality and culture.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Oh dear, you still don’t understand that only mechanical minds and cold reasoning brings you to the right decisions. Emotional attachment is good for deciding about your partner not for taking financial, economic, or political decisions. Financial, economic, or political decisions based on emotions have brought many countries to or close to ruin. For example we’ve heard in these forums that China should happily lose its lifetime savings, just for having the joy of causing some suffering to the Americans :)
----------
But yes, it is going to cost Serbia a lot to support those living in KiM but who's complaining?
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Of course, if the money of 7M should be wasted for the benefit of 0.07M, that’s fine :) There is only a small problem that Serbia is broke… For more information just click the link “Economic crisis in Serbia” on the right of this page.
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The emotional, historical and cultural attachment Serbians have to KiM justifies the means.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Of course, but the means are limited. Serbia has to decide whether to spend money that benefits 7M people of 0.07M people – money and emotions don’t go well together.
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But you tell me then, what do you propose? The sell-outs would prefer to abandon them and negotiate KiM for a rotten EU carrot, that is fairly obvious.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Whether Serbia gets the rotten EU carrot or not, does not get back KiM. Serbia can get back KiM when it convinces the KiM inhabitants that life with Serbia is much better than life independent from Serbia. History has many examples where one country has happily joined another country because of the prospect of better life. I’d be happy if the inhabitants of Kosovo were to decide in the future to join Serbia.
----------
And it is a waiting game. If negotiations do not produce a fair compromise and the geopolitical situation changes in Serbia's favour, which is what I expect, then we again have the edge. I wouldn't like to say what that means for KiM Albanians but I have an idea.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Sure, “IF”… that says it all. Not sure though a cold mind would decide to invest on something that depends on such “IF” which has no prospect to be realized in the foreseeable future.
pre 12 godina
"I've heard an opinion that Christian world tries to sacrifize Serbia to Muslim world to improve relationship."
yes...i've heard that aliens landed in Roswell too. the important thing is to detach conspiracy from common sense.
(adriatik, 24 November 2011 20:07)
There is no conspiracy here, nobody tries to hide it. As for common sense - one of the motivations of Christian (traditionally) West was/is to send message to the Muslims "See, we are not against you, we are taking the Muslim side in territorial dispute between traditionally Christian and traditionally Muslim peoples".
Adriatik, sometimes you behave as if you were embodiment of the truth and wisdom. Be a little bit more modest and try to understand other people's POV.
pre 12 godina
Valon get REAL! We are NOT traditionally Christian people and certainly NOT us Dardanians. We gave our best men to Islamic conquests proudly. Skenderbeg was just one brief anomaly. Where is Europe to condemn this Daciqi? Where is USA?! They will sell us out for cheap energy from Russia! We need stop alienating our Muslim brothers. Theres NO EUROPEAN FUTURE for us. Time to switch sides like after Skanderbeg.
pre 12 godina
bganon, let me be clear. Given the current circumstances in KiM, Russia is providing sufficient support. They are at the correct distance (in terms of diplomacy) and they don't need to provide more for now. We can call on them at the appropriate times and they will be there.
Now on the other hand, the US moved close to Georgia and attempted to help it reclaim control of Ab and SO militarily. That ended up backfiring and made the situation worse as Russia and other countries then recognised Ab and SO as independent.
Russia doesn't need to get any closer to Serbia right now and provoke any kind of conflict that would surely make the Serbian position worse. However, as the situation evolves, so will Russian support. The nature of the current position by NATO, the EU and Albanians is not sustainable in the longer term and it will also backfire on them.
When Serbia's position gets stronger, so will Russian support. Now it is in Russia's interest to support Serbia for the simple fact that if it doesn't, we will be forced into NATO and work against them. They have a choice of supporting an ally or gaining an enemy. Pretty easy isn't it?
pre 12 godina
Russians had/have obligations (at least moral ones) toward Abhazians and Ossetians who didn't want to seccede from the USSR as a part of Georgia.
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 21:17)
Seccede from the USSR ? What did it mean to seccede from something that did not exist ?!
Mate, don't you know that USSR was simply dissolved. With the exception of the 3 baltic states, nobody else secceded from the USSR prior to the its dissolution.
pre 12 godina
Well, if you ask me, I think WWIII has started.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 21:49)
Oh great... How if the fighting going ? (btw who is fighting :) )
pre 12 godina
What do you think possible solutions could be?
(aaayyy, 25 November 2011 22:40)
One that is in accordance with Resolution 1244. No ?
pre 12 godina
Tell me, how do you think Serbia has not shown genuine interest in reaching a settlement? What else can they do? I am getting tired of you saying we haven't done all we can but you don't offer one thing that Serbia can do which has not been done yet.
You say there are many, but please offer us at least one possibility that has not been tried yet.
(Peggy, 27 November 2011 02:41)
For example, offer Kosovo Albanians the right to vote for Serbia's constitution;
For example, offer Kosovo Albanians a veto right over changes to Serbia's Constitution (similarly to the veto right that Kosovo's Constitution offers to Kosovo Serbs).
pre 12 godina
To all Albanians threatening war - how are you going to beat Russia and Serbia without NATO when you failed last time to beat Serbia 1 on 1 and when KFOR just got beat back by Serb civilians at the baricades? And if you think NATO can back you again, then you are deluded. No more ''new world order''. Yeltsin, Clinton and Bush are gone.
(MikeC, 24 November 2011 16:52)
Before you write this post met an Albanian. If you have met an Albanian you will understand tha is no chance for Kosova, and if you want war, yes we have to discus witch part of Serbia pass to Kosova Preseva or Sandjak. Tell me mate. Before you make plans I suggest friendly to you to know what a real Albanian is.
pre 12 godina
Dacic made the Kosovan Serbs to ask for Russian Citizenship and now he is going to ask people of Serbia to say that they are Russians too, and ask Russia to give a piece of pepper to everyone in Serbia which confirms a Russian citizenship.
This man should move to Russia as he does not belong in Balkans.
pre 12 godina
Sure, “IF”… that says it all. Not sure though a cold mind would decide to invest on something that depends on such “IF” which has no prospect to be realized in the foreseeable future.
(icj1, 25 November 2011 18:42)
the Chinese could invest...
pre 12 godina
the Chinese could invest...
(aaayyy, 25 November 2011 20:00)
I know that would make you happy, but the Chinese are not a charitable organization. Their money comes first for them, not you happiness. The Chinese are busy investing in more secure things, like US government debt. The Chinese, my friend, don't invest based on emotions, but based on risk and return.
pre 12 godina
Bgannon, all I can say is, You're dreaming.
You make it sound like Serbs have any power in coming to or implementing an agreement.
I truly believe that Serbs want an agreement and are more than ready to compromise, people and politicians but this is not a way way street. Albanians don't have any interest and that is Albanian population and their leadership. Well, not for as long as they are backed by America which has an interest in Kosovo.
So please stop dreaming that if only Serbia had guts to negotiate seriously it would happen.
Serbia has been totally taken out of the loop. Albanians are getting their directions from the US and nobody is listening to Serbia.
Tell me, how do you think Serbia has not shown genuine interest in reaching a settlement? What else can they do? I am getting tired of you saying we haven't done all we can but you don't offer one thing that Serbia can do which has not been done yet.
You say there are many, but please offer us at least one possibility that has not been tried yet.
pre 12 godina
For example, offer Kosovo Albanians a veto right over changes to Serbia's Constitution (similarly to the veto right that Kosovo's Constitution offers to Kosovo Serbs).
(icj1, 27 November 2011 20:43)
==============================
Are you crazy? Might as well give you the keys to the presidential office.
pre 12 godina
You lost, get the hell over it and move on with your lives
pre 12 godina
This guy is full of sh.....say in England. Does he really think that Thaci is scared after his comments? REST ASSURED NOT. In Kosovo there is a European vision for the future. Kosovo's independence is recognised by the overwhelming majority of the EU countries, USA and others. In northern Kosovo there are international forces and as long as they are there they are guarantor of Kosovo independence. You can scream all day "status neutral" but that is not the case.
pre 12 godina
I guess certain things never change. The rich get richer, the poor become poorer and Dacic has obviously lost the plot completely and has gone barking mad in a desperate attempt to cling to power by beating the Kosova drum again. Honestly folks, we've been here before, remember Solobo's hate speech in '89 at Fushe Kosove and the pathetic, boring nationalis SPS rhetoric that followed in the 90s? No change whatsoever.
The solution is simple people: recognize Kosova now, exchange territories (North Kosova goes to Serbia, East Kosova goes to Kosova). End Of.
pre 12 godina
Well, this man should be kicked out of the serbian government immediatly. A statement like this one, would cause a huge uproar and people protesting against that person in any civilized country. I guess that shows the state of your country, and sorry to say that, the idiological framework most serbian people live in. With comments like that, and the obvious ignorance of the serbian public to such statements, any European persepctive for Serbia are going to be destroyed. War, or the threat of war, have no place in Europe.
pre 12 godina
“We should go to war over Kosovo if necessary” said Dacic.
Taci is not affraid from wars, far from it. Dacic just like his mentor, the mega criminal Milosevic, would be held responsible for all the consequences of that proclaimed war.
Remember, if you play with fire you may get burned.
pre 12 godina
Oh hear we go again!
Lets just see how many unemployed & uneducated albanians will come here and start posting the usual rubbish about Serbs being war mongers
pre 12 godina
what you are going to fight is a battle that you already lost. why am i ready this news anyway, its just to funny
pre 12 godina
Serbia should have done something ten years ago, instead of closing its eyes and let our brothers killed. This is a shame for me to see part of our heritage desacrated.
pre 12 godina
"Oh hear we go again!
Lets just see how many unemployed & uneducated albanians will come here and start posting the usual rubbish about Serbs being war mongers
(Predrag"
So this is not a call for Serb ultra extremists to continue their destruction from the 90's?
Even if it is for the "elections" apparently that is the message that the "brave" Serbs want to hear no?
pre 12 godina
serbian have lost 2Generation of young solders if they go in war again and loos nother Generation then serbia is goin to be like a driver driving car on empty gastank if any budy now what i'mean
so the best is stay away
pre 12 godina
Talking about war is the last thing Serbs should do as long as Bondsteel exists and Bill Clinton has a statue in Pristina; all of the province might be lost forever. Dacic seems to forget that Albanians are still succesfull in playing the helpless victim. A favourable solution for Serbia concerning Kosovo simply doesn't exist; they'd better work towards the smallest loss possible. With the Serb enclaves, Presevo and the recognition of 'Kosova', Serbia does have some spare change to negotiate over parts of the province that really matter to Serbs. The claim on the entire province still would change nothing about nearly 2 million Albanians living there that Serbia shouldn't want within its borders. In short: accept some loss and partition...
pre 12 godina
In this event, NATO should go to war over Kosovo if necessary.
(Ian, UK, 24 November 2011 19:33)
--------------
Why? Does Kosovo belong to NATO?
pre 12 godina
"I've heard an opinion that Christian world tries to sacrifize Serbia to Muslim world to improve relationship."
yes...i've heard that aliens landed in Roswell too. the important thing is to detach conspiracy from common sense.
(adriatik, 24 November 2011 20:07)
There is no conspiracy here, nobody tries to hide it. As for common sense - one of the motivations of Christian (traditionally) West was/is to send message to the Muslims "See, we are not against you, we are taking the Muslim side in territorial dispute between traditionally Christian and traditionally Muslim peoples".
Adriatik, sometimes you behave as if you were embodiment of the truth and wisdom. Be a little bit more modest and try to understand other people's POV.
pre 12 godina
(Analyst, 24 November 2011 11:06)
Who said that prishtina can't have a army? We albanians have a corrupt goverment in prishtina
Wich makes people poor, poor and poor. If you had Albin Kurti as primeminister the Belgrad attitude towards prishtina would be diffrend.
And Albin Kurti's attitude towards Ivica's statement about war would be like.
" Ok start a war!, Talk is cheap, put in work is difficult"
pre 12 godina
As Stefanovic said a couple of days ago, the Albanians were given everything. This is the way EU wants it to be and hence diplomacy will not succeed. Diplomacy has already failed.
pre 12 godina
the crucial passage is what Lazanski says:
"If NATO does not want to go over the barricades by force, what would happen if Serbia set a clear line regarding some other issues as well?"
This makes very clear that what Dacic says is to be treated very seriously by the authorities in Prishtina.
It is obvious that Serbia has blackmailed NATO with war in north if it tries to take over barricades by force.
Nato is way too busy with Iran and perhaps Syria not to speak about the unfinished job A-stan and Iraq.
Thus, NATO says- let's keep the status-quo, I'm not going to creat myself problems for Kosova.
Who shoudl than reply to these Serbian concrete and reliable threats? Serbia has over 400 modern and upgraded tanks. And more of older versions, plus some surprises that is keeping in Nis in a joint military base with Russians.
It remains Kosova only. Well we all know that KSF has only 2,300 lightly armed memebrs- thus easy job for the Serbian Army.
Now perhaps is the time that Kosova's authorities start to discuss seriously the defence issues with the alays and friends as Thaci and all Albanian politicians never forget to remind us.
Kreat reliable and professional defence structures.
Kosova needs to have same hardware from NATO as Serbia is having from Russia.
If we have backing of US I want to see Abrhamas 2 in our hands I want Leopard 2 and other serious stuff that will garantee my freedom.
All the rest is just cheap bluf and will be discovered by Serbia just as they did with the barrikades story and well explained by Lazanski:
"If NATO does not want to go over the barricades by force, what would happen if Serbia set a clear line regarding some other issues as well?"
pre 12 godina
Well, this man should be kicked out of the serbian government immediatly. A statement like this one, would cause a huge uproar and people protesting against that person in any civilized country. I guess that shows the state of your country, and sorry to say that, the idiological framework most serbian people live in. With comments like that, and the obvious ignorance of the serbian public to such statements, any European persepctive for Serbia are going to be destroyed. War, or the threat of war, have no place in Europe.
(Bill, 24 November 2011 11:01)
Hey Billy, newslfash for you, Serbia is already IN Europe. We don't want to be in your moraly and financially bankrupt EU - the way things are going it may not even survive until Christmas. While I don't like Dacic as I think he is just saying this to get votes, I agree that military force has to be on the table to protect your sovereign borders, that is what any normal country would do. So yes, please take your EU membership and stick it, we don't want to be Germans' horse cleaners - we will let our neighbours do that :).
Cheers!!
pre 12 godina
Since Kosovo has no army and is not allowed to have an army, there's no way Thaci can start an armed assault (though the might wish it). Besides that, I'm sure he learned the last lesson. KFOR is prepared, too.
pre 12 godina
Our message is: you cant mess with us Serbs no more. Thaci will be lucky to end up like Haradinaj and Albanians will be lucky to get ''more than autonomy but less than independence''. We saw how the Sri Lankan state dealt with their own terrorist-seperatists two years ago. Albanians, are you ready to get real now?
pre 12 godina
Bring it on. it's not year 98 - 99 anymore.
pre 12 godina
Serbia should have done something ten years ago, instead of closing its eyes and let our brothers killed. This is a shame for me to see part of our heritage desacrated.
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 14:10)
Peggy Serbia has done ten years ago exactly what you are thinking. I don’t know what Angel of Serbia convince Milosevic to stop doing that, but if he doesn’t stopped that, today we were not discussing for Kosova but for Serbia. Do you catch it?
And if I was an Albanian that hates Serbs I would wish that another Milosevic comes in power at Serbia. What worries me is that kind of declarations collect votes of Serbs. Even if a little part of Serb voters supports these kinds of declarations this is a big problem for Serbia itself and for the entire region.
pre 12 godina
I'm actually not looking forward to Serbia declaring war against Kosovar-Albanians,but if warfare does occur then Serbia should be prepared that some Albanians could be relentless in giving Serb troops an "ass-kicking" or "ass-whooping"( ass-whooping is at least a term used by some Americans or African-Americans) they'll never forget.The bottom line is that some Albanians can be aggressive if they're pushed around,in fact,I ain't surprised that some Albanians will not take crap from people or certain people.
pre 12 godina
"I have always tried to avoid these sweeping (racist) generalizations about serbia is this and that, serbia/serbs have always been this and that. but i have to say, i'm beginning to see things differently. yes, under that evil milosevic things were horrible, ugly, trashy, corrupt, with never ending rhetoric and blood-letting. Oh my god, we thought, we have to get rid of him, of this crazy, evil family, this perverse tito-wannabe (!), this stalinist, this nationalist-socialist, this old commie hack, whatever. "
=====================
Really Roberto!!!??? You have tried not to judge Serbia and not generalize?
Judging by the length of your post, you must be really rattled. You are seething. It must be because Serbs are getting so fed up with all your c*@p and something will have to happen to bring things to the way they should be.
pre 12 godina
The military industry here in Italy is cheering up for this wonderfoul development...finally a new war in the Balkans is coming...Finmeccanica will reward Mr.Dacic with a medal...
pre 12 godina
Well, this man should be kicked out of the serbian government immediatly. A statement like this one, would cause a huge uproar and people protesting against that person in any civilized country. I guess that shows the state of your country, and sorry to say that, the idiological framework most serbian people live in. With comments like that, and the obvious ignorance of the serbian public to such statements, any European persepctive for Serbia are going to be destroyed. War, or the threat of war, have no place in Europe.
(Bill, 24 November 2011 11:01)
Unfortunately BILL,this ''man'' is nothing but an average Serb.This is how in reality,90% of Serbs think and feel,despite their ''peaceful'' rhetoric.
Therefore Albanians should be ready 4 a possible confrontation.
I am not saying in the weeks/months 2 come,but within few years.The ''good'' and ''bad'' news is that,this time there will be more countries involved,especially if economic situation in Europe deteriorate any further.
However,ALBANIANS have 2 be prepared.
pre 12 godina
To all Serbian bloggers, it's easy to get your blood boiling with a few empty words and boring rhetoric from teh middle ages. To Mr Dacic and his hate-mongers, if it's war you want sir, don't worry that's what you'll get, all the way to Sumadija and Kalimegdan as a matter of fact!
pre 12 godina
Now, this is different! You Serbs show Barricades and A piece of Army Russia gave you. it is true that we don't possess enough equipment to fight you we neither want to go in war with Serbs, but we've realized that our neighbors are not as good as we expected you to be. I don't know why you keep dreaming of Kosovo's Territory, it has never been yours, and it will never be! I consider my self, Kosovo, as garden of Eden, where Devils come and eat fresh fruits and after that they say: "it was ours!" , how come! You should come up with an idea one day, that one thing that is not yours, will never be yours! Wake up, people! If you like Serbia to join EU and became much stronger economically and other stuff, wash your face with cold water and stop dreaming.
pre 12 godina
Continue with the cheap talk Dacic. You have obviously calculated that you will steal some votes from DSS and SRS.
Anybody from that block that votes for you is an idiot. In fact anybody from any block that votes for you is an idiot. Once upon a time I had begun to shake off my SPS phobia - I recognise that it is necessary to have a centre left party in the political system.
But SPS continues to go for cheap populist tricks rather than support democratic socialist policies.
Now go back to rattling that sabre, just remember that we all know that rattling it is all you will be doing.
pre 12 godina
Dacic is the incarnation of Milosevic, the same evil sneaky fox that would walk over dead bodies for few more votes. His stupidity is unparalleled when he thinks that now is the time for another Milosevic in Serbia. As for you Serb patriotic diaspora, you are so full of it.
pre 12 godina
A sick man in the head,a primitive Serb who is not satisfied with the Balkan wars and taking innocent people's lives.
pre 12 godina
Pathetic? I was mocking Albanians for there 1 on 1 loss to us in 1999 when Russia or NATO wasnt even involved. Come to think of it, we wont even need Russia on the ground now either just judging by how bad NATO got shunt down at the baricades by Serb civilians. Now THATS Pathetic!
pre 12 godina
To all Albanians threatening war - how are you going to beat Russia and Serbia without NATO when you failed last time to beat Serbia 1 on 1 and when KFOR just got beat back by Serb civilians at the baricades? And if you think NATO can back you again, then you are deluded. No more ''new world order''. Yeltsin, Clinton and Bush are gone.
pre 12 godina
--Dacic is the incarnation of Milosevic, the same evil sneaky fox that would walk over dead bodies for few more votes. His stupidity is unparalleled when he thinks that now is the time for another Milosevic in Serbia. As for you Serb patriotic diaspora, you are so full of it.(miri, 24 November 2011 16:49)--
thank you miri, as always. and others who are pointing out the very real dangerous implications of this politician. how naive to perceive this as just "funny serbian electioneering..." have you people been alive for the last few decades? does anyone remember the 90s? you think such threats as "War should not be ruled out" are jokes, or just empty rhetoric? sorry, but they are not.
Serbia is (technically) in europe -- yes, but then so is belarus. it doesn't mean that the country, much less govt, shares (progressive) european values. and sadly, it does not. those value are held by a minority, who certainly do not hold power in that country.
I have always tried to avoid these sweeping (racist) generalizations about serbia is this and that, serbia/serbs have always been this and that. but i have to say, i'm beginning to see things differently. yes, under that evil milosevic things were horrible, ugly, trashy, corrupt, with never ending rhetoric and blood-letting. Oh my god, we thought, we have to get rid of him, of this crazy, evil family, this perverse tito-wannabe (!), this stalinist, this nationalist-socialist, this old commie hack, whatever.
and finally, thousands and thousands of dead and wasted lives later, we got rid of him. but what has come in his place? under elections, under (what they call) democracy? it has come full circle. the rhetoric, the threats, the pretense that "wherever there are serbs..." all of the croatians who read of these events (not to mention of that 2-bit fascist do-dik) must surely be thinking: thank god for operation storm, or we'd be having the same damn scenario. and they'd be accurate.
we are warned not to hold these frozen views of countries, peoples -- look how germany has changed in the last 60 years, more or less. but dacic and company are making a very strong case that serbia can never be trusted, that they will always find a way to promote war and hatred in the balkans. "balkanization." "ethnic cleansing." it didn't start in the 90s, people. they were busy doing the same damn thing during the (earlier) balkan wars, and even before.
so think what you want about dacic, but just don't (falsely) minimize the implications.
BTW, i'm surprised no one has mentioned it: with all of this war rhetoric coming out of belgrade, we're bound to see thaci stay in power for another good decade. Mais non?
happy thanksgiving! robert-0 frisco
pre 12 godina
In this event, NATO should go to war over Kosovo if necessary.
pre 12 godina
Democratic Party (DS) deputy leader Jelena Trivan told Press that our country should not fight for anything with war because the people would lose the battle.
“Serbia cannot afford itself a luxury to lose another generation in wars because there will be no Serbia then. Therefore we should fight all next battles with intelligence and diplomacy,” she said.
This "spokesperson" for Tadic is simply trying to keep the Serbs "in line" with the EU Elites (ie. Germany). The last thing the EU wants is for the Serbs to awaken and defend themselves. It is the duty of ANY soveriegn nation to defend themselves and their territory. While I agree that intelligence and diplomacy is always the first step in defending yourself, you cannot tell your adversary that you will only defend yourself with words- that's crazy talk....or should I say, "politicaleeze" for a certain (EU) agenda. And please tell Jelena Trivan that she should be defending Serb interests and not Brussels. Her comments are a disgrace and a lie- there will always be Serbs and Serbia!!! Kosovo is definitely worth not simply "giving up on"....this generation of Serbs needs to learn this from the past 30 generations of Serbs who defended Kosovo.
pre 12 godina
Hey Dacic to start war is not hard to win it is very hard far as I can remember since year 90 s you Serbs has not wine any war this time if you start will not stop until all Albanians are united which mean Serbia will no longer have same Borders it has now same time Vojvodina will be gone to, I love to see Serbia start one more war.
pre 12 godina
an and others
I wonder why the West doesn't want to search for a compromise? Tadic isn't warthirsty monster, why couldn't the West negotiate with him finding a compromise?
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 20:31)
aaayyy,
Why should the West compromise with Serbia since it was already settled 12 years ago when Serbia unconditionally surrendered to NATO. What the Serbs want is to re-negotiate UNSC Res.1244. Well, I have news for you Serb dreamers, it's not going to happen. Just be thankful that NATO didn't completely destroy Serbia in 1999.
pre 12 godina
This time we cannot expect Russia to abandon Serbs or the same response from NATO as last time. It is a different world. A short war is probably inevitable judging by the ''emergency centre'' the Russians are building near Nis.
pre 12 godina
Well,Millosevic said these words as well, we all know where it went. More blood, more victims and for what...for a God damn myth. don't you guys have some beers to drink, leave us alone!
pre 12 godina
Yeat Another JS
It is very easy to sell bravery from the comfort of your armchair. The louder the threats the more obvious the defeat. Serbia is like the boyfriend who got dumped and cannot find closure. He threatens, curses but in the end is forced to accept reality because he finds it will not change. Get over it, its a lot more healthy
pre 12 godina
I want Ivica Dačić in the front line action with his pot belly leading the charge what do you say Ivica. What it is better to have 18 years old,s as canon folder leading the charge. Ivica will be in Belgrade doing the thinking and directing them and giving heck to the world with his big mouth.
pre 12 godina
Idiot mini milosevic what a big primordial mind ,we know your idiot logic blood drinker
and you have family educate violence and wars and your old school from your big papa slobodan milosevic judged for genocide in hag
pre 12 godina
These statements from this politician remind me of some monologue from a Sandzak leader some time ago, also stoking up the passions and frustrations of the people.
Sadly, such people say these things not for any reason other than they gain popularity. Why do Russians admire so much Putin's attempt to cripple Georgia?
It would be nice to say that people do not deserve such politicians, but would that not be letting the people off a bit lightly, whether in Novosibirsk, Novi Pazar or Visegrad??
Perhaps the best thing would be for all the peoples of the Balkans to have a common enemy again? Perhaps Gospodin Putin could help out??
pre 12 godina
In the end you are advocating a policy of waiting, of doing nothing until Russia gets more clout and the Serbian position grows stronger. How long should we wait 10 years, 20 years, or longer for example?
(bganon, 25 November 2011 14:59)
--
You really do seem to have a mechanical mind. Maybe you can answer this, are you a Serb? I have my doubts because you seem to lack the emotional attachment that one has to their nationality and culture.
As for your question, I am advocating defending the Serbs and attempting to negotiate a fair compromise with the Albanians. The compromise part looks like a lost cause simply because the Albanians have too many criminally minded "politicians" and the US has a huge ego. Both will be their downfall.
But yes, it is going to cost Serbia a lot to support those living in KiM but who's complaining? The emotional, historical and cultural attachment Serbians have to KiM justifies the means. But you tell me then, what do you propose? The sell-outs would prefer to abandon them and negotiate KiM for a rotten EU carrot, that is fairly obvious.
And it is a waiting game. If negotiations do not produce a fair compromise and the geopolitical situation changes in Serbia's favour, which is what I expect, then we again have the edge. I wouldn't like to say what that means for KiM Albanians but I have an idea.
pre 12 godina
Unfortunately BILL,this ''man'' is nothing but an average Serb.This is how in reality,90% of Serbs think and feel,despite their ''peaceful'' rhetoric.
(Dean, 24 November 2011 14:07)
THE USA actually turned similair rhetoric into law, for something that was a hypothetical. Google Hague Invasion Act. Now they will leave no stone unturned to protect their own including taking out the International Court of Justice if need be. Everyone can be the same. Billy you made an oopsy.
In that light I think there is justification for the liberation of Serbian territory particually when you take into account the silent murder and cleansing of the Serbian,Roma,Circassian,Albanian etc population that has baltantly occured and occuring over the past decade. Thaci the animal and his criminal gangs need to be liquidated, this would not be an operation against the innocent people of Kosovo-Metohija, but a professional operation by a mature and capable army against the handcuffs these evil cohorts place on society.
Good Luck understanding.
pre 12 godina
"We are taking the Muslim side in territorial dispute between traditionally Christian and traditionally Muslim peoples".
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 21:13)
The Albanians are traditionally Christian peoples. It has never been a matter of faith, as much as those radical orthodox priests and radical imams preach. It was all ways a conflict of ethnicity. This game of words to try and make Albanians seem less European wont work, Europe knows better.
pre 12 godina
Dacic is a complete moron,this is pre-election rhetoric. But we should have sent MUP and Police into KiM years ago as authorized by 1244. Why we never did is beyond me.
pre 12 godina
Shpetim, you must be on medication not to take your own advice about reality because no one is just talking any more. The reality is that recognitions have stopped, retractions have started, KFOR got beat back today at barricades by Serb civilians, your KPS is nowhere to be seen or herd and Russia is actually building an ''emergency centre'' an hour away from Mitrovica. War threats are not just rhetoric with all this in the background.
pre 12 godina
As far as I remember, you are also living somewhere in the West Empire. Are you just as dumb as all Westerners, if I follow your logic???
(Dean, 24 November 2011 16:57)
If i follow your logic i should beleive that citizenship and state are exactly the same thing.Dude of course not everyone in the British empire enjoyed great living standards,neither do the people in Kosovo as a western satilite entity.The only point of your existance geostrategically is that you are a base for the USA/Nato.I study global geopolitics and i can tell you that Kosovo is definatly not independant.But hey hardly is any other place in the Balkans.I remember seeing this interview of a man in Prishtina,among others who were all albanian,he clearly stated that the Prishtina government cannot do anything without the us.One should always be carefull with generalizing public opinion,but if that is what the common man/woman says,than that says it all.
pre 12 godina
exKFOR
There is zero doubt in my mind, that not only were you not part of KFOR, you have never EVER been in Kosovo. that though is something else. what i am dealing with here is a man of extreme ideology, in short, the Christian version of the Taliban. You can come here and generalize all you like, it only shows the racist mindset that inhabits you. good luck with that.
"I've heard an opinion that Christian world tries to sacrifize Serbia to Muslim world to improve relationship."
yes...i've heard that aliens landed in Roswell too. the important thing is to detach conspiracy from common sense.
pre 12 godina
Valon get REAL! We are NOT traditionally Christian people and certainly NOT us Dardanians. We gave our best men to Islamic conquests proudly. Skenderbeg was just one brief anomaly. Where is Europe to condemn this Daciqi? Where is USA?! They will sell us out for cheap energy from Russia! We need stop alienating our Muslim brothers. Theres NO EUROPEAN FUTURE for us. Time to switch sides like after Skanderbeg.
pre 12 godina
Since Kosovo has no army and is not allowed to have an army, there's no way Thaci can start an armed assault (though the might wish it). Besides that, I'm sure he learned the last lesson. KFOR is prepared, too.
(Analyst, 24 November 2011 11:06)
Exactly, the reason for all the rhetoric and chest thumping. He knows that Thaci does not have the capabilities to "attack" Serbs, as Kfor is in charge of security of the country and Kosovo neither has the manpower nor equipment to wage a war. Notice he is not threatening Kfor at all.
It is like if the some US politician warning Cuba if they fire Nuclear missiles at the US we will will send in our forces.(In case anyone is clueless Cuba has no nukes).
His speech is no more than Nikolics hunger strike. A safe way to stimulate emotions and try and convince(fool) the locals that HE is a true leader.
pre 12 godina
Yet Another JS
Nothing left I guess but to wait and see. Allow me to tell you though, its over. You lost. Move on. All this rhetoric is just that, rhetoric. Better for mr Dačić to improve the life of ordinary Serbs rather than offering them some kind of reincarnation of Stefan Dusan. Sloba did the same and we all know how it ended
pre 12 godina
I consider that all slavic states should help Serbs. We Slavs should be uniform in everything, in the politician, a science, culture.
pre 12 godina
"try again, i have no idea what it is you're wanting to say"
@Shpetim,
I see you are informed very good for the old history. Explain me please a little more about your leader George Maniaces?
pre 12 godina
You say Russia cannot reverse independence. What independence? How on earth are they independent? They are just dumb muscle for the west. They are on a tight leash and governed by the US.
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 12:55)
As far as I remember, you are also living somewhere in the West Empire. Are you just as dumb as all Westerners, if I follow your logic???
pre 12 godina
mr dacic, USA uses the diplomacy of carrot and stick, and USA possess them both!! My advice to you, not to test the USA again!
As for serbia it possess neither the stick nor the carrot!! Really your empty threats mean very little with the ordianry people!
So as the analyst said its simply for internal use!
P.S. mr dacic if you are ready to go to war, I am too!! But in fact neither you or I will be prepared to risk our lives and go that far. We both want glory but with the blood of others. It aint fair.
pre 12 godina
"Why do Russians admire so much Putin's attempt to cripple Georgia? "
Russians had/have obligations (at least moral ones) toward Abhazians and Ossetians who didn't want to seccede from the USSR as a part of Georgia.
pre 12 godina
aaayyy
I do not have time for conspiracy theories. Christian nations recognized Kosovo to pacify the Muslims apparently. Yet, more Muslim countries support Serbia than acknowledge Kosovo. this stupid theory does not need a single brain cell wasted upon
pre 12 godina
People that are able to make clear, logical decisions are ones that are successful in achieving their aims Zoran.
Dreamers, the 'emotionally attatched' are pretty much doomed for a life of disappointment or self delusion, when their dreams don't come true.
Frankly I don't know how dreamers manage to spin (delude) themselves over and over about certain issues when we are all capable of remembering the past. Scratch that, I do know. Its involves deliberately forgetting or underplaying factors that would disturb some idea picture they are trying to paint.
How rational I am has nothing to do with my ethnic background, it was my own choice Zoran. I certainly have no need to parade patriotism in a forum such as this one, a kafana is a much more suitable place.
Besides, the national interest is the patriotic choice. The interest of all Serbian citizens is to improve life, increase employment, improve standard of health etc etc. I do not consider by the way the interests of Kosovo Serbs to be more or less important than other Serbs.
Who is complaining about the cost? Nobody is complaining. You know why? Because we don't know how much it costs. Yes, its a damn conspiracy by almost all political parties (including DS) to hide the current cost from (impoverished) Serbian citizens. Never mind the future cost if we do what you advocate - hang on for a couple of decades until the US (might) back down and Russia gains more influence.
Is it any wonder that nobody is complaining when nobody realises the cost? You think people won't complain because they have a spiritual attachment to Kosovo? You are speaking for yourself. Have you any idea of how bad the economic situation is with some families - they have barely enough money to put food on the table. Now if you ask those families if they would say rather receive food cupons for certain items, or that this (potential) money should go to pay professors a higher wage at Pristina University (Mitrovica) than they would be paid at Belgrade University. But thats just the tip of the iceberg both in terms of examples and money.
When people are suffering they are pretty quick to forget spiritual attachments when its a matter of survival.
I wouldn't say that we have the edge at all. In fact I'd say that Kosovo Albanians and Serbs are doomed to more suffering and stagnation for as long as this conflict / impasse is ongoing. And although we in Serbia proper are also suffering, but less than both Kos Albanians or Serbs, this also makes us losers. We continue to lose ground to countries we should be competing with like Croatia and slip towards Macedonian levels of economy. This means its in our own self interest to stop this waiting game.
I believe that people like you and myself who have an above average living standard have a responsiblity to these poor(er) people and have a responsibility to our fellow Serbians to let them realise the truth of the cost.
I agree with you that a solution lies in compromise, its fairly obvious that we can't get a deal in the near future. But its also obvious that we have been doing this wrong, just as we did in the past. Its time to cut the crap, its time to speak directly to Albanians, to talk about our common interest and not to be locked into some immature zero sum game.
A pipe dream? Well, is it? Now think about it, do you really think that all diplomatic avenues have been explored? Do you really think that this current pathetic lot of politicians are capable of a compromise solution.
The first step is goodwill and fostering some trust between Serbs and Albanians. Once we are on that treadmill then we can talk real neogotiations, but we need a genuine desire betwen Serbs and Albanians and not a perception that we are both being forced to the table.
It needs to be made as clear as crystal to Serbs and Albanians what they are losing by continuing the current impasse. There are multiple potential solutions to be explored.
Hell its not rocket science, this type of move is how conflicts are solved.
pre 12 godina
To all Albanians threatening war - how are you going to beat Russia and Serbia without NATO when you failed last time to beat Serbia 1 on 1 and when KFOR just got beat back by Serb civilians at the baricades? And if you think NATO can back you again, then you are deluded. No more ''new world order''. Yeltsin, Clinton and Bush are gone.
(MikeC, 24 November 2011 16:52)
You mock Kosovo because of their dependence on NATO for defense(as mandated by UNSC) but then you HAVE to use Russia in your threat against a people with no army. How pathethic can one get?
pre 12 godina
Ian and others
I wonder why the West doesn't want to search for a compromise? Tadic isn't warthirsty monster, why couldn't the West negotiate with him finding a compromise?
pre 12 godina
To all Albanians threatening war - how are you going to beat Russia and Serbia without NATO when you failed last time to beat Serbia 1 on 1 and when KFOR just got beat back by Serb civilians at the baricades? And if you think NATO can back you again, then you are deluded. No more ''new world order''. Yeltsin, Clinton and Bush are gone.
(MikeC, 24 November 2011 16:52)
Before you write this post met an Albanian. If you have met an Albanian you will understand tha is no chance for Kosova, and if you want war, yes we have to discus witch part of Serbia pass to Kosova Preseva or Sandjak. Tell me mate. Before you make plans I suggest friendly to you to know what a real Albanian is.
pre 12 godina
Ian and others
I wonder why the West doesn't want to search for a compromise? Tadic isn't warthirsty monster, why couldn't the West negotiate with him finding a compromise?
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 20:31)
The West is searching for compromise, that is why the EU has pressured Serbia into technical negotiations with Kosovo to improve things on the ground. It is a senior Serbian politician (Tadic cabinet minister) who has brought up the issue of war in the event of a failure of negotiations/ compromise not the West.
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Why? Does Kosovo belong to NATO?
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 21:00)
Why? Does Kosovo belong to Serbia? Surely Kosovo belongs to the people of Kosovo. It is a senior Serbian politician who is threatening war here. Please see the rest of my comment above.
Surely the last thing anyone wants is another war in a Balkans, but who is making the threats yet again? Then if this is the case and dreams are made true, who will play the victim yet again despite them making the threats in the first place? It really is just pathetic and sad. I wonder how much the upcoming elections have to do with this warmongering?
pre 12 godina
@Djed
try again, i have no idea what it is you're wanting to say
pre 12 godina
And it is a waiting game. If negotiations do not produce a fair compromise and the geopolitical situation changes in Serbia's favour, which is what I expect, then we again have the edge. I wouldn't like to say what that means for KiM Albanians but I have an idea.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
_________
I too wait for the geopolictical situation to change in the complete favor of Albanians so we could rule the Ballkan peninsula just like Ilirians once did.
Cheers to my assimilated Illyrian brother:)
pre 12 godina
"Political analyst Milan Nikolić also thinks that calls for the use of military force are a part of the international politics, but that Dačić’s statement is directed at the Serbian public."
After thinking through this issue thoroughly I agree with the statement above. Dacic knows the people are disappointed with the way things are going for the Tadic administration. The Danish EU-representation clearly stated there will be no progress for Serbia towards EU for the next 6 months. Then these tries of hostile take-over of the northern Kosovo customs. It is time for a change in the rhetoric. But I am still 100% sure of that this will NOT lead to another war as long as NATO is still in Kosovo. After that it will depend on if a successful agreement has been reached between Belgrade and Pristina by then.
pre 12 godina
"some kind of reincarnation of Stefan Dusan."
@ Shpetim
re history of ancient Serbian Albo likes, a lot of back history mentions the Emperor Dusan. (1357yr.) On my part no question for albo for taht , he know history of Emperor Dusan, also not far back, you must know when albo came from Sicily in the Drach (March, 1043yr.) with the George Maniac. You tell me or any Albo how your leader George is went with the Greeks?
Do not touch the bear, the bear has an awkward paw.
pre 12 godina
@ Pristina
No more free human trafficking to the flea market. Time is over bro.
pre 12 godina
My leader? I don't have one, I don't even vote!!! What the hell are you talking about? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or something?
pre 12 godina
What do you think possible solutions could be?
(aaayyy, 25 November 2011 22:40)
I couldn't fit all the potential solutions on one page, but we are familiar with most of the options.
But I'm certain that a pre-condition to any solution is to create some trust and a true desire for compromise and a realisation that things will only get worse the long everything drags on.
What would be the deciding factor would be in the Serbian / Kos Albanian public put pressure upon politicians to resolve this. All of a sudden the cowards would be ready to reach a deal, because they would no longer be afraid of being voted out. The (courageous) politicians that started the (peace) process in such a political environment would stand to benefit having put their necks on the line in the first place.
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of vested interests - related to crime for example who will lose business, but perhaps some of that fraternity will even see greater profits with a resolution to Kosovo.
This is what should happen, but it likely won't, because we have people who are afraid, unimaginative, settle back into the laziness of hatred etc. We also have outside factors that are obstructing more than helping, whether they know it or not. So in the end when we do have a final settlement it will be a mixture of what I outlined and of an outside influenced (or forced) solution.
The current negotiations do not look anything like a final settlement as we all know.
Peggy I don't have a magic wand solution. A solution is what is achieved through (detailed and hard fought) negotiation. We are familiar with most options. All we can do is to try to create the best possible conditions which I've tried to state, but currently we don't have those conditions.
I think that if Serbs and Kosovo Albanians agreed some kind of solution that didn't involve war then the US (and others) would be forced to support it. Of course in this theoretical scenario the US could try to obstruct and could easily succeed if they wanted. More likely that they would have their political favourites, whilst for example a more pro European (ie financed by) Kos Alb political party would support the solution. It is an important point that you make - there would have to be at least tacit backing from one outside political factor.
Zoran you should know by now not to set too much stall at a forum such as this one. But we are, would not say headed - we are there already, living in very difficult times and there is little sign that things will get better anytime soon.
pre 12 godina
Dacic made the Kosovan Serbs to ask for Russian Citizenship and now he is going to ask people of Serbia to say that they are Russians too, and ask Russia to give a piece of pepper to everyone in Serbia which confirms a Russian citizenship.
This man should move to Russia as he does not belong in Balkans.
pre 12 godina
"Dacic is the incarnation of Milosevic,"
@Miri
Your comparison Dacic - Milosevic is a very bad comparison.
Why have not you written Dacic - Karadjordje.
pre 12 godina
Zoran yes obviously you are capable of putting something out there rationally, without the silliness. Although I still find your attempts at humour pretty cringworthy at times.
In the end you are advocating a policy of waiting, of doing nothing until Russia gets more clout and the Serbian position grows stronger. How long should we wait 10 years, 20 years, or longer for example?
What if in that time more Serbs leave Kosovo and by the time Russia has more influence (and the US less influence) there are no Serbs left in Kosovo? The only way to keep them there in any numbers as you know is to support them from the Serbian budget. How much will that cost over the waiting period? How much will be lost in terms of economic growth for example as a result of this waiting policy?
Yes, it is pretty easy to describe how things will nicely pan out in theory, but in life things rarely go like that.
pre 12 godina
Sure, “IF”… that says it all. Not sure though a cold mind would decide to invest on something that depends on such “IF” which has no prospect to be realized in the foreseeable future.
(icj1, 25 November 2011 18:42)
the Chinese could invest...
pre 12 godina
bganon, let me be clear. Given the current circumstances in KiM, Russia is providing sufficient support. They are at the correct distance (in terms of diplomacy) and they don't need to provide more for now. We can call on them at the appropriate times and they will be there.
Now on the other hand, the US moved close to Georgia and attempted to help it reclaim control of Ab and SO militarily. That ended up backfiring and made the situation worse as Russia and other countries then recognised Ab and SO as independent.
Russia doesn't need to get any closer to Serbia right now and provoke any kind of conflict that would surely make the Serbian position worse. However, as the situation evolves, so will Russian support. The nature of the current position by NATO, the EU and Albanians is not sustainable in the longer term and it will also backfire on them.
When Serbia's position gets stronger, so will Russian support. Now it is in Russia's interest to support Serbia for the simple fact that if it doesn't, we will be forced into NATO and work against them. They have a choice of supporting an ally or gaining an enemy. Pretty easy isn't it?
pre 12 godina
Russians had/have obligations (at least moral ones) toward Abhazians and Ossetians who didn't want to seccede from the USSR as a part of Georgia.
(aaayyy, 24 November 2011 21:17)
Seccede from the USSR ? What did it mean to seccede from something that did not exist ?!
Mate, don't you know that USSR was simply dissolved. With the exception of the 3 baltic states, nobody else secceded from the USSR prior to the its dissolution.
pre 12 godina
"they were busy doing the same damn thing during the (earlier) balkan wars, and even before"
@...
If Serb dont' do this, Albania will be not recorded in histoty at all.
pre 12 godina
You really do seem to have a mechanical mind. Maybe you can answer this, are you a Serb? I have my doubts because you seem to lack the emotional attachment that one has to their nationality and culture.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Oh dear, you still don’t understand that only mechanical minds and cold reasoning brings you to the right decisions. Emotional attachment is good for deciding about your partner not for taking financial, economic, or political decisions. Financial, economic, or political decisions based on emotions have brought many countries to or close to ruin. For example we’ve heard in these forums that China should happily lose its lifetime savings, just for having the joy of causing some suffering to the Americans :)
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But yes, it is going to cost Serbia a lot to support those living in KiM but who's complaining?
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Of course, if the money of 7M should be wasted for the benefit of 0.07M, that’s fine :) There is only a small problem that Serbia is broke… For more information just click the link “Economic crisis in Serbia” on the right of this page.
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The emotional, historical and cultural attachment Serbians have to KiM justifies the means.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Of course, but the means are limited. Serbia has to decide whether to spend money that benefits 7M people of 0.07M people – money and emotions don’t go well together.
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But you tell me then, what do you propose? The sell-outs would prefer to abandon them and negotiate KiM for a rotten EU carrot, that is fairly obvious.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Whether Serbia gets the rotten EU carrot or not, does not get back KiM. Serbia can get back KiM when it convinces the KiM inhabitants that life with Serbia is much better than life independent from Serbia. History has many examples where one country has happily joined another country because of the prospect of better life. I’d be happy if the inhabitants of Kosovo were to decide in the future to join Serbia.
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And it is a waiting game. If negotiations do not produce a fair compromise and the geopolitical situation changes in Serbia's favour, which is what I expect, then we again have the edge. I wouldn't like to say what that means for KiM Albanians but I have an idea.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 16:46)
Sure, “IF”… that says it all. Not sure though a cold mind would decide to invest on something that depends on such “IF” which has no prospect to be realized in the foreseeable future.
pre 12 godina
A pipe dream? Well, is it? Now think about it, do you really think that all diplomatic avenues have been explored? Do you really think that this current pathetic lot of politicians are capable of a compromise solution.
(bganon, 25 November 2011 20:11)
--
And that is the problem. The current lot of pathetic politicians do not have the capacity to make the right compromise. The sell-outs just want to sell-out. The Albanians just want it all and the US has too much of an ego to sit down and become a neutral facilitator.
One thing we can agree on is that the best option is a fair compromise and true reconciliation but I really think we have gone beyond the point of return. I hope that I am wrong though judging by the comments I read here I have my doubts.
Personally, I think the world is heading for some very difficult times and I don't base that on logic.
pre 12 godina
Why? Does Kosovo belong to NATO?
(Peggy, 24 November 2011 21:00)
Why? Does Kosovo belong to Serbia?
=======================
Of course it does. Kosovo is part of Serbia. Do you own an Atlas?
pre 12 godina
Bgannon, all I can say is, You're dreaming.
You make it sound like Serbs have any power in coming to or implementing an agreement.
I truly believe that Serbs want an agreement and are more than ready to compromise, people and politicians but this is not a way way street. Albanians don't have any interest and that is Albanian population and their leadership. Well, not for as long as they are backed by America which has an interest in Kosovo.
So please stop dreaming that if only Serbia had guts to negotiate seriously it would happen.
Serbia has been totally taken out of the loop. Albanians are getting their directions from the US and nobody is listening to Serbia.
Tell me, how do you think Serbia has not shown genuine interest in reaching a settlement? What else can they do? I am getting tired of you saying we haven't done all we can but you don't offer one thing that Serbia can do which has not been done yet.
You say there are many, but please offer us at least one possibility that has not been tried yet.
pre 12 godina
Less talk more action, put your money where your mouth is!!
pre 12 godina
Sure, “IF”… that says it all. Not sure though a cold mind would decide to invest on something that depends on such “IF” which has no prospect to be realized in the foreseeable future.
(icj1, 25 November 2011 18:42)
--
Well, if you ask me, I think WWIII has started.
pre 12 godina
Hell its not rocket science, this type of move is how conflicts are solved.
(bganon, 25 November 2011 20:11)
=========================
Why don't you just tell us what you think the solution is? How are you going to get through to the KLA who have absolutely no reason to negotiate?
Even if you convinced the Albanians who have zero control of what happens there how are you going to implement this new unity when the west clearly doesn't want it?
You make a wonderful speech, worthy of a Nobel Prize, just like Obama did and actually got that prize but just like with Obama, it was only a speech and nothing was sorted out and no peace achieved.
pre 12 godina
Well, if you ask me, I think WWIII has started.
(Zoran, 25 November 2011 21:49)
Oh great... How if the fighting going ? (btw who is fighting :) )
pre 12 godina
the Chinese could invest...
(aaayyy, 25 November 2011 20:00)
I know that would make you happy, but the Chinese are not a charitable organization. Their money comes first for them, not you happiness. The Chinese are busy investing in more secure things, like US government debt. The Chinese, my friend, don't invest based on emotions, but based on risk and return.
pre 12 godina
What do you think possible solutions could be?
(aaayyy, 25 November 2011 22:40)
One that is in accordance with Resolution 1244. No ?
pre 12 godina
Instead of balance of friendliness, love or balance of good neighbourly relations, it is "balance of of fear". That is what Serbia needs after loosing almost all and slipping into decandence in the last couple of decade. This guy is a raging lunatic.
pre 12 godina
Tell me, how do you think Serbia has not shown genuine interest in reaching a settlement? What else can they do? I am getting tired of you saying we haven't done all we can but you don't offer one thing that Serbia can do which has not been done yet.
You say there are many, but please offer us at least one possibility that has not been tried yet.
(Peggy, 27 November 2011 02:41)
For example, offer Kosovo Albanians the right to vote for Serbia's constitution;
For example, offer Kosovo Albanians a veto right over changes to Serbia's Constitution (similarly to the veto right that Kosovo's Constitution offers to Kosovo Serbs).
pre 12 godina
Threats only encourage others to turn against you.
pre 12 godina
bganon,
There are multiple potential solutions to be explored.
Hell its not rocket science, this type of move is how conflicts are solved.
(bganon, 25 November 2011 20:11)
What do you think possible solutions could be?
pre 12 godina
For example, offer Kosovo Albanians a veto right over changes to Serbia's Constitution (similarly to the veto right that Kosovo's Constitution offers to Kosovo Serbs).
(icj1, 27 November 2011 20:43)
==============================
Are you crazy? Might as well give you the keys to the presidential office.
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