"Churches in Kosovo are, and will remain Serbian"

Who cares what you think about church, religion, and Kosovo. If I believe in god, I believe in god. Those churches in Kosovo are there, whether you believe in god or not, they exist and should be protected. As for why Serbs could not keep it...well then, next time I see you out on the streets, perhaps I should beat the crap out of you with 19 others and steal your money and car. I mean hey, if you're not able to hold on to it then it's only fair that I get to take it.

the only thing you albanians brought to kosovo is crime -drugs woman and children slave trade o yeah. organ. harvesting

@ rich. mind your own business this mess would've never happened if you the yank's never got involved in our business .you are a goddles country you belive in nothing but greed .those are our churches our fathers and grandfathers built centuries ago ....if you have no faith in god what do you have faith in we will never let our heritage in kosovo be taken away from us. no matter how many wars to come. c c c c 1389

Hey clown, those churches are not serbian...

Is planet Mars also Serbian? Pluto je Srbija?

Get over yourself.
(KOSO, 8 November 2011 20:29)

To argue that the holy churches of Kosovo are not Serbian is a bit like saying that the Great Wall of China is Welsh.

Next time you lot try to re-write history, try doing a more convincing job because your last effort went down like a French Kiss at a funeral.

To all of you religion believers religion and churches are nothing but opium look at around the word people fight for religion every day and they are in 400 pieces. Serbia needs to move on and stop acting like its the year of 1600. Great Kosovo was Serbia at least that is what you claim I have one question why you could not keep it!!! Yea you could not because you nation is filled with bunch of egomaniacs!

Rich, I will pray that your hateful and ignorant self improves.

Great Kosovo was Serbia at least that is what you claim I have one question why you could not keep it!!! Yea you could not because you nation is filled with bunch of egomaniacs!
(Rich, 8 November 2011 18:46)
-----------------------

I have a question for you. If religion is to repulsive to you and those churches don't mean anything why do you want to take them? Why do you want to claim them as "Kosovar" property which in turn of course means Albanian?
Would love to get an answer.

Hey clown, those churches are not serbian...

Is planet Mars also Serbian? Pluto je Srbija?

Get over yourself.
(KOSO, 8 November 2011 20:29)


Do you have any reasonable explaination why they are not Serbian?

whoever said that the serbian churches in kosovo are not serbian. i am being very open minded and am more than willing to accept anything that might happen in the future. BUT!.... If those churches either A. are destroyed, or B. converted to mosques. There will be much bloodshed. No matter what the U.N or NATO says. Serbia will go in with full force onto Kosovo once more. Be careful what you say, because that is on arrogant and ignorant comment

Rich,

Ever heard of demographic changes and theft of land?

@rich
This all happened because the Serbs are tolerant and nice towards non Serbs including Albanians.
That is why many Albanians settled in Kosovo, no problem.
But are Albanians in Kosovo tolerant? No they are not they are: expansionists/colonists and everything non albanian has to leave from where they live or become one of them.
For example Serbian Muslims in Orhaovac who also spoke albanian in 1900,now their great grandchildren are 100% pure albanian and there are many more ex-serbs like that in kosovo and the rest of the Balkans.

Like I said if Serbs where like Greeks/Turks/Albanians/Croats/.....
Do you know what these 4 ethnic groups have in common?

They all ethnically cleansed their minorities 80-100 years ago!
Serbs didn't do it and this is a consequence of it.


Again If milosevic wanted he could send all Albanians out from Kosovo he didn't do it!!!
If he did then he was a bad guy but he didn't.
Even so with NATO occupation, Kosovo will always be part of Serbia hence kosovo=Serbia end of story.

Hey clown, those churches are not serbian...

Is planet Mars also Serbian? Pluto je Srbija?

Get over yourself.

Could not care less if those churches would be Serbian, Albanian or from outer space...

Not all churchs are serbian, some are before the arrival of serbs and some are albanian. Even if you look at some of the frescoes they look albanian and not serbian just like the ones in greece and italy. You also cant take all the churchs also, liturgy in serbian conquered lands was in serbian doesnt mean they were serbian. So it will be interesting of the hundreds of churches, 4 might be serbian

''I have a question for you. If religion is to repulsive to you and those churches don't mean anything why do you want to take them? Why do you want to claim them as "Kosovar" property which in turn of course means Albanian?
Would love to get an answer.
(Peggy, 8 November 2011 21:01) ''

Becasue albanians used to be christian before converting to islam 300 years ago , now many are atheist...it would be like trukey claiming mosques are ankara property of unesco or whatever...or grece and italy claiming the property of our churches, next day people here would burn what enver hoxha skipped because of ''architectural values'', these days people here are missing e. hoxha for his mway of dealing with judeo-islamic ideologies although he took all our property and left the mess we still are in...kosovo is a weak country, because it has a weak state, but in several decades from now kosovo will either be in UN, or another northen albanian municipality... the only way to solve kosovo problem is to send 10 or 20 thousand of our boys in a NATO mission there...

Not all churchs are serbian, some are before the arrival of serbs and some are albanian. Even if you look at some of the frescoes they look albanian and not serbian just like the ones in greece and italy. You also cant take all the churchs also, liturgy in serbian conquered lands was in serbian doesnt mean they were serbian. So it will be interesting of the hundreds of churches, 4 might be serbian
(ozzie, 8 November 2011 22:34)
========================

Can you prove any of this?
We have asked you guys to prove any heritage in Kosovo over and over again, but all we get is hot air.
Proof mate, or walk away.

I am sure that Srb dhiaspora has build churches where they live,Australia,South Africa ectr.
Why dont they claim these countries too?

You build these churches in Kosova ,this is the truth,same as Spanish build there churches in Latin America.

This effort to create a false Kosovar identity to wipe serbs from the history of Kosovo is digusting and disturbing. There is no such thing as a Kosovar. They do not exist. There are albanians and serbs and other groups but no such kosovar group exists. There is no such thing as Kosovar Orthodox or a Kosovar Monastary. They do not exist. It is Serbian orthodox. Serb monasteries. Serb bishops not any nonsense like a Kosovar bishop. This effor to destroy serbian heritage in Kosovo is disgusting

But Kosovo is Serbia. It's been Serbian for centuries. Now it's up to you to prove that it was ever Albanian.
(Peggy, 9 November 2011 11:24)

Peggy!

It’s not difficult to prove that Kosova is Albanian. For that I need all census data of Yugoslavia. Even they are forged I’ll accept as they are, cause always the Albanian component was the Majority in what is today Kosova. What happens is that during Yugoslavia times you grab some land and push the Albanians from Nis to the border of today Kosova. You know very well and this is why you go in 13th century , cause you hope to confuse the third parties with your mythology and legends.Have you here something for the exhange of people that you have done with Turkye in the first decades of 19ties. Those people you like to call Turks, but them was majority muslim Albanian.

Iliri, you really don't make any sense at all.
Unless Albanians built those churches they are NOT YOURS. Serbs have built them and they will always remain Serbian.
Just because you have NOTHING OF YOUR OWN is not our fault. Stop stealing what is ours.

Proof mate, or walk away.(Peggy, 9 November 2011 09:09)

lets see how many are admited. you cant handle the truth, you would twist it into some kind of conspiracy for nationalisim blah blah, but history should be devoid of this and the words should flow of how at a point in history we did get along and intermarried as they are now and so what some church are not albanian and so what some churchs are not serbian it doesnt make either race good or bad. You preach religion but i dont see any of you practicing the vrtues of faith which is more important, the destruction of yugoslavia was the destruction of various races , murder and plunder and loss of life family and friends.
churchs have been built in kosovo since 1st before the arrival of serbians, acctually serbians even built churchs on top of destroyed ones and serbians also built them while they were in kosovo and when i say serbian i mean state, the people is another thing alltogether, what happened to the people who were in kosovo as the serbs arrived and what happened as the serbian kigdom expanded and took ghegs albanian all the way to greece and became arvanites and what happened to the albanians as the ottomans arrived moved to italy they all still carry the albanian ev-13 of which the serbians have 20% its funny the ghegs who survived & left the battle of kosovo and went to italy dont have any of the serbian dna. albanians were pagen first then orthodox some become catholic during the schism. albanian were the last to fall and most became muslim a divided people, kicked out and shipped out from greece to serbia. it doesnt mean we never built a church prayed or celebrate the orthodox festivities even as muslims. its fine by me i dont really care here or there, but at some point the truth however we interpret it must be told and bring peace reconcilation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Menekulo_szerbek.JPG
this is not traditional serbian clothing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angjelina_Arianit_Komneni

enjoy i hope i havent ruffulled any feathers

As for why Serbs could not keep it...well then, next time I see you out on the streets, perhaps I should beat the crap out of you with 19 others and steal your money and car. I mean hey, if you're not able to hold on to it then it's only fair that I get to take it.
(Aleks, 8 November 2011 20:20)
I think you just uncovered why you could not keep it. As Serbs you felt this was your God given right towards the Albanians in Kosovo, unfortunately for you the world disagreed.

Does not sound like a Kosovo is Serbia speech does it. The churches will always be Serbian not Kosovar. I think Vuk is trying to tell you something.

My point is. This is an archeological and scientific discussion. Let suppose for a moment that this churches are build from Serbs rulers. Nobody is against me if I say that every ruler construct its state and religious institutions in the soil that he rule. For example we have in Albania historic sites constructed by Romans, Byzantines, and Ottomans. All this sites doesn’t prove that this land was inhabited by Romans, Byzantines or Ottomans people, but only prove that was ruled for a short or long period by them. Nor Italy, nor Greece, nor Turkey, are asking for the heritage of this sites. You Serbs grouse that the World is against you. Have you ask yourself if your requests make any sense?

(iliri, 8 November 2011 23:43)
So these Churches are all Albanian you say. If that is the case why then burn them, destroy your valuable history etc???????????? Let me say this when Albanians converted to Islam then you would have converted the Churches to mosques – look at St Sophia in Istanbul.
You have a very poor argument to say the least.
“solve kosovo problem is to send 10 or 20 thousand of our boys in a NATO mission there”.
And what would happen then? You people could not put together a decent company of men let alone 20000 to 30000 – why fantasize about this? And naturally it’s always NATO mission never on their own.

Very similar to what the Turks did in Cyprus, they looted and estroyed ancient orthodox churches

I think we should all be looking at this from the legal point of view. First of all the Sebian Orthodox churches were build by a legally internationally recognised body - The Serbian Orthodox Church! They have cadasteral records pertaining to ownership. Therefore the churches are Serbian property and not anyone elses!

Now, when the Albanians destroy one of these churches they are in fact breaking the law, just as if we were to destroy any legally built mosque in any part of the former Yugoslavia which belongs to the Legal Islamic organisations or institutions therein!

If however the Kosovar Albanians won legal possession of our churches in Kosovo then destroying them, say for legal planning purposes, would no longer be a crime and any rampage in which our churches were destroyed by the mob would be a local crime and legally out of our Serbian hands.

This government in Belgrade has given them everything else in Kosovo so just watch as they throw in our churches too! Oh yes, there will be cries of protest an shock and terror but all that will be forgotten when the big EU comes to wipe our runny noses for us with yet more empty promises of membership of the third class cabins on the Titanic!

Is God exclusively Serbian?

Those churches are build in Albanian foundation and can never be a Serbian.They were Albanian Catholic churches before you occupied Dardania aka (Kosova).To some of you that I am sur you do not know were Kosova is I give you a lot of reasons to belive that they were Albanian.Just go to Bar (Tivar) in Montenegro.Shas near Ulcinj 365 Albanian churches with 100% Albanian population and 99% of those turn muslim.Just 27 years ago Serbian church (Albanian workers)took everything out from the graves and put Serbian croses.Everything is recorded.Village of Ljare in 100% Albanian Krajina Srbs gather every year to celebrate Vidovdan thinking it is their church just to provoke.takes an hour drive from Bar to go there and there is 0% serbian population.Another one is Rumija mounten also in Bar (Tivar)and so and so on and on.

peggy
lets start with the capitulation of the serbs albanians bosnians hungarians and who ever else in kosovo polije against the ottomans, on that day and a couple of hundred years before and no more was kosovo serbian oh yeah when the ottomans fell till the end of the kosovo war, ill let you do the maths.

Dear AAAYYY,
Hungary is on you criterion a full status nation and Vojvodina was till end of WWII a Magyar territory, about Kosovo you nuance only question the right of its existence not the right of invade Presevo or if it exists it have by the Serbian behavior on north Kosovo the right either invade its land controlled by serbs or invade a Serbian land inhabited by Kosovars it’s the reciprocity right. Kosovo is now a full nation because it have full institutions and control of its territory (except north of course) and additionally is recognized by majority of important nations, the jeremic claim of the need of Serbian approval is a nonsense arrogance only and the usurpation of international chairs of former Yugoslavia by Serbia is not compatible with the politic fact, URSS split don’t put Russia like its successor, Serbia used its WW2 propaganda and the army for try put all former Yugoslavia territory on Serbian control. Serbia lost the war and its very ally USA prevented Croatian tanks took Belgrade, USA, Russia and Brussels protect Belgrade of its madness same when bombing it, if Serbian army would ethnically cleansed Kosovo a new total balkanic war involving Albania hungary Croatia Bosnia Macedonia and perhaps Montenegro and Bulgaria would be impossible stop and Serbia would be the big loser, frights me the idea voiced by jeremic like the the “UNESCO attack” like a personal victory of him, the guy seems determined to prove that he can put extreme pressure on Serbia neighbors like demonstration of his personal competence, the Serbian state interest is putting then on second level, his childish behavior only heat the scenario and turns possible a new balkanic war and at contrary of the opinion of Serbian guys posted here it will not a nuclear war between Russia USA and perhaps China intervention and so on, the balkanic scenario is now only a local scenario and Serbia have all condition of lose on fight all lands annexed to it till the dismembering of the Austrian empire. The “partisan spirit” cited by Tadic is old fashioned now and will put Serbia on ruins probably, Serbia needs a 21 century approach and politicians that now is only labeled like traitors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Serbmigra.jpg
they are not wearing traditional serbian cloths in this painting why? why are the peasants wearing albanian clothing but not the plis. could they possibly be orthodox albanian being led by the orthodox clergy and serbian military out of kosovo. great migration?????

"now now, no need to be dull. they are in kosovo. They are not in serbia."
===========================

But Kosovo is Serbia. It's been Serbian for centuries. Now it's up to you to prove that it was ever Albanian.

Can you prove any of this?
We have asked you guys to prove any heritage in Kosovo over and over again, but all we get is hot air.
Proof mate, or walk away.
(Peggy, 9 November 2011 09:09)

That is the problem. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever to these ridiculous claims. It is a fact that these people are claiming to be the descendants of the old Illyrians and have occupied the Kosovo region for several millennia, but there is not even a cave painting attributed to the Albanians.
The Turks ruled the region for about 600 years and they have left building, roads etc, but the Albanians not even a hut so the next best thing is “these are our churches”, but when you pose the question when have the Albanians used the old Slavonic writing on their icons in these churches, there is only silence.
I have no idea what this means “frescoes they look Albanian and not Serbian just like the ones in greece and italy’. What does an Albanian fresco look like? Is the saint trying to sell watches?
The very fact that they burn these Churches down tells it all. If they were Albanian why would anyone destroy their own culture?

Well spoken Rich

Take all the Serbian churches down and re-build them in Belgrade.

Perfect solution and everybody happy!
(FREEDOM, 9 November 2011 09:01)

Good idea! But I have another one, maybe even better: Take all Albanians and transfer them to Albania, perfect solutions, Albanians want to live in Albania, anyway, and everybody happy.

@ozzie
and other albanians.
These Churches are Serbian!

THat picture that you showed what proof do you have that the people on that picture are albanian?
If you look closer then you will see that they wear Opanaks= serbian traditional boots!
The sanskrit word for boots=opaanah serbian: opanci/opanak
Etruscan wore these traditional serbian boots.
Another thing in the 1600s great serbian migrations are called serbian migrations serbs lived there 800 years at least! furthermore in 1455 98% according to the turks were Serbs!
For the Byzantines Serbs and triballians where one and the same!

But according to modern history suddenly in the 7th century slavs came to the Balkans and everybody became slavic, slavs came to germany and hungary and everybody became slavic.

Do you really thing that would be the case?
the turks where in the Balkans 500years is everybody turkish there?
Germans lived in Prague since the 12th century and they never became a majority in the Chech republic.

Sorry to say but Albanians you came from outside Europe and people who are now Albanian are also from Serbian/Greek/Vlach/roma/turk/italian/macedonian descend!

Serbian churches are the property of SOC.None of albanians want your churches.Keep them but dont use as an excuse to make trouble in Kosova.

I am orthodox myself and only in Serbia I have seen orthodox priests bless serbian solders This is a shame for SOC.
If this is your church keep it we dont need an institution who advocates murder and rape for nonserbs.

What did the serbs find when they occupied those territories in the 12 century? Empty lands, no people, no religion ??? Or indians of North America?

Well spoken Rich

Take all the Serbian churches down and re-build them in Belgrade.

Perfect solution and everybody happy!

Kosovo have now right of create parallel structures on presevo valley and hungary on vojvodina too
(Wowww, 9 November 2011 03:38)

Serbia and "Kosovo" have a little bit different statuses. While Serbia is full functioning state, "Kosovo" isn't recognized as such by the most countries, including two permanent SC members.
So one shouldn't compare Serbian institutions in Northern Kosovo and virtual "Kosovo's" institutions in Presevo.

"Churches in Kosovo are, and will remain Serbian"

Of course, the same way that churches in, say, New York are and will remain catholic or protestant or the mosques in Kosovo are and will remain islamic. Not sure I see something earth-shattering here...

''I have a question for you. If religion is to repulsive to you and those churches don't mean anything why do you want to take them? Why do you want to claim them as "Kosovar" property which in turn of course means Albanian?
Would love to get an answer.
(Peggy, 8 November 2011 21:01) ''

now now, no need to be dull. they are in kosovo. They are not in serbia.
what you pretend not to understand...is that no one cares about your mythology. It has no basis in reality.

"kosovo" didnt even exist in serbian mentallity until hundreds of years after the fact as a psudeo "christian" church desperate to assert its authority after losing a seat of short lived political power in a non existent "empire" fed mythology to a populace it sought to control.

so sad that the least thing they were interested in teaching...is what was actually in the bible.

serbs were serb before kosovo, serbs are serb now. your delusions mean less than nothing.

but feel free to visit pegster... albanians will Allow it.

As long as those churches pay electricity to our king Thaci, they can call themselves whatever they want.

Churches in Kosovo are, and will remain Serbian ??

--??
It's very simple.
PASSPORTS
BORDER CONTROL

The real question is not if the churches are Serbian or Albanians or if its have historical meaning for be preserved like cultural patrimony but if UNESCO will be used like political weapon, the invasion of another nation by allegation that some pieces of land (the land or what was build on it) have historic value for another nation and then must be owned by the “historic proprietary” create a very dangerous concept on international law, in Europe many countries can claim lands of foreign nation by allegation of cultural or historic value of its country or race in it, this is the past or worse the personal vision of a group of the past molding the present and dismantling the victimized state on implementation of its protection of its past. Jeremic loudly declares that now having a seat on UNESCO many new serbs historical sites will be added to today list so Kosovo will lose autonomy because the international “cultural intervention” will prevail above the normal state´s rights, Serbia will rule Kosovo by his protection of its heritage!!!
This is a very case for international court, the political use of UNESCO, Kosovo have righto of dismantle the Serbian churches on his territory and use its catholic foundations on some of its for reconstructs its own history or what else wants, a memorial for the victims of 1990 by sample, the Serbian intervention on Kosovo soil is just a steal of land and take of control of the power of state from the Kosovar hands.
I wonder, any Serbian know where is located the infamous site where the serbs lost a battle on a distant century and now it turn all Kosovo “Serbian cradle”? but now a piece of land of perhaps 30km2 by 40km2 can be took like archaeological site for Serbian excavation on quest of its past, so roads need be build for Serbian access and hotels etc all a infrastructure, a serbian Disneyland into the Kosovo nation, all under chancel of UNESCO!!!!
Serbian politicians are very creative and one sided on his “creations”, Kosovo have now right of create parallel structures on presevo valley and hungary on vojvodina too, the multicultural nation concept was twisted by serbs like the right the serbs invade its neighbors like and then take control, the reconciliation is now rewrite the history putting the serbs like victims of Croatians Kosovares bosnians etc and put all neighbor nations under law suits, etc etc but now I think that this last creation of the jeremic´s mind is very daring same in Serbian standards.

Ever heard of demographic changes and theft of land?
(Dragan, Toronto, 8 November 2011 23:28)

Oh yeah, we have heard of lot of that... For example, when Serbs arrived in Kosovo X thousand of years ago they stole the land from Y who lived in Kosovo before Serbs. Another example, when Albanians arrived in Kosovo Z years ago, they stole the land from the Serbs. There are plenty of examples like that all over the world, my friend. But I'm not sure why you were curious about this !

Don't really understand why there is so much energy spent on this subject. Serbian Orthodox Churches will always be considered the property of the churchs. Calling them Kosovo historical sites or Serbian historical sites will not change that. And that was the only thing that was up for discussion whether these were Kosovo historical sites or Serbian historical sites.
All the rest of the rhetoric is baseless. It does not change the face of Kosovo today which is greater than 90% Albanian. UNESCO has no enforcement mandate. They assist in causes and provide money(if they have any left) for projects such as restoration. They intervene diplomatically in situations.
It is not going to save the churches from distruction, should Kosovo, Serbia, or Timbuktu be in control of the area in 50 years.
But making the distinction that the churches belong to Serbia instead of Kosovo does have plitical ramifications it is an acknwledgement that there is a disconnection of Kosovo from Serbia.
You do notice this is a one sided argument don't you. Have you seen anything in print on a daily basis that is arguing in the contrary. There was some small interest by some countries to designate these sites as historical Kosovo histrical sites, it did not go anywhere. But Serbia has made this into a major battle and waving the flag of victory while there was never anyone else on the battlefield.
Sounds more like smokescreen to me, what is it that the Serbian leadership is trying to distract attention to? That is the question people should be more interested in.

"Hungary is on you criterion a full status nation and Vojvodina was till end of WWII a Magyar territory"
(to aaayyy)
-------------
Right now Vojvodina has Serb majority. End of WWII was rather long ago.
-------------
"Kosovo is now a full nation because it have full institutions and control of its territory (except north of course) and additionally is recognized by majority of important nations"
(to aaayyy)
-------------
Kosovo isn't a full nation, it is a disputed territory, just google a little bit on the issue. Kosovo isn't recognized by the majority of countries holding the majority of the world population - China,Russia,India,Brasil, etc.
-------------
the jeremic claim of the need of Serbian approval is a nonsense arrogance
(to aaayyy)
-------------
The need of Serbian approval isn't nonsense arrogance, but demant of international law.
-------------
only and the usurpation of international chairs of former Yugoslavia by Serbia is not compatible with the politic fact, URSS split don’t put Russia like its successor,
(to aaayyy)
-------------
Russia IS juridical successor of the USSR and Serbia IS juridical successor of Yugoslavia. Just google on the term "juridical successor"
-------------
Serbia used its WW2 propaganda and the army for try put all former Yugoslavia territory on Serbian control.
(to aaayyy)
-------------
Actually Serbia tried to put all territories with Serb majority on Serbian control and keep the territory of former Serbian Republic in YU.
As it saw that disintegration of YU was unavoidable due to lack of loyalty to it from Slovenians, Croats and Albanians.
-------------
Serbia lost the war and its very ally USA prevented Croatian tanks took Belgrade
(to aaayyy)
-------------
????????????? links, please
-------------
USA, Russia and Brussels protect Belgrade of its madness same when bombing it
(aaayyy)
-------------
Russia didn't bomb Serbia, it was strictly against it, but it didn't want to have seriouse conflict with NATO over Serbia, so Russia didn't take seriose steps to prevent the bombing.
-------------
if Serbian army would ethnically cleansed Kosovo a new total balkanic war involving Albania hungary Croatia Bosnia Macedonia and perhaps Montenegro and Bulgaria would be impossible [to] stop and Serbia would be the big loser
(aaayyy)
-------------
if Serbian army had ethnically cleansed Kosovo, it would have been ethnically clean Kosovo, nothing more, no more wars. Except may be minor short-term conflict with Albania.
Actually Milosevic tried to move population to make it more convinient for the army to fight the KLA.
-------------
frights me the idea voiced by jeremic like the the “UNESCO attack” like a personal victory of him, the guy seems determined to prove that he can put extreme pressure on Serbia neighbors like demonstration of his personal competence, the Serbian state interest is putting then on second level
(to aaayyy)
-------------
Kosovo issue is important for many Serbs, so Jeremic tries his best to do something over the issue
-------------
The “partisan spirit” cited by Tadic is old fashioned now and will put Serbia on ruins probably
(to aaayyy)
-------------
I am not sure “partisan spirit” is so old fashioned - Albanians used it and gained a lot.
And what should Kosovo Serbs do? Bow to Thaci?
-------------
Serbia needs a 21 century approach and politicians that now is only labeled like traitors.
(to aaayyy)
-------------
and what is a 21 century approach? All people's self-determination is important except Serbian?

''Iliri, you really don't make any sense at all.
Unless Albanians built those churches they are NOT YOURS. Serbs have built them and they will always remain Serbian.
Just because you have NOTHING OF YOUR OWN is not our fault. Stop stealing what is ours.
(Peggy, 9 November 2011 09:07) ''

No Peggy, they were built by byzantine craftsmen ... talking about architecture, that is a reason why enver hoxha did not destroy many old churches and mosques in albania, communism destroyed 80% of religous buildings, but left the most valuable ones...it is enjoyfull to see slavs care about religous heritage, while more important heritage is being destroyed in fyrom as we speak, building a church over an unexplored antique castle is the worst crime to history of mankind as a whole...personally i couldn't care less about religion, even if i could , misteriously though, the only albanian medieval church in fyrom burned last year because of a short electrical circuit, the church itself was just four walls and a roof, what were important were the books there, as many books were in albanian...ordinary alabnians, being atheist, don't care about these events...churches in our lands in former jugoslavia have lost historical importance for us, as their frescos have been faked to suit slavic purposes, i say we destroy them brick by brick and explore their foundations, then we shall x-ray every single brick, rock or piece, and reproduce them as they trully were before serbs faked them to look the way they wanted them to look..., by default, christian churches were built over pagan temples, and the pagan temples are more important to study our origins than buidings built by jewish-islamic-semite ideologies...for us albanians is more important studying antiquity than medieval stages of history, and the only way to study antiquity is to send our archeologists to serbia and bosnia to study our antique castles...

Ok aaayyy, you want polemizes with biased allegations, I will try one more
"Hungary is on you criterion a full status nation and Vojvodina was till end of WWII a Magyar territory"
(to aaayyy)
---…--
Right now Vojvodina has Serb majority. End of WWII was rather long ago.
----
** You changed the parameter now, you want the parameter population for vojvodina that suffered Serbian cleaning and “international law” for Kosovo and then you win the 2 scenarios…. Kosovo have a population majoritary alban and you don’t presented any legal right for possess Vojvodina so you serb eyes are dictating a “perfect solution” for each case.
---…--
"Kosovo is now a full nation because it have full institutions and control of its territory (except north of course) and additionally is recognized by majority of important nations"
(to aaayyy)
---…--
Kosovo isn't a full nation, it is a disputed territory, just google a little bit on the issue. Kosovo isn't recognized by the majority of countries holding the majority of the world population - China,Russia,India,Brasil, etc.
** why you put population here like parameter and not economy? You ever choose the customized solution no? Kosovo don’t need diplomatic approval of all foreign states for exist, this is a “Serbian exigency”, Kosovo have institutions and sovereignty over its soil and recognizing orf the most important world players Serbia is unable of revert the situation and try diplomatic games and false premises for propaganda.

---…--

the jeremic claim of the need of Serbian approval is a nonsense arrogance
(to aaayyy)
---…--
The need of Serbian approval isn't nonsense arrogance, but demant of international law.
** What international law? Nations under control of abroad powers can by his own will liberate itselves from slavery, the history is dynamic there are no international law that immobilize the world map, jeremic hear this simple truth of ICJ.

---…--
only and the usurpation of international chairs of former Yugoslavia by Serbia is not compatible with the politic fact, URSS split don’t put Russia like its successor,
(to aaayyy)
---…--
Russia IS juridical successor of the USSR and Serbia IS juridical successor of Yugoslavia. Just google on the term "juridical successor"

** Juridical successor don’t can impede the other nations of have its own identity, Russia responds for the former URSS but Ukraine, Belarus etc all had seat of international organizations on time of the URSS dismembering, this is the question: Serbia want suffocate all others nations that was under Yugoslavia umbrella and this is illegal on international law.

---…--
Serbia used its WW2 propaganda and the army for try put all former Yugoslavia territory on Serbian control.
(to aaayyy)
---…--
Actually Serbia tried to put all territories with Serb majority on Serbian control and keep the territory of former Serbian Republic in YU.
As it saw that disintegration of YU was unavoidable due to lack of loyalty to it from Slovenians, Croats and Albanians.
** So here we have the point, you want treat the other nations like serbia´s slaves with no loyalty, croats Albanians ans Slovenian are not serbs and did not want live under Serbia control there are no international law that put theses peoples like Serbian slaves. Summarizing Serbia have a realpolitik of past centuries when the stronger dominated the weak, this “Serbian dream” is not possible now you only can cry “disloyalty”.


---…--
Serbia lost the war and its very ally USA prevented Croatian tanks took Belgrade
(to aaayyy)
---…--
???…?? links, please

** well you are a informed person, you need the hague confirmation for the Serbian genocide committed against bosniaks? You believe that Serbia win the Balkan war? You believe that Croatia didn t want impose to Serbia the total victory that the allies imposed to Nazis? You can do your researches but here the case is of negation



---…--
USA, Russia and Brussels protect Belgrade of its madness same when bombing it
(aaayyy)
---…--
Russia didn't bomb Serbia, it was strictly against it, but it didn't want to have seriouse conflict with NATO over Serbia, so Russia didn't take seriose steps to prevent the bombing.

*** Of course not, USA Russia and Brussels are friends of Serbia and USA stopping the Serbian army of cleaning Kosovo with NATO air strikes. Serbia wants use Russia power like its personal straw dog but Russia is not a powerful nation without no brains, the Slavic brotherhood is just another Serbian try so Russia did not defend the Serbian madness on 1990 and now want payment for its services and not candy words.

---…--
if Serbian army would ethnically cleansed Kosovo a new total balkanic war involving Albania hungary Croatia Bosnia Macedonia and perhaps Montenegro and Bulgaria would be impossible [to] stop and Serbia would be the big loser
(aaayyy)
---…--
if Serbian army had ethnically cleansed Kosovo, it would have been ethnically clean Kosovo, nothing more, no more wars. Except may be minor short-term conflict with Albania.
Actually Milosevic tried to move population to make it more convinient for the army to fight the KLA.
*** Short term conflict with Albania ….. perfect
Milosevic was right on his genocidal path KLA are only criminals haahaaahaa I read this on daily basis here but I don’t want discuss poor propaganda



---…--
frights me the idea voiced by jeremic like the the “UNESCO attack” like a personal victory of him, the guy seems determined to prove that he can put extreme pressure on Serbia neighbors like demonstration of his personal competence, the Serbian state interest is putting then on second level
(to aaayyy)
---…--
Kosovo issue is important for many Serbs, so Jeremic tries his best to do something over the issue
*** The serbian elite wants all territory of the former Yugoslavia, jeremic is only another milosevic


---…--
The “partisan spirit” cited by Tadic is old fashioned now and will put Serbia on ruins probably
(to aaayyy)
---…--
I am not sure “partisan spirit” is so old fashioned - Albanians used it and gained a lot.
And what should Kosovo Serbs do? Bow to Thaci?

*** no one want real Serbian lands but all want its grabbed land returned.


---…--
Serbia needs a 21 century approach and politicians that now is only labeled like traitors.
(to aaayyy)
---…--

and what is a 21 century approach? All people's self-determination is important except Serbian?
(aaayyy, 9 November 2011 16:40)

*** In short 21 century approach is Serbia live inside its territory and have good neighborhood policy

''(iliri, 8 November 2011 23:43)
So these Churches are all Albanian you say. If that is the case why then burn them, destroy your valuable history etc???…?? ''

LOL Nobody said it was valuable history, churches and mosques are the living examples of how inavders have been fooling us throughout history...sounds more like an historical insult to me...

''Let me say this when Albanians converted to Islam then you would have converted the Churches to mosques – look at St Sophia in Istanbul.''

Many albanians remained christian, especially the ones living in remote areas in north and south, peasants mostly, the important albanian cities emerged in 17-18 centuries, because of commerce, that is how islam spread, because of taxes, the muslims and christians generally livd in seperate neighbourhoods if not mixed, and each of the communites built churches or mosques in their own neighbourhood...that is why early mosques date 18th-19th century...also, mostly, albanians did not go to mosque after converting, they became part of another muslim order that albanian recruits worshiped, they had buildings known as teqe, which were more of a pagan kind... mosques and clock towers were built by albanian rich and powerful pashas, as it was the trend of the time, it had to do more with show of power, to show who ruled the city, but islam here was liberal, they drank alcohol, and did not even pray, at least i read so in Edith Durham notes...
''You have a very poor argument to say the least.''
Of course, my argument is poor. I don2t light candles and kiss priest's hand, or listen to the friday prayer...never in my life.
“solve kosovo problem is to send 10 or 20 thousand of our boys in a NATO mission there”.
And what would happen then? You people could not put together a decent company of men let alone 20000 to 30000 – why fantasize about this? And naturally it’s always NATO mission never on their own.
(sj, 9 November 2011 08:00)''

Nato or not, it worked for us...success is achieved slowly and sleek :) not brutal force is needed.

*** no one want real Serbian lands but all want its grabbed land returned.
(to aaayyy)
----------------
Now Kosovo Albanians want Kosovo North. Is Kosovo North their grabbed land which they want to return?

Do you know better then anybody else where real Serbian lands are?
------------
** why you put population here like parameter and not economy?
(to aaayyy)
Why do you think that only countries with developed economies matter? How racist of you…
Kosovo have institutions and sovereignty over its soil
(to aaayyy)
-----
“Kosovo” hasn’t got institutions in Kosovo North and sovereignty over it.
-----
** So here we have the point, you want treat the other nations like serbia´s slaves with no loyalty, croats Albanians ans Slovenian are not serbs and did not want live under Serbia control there are no international law that put theses peoples like Serbian slaves. Summarizing Serbia have a realpolitik of past centuries when the stronger dominated the weak, this “Serbian dream” is not possible now you only can cry “disloyalty”.
(to aaayyy)
-----
You missed the point completely, as usual. The point was that Serbia didn’t want to impose Serbian control on Slovenia and the most of Croatia.
-----
USA prevented Croatian tanks took Belgrade
(to aaayyy)
---…--
???…?? links, please
------
** well you are a informed person, you need the hague confirmation for the Serbian genocide committed against bosniaks? You believe that Serbia win the Balkan war? You believe that Croatia didn t want impose to Serbia the total victory that the allies imposed to Nazis? You can do your researches but here the case is of negation
(to aaayyy)
------------
I did researches (rather many for a foreigner) but never read Croatia was in a position to send tanks to take Belgrade. You have opened my eyes. Do you happen to confuse Belgrade and Banja Luka?

Serbia and "Kosovo" have a little bit different statuses. While Serbia is full functioning state, "Kosovo" isn't recognized as such by the most countries, including two permanent SC members.
(aaayyy, 9 November 2011 12:41)


According to my records the majority of the countries have not stated that they recognize Kosovo as part of Serbia; only about 20 have stated that. So, I'm not sure in what dream you saw "most" of countries sayind that they recognize Kosovo as part of Serbia!

Why do you think that only countries with developed economies matter? How racist of you…
(aaayyy, 9 November 2011 23:52)

That is not a matter of thinking my friend; it’s reality, even though I may not like it. 1.000 rich people have more power than 1.000.000 poor people; I know it’s unfair, but that’s how it is. So, I’d prefer to have the 1.000 rich on my side than the 1.000.000 poor. We have to act in accordance with reality not with our wishes. By the way, that does not mean to be “racist”. Racist is somebody who discriminates based on race; nobody is speaking about race here – we’re speaking about rich and poor.

To all of you religion believers religion and churches are nothing but opium look at around the word people fight for religion every day and they are in 400 pieces. Serbia needs to move on and stop acting like its the year of 1600. Great Kosovo was Serbia at least that is what you claim I have one question why you could not keep it!!! Yea you could not because you nation is filled with bunch of egomaniacs!

Hey clown, those churches are not serbian...

Is planet Mars also Serbian? Pluto je Srbija?

Get over yourself.

Not all churchs are serbian, some are before the arrival of serbs and some are albanian. Even if you look at some of the frescoes they look albanian and not serbian just like the ones in greece and italy. You also cant take all the churchs also, liturgy in serbian conquered lands was in serbian doesnt mean they were serbian. So it will be interesting of the hundreds of churches, 4 might be serbian

As for why Serbs could not keep it...well then, next time I see you out on the streets, perhaps I should beat the crap out of you with 19 others and steal your money and car. I mean hey, if you're not able to hold on to it then it's only fair that I get to take it.
(Aleks, 8 November 2011 20:20)
I think you just uncovered why you could not keep it. As Serbs you felt this was your God given right towards the Albanians in Kosovo, unfortunately for you the world disagreed.

''I have a question for you. If religion is to repulsive to you and those churches don't mean anything why do you want to take them? Why do you want to claim them as "Kosovar" property which in turn of course means Albanian?
Would love to get an answer.
(Peggy, 8 November 2011 21:01) ''

Becasue albanians used to be christian before converting to islam 300 years ago , now many are atheist...it would be like trukey claiming mosques are ankara property of unesco or whatever...or grece and italy claiming the property of our churches, next day people here would burn what enver hoxha skipped because of ''architectural values'', these days people here are missing e. hoxha for his mway of dealing with judeo-islamic ideologies although he took all our property and left the mess we still are in...kosovo is a weak country, because it has a weak state, but in several decades from now kosovo will either be in UN, or another northen albanian municipality... the only way to solve kosovo problem is to send 10 or 20 thousand of our boys in a NATO mission there...

Could not care less if those churches would be Serbian, Albanian or from outer space...

Rich, I will pray that your hateful and ignorant self improves.

@ rich. mind your own business this mess would've never happened if you the yank's never got involved in our business .you are a goddles country you belive in nothing but greed .those are our churches our fathers and grandfathers built centuries ago ....if you have no faith in god what do you have faith in we will never let our heritage in kosovo be taken away from us. no matter how many wars to come. c c c c 1389

Great Kosovo was Serbia at least that is what you claim I have one question why you could not keep it!!! Yea you could not because you nation is filled with bunch of egomaniacs!
(Rich, 8 November 2011 18:46)
-----------------------

I have a question for you. If religion is to repulsive to you and those churches don't mean anything why do you want to take them? Why do you want to claim them as "Kosovar" property which in turn of course means Albanian?
Would love to get an answer.

Hey clown, those churches are not serbian...

Is planet Mars also Serbian? Pluto je Srbija?

Get over yourself.
(KOSO, 8 November 2011 20:29)

To argue that the holy churches of Kosovo are not Serbian is a bit like saying that the Great Wall of China is Welsh.

Next time you lot try to re-write history, try doing a more convincing job because your last effort went down like a French Kiss at a funeral.

Rich,

Ever heard of demographic changes and theft of land?

"Churches in Kosovo are, and will remain Serbian"

Of course, the same way that churches in, say, New York are and will remain catholic or protestant or the mosques in Kosovo are and will remain islamic. Not sure I see something earth-shattering here...

@rich
This all happened because the Serbs are tolerant and nice towards non Serbs including Albanians.
That is why many Albanians settled in Kosovo, no problem.
But are Albanians in Kosovo tolerant? No they are not they are: expansionists/colonists and everything non albanian has to leave from where they live or become one of them.
For example Serbian Muslims in Orhaovac who also spoke albanian in 1900,now their great grandchildren are 100% pure albanian and there are many more ex-serbs like that in kosovo and the rest of the Balkans.

Like I said if Serbs where like Greeks/Turks/Albanians/Croats/.....
Do you know what these 4 ethnic groups have in common?

They all ethnically cleansed their minorities 80-100 years ago!
Serbs didn't do it and this is a consequence of it.


Again If milosevic wanted he could send all Albanians out from Kosovo he didn't do it!!!
If he did then he was a bad guy but he didn't.
Even so with NATO occupation, Kosovo will always be part of Serbia hence kosovo=Serbia end of story.

Those churches are build in Albanian foundation and can never be a Serbian.They were Albanian Catholic churches before you occupied Dardania aka (Kosova).To some of you that I am sur you do not know were Kosova is I give you a lot of reasons to belive that they were Albanian.Just go to Bar (Tivar) in Montenegro.Shas near Ulcinj 365 Albanian churches with 100% Albanian population and 99% of those turn muslim.Just 27 years ago Serbian church (Albanian workers)took everything out from the graves and put Serbian croses.Everything is recorded.Village of Ljare in 100% Albanian Krajina Srbs gather every year to celebrate Vidovdan thinking it is their church just to provoke.takes an hour drive from Bar to go there and there is 0% serbian population.Another one is Rumija mounten also in Bar (Tivar)and so and so on and on.

Iliri, you really don't make any sense at all.
Unless Albanians built those churches they are NOT YOURS. Serbs have built them and they will always remain Serbian.
Just because you have NOTHING OF YOUR OWN is not our fault. Stop stealing what is ours.

Who cares what you think about church, religion, and Kosovo. If I believe in god, I believe in god. Those churches in Kosovo are there, whether you believe in god or not, they exist and should be protected. As for why Serbs could not keep it...well then, next time I see you out on the streets, perhaps I should beat the crap out of you with 19 others and steal your money and car. I mean hey, if you're not able to hold on to it then it's only fair that I get to take it.

whoever said that the serbian churches in kosovo are not serbian. i am being very open minded and am more than willing to accept anything that might happen in the future. BUT!.... If those churches either A. are destroyed, or B. converted to mosques. There will be much bloodshed. No matter what the U.N or NATO says. Serbia will go in with full force onto Kosovo once more. Be careful what you say, because that is on arrogant and ignorant comment

the only thing you albanians brought to kosovo is crime -drugs woman and children slave trade o yeah. organ. harvesting

Well spoken Rich

Take all the Serbian churches down and re-build them in Belgrade.

Perfect solution and everybody happy!

Not all churchs are serbian, some are before the arrival of serbs and some are albanian. Even if you look at some of the frescoes they look albanian and not serbian just like the ones in greece and italy. You also cant take all the churchs also, liturgy in serbian conquered lands was in serbian doesnt mean they were serbian. So it will be interesting of the hundreds of churches, 4 might be serbian
(ozzie, 8 November 2011 22:34)
========================

Can you prove any of this?
We have asked you guys to prove any heritage in Kosovo over and over again, but all we get is hot air.
Proof mate, or walk away.

Hey clown, those churches are not serbian...

Is planet Mars also Serbian? Pluto je Srbija?

Get over yourself.
(KOSO, 8 November 2011 20:29)


Do you have any reasonable explaination why they are not Serbian?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Serbmigra.jpg
they are not wearing traditional serbian cloths in this painting why? why are the peasants wearing albanian clothing but not the plis. could they possibly be orthodox albanian being led by the orthodox clergy and serbian military out of kosovo. great migration?????

Don't really understand why there is so much energy spent on this subject. Serbian Orthodox Churches will always be considered the property of the churchs. Calling them Kosovo historical sites or Serbian historical sites will not change that. And that was the only thing that was up for discussion whether these were Kosovo historical sites or Serbian historical sites.
All the rest of the rhetoric is baseless. It does not change the face of Kosovo today which is greater than 90% Albanian. UNESCO has no enforcement mandate. They assist in causes and provide money(if they have any left) for projects such as restoration. They intervene diplomatically in situations.
It is not going to save the churches from distruction, should Kosovo, Serbia, or Timbuktu be in control of the area in 50 years.
But making the distinction that the churches belong to Serbia instead of Kosovo does have plitical ramifications it is an acknwledgement that there is a disconnection of Kosovo from Serbia.
You do notice this is a one sided argument don't you. Have you seen anything in print on a daily basis that is arguing in the contrary. There was some small interest by some countries to designate these sites as historical Kosovo histrical sites, it did not go anywhere. But Serbia has made this into a major battle and waving the flag of victory while there was never anyone else on the battlefield.
Sounds more like smokescreen to me, what is it that the Serbian leadership is trying to distract attention to? That is the question people should be more interested in.

Churches in Kosovo are, and will remain Serbian ??

--??
It's very simple.
PASSPORTS
BORDER CONTROL

What did the serbs find when they occupied those territories in the 12 century? Empty lands, no people, no religion ??? Or indians of North America?

''I have a question for you. If religion is to repulsive to you and those churches don't mean anything why do you want to take them? Why do you want to claim them as "Kosovar" property which in turn of course means Albanian?
Would love to get an answer.
(Peggy, 8 November 2011 21:01) ''

now now, no need to be dull. they are in kosovo. They are not in serbia.
what you pretend not to understand...is that no one cares about your mythology. It has no basis in reality.

"kosovo" didnt even exist in serbian mentallity until hundreds of years after the fact as a psudeo "christian" church desperate to assert its authority after losing a seat of short lived political power in a non existent "empire" fed mythology to a populace it sought to control.

so sad that the least thing they were interested in teaching...is what was actually in the bible.

serbs were serb before kosovo, serbs are serb now. your delusions mean less than nothing.

but feel free to visit pegster... albanians will Allow it.

My point is. This is an archeological and scientific discussion. Let suppose for a moment that this churches are build from Serbs rulers. Nobody is against me if I say that every ruler construct its state and religious institutions in the soil that he rule. For example we have in Albania historic sites constructed by Romans, Byzantines, and Ottomans. All this sites doesn’t prove that this land was inhabited by Romans, Byzantines or Ottomans people, but only prove that was ruled for a short or long period by them. Nor Italy, nor Greece, nor Turkey, are asking for the heritage of this sites. You Serbs grouse that the World is against you. Have you ask yourself if your requests make any sense?

"now now, no need to be dull. they are in kosovo. They are not in serbia."
===========================

But Kosovo is Serbia. It's been Serbian for centuries. Now it's up to you to prove that it was ever Albanian.

peggy
lets start with the capitulation of the serbs albanians bosnians hungarians and who ever else in kosovo polije against the ottomans, on that day and a couple of hundred years before and no more was kosovo serbian oh yeah when the ottomans fell till the end of the kosovo war, ill let you do the maths.

Well spoken Rich

Take all the Serbian churches down and re-build them in Belgrade.

Perfect solution and everybody happy!
(FREEDOM, 9 November 2011 09:01)

Good idea! But I have another one, maybe even better: Take all Albanians and transfer them to Albania, perfect solutions, Albanians want to live in Albania, anyway, and everybody happy.

Ever heard of demographic changes and theft of land?
(Dragan, Toronto, 8 November 2011 23:28)

Oh yeah, we have heard of lot of that... For example, when Serbs arrived in Kosovo X thousand of years ago they stole the land from Y who lived in Kosovo before Serbs. Another example, when Albanians arrived in Kosovo Z years ago, they stole the land from the Serbs. There are plenty of examples like that all over the world, my friend. But I'm not sure why you were curious about this !

Proof mate, or walk away.(Peggy, 9 November 2011 09:09)

lets see how many are admited. you cant handle the truth, you would twist it into some kind of conspiracy for nationalisim blah blah, but history should be devoid of this and the words should flow of how at a point in history we did get along and intermarried as they are now and so what some church are not albanian and so what some churchs are not serbian it doesnt make either race good or bad. You preach religion but i dont see any of you practicing the vrtues of faith which is more important, the destruction of yugoslavia was the destruction of various races , murder and plunder and loss of life family and friends.
churchs have been built in kosovo since 1st before the arrival of serbians, acctually serbians even built churchs on top of destroyed ones and serbians also built them while they were in kosovo and when i say serbian i mean state, the people is another thing alltogether, what happened to the people who were in kosovo as the serbs arrived and what happened as the serbian kigdom expanded and took ghegs albanian all the way to greece and became arvanites and what happened to the albanians as the ottomans arrived moved to italy they all still carry the albanian ev-13 of which the serbians have 20% its funny the ghegs who survived & left the battle of kosovo and went to italy dont have any of the serbian dna. albanians were pagen first then orthodox some become catholic during the schism. albanian were the last to fall and most became muslim a divided people, kicked out and shipped out from greece to serbia. it doesnt mean we never built a church prayed or celebrate the orthodox festivities even as muslims. its fine by me i dont really care here or there, but at some point the truth however we interpret it must be told and bring peace reconcilation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Menekulo_szerbek.JPG
this is not traditional serbian clothing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angjelina_Arianit_Komneni

enjoy i hope i havent ruffulled any feathers

I am sure that Srb dhiaspora has build churches where they live,Australia,South Africa ectr.
Why dont they claim these countries too?

You build these churches in Kosova ,this is the truth,same as Spanish build there churches in Latin America.

Kosovo have now right of create parallel structures on presevo valley and hungary on vojvodina too
(Wowww, 9 November 2011 03:38)

Serbia and "Kosovo" have a little bit different statuses. While Serbia is full functioning state, "Kosovo" isn't recognized as such by the most countries, including two permanent SC members.
So one shouldn't compare Serbian institutions in Northern Kosovo and virtual "Kosovo's" institutions in Presevo.

''(iliri, 8 November 2011 23:43)
So these Churches are all Albanian you say. If that is the case why then burn them, destroy your valuable history etc???…?? ''

LOL Nobody said it was valuable history, churches and mosques are the living examples of how inavders have been fooling us throughout history...sounds more like an historical insult to me...

''Let me say this when Albanians converted to Islam then you would have converted the Churches to mosques – look at St Sophia in Istanbul.''

Many albanians remained christian, especially the ones living in remote areas in north and south, peasants mostly, the important albanian cities emerged in 17-18 centuries, because of commerce, that is how islam spread, because of taxes, the muslims and christians generally livd in seperate neighbourhoods if not mixed, and each of the communites built churches or mosques in their own neighbourhood...that is why early mosques date 18th-19th century...also, mostly, albanians did not go to mosque after converting, they became part of another muslim order that albanian recruits worshiped, they had buildings known as teqe, which were more of a pagan kind... mosques and clock towers were built by albanian rich and powerful pashas, as it was the trend of the time, it had to do more with show of power, to show who ruled the city, but islam here was liberal, they drank alcohol, and did not even pray, at least i read so in Edith Durham notes...
''You have a very poor argument to say the least.''
Of course, my argument is poor. I don2t light candles and kiss priest's hand, or listen to the friday prayer...never in my life.
“solve kosovo problem is to send 10 or 20 thousand of our boys in a NATO mission there”.
And what would happen then? You people could not put together a decent company of men let alone 20000 to 30000 – why fantasize about this? And naturally it’s always NATO mission never on their own.
(sj, 9 November 2011 08:00)''

Nato or not, it worked for us...success is achieved slowly and sleek :) not brutal force is needed.

Can you prove any of this?
We have asked you guys to prove any heritage in Kosovo over and over again, but all we get is hot air.
Proof mate, or walk away.
(Peggy, 9 November 2011 09:09)

That is the problem. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever to these ridiculous claims. It is a fact that these people are claiming to be the descendants of the old Illyrians and have occupied the Kosovo region for several millennia, but there is not even a cave painting attributed to the Albanians.
The Turks ruled the region for about 600 years and they have left building, roads etc, but the Albanians not even a hut so the next best thing is “these are our churches”, but when you pose the question when have the Albanians used the old Slavonic writing on their icons in these churches, there is only silence.
I have no idea what this means “frescoes they look Albanian and not Serbian just like the ones in greece and italy’. What does an Albanian fresco look like? Is the saint trying to sell watches?
The very fact that they burn these Churches down tells it all. If they were Albanian why would anyone destroy their own culture?

But Kosovo is Serbia. It's been Serbian for centuries. Now it's up to you to prove that it was ever Albanian.
(Peggy, 9 November 2011 11:24)

Peggy!

It’s not difficult to prove that Kosova is Albanian. For that I need all census data of Yugoslavia. Even they are forged I’ll accept as they are, cause always the Albanian component was the Majority in what is today Kosova. What happens is that during Yugoslavia times you grab some land and push the Albanians from Nis to the border of today Kosova. You know very well and this is why you go in 13th century , cause you hope to confuse the third parties with your mythology and legends.Have you here something for the exhange of people that you have done with Turkye in the first decades of 19ties. Those people you like to call Turks, but them was majority muslim Albanian.

(iliri, 8 November 2011 23:43)
So these Churches are all Albanian you say. If that is the case why then burn them, destroy your valuable history etc???????????? Let me say this when Albanians converted to Islam then you would have converted the Churches to mosques – look at St Sophia in Istanbul.
You have a very poor argument to say the least.
“solve kosovo problem is to send 10 or 20 thousand of our boys in a NATO mission there”.
And what would happen then? You people could not put together a decent company of men let alone 20000 to 30000 – why fantasize about this? And naturally it’s always NATO mission never on their own.

''Iliri, you really don't make any sense at all.
Unless Albanians built those churches they are NOT YOURS. Serbs have built them and they will always remain Serbian.
Just because you have NOTHING OF YOUR OWN is not our fault. Stop stealing what is ours.
(Peggy, 9 November 2011 09:07) ''

No Peggy, they were built by byzantine craftsmen ... talking about architecture, that is a reason why enver hoxha did not destroy many old churches and mosques in albania, communism destroyed 80% of religous buildings, but left the most valuable ones...it is enjoyfull to see slavs care about religous heritage, while more important heritage is being destroyed in fyrom as we speak, building a church over an unexplored antique castle is the worst crime to history of mankind as a whole...personally i couldn't care less about religion, even if i could , misteriously though, the only albanian medieval church in fyrom burned last year because of a short electrical circuit, the church itself was just four walls and a roof, what were important were the books there, as many books were in albanian...ordinary alabnians, being atheist, don't care about these events...churches in our lands in former jugoslavia have lost historical importance for us, as their frescos have been faked to suit slavic purposes, i say we destroy them brick by brick and explore their foundations, then we shall x-ray every single brick, rock or piece, and reproduce them as they trully were before serbs faked them to look the way they wanted them to look..., by default, christian churches were built over pagan temples, and the pagan temples are more important to study our origins than buidings built by jewish-islamic-semite ideologies...for us albanians is more important studying antiquity than medieval stages of history, and the only way to study antiquity is to send our archeologists to serbia and bosnia to study our antique castles...

The real question is not if the churches are Serbian or Albanians or if its have historical meaning for be preserved like cultural patrimony but if UNESCO will be used like political weapon, the invasion of another nation by allegation that some pieces of land (the land or what was build on it) have historic value for another nation and then must be owned by the “historic proprietary” create a very dangerous concept on international law, in Europe many countries can claim lands of foreign nation by allegation of cultural or historic value of its country or race in it, this is the past or worse the personal vision of a group of the past molding the present and dismantling the victimized state on implementation of its protection of its past. Jeremic loudly declares that now having a seat on UNESCO many new serbs historical sites will be added to today list so Kosovo will lose autonomy because the international “cultural intervention” will prevail above the normal state´s rights, Serbia will rule Kosovo by his protection of its heritage!!!
This is a very case for international court, the political use of UNESCO, Kosovo have righto of dismantle the Serbian churches on his territory and use its catholic foundations on some of its for reconstructs its own history or what else wants, a memorial for the victims of 1990 by sample, the Serbian intervention on Kosovo soil is just a steal of land and take of control of the power of state from the Kosovar hands.
I wonder, any Serbian know where is located the infamous site where the serbs lost a battle on a distant century and now it turn all Kosovo “Serbian cradle”? but now a piece of land of perhaps 30km2 by 40km2 can be took like archaeological site for Serbian excavation on quest of its past, so roads need be build for Serbian access and hotels etc all a infrastructure, a serbian Disneyland into the Kosovo nation, all under chancel of UNESCO!!!!
Serbian politicians are very creative and one sided on his “creations”, Kosovo have now right of create parallel structures on presevo valley and hungary on vojvodina too, the multicultural nation concept was twisted by serbs like the right the serbs invade its neighbors like and then take control, the reconciliation is now rewrite the history putting the serbs like victims of Croatians Kosovares bosnians etc and put all neighbor nations under law suits, etc etc but now I think that this last creation of the jeremic´s mind is very daring same in Serbian standards.

Dear AAAYYY,
Hungary is on you criterion a full status nation and Vojvodina was till end of WWII a Magyar territory, about Kosovo you nuance only question the right of its existence not the right of invade Presevo or if it exists it have by the Serbian behavior on north Kosovo the right either invade its land controlled by serbs or invade a Serbian land inhabited by Kosovars it’s the reciprocity right. Kosovo is now a full nation because it have full institutions and control of its territory (except north of course) and additionally is recognized by majority of important nations, the jeremic claim of the need of Serbian approval is a nonsense arrogance only and the usurpation of international chairs of former Yugoslavia by Serbia is not compatible with the politic fact, URSS split don’t put Russia like its successor, Serbia used its WW2 propaganda and the army for try put all former Yugoslavia territory on Serbian control. Serbia lost the war and its very ally USA prevented Croatian tanks took Belgrade, USA, Russia and Brussels protect Belgrade of its madness same when bombing it, if Serbian army would ethnically cleansed Kosovo a new total balkanic war involving Albania hungary Croatia Bosnia Macedonia and perhaps Montenegro and Bulgaria would be impossible stop and Serbia would be the big loser, frights me the idea voiced by jeremic like the the “UNESCO attack” like a personal victory of him, the guy seems determined to prove that he can put extreme pressure on Serbia neighbors like demonstration of his personal competence, the Serbian state interest is putting then on second level, his childish behavior only heat the scenario and turns possible a new balkanic war and at contrary of the opinion of Serbian guys posted here it will not a nuclear war between Russia USA and perhaps China intervention and so on, the balkanic scenario is now only a local scenario and Serbia have all condition of lose on fight all lands annexed to it till the dismembering of the Austrian empire. The “partisan spirit” cited by Tadic is old fashioned now and will put Serbia on ruins probably, Serbia needs a 21 century approach and politicians that now is only labeled like traitors.

Serbian churches are the property of SOC.None of albanians want your churches.Keep them but dont use as an excuse to make trouble in Kosova.

I am orthodox myself and only in Serbia I have seen orthodox priests bless serbian solders This is a shame for SOC.
If this is your church keep it we dont need an institution who advocates murder and rape for nonserbs.

This effort to create a false Kosovar identity to wipe serbs from the history of Kosovo is digusting and disturbing. There is no such thing as a Kosovar. They do not exist. There are albanians and serbs and other groups but no such kosovar group exists. There is no such thing as Kosovar Orthodox or a Kosovar Monastary. They do not exist. It is Serbian orthodox. Serb monasteries. Serb bishops not any nonsense like a Kosovar bishop. This effor to destroy serbian heritage in Kosovo is disgusting

As long as those churches pay electricity to our king Thaci, they can call themselves whatever they want.

"Hungary is on you criterion a full status nation and Vojvodina was till end of WWII a Magyar territory"
(to aaayyy)
-------------
Right now Vojvodina has Serb majority. End of WWII was rather long ago.
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"Kosovo is now a full nation because it have full institutions and control of its territory (except north of course) and additionally is recognized by majority of important nations"
(to aaayyy)
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Kosovo isn't a full nation, it is a disputed territory, just google a little bit on the issue. Kosovo isn't recognized by the majority of countries holding the majority of the world population - China,Russia,India,Brasil, etc.
-------------
the jeremic claim of the need of Serbian approval is a nonsense arrogance
(to aaayyy)
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The need of Serbian approval isn't nonsense arrogance, but demant of international law.
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only and the usurpation of international chairs of former Yugoslavia by Serbia is not compatible with the politic fact, URSS split don’t put Russia like its successor,
(to aaayyy)
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Russia IS juridical successor of the USSR and Serbia IS juridical successor of Yugoslavia. Just google on the term "juridical successor"
-------------
Serbia used its WW2 propaganda and the army for try put all former Yugoslavia territory on Serbian control.
(to aaayyy)
-------------
Actually Serbia tried to put all territories with Serb majority on Serbian control and keep the territory of former Serbian Republic in YU.
As it saw that disintegration of YU was unavoidable due to lack of loyalty to it from Slovenians, Croats and Albanians.
-------------
Serbia lost the war and its very ally USA prevented Croatian tanks took Belgrade
(to aaayyy)
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????????????? links, please
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USA, Russia and Brussels protect Belgrade of its madness same when bombing it
(aaayyy)
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Russia didn't bomb Serbia, it was strictly against it, but it didn't want to have seriouse conflict with NATO over Serbia, so Russia didn't take seriose steps to prevent the bombing.
-------------
if Serbian army would ethnically cleansed Kosovo a new total balkanic war involving Albania hungary Croatia Bosnia Macedonia and perhaps Montenegro and Bulgaria would be impossible [to] stop and Serbia would be the big loser
(aaayyy)
-------------
if Serbian army had ethnically cleansed Kosovo, it would have been ethnically clean Kosovo, nothing more, no more wars. Except may be minor short-term conflict with Albania.
Actually Milosevic tried to move population to make it more convinient for the army to fight the KLA.
-------------
frights me the idea voiced by jeremic like the the “UNESCO attack” like a personal victory of him, the guy seems determined to prove that he can put extreme pressure on Serbia neighbors like demonstration of his personal competence, the Serbian state interest is putting then on second level
(to aaayyy)
-------------
Kosovo issue is important for many Serbs, so Jeremic tries his best to do something over the issue
-------------
The “partisan spirit” cited by Tadic is old fashioned now and will put Serbia on ruins probably
(to aaayyy)
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I am not sure “partisan spirit” is so old fashioned - Albanians used it and gained a lot.
And what should Kosovo Serbs do? Bow to Thaci?
-------------
Serbia needs a 21 century approach and politicians that now is only labeled like traitors.
(to aaayyy)
-------------
and what is a 21 century approach? All people's self-determination is important except Serbian?

@ozzie
and other albanians.
These Churches are Serbian!

THat picture that you showed what proof do you have that the people on that picture are albanian?
If you look closer then you will see that they wear Opanaks= serbian traditional boots!
The sanskrit word for boots=opaanah serbian: opanci/opanak
Etruscan wore these traditional serbian boots.
Another thing in the 1600s great serbian migrations are called serbian migrations serbs lived there 800 years at least! furthermore in 1455 98% according to the turks were Serbs!
For the Byzantines Serbs and triballians where one and the same!

But according to modern history suddenly in the 7th century slavs came to the Balkans and everybody became slavic, slavs came to germany and hungary and everybody became slavic.

Do you really thing that would be the case?
the turks where in the Balkans 500years is everybody turkish there?
Germans lived in Prague since the 12th century and they never became a majority in the Chech republic.

Sorry to say but Albanians you came from outside Europe and people who are now Albanian are also from Serbian/Greek/Vlach/roma/turk/italian/macedonian descend!

Does not sound like a Kosovo is Serbia speech does it. The churches will always be Serbian not Kosovar. I think Vuk is trying to tell you something.

Why do you think that only countries with developed economies matter? How racist of you…
(aaayyy, 9 November 2011 23:52)

That is not a matter of thinking my friend; it’s reality, even though I may not like it. 1.000 rich people have more power than 1.000.000 poor people; I know it’s unfair, but that’s how it is. So, I’d prefer to have the 1.000 rich on my side than the 1.000.000 poor. We have to act in accordance with reality not with our wishes. By the way, that does not mean to be “racist”. Racist is somebody who discriminates based on race; nobody is speaking about race here – we’re speaking about rich and poor.

Very similar to what the Turks did in Cyprus, they looted and estroyed ancient orthodox churches

I think we should all be looking at this from the legal point of view. First of all the Sebian Orthodox churches were build by a legally internationally recognised body - The Serbian Orthodox Church! They have cadasteral records pertaining to ownership. Therefore the churches are Serbian property and not anyone elses!

Now, when the Albanians destroy one of these churches they are in fact breaking the law, just as if we were to destroy any legally built mosque in any part of the former Yugoslavia which belongs to the Legal Islamic organisations or institutions therein!

If however the Kosovar Albanians won legal possession of our churches in Kosovo then destroying them, say for legal planning purposes, would no longer be a crime and any rampage in which our churches were destroyed by the mob would be a local crime and legally out of our Serbian hands.

This government in Belgrade has given them everything else in Kosovo so just watch as they throw in our churches too! Oh yes, there will be cries of protest an shock and terror but all that will be forgotten when the big EU comes to wipe our runny noses for us with yet more empty promises of membership of the third class cabins on the Titanic!

Is God exclusively Serbian?

Serbia and "Kosovo" have a little bit different statuses. While Serbia is full functioning state, "Kosovo" isn't recognized as such by the most countries, including two permanent SC members.
(aaayyy, 9 November 2011 12:41)


According to my records the majority of the countries have not stated that they recognize Kosovo as part of Serbia; only about 20 have stated that. So, I'm not sure in what dream you saw "most" of countries sayind that they recognize Kosovo as part of Serbia!

Ok aaayyy, you want polemizes with biased allegations, I will try one more
"Hungary is on you criterion a full status nation and Vojvodina was till end of WWII a Magyar territory"
(to aaayyy)
---…--
Right now Vojvodina has Serb majority. End of WWII was rather long ago.
----
** You changed the parameter now, you want the parameter population for vojvodina that suffered Serbian cleaning and “international law” for Kosovo and then you win the 2 scenarios…. Kosovo have a population majoritary alban and you don’t presented any legal right for possess Vojvodina so you serb eyes are dictating a “perfect solution” for each case.
---…--
"Kosovo is now a full nation because it have full institutions and control of its territory (except north of course) and additionally is recognized by majority of important nations"
(to aaayyy)
---…--
Kosovo isn't a full nation, it is a disputed territory, just google a little bit on the issue. Kosovo isn't recognized by the majority of countries holding the majority of the world population - China,Russia,India,Brasil, etc.
** why you put population here like parameter and not economy? You ever choose the customized solution no? Kosovo don’t need diplomatic approval of all foreign states for exist, this is a “Serbian exigency”, Kosovo have institutions and sovereignty over its soil and recognizing orf the most important world players Serbia is unable of revert the situation and try diplomatic games and false premises for propaganda.

---…--

the jeremic claim of the need of Serbian approval is a nonsense arrogance
(to aaayyy)
---…--
The need of Serbian approval isn't nonsense arrogance, but demant of international law.
** What international law? Nations under control of abroad powers can by his own will liberate itselves from slavery, the history is dynamic there are no international law that immobilize the world map, jeremic hear this simple truth of ICJ.

---…--
only and the usurpation of international chairs of former Yugoslavia by Serbia is not compatible with the politic fact, URSS split don’t put Russia like its successor,
(to aaayyy)
---…--
Russia IS juridical successor of the USSR and Serbia IS juridical successor of Yugoslavia. Just google on the term "juridical successor"

** Juridical successor don’t can impede the other nations of have its own identity, Russia responds for the former URSS but Ukraine, Belarus etc all had seat of international organizations on time of the URSS dismembering, this is the question: Serbia want suffocate all others nations that was under Yugoslavia umbrella and this is illegal on international law.

---…--
Serbia used its WW2 propaganda and the army for try put all former Yugoslavia territory on Serbian control.
(to aaayyy)
---…--
Actually Serbia tried to put all territories with Serb majority on Serbian control and keep the territory of former Serbian Republic in YU.
As it saw that disintegration of YU was unavoidable due to lack of loyalty to it from Slovenians, Croats and Albanians.
** So here we have the point, you want treat the other nations like serbia´s slaves with no loyalty, croats Albanians ans Slovenian are not serbs and did not want live under Serbia control there are no international law that put theses peoples like Serbian slaves. Summarizing Serbia have a realpolitik of past centuries when the stronger dominated the weak, this “Serbian dream” is not possible now you only can cry “disloyalty”.


---…--
Serbia lost the war and its very ally USA prevented Croatian tanks took Belgrade
(to aaayyy)
---…--
???…?? links, please

** well you are a informed person, you need the hague confirmation for the Serbian genocide committed against bosniaks? You believe that Serbia win the Balkan war? You believe that Croatia didn t want impose to Serbia the total victory that the allies imposed to Nazis? You can do your researches but here the case is of negation



---…--
USA, Russia and Brussels protect Belgrade of its madness same when bombing it
(aaayyy)
---…--
Russia didn't bomb Serbia, it was strictly against it, but it didn't want to have seriouse conflict with NATO over Serbia, so Russia didn't take seriose steps to prevent the bombing.

*** Of course not, USA Russia and Brussels are friends of Serbia and USA stopping the Serbian army of cleaning Kosovo with NATO air strikes. Serbia wants use Russia power like its personal straw dog but Russia is not a powerful nation without no brains, the Slavic brotherhood is just another Serbian try so Russia did not defend the Serbian madness on 1990 and now want payment for its services and not candy words.

---…--
if Serbian army would ethnically cleansed Kosovo a new total balkanic war involving Albania hungary Croatia Bosnia Macedonia and perhaps Montenegro and Bulgaria would be impossible [to] stop and Serbia would be the big loser
(aaayyy)
---…--
if Serbian army had ethnically cleansed Kosovo, it would have been ethnically clean Kosovo, nothing more, no more wars. Except may be minor short-term conflict with Albania.
Actually Milosevic tried to move population to make it more convinient for the army to fight the KLA.
*** Short term conflict with Albania ….. perfect
Milosevic was right on his genocidal path KLA are only criminals haahaaahaa I read this on daily basis here but I don’t want discuss poor propaganda



---…--
frights me the idea voiced by jeremic like the the “UNESCO attack” like a personal victory of him, the guy seems determined to prove that he can put extreme pressure on Serbia neighbors like demonstration of his personal competence, the Serbian state interest is putting then on second level
(to aaayyy)
---…--
Kosovo issue is important for many Serbs, so Jeremic tries his best to do something over the issue
*** The serbian elite wants all territory of the former Yugoslavia, jeremic is only another milosevic


---…--
The “partisan spirit” cited by Tadic is old fashioned now and will put Serbia on ruins probably
(to aaayyy)
---…--
I am not sure “partisan spirit” is so old fashioned - Albanians used it and gained a lot.
And what should Kosovo Serbs do? Bow to Thaci?

*** no one want real Serbian lands but all want its grabbed land returned.


---…--
Serbia needs a 21 century approach and politicians that now is only labeled like traitors.
(to aaayyy)
---…--

and what is a 21 century approach? All people's self-determination is important except Serbian?
(aaayyy, 9 November 2011 16:40)

*** In short 21 century approach is Serbia live inside its territory and have good neighborhood policy

*** no one want real Serbian lands but all want its grabbed land returned.
(to aaayyy)
----------------
Now Kosovo Albanians want Kosovo North. Is Kosovo North their grabbed land which they want to return?

Do you know better then anybody else where real Serbian lands are?
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** why you put population here like parameter and not economy?
(to aaayyy)
Why do you think that only countries with developed economies matter? How racist of you…
Kosovo have institutions and sovereignty over its soil
(to aaayyy)
-----
“Kosovo” hasn’t got institutions in Kosovo North and sovereignty over it.
-----
** So here we have the point, you want treat the other nations like serbia´s slaves with no loyalty, croats Albanians ans Slovenian are not serbs and did not want live under Serbia control there are no international law that put theses peoples like Serbian slaves. Summarizing Serbia have a realpolitik of past centuries when the stronger dominated the weak, this “Serbian dream” is not possible now you only can cry “disloyalty”.
(to aaayyy)
-----
You missed the point completely, as usual. The point was that Serbia didn’t want to impose Serbian control on Slovenia and the most of Croatia.
-----
USA prevented Croatian tanks took Belgrade
(to aaayyy)
---…--
???…?? links, please
------
** well you are a informed person, you need the hague confirmation for the Serbian genocide committed against bosniaks? You believe that Serbia win the Balkan war? You believe that Croatia didn t want impose to Serbia the total victory that the allies imposed to Nazis? You can do your researches but here the case is of negation
(to aaayyy)
------------
I did researches (rather many for a foreigner) but never read Croatia was in a position to send tanks to take Belgrade. You have opened my eyes. Do you happen to confuse Belgrade and Banja Luka?