The First Municipal Court has found Jagodina Mayor and United Serbia (JS) leader Dragan Marković guilty of “serious discrimination against LGBT population“.
Your attempts to rubbish my argument are utterly pathetic. Anyway if you are from Denmark, I suggest you keep your nose out of Serbia and worry about whats going on in Denmark. Serbs dont give a damn about what you think, so dont waste your breath.
"I did it in the UK, so what I have learned is that the true doctrine of freedom of speech doesn't have exceptions. You cannot just say to someone, you are free to say what you want, but you cant say this or that. As long as someone only says something and doesn't act violently on it then there is no problem, even in that case only the violence is a crime, not the words which come out of their mouth."
And the classic response to that true doctrine of freedom of speech is this:
Are you also free to shout FIRE! FIRE! FIRE! in a movie theater full of people?
After which people panic, rushes towards the exits, and 3 people gets stampeded to death.
According to your doctrine, the person doing the shouting was only using his/her right to free speech without exceptions, and there is no problem, no crime.
If this Palma and his words encourages gay haters to go out and perform "corrective rape" (as is happening in South Africa), or to maim and injure LGB people, is he without guilt?
The same story repeating every year. Last year Irinej was "told" by justice to apologize for his hate speech against the LGBT community within a month or face consequences (and we never heard the end of that story, if he did apologize or faced any consequences). This year the exact same story repeating. Hope we will hear the end of this story. Mayor Palma may reuse the precedent set by the "best" part of Serbian society, Irinej. If a man of god does it, who does the First Municipal Court think it is, more powerful than God?!?! God would eat the first municipal court for breakfast.
I did it in the UK, so what I have learned is that the true doctrine of freedom of speech doesn't have exceptions. You cannot just say to someone, you are free to say what you want, but you cant say this or that. As long as someone only says something and doesn't act violently on it then there is no problem, even in that case only the violence is a crime, not the words which come out of their mouth. Palma did nothing but state his opinion, which he as a politician is expected to do, at least hes being honest. If the gays dont like what he says then dont vote for him, its as simple as that, they can vote for the pathetic LDP if they wish. It goes both ways anyway, where in the UK for example, I have had numerous anti-Serb remarks said to me personally and even put through the media, however they are not considered criminals, and I dont go around trying to sue people.
My point is that either practice freedom of speech or dont, just be honest. I am perfectly knowledgable on political philosophy and doctrines of a very wide rage, the freedom of speech is literally the right to say what you want, not this rubbish of saying what you want AS LONG as you dont offend minorities. I am not at all looking for sympathy of anysort, but I as a MINORITY have been offended by individuals and the mass media, but nobody speaks up, thus proving that such nonesense is one sided.
Mayor Palma is just using his freedom of speech! That is present in every democratic country!
So if Mayor Palma gets sentenced over this, then it means that there is no freedom of speech in Serbia.
(mick, 2 November 2011 20:23)
Ever heard of the basic democratic principle: You have all freedom, but only as long as you don't endanger the freedom of other people? Well, obviously not...
If you didn't do too many classes in school, or simply just didn't get it: Freedom of speech means that you aren't censored before you speak. But in case you for example insult publicly someone, or indulge yourself in public hate speech, you may end up in court to answer for your deeds.
May I ask you, SCP UK, out of curiosity: Did you do your primary and secondary school in the UK or in Serbia?
Serbia is Republic rather than a democracy , this means it is not majority rules as some like to say, it is majority rules with protections for the individual.
This man is in this job to help and serve the citizens of Jagodina and while he is free to have opinions on homosexuality, the difference here is that he has been found to be promoting hatred and intolerance rather than expressing an opinion. At a time when LGBT people are being harassed and attacked he should be trying to prevent that not encourage it.
The same people who are supporting this man now might be outraged if a politician said he was against the public protests of jews or blacks (or JS members) who were diseased. Same would apply if KFOR commander called serbs diseased and that they should not be allowed to gather in public.
Or perhaps he thinks gayness is contagious and he is worried he might catch it.
Big brother will tell us what to believe and to think.
(Mihai, 2 November 2011 16:12)
If I would be a leading politician and declare in public 'all JS members are mentally ill, retarded and should immediately be hospitalized for some medical treatment or a brain surgery' I would probably sued for defamation - or I would be sent to a doctor to check my mental state :)
That's just stupid. You can't say about something or someone to be imoral, because "it's dicrimination". The first step before they will say we can't have an opinion on what's no "right" and "wrong".
Big brother will tell us what to believe and to think.
So basically he was found guilty for using his right to freedom of speech...
It seems that as this government bends over more and more for the EU the more Serbian society is beginning to turn into a society like in Britain, where unless your views correspond with the supposed liberal mainstream view you cannot speak your mind because it turns automatically into discrimination, espeically on the issue with homosexuality where one word against them even uttered and you can be tried under the pathetic anti-discrimination act. This doesn't sound like democracy to me, I mean if you are acting violently towards homosexuals that is a different matter, but a society where one cannot even say what he or she thinks is not desirable at all.
If Serbs are going to live in a democracy then lets live in a democracy, but lets stop this BS where we pretend that democracy has prevailed in Serbia but then start convicting people for speaking their minds.
It is a big change in consciousness for people to change from seeing LG etc. as wrong, to seeing it as an accepted part of society.
It is the necessary effect of a liberal constitution that prejudice must be over-ruled in favour of individual rights.
Other countries have been through this change of consciousness - now Serbia is having to come to terms with it.
Public officials have to obey the law or they will bring the law into disrepute. If they are not able to fulfil their promises to up-hold the law, they should do the honourable thing and resign.
The constitution stands, and is a matter for parliament, not a matter for small-town majors or party leaders to go against the law and the constitution. If they want to change the constitution bring it to parliament - alternatively, up-hold the law or resign.
That's just stupid. You can't say about something or someone to be imoral, because "it's dicrimination". The first step before they will say we can't have an opinion on what's no "right" and "wrong".
Big brother will tell us what to believe and to think.
So basically he was found guilty for using his right to freedom of speech...
It seems that as this government bends over more and more for the EU the more Serbian society is beginning to turn into a society like in Britain, where unless your views correspond with the supposed liberal mainstream view you cannot speak your mind because it turns automatically into discrimination, espeically on the issue with homosexuality where one word against them even uttered and you can be tried under the pathetic anti-discrimination act. This doesn't sound like democracy to me, I mean if you are acting violently towards homosexuals that is a different matter, but a society where one cannot even say what he or she thinks is not desirable at all.
If Serbs are going to live in a democracy then lets live in a democracy, but lets stop this BS where we pretend that democracy has prevailed in Serbia but then start convicting people for speaking their minds.
It is a big change in consciousness for people to change from seeing LG etc. as wrong, to seeing it as an accepted part of society.
It is the necessary effect of a liberal constitution that prejudice must be over-ruled in favour of individual rights.
Other countries have been through this change of consciousness - now Serbia is having to come to terms with it.
Public officials have to obey the law or they will bring the law into disrepute. If they are not able to fulfil their promises to up-hold the law, they should do the honourable thing and resign.
The constitution stands, and is a matter for parliament, not a matter for small-town majors or party leaders to go against the law and the constitution. If they want to change the constitution bring it to parliament - alternatively, up-hold the law or resign.
Big brother will tell us what to believe and to think.
(Mihai, 2 November 2011 16:12)
If I would be a leading politician and declare in public 'all JS members are mentally ill, retarded and should immediately be hospitalized for some medical treatment or a brain surgery' I would probably sued for defamation - or I would be sent to a doctor to check my mental state :)
If you didn't do too many classes in school, or simply just didn't get it: Freedom of speech means that you aren't censored before you speak. But in case you for example insult publicly someone, or indulge yourself in public hate speech, you may end up in court to answer for your deeds.
May I ask you, SCP UK, out of curiosity: Did you do your primary and secondary school in the UK or in Serbia?
Serbia is Republic rather than a democracy , this means it is not majority rules as some like to say, it is majority rules with protections for the individual.
This man is in this job to help and serve the citizens of Jagodina and while he is free to have opinions on homosexuality, the difference here is that he has been found to be promoting hatred and intolerance rather than expressing an opinion. At a time when LGBT people are being harassed and attacked he should be trying to prevent that not encourage it.
The same people who are supporting this man now might be outraged if a politician said he was against the public protests of jews or blacks (or JS members) who were diseased. Same would apply if KFOR commander called serbs diseased and that they should not be allowed to gather in public.
Or perhaps he thinks gayness is contagious and he is worried he might catch it.
Mayor Palma is just using his freedom of speech! That is present in every democratic country!
So if Mayor Palma gets sentenced over this, then it means that there is no freedom of speech in Serbia.
(mick, 2 November 2011 20:23)
Ever heard of the basic democratic principle: You have all freedom, but only as long as you don't endanger the freedom of other people? Well, obviously not...
"I did it in the UK, so what I have learned is that the true doctrine of freedom of speech doesn't have exceptions. You cannot just say to someone, you are free to say what you want, but you cant say this or that. As long as someone only says something and doesn't act violently on it then there is no problem, even in that case only the violence is a crime, not the words which come out of their mouth."
And the classic response to that true doctrine of freedom of speech is this:
Are you also free to shout FIRE! FIRE! FIRE! in a movie theater full of people?
After which people panic, rushes towards the exits, and 3 people gets stampeded to death.
According to your doctrine, the person doing the shouting was only using his/her right to free speech without exceptions, and there is no problem, no crime.
If this Palma and his words encourages gay haters to go out and perform "corrective rape" (as is happening in South Africa), or to maim and injure LGB people, is he without guilt?
I did it in the UK, so what I have learned is that the true doctrine of freedom of speech doesn't have exceptions. You cannot just say to someone, you are free to say what you want, but you cant say this or that. As long as someone only says something and doesn't act violently on it then there is no problem, even in that case only the violence is a crime, not the words which come out of their mouth. Palma did nothing but state his opinion, which he as a politician is expected to do, at least hes being honest. If the gays dont like what he says then dont vote for him, its as simple as that, they can vote for the pathetic LDP if they wish. It goes both ways anyway, where in the UK for example, I have had numerous anti-Serb remarks said to me personally and even put through the media, however they are not considered criminals, and I dont go around trying to sue people.
My point is that either practice freedom of speech or dont, just be honest. I am perfectly knowledgable on political philosophy and doctrines of a very wide rage, the freedom of speech is literally the right to say what you want, not this rubbish of saying what you want AS LONG as you dont offend minorities. I am not at all looking for sympathy of anysort, but I as a MINORITY have been offended by individuals and the mass media, but nobody speaks up, thus proving that such nonesense is one sided.
The same story repeating every year. Last year Irinej was "told" by justice to apologize for his hate speech against the LGBT community within a month or face consequences (and we never heard the end of that story, if he did apologize or faced any consequences). This year the exact same story repeating. Hope we will hear the end of this story. Mayor Palma may reuse the precedent set by the "best" part of Serbian society, Irinej. If a man of god does it, who does the First Municipal Court think it is, more powerful than God?!?! God would eat the first municipal court for breakfast.
Your attempts to rubbish my argument are utterly pathetic. Anyway if you are from Denmark, I suggest you keep your nose out of Serbia and worry about whats going on in Denmark. Serbs dont give a damn about what you think, so dont waste your breath.
So basically he was found guilty for using his right to freedom of speech...
It seems that as this government bends over more and more for the EU the more Serbian society is beginning to turn into a society like in Britain, where unless your views correspond with the supposed liberal mainstream view you cannot speak your mind because it turns automatically into discrimination, espeically on the issue with homosexuality where one word against them even uttered and you can be tried under the pathetic anti-discrimination act. This doesn't sound like democracy to me, I mean if you are acting violently towards homosexuals that is a different matter, but a society where one cannot even say what he or she thinks is not desirable at all.
If Serbs are going to live in a democracy then lets live in a democracy, but lets stop this BS where we pretend that democracy has prevailed in Serbia but then start convicting people for speaking their minds.
That's just stupid. You can't say about something or someone to be imoral, because "it's dicrimination". The first step before they will say we can't have an opinion on what's no "right" and "wrong".
Big brother will tell us what to believe and to think.
It is a big change in consciousness for people to change from seeing LG etc. as wrong, to seeing it as an accepted part of society.
It is the necessary effect of a liberal constitution that prejudice must be over-ruled in favour of individual rights.
Other countries have been through this change of consciousness - now Serbia is having to come to terms with it.
Public officials have to obey the law or they will bring the law into disrepute. If they are not able to fulfil their promises to up-hold the law, they should do the honourable thing and resign.
The constitution stands, and is a matter for parliament, not a matter for small-town majors or party leaders to go against the law and the constitution. If they want to change the constitution bring it to parliament - alternatively, up-hold the law or resign.
Big brother will tell us what to believe and to think.
(Mihai, 2 November 2011 16:12)
If I would be a leading politician and declare in public 'all JS members are mentally ill, retarded and should immediately be hospitalized for some medical treatment or a brain surgery' I would probably sued for defamation - or I would be sent to a doctor to check my mental state :)
Your attempts to rubbish my argument are utterly pathetic. Anyway if you are from Denmark, I suggest you keep your nose out of Serbia and worry about whats going on in Denmark. Serbs dont give a damn about what you think, so dont waste your breath.
I did it in the UK, so what I have learned is that the true doctrine of freedom of speech doesn't have exceptions. You cannot just say to someone, you are free to say what you want, but you cant say this or that. As long as someone only says something and doesn't act violently on it then there is no problem, even in that case only the violence is a crime, not the words which come out of their mouth. Palma did nothing but state his opinion, which he as a politician is expected to do, at least hes being honest. If the gays dont like what he says then dont vote for him, its as simple as that, they can vote for the pathetic LDP if they wish. It goes both ways anyway, where in the UK for example, I have had numerous anti-Serb remarks said to me personally and even put through the media, however they are not considered criminals, and I dont go around trying to sue people.
My point is that either practice freedom of speech or dont, just be honest. I am perfectly knowledgable on political philosophy and doctrines of a very wide rage, the freedom of speech is literally the right to say what you want, not this rubbish of saying what you want AS LONG as you dont offend minorities. I am not at all looking for sympathy of anysort, but I as a MINORITY have been offended by individuals and the mass media, but nobody speaks up, thus proving that such nonesense is one sided.
If you didn't do too many classes in school, or simply just didn't get it: Freedom of speech means that you aren't censored before you speak. But in case you for example insult publicly someone, or indulge yourself in public hate speech, you may end up in court to answer for your deeds.
May I ask you, SCP UK, out of curiosity: Did you do your primary and secondary school in the UK or in Serbia?
The same story repeating every year. Last year Irinej was "told" by justice to apologize for his hate speech against the LGBT community within a month or face consequences (and we never heard the end of that story, if he did apologize or faced any consequences). This year the exact same story repeating. Hope we will hear the end of this story. Mayor Palma may reuse the precedent set by the "best" part of Serbian society, Irinej. If a man of god does it, who does the First Municipal Court think it is, more powerful than God?!?! God would eat the first municipal court for breakfast.
"I did it in the UK, so what I have learned is that the true doctrine of freedom of speech doesn't have exceptions. You cannot just say to someone, you are free to say what you want, but you cant say this or that. As long as someone only says something and doesn't act violently on it then there is no problem, even in that case only the violence is a crime, not the words which come out of their mouth."
And the classic response to that true doctrine of freedom of speech is this:
Are you also free to shout FIRE! FIRE! FIRE! in a movie theater full of people?
After which people panic, rushes towards the exits, and 3 people gets stampeded to death.
According to your doctrine, the person doing the shouting was only using his/her right to free speech without exceptions, and there is no problem, no crime.
If this Palma and his words encourages gay haters to go out and perform "corrective rape" (as is happening in South Africa), or to maim and injure LGB people, is he without guilt?
Serbia is Republic rather than a democracy , this means it is not majority rules as some like to say, it is majority rules with protections for the individual.
This man is in this job to help and serve the citizens of Jagodina and while he is free to have opinions on homosexuality, the difference here is that he has been found to be promoting hatred and intolerance rather than expressing an opinion. At a time when LGBT people are being harassed and attacked he should be trying to prevent that not encourage it.
The same people who are supporting this man now might be outraged if a politician said he was against the public protests of jews or blacks (or JS members) who were diseased. Same would apply if KFOR commander called serbs diseased and that they should not be allowed to gather in public.
Or perhaps he thinks gayness is contagious and he is worried he might catch it.
Mayor Palma is just using his freedom of speech! That is present in every democratic country!
So if Mayor Palma gets sentenced over this, then it means that there is no freedom of speech in Serbia.
(mick, 2 November 2011 20:23)
Ever heard of the basic democratic principle: You have all freedom, but only as long as you don't endanger the freedom of other people? Well, obviously not...
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