AI submits petition to deputy prime minister

SCP at the end of the day its all about YOUR perception of Amnesty International.

AI does not accept funding from the US or any other government as you stated so I'm not sure how they could be under the influence of governments.

Its a case of tarring all human rights groups with the same brush through lazyness by those that can't be bothered to investigate how the organisation is funded. AI is not the same as Human Rights Watch.

Amnesty International, I strongly suggest that you take a flying leap into the Adriatic Sea. These CIA paid clowns don’t see the dreadful human rights abuses being carried out by US forces but they see other petty issues.
If AI had any semblance of decency it would close shop and cease to function as a human rights organisation

sj 'Any organisation that receives large sums of government funding is in the pocket of that government and AI receives government funding big time'

As I said AI states specifically that it does not receive funding from governments. So if you could give me a source for your claim that AI receives government funding 'big time'? Do you also believe that Soros funds AI?

sj A google search provides any number of AI condemnations of US policy regarding torture, abuses of human rights and so on.

What is the nature of your criticism of AI concerning the US? In my opinion they have been pretty consistent in condemning human rights abuses.

SJ,

They have done good, although they do not get the attention in the corporate media when they are critical of US policies and conflicts (who's really to blame). AI stood out for me when they bought to the world's attention of the bombing of Serbian journalists and newsreaders, also were one if not the first international org to bring to light, the crimes of the Albanian "leadership" in Kosovo.

In this case I would ask why the Croats get away with blue murder treating whats left of their Roma, whilst Serbia gets critisised and Bosnia gets threatened with sanctions for it's treatment of the small Roma population.

It's not AI, it's what the media and powers that be find useful thats the prob.

STUSI,

You are correct with the effect of media attention.

However I think AI just point out all the 'injustices' but don't do enough to help fix them.

It's a catch 22: Romani don't abide by the laws in the country, but AI just say they cannot be evicted?

I think AI should do more to help make action plans for reforms in integration policies & education for the Roma people, because it is not like the government in Serbia can just start throwing them money for accommodation & give them benefits that other regular Serbian citizens do not get (even though they work, pay taxes etc).

It's easy to point the finger.

Well sj its hard to speculate about the heresay, really. The fact is though that you don't know if its true whether AI had photos or not. You don't know when they got hold of the photos. And you don't know if that was the only evidence they had - even photos on their own (which might be doctored) are not enough to come out in public to accuse a government of torture.

At the same time its ridiculous to expect any organisation to react within days of receiving said photos, if this story is even true might the rational explanation be that they were searching for more evidence to confirm? The proper 'place' for photos without much supporting evidence is in the media.

I have to say sj, you are sounding a little old fashioned. Its not governments that have an unlimited amount of resources, it is corporations. The time when governments did have an almost unlimited supply of cashflow etc has long since passed. We live in a time of austerity. Every budget is now squeezed.

You initially stated that AI were a bunch of CIA paid clowns and that they should cease to function. Now you are sounding a little more analytical. If AI ceased to function do you think that world governments including the US would be happy or sad?

A free rider like yourself should not be siding with the government.

B92 lost my comment earlier this afternoon. Basically sj I had a few points, first AI has over 2.5 million members who pay annual membership. They don't really need you or me to fund them. That provides AI with a good amount of protection to make them independent of governments. I completely reject your guess that AI takes money from government 'big time'.

On the other hand nothing is born in a vacum, every organisation can be influenced. However, my contention is that AI is the best / least worst organisation of its kind on the planet. They deserve some credit for that.

To be honest sj your view sounds pretty generalist and whilst it may apply to other human rights groups, it applies much less to AI. Did you know for example that AI was originally founded to fight for the rights of political prisoners and the first case wasn't in "Commy" Russia or China, but in Portugal? Don't see the CIA in that! Hell, some Americans even believe that AI is an American pressure group.

But that is a problem with the US centric model that tends to think that everything is American, or that the CIA must be behind everything.

Finally Abu Grahib - you say that AI knew about and did nothing about it long before it became public. When did AI know about it? Have you got any information about this? Are you just guessing? I'm genuinely interested, but have to say that if you just make allegations without even a link or a quote I'm likely to think you are making things up.

Danilo, your comments never cease to make me laugh but also to despair at the same time. Your point is completely irrelevant as nobody is saying that anyone who criticises Serbia is a bad guy. Now maybe more could be done to regulate Roma evictions for the better, but AI is extremely inconsistent with who it criticises, and is completely under the influence of western powers.

The fact is that AI may offer the odd criticism to the USA every now and again, but they are just so fickle and are mere token criticisms to lead people to believe that they are utterly impartial, where they simply are not. The United States has to be one of the worlds biggest human rights abusers, but the proportion to which AI criticises them is totally insufficient. AI spends most of its time campaigning against the Chinese government, because it is easy to do so and it diverts attention from all the US' abuses. In Europe it is also clear to anyone who knows a little thing or two about human rights that the worst human rights abuses take place in Kosovo by the Albanian criminals who run the place, yet attention is diverted to Serbian abuses, which are blow out of proportion. At the end of the day, its all about funding, and without the US AI will fall short of funding.

(bganon, 19 October 2011 14:58)

When does this condemnation occur you might ask???? Well after the fact, that’s when. If you are not familiar with how it works then let me tell you.

Any organisation that receives large sums of government funding is in the pocket of that government and AI receives government funding big time. For example AI were well aware of what was going on in Abu Grahib prison in Iraq, but they kept quiet and it was not until after the “dam burst” that they came out condemning these acts of human rights abuse.

AI always takes the easy way out and condemns actions of unfriendly countries to the west, but never stands up to abuses by the US. Yes they have trouble getting some of this stuff in the media but there are other ways of making your point and reaching the general public.

AI has to tread carefully because if it criticizes the hand that feeds them too much then AI will no longer exist.




sj,

anyone who says anything bad (however true) about Serbia is a bad guy, is that right?
(Danilo, 19 October 2011 16:06)

I don’t care if they name Serbia but this issue is insignificant compared to what has happened in Iraq and still occurring Afghanistan. But funny enough it rarely gets mentioned.

It called living up to your set of ideals and principles.

sj,

anyone who says anything bad (however true) about Serbia is a bad guy, is that right?

(bganon, 19 October 2011 23:05)

I am very sad to disappoint you but every human rights group accepts money from government as well as “donations” from corporations – there are no exceptions and that includes AI.

Yes some less than others, but in general all receive funds in this manner. If they waited for you and me to donate they would not be around today.

These organisations come to the forefront in the 1960s when the Soviets funded the peace movement against the war in Vietnam and the US intelligence services funded human rights groups to point out the inhumanity of the evil empire.

It's easy to point the finger.
(trizo, 19 October 2011 15:41)

True, although many Roma also abide by country rules. It's a great thought that one day AI will have the capacity through financing and education to help more and highlight less and I agree Serbia is incapacitated by funding for many social issues.

(bganon, 20 October 2011 18:21)

AI needs as much funds as they can get their hands on. Nothing on this God’s planet works for nothing – it all costs money. You will find that some large donations come from organisations which have very questionably backgrounds and the larger the donation the more influence it has.

Let me clear this delusion once and for all – no one person or organisation has “good amount of protection to make them independent of governments”. They simply do not have the resources to make that happen. Governments have an unlimited amount of resources. It has been known for the intelligence community to have people in those organisations,not there to control but push in the “right direction”.

Human rights organisations started after WW2, but they were small and more of a “cottage industry” than what is now happening. These were born out of a genuine need and desire to protect people from murdering governments.

The Vietnam War was in full blaze in the 1960s – I was in senior high school at the time and I saw what was going on; I did not read about the demonstrations in the US in a text book. Later during my early work life I found out that the Soviets started the peace movement to stop the war in Vietnam so the US began to fund and, in some cases such as the Human Rights Watch Group, not only fund but start these human rights organisation.

These were tit for tat actions by all sides. Its funny how AI commenced in 1960, but if you dig deep enough you will find there was a lot of western intelligence seed money. When you want to find out why are things happening in the world today all the bread crumbs lead back to Washington so blaming the CIA or NSA is the only logical course of action.

Now about Abu Grahib, human rights groups have their own lines of intel that would alert them to maters of concern. The poor and semi literate people who were taking those pictures in that prison were sending them stateside and they were being passed on from one person to another. At some point it was passed on 70 or 80 times.

These photos were sent to AI by people who were disgusted at what they saw – a man held by a leash. AI had some of these pictures for several weeks or more and made no mention. How do you come out and accuse your own government of this type of heinous behaviour. It was local independent newspapers that broke that story not the major ones owned by big business nor the human rights groups

There are plenty of Americans who worked fro the US government but no longer reside in the US and live in retirement in the country of where they operated (mostly Asia) who have lots of contact within the US intelligence community and I know a few of them. They confirm the same. Some of this I pieced together myself and the rest these people confirmed my theory.

I don’t care what you whether you believe me or not.

sj,

anyone who says anything bad (however true) about Serbia is a bad guy, is that right?

Amnesty International, I strongly suggest that you take a flying leap into the Adriatic Sea. These CIA paid clowns don’t see the dreadful human rights abuses being carried out by US forces but they see other petty issues.
If AI had any semblance of decency it would close shop and cease to function as a human rights organisation

(bganon, 19 October 2011 23:05)

I am very sad to disappoint you but every human rights group accepts money from government as well as “donations” from corporations – there are no exceptions and that includes AI.

Yes some less than others, but in general all receive funds in this manner. If they waited for you and me to donate they would not be around today.

These organisations come to the forefront in the 1960s when the Soviets funded the peace movement against the war in Vietnam and the US intelligence services funded human rights groups to point out the inhumanity of the evil empire.

Danilo, your comments never cease to make me laugh but also to despair at the same time. Your point is completely irrelevant as nobody is saying that anyone who criticises Serbia is a bad guy. Now maybe more could be done to regulate Roma evictions for the better, but AI is extremely inconsistent with who it criticises, and is completely under the influence of western powers.

The fact is that AI may offer the odd criticism to the USA every now and again, but they are just so fickle and are mere token criticisms to lead people to believe that they are utterly impartial, where they simply are not. The United States has to be one of the worlds biggest human rights abusers, but the proportion to which AI criticises them is totally insufficient. AI spends most of its time campaigning against the Chinese government, because it is easy to do so and it diverts attention from all the US' abuses. In Europe it is also clear to anyone who knows a little thing or two about human rights that the worst human rights abuses take place in Kosovo by the Albanian criminals who run the place, yet attention is diverted to Serbian abuses, which are blow out of proportion. At the end of the day, its all about funding, and without the US AI will fall short of funding.

sj A google search provides any number of AI condemnations of US policy regarding torture, abuses of human rights and so on.

What is the nature of your criticism of AI concerning the US? In my opinion they have been pretty consistent in condemning human rights abuses.

SJ,

They have done good, although they do not get the attention in the corporate media when they are critical of US policies and conflicts (who's really to blame). AI stood out for me when they bought to the world's attention of the bombing of Serbian journalists and newsreaders, also were one if not the first international org to bring to light, the crimes of the Albanian "leadership" in Kosovo.

In this case I would ask why the Croats get away with blue murder treating whats left of their Roma, whilst Serbia gets critisised and Bosnia gets threatened with sanctions for it's treatment of the small Roma population.

It's not AI, it's what the media and powers that be find useful thats the prob.

STUSI,

You are correct with the effect of media attention.

However I think AI just point out all the 'injustices' but don't do enough to help fix them.

It's a catch 22: Romani don't abide by the laws in the country, but AI just say they cannot be evicted?

I think AI should do more to help make action plans for reforms in integration policies & education for the Roma people, because it is not like the government in Serbia can just start throwing them money for accommodation & give them benefits that other regular Serbian citizens do not get (even though they work, pay taxes etc).

It's easy to point the finger.

SCP at the end of the day its all about YOUR perception of Amnesty International.

AI does not accept funding from the US or any other government as you stated so I'm not sure how they could be under the influence of governments.

Its a case of tarring all human rights groups with the same brush through lazyness by those that can't be bothered to investigate how the organisation is funded. AI is not the same as Human Rights Watch.

(bganon, 19 October 2011 14:58)

When does this condemnation occur you might ask???? Well after the fact, that’s when. If you are not familiar with how it works then let me tell you.

Any organisation that receives large sums of government funding is in the pocket of that government and AI receives government funding big time. For example AI were well aware of what was going on in Abu Grahib prison in Iraq, but they kept quiet and it was not until after the “dam burst” that they came out condemning these acts of human rights abuse.

AI always takes the easy way out and condemns actions of unfriendly countries to the west, but never stands up to abuses by the US. Yes they have trouble getting some of this stuff in the media but there are other ways of making your point and reaching the general public.

AI has to tread carefully because if it criticizes the hand that feeds them too much then AI will no longer exist.




sj,

anyone who says anything bad (however true) about Serbia is a bad guy, is that right?
(Danilo, 19 October 2011 16:06)

I don’t care if they name Serbia but this issue is insignificant compared to what has happened in Iraq and still occurring Afghanistan. But funny enough it rarely gets mentioned.

It called living up to your set of ideals and principles.

sj 'Any organisation that receives large sums of government funding is in the pocket of that government and AI receives government funding big time'

As I said AI states specifically that it does not receive funding from governments. So if you could give me a source for your claim that AI receives government funding 'big time'? Do you also believe that Soros funds AI?

It's easy to point the finger.
(trizo, 19 October 2011 15:41)

True, although many Roma also abide by country rules. It's a great thought that one day AI will have the capacity through financing and education to help more and highlight less and I agree Serbia is incapacitated by funding for many social issues.

B92 lost my comment earlier this afternoon. Basically sj I had a few points, first AI has over 2.5 million members who pay annual membership. They don't really need you or me to fund them. That provides AI with a good amount of protection to make them independent of governments. I completely reject your guess that AI takes money from government 'big time'.

On the other hand nothing is born in a vacum, every organisation can be influenced. However, my contention is that AI is the best / least worst organisation of its kind on the planet. They deserve some credit for that.

To be honest sj your view sounds pretty generalist and whilst it may apply to other human rights groups, it applies much less to AI. Did you know for example that AI was originally founded to fight for the rights of political prisoners and the first case wasn't in "Commy" Russia or China, but in Portugal? Don't see the CIA in that! Hell, some Americans even believe that AI is an American pressure group.

But that is a problem with the US centric model that tends to think that everything is American, or that the CIA must be behind everything.

Finally Abu Grahib - you say that AI knew about and did nothing about it long before it became public. When did AI know about it? Have you got any information about this? Are you just guessing? I'm genuinely interested, but have to say that if you just make allegations without even a link or a quote I'm likely to think you are making things up.

(bganon, 20 October 2011 18:21)

AI needs as much funds as they can get their hands on. Nothing on this God’s planet works for nothing – it all costs money. You will find that some large donations come from organisations which have very questionably backgrounds and the larger the donation the more influence it has.

Let me clear this delusion once and for all – no one person or organisation has “good amount of protection to make them independent of governments”. They simply do not have the resources to make that happen. Governments have an unlimited amount of resources. It has been known for the intelligence community to have people in those organisations,not there to control but push in the “right direction”.

Human rights organisations started after WW2, but they were small and more of a “cottage industry” than what is now happening. These were born out of a genuine need and desire to protect people from murdering governments.

The Vietnam War was in full blaze in the 1960s – I was in senior high school at the time and I saw what was going on; I did not read about the demonstrations in the US in a text book. Later during my early work life I found out that the Soviets started the peace movement to stop the war in Vietnam so the US began to fund and, in some cases such as the Human Rights Watch Group, not only fund but start these human rights organisation.

These were tit for tat actions by all sides. Its funny how AI commenced in 1960, but if you dig deep enough you will find there was a lot of western intelligence seed money. When you want to find out why are things happening in the world today all the bread crumbs lead back to Washington so blaming the CIA or NSA is the only logical course of action.

Now about Abu Grahib, human rights groups have their own lines of intel that would alert them to maters of concern. The poor and semi literate people who were taking those pictures in that prison were sending them stateside and they were being passed on from one person to another. At some point it was passed on 70 or 80 times.

These photos were sent to AI by people who were disgusted at what they saw – a man held by a leash. AI had some of these pictures for several weeks or more and made no mention. How do you come out and accuse your own government of this type of heinous behaviour. It was local independent newspapers that broke that story not the major ones owned by big business nor the human rights groups

There are plenty of Americans who worked fro the US government but no longer reside in the US and live in retirement in the country of where they operated (mostly Asia) who have lots of contact within the US intelligence community and I know a few of them. They confirm the same. Some of this I pieced together myself and the rest these people confirmed my theory.

I don’t care what you whether you believe me or not.

Well sj its hard to speculate about the heresay, really. The fact is though that you don't know if its true whether AI had photos or not. You don't know when they got hold of the photos. And you don't know if that was the only evidence they had - even photos on their own (which might be doctored) are not enough to come out in public to accuse a government of torture.

At the same time its ridiculous to expect any organisation to react within days of receiving said photos, if this story is even true might the rational explanation be that they were searching for more evidence to confirm? The proper 'place' for photos without much supporting evidence is in the media.

I have to say sj, you are sounding a little old fashioned. Its not governments that have an unlimited amount of resources, it is corporations. The time when governments did have an almost unlimited supply of cashflow etc has long since passed. We live in a time of austerity. Every budget is now squeezed.

You initially stated that AI were a bunch of CIA paid clowns and that they should cease to function. Now you are sounding a little more analytical. If AI ceased to function do you think that world governments including the US would be happy or sad?

A free rider like yourself should not be siding with the government.