Merkel wants Albanian judges in south serbia where there are a mojority is Serbian. So what about serbian judges in Pristina ?
Wake up serbia germany hates you :
Notice to everyone in the west having a midlife crisis:
If your career is a failure, if you call yourself a "journalist" but no one else does, then participate in some kind of "Serbia was a victim in the break-up of yugoslavia" and you become a celebrity in some eyes in Serbia.
One day you might even become more famous that Nick Slaughter!
Mircea, it's not really up to me or you but the will of the collective people and we will all choose the juicer carrots, which will come from Asia.
bganon, like I said, that documentary was produced and directed by Boris and essentially reflects his opinion as someone who grew up in Yugoslavia. I did not and it doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion.
I watched it at the Belgrade premier in May this year and for a 23 year old, he is doing quite well. I prefer "Kosovo: Can you imagine?" but that is a few years old now.
What will Serbia do when it will be completely surrounded by EU and NATO member states?
Serbia is not in Asia. It makes no sense to write about China.
(Mircea EU citizen, 12 October 2011 12:57)
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We will do the same thing as when we were surrounded by the NAZIs.
Serbia is not in the Americas either so if there is a choice between Asia and America, I choose Asia. Look at the Asian economies. There is no talk of an economic crisis there. The emerging world is where prosperity lives especially now that they don't rely so much on the US economy. They are self sufficient these days.
Romania and Serbia will do well when we realign Eastwards.
Romania- EU and NATO member state
Hungary- EU and NATO member state
Bulgaria- EU and NATO member state
Croatia- will join the EU on 1 July 2013 and is a NATO member state
Montenegro- EU and NATO candidate state
Macedonia- EU and NATO candidate state
Bosnia- a potential EU candidate state and also plans to join NATO
I am proud to be a citizen of the EU.
Long live the European Union!!!!
(Mircea EU citizen, 12 October 2011 10:53)
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Yes Mircea, we've seen it all before. People like you were saying Long live the Soviet Union not too long ago. The cycle repeats but not in the same way. This is an economic war now, not so much military. Germany has a choice, save itself and lose "Europe" or attempt to save "Europe" and lose both.
History repeats:
Romania- Axis and NAZI member
Hungary- Axis and NAZI member
Bulgaria- Axis and NAZI member
Croatia- willingly joined the Axis and was a NAZI member
Montenegro- Occupied by the NAZIs - being forced to join NATO
Macedonia- Occupied by the NAZIs - being forced to join NATO
Bosnia- Occupied by the NAZIs - being forced to join NATO
I do feel sorry for the Romanians as they tend to go the wrong way. First the NAZIs, then Warsaw and now NATO. However, the next cycle with China leading, will be a very long and prosperous one. Romania will make the right choice this time instead of being forced into debt and false dreams.
Joining the Euro today means everyone putting in their fair share of bailout funds for those old EU members Greece (which will default in 3 weeks), Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland.
Greed is part of human nature my friend and people follow the prosperous route. Fortunately, the EU's carrots are pretty rotten if you haven't already noticed. The new batch from the East look and smell much better.
Olli, Zoran the other irony of Weight of Chains is that on the one hand you have praise for former Jugoslavija as a success story and then some of the very same people who make / support the film were against Jugoslavija, saying it kept Serbia down.
They can't have it both ways. If the West destroyed Jugoslavija, it was made much easier by those Serbs, Croats, etc that were against it. Its a bit late now to be singing the praises of Jugoslavija, now they have got what they wanted. Its a bit late to be lamenting the situation in Kosovo, when the downfall of Jugoslaija ensured that Kos Albanians would want out.
What one won't see of course is a movie that blames both the west and the domestic politicians for destroying Jugoslavija. Instead we get an official version and a revisionist version of events in response.
Call me a stick in the mud but I prefer non Hollywood style movies without 'celebrities' involved where the subject material paints a real picture and not a good / evil divide.
But to return to the subject, will the EU give Tadic his election sweetener??
I really hope I will make it to Belgrade some day before Xmas or New Year. Let's then have some beers (or hot red wine) and rakija and talk about the history. No matter how complex the Yugoslav history is, it may be an easier subject than present times or future of the Balkans...
(Olli, 12 October 2011 01:03)
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Olli, I only pointed to that documentary to highlight that John Bosnitch has become a bit of a celebrity here in Belgrade. He is well known amongst the Serbs. If we catch up, I can bring him along.
As for the content of the documentary, well it was made by a 23 year old Serbian producer by the name of Boris Malagurski. I preferred his first documentary "Kosovo: Can you imagine?" but for his age, the guy has huge potential. If he is in Belgrade at the time I'll invite him also. With a bit of rakija, I'm sure we'll have a lot to discuss.
Stop dreaming!! Romania is proud to be a member state of the EU and NATO. Soon Romania will join the Schengen Area and later my country will adopt the Euro.
Just look at the map. Serbia is surrounded by EU and NATO member states or candidate states.
Romania- EU and NATO member state
Hungary- EU and NATO member state
Bulgaria- EU and NATO member state
Croatia- will join the EU on 1 July 2013 and is a NATO member state
Montenegro- EU and NATO candidate state
Macedonia- EU and NATO candidate state
Bosnia- a potential EU candidate state and also plans to join NATO
Its rather odd what tends to happen however, the proletariat suddenly become middle class and tend to enjoy their new wealth. They lose ALL ideology and become content with the capitalist system. In case you hadn't noticed, there are over 300 mill people in the US, not all of them are protesting
(Andrew, 11 October 2011 22:57)
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My friend, you are confusing "wealth" with debt. The average US worker has over $100,000 of debt. Every baby born in the US inherits over $40,000 of debt. That's all good and well when the economy is strong, people have jobs and can pay their dues but that isn't the case so people are on the streets.
The true revolution has started my friend, unlike the false "velvet" ones we've seen. Just sit and watch.
You're trying to help?? By typing things from your computer in the corrupted west?
This is exactly the point. You're not trying to help. You don't care about people (actual, real people) in Serbia. You just want Serbia (that far-away place you occasionally visit) to be a certain way for YOU.
I saw the trailer for Weight of Chains. I must say that whoever believes the BS heard on that trailer ("Yugoslavia was en economical success story"), and eventually on the film itself, does not know a thing of Yugoslavia, its condition and its failed interior politics.
Let me tell you just one thing of this success story: the money Yugoslavia received as loans was waisted the very same way as Greece waisted its loans. People were paid salaries way above what their work actually produced, state build a massive and unnecessary state and municipal bureaucracy to employ people, millions and millions were spent in building industry that never functioned. The famous socialist autogestion, workers' self-management system (radničko samoupravljanje) failed, very much for the reason that it actually wasn't led by workers but from higher positions (by non-expert and simple party up-starts, or by hard liners who never wanted to admit they were wrong in any case). Corruption was ever spreading and considered as the modus operandi.
I don't say everything was bad in Yugoslavia. No, that wasn't the case. But the people running the League of Communists of Yugoslavia (Savez komunista Jugoslavije) failed to produce building blocks needed in the making of a successful, democratic, rightful, progressive and innovative country for generally satisfied citizenry. If you want to disagree with this claim, please, do some research and interviews first. Don't get on barricades only equipped with your opinion.
The much repeated claim that it mainly was lazy Yugoslav workers that contributed to the fall of economics is wrong. The economy failed because real and correct criticism toward modus operandi was banned. It was the small local and big federal party apparatchiks and bosses who dictated what's true and right and correct, in spite of the contradicting reality witnessed by many brighter minds.
Believing the lie that outsiders broke Yugoslavia gets you nowhere. Except to sing mir, mir, mir, niko nije kriv. (By the way, have you listened to a similarly named song - niko nije kriv - by the band Dubioza kolektiv? I highly recommend.)
I really hope I will make it to Belgrade some day before Xmas or New Year. Let's then have some beers (or hot red wine) and rakija and talk about the history. No matter how complex the Yugoslav history is, it may be an easier subject than present times or future of the Balkans...
but which options has serbia? i can tell you the options. serbia becomes an eu candidate and joins in some years (10 years or more) the eu or serbia will be isolated look at the map all neighbors of serbia ar either nato and eu members or want to join these 2 organizations. serbia can take and accept the eu carot or get nothing as kosovo will remain independent whatever serbia accepts it or not.
(stasi, 11 October 2011 19:31)
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Such a black and white mind you have. We have the option of staying neutral. Serbia's neighbours do not necessarily "want" to be NATO members more than they are *made* NATO members. The same applies to EU membership, it is sold to European citizens as bringing prosperity but when that doesn't quite work out they start asking questions. Greece is going to default in two or three weeks and somehow people think the EU/Euro is good for them?
Anyway, empires collapse relatively quickly and when alternatives are presented, countries being *made* members of organisations or unions tend to choose what's best for them. China and partners will be knocking very soon. We only need another Orthodox country like Romania, who strongly supports Serbia to choose prosperous China over bankrupt US and the rest will fall in line. This will happen my friend.
oh wow Zoran...a true revolutionary. Please let me know when the uprising is starting, as there have been so many since Karl Marx preicted the end of Capitalism. Its rather odd what tends to happen however, the proletariat suddenly become middle class and tend to enjoy their new wealth. They lose ALL ideology and become content with the capitalist system. In case you hadn't noticed, there are over 300 mill people in the US, not all of them are protesting
The point here is that you wish to deprive them of those opportunities, opportunities available to you.
(Danilo, 11 October 2011 18:43)
Wrong. I want to help build a society where there would be no reason to leave your county to seek a good standard of living. You on the other hand, could not give one other reason for the benefit of a organization we are force fed through the media everyday about how great it will be, other than..YOU GET TO LEAVE.
Great, not only do they strip us of territory..we get the chance to be stripped of people too.
I'm glad you see Serbia as a "prison". You can only thank DS with corrupt policies and socialist style bureaucracy that has made it impossible for investors to contribute unless you're a Western multi national corporation.
I'm glad that for a club that Serbian gov't spends billions of dollars trying to convince everyone is great...you cannot give me one good reason for membership other than the smart get to leave..it cements my thinking even more.
I guess those people on Occupy Wallstreet are not Americans either because they don't support unjust policies of their corrupt govt.
(Ari Gold, 11 October 2011 17:08)
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Absolutely, we are all on the same side. Serbians, the Wall Street protesters and the true revolutionaries around the world, which is getting stronger and stronger. The old world order is coming to a close while the new world is just beginning. The new cycle is going to be a long and prosperous one (for Serbia also) while the greedy, destructive and egotistical forces that ethnic Albanians so willing support will be destroyed and they will suffer as a result.
Adn soon after the candidate status will be given the video of the Serbian chief nagotiator Stfanovic smoking cigarettes while MUP is burning Jarinje will be shown to the pubblic. Of course this is blantly against any EU values but ahhh shame too late Serbia alredy got the candidate status. And again Serbs will complain about EU and Albanians will love them. Ironic Balkans and the putan EU.
(ben, 11 October 2011 14:30)
Why are you interested in Jarinje post so much? Why do you feel so badly without that post being established?
So you're one and only argument to join the EU is to brain drain Serbia and have its people leave. Are you out of your mind?
(Ari Gold, 11 October 2011 17:06)
Out of curiosity Ari Gold, why don't you take your brain back to Serbia? Why do you not choose to take your wisdom to your homeland for 300E a month, but choose to kep it in the US? If you're that bothered that Serbia will be starved of geniuses, make a start yourslef and go back. Like I sadi, its easy to call for militancy when you live THAT far away from the country.
but which options has serbia? i can tell you the options. serbia becomes an eu candidate and joins in some years (10 years or more) the eu or serbia will be isolated look at the map all neighbors of serbia ar either nato and eu members or want to join these 2 organizations. serbia can take and accept the eu carot or get nothing as kosovo will remain independent whatever serbia accepts it or not.
"So you're one and only argument to join the EU is to brain drain Serbia and have its people leave"
And you want to imprison them? Why? There needs to be more back and forth. People now have to put a lot of effort and investment into leaving. When they do, like your parents did, there's more reason stay put once you're out. If people could take a job for a year or two outside without it being a hassle, people would feel freer to move back and forth.
All that's beside the point. People will do what they want to do.
The point here is that you wish to deprive them of those opportunities, opportunities available to you.
I live in Serbia and I don't want Serbia to join the EU. I've seen the brain drain coming from Eastern European countries, where qualified people who couldn't get a job in their home countries come to the UK and clean toilets for a living. Yes, cash payments, less than minimum wage and they live a hard life but their pride keeps them there. Going back as a failure is not an option. Eventually they can afford to rent an Audi for a week and visit home telling everyone how great everything is.
As for qualified people, I have seen Russian, Ukrainian, Belo Russian and Serbian citizens working in the EU due to their skills and nothing to do with the EU. In these cases, where there's a will there's a way, if you put in the effort.
Now giving up KiM for some rotten EU carrots? Hey, ask most Serbians in Serbia and they'll say the same thing as me. We have more pride than most Europeans. Even with €300 a month life isn't too bad here. It just means the family unit stays together for longer and that's not a bad thing.
I know many many Westerners who absolutely love Serbia and from personal experience, it is a fabulous place without the EU. We have free trade and visa free travel. Really, what more do we need?
I'm was going to organise a drinks night for anyone in and around Belgrade this week (even B92 people if interested). John Bosnitch has become a bit of a celebrity here recently due to the Weight of Chains documentary - Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qi50Mun4RA I get him to come along also.
I am a Serb who has returned from the West, so is John. There are many of us and including many non-Serbs who have decided to live here. Send me an email if interested in catching up. zorank@email.com
Ari Gold, I know you don't live in the EU. I also know you live in the US, a country you accuse everyday of criminality, thieving etc...yet you still choose to live there, enjoy its freedoms and its capacity to provide you with a pretty decent material life. If you were a man of honor, you'd leave and move elsewhere
(adriatik, 11 October 2011 15:27)
I have never accuse American people of criminality. I accuse the imperialistic American gov't and the 1% in America that makes life difficult for people all over the world, and are now making it difficult for their compatriots.
I guess those people on Occupy Wallstreet are not Americans either because they don't support unjust policies of their corrupt govt.
1 example: Young people all over europe have the opportunity to seek employment anywhere in Europe. Serbs are stuck in Serbia competing for 300e/month jobs.
You "Serbs" in the EU/US/Australia are wishing on the young generation of Serbs (knowingly or not), that they have few opportunities for working and education - and for what?
You also see this in returnees - Serbs who have failed in countries they've tried to emigrate to but enjoy preserving for themselves only the privilege of a foreign passport while living in Serbia
(Danilo, 11 October 2011 15:37)
So you're one and only argument to join the EU is to brain drain Serbia and have its people leave. Are you out of your mind?
Adriatik-you make a redundant point. It goes without saying Serbs want a better life for their compatriots (average Albanians in Kosovo too), all they are saying is that may well be outside of the EU. Many currently living in the peripheral EU would agree.
There's nothing worse than unquestioning ignorance of such unqualified EU supporters, especially when they think that they consider themselves to be better informed (badly, as is usual), and use it to denigrate those who can see the EU for what it is, many things on paper, many other things in real life. Sure, the EU is on balance 'a good thing', but like the Euro, is qualified in many ways.
As with regard to the news item, it goes to show exactly how one single EU member state can at will usurp the technical and impartial critera for joining the EU so that it fits with their foreign policy objectives, regardless of the opinion of the other Member States. That is the real EU, where the big boys can still kick around the others, and not some Euro-Brady Bunch ideal. It isi hilarious that adriatik declares such love for the EU myth, yet this news item itself undermines that myth! Or doesn't it count because the serbs don't count? The only thing Frau Merkerl didn't put as a condition is that the Serbs in Kosovo should ethnically cleanse themselves from their own land to solve the problem. Everyone in europe is equal, apart from the Serbs. Some EU.
Oh great, adriatik, the Albanians in Kosovo can then move their drugs and whores around Europe without border checks. Because you know that if Serbia becomes an EU member, the K_Albanians will all claim to be Serbsian citizens.
I hope the Serbian government is not blind to see the never ending blackmail that the major EU countries are hatching.
If, for arguement's sake, suppose Tadic agrees to all of their conditions, all that Serbia will get will be a date to START negotiations that would last forever at the EU's pleasure without any guarantee of success or conclusion. Serbia is being taken for a ride and I hope she realizes it -- she is asked to give up her rights in return for vague promises that I think will never be honored. I think the only people who are more despicable than the likes of London and Berlin are those Yankees across the ocean.
Oh you mean the Serb free travel. That's great, Albanians of Albania enjoy that one too. You know what they cannot enjoy though, the right to work in the EU FREE OF ANY VISA REQUIREMENT. The Union is experiencing a crisis now, sure, but do you know what, the average person in the EU RIGHT NOW, is still more likely to have a higher income, than say the average person in China, Brazil, Russia. Considering that the EU is also one of the biggest markets in the world, its demise will not be as abrupt as posters here like to project. Considering that China needs the EU to sell its products to, anything happening here, will reverberate back to them. The biggest advantage to the ordinary person though is this, you are not confined to your own borders for work. That means, you are open to look for jobs ANYWHERE in Europe hassle free. Something you do not get in Russia, China, Brazil. Allow me to ask this though, why don't the Serb EU residents who possess EU passports, rip them up, denounce their EU citizenships and move back to Serbia to appreciate life in a Serbia outside the EU. Let them put their money where their mouth is. They advocate a non-EU Serbia, but choose not to live in Serbia. Its easy to have principles when you don't have to face the consequences.
Ari Gold, I know you don't live in the EU. I also know you live in the US, a country you accuse everyday of criminality, thieving etc...yet you still choose to live there, enjoy its freedoms and its capacity to provide you with a pretty decent material life. If you were a man of honor, you'd leave and move elsewhere
1 example: Young people all over europe have the opportunity to seek employment anywhere in Europe. Serbs are stuck in Serbia competing for 300e/month jobs.
You "Serbs" in the EU/US/Australia are wishing on the young generation of Serbs (knowingly or not), that they have few opportunities for working and education - and for what?
You also see this in returnees - Serbs who have failed in countries they've tried to emigrate to but enjoy preserving for themselves only the privilege of a foreign passport while living in Serbia
Macedonia is candiate country since 2005 I think. And all they made out of it is a disney land in centre of their capital.
Albania has her candidate status on desk since 2009 but they are just too busy in offending each other govt - oposition.
What I hate is the fact that EU is not honest.
They shoudl clearly tale Serbia: your behaviour with Kosova is unaceptable for EU standards. Thus no progress towards EU can be made if you do not modernize and change your agressive attitude.
But EU is the old... so they will give candiadate status to Serbia. This will help Tadic in the next years elections. Adn soon after the candidate status will be given the video of the Serbian chief nagotiator Stfanovic smoking cigarettes while MUP is burning Jarinje will be shown to the pubblic. Of course this is blantly against any EU values but ahhh shame too late Serbia alredy got the candidate status. And again Serbs will complain about EU and Albanians will love them. Ironic Balkans and the putan EU.
adriatic, maybe diaspora commentators are aware that the EU and the US, are not great of a place anymore. I agree with a lot of the posters here that the EU is a sinking ship. Just look at how the EU is forcing the smaller EU economies to pick up the load in rescuing failing members, when they can ill afford to do that because their own economies are in crisis. The huge benefits which you speak of, education, retirement, healthcare, will certainly be cut, and probably in some cases gone. There will simply be no money. People like you, who are EU enthusiasts, still believe that the EU will offer great economic benefits by simply being a member. That is just not true. The smaller fish can expect to share the load of the larger ones. That is why the EU needs them - not to mention markets to sell their junk, plus value added taxes - PDV, of course. Serbs already have freedom of movement in the EU, so that carrot is not a bargaining chip anymore. As for the US, where does one begin? Maybe join those happy people that are protesting Wall street?
I do not live in the EU no. But what are these benefits. Why in the hell is it given knowledge that the EU will benefit Serbia? You can't use Slovakia and Czech Republic as reasons why the EU will help Serbia. The union was much different then than it is now. The best way you can compare what Serbia would experience in the EU is Bulgaria and Romania. I have not seen anything positive for either countries since membership. In Romania a guy threw him self off a building at how dire his situation was. The EU promises milk and honey not just too Serbia but to anyone that is looking to leave the union.
The fact is if the majority of people had a democratic right in the EU they would vote to leave the EU. If this is the case, why should Serbia join it? Why should Serbia join a union that is in such a huge debt crisis that shows no signs of letting up, in fact shows that it could get worse.
And notice how I have not brought up the EU's continued hypocrisy when I point out the EU's internal flaws. That's right, even without the Serbophobic policies..it is suicide to join the EU.
As much as I'm angry about Germany's view on Northern Kosovo & their interest in the political & legal structure of Serbia's province, I still agree that the EU is analogous with the Titanic.
Germany setting more conditions for membership is like slapping Serbia's pride in the face.
We cannot turn our back on the Serbians in KiM & make decisions that would see them ruled by Albanian officials under Albanian constitutions.
We should never join a club that requires us to give up our land and give in to their obnoxious demands.
I always find it odd how the ones on these forums who do not want Serbia to join the EU, are those who won't suffer the consequences of such an occurrence. Basically, it is the Serb diaspora, who much to my surprise, predominately reside in the EU or US, who are against membership. Why is that one wonders? If I had to hazard a guess it'd be this: they already have EU passports and have the freedom to seek work ANYWHERE in the Union. They enjoy the high standard of living they can earn in the West. It's weird and frankly tragic that you would not want your own people to enjoy the same benefits. The advantages to the ordinary Serb will be greater in the EU than out of it. Freedom to study in any EU university on the same fees as any other EU student. Freedom to work and settle in ANY EU country with all personal rights legally protected. The freedom to seek a pension in ANY EU (providing you contribute of course) as any other person of that country. The Serbs who live in the EU and West, enjoy these chances. They do not want the Serbs in Serbia to be privy to the same opportunities. Sad
It's amazing how people who identify as big serbs want serbs to suffer for nothing really - so they can pat themselves on their backs over they way they've chosen to think of their identity.
I know I have been very critical of you people in the past. But all will be forgotten if you don't publish in favor of Serbian membership. I really do not want my country to join the sinking Titanic.
Not that publishing a stupid report will result in Serbia ever joining the EU anyway. However, a negative report will amount to the culmination of Tadic's reign over Serbia which is a really good thing.
So Merkel please stick to your principles. Serbia has not abolished "parallel" institutions in Kosovo so do not "reward" her with candidacy to your illustrious club. Please don't go back on your word, stay true to typical and traditional German values of being confrontational to Serbia. I would really appreciate it.
The Belgrade-Pristina talks rely on two parties and if the Kosovo-Albanian side does things, or doesn't wish to talk, Serbia is punished by the EU. In that scenario it seems that Pristina can almost blackmail Serbia.
I know I have been very critical of you people in the past. But all will be forgotten if you don't publish in favor of Serbian membership. I really do not want my country to join the sinking Titanic.
Not that publishing a stupid report will result in Serbia ever joining the EU anyway. However, a negative report will amount to the culmination of Tadic's reign over Serbia which is a really good thing.
So Merkel please stick to your principles. Serbia has not abolished "parallel" institutions in Kosovo so do not "reward" her with candidacy to your illustrious club. Please don't go back on your word, stay true to typical and traditional German values of being confrontational to Serbia. I would really appreciate it.
I always find it odd how the ones on these forums who do not want Serbia to join the EU, are those who won't suffer the consequences of such an occurrence. Basically, it is the Serb diaspora, who much to my surprise, predominately reside in the EU or US, who are against membership. Why is that one wonders? If I had to hazard a guess it'd be this: they already have EU passports and have the freedom to seek work ANYWHERE in the Union. They enjoy the high standard of living they can earn in the West. It's weird and frankly tragic that you would not want your own people to enjoy the same benefits. The advantages to the ordinary Serb will be greater in the EU than out of it. Freedom to study in any EU university on the same fees as any other EU student. Freedom to work and settle in ANY EU country with all personal rights legally protected. The freedom to seek a pension in ANY EU (providing you contribute of course) as any other person of that country. The Serbs who live in the EU and West, enjoy these chances. They do not want the Serbs in Serbia to be privy to the same opportunities. Sad
adriatic, maybe diaspora commentators are aware that the EU and the US, are not great of a place anymore. I agree with a lot of the posters here that the EU is a sinking ship. Just look at how the EU is forcing the smaller EU economies to pick up the load in rescuing failing members, when they can ill afford to do that because their own economies are in crisis. The huge benefits which you speak of, education, retirement, healthcare, will certainly be cut, and probably in some cases gone. There will simply be no money. People like you, who are EU enthusiasts, still believe that the EU will offer great economic benefits by simply being a member. That is just not true. The smaller fish can expect to share the load of the larger ones. That is why the EU needs them - not to mention markets to sell their junk, plus value added taxes - PDV, of course. Serbs already have freedom of movement in the EU, so that carrot is not a bargaining chip anymore. As for the US, where does one begin? Maybe join those happy people that are protesting Wall street?
As much as I'm angry about Germany's view on Northern Kosovo & their interest in the political & legal structure of Serbia's province, I still agree that the EU is analogous with the Titanic.
Germany setting more conditions for membership is like slapping Serbia's pride in the face.
We cannot turn our back on the Serbians in KiM & make decisions that would see them ruled by Albanian officials under Albanian constitutions.
We should never join a club that requires us to give up our land and give in to their obnoxious demands.
Oh you mean the Serb free travel. That's great, Albanians of Albania enjoy that one too. You know what they cannot enjoy though, the right to work in the EU FREE OF ANY VISA REQUIREMENT. The Union is experiencing a crisis now, sure, but do you know what, the average person in the EU RIGHT NOW, is still more likely to have a higher income, than say the average person in China, Brazil, Russia. Considering that the EU is also one of the biggest markets in the world, its demise will not be as abrupt as posters here like to project. Considering that China needs the EU to sell its products to, anything happening here, will reverberate back to them. The biggest advantage to the ordinary person though is this, you are not confined to your own borders for work. That means, you are open to look for jobs ANYWHERE in Europe hassle free. Something you do not get in Russia, China, Brazil. Allow me to ask this though, why don't the Serb EU residents who possess EU passports, rip them up, denounce their EU citizenships and move back to Serbia to appreciate life in a Serbia outside the EU. Let them put their money where their mouth is. They advocate a non-EU Serbia, but choose not to live in Serbia. Its easy to have principles when you don't have to face the consequences.
Ari Gold, I know you don't live in the EU. I also know you live in the US, a country you accuse everyday of criminality, thieving etc...yet you still choose to live there, enjoy its freedoms and its capacity to provide you with a pretty decent material life. If you were a man of honor, you'd leave and move elsewhere
The Belgrade-Pristina talks rely on two parties and if the Kosovo-Albanian side does things, or doesn't wish to talk, Serbia is punished by the EU. In that scenario it seems that Pristina can almost blackmail Serbia.
It's amazing how people who identify as big serbs want serbs to suffer for nothing really - so they can pat themselves on their backs over they way they've chosen to think of their identity.
I do not live in the EU no. But what are these benefits. Why in the hell is it given knowledge that the EU will benefit Serbia? You can't use Slovakia and Czech Republic as reasons why the EU will help Serbia. The union was much different then than it is now. The best way you can compare what Serbia would experience in the EU is Bulgaria and Romania. I have not seen anything positive for either countries since membership. In Romania a guy threw him self off a building at how dire his situation was. The EU promises milk and honey not just too Serbia but to anyone that is looking to leave the union.
The fact is if the majority of people had a democratic right in the EU they would vote to leave the EU. If this is the case, why should Serbia join it? Why should Serbia join a union that is in such a huge debt crisis that shows no signs of letting up, in fact shows that it could get worse.
And notice how I have not brought up the EU's continued hypocrisy when I point out the EU's internal flaws. That's right, even without the Serbophobic policies..it is suicide to join the EU.
There's nothing worse than unquestioning ignorance of such unqualified EU supporters, especially when they think that they consider themselves to be better informed (badly, as is usual), and use it to denigrate those who can see the EU for what it is, many things on paper, many other things in real life. Sure, the EU is on balance 'a good thing', but like the Euro, is qualified in many ways.
As with regard to the news item, it goes to show exactly how one single EU member state can at will usurp the technical and impartial critera for joining the EU so that it fits with their foreign policy objectives, regardless of the opinion of the other Member States. That is the real EU, where the big boys can still kick around the others, and not some Euro-Brady Bunch ideal. It isi hilarious that adriatik declares such love for the EU myth, yet this news item itself undermines that myth! Or doesn't it count because the serbs don't count? The only thing Frau Merkerl didn't put as a condition is that the Serbs in Kosovo should ethnically cleanse themselves from their own land to solve the problem. Everyone in europe is equal, apart from the Serbs. Some EU.
Oh great, adriatik, the Albanians in Kosovo can then move their drugs and whores around Europe without border checks. Because you know that if Serbia becomes an EU member, the K_Albanians will all claim to be Serbsian citizens.
1 example: Young people all over europe have the opportunity to seek employment anywhere in Europe. Serbs are stuck in Serbia competing for 300e/month jobs.
You "Serbs" in the EU/US/Australia are wishing on the young generation of Serbs (knowingly or not), that they have few opportunities for working and education - and for what?
You also see this in returnees - Serbs who have failed in countries they've tried to emigrate to but enjoy preserving for themselves only the privilege of a foreign passport while living in Serbia
1 example: Young people all over europe have the opportunity to seek employment anywhere in Europe. Serbs are stuck in Serbia competing for 300e/month jobs.
You "Serbs" in the EU/US/Australia are wishing on the young generation of Serbs (knowingly or not), that they have few opportunities for working and education - and for what?
You also see this in returnees - Serbs who have failed in countries they've tried to emigrate to but enjoy preserving for themselves only the privilege of a foreign passport while living in Serbia
(Danilo, 11 October 2011 15:37)
So you're one and only argument to join the EU is to brain drain Serbia and have its people leave. Are you out of your mind?
I live in Serbia and I don't want Serbia to join the EU. I've seen the brain drain coming from Eastern European countries, where qualified people who couldn't get a job in their home countries come to the UK and clean toilets for a living. Yes, cash payments, less than minimum wage and they live a hard life but their pride keeps them there. Going back as a failure is not an option. Eventually they can afford to rent an Audi for a week and visit home telling everyone how great everything is.
As for qualified people, I have seen Russian, Ukrainian, Belo Russian and Serbian citizens working in the EU due to their skills and nothing to do with the EU. In these cases, where there's a will there's a way, if you put in the effort.
Now giving up KiM for some rotten EU carrots? Hey, ask most Serbians in Serbia and they'll say the same thing as me. We have more pride than most Europeans. Even with €300 a month life isn't too bad here. It just means the family unit stays together for longer and that's not a bad thing.
I know many many Westerners who absolutely love Serbia and from personal experience, it is a fabulous place without the EU. We have free trade and visa free travel. Really, what more do we need?
I'm was going to organise a drinks night for anyone in and around Belgrade this week (even B92 people if interested). John Bosnitch has become a bit of a celebrity here recently due to the Weight of Chains documentary - Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qi50Mun4RA I get him to come along also.
I am a Serb who has returned from the West, so is John. There are many of us and including many non-Serbs who have decided to live here. Send me an email if interested in catching up. zorank@email.com
I hope the Serbian government is not blind to see the never ending blackmail that the major EU countries are hatching.
If, for arguement's sake, suppose Tadic agrees to all of their conditions, all that Serbia will get will be a date to START negotiations that would last forever at the EU's pleasure without any guarantee of success or conclusion. Serbia is being taken for a ride and I hope she realizes it -- she is asked to give up her rights in return for vague promises that I think will never be honored. I think the only people who are more despicable than the likes of London and Berlin are those Yankees across the ocean.
Macedonia is candiate country since 2005 I think. And all they made out of it is a disney land in centre of their capital.
Albania has her candidate status on desk since 2009 but they are just too busy in offending each other govt - oposition.
What I hate is the fact that EU is not honest.
They shoudl clearly tale Serbia: your behaviour with Kosova is unaceptable for EU standards. Thus no progress towards EU can be made if you do not modernize and change your agressive attitude.
But EU is the old... so they will give candiadate status to Serbia. This will help Tadic in the next years elections. Adn soon after the candidate status will be given the video of the Serbian chief nagotiator Stfanovic smoking cigarettes while MUP is burning Jarinje will be shown to the pubblic. Of course this is blantly against any EU values but ahhh shame too late Serbia alredy got the candidate status. And again Serbs will complain about EU and Albanians will love them. Ironic Balkans and the putan EU.
Olli, Zoran the other irony of Weight of Chains is that on the one hand you have praise for former Jugoslavija as a success story and then some of the very same people who make / support the film were against Jugoslavija, saying it kept Serbia down.
They can't have it both ways. If the West destroyed Jugoslavija, it was made much easier by those Serbs, Croats, etc that were against it. Its a bit late now to be singing the praises of Jugoslavija, now they have got what they wanted. Its a bit late to be lamenting the situation in Kosovo, when the downfall of Jugoslaija ensured that Kos Albanians would want out.
What one won't see of course is a movie that blames both the west and the domestic politicians for destroying Jugoslavija. Instead we get an official version and a revisionist version of events in response.
Call me a stick in the mud but I prefer non Hollywood style movies without 'celebrities' involved where the subject material paints a real picture and not a good / evil divide.
But to return to the subject, will the EU give Tadic his election sweetener??
Adriatik-you make a redundant point. It goes without saying Serbs want a better life for their compatriots (average Albanians in Kosovo too), all they are saying is that may well be outside of the EU. Many currently living in the peripheral EU would agree.
Ari Gold, I know you don't live in the EU. I also know you live in the US, a country you accuse everyday of criminality, thieving etc...yet you still choose to live there, enjoy its freedoms and its capacity to provide you with a pretty decent material life. If you were a man of honor, you'd leave and move elsewhere
(adriatik, 11 October 2011 15:27)
I have never accuse American people of criminality. I accuse the imperialistic American gov't and the 1% in America that makes life difficult for people all over the world, and are now making it difficult for their compatriots.
I guess those people on Occupy Wallstreet are not Americans either because they don't support unjust policies of their corrupt govt.
So you're one and only argument to join the EU is to brain drain Serbia and have its people leave. Are you out of your mind?
(Ari Gold, 11 October 2011 17:06)
Out of curiosity Ari Gold, why don't you take your brain back to Serbia? Why do you not choose to take your wisdom to your homeland for 300E a month, but choose to kep it in the US? If you're that bothered that Serbia will be starved of geniuses, make a start yourslef and go back. Like I sadi, its easy to call for militancy when you live THAT far away from the country.
The point here is that you wish to deprive them of those opportunities, opportunities available to you.
(Danilo, 11 October 2011 18:43)
Wrong. I want to help build a society where there would be no reason to leave your county to seek a good standard of living. You on the other hand, could not give one other reason for the benefit of a organization we are force fed through the media everyday about how great it will be, other than..YOU GET TO LEAVE.
Great, not only do they strip us of territory..we get the chance to be stripped of people too.
I'm glad you see Serbia as a "prison". You can only thank DS with corrupt policies and socialist style bureaucracy that has made it impossible for investors to contribute unless you're a Western multi national corporation.
I'm glad that for a club that Serbian gov't spends billions of dollars trying to convince everyone is great...you cannot give me one good reason for membership other than the smart get to leave..it cements my thinking even more.
You're trying to help?? By typing things from your computer in the corrupted west?
This is exactly the point. You're not trying to help. You don't care about people (actual, real people) in Serbia. You just want Serbia (that far-away place you occasionally visit) to be a certain way for YOU.
I really hope I will make it to Belgrade some day before Xmas or New Year. Let's then have some beers (or hot red wine) and rakija and talk about the history. No matter how complex the Yugoslav history is, it may be an easier subject than present times or future of the Balkans...
(Olli, 12 October 2011 01:03)
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Olli, I only pointed to that documentary to highlight that John Bosnitch has become a bit of a celebrity here in Belgrade. He is well known amongst the Serbs. If we catch up, I can bring him along.
As for the content of the documentary, well it was made by a 23 year old Serbian producer by the name of Boris Malagurski. I preferred his first documentary "Kosovo: Can you imagine?" but for his age, the guy has huge potential. If he is in Belgrade at the time I'll invite him also. With a bit of rakija, I'm sure we'll have a lot to discuss.
"So you're one and only argument to join the EU is to brain drain Serbia and have its people leave"
And you want to imprison them? Why? There needs to be more back and forth. People now have to put a lot of effort and investment into leaving. When they do, like your parents did, there's more reason stay put once you're out. If people could take a job for a year or two outside without it being a hassle, people would feel freer to move back and forth.
All that's beside the point. People will do what they want to do.
The point here is that you wish to deprive them of those opportunities, opportunities available to you.
I guess those people on Occupy Wallstreet are not Americans either because they don't support unjust policies of their corrupt govt.
(Ari Gold, 11 October 2011 17:08)
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Absolutely, we are all on the same side. Serbians, the Wall Street protesters and the true revolutionaries around the world, which is getting stronger and stronger. The old world order is coming to a close while the new world is just beginning. The new cycle is going to be a long and prosperous one (for Serbia also) while the greedy, destructive and egotistical forces that ethnic Albanians so willing support will be destroyed and they will suffer as a result.
I saw the trailer for Weight of Chains. I must say that whoever believes the BS heard on that trailer ("Yugoslavia was en economical success story"), and eventually on the film itself, does not know a thing of Yugoslavia, its condition and its failed interior politics.
Let me tell you just one thing of this success story: the money Yugoslavia received as loans was waisted the very same way as Greece waisted its loans. People were paid salaries way above what their work actually produced, state build a massive and unnecessary state and municipal bureaucracy to employ people, millions and millions were spent in building industry that never functioned. The famous socialist autogestion, workers' self-management system (radničko samoupravljanje) failed, very much for the reason that it actually wasn't led by workers but from higher positions (by non-expert and simple party up-starts, or by hard liners who never wanted to admit they were wrong in any case). Corruption was ever spreading and considered as the modus operandi.
I don't say everything was bad in Yugoslavia. No, that wasn't the case. But the people running the League of Communists of Yugoslavia (Savez komunista Jugoslavije) failed to produce building blocks needed in the making of a successful, democratic, rightful, progressive and innovative country for generally satisfied citizenry. If you want to disagree with this claim, please, do some research and interviews first. Don't get on barricades only equipped with your opinion.
The much repeated claim that it mainly was lazy Yugoslav workers that contributed to the fall of economics is wrong. The economy failed because real and correct criticism toward modus operandi was banned. It was the small local and big federal party apparatchiks and bosses who dictated what's true and right and correct, in spite of the contradicting reality witnessed by many brighter minds.
Believing the lie that outsiders broke Yugoslavia gets you nowhere. Except to sing mir, mir, mir, niko nije kriv. (By the way, have you listened to a similarly named song - niko nije kriv - by the band Dubioza kolektiv? I highly recommend.)
I really hope I will make it to Belgrade some day before Xmas or New Year. Let's then have some beers (or hot red wine) and rakija and talk about the history. No matter how complex the Yugoslav history is, it may be an easier subject than present times or future of the Balkans...
Its rather odd what tends to happen however, the proletariat suddenly become middle class and tend to enjoy their new wealth. They lose ALL ideology and become content with the capitalist system. In case you hadn't noticed, there are over 300 mill people in the US, not all of them are protesting
(Andrew, 11 October 2011 22:57)
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My friend, you are confusing "wealth" with debt. The average US worker has over $100,000 of debt. Every baby born in the US inherits over $40,000 of debt. That's all good and well when the economy is strong, people have jobs and can pay their dues but that isn't the case so people are on the streets.
The true revolution has started my friend, unlike the false "velvet" ones we've seen. Just sit and watch.
Romania- EU and NATO member state
Hungary- EU and NATO member state
Bulgaria- EU and NATO member state
Croatia- will join the EU on 1 July 2013 and is a NATO member state
Montenegro- EU and NATO candidate state
Macedonia- EU and NATO candidate state
Bosnia- a potential EU candidate state and also plans to join NATO
I am proud to be a citizen of the EU.
Long live the European Union!!!!
(Mircea EU citizen, 12 October 2011 10:53)
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Yes Mircea, we've seen it all before. People like you were saying Long live the Soviet Union not too long ago. The cycle repeats but not in the same way. This is an economic war now, not so much military. Germany has a choice, save itself and lose "Europe" or attempt to save "Europe" and lose both.
History repeats:
Romania- Axis and NAZI member
Hungary- Axis and NAZI member
Bulgaria- Axis and NAZI member
Croatia- willingly joined the Axis and was a NAZI member
Montenegro- Occupied by the NAZIs - being forced to join NATO
Macedonia- Occupied by the NAZIs - being forced to join NATO
Bosnia- Occupied by the NAZIs - being forced to join NATO
I do feel sorry for the Romanians as they tend to go the wrong way. First the NAZIs, then Warsaw and now NATO. However, the next cycle with China leading, will be a very long and prosperous one. Romania will make the right choice this time instead of being forced into debt and false dreams.
Joining the Euro today means everyone putting in their fair share of bailout funds for those old EU members Greece (which will default in 3 weeks), Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland.
Greed is part of human nature my friend and people follow the prosperous route. Fortunately, the EU's carrots are pretty rotten if you haven't already noticed. The new batch from the East look and smell much better.
What will Serbia do when it will be completely surrounded by EU and NATO member states?
Serbia is not in Asia. It makes no sense to write about China.
(Mircea EU citizen, 12 October 2011 12:57)
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We will do the same thing as when we were surrounded by the NAZIs.
Serbia is not in the Americas either so if there is a choice between Asia and America, I choose Asia. Look at the Asian economies. There is no talk of an economic crisis there. The emerging world is where prosperity lives especially now that they don't rely so much on the US economy. They are self sufficient these days.
Romania and Serbia will do well when we realign Eastwards.
Notice to everyone in the west having a midlife crisis:
If your career is a failure, if you call yourself a "journalist" but no one else does, then participate in some kind of "Serbia was a victim in the break-up of yugoslavia" and you become a celebrity in some eyes in Serbia.
One day you might even become more famous that Nick Slaughter!
but which options has serbia? i can tell you the options. serbia becomes an eu candidate and joins in some years (10 years or more) the eu or serbia will be isolated look at the map all neighbors of serbia ar either nato and eu members or want to join these 2 organizations. serbia can take and accept the eu carot or get nothing as kosovo will remain independent whatever serbia accepts it or not.
oh wow Zoran...a true revolutionary. Please let me know when the uprising is starting, as there have been so many since Karl Marx preicted the end of Capitalism. Its rather odd what tends to happen however, the proletariat suddenly become middle class and tend to enjoy their new wealth. They lose ALL ideology and become content with the capitalist system. In case you hadn't noticed, there are over 300 mill people in the US, not all of them are protesting
but which options has serbia? i can tell you the options. serbia becomes an eu candidate and joins in some years (10 years or more) the eu or serbia will be isolated look at the map all neighbors of serbia ar either nato and eu members or want to join these 2 organizations. serbia can take and accept the eu carot or get nothing as kosovo will remain independent whatever serbia accepts it or not.
(stasi, 11 October 2011 19:31)
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Such a black and white mind you have. We have the option of staying neutral. Serbia's neighbours do not necessarily "want" to be NATO members more than they are *made* NATO members. The same applies to EU membership, it is sold to European citizens as bringing prosperity but when that doesn't quite work out they start asking questions. Greece is going to default in two or three weeks and somehow people think the EU/Euro is good for them?
Anyway, empires collapse relatively quickly and when alternatives are presented, countries being *made* members of organisations or unions tend to choose what's best for them. China and partners will be knocking very soon. We only need another Orthodox country like Romania, who strongly supports Serbia to choose prosperous China over bankrupt US and the rest will fall in line. This will happen my friend.
Adn soon after the candidate status will be given the video of the Serbian chief nagotiator Stfanovic smoking cigarettes while MUP is burning Jarinje will be shown to the pubblic. Of course this is blantly against any EU values but ahhh shame too late Serbia alredy got the candidate status. And again Serbs will complain about EU and Albanians will love them. Ironic Balkans and the putan EU.
(ben, 11 October 2011 14:30)
Why are you interested in Jarinje post so much? Why do you feel so badly without that post being established?
Merkel wants Albanian judges in south serbia where there are a mojority is Serbian. So what about serbian judges in Pristina ?
Wake up serbia germany hates you :
Stop dreaming!! Romania is proud to be a member state of the EU and NATO. Soon Romania will join the Schengen Area and later my country will adopt the Euro.
Just look at the map. Serbia is surrounded by EU and NATO member states or candidate states.
Romania- EU and NATO member state
Hungary- EU and NATO member state
Bulgaria- EU and NATO member state
Croatia- will join the EU on 1 July 2013 and is a NATO member state
Montenegro- EU and NATO candidate state
Macedonia- EU and NATO candidate state
Bosnia- a potential EU candidate state and also plans to join NATO
Mircea, it's not really up to me or you but the will of the collective people and we will all choose the juicer carrots, which will come from Asia.
bganon, like I said, that documentary was produced and directed by Boris and essentially reflects his opinion as someone who grew up in Yugoslavia. I did not and it doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion.
I watched it at the Belgrade premier in May this year and for a 23 year old, he is doing quite well. I prefer "Kosovo: Can you imagine?" but that is a few years old now.
Oh great, adriatik, the Albanians in Kosovo can then move their drugs and whores around Europe without border checks. Because you know that if Serbia becomes an EU member, the K_Albanians will all claim to be Serbsian citizens.
I know I have been very critical of you people in the past. But all will be forgotten if you don't publish in favor of Serbian membership. I really do not want my country to join the sinking Titanic.
Not that publishing a stupid report will result in Serbia ever joining the EU anyway. However, a negative report will amount to the culmination of Tadic's reign over Serbia which is a really good thing.
So Merkel please stick to your principles. Serbia has not abolished "parallel" institutions in Kosovo so do not "reward" her with candidacy to your illustrious club. Please don't go back on your word, stay true to typical and traditional German values of being confrontational to Serbia. I would really appreciate it.
As much as I'm angry about Germany's view on Northern Kosovo & their interest in the political & legal structure of Serbia's province, I still agree that the EU is analogous with the Titanic.
Germany setting more conditions for membership is like slapping Serbia's pride in the face.
We cannot turn our back on the Serbians in KiM & make decisions that would see them ruled by Albanian officials under Albanian constitutions.
We should never join a club that requires us to give up our land and give in to their obnoxious demands.
It's amazing how people who identify as big serbs want serbs to suffer for nothing really - so they can pat themselves on their backs over they way they've chosen to think of their identity.
The point here is that you wish to deprive them of those opportunities, opportunities available to you.
(Danilo, 11 October 2011 18:43)
Wrong. I want to help build a society where there would be no reason to leave your county to seek a good standard of living. You on the other hand, could not give one other reason for the benefit of a organization we are force fed through the media everyday about how great it will be, other than..YOU GET TO LEAVE.
Great, not only do they strip us of territory..we get the chance to be stripped of people too.
I'm glad you see Serbia as a "prison". You can only thank DS with corrupt policies and socialist style bureaucracy that has made it impossible for investors to contribute unless you're a Western multi national corporation.
I'm glad that for a club that Serbian gov't spends billions of dollars trying to convince everyone is great...you cannot give me one good reason for membership other than the smart get to leave..it cements my thinking even more.
The Belgrade-Pristina talks rely on two parties and if the Kosovo-Albanian side does things, or doesn't wish to talk, Serbia is punished by the EU. In that scenario it seems that Pristina can almost blackmail Serbia.
I always find it odd how the ones on these forums who do not want Serbia to join the EU, are those who won't suffer the consequences of such an occurrence. Basically, it is the Serb diaspora, who much to my surprise, predominately reside in the EU or US, who are against membership. Why is that one wonders? If I had to hazard a guess it'd be this: they already have EU passports and have the freedom to seek work ANYWHERE in the Union. They enjoy the high standard of living they can earn in the West. It's weird and frankly tragic that you would not want your own people to enjoy the same benefits. The advantages to the ordinary Serb will be greater in the EU than out of it. Freedom to study in any EU university on the same fees as any other EU student. Freedom to work and settle in ANY EU country with all personal rights legally protected. The freedom to seek a pension in ANY EU (providing you contribute of course) as any other person of that country. The Serbs who live in the EU and West, enjoy these chances. They do not want the Serbs in Serbia to be privy to the same opportunities. Sad
Macedonia is candiate country since 2005 I think. And all they made out of it is a disney land in centre of their capital.
Albania has her candidate status on desk since 2009 but they are just too busy in offending each other govt - oposition.
What I hate is the fact that EU is not honest.
They shoudl clearly tale Serbia: your behaviour with Kosova is unaceptable for EU standards. Thus no progress towards EU can be made if you do not modernize and change your agressive attitude.
But EU is the old... so they will give candiadate status to Serbia. This will help Tadic in the next years elections. Adn soon after the candidate status will be given the video of the Serbian chief nagotiator Stfanovic smoking cigarettes while MUP is burning Jarinje will be shown to the pubblic. Of course this is blantly against any EU values but ahhh shame too late Serbia alredy got the candidate status. And again Serbs will complain about EU and Albanians will love them. Ironic Balkans and the putan EU.
Romania- EU and NATO member state
Hungary- EU and NATO member state
Bulgaria- EU and NATO member state
Croatia- will join the EU on 1 July 2013 and is a NATO member state
Montenegro- EU and NATO candidate state
Macedonia- EU and NATO candidate state
Bosnia- a potential EU candidate state and also plans to join NATO
I am proud to be a citizen of the EU.
Long live the European Union!!!!
(Mircea EU citizen, 12 October 2011 10:53)
--
Yes Mircea, we've seen it all before. People like you were saying Long live the Soviet Union not too long ago. The cycle repeats but not in the same way. This is an economic war now, not so much military. Germany has a choice, save itself and lose "Europe" or attempt to save "Europe" and lose both.
History repeats:
Romania- Axis and NAZI member
Hungary- Axis and NAZI member
Bulgaria- Axis and NAZI member
Croatia- willingly joined the Axis and was a NAZI member
Montenegro- Occupied by the NAZIs - being forced to join NATO
Macedonia- Occupied by the NAZIs - being forced to join NATO
Bosnia- Occupied by the NAZIs - being forced to join NATO
I do feel sorry for the Romanians as they tend to go the wrong way. First the NAZIs, then Warsaw and now NATO. However, the next cycle with China leading, will be a very long and prosperous one. Romania will make the right choice this time instead of being forced into debt and false dreams.
Joining the Euro today means everyone putting in their fair share of bailout funds for those old EU members Greece (which will default in 3 weeks), Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland.
Greed is part of human nature my friend and people follow the prosperous route. Fortunately, the EU's carrots are pretty rotten if you haven't already noticed. The new batch from the East look and smell much better.
1 example: Young people all over europe have the opportunity to seek employment anywhere in Europe. Serbs are stuck in Serbia competing for 300e/month jobs.
You "Serbs" in the EU/US/Australia are wishing on the young generation of Serbs (knowingly or not), that they have few opportunities for working and education - and for what?
You also see this in returnees - Serbs who have failed in countries they've tried to emigrate to but enjoy preserving for themselves only the privilege of a foreign passport while living in Serbia
Adriatik-you make a redundant point. It goes without saying Serbs want a better life for their compatriots (average Albanians in Kosovo too), all they are saying is that may well be outside of the EU. Many currently living in the peripheral EU would agree.
I do not live in the EU no. But what are these benefits. Why in the hell is it given knowledge that the EU will benefit Serbia? You can't use Slovakia and Czech Republic as reasons why the EU will help Serbia. The union was much different then than it is now. The best way you can compare what Serbia would experience in the EU is Bulgaria and Romania. I have not seen anything positive for either countries since membership. In Romania a guy threw him self off a building at how dire his situation was. The EU promises milk and honey not just too Serbia but to anyone that is looking to leave the union.
The fact is if the majority of people had a democratic right in the EU they would vote to leave the EU. If this is the case, why should Serbia join it? Why should Serbia join a union that is in such a huge debt crisis that shows no signs of letting up, in fact shows that it could get worse.
And notice how I have not brought up the EU's continued hypocrisy when I point out the EU's internal flaws. That's right, even without the Serbophobic policies..it is suicide to join the EU.
adriatic, maybe diaspora commentators are aware that the EU and the US, are not great of a place anymore. I agree with a lot of the posters here that the EU is a sinking ship. Just look at how the EU is forcing the smaller EU economies to pick up the load in rescuing failing members, when they can ill afford to do that because their own economies are in crisis. The huge benefits which you speak of, education, retirement, healthcare, will certainly be cut, and probably in some cases gone. There will simply be no money. People like you, who are EU enthusiasts, still believe that the EU will offer great economic benefits by simply being a member. That is just not true. The smaller fish can expect to share the load of the larger ones. That is why the EU needs them - not to mention markets to sell their junk, plus value added taxes - PDV, of course. Serbs already have freedom of movement in the EU, so that carrot is not a bargaining chip anymore. As for the US, where does one begin? Maybe join those happy people that are protesting Wall street?
I live in Serbia and I don't want Serbia to join the EU. I've seen the brain drain coming from Eastern European countries, where qualified people who couldn't get a job in their home countries come to the UK and clean toilets for a living. Yes, cash payments, less than minimum wage and they live a hard life but their pride keeps them there. Going back as a failure is not an option. Eventually they can afford to rent an Audi for a week and visit home telling everyone how great everything is.
As for qualified people, I have seen Russian, Ukrainian, Belo Russian and Serbian citizens working in the EU due to their skills and nothing to do with the EU. In these cases, where there's a will there's a way, if you put in the effort.
Now giving up KiM for some rotten EU carrots? Hey, ask most Serbians in Serbia and they'll say the same thing as me. We have more pride than most Europeans. Even with €300 a month life isn't too bad here. It just means the family unit stays together for longer and that's not a bad thing.
I know many many Westerners who absolutely love Serbia and from personal experience, it is a fabulous place without the EU. We have free trade and visa free travel. Really, what more do we need?
I'm was going to organise a drinks night for anyone in and around Belgrade this week (even B92 people if interested). John Bosnitch has become a bit of a celebrity here recently due to the Weight of Chains documentary - Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qi50Mun4RA I get him to come along also.
I am a Serb who has returned from the West, so is John. There are many of us and including many non-Serbs who have decided to live here. Send me an email if interested in catching up. zorank@email.com
Adn soon after the candidate status will be given the video of the Serbian chief nagotiator Stfanovic smoking cigarettes while MUP is burning Jarinje will be shown to the pubblic. Of course this is blantly against any EU values but ahhh shame too late Serbia alredy got the candidate status. And again Serbs will complain about EU and Albanians will love them. Ironic Balkans and the putan EU.
(ben, 11 October 2011 14:30)
Why are you interested in Jarinje post so much? Why do you feel so badly without that post being established?
Stop dreaming!! Romania is proud to be a member state of the EU and NATO. Soon Romania will join the Schengen Area and later my country will adopt the Euro.
Just look at the map. Serbia is surrounded by EU and NATO member states or candidate states.
Romania- EU and NATO member state
Hungary- EU and NATO member state
Bulgaria- EU and NATO member state
Croatia- will join the EU on 1 July 2013 and is a NATO member state
Montenegro- EU and NATO candidate state
Macedonia- EU and NATO candidate state
Bosnia- a potential EU candidate state and also plans to join NATO
Ari Gold, I know you don't live in the EU. I also know you live in the US, a country you accuse everyday of criminality, thieving etc...yet you still choose to live there, enjoy its freedoms and its capacity to provide you with a pretty decent material life. If you were a man of honor, you'd leave and move elsewhere
(adriatik, 11 October 2011 15:27)
I have never accuse American people of criminality. I accuse the imperialistic American gov't and the 1% in America that makes life difficult for people all over the world, and are now making it difficult for their compatriots.
I guess those people on Occupy Wallstreet are not Americans either because they don't support unjust policies of their corrupt govt.
I guess those people on Occupy Wallstreet are not Americans either because they don't support unjust policies of their corrupt govt.
(Ari Gold, 11 October 2011 17:08)
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Absolutely, we are all on the same side. Serbians, the Wall Street protesters and the true revolutionaries around the world, which is getting stronger and stronger. The old world order is coming to a close while the new world is just beginning. The new cycle is going to be a long and prosperous one (for Serbia also) while the greedy, destructive and egotistical forces that ethnic Albanians so willing support will be destroyed and they will suffer as a result.
I hope the Serbian government is not blind to see the never ending blackmail that the major EU countries are hatching.
If, for arguement's sake, suppose Tadic agrees to all of their conditions, all that Serbia will get will be a date to START negotiations that would last forever at the EU's pleasure without any guarantee of success or conclusion. Serbia is being taken for a ride and I hope she realizes it -- she is asked to give up her rights in return for vague promises that I think will never be honored. I think the only people who are more despicable than the likes of London and Berlin are those Yankees across the ocean.
There's nothing worse than unquestioning ignorance of such unqualified EU supporters, especially when they think that they consider themselves to be better informed (badly, as is usual), and use it to denigrate those who can see the EU for what it is, many things on paper, many other things in real life. Sure, the EU is on balance 'a good thing', but like the Euro, is qualified in many ways.
As with regard to the news item, it goes to show exactly how one single EU member state can at will usurp the technical and impartial critera for joining the EU so that it fits with their foreign policy objectives, regardless of the opinion of the other Member States. That is the real EU, where the big boys can still kick around the others, and not some Euro-Brady Bunch ideal. It isi hilarious that adriatik declares such love for the EU myth, yet this news item itself undermines that myth! Or doesn't it count because the serbs don't count? The only thing Frau Merkerl didn't put as a condition is that the Serbs in Kosovo should ethnically cleanse themselves from their own land to solve the problem. Everyone in europe is equal, apart from the Serbs. Some EU.
1 example: Young people all over europe have the opportunity to seek employment anywhere in Europe. Serbs are stuck in Serbia competing for 300e/month jobs.
You "Serbs" in the EU/US/Australia are wishing on the young generation of Serbs (knowingly or not), that they have few opportunities for working and education - and for what?
You also see this in returnees - Serbs who have failed in countries they've tried to emigrate to but enjoy preserving for themselves only the privilege of a foreign passport while living in Serbia
(Danilo, 11 October 2011 15:37)
So you're one and only argument to join the EU is to brain drain Serbia and have its people leave. Are you out of your mind?
Oh you mean the Serb free travel. That's great, Albanians of Albania enjoy that one too. You know what they cannot enjoy though, the right to work in the EU FREE OF ANY VISA REQUIREMENT. The Union is experiencing a crisis now, sure, but do you know what, the average person in the EU RIGHT NOW, is still more likely to have a higher income, than say the average person in China, Brazil, Russia. Considering that the EU is also one of the biggest markets in the world, its demise will not be as abrupt as posters here like to project. Considering that China needs the EU to sell its products to, anything happening here, will reverberate back to them. The biggest advantage to the ordinary person though is this, you are not confined to your own borders for work. That means, you are open to look for jobs ANYWHERE in Europe hassle free. Something you do not get in Russia, China, Brazil. Allow me to ask this though, why don't the Serb EU residents who possess EU passports, rip them up, denounce their EU citizenships and move back to Serbia to appreciate life in a Serbia outside the EU. Let them put their money where their mouth is. They advocate a non-EU Serbia, but choose not to live in Serbia. Its easy to have principles when you don't have to face the consequences.
Ari Gold, I know you don't live in the EU. I also know you live in the US, a country you accuse everyday of criminality, thieving etc...yet you still choose to live there, enjoy its freedoms and its capacity to provide you with a pretty decent material life. If you were a man of honor, you'd leave and move elsewhere
"So you're one and only argument to join the EU is to brain drain Serbia and have its people leave"
And you want to imprison them? Why? There needs to be more back and forth. People now have to put a lot of effort and investment into leaving. When they do, like your parents did, there's more reason stay put once you're out. If people could take a job for a year or two outside without it being a hassle, people would feel freer to move back and forth.
All that's beside the point. People will do what they want to do.
The point here is that you wish to deprive them of those opportunities, opportunities available to you.
So you're one and only argument to join the EU is to brain drain Serbia and have its people leave. Are you out of your mind?
(Ari Gold, 11 October 2011 17:06)
Out of curiosity Ari Gold, why don't you take your brain back to Serbia? Why do you not choose to take your wisdom to your homeland for 300E a month, but choose to kep it in the US? If you're that bothered that Serbia will be starved of geniuses, make a start yourslef and go back. Like I sadi, its easy to call for militancy when you live THAT far away from the country.
oh wow Zoran...a true revolutionary. Please let me know when the uprising is starting, as there have been so many since Karl Marx preicted the end of Capitalism. Its rather odd what tends to happen however, the proletariat suddenly become middle class and tend to enjoy their new wealth. They lose ALL ideology and become content with the capitalist system. In case you hadn't noticed, there are over 300 mill people in the US, not all of them are protesting
but which options has serbia? i can tell you the options. serbia becomes an eu candidate and joins in some years (10 years or more) the eu or serbia will be isolated look at the map all neighbors of serbia ar either nato and eu members or want to join these 2 organizations. serbia can take and accept the eu carot or get nothing as kosovo will remain independent whatever serbia accepts it or not.
You're trying to help?? By typing things from your computer in the corrupted west?
This is exactly the point. You're not trying to help. You don't care about people (actual, real people) in Serbia. You just want Serbia (that far-away place you occasionally visit) to be a certain way for YOU.
Olli, Zoran the other irony of Weight of Chains is that on the one hand you have praise for former Jugoslavija as a success story and then some of the very same people who make / support the film were against Jugoslavija, saying it kept Serbia down.
They can't have it both ways. If the West destroyed Jugoslavija, it was made much easier by those Serbs, Croats, etc that were against it. Its a bit late now to be singing the praises of Jugoslavija, now they have got what they wanted. Its a bit late to be lamenting the situation in Kosovo, when the downfall of Jugoslaija ensured that Kos Albanians would want out.
What one won't see of course is a movie that blames both the west and the domestic politicians for destroying Jugoslavija. Instead we get an official version and a revisionist version of events in response.
Call me a stick in the mud but I prefer non Hollywood style movies without 'celebrities' involved where the subject material paints a real picture and not a good / evil divide.
But to return to the subject, will the EU give Tadic his election sweetener??
Mircea, it's not really up to me or you but the will of the collective people and we will all choose the juicer carrots, which will come from Asia.
bganon, like I said, that documentary was produced and directed by Boris and essentially reflects his opinion as someone who grew up in Yugoslavia. I did not and it doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion.
I watched it at the Belgrade premier in May this year and for a 23 year old, he is doing quite well. I prefer "Kosovo: Can you imagine?" but that is a few years old now.
but which options has serbia? i can tell you the options. serbia becomes an eu candidate and joins in some years (10 years or more) the eu or serbia will be isolated look at the map all neighbors of serbia ar either nato and eu members or want to join these 2 organizations. serbia can take and accept the eu carot or get nothing as kosovo will remain independent whatever serbia accepts it or not.
(stasi, 11 October 2011 19:31)
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Such a black and white mind you have. We have the option of staying neutral. Serbia's neighbours do not necessarily "want" to be NATO members more than they are *made* NATO members. The same applies to EU membership, it is sold to European citizens as bringing prosperity but when that doesn't quite work out they start asking questions. Greece is going to default in two or three weeks and somehow people think the EU/Euro is good for them?
Anyway, empires collapse relatively quickly and when alternatives are presented, countries being *made* members of organisations or unions tend to choose what's best for them. China and partners will be knocking very soon. We only need another Orthodox country like Romania, who strongly supports Serbia to choose prosperous China over bankrupt US and the rest will fall in line. This will happen my friend.
I really hope I will make it to Belgrade some day before Xmas or New Year. Let's then have some beers (or hot red wine) and rakija and talk about the history. No matter how complex the Yugoslav history is, it may be an easier subject than present times or future of the Balkans...
(Olli, 12 October 2011 01:03)
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Olli, I only pointed to that documentary to highlight that John Bosnitch has become a bit of a celebrity here in Belgrade. He is well known amongst the Serbs. If we catch up, I can bring him along.
As for the content of the documentary, well it was made by a 23 year old Serbian producer by the name of Boris Malagurski. I preferred his first documentary "Kosovo: Can you imagine?" but for his age, the guy has huge potential. If he is in Belgrade at the time I'll invite him also. With a bit of rakija, I'm sure we'll have a lot to discuss.
I saw the trailer for Weight of Chains. I must say that whoever believes the BS heard on that trailer ("Yugoslavia was en economical success story"), and eventually on the film itself, does not know a thing of Yugoslavia, its condition and its failed interior politics.
Let me tell you just one thing of this success story: the money Yugoslavia received as loans was waisted the very same way as Greece waisted its loans. People were paid salaries way above what their work actually produced, state build a massive and unnecessary state and municipal bureaucracy to employ people, millions and millions were spent in building industry that never functioned. The famous socialist autogestion, workers' self-management system (radničko samoupravljanje) failed, very much for the reason that it actually wasn't led by workers but from higher positions (by non-expert and simple party up-starts, or by hard liners who never wanted to admit they were wrong in any case). Corruption was ever spreading and considered as the modus operandi.
I don't say everything was bad in Yugoslavia. No, that wasn't the case. But the people running the League of Communists of Yugoslavia (Savez komunista Jugoslavije) failed to produce building blocks needed in the making of a successful, democratic, rightful, progressive and innovative country for generally satisfied citizenry. If you want to disagree with this claim, please, do some research and interviews first. Don't get on barricades only equipped with your opinion.
The much repeated claim that it mainly was lazy Yugoslav workers that contributed to the fall of economics is wrong. The economy failed because real and correct criticism toward modus operandi was banned. It was the small local and big federal party apparatchiks and bosses who dictated what's true and right and correct, in spite of the contradicting reality witnessed by many brighter minds.
Believing the lie that outsiders broke Yugoslavia gets you nowhere. Except to sing mir, mir, mir, niko nije kriv. (By the way, have you listened to a similarly named song - niko nije kriv - by the band Dubioza kolektiv? I highly recommend.)
I really hope I will make it to Belgrade some day before Xmas or New Year. Let's then have some beers (or hot red wine) and rakija and talk about the history. No matter how complex the Yugoslav history is, it may be an easier subject than present times or future of the Balkans...
Its rather odd what tends to happen however, the proletariat suddenly become middle class and tend to enjoy their new wealth. They lose ALL ideology and become content with the capitalist system. In case you hadn't noticed, there are over 300 mill people in the US, not all of them are protesting
(Andrew, 11 October 2011 22:57)
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My friend, you are confusing "wealth" with debt. The average US worker has over $100,000 of debt. Every baby born in the US inherits over $40,000 of debt. That's all good and well when the economy is strong, people have jobs and can pay their dues but that isn't the case so people are on the streets.
The true revolution has started my friend, unlike the false "velvet" ones we've seen. Just sit and watch.
What will Serbia do when it will be completely surrounded by EU and NATO member states?
Serbia is not in Asia. It makes no sense to write about China.
(Mircea EU citizen, 12 October 2011 12:57)
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We will do the same thing as when we were surrounded by the NAZIs.
Serbia is not in the Americas either so if there is a choice between Asia and America, I choose Asia. Look at the Asian economies. There is no talk of an economic crisis there. The emerging world is where prosperity lives especially now that they don't rely so much on the US economy. They are self sufficient these days.
Romania and Serbia will do well when we realign Eastwards.
Notice to everyone in the west having a midlife crisis:
If your career is a failure, if you call yourself a "journalist" but no one else does, then participate in some kind of "Serbia was a victim in the break-up of yugoslavia" and you become a celebrity in some eyes in Serbia.
One day you might even become more famous that Nick Slaughter!
Merkel wants Albanian judges in south serbia where there are a mojority is Serbian. So what about serbian judges in Pristina ?
Wake up serbia germany hates you :
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