24

Friday, 07.10.2011.

13:07

"Serbia violated sovereignty of Croatia"

The Croatian parliament on Friday in Zagreb failed to adopt a controversial law on annulling legal acts of the former Yugoslavia, and Serbia.

Izvor: Beta

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24 Komentari

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Mario

pre 12 godina

During the 90-95 war the EU and the UN allowed the Serbs to get away with mass murder for years. The EU and racist "HAGUE" is nothing more then a club of hypocritical european whores. By bringing up the issue of “aggressor and the victim”, on the same defendant`s bench. By bringing up Serbs and Croatians on the same defendant`s bench was “tasteless in relation to values of the western civilisation. Plus you can not forget who started this war, that it was NEVER fought on Serbian territory (until NATO bombed it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df4e_nL-SQ0

The only crime bigger than the war crime is the post war one, for which the aggressor is absolved.

metrod

pre 12 godina

""but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia."

sure...why stop there? you should go into hungary as well and later maybe you an lay claim to bulgaria and romania too. as Agim said, maybe the Atlantic Ocean and Chicago should also be given to Serbia. they have claim to so many lands
alban"

Let's throw Tokyo in there as well.

TP

pre 12 godina

'If Serbia had not resisted the break up of Yugoslavia by military means it would not be in the sorry position it is today.'
Thomas Pumfrett

I think not.

Serbia was, and still is, the designated 'bad guy' in order to justify foreign interference in the region.

Serbia could have sat and done nothing from 1991 and the result might well have been the same.

This is a political trick as old as civilisation itself and it's quite astonishing that so many people can't, or won't, see it.

Ian

pre 12 godina

Jason please read up on your history correctly or stop twisting the facts. The Hasburg Military Frontier was not the Croation Military Frontier. It may be stated in Wikipedia as the Croation military frontier, however, I believe that is just a geographical name of its present location.
The Krajina Frontier, was an uninhabited/mountaniuos strip of land which was offered to the Serbs (escaping the Ottomons after Battle of Kosovo 1389) by the Hasburg dinisty.
The land itself was very poor in regards for farming etc and as such the Serbs in this reason were not taxed, but were required to supply battlions to the Hasburgs if and when required not only to defend from ottoman attack but also as offensive soldiers for the Hasburgs anywhere in Europe.Similarly as the land was very poor for farming the Serbs in this region would mount raids on the neighbouring muslims in Bosnia to obtain food. Hence keeping the muslims in check, which is what the Hasburgs planned.
Due to the region being Tax free Croations also immigrated to the region, but the region and battlions were mainly Serbian. Therefore, the Serbs have a much greater claim to this Military Frontier than the Croats do, and in fact it is well documented by the Hasburgs as such.

alban

pre 12 godina

"but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia."

sure...why stop there? you should go into hungary as well and later maybe you an lay claim to bulgaria and romania too. as Agim said, maybe the Atlantic Ocean and Chicago should also be given to Serbia. they have claim to so many lands

Thomas Pumfrett

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).
(tom, 7 October 2011 19:04)

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.
(Agim Kelmendi, 7 October 2011 19:56) gee where did i say istria is serbian lands ,i didnt i said it was not croaian lands because those lands istria and dalmacia are italian lands not croatian and krajina is serbian lands and not croatian. so maybe read what i said that is serbian and then type but those are facts and soonr or later krajina will have its full autonomy and istria and dalmacia will go back to italy which it has started. but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia.
(tom from canada, 7 October 2011 20:24)


Tom from Canada,

It was attitudes like yours that got Serbia throttled in four wars. Remember, to the winner go the spoils. If Serbia had not resisted the break up of Yugoslavia by military means it would not be in the sorry position it is today.

Margherita

pre 12 godina

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.
(Agim Kelmendi, 7 October 2011 19:56)

Another slow day at the pizza parlor?

tom

pre 12 godina

Why is it that Serbians constantly claim that Krajina is "Serbian land"?

The Krajina region (aka the Croatian Military Frontier) was never a part of Serbia in its history. Yes, there were a lot of Serbs that moved to these lands as a result of the Ottoman Empire occupying their lands in Serbia, but Croats lived on these land even before this period. Serbs were allowed to settle on the land and practice their religion in exchange for fighting alongside the Croats against the growing Ottoman Empire, but this land was never a part of Serbia.

Sure, there was a sizable Serbian population in these lands, just as there is a sizable population of Albanians in Kosovo. So, how can Serbs lay a claim to Krajina yet at the same time lay a claim to Kosovo as well? It doesn't make sense. Krajina is Serbian as much as Kosovo is Albania.
(Jason, 7 October 2011 20:17) because it is serbian lands and what you call the croatian frontier the world called it krajina the serbian wall and the world thanked the serbs for defending it from islam while you croats ran away to austria thats a fact.



Turkish invasion instigated a partial change in the ethnic aspect of Croatian lands. Large numbers of Croats abandoned their homes and moved northward seeking safety, some even going out of Croatia altogether into Austria. In partly depopulated areas the rulers settled......or granted certain privileges to the Serbs who escaped from the Balkans and took refuge in the Vojna Krajina to became defenders of the Habsburg Empire.


Krajina Serbs: Defenders of the Christian Europe



http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/pre-wwOne/Paris-Krajina-Serbs.html




U.S. Government Printing Office, Headquarters



http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/pre-wwOne/Krajina-Serbs.html&sa=U&ei=8JePTpKKLcijsQKNxNSUAQ&ved=0CA8QFjAB&usg=AFQjCNFEo6qvvfhBMEcYfWm-1KXAQ6Dhvg



enjoy the read krajina is and will be serb lands again legally.

sj

pre 12 godina

All of this thrashing and frolicking about by Croatia is good because when all is said and done the Croats will have to do exactly what they are told – exactly as they are told.
They don’t have to pass any laws and who cares if they don’t but I can tell you this that the EU has TOLD not asked but TOLD that they have to work and trade with Serbia. Despite the Croats carrying on about how strong Croatia has become it is an unsustainable country. If you don’t believe this then ask why does Slovenia have to trade closely with Serbia considering it has been part of that heavenly group called the EU all these years?
The days of wine and song are over and now it’s time to pay the musicians and you have to work to do that.
For those Croats that read invented Croat history.. Istra and Dalmatia were Italian colonies that became part of the new Yugo after WW1 after the Serbs cleaned out the Austrians and that is why the Croats never mention that period in their so called history. In fact it was King Alexander that gave Dubrovnik to the Croats – what a fool.
I watch that Vladimir Seks and his reactions in Parliament. He and the other extremists are about to burst at the seams and would like to call Serbs all sorts of names – this guy is livid as he knows what awaits the Croats.

New Zealander

pre 12 godina

Sure she could argue that, but it could also be argued that Croatia violated the soveirenty of Yugoslavia, and that of the Krajina. Its probably best that Kosor doesnt try using that card in a civil war

tom from canada

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).
(tom, 7 October 2011 19:04)

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.
(Agim Kelmendi, 7 October 2011 19:56) gee where did i say istria is serbian lands ,i didnt i said it was not croaian lands because those lands istria and dalmacia are italian lands not croatian and krajina is serbian lands and not croatian. so maybe read what i said that is serbian and then type but those are facts and soonr or later krajina will have its full autonomy and istria and dalmacia will go back to italy which it has started. but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia.

TP

pre 12 godina

'...serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy...'

Better still, Serbs and Croats, as well as Bosniaks and Montenegrins, should understand that apart from religious liturgy and some outdated theological nitpicking there is no difference between them.

Then they can throw out their Western manipulators, end the foul credulity of the last twenty years and restore, even if only in a loose confederate form, the only thing that ever really gave them liberty and peace - Yugoslavia.

Bob

pre 12 godina

They were all traitors to 'Brotherhood and Unity!' Tito was a Croat who ruled everyone in YU - including Serbs!

I aways remember an engineer I met in Belgrade near the beginning of the troubles. He was a Serb who had been driven out of Zargreb in fear of his life having lived there all his life and having contributed constructively (literally as he was an engineer) throughout his career. He was near crying because of the way he had been treated and driven out. He was no one's enemy. I was disgusted at the way he had been treated by Croats - his fellow Slavic 'brothers'.

Before the troubles someone returning from holiday in Croatia talked of graffiti about 'Serbs hanging from the willows'.

Maybe that kind of stinking nationalism is disappearing in Croatia (I don't go there so it is hard to find out), but from what I hear it seems that the kind of fascist pride that underlay Croatia's birth is still there. I think that Germany should be attacked for its unquestioning support of Croatia - there is definitely something wrong there.

Again - I appeal to EU politicians to reconsider the status of Croatia in regard to it joining the EU until there is a deeper soul-searching about its history. There is to much incorrect pride in Croatian politics.

What is good about Serbian politics is that there has been strong intervention against it and there have been consequent facing up to things that happened. Yes, we do read lots of Serbian nationalist postings on this site, but actually I don't think that they represent the politics of the average person. In practice the sense of self-defeat (the sense that the whole world is against Serbia!) brings a much less arrogant attitude in Serbia from what I sense from Croatia.

Could it be that this woman's nationalist politics is at last showing that Croatian nationalism is a boring cause that should fester in the past?

Jason

pre 12 godina

@ tom

Why is it that Serbians constantly claim that Krajina is "Serbian land"?

The Krajina region (aka the Croatian Military Frontier) was never a part of Serbia in its history. Yes, there were a lot of Serbs that moved to these lands as a result of the Ottoman Empire occupying their lands in Serbia, but Croats lived on these land even before this period. Serbs were allowed to settle on the land and practice their religion in exchange for fighting alongside the Croats against the growing Ottoman Empire, but this land was never a part of Serbia.

Sure, there was a sizable Serbian population in these lands, just as there is a sizable population of Albanians in Kosovo. So, how can Serbs lay a claim to Krajina yet at the same time lay a claim to Kosovo as well? It doesn't make sense. Krajina is Serbian as much as Kosovo is Albania.

Agim Kelmendi

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).
(tom, 7 October 2011 19:04)

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.

tom

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).

Yaroslav

pre 12 godina

If I'm not mistaken the man who actually won Bosnia's first presidential election, Fikret Abdic, is now in jail in Croatia. He is in jail for crimes allegedly committed in Bosnia.

If Jadranka Kosor isn't a hypocrite I expect her to pass a declaration right away condeming Croatia's violation of Bosnia's soveirgnity. And the release of Fikret right away.

bganon

pre 12 godina

In a way this is not such a bad thing. It serves to remind the Croatian people who HDZ are and what they stand for. It also serves to remind Croats that they once supported this rabble and in a normalised atmophere it must be highly embarassing to many that they embraced these types of extreme nationalist policies.

The polls are showing that Kosor's support is still flatlining, despite her increased anti Serbian rhetoric, but she is furiously flogging that dead force anyway. Thats also good because she is constantly reminding people that she and HDZ belong to the past.

Considering the corruption of Sanader nobody has any time for him in Croatia today, but his leadership of HDZ as far as reconciliation with Serbs and others were concerned is practically a golden period by HDZ standards. They have gone backwards.

In the Real World

pre 12 godina

"Serbia violated sovereignty of Croatia"

Translation error? Rather:

"Serbia violated sovereignty of Germany"

Croatia is of course part of the German Federal Republic.

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

Kosor is only playing the nationalist card because her party the HDZ is getting extremely unpopular, but the croats always get hysterical with joy when anyone praises Gotovina or says something against Serbia or Serbs. She is desperate to remain as PM and to keep her party from being voted out.

Get Real

pre 12 godina

Am I missing something? How did Serbia violate Croatia's sovereinty when the territory at the time belong to Yugoslavia! The more I read about Kosor the more I think she is a Nationalist.

Jason

pre 12 godina

@ tom

Why is it that Serbians constantly claim that Krajina is "Serbian land"?

The Krajina region (aka the Croatian Military Frontier) was never a part of Serbia in its history. Yes, there were a lot of Serbs that moved to these lands as a result of the Ottoman Empire occupying their lands in Serbia, but Croats lived on these land even before this period. Serbs were allowed to settle on the land and practice their religion in exchange for fighting alongside the Croats against the growing Ottoman Empire, but this land was never a part of Serbia.

Sure, there was a sizable Serbian population in these lands, just as there is a sizable population of Albanians in Kosovo. So, how can Serbs lay a claim to Krajina yet at the same time lay a claim to Kosovo as well? It doesn't make sense. Krajina is Serbian as much as Kosovo is Albania.

Agim Kelmendi

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).
(tom, 7 October 2011 19:04)

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.

TP

pre 12 godina

'...serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy...'

Better still, Serbs and Croats, as well as Bosniaks and Montenegrins, should understand that apart from religious liturgy and some outdated theological nitpicking there is no difference between them.

Then they can throw out their Western manipulators, end the foul credulity of the last twenty years and restore, even if only in a loose confederate form, the only thing that ever really gave them liberty and peace - Yugoslavia.

Bob

pre 12 godina

They were all traitors to 'Brotherhood and Unity!' Tito was a Croat who ruled everyone in YU - including Serbs!

I aways remember an engineer I met in Belgrade near the beginning of the troubles. He was a Serb who had been driven out of Zargreb in fear of his life having lived there all his life and having contributed constructively (literally as he was an engineer) throughout his career. He was near crying because of the way he had been treated and driven out. He was no one's enemy. I was disgusted at the way he had been treated by Croats - his fellow Slavic 'brothers'.

Before the troubles someone returning from holiday in Croatia talked of graffiti about 'Serbs hanging from the willows'.

Maybe that kind of stinking nationalism is disappearing in Croatia (I don't go there so it is hard to find out), but from what I hear it seems that the kind of fascist pride that underlay Croatia's birth is still there. I think that Germany should be attacked for its unquestioning support of Croatia - there is definitely something wrong there.

Again - I appeal to EU politicians to reconsider the status of Croatia in regard to it joining the EU until there is a deeper soul-searching about its history. There is to much incorrect pride in Croatian politics.

What is good about Serbian politics is that there has been strong intervention against it and there have been consequent facing up to things that happened. Yes, we do read lots of Serbian nationalist postings on this site, but actually I don't think that they represent the politics of the average person. In practice the sense of self-defeat (the sense that the whole world is against Serbia!) brings a much less arrogant attitude in Serbia from what I sense from Croatia.

Could it be that this woman's nationalist politics is at last showing that Croatian nationalism is a boring cause that should fester in the past?

In the Real World

pre 12 godina

"Serbia violated sovereignty of Croatia"

Translation error? Rather:

"Serbia violated sovereignty of Germany"

Croatia is of course part of the German Federal Republic.

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

Kosor is only playing the nationalist card because her party the HDZ is getting extremely unpopular, but the croats always get hysterical with joy when anyone praises Gotovina or says something against Serbia or Serbs. She is desperate to remain as PM and to keep her party from being voted out.

Get Real

pre 12 godina

Am I missing something? How did Serbia violate Croatia's sovereinty when the territory at the time belong to Yugoslavia! The more I read about Kosor the more I think she is a Nationalist.

tom from canada

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).
(tom, 7 October 2011 19:04)

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.
(Agim Kelmendi, 7 October 2011 19:56) gee where did i say istria is serbian lands ,i didnt i said it was not croaian lands because those lands istria and dalmacia are italian lands not croatian and krajina is serbian lands and not croatian. so maybe read what i said that is serbian and then type but those are facts and soonr or later krajina will have its full autonomy and istria and dalmacia will go back to italy which it has started. but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia.

tom

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).

bganon

pre 12 godina

In a way this is not such a bad thing. It serves to remind the Croatian people who HDZ are and what they stand for. It also serves to remind Croats that they once supported this rabble and in a normalised atmophere it must be highly embarassing to many that they embraced these types of extreme nationalist policies.

The polls are showing that Kosor's support is still flatlining, despite her increased anti Serbian rhetoric, but she is furiously flogging that dead force anyway. Thats also good because she is constantly reminding people that she and HDZ belong to the past.

Considering the corruption of Sanader nobody has any time for him in Croatia today, but his leadership of HDZ as far as reconciliation with Serbs and others were concerned is practically a golden period by HDZ standards. They have gone backwards.

Yaroslav

pre 12 godina

If I'm not mistaken the man who actually won Bosnia's first presidential election, Fikret Abdic, is now in jail in Croatia. He is in jail for crimes allegedly committed in Bosnia.

If Jadranka Kosor isn't a hypocrite I expect her to pass a declaration right away condeming Croatia's violation of Bosnia's soveirgnity. And the release of Fikret right away.

Ian

pre 12 godina

Jason please read up on your history correctly or stop twisting the facts. The Hasburg Military Frontier was not the Croation Military Frontier. It may be stated in Wikipedia as the Croation military frontier, however, I believe that is just a geographical name of its present location.
The Krajina Frontier, was an uninhabited/mountaniuos strip of land which was offered to the Serbs (escaping the Ottomons after Battle of Kosovo 1389) by the Hasburg dinisty.
The land itself was very poor in regards for farming etc and as such the Serbs in this reason were not taxed, but were required to supply battlions to the Hasburgs if and when required not only to defend from ottoman attack but also as offensive soldiers for the Hasburgs anywhere in Europe.Similarly as the land was very poor for farming the Serbs in this region would mount raids on the neighbouring muslims in Bosnia to obtain food. Hence keeping the muslims in check, which is what the Hasburgs planned.
Due to the region being Tax free Croations also immigrated to the region, but the region and battlions were mainly Serbian. Therefore, the Serbs have a much greater claim to this Military Frontier than the Croats do, and in fact it is well documented by the Hasburgs as such.

Thomas Pumfrett

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).
(tom, 7 October 2011 19:04)

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.
(Agim Kelmendi, 7 October 2011 19:56) gee where did i say istria is serbian lands ,i didnt i said it was not croaian lands because those lands istria and dalmacia are italian lands not croatian and krajina is serbian lands and not croatian. so maybe read what i said that is serbian and then type but those are facts and soonr or later krajina will have its full autonomy and istria and dalmacia will go back to italy which it has started. but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia.
(tom from canada, 7 October 2011 20:24)


Tom from Canada,

It was attitudes like yours that got Serbia throttled in four wars. Remember, to the winner go the spoils. If Serbia had not resisted the break up of Yugoslavia by military means it would not be in the sorry position it is today.

tom

pre 12 godina

Why is it that Serbians constantly claim that Krajina is "Serbian land"?

The Krajina region (aka the Croatian Military Frontier) was never a part of Serbia in its history. Yes, there were a lot of Serbs that moved to these lands as a result of the Ottoman Empire occupying their lands in Serbia, but Croats lived on these land even before this period. Serbs were allowed to settle on the land and practice their religion in exchange for fighting alongside the Croats against the growing Ottoman Empire, but this land was never a part of Serbia.

Sure, there was a sizable Serbian population in these lands, just as there is a sizable population of Albanians in Kosovo. So, how can Serbs lay a claim to Krajina yet at the same time lay a claim to Kosovo as well? It doesn't make sense. Krajina is Serbian as much as Kosovo is Albania.
(Jason, 7 October 2011 20:17) because it is serbian lands and what you call the croatian frontier the world called it krajina the serbian wall and the world thanked the serbs for defending it from islam while you croats ran away to austria thats a fact.



Turkish invasion instigated a partial change in the ethnic aspect of Croatian lands. Large numbers of Croats abandoned their homes and moved northward seeking safety, some even going out of Croatia altogether into Austria. In partly depopulated areas the rulers settled......or granted certain privileges to the Serbs who escaped from the Balkans and took refuge in the Vojna Krajina to became defenders of the Habsburg Empire.


Krajina Serbs: Defenders of the Christian Europe



http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/pre-wwOne/Paris-Krajina-Serbs.html




U.S. Government Printing Office, Headquarters



http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/pre-wwOne/Krajina-Serbs.html&sa=U&ei=8JePTpKKLcijsQKNxNSUAQ&ved=0CA8QFjAB&usg=AFQjCNFEo6qvvfhBMEcYfWm-1KXAQ6Dhvg



enjoy the read krajina is and will be serb lands again legally.

sj

pre 12 godina

All of this thrashing and frolicking about by Croatia is good because when all is said and done the Croats will have to do exactly what they are told – exactly as they are told.
They don’t have to pass any laws and who cares if they don’t but I can tell you this that the EU has TOLD not asked but TOLD that they have to work and trade with Serbia. Despite the Croats carrying on about how strong Croatia has become it is an unsustainable country. If you don’t believe this then ask why does Slovenia have to trade closely with Serbia considering it has been part of that heavenly group called the EU all these years?
The days of wine and song are over and now it’s time to pay the musicians and you have to work to do that.
For those Croats that read invented Croat history.. Istra and Dalmatia were Italian colonies that became part of the new Yugo after WW1 after the Serbs cleaned out the Austrians and that is why the Croats never mention that period in their so called history. In fact it was King Alexander that gave Dubrovnik to the Croats – what a fool.
I watch that Vladimir Seks and his reactions in Parliament. He and the other extremists are about to burst at the seams and would like to call Serbs all sorts of names – this guy is livid as he knows what awaits the Croats.

alban

pre 12 godina

"but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia."

sure...why stop there? you should go into hungary as well and later maybe you an lay claim to bulgaria and romania too. as Agim said, maybe the Atlantic Ocean and Chicago should also be given to Serbia. they have claim to so many lands

New Zealander

pre 12 godina

Sure she could argue that, but it could also be argued that Croatia violated the soveirenty of Yugoslavia, and that of the Krajina. Its probably best that Kosor doesnt try using that card in a civil war

Margherita

pre 12 godina

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.
(Agim Kelmendi, 7 October 2011 19:56)

Another slow day at the pizza parlor?

metrod

pre 12 godina

""but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia."

sure...why stop there? you should go into hungary as well and later maybe you an lay claim to bulgaria and romania too. as Agim said, maybe the Atlantic Ocean and Chicago should also be given to Serbia. they have claim to so many lands
alban"

Let's throw Tokyo in there as well.

Mario

pre 12 godina

During the 90-95 war the EU and the UN allowed the Serbs to get away with mass murder for years. The EU and racist "HAGUE" is nothing more then a club of hypocritical european whores. By bringing up the issue of “aggressor and the victim”, on the same defendant`s bench. By bringing up Serbs and Croatians on the same defendant`s bench was “tasteless in relation to values of the western civilisation. Plus you can not forget who started this war, that it was NEVER fought on Serbian territory (until NATO bombed it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df4e_nL-SQ0

The only crime bigger than the war crime is the post war one, for which the aggressor is absolved.

TP

pre 12 godina

'If Serbia had not resisted the break up of Yugoslavia by military means it would not be in the sorry position it is today.'
Thomas Pumfrett

I think not.

Serbia was, and still is, the designated 'bad guy' in order to justify foreign interference in the region.

Serbia could have sat and done nothing from 1991 and the result might well have been the same.

This is a political trick as old as civilisation itself and it's quite astonishing that so many people can't, or won't, see it.

tom

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).

tom from canada

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).
(tom, 7 October 2011 19:04)

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.
(Agim Kelmendi, 7 October 2011 19:56) gee where did i say istria is serbian lands ,i didnt i said it was not croaian lands because those lands istria and dalmacia are italian lands not croatian and krajina is serbian lands and not croatian. so maybe read what i said that is serbian and then type but those are facts and soonr or later krajina will have its full autonomy and istria and dalmacia will go back to italy which it has started. but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia.

Agim Kelmendi

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).
(tom, 7 October 2011 19:04)

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.

Jason

pre 12 godina

@ tom

Why is it that Serbians constantly claim that Krajina is "Serbian land"?

The Krajina region (aka the Croatian Military Frontier) was never a part of Serbia in its history. Yes, there were a lot of Serbs that moved to these lands as a result of the Ottoman Empire occupying their lands in Serbia, but Croats lived on these land even before this period. Serbs were allowed to settle on the land and practice their religion in exchange for fighting alongside the Croats against the growing Ottoman Empire, but this land was never a part of Serbia.

Sure, there was a sizable Serbian population in these lands, just as there is a sizable population of Albanians in Kosovo. So, how can Serbs lay a claim to Krajina yet at the same time lay a claim to Kosovo as well? It doesn't make sense. Krajina is Serbian as much as Kosovo is Albania.

TP

pre 12 godina

'...serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy...'

Better still, Serbs and Croats, as well as Bosniaks and Montenegrins, should understand that apart from religious liturgy and some outdated theological nitpicking there is no difference between them.

Then they can throw out their Western manipulators, end the foul credulity of the last twenty years and restore, even if only in a loose confederate form, the only thing that ever really gave them liberty and peace - Yugoslavia.

SCP UK

pre 12 godina

Kosor is only playing the nationalist card because her party the HDZ is getting extremely unpopular, but the croats always get hysterical with joy when anyone praises Gotovina or says something against Serbia or Serbs. She is desperate to remain as PM and to keep her party from being voted out.

Get Real

pre 12 godina

Am I missing something? How did Serbia violate Croatia's sovereinty when the territory at the time belong to Yugoslavia! The more I read about Kosor the more I think she is a Nationalist.

Bob

pre 12 godina

They were all traitors to 'Brotherhood and Unity!' Tito was a Croat who ruled everyone in YU - including Serbs!

I aways remember an engineer I met in Belgrade near the beginning of the troubles. He was a Serb who had been driven out of Zargreb in fear of his life having lived there all his life and having contributed constructively (literally as he was an engineer) throughout his career. He was near crying because of the way he had been treated and driven out. He was no one's enemy. I was disgusted at the way he had been treated by Croats - his fellow Slavic 'brothers'.

Before the troubles someone returning from holiday in Croatia talked of graffiti about 'Serbs hanging from the willows'.

Maybe that kind of stinking nationalism is disappearing in Croatia (I don't go there so it is hard to find out), but from what I hear it seems that the kind of fascist pride that underlay Croatia's birth is still there. I think that Germany should be attacked for its unquestioning support of Croatia - there is definitely something wrong there.

Again - I appeal to EU politicians to reconsider the status of Croatia in regard to it joining the EU until there is a deeper soul-searching about its history. There is to much incorrect pride in Croatian politics.

What is good about Serbian politics is that there has been strong intervention against it and there have been consequent facing up to things that happened. Yes, we do read lots of Serbian nationalist postings on this site, but actually I don't think that they represent the politics of the average person. In practice the sense of self-defeat (the sense that the whole world is against Serbia!) brings a much less arrogant attitude in Serbia from what I sense from Croatia.

Could it be that this woman's nationalist politics is at last showing that Croatian nationalism is a boring cause that should fester in the past?

In the Real World

pre 12 godina

"Serbia violated sovereignty of Croatia"

Translation error? Rather:

"Serbia violated sovereignty of Germany"

Croatia is of course part of the German Federal Republic.

Ian

pre 12 godina

Jason please read up on your history correctly or stop twisting the facts. The Hasburg Military Frontier was not the Croation Military Frontier. It may be stated in Wikipedia as the Croation military frontier, however, I believe that is just a geographical name of its present location.
The Krajina Frontier, was an uninhabited/mountaniuos strip of land which was offered to the Serbs (escaping the Ottomons after Battle of Kosovo 1389) by the Hasburg dinisty.
The land itself was very poor in regards for farming etc and as such the Serbs in this reason were not taxed, but were required to supply battlions to the Hasburgs if and when required not only to defend from ottoman attack but also as offensive soldiers for the Hasburgs anywhere in Europe.Similarly as the land was very poor for farming the Serbs in this region would mount raids on the neighbouring muslims in Bosnia to obtain food. Hence keeping the muslims in check, which is what the Hasburgs planned.
Due to the region being Tax free Croations also immigrated to the region, but the region and battlions were mainly Serbian. Therefore, the Serbs have a much greater claim to this Military Frontier than the Croats do, and in fact it is well documented by the Hasburgs as such.

tom

pre 12 godina

Why is it that Serbians constantly claim that Krajina is "Serbian land"?

The Krajina region (aka the Croatian Military Frontier) was never a part of Serbia in its history. Yes, there were a lot of Serbs that moved to these lands as a result of the Ottoman Empire occupying their lands in Serbia, but Croats lived on these land even before this period. Serbs were allowed to settle on the land and practice their religion in exchange for fighting alongside the Croats against the growing Ottoman Empire, but this land was never a part of Serbia.

Sure, there was a sizable Serbian population in these lands, just as there is a sizable population of Albanians in Kosovo. So, how can Serbs lay a claim to Krajina yet at the same time lay a claim to Kosovo as well? It doesn't make sense. Krajina is Serbian as much as Kosovo is Albania.
(Jason, 7 October 2011 20:17) because it is serbian lands and what you call the croatian frontier the world called it krajina the serbian wall and the world thanked the serbs for defending it from islam while you croats ran away to austria thats a fact.



Turkish invasion instigated a partial change in the ethnic aspect of Croatian lands. Large numbers of Croats abandoned their homes and moved northward seeking safety, some even going out of Croatia altogether into Austria. In partly depopulated areas the rulers settled......or granted certain privileges to the Serbs who escaped from the Balkans and took refuge in the Vojna Krajina to became defenders of the Habsburg Empire.


Krajina Serbs: Defenders of the Christian Europe



http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/pre-wwOne/Paris-Krajina-Serbs.html




U.S. Government Printing Office, Headquarters



http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/pre-wwOne/Krajina-Serbs.html&sa=U&ei=8JePTpKKLcijsQKNxNSUAQ&ved=0CA8QFjAB&usg=AFQjCNFEo6qvvfhBMEcYfWm-1KXAQ6Dhvg



enjoy the read krajina is and will be serb lands again legally.

sj

pre 12 godina

All of this thrashing and frolicking about by Croatia is good because when all is said and done the Croats will have to do exactly what they are told – exactly as they are told.
They don’t have to pass any laws and who cares if they don’t but I can tell you this that the EU has TOLD not asked but TOLD that they have to work and trade with Serbia. Despite the Croats carrying on about how strong Croatia has become it is an unsustainable country. If you don’t believe this then ask why does Slovenia have to trade closely with Serbia considering it has been part of that heavenly group called the EU all these years?
The days of wine and song are over and now it’s time to pay the musicians and you have to work to do that.
For those Croats that read invented Croat history.. Istra and Dalmatia were Italian colonies that became part of the new Yugo after WW1 after the Serbs cleaned out the Austrians and that is why the Croats never mention that period in their so called history. In fact it was King Alexander that gave Dubrovnik to the Croats – what a fool.
I watch that Vladimir Seks and his reactions in Parliament. He and the other extremists are about to burst at the seams and would like to call Serbs all sorts of names – this guy is livid as he knows what awaits the Croats.

New Zealander

pre 12 godina

Sure she could argue that, but it could also be argued that Croatia violated the soveirenty of Yugoslavia, and that of the Krajina. Its probably best that Kosor doesnt try using that card in a civil war

alban

pre 12 godina

"but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia."

sure...why stop there? you should go into hungary as well and later maybe you an lay claim to bulgaria and romania too. as Agim said, maybe the Atlantic Ocean and Chicago should also be given to Serbia. they have claim to so many lands

bganon

pre 12 godina

In a way this is not such a bad thing. It serves to remind the Croatian people who HDZ are and what they stand for. It also serves to remind Croats that they once supported this rabble and in a normalised atmophere it must be highly embarassing to many that they embraced these types of extreme nationalist policies.

The polls are showing that Kosor's support is still flatlining, despite her increased anti Serbian rhetoric, but she is furiously flogging that dead force anyway. Thats also good because she is constantly reminding people that she and HDZ belong to the past.

Considering the corruption of Sanader nobody has any time for him in Croatia today, but his leadership of HDZ as far as reconciliation with Serbs and others were concerned is practically a golden period by HDZ standards. They have gone backwards.

TP

pre 12 godina

'If Serbia had not resisted the break up of Yugoslavia by military means it would not be in the sorry position it is today.'
Thomas Pumfrett

I think not.

Serbia was, and still is, the designated 'bad guy' in order to justify foreign interference in the region.

Serbia could have sat and done nothing from 1991 and the result might well have been the same.

This is a political trick as old as civilisation itself and it's quite astonishing that so many people can't, or won't, see it.

Mario

pre 12 godina

During the 90-95 war the EU and the UN allowed the Serbs to get away with mass murder for years. The EU and racist "HAGUE" is nothing more then a club of hypocritical european whores. By bringing up the issue of “aggressor and the victim”, on the same defendant`s bench. By bringing up Serbs and Croatians on the same defendant`s bench was “tasteless in relation to values of the western civilisation. Plus you can not forget who started this war, that it was NEVER fought on Serbian territory (until NATO bombed it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df4e_nL-SQ0

The only crime bigger than the war crime is the post war one, for which the aggressor is absolved.

Thomas Pumfrett

pre 12 godina

it was croatia that violated serbian lands of krajina which is not croatian lands, and the same goes for dalmacia and istria which also is not croatian lands so we see who did what to whome. the serbs should take croatia to international court for their lands of krajina and ask for full autonomy and then eventual independance and get full compensation from the government of croatia (zagreb).
(tom, 7 October 2011 19:04)

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.
(Agim Kelmendi, 7 October 2011 19:56) gee where did i say istria is serbian lands ,i didnt i said it was not croaian lands because those lands istria and dalmacia are italian lands not croatian and krajina is serbian lands and not croatian. so maybe read what i said that is serbian and then type but those are facts and soonr or later krajina will have its full autonomy and istria and dalmacia will go back to italy which it has started. but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia.
(tom from canada, 7 October 2011 20:24)


Tom from Canada,

It was attitudes like yours that got Serbia throttled in four wars. Remember, to the winner go the spoils. If Serbia had not resisted the break up of Yugoslavia by military means it would not be in the sorry position it is today.

metrod

pre 12 godina

""but for you kosovo is still part of serbia and always will be but we know that albania has a 35% none albanian population.south albania back to greece and the north back to serbia."

sure...why stop there? you should go into hungary as well and later maybe you an lay claim to bulgaria and romania too. as Agim said, maybe the Atlantic Ocean and Chicago should also be given to Serbia. they have claim to so many lands
alban"

Let's throw Tokyo in there as well.

Yaroslav

pre 12 godina

If I'm not mistaken the man who actually won Bosnia's first presidential election, Fikret Abdic, is now in jail in Croatia. He is in jail for crimes allegedly committed in Bosnia.

If Jadranka Kosor isn't a hypocrite I expect her to pass a declaration right away condeming Croatia's violation of Bosnia's soveirgnity. And the release of Fikret right away.

Margherita

pre 12 godina

Gee, I never knew that Serbdom stretches all way to Istria? Might as well cross the Atlantic Ocean and go alway to Ohio or Chicago.
(Agim Kelmendi, 7 October 2011 19:56)

Another slow day at the pizza parlor?