There is an attempt in Vojvodina to create a new nation of “Vojvodinians”, said Democratic Party of Serbia (DSS) provincial board Spokesman Milinko Jovanov.
Hi Vlado, i am this idiot who commented on Vojvodjani being blonder than the rest of Serbs, and unfortunately i have never met your relatives. This idea is not only mine, south serbs/sumadinci are definitely darker than the vojvodjani, but this was just a joke that i used to express the exactly opposite thought of what you naively perceived : it was a joke.
PS.
In all sincerity, Serbian nationalism is the reason why Serbs still exist in Kosovo and Bosnia. Without it, Serbs would today number less than 3 milion ppl, and maybe would soon cease to exist as a nation.
What will happen? The same thing which occured in Germany.
The yugoslav peoples are a mixed lot much like the germans were for hundreds of years right up to 1871.
In the days of Martin Luther and Frederik the great,you were not neccesarily German,you were Bavarian or Prussian or whatever State you came from.Constant foregin imperialism and decentralisation kept these states in a locked mode of inter rival status quo for centuries although slowly but surely a common identity is built.
Today its much the same in the Balkans and in the yugosphere in particular.The idea of being a YUGO is quit young,no more than about a century old.Eventually the Yugoslav people in a new age of internet,fast travel and close proximity will conglamerate.After people will finally be fed up with nationalists and clericalism the process will take full swing.Secularism will be key to that since the only thing that (yeah lets be honest) defines someone as Serb,Croat,bosniak or whatever is religeon.If religeon is taken out of the equation then progress can take place as it did in Germany and Italy,so to shall it take place in Yugoslavia.
Hey nationalists may not like it but thats pretty much the truth and what it going to happen.This hype in Vojvodina is obviously a dss scare tactic,something which the HDZ,SDA or Obraz would try to pull out.The assimilation of the yugosphere may take decades or even centuries,but in the end it will happen.
who cares what they say it looks like vojvodina will have a 80% serb population in 2011 and more and more don't like this pajic charactor and vojvodina will not seperate with no back up from all of the population of the province ,thats the end of that. and there is well over 2 million serbs in former yugoslavia . outside of serbia and what will be is RS will join serbia which it has already and later krajina will get a special status also and in montenegro the serbs are going to have a more play since more and more are saying they are serbs.its changing in the former yugoslavi in which it will be better for serbs in the area,and in vojvodina every serb are saying they are serbs and no vojvodin lol
@Danilo, I don't think that there is any chance of Vojvodina separating but there is a lot of resentment and anger over the loss of autonomy and the difficulties in regaining some of it. And these paranoid accusations of separatism are downright insulting. There is also the fact that the standard of living is so much lower than places like Hungary or Croatia which were historically on a similar level. Let's face it. Belgrade has mismanaged every single crisis or tension for 25 years and managed to alienate just about everyone. It is going to take a lot of work by the Serbian leadership to win anyone's trust and confidence. When will the majority of Serbs realize and understand this? The more stubborn and belligerent Serbia is the more it loses in the long run.
Not that any of this matters too much but who is this idiot claiming that Vojvodjani are the blondest Serbs? My Serb relatives in Backa and Banat (none of them recent settlers from other parts of ex-YU) are all extremely dark-haired and dark-complexioned while most of my Bosnian Serb relatives are blonde and blue-eyed. As for ethnic identity, why not allow people to claim whatever identity they want? And why not stop to think about how the paranoid Serb ultranationalism of the past 25 years has turned more and more people away from the Serbian identity? From Vojvodina to Sandzak to of course Montenegro not to mention many emigres. Unlike many nations in the West, the Serb nation was never quite solidified as an identity and certainly as a territory. Serb nationalists chose to make this identity as exclusionary as possibly and it has been a huge failure.
''Actually Serbs, as an originally Slavic nation, should be blond and blue eyed, the dark skin, hair and eyes of the Montenegrians and majority of Serbs is yet another inheritence from the Turks. Genetic studies carried out after the wars showed that the purest blooded Slavs (therefore Serbs)in the region are...Bosniaks!
(foodforthought, 4 October 2011 12:58) ''
Ancient turks were yellowish like central asians today are, small chinese eyes, etc, the tan skin is a property of autoctone anatolians and greeks, arabs, persians etc...blonde and blue eys are recessive, a person with brune traits may have the blonde and blue genes as well, also, many germans, irish english etc have dark hair dark eys, and they were not under ottomans...anyway, back to montenegrins, they are the most similar people to albanians in balkans, even albanian themselves do not look as much as albanian as montenegrins. Genetically, Albanians are close to greeks and montenegrins, kosovo albanians are also close to bulgarians but that is just my opinion . Germans grouped us all as a dynaric race, long face, dark eys varying to green, ugly noses, dark hair varying to corn color..long legs, rather slim body.
Yet, i find it funny to point genetics as a default for a nation, the genes were formed during a period of 4 million years, the oldest nation, which i think are the chinese, are not more than 10 000 years old...but of course, a serb or an albanian can not have black skin, little little curly hair etc...
Sorry to dissapoint all “Vojvodinians” but EU has stated that the breakup of former Yugoslavia has come to an end. The EU doesn't need another Kosovo on their hands. Look at the troubles Kosovo, with a 90 percent albanian majority, has to gain true independence and UN membership. For Vojvodina it's simply impossible, especially since its population is 76 percent serb.
I have read "Drina's bridge", AFIIR, Ivo Andric never commented on such silly perceptions.
PS
By the same logic, do you consider dark Bosniaks as Serbs as well?
One of the first mentions of Slavs was by a guy named Procopius in 545, who describes them as not blond nor dark but ruddy.
As for the rest of your comment you're painfully ignorant of history. Read "The Bridge on the Drina" by Ivo Andric for an explanation of why the Bosniaks managed to stay blonde. And the small bits of Montenegro that were never under Ottoman rule were conquered by the Venetians, also dark, except for Risan and Perast, were you will still find a lot of ruddy looking folk, all related, but that's another story.
OK,than how can 40thousand people ask for Independence in northern Mitro?
I bet you, you haven't thought of that!
(Agim Kelmendi, 4 October 2011 13:45)
Of course they can since they comprise 97% of the population up there and have never had the pleasure of choking on the sweet taste of Kosova's "law and order" :)
"if Montenegrins (the truest, tallest, oldest, cleanest) Serbs broke away, then why not the the Vojvodjani? (the richest, more european, blondest etc...) ???"
Actually Serbs, as an originally Slavic nation, should be blond and blue eyed, the dark skin, hair and eyes of the Montenegrians and majority of Serbs is yet another inheritence from the Turks. Genetic studies carried out after the wars showed that the purest blooded Slavs (therefore Serbs)in the region are...Bosniaks!
Hungarians in Vojvodina, Croats in Vojvodina, Slovaks in Vojvodina, etc - minorities in vojvodina might like to live in the country of Vojvodina for one reason:
To finally have an identity.
I have a friend who is hungarian serbian, and when he travels he cannot say he's a Serbian because Serbs say he's a Hungarian.
He cannot say he's a hungarian, because Hungarians in Hungary say he's a Serbian...
So what is he?
If Vojvodina became a country, he could finally say proudly I am a Vojvodijan or whatever the country might be called... get what I mean?
Yes Danilo I think DSS are trying to take a leaf from the HDZ lesson book about motivating their hardcore voters.
Basically trying to motivate people by scaring them. But you are right DSS belong in the dustbin of political history. The corruption which they spearheaded at Kolubara is another nail in the coffin.
Danilo,
if Montenegrins (the truest, tallest, oldest, cleanest) Serbs broke away, then why not the the Vojvodjani? (the richest, more european, blondest etc...) ???
This time and day, 2,000,000 serbs live in ex-yu republics (outside Serbia), the natural thing would be that RS and Montenegro re-unite with Serbia. FBIH (once the ultra islamists step off) and Makedonia (once the ancient alexanders step off) would be good additions as well.
This is nothing but some kind of impotent revenge fantasy. DSS and their like are completely marginalized (where they belong) and will be further marginalized in the next elections.
They just hate Serbia now and WISH that it's true that Vojvodina would separate because that would make them RIGHT (and "you should have listened to us").
Vojvodina is comprised of 70% Serbs and Hungarians are entitled to an EU passport, so why would they bother with such a thing. I would like to see the slightest, the tiniest shred of explanation or the smallest piece of evidence that this an actual possibility.
If it IS a possibility, then it would be a good question to ask why these Serbs want to get away from Serbs.
Either that or they're just fear mongering to the ignorant who think their smart(their base).
This is nothing but some kind of impotent revenge fantasy. DSS and their like are completely marginalized (where they belong) and will be further marginalized in the next elections.
They just hate Serbia now and WISH that it's true that Vojvodina would separate because that would make them RIGHT (and "you should have listened to us").
Vojvodina is comprised of 70% Serbs and Hungarians are entitled to an EU passport, so why would they bother with such a thing. I would like to see the slightest, the tiniest shred of explanation or the smallest piece of evidence that this an actual possibility.
If it IS a possibility, then it would be a good question to ask why these Serbs want to get away from Serbs.
Either that or they're just fear mongering to the ignorant who think their smart(their base).
Yes Danilo I think DSS are trying to take a leaf from the HDZ lesson book about motivating their hardcore voters.
Basically trying to motivate people by scaring them. But you are right DSS belong in the dustbin of political history. The corruption which they spearheaded at Kolubara is another nail in the coffin.
Danilo,
if Montenegrins (the truest, tallest, oldest, cleanest) Serbs broke away, then why not the the Vojvodjani? (the richest, more european, blondest etc...) ???
This time and day, 2,000,000 serbs live in ex-yu republics (outside Serbia), the natural thing would be that RS and Montenegro re-unite with Serbia. FBIH (once the ultra islamists step off) and Makedonia (once the ancient alexanders step off) would be good additions as well.
Hungarians in Vojvodina, Croats in Vojvodina, Slovaks in Vojvodina, etc - minorities in vojvodina might like to live in the country of Vojvodina for one reason:
To finally have an identity.
I have a friend who is hungarian serbian, and when he travels he cannot say he's a Serbian because Serbs say he's a Hungarian.
He cannot say he's a hungarian, because Hungarians in Hungary say he's a Serbian...
So what is he?
If Vojvodina became a country, he could finally say proudly I am a Vojvodijan or whatever the country might be called... get what I mean?
OK,than how can 40thousand people ask for Independence in northern Mitro?
I bet you, you haven't thought of that!
(Agim Kelmendi, 4 October 2011 13:45)
Of course they can since they comprise 97% of the population up there and have never had the pleasure of choking on the sweet taste of Kosova's "law and order" :)
One of the first mentions of Slavs was by a guy named Procopius in 545, who describes them as not blond nor dark but ruddy.
As for the rest of your comment you're painfully ignorant of history. Read "The Bridge on the Drina" by Ivo Andric for an explanation of why the Bosniaks managed to stay blonde. And the small bits of Montenegro that were never under Ottoman rule were conquered by the Venetians, also dark, except for Risan and Perast, were you will still find a lot of ruddy looking folk, all related, but that's another story.
"if Montenegrins (the truest, tallest, oldest, cleanest) Serbs broke away, then why not the the Vojvodjani? (the richest, more european, blondest etc...) ???"
Actually Serbs, as an originally Slavic nation, should be blond and blue eyed, the dark skin, hair and eyes of the Montenegrians and majority of Serbs is yet another inheritence from the Turks. Genetic studies carried out after the wars showed that the purest blooded Slavs (therefore Serbs)in the region are...Bosniaks!
I have read "Drina's bridge", AFIIR, Ivo Andric never commented on such silly perceptions.
PS
By the same logic, do you consider dark Bosniaks as Serbs as well?
''Actually Serbs, as an originally Slavic nation, should be blond and blue eyed, the dark skin, hair and eyes of the Montenegrians and majority of Serbs is yet another inheritence from the Turks. Genetic studies carried out after the wars showed that the purest blooded Slavs (therefore Serbs)in the region are...Bosniaks!
(foodforthought, 4 October 2011 12:58) ''
Ancient turks were yellowish like central asians today are, small chinese eyes, etc, the tan skin is a property of autoctone anatolians and greeks, arabs, persians etc...blonde and blue eys are recessive, a person with brune traits may have the blonde and blue genes as well, also, many germans, irish english etc have dark hair dark eys, and they were not under ottomans...anyway, back to montenegrins, they are the most similar people to albanians in balkans, even albanian themselves do not look as much as albanian as montenegrins. Genetically, Albanians are close to greeks and montenegrins, kosovo albanians are also close to bulgarians but that is just my opinion . Germans grouped us all as a dynaric race, long face, dark eys varying to green, ugly noses, dark hair varying to corn color..long legs, rather slim body.
Yet, i find it funny to point genetics as a default for a nation, the genes were formed during a period of 4 million years, the oldest nation, which i think are the chinese, are not more than 10 000 years old...but of course, a serb or an albanian can not have black skin, little little curly hair etc...
@Danilo, I don't think that there is any chance of Vojvodina separating but there is a lot of resentment and anger over the loss of autonomy and the difficulties in regaining some of it. And these paranoid accusations of separatism are downright insulting. There is also the fact that the standard of living is so much lower than places like Hungary or Croatia which were historically on a similar level. Let's face it. Belgrade has mismanaged every single crisis or tension for 25 years and managed to alienate just about everyone. It is going to take a lot of work by the Serbian leadership to win anyone's trust and confidence. When will the majority of Serbs realize and understand this? The more stubborn and belligerent Serbia is the more it loses in the long run.
Sorry to dissapoint all “Vojvodinians” but EU has stated that the breakup of former Yugoslavia has come to an end. The EU doesn't need another Kosovo on their hands. Look at the troubles Kosovo, with a 90 percent albanian majority, has to gain true independence and UN membership. For Vojvodina it's simply impossible, especially since its population is 76 percent serb.
who cares what they say it looks like vojvodina will have a 80% serb population in 2011 and more and more don't like this pajic charactor and vojvodina will not seperate with no back up from all of the population of the province ,thats the end of that. and there is well over 2 million serbs in former yugoslavia . outside of serbia and what will be is RS will join serbia which it has already and later krajina will get a special status also and in montenegro the serbs are going to have a more play since more and more are saying they are serbs.its changing in the former yugoslavi in which it will be better for serbs in the area,and in vojvodina every serb are saying they are serbs and no vojvodin lol
What will happen? The same thing which occured in Germany.
The yugoslav peoples are a mixed lot much like the germans were for hundreds of years right up to 1871.
In the days of Martin Luther and Frederik the great,you were not neccesarily German,you were Bavarian or Prussian or whatever State you came from.Constant foregin imperialism and decentralisation kept these states in a locked mode of inter rival status quo for centuries although slowly but surely a common identity is built.
Today its much the same in the Balkans and in the yugosphere in particular.The idea of being a YUGO is quit young,no more than about a century old.Eventually the Yugoslav people in a new age of internet,fast travel and close proximity will conglamerate.After people will finally be fed up with nationalists and clericalism the process will take full swing.Secularism will be key to that since the only thing that (yeah lets be honest) defines someone as Serb,Croat,bosniak or whatever is religeon.If religeon is taken out of the equation then progress can take place as it did in Germany and Italy,so to shall it take place in Yugoslavia.
Hey nationalists may not like it but thats pretty much the truth and what it going to happen.This hype in Vojvodina is obviously a dss scare tactic,something which the HDZ,SDA or Obraz would try to pull out.The assimilation of the yugosphere may take decades or even centuries,but in the end it will happen.
Hi Vlado, i am this idiot who commented on Vojvodjani being blonder than the rest of Serbs, and unfortunately i have never met your relatives. This idea is not only mine, south serbs/sumadinci are definitely darker than the vojvodjani, but this was just a joke that i used to express the exactly opposite thought of what you naively perceived : it was a joke.
PS.
In all sincerity, Serbian nationalism is the reason why Serbs still exist in Kosovo and Bosnia. Without it, Serbs would today number less than 3 milion ppl, and maybe would soon cease to exist as a nation.
Not that any of this matters too much but who is this idiot claiming that Vojvodjani are the blondest Serbs? My Serb relatives in Backa and Banat (none of them recent settlers from other parts of ex-YU) are all extremely dark-haired and dark-complexioned while most of my Bosnian Serb relatives are blonde and blue-eyed. As for ethnic identity, why not allow people to claim whatever identity they want? And why not stop to think about how the paranoid Serb ultranationalism of the past 25 years has turned more and more people away from the Serbian identity? From Vojvodina to Sandzak to of course Montenegro not to mention many emigres. Unlike many nations in the West, the Serb nation was never quite solidified as an identity and certainly as a territory. Serb nationalists chose to make this identity as exclusionary as possibly and it has been a huge failure.
Danilo,
if Montenegrins (the truest, tallest, oldest, cleanest) Serbs broke away, then why not the the Vojvodjani? (the richest, more european, blondest etc...) ???
This time and day, 2,000,000 serbs live in ex-yu republics (outside Serbia), the natural thing would be that RS and Montenegro re-unite with Serbia. FBIH (once the ultra islamists step off) and Makedonia (once the ancient alexanders step off) would be good additions as well.
Hungarians in Vojvodina, Croats in Vojvodina, Slovaks in Vojvodina, etc - minorities in vojvodina might like to live in the country of Vojvodina for one reason:
To finally have an identity.
I have a friend who is hungarian serbian, and when he travels he cannot say he's a Serbian because Serbs say he's a Hungarian.
He cannot say he's a hungarian, because Hungarians in Hungary say he's a Serbian...
So what is he?
If Vojvodina became a country, he could finally say proudly I am a Vojvodijan or whatever the country might be called... get what I mean?
This is nothing but some kind of impotent revenge fantasy. DSS and their like are completely marginalized (where they belong) and will be further marginalized in the next elections.
They just hate Serbia now and WISH that it's true that Vojvodina would separate because that would make them RIGHT (and "you should have listened to us").
Vojvodina is comprised of 70% Serbs and Hungarians are entitled to an EU passport, so why would they bother with such a thing. I would like to see the slightest, the tiniest shred of explanation or the smallest piece of evidence that this an actual possibility.
If it IS a possibility, then it would be a good question to ask why these Serbs want to get away from Serbs.
Either that or they're just fear mongering to the ignorant who think their smart(their base).
"if Montenegrins (the truest, tallest, oldest, cleanest) Serbs broke away, then why not the the Vojvodjani? (the richest, more european, blondest etc...) ???"
Actually Serbs, as an originally Slavic nation, should be blond and blue eyed, the dark skin, hair and eyes of the Montenegrians and majority of Serbs is yet another inheritence from the Turks. Genetic studies carried out after the wars showed that the purest blooded Slavs (therefore Serbs)in the region are...Bosniaks!
Yes Danilo I think DSS are trying to take a leaf from the HDZ lesson book about motivating their hardcore voters.
Basically trying to motivate people by scaring them. But you are right DSS belong in the dustbin of political history. The corruption which they spearheaded at Kolubara is another nail in the coffin.
OK,than how can 40thousand people ask for Independence in northern Mitro?
I bet you, you haven't thought of that!
(Agim Kelmendi, 4 October 2011 13:45)
Of course they can since they comprise 97% of the population up there and have never had the pleasure of choking on the sweet taste of Kosova's "law and order" :)
I have read "Drina's bridge", AFIIR, Ivo Andric never commented on such silly perceptions.
PS
By the same logic, do you consider dark Bosniaks as Serbs as well?
One of the first mentions of Slavs was by a guy named Procopius in 545, who describes them as not blond nor dark but ruddy.
As for the rest of your comment you're painfully ignorant of history. Read "The Bridge on the Drina" by Ivo Andric for an explanation of why the Bosniaks managed to stay blonde. And the small bits of Montenegro that were never under Ottoman rule were conquered by the Venetians, also dark, except for Risan and Perast, were you will still find a lot of ruddy looking folk, all related, but that's another story.
Sorry to dissapoint all “Vojvodinians” but EU has stated that the breakup of former Yugoslavia has come to an end. The EU doesn't need another Kosovo on their hands. Look at the troubles Kosovo, with a 90 percent albanian majority, has to gain true independence and UN membership. For Vojvodina it's simply impossible, especially since its population is 76 percent serb.
Not that any of this matters too much but who is this idiot claiming that Vojvodjani are the blondest Serbs? My Serb relatives in Backa and Banat (none of them recent settlers from other parts of ex-YU) are all extremely dark-haired and dark-complexioned while most of my Bosnian Serb relatives are blonde and blue-eyed. As for ethnic identity, why not allow people to claim whatever identity they want? And why not stop to think about how the paranoid Serb ultranationalism of the past 25 years has turned more and more people away from the Serbian identity? From Vojvodina to Sandzak to of course Montenegro not to mention many emigres. Unlike many nations in the West, the Serb nation was never quite solidified as an identity and certainly as a territory. Serb nationalists chose to make this identity as exclusionary as possibly and it has been a huge failure.
who cares what they say it looks like vojvodina will have a 80% serb population in 2011 and more and more don't like this pajic charactor and vojvodina will not seperate with no back up from all of the population of the province ,thats the end of that. and there is well over 2 million serbs in former yugoslavia . outside of serbia and what will be is RS will join serbia which it has already and later krajina will get a special status also and in montenegro the serbs are going to have a more play since more and more are saying they are serbs.its changing in the former yugoslavi in which it will be better for serbs in the area,and in vojvodina every serb are saying they are serbs and no vojvodin lol
Hi Vlado, i am this idiot who commented on Vojvodjani being blonder than the rest of Serbs, and unfortunately i have never met your relatives. This idea is not only mine, south serbs/sumadinci are definitely darker than the vojvodjani, but this was just a joke that i used to express the exactly opposite thought of what you naively perceived : it was a joke.
PS.
In all sincerity, Serbian nationalism is the reason why Serbs still exist in Kosovo and Bosnia. Without it, Serbs would today number less than 3 milion ppl, and maybe would soon cease to exist as a nation.
What will happen? The same thing which occured in Germany.
The yugoslav peoples are a mixed lot much like the germans were for hundreds of years right up to 1871.
In the days of Martin Luther and Frederik the great,you were not neccesarily German,you were Bavarian or Prussian or whatever State you came from.Constant foregin imperialism and decentralisation kept these states in a locked mode of inter rival status quo for centuries although slowly but surely a common identity is built.
Today its much the same in the Balkans and in the yugosphere in particular.The idea of being a YUGO is quit young,no more than about a century old.Eventually the Yugoslav people in a new age of internet,fast travel and close proximity will conglamerate.After people will finally be fed up with nationalists and clericalism the process will take full swing.Secularism will be key to that since the only thing that (yeah lets be honest) defines someone as Serb,Croat,bosniak or whatever is religeon.If religeon is taken out of the equation then progress can take place as it did in Germany and Italy,so to shall it take place in Yugoslavia.
Hey nationalists may not like it but thats pretty much the truth and what it going to happen.This hype in Vojvodina is obviously a dss scare tactic,something which the HDZ,SDA or Obraz would try to pull out.The assimilation of the yugosphere may take decades or even centuries,but in the end it will happen.
''Actually Serbs, as an originally Slavic nation, should be blond and blue eyed, the dark skin, hair and eyes of the Montenegrians and majority of Serbs is yet another inheritence from the Turks. Genetic studies carried out after the wars showed that the purest blooded Slavs (therefore Serbs)in the region are...Bosniaks!
(foodforthought, 4 October 2011 12:58) ''
Ancient turks were yellowish like central asians today are, small chinese eyes, etc, the tan skin is a property of autoctone anatolians and greeks, arabs, persians etc...blonde and blue eys are recessive, a person with brune traits may have the blonde and blue genes as well, also, many germans, irish english etc have dark hair dark eys, and they were not under ottomans...anyway, back to montenegrins, they are the most similar people to albanians in balkans, even albanian themselves do not look as much as albanian as montenegrins. Genetically, Albanians are close to greeks and montenegrins, kosovo albanians are also close to bulgarians but that is just my opinion . Germans grouped us all as a dynaric race, long face, dark eys varying to green, ugly noses, dark hair varying to corn color..long legs, rather slim body.
Yet, i find it funny to point genetics as a default for a nation, the genes were formed during a period of 4 million years, the oldest nation, which i think are the chinese, are not more than 10 000 years old...but of course, a serb or an albanian can not have black skin, little little curly hair etc...
@Danilo, I don't think that there is any chance of Vojvodina separating but there is a lot of resentment and anger over the loss of autonomy and the difficulties in regaining some of it. And these paranoid accusations of separatism are downright insulting. There is also the fact that the standard of living is so much lower than places like Hungary or Croatia which were historically on a similar level. Let's face it. Belgrade has mismanaged every single crisis or tension for 25 years and managed to alienate just about everyone. It is going to take a lot of work by the Serbian leadership to win anyone's trust and confidence. When will the majority of Serbs realize and understand this? The more stubborn and belligerent Serbia is the more it loses in the long run.
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