Belgrade Mayor: I would ban Pride Parade

"Today you have a situation that you cannot walk around a formal and official part of Serbia’s territory, in Kosovo and Metohija. Somebody gets killed over there just because they are Serbs and we live with it,” he pointed out..."

While in Belgrade under this mayor, some people are beaten, attacked or harassed by extremists just because they are gay, and the police is not able to protect them. Not much different, isn't it?

Interesting that this "Mayor" brings up the subject of Kosovo - which he as mayor he is not responsible for - in an attempt to draw attention away from the fact that the citizens of the city that he is responsible for cannot exercise their democratic (and "constitutional" rights).

He behaves exactly the same way as Milosevic in 1986 and 1987 - using Kosovo as a way of trying to strengthen himself politically within his own party before trying to grab power.

Transparent and venal, will voters get fooled again=

What a truly terrible place just a few millimetres under the surface.

An organized walk in the part of 500 people endangers lives.

awful.

Mr Comm. Parisson,

what you claim is not possible. All the gays are in Bondsteel, dressed in uniforms and attacking Kosovo Serbs.

Bravo Dilas,

Just a statement of 'common' sense.

Giving some homosexuals a parade is the least important issue to be of national importance.

It's just a parade. Homosexuals are given the same rights elsewhere.. why get so upset that they can't have a parade to parade their 'sexuality'?

He speaks for the majority. Thank God that Serbia does not go head over heels for minorities. Countries that give as much to minorities as they do to majorities lose their cultural identity and integrity.

There are mosques in Serbia so should we start having parades for Muslims. There is a church of Scientology in Belgrade so should we march around for the Scientologists too?

Is it seriously unacceptable to please the majority these days?

Well I'm glad that Serbia is still traditional & maintains the values it was built on.

An organized walk in the part of 500 people endangers lives.
awful. (Danilo, 3 October 2011 10:10)

LOL!!! Are you annoyed for not being able to wear your newly purchased hotpants and parade down the streets of Belgrade?

Oh you should have seen him last night on Utisak Nedelje. Djilas was enjoying himself being the 'reasonable' one between two from the pride organisation and one from Dveri.

In fact as Djilas himself stated one can barely put a cigarette paper between himself and the Dveri position on this issue. At the same time he ureservedly condemned hooliganism.

To finalise he said that you couldn't expect human rights to be on the same level as some EU countries, because of the recent war, kosovo etc.

A carefully designed strategy from a dangerous politician. I mean dangerous in the sense that he calculates his positions carefully and exactly with a view to increasing his support.

His strategists have already told him that as a slightly rogue member of DS in charge of Belgrade he is more likely not to be voted for by more patriotic minded voters who would not vote for DS. This for him is even more perfect considering his ambition to be Prime Minister of Serbia and / or leader of DS in future, where he hopes to carry those supporters with him.

Whether he can overcome the yuck factor is another matter - people tend not to like him, nor is he charismatic. Then again Prime Ministers in Serbia are not directly elected.

!!! & ???

Is it just winter darkness landing in Belgrade -or something more permanent?

Đilas said that he would not allow gay Pride Parade in order to save “people’s lives”. And: "Xenophobia has increased in Serbia after last year’s parade".

This man, who was active in opposing the regime of Slobodan Milošević, participated in actions against Milošević regime, who supported marches and protests though they claimed lives, is now, while being in power, banning marches in order to save lives, and putting the blame of increased xenophobia Serbia on homosexuals!

What is this? Has this man leaped into the Radical Party? What? !!!

Oh, Đilas, what a small man you are. Unbelievable!

And all of you who want something else than arrogant ignorance that's flowing in about the whole question of homosexuality in the Balkans, about the traditional values in Serbia and the tradition of Orthodox church, please look for and read for example the book "Same-Sex Unions in Pre­modern Europe", by John Boswell (Villard Books, New York 1994). Read about "molitva na bratotvorenie", a blessing that church gave to unions of same-sex persons. Read about anthropologists writing about this habit been continued all the way till late 19th century in areas of Greece, Romania, Albania and Serbia.

Civilize yourself and learn about human life and its history. Too many people have so very very narrow understanding of life. And on this understanding they base their supressive attitude of what is "normal".

“idea how to make our society more tolerant …”

Tolerant to what ? Let’s be tolerant to Albanians settled in KM. Let’s be tolerant to NATO bombing anybody they like. Let’s be tolerant to Croats to move Serbs away ect. How long are we going to follow this Western idiotic tolerance and “politically correct” things ? What about traditions and national identity ? What about our Saint Orthodoxy ? Kissing EU’s ass every time is not our way

Me.

bganon, the classic trick is to put (among your favorable) the worse in power. This is the correct way in order to increase public discontent and also further divide the society. This is the main idea behind all those ba(lk)ana democratic republics, after all. All the west has tried to do is make Serbs hate themselves, and examples like you is a sign that they are doing a great job. You remind me of some co-patriots of mine (greeks) who blame the bad politicians, but never bothered to see the real picture, in which we are governed by the west for the last 200+ years.

Correction to my post below Djilas is more likely to be voted for than others in DS (due to Mayor job being seen less closely tied to political party and due to Djilas acting as if he is free to say what he wants within DS).

Hi Lazar.

As is usual for diaspora posters, you're just making stuff up to suit your made-up ideas of what Serbia is.

Djilas didn't support the parade last year.

Hope this helps.

Why did he wholeheartedly support the gay parades in the past?? It's clear, he said he's only against it because there may be some violence... hence he totally supports the idea of the gay parade. Perhaps he himself is gay, or others from his party are.

So what is the Mayor's plan to increase the public visibility of the Gay community in Belgrade? That would be nothing.

The entire point of a Gay Pride parade is to show Gay people in Public and to let people know that Gay people have the same rights as everyone else. If that is the case, then every public manifestation or appearance in any public procession by Serbian Orthodoxers should be banned as well. And people should be banned from congregating wearing Partizan apparrel as well. And if I were Parada Ponosa, I'd demand equal space in any public procession participtated in by those opposed to Gay rights. Is there a Christmas or religious procession in Belgrade? If so, Gays should have equal access to those streets as the Serbian Orthodox Church is opposed to Gay rights (Obradovic claims support from the Serbian Orthodox Church). But we know that wont happen because the entire point of this is to allow those that support/tolerate violent and political repression of Gay rights to speak on the streets, while banning those who support Gay rights those same public venues.

Its not straight people's job to tell a minority how to campaign for their rights. We choose Pride Parades. Public Pride Parades. Because with visibility comes acceptance. There's always a little blowback when we tell the world "we exist and we will be in public", but if the state keeps arresting the violent ones (always the anti-gays doing the violence) eventually freedom wins.

The State and the Mayor of Belgrade is unable or unwilling to do anything about it.

We'll see you guys at the Eurocourt. You may get candidate status for EU accession, but you're not going to go any further than that. I hope that members/supporters/enablers of Dveri, Nasi 1389, and Obraz have seen the world because we'll be demanding travel bans for those members from the EU, the UK, and the USA/Canada. And we will also ask our governments to screen immigrants to the west for extremist links.

There are 2 main reactions i have following this belgrade (moscow?) mayoral pronouncement:

1 -- the lgbt folks in serbia have to really build up a grass roots campaign, similar to those in many other countries. how, exactly, they need to determine, with help from ppl more experienced in these matters. you have to build up understanding, tolerance, support for diversity. of course how you do so in such present circumstances is a total uphill battle, absolutely daunting. it is in many ways like the worst of the 1950s in this country, but in real time.

2-- the blgd regime-- int. minister, mayor etc-- need to be sued, bigtime, in any and all appropriate courts. there needs to be outside pressure, or nothing will improve, exactly like in every other situation. arrest and extradite milosevic (outside pressure); make "peace" with albanian community in south (outside pressure); stop butchering/deporting ethnic albanians from their homes in present day independent kosova (major!! outside pressure); arrest and extradite mladic (also major outside pressure). and so on. you will get nowhere with nicey nice pleas for tolerance and moral clarity, you absolutely have to use pressure.

we need to mount a legal challenge, come up with a strong intl legal team, and move ahead. the time for chitty chat about who is playing which role in which sleazy political party is now over.

again, i extend my sympathy to all those who were ready to march, against all odds, and yes, what would have been certain blood-letting -- not BECAUSE of the pride parade, but because of how the govt, police, media and of course right wing groups colluded and reacted. let's just call it as it is.

democracy is NOT just about having elections, that is such an ignorant, naive and thin understanding.you have to build democratic institutions from the ground up. in places like serbia, the circumstances are never easy, but nevertheless we must persevere.

i am glad there are a few fellow dissidents who are posting these days, and are not intimidated by the usual bad actors, the ever-present intimidation, censorship, etc.

ciao!

roberto frisco

Perhaps he himself is gay, or others from his party are.
(Lazar, 3 October 2011 16:39)

With estimated 3-5% of the population being gay/lesbian in all societies all around the world, it's likely that some people in the DS are gay.

I've always tried to understand the purpose of a gay parade! Why a parade? What do the gays try to show or demonstrate that we do not know? That their sexuality is different? We know. That they are proud to be gay? I doubt! Well, what are the reasons? That they want rights like the majority of non-gay. They do. Then, what exactly do they parade for?

@Anne wrote:
"much less far rightest nationalist"

LMAO Anne, we are talking about the last socialist nation of the balkans right?

So let me get this straight :
When Serbs are left, they are bombed because they are communists.
When Serbs become right (in order to save them from further bombings) then Serbs are bombed because they are far-rightists?

Some people are drowned in their own hypocrisy.

Prrhos, I don't see the logic in your comment!

#1: Sosumi.

#2: Roberto - why not work with Salvadorian members of Mara Salvatrucha in East Los Angeles regarding "marica" tolerance? They are closer and after all, East Los Angeles is in USA. Just start to explain them what is "marica", you'll see what happens.

There is indeed a splinter in Serbian or Russian eye, I agree. Removing it is a noble idea - after you remove that huge oak tree from your eye.

For instance what about these small Swiss children in Colorado and the Serbian children from California - sexual enlightenment, tolerance and wisdom of American authorities?

Well said @ rote.

Who are you 'Tom in Lazybrook' to say that Orthodoxy events should be cancelled.

You should be banned from this website all together

You are insulting every Serbian Orthodox and even the Gay Orthodox people.

Serbia will stay strong true to its culture and identity and not start following America and letting to MEN get married and broadcast this on tv.

Trizo...Serbian values and the image of the serbian people?As an outsider I really wanted see the Serbians´ image and reputation something else that it has been lately.Tolerant, non racists,non violent,much less macho,much less far rightest nationalist...respecting more the moders westernlike values. Why- because the majority of the Serbiab people are like this.Not you...

Giving some homosexuals a parade is the least important issue to be of national importance.
(trizo, 3 October 2011 12:01)

Well, nobody is asking you to give them a right they have like everybody else in Serbia. Who are you to decide who can and who cannot exercise a right ?!



It's just a parade. Homosexuals are given the same rights elsewhere.. why get so upset that they can't have a parade to parade their 'sexuality'?
(trizo, 3 October 2011 12:01)

Why are you so upset if they parade ? Did they force you to parade with them ?!



He speaks for the majority. Thank God that Serbia does not go head over heels for minorities. Countries that give as much to minorities as they do to majorities lose their cultural identity and integrity.
(trizo, 3 October 2011 12:01)

The German majority decided to exterminate 6M jews 60 years ago. It did not mean it was right because the majority said so.



Well I'm glad that Serbia is still traditional & maintains the values it was built on.
(trizo, 3 October 2011 12:01)

Nice values ! That why the other Yugoslav nations did not want to live in the same house with you.

"because the majority of the Serbiab people are like this.Not you..."

Nice thought, but I honestly don't know that that's true.

I've always tried to understand the purpose of a gay parade! Why a parade? What do the gays try to show or demonstrate that we do not know? That their sexuality is different? We know. That they are proud to be gay? I doubt! Well, what are the reasons? That they want rights like the majority of non-gay. They do. Then, what exactly do they parade for?
(LOGIC, 4 October 2011 13:04)


Is that relevant why they parade ? whatever the reason, they have the right to parade, the same way that you, me and everybody else has a right to parade.

Tomorrow, 50 people may decide to go and parade in order to show that they like the fall season :)... Does that makes sense ? For me, no. But it makes sense for them. Who am I to stop them from parading because it does not make sense for me ?! If it does not make sense for me, I am free to not join their parade.

What a truly terrible place just a few millimetres under the surface.

An organized walk in the part of 500 people endangers lives.

awful.

"Today you have a situation that you cannot walk around a formal and official part of Serbia’s territory, in Kosovo and Metohija. Somebody gets killed over there just because they are Serbs and we live with it,” he pointed out..."

While in Belgrade under this mayor, some people are beaten, attacked or harassed by extremists just because they are gay, and the police is not able to protect them. Not much different, isn't it?

Oh you should have seen him last night on Utisak Nedelje. Djilas was enjoying himself being the 'reasonable' one between two from the pride organisation and one from Dveri.

In fact as Djilas himself stated one can barely put a cigarette paper between himself and the Dveri position on this issue. At the same time he ureservedly condemned hooliganism.

To finalise he said that you couldn't expect human rights to be on the same level as some EU countries, because of the recent war, kosovo etc.

A carefully designed strategy from a dangerous politician. I mean dangerous in the sense that he calculates his positions carefully and exactly with a view to increasing his support.

His strategists have already told him that as a slightly rogue member of DS in charge of Belgrade he is more likely not to be voted for by more patriotic minded voters who would not vote for DS. This for him is even more perfect considering his ambition to be Prime Minister of Serbia and / or leader of DS in future, where he hopes to carry those supporters with him.

Whether he can overcome the yuck factor is another matter - people tend not to like him, nor is he charismatic. Then again Prime Ministers in Serbia are not directly elected.

Bravo Dilas,

Just a statement of 'common' sense.

Giving some homosexuals a parade is the least important issue to be of national importance.

It's just a parade. Homosexuals are given the same rights elsewhere.. why get so upset that they can't have a parade to parade their 'sexuality'?

He speaks for the majority. Thank God that Serbia does not go head over heels for minorities. Countries that give as much to minorities as they do to majorities lose their cultural identity and integrity.

There are mosques in Serbia so should we start having parades for Muslims. There is a church of Scientology in Belgrade so should we march around for the Scientologists too?

Is it seriously unacceptable to please the majority these days?

Well I'm glad that Serbia is still traditional & maintains the values it was built on.

An organized walk in the part of 500 people endangers lives.
awful. (Danilo, 3 October 2011 10:10)

LOL!!! Are you annoyed for not being able to wear your newly purchased hotpants and parade down the streets of Belgrade?

Interesting that this "Mayor" brings up the subject of Kosovo - which he as mayor he is not responsible for - in an attempt to draw attention away from the fact that the citizens of the city that he is responsible for cannot exercise their democratic (and "constitutional" rights).

He behaves exactly the same way as Milosevic in 1986 and 1987 - using Kosovo as a way of trying to strengthen himself politically within his own party before trying to grab power.

Transparent and venal, will voters get fooled again=

Mr Comm. Parisson,

what you claim is not possible. All the gays are in Bondsteel, dressed in uniforms and attacking Kosovo Serbs.

There are 2 main reactions i have following this belgrade (moscow?) mayoral pronouncement:

1 -- the lgbt folks in serbia have to really build up a grass roots campaign, similar to those in many other countries. how, exactly, they need to determine, with help from ppl more experienced in these matters. you have to build up understanding, tolerance, support for diversity. of course how you do so in such present circumstances is a total uphill battle, absolutely daunting. it is in many ways like the worst of the 1950s in this country, but in real time.

2-- the blgd regime-- int. minister, mayor etc-- need to be sued, bigtime, in any and all appropriate courts. there needs to be outside pressure, or nothing will improve, exactly like in every other situation. arrest and extradite milosevic (outside pressure); make "peace" with albanian community in south (outside pressure); stop butchering/deporting ethnic albanians from their homes in present day independent kosova (major!! outside pressure); arrest and extradite mladic (also major outside pressure). and so on. you will get nowhere with nicey nice pleas for tolerance and moral clarity, you absolutely have to use pressure.

we need to mount a legal challenge, come up with a strong intl legal team, and move ahead. the time for chitty chat about who is playing which role in which sleazy political party is now over.

again, i extend my sympathy to all those who were ready to march, against all odds, and yes, what would have been certain blood-letting -- not BECAUSE of the pride parade, but because of how the govt, police, media and of course right wing groups colluded and reacted. let's just call it as it is.

democracy is NOT just about having elections, that is such an ignorant, naive and thin understanding.you have to build democratic institutions from the ground up. in places like serbia, the circumstances are never easy, but nevertheless we must persevere.

i am glad there are a few fellow dissidents who are posting these days, and are not intimidated by the usual bad actors, the ever-present intimidation, censorship, etc.

ciao!

roberto frisco

Why did he wholeheartedly support the gay parades in the past?? It's clear, he said he's only against it because there may be some violence... hence he totally supports the idea of the gay parade. Perhaps he himself is gay, or others from his party are.

So what is the Mayor's plan to increase the public visibility of the Gay community in Belgrade? That would be nothing.

The entire point of a Gay Pride parade is to show Gay people in Public and to let people know that Gay people have the same rights as everyone else. If that is the case, then every public manifestation or appearance in any public procession by Serbian Orthodoxers should be banned as well. And people should be banned from congregating wearing Partizan apparrel as well. And if I were Parada Ponosa, I'd demand equal space in any public procession participtated in by those opposed to Gay rights. Is there a Christmas or religious procession in Belgrade? If so, Gays should have equal access to those streets as the Serbian Orthodox Church is opposed to Gay rights (Obradovic claims support from the Serbian Orthodox Church). But we know that wont happen because the entire point of this is to allow those that support/tolerate violent and political repression of Gay rights to speak on the streets, while banning those who support Gay rights those same public venues.

Its not straight people's job to tell a minority how to campaign for their rights. We choose Pride Parades. Public Pride Parades. Because with visibility comes acceptance. There's always a little blowback when we tell the world "we exist and we will be in public", but if the state keeps arresting the violent ones (always the anti-gays doing the violence) eventually freedom wins.

The State and the Mayor of Belgrade is unable or unwilling to do anything about it.

We'll see you guys at the Eurocourt. You may get candidate status for EU accession, but you're not going to go any further than that. I hope that members/supporters/enablers of Dveri, Nasi 1389, and Obraz have seen the world because we'll be demanding travel bans for those members from the EU, the UK, and the USA/Canada. And we will also ask our governments to screen immigrants to the west for extremist links.

Correction to my post below Djilas is more likely to be voted for than others in DS (due to Mayor job being seen less closely tied to political party and due to Djilas acting as if he is free to say what he wants within DS).

bganon, the classic trick is to put (among your favorable) the worse in power. This is the correct way in order to increase public discontent and also further divide the society. This is the main idea behind all those ba(lk)ana democratic republics, after all. All the west has tried to do is make Serbs hate themselves, and examples like you is a sign that they are doing a great job. You remind me of some co-patriots of mine (greeks) who blame the bad politicians, but never bothered to see the real picture, in which we are governed by the west for the last 200+ years.

!!! & ???

Is it just winter darkness landing in Belgrade -or something more permanent?

Đilas said that he would not allow gay Pride Parade in order to save “people’s lives”. And: "Xenophobia has increased in Serbia after last year’s parade".

This man, who was active in opposing the regime of Slobodan Milošević, participated in actions against Milošević regime, who supported marches and protests though they claimed lives, is now, while being in power, banning marches in order to save lives, and putting the blame of increased xenophobia Serbia on homosexuals!

What is this? Has this man leaped into the Radical Party? What? !!!

Oh, Đilas, what a small man you are. Unbelievable!

And all of you who want something else than arrogant ignorance that's flowing in about the whole question of homosexuality in the Balkans, about the traditional values in Serbia and the tradition of Orthodox church, please look for and read for example the book "Same-Sex Unions in Pre­modern Europe", by John Boswell (Villard Books, New York 1994). Read about "molitva na bratotvorenie", a blessing that church gave to unions of same-sex persons. Read about anthropologists writing about this habit been continued all the way till late 19th century in areas of Greece, Romania, Albania and Serbia.

Civilize yourself and learn about human life and its history. Too many people have so very very narrow understanding of life. And on this understanding they base their supressive attitude of what is "normal".

“idea how to make our society more tolerant …”

Tolerant to what ? Let’s be tolerant to Albanians settled in KM. Let’s be tolerant to NATO bombing anybody they like. Let’s be tolerant to Croats to move Serbs away ect. How long are we going to follow this Western idiotic tolerance and “politically correct” things ? What about traditions and national identity ? What about our Saint Orthodoxy ? Kissing EU’s ass every time is not our way

Me.

Hi Lazar.

As is usual for diaspora posters, you're just making stuff up to suit your made-up ideas of what Serbia is.

Djilas didn't support the parade last year.

Hope this helps.

Trizo...Serbian values and the image of the serbian people?As an outsider I really wanted see the Serbians´ image and reputation something else that it has been lately.Tolerant, non racists,non violent,much less macho,much less far rightest nationalist...respecting more the moders westernlike values. Why- because the majority of the Serbiab people are like this.Not you...

Perhaps he himself is gay, or others from his party are.
(Lazar, 3 October 2011 16:39)

With estimated 3-5% of the population being gay/lesbian in all societies all around the world, it's likely that some people in the DS are gay.

Giving some homosexuals a parade is the least important issue to be of national importance.
(trizo, 3 October 2011 12:01)

Well, nobody is asking you to give them a right they have like everybody else in Serbia. Who are you to decide who can and who cannot exercise a right ?!



It's just a parade. Homosexuals are given the same rights elsewhere.. why get so upset that they can't have a parade to parade their 'sexuality'?
(trizo, 3 October 2011 12:01)

Why are you so upset if they parade ? Did they force you to parade with them ?!



He speaks for the majority. Thank God that Serbia does not go head over heels for minorities. Countries that give as much to minorities as they do to majorities lose their cultural identity and integrity.
(trizo, 3 October 2011 12:01)

The German majority decided to exterminate 6M jews 60 years ago. It did not mean it was right because the majority said so.



Well I'm glad that Serbia is still traditional & maintains the values it was built on.
(trizo, 3 October 2011 12:01)

Nice values ! That why the other Yugoslav nations did not want to live in the same house with you.

I've always tried to understand the purpose of a gay parade! Why a parade? What do the gays try to show or demonstrate that we do not know? That their sexuality is different? We know. That they are proud to be gay? I doubt! Well, what are the reasons? That they want rights like the majority of non-gay. They do. Then, what exactly do they parade for?

@Anne wrote:
"much less far rightest nationalist"

LMAO Anne, we are talking about the last socialist nation of the balkans right?

So let me get this straight :
When Serbs are left, they are bombed because they are communists.
When Serbs become right (in order to save them from further bombings) then Serbs are bombed because they are far-rightists?

Some people are drowned in their own hypocrisy.

#1: Sosumi.

#2: Roberto - why not work with Salvadorian members of Mara Salvatrucha in East Los Angeles regarding "marica" tolerance? They are closer and after all, East Los Angeles is in USA. Just start to explain them what is "marica", you'll see what happens.

There is indeed a splinter in Serbian or Russian eye, I agree. Removing it is a noble idea - after you remove that huge oak tree from your eye.

For instance what about these small Swiss children in Colorado and the Serbian children from California - sexual enlightenment, tolerance and wisdom of American authorities?

Well said @ rote.

Who are you 'Tom in Lazybrook' to say that Orthodoxy events should be cancelled.

You should be banned from this website all together

You are insulting every Serbian Orthodox and even the Gay Orthodox people.

Serbia will stay strong true to its culture and identity and not start following America and letting to MEN get married and broadcast this on tv.

"because the majority of the Serbiab people are like this.Not you..."

Nice thought, but I honestly don't know that that's true.

Prrhos, I don't see the logic in your comment!

I've always tried to understand the purpose of a gay parade! Why a parade? What do the gays try to show or demonstrate that we do not know? That their sexuality is different? We know. That they are proud to be gay? I doubt! Well, what are the reasons? That they want rights like the majority of non-gay. They do. Then, what exactly do they parade for?
(LOGIC, 4 October 2011 13:04)


Is that relevant why they parade ? whatever the reason, they have the right to parade, the same way that you, me and everybody else has a right to parade.

Tomorrow, 50 people may decide to go and parade in order to show that they like the fall season :)... Does that makes sense ? For me, no. But it makes sense for them. Who am I to stop them from parading because it does not make sense for me ?! If it does not make sense for me, I am free to not join their parade.