Shooting in Kosovska Mitrovica, barricades remain

Serbs have put it exactly like it is - "If Kosovo is not ours, why are they asking us to give it up? If it is theirs, why are they taking it by force? And if they can take it by force, why they are so circumspect about it?" no albanians or their patrons could give legitimate and just answer to that - because they stole the land.

"Vrbovci stated that there was a reasonable suspicion that the 13 suspects had illegally crossed an administrative crossing, and that therefore they were likely to pay a fine not less than EUR 250 or spend up to three months in prison. She said that the main hearing would be held early next week."

So there was reasonable "suspicion" that they crossed the so called border illegally. But no proof. Yet they are fined/sentenced and detained. Oh yeah. The Albanians do have proof that they are Serbian so that's a good enough reason for them.

To the internet warriors who are going to post that the situation is deteriorating, two things:

1st: congratulations on spelling the word deteriorating correctly
2nd: that's not the case at all, the situation has been like this since '99





Thanks,

This is horrible. The fight broke out between ordinary K-Serbs and thugs that have placed the barricades. I urge every law abiding citizen(K-Serbs) to rise up against these thugs.

Serbs have put it exactly like it is - "If Kosovo is not ours, why are they asking us to give it up? If it is theirs, why are they taking it by force? And if they can take it by force, why they are so circumspect about it?" no albanians or their patrons could give legitimate and just answer to that - because they stole the land.
(finnish, 24 September 2011 14:20)

Nobody is asking Serbia to physically give up part or all of Kosovo because does not possess Kosovo anymore. The international community, Pristina including, is asking for belgrade to recognize the sovereignty of Kosovo.

Your other premise is, why use violence. If all peaceful means to subdue organized crime are exhausted then the proper authorities (KP and KFOR) must exercise the right to bring rule of law.

Now your last claim that "they stole the land" is purely perspective. You say "stole" I state "liberated". You say "terrorists", I say "freedom fighters". You call them "politicians" or "representatives", I call them "clowns". This last premise is based on perspective and is not a tenant of above fact.





Thanks,

@Steve - Maybe in Serbia they convict people of crimes BEFORE they go to court. However, Kosova is democratic with legitimite legal institutions. Therefore, one cannot be convicted of a crime until they have been in court in front of a judge. These men were detained for a suspected crime and they are being held until they go to court early next week just like the article stated. The men will have the ability to defend themselves and provide any evidence they may have thats showing their innocence and the prosocutors will have evidence to show that they entered illegally. Whichever side has stronger evidence shall prevail. Thats how the legal system works in most civilized countries and Kosova is no exception. I will find it interesting to see what kinds of papers the men will be able to provide since they are from Serbia and not Kosova. If they entered legally into Kosova there will be documentation at the broder crossing that Eulex and the Albanian's are at. If they entered thru a back country road with no border/customs police at the crossing then they will have no papers and thats called "entering a country illegally".

Steve B. Just like every civilized country the burdeon of proof is on the state. When you commit a crime you are innocent untill proven guilty. Which means police can hold you on suspicion. What that Mensa is that the prosecution has enough proof to think they will get an inditement. So please quit that stuff aboutbeing Serbian. If they entered illegally they should be subjected o laws of said country In this case Kosova.

So there was reasonable "suspicion" that they crossed the so called border illegally. But no proof. Yet they are fined/sentenced and detained. Oh yeah. The Albanians do have proof that they are Serbian so that's a good enough reason for them.
(Steve B., 24 September 2011 15:48)

Steve B,

No one has been fined or sentenced yet, that is why a hearing is being held so as to determine if there is sufficient proof. The suspects are being detained, since there is a high risk they will flee, till the court appearance. That's the the way things work in a Democracy.

Serbs have put it exactly like it is - "If Kosovo is not ours, why are they asking us to give it up? If it is theirs, why are they taking it by force? And if they can take it by force, why they are so circumspect about it?" no albanians or their patrons could give legitimate and just answer to that - because they stole the land.
(finnish, 24 September 2011 14:20)
Everyone can play that game. If Kosovo is Serbia, then why is Jeremic spending every other week complaining to the EU, UN, whoever will listen, that actions in Kosovo are violations of international law, would they not be violations of Serbian law????
The answer to your question is pure and simple, because Serbia is saying the opposite.
You have a $100 dollar bill and I claim it is mine. You do nothing because since it is yours you say I do not have to defend that, there is a huge probability that the court will give the money to me because you did not defend your claim. So your post is totally irrational.

"So there was reasonable "suspicion" that they crossed the so called border illegally. But no proof. Yet they are fined/sentenced and detained. Oh yeah. The Albanians do have proof that they are Serbian so that's a good enough reason for them."

Might want to read about the difference between arrest and conviction. Their guilt will be determined at trial

You say "terrorists", I say "freedom fighters". You call them "politicians" or "representatives", I call them "clowns". This last premise is based on perspective and is not a tenant of above fact.
(KOSO, 24 September 2011 17:38)

You call them 'politicians', I call them 'mafia clan leaders'. You call them 'representives', I call them 'election manipulators'. You call Thaci the 'George Washington of Kosovo', I call him the 'Al Capone of Kosovo' :)

Fact 1: The EU cannot itself recognise a state, only individual members can. Fact 2: The UN has not accepted the declaration of independence and does not see Kosovo as a separate "state". Fact 3: The UN uses dotted lines to indicate the boundary of Kosovo, which means it is NOT considered an international boundary.

@ Think about it...you can have violations of international law and domestic law simultaneously

And yes I know what I am talking about because I work in international policy which includes UN agencies. Also I am not Serbian or Albanian so no bias just facts!

You have a $100 dollar bill and I claim it is mine. You do nothing because since it is yours you say I do not have to defend that, there is a huge probability that the court will give the money to me because you did not defend your claim. So your post is totally irrational.
(Think about it., 24 September 2011 21:33)
great analogy Think about it,

if I was to replace the 100 dollar bill in your comment and place for example the term Kosovo, it would sound something like this;

You have Kosovo and I claim it is mine. You do nothing because since it is yours you say I do not have to defend that, there is a huge probability that the court will give Kosovo to me because you did not defend your claim. So your post is totally irrational.

This is most likely exactly what happened, nothing to do with right or wrong, justice or injustice, simply the Serb reliance on such was misguided in this day and age of litigation and lies.

I guess what you are saying is that Serbs need to be more aggressive in their defence of what is theirs and claimed by others, is that right?

Thanks for that wonderful analogy, couldn't have done better myself

Serbs have put it exactly like it is - "If Kosovo is not ours, why are they asking us to give it up? If it is theirs, why are they taking it by force? And if they can take it by force, why they are so circumspect about it?" no albanians or their patrons could give legitimate and just answer to that - because they stole the land.

"Vrbovci stated that there was a reasonable suspicion that the 13 suspects had illegally crossed an administrative crossing, and that therefore they were likely to pay a fine not less than EUR 250 or spend up to three months in prison. She said that the main hearing would be held early next week."

So there was reasonable "suspicion" that they crossed the so called border illegally. But no proof. Yet they are fined/sentenced and detained. Oh yeah. The Albanians do have proof that they are Serbian so that's a good enough reason for them.

To the internet warriors who are going to post that the situation is deteriorating, two things:

1st: congratulations on spelling the word deteriorating correctly
2nd: that's not the case at all, the situation has been like this since '99





Thanks,

Serbs have put it exactly like it is - "If Kosovo is not ours, why are they asking us to give it up? If it is theirs, why are they taking it by force? And if they can take it by force, why they are so circumspect about it?" no albanians or their patrons could give legitimate and just answer to that - because they stole the land.
(finnish, 24 September 2011 14:20)

Nobody is asking Serbia to physically give up part or all of Kosovo because does not possess Kosovo anymore. The international community, Pristina including, is asking for belgrade to recognize the sovereignty of Kosovo.

Your other premise is, why use violence. If all peaceful means to subdue organized crime are exhausted then the proper authorities (KP and KFOR) must exercise the right to bring rule of law.

Now your last claim that "they stole the land" is purely perspective. You say "stole" I state "liberated". You say "terrorists", I say "freedom fighters". You call them "politicians" or "representatives", I call them "clowns". This last premise is based on perspective and is not a tenant of above fact.





Thanks,

This is horrible. The fight broke out between ordinary K-Serbs and thugs that have placed the barricades. I urge every law abiding citizen(K-Serbs) to rise up against these thugs.

"So there was reasonable "suspicion" that they crossed the so called border illegally. But no proof. Yet they are fined/sentenced and detained. Oh yeah. The Albanians do have proof that they are Serbian so that's a good enough reason for them."

Might want to read about the difference between arrest and conviction. Their guilt will be determined at trial

Serbs have put it exactly like it is - "If Kosovo is not ours, why are they asking us to give it up? If it is theirs, why are they taking it by force? And if they can take it by force, why they are so circumspect about it?" no albanians or their patrons could give legitimate and just answer to that - because they stole the land.
(finnish, 24 September 2011 14:20)
Everyone can play that game. If Kosovo is Serbia, then why is Jeremic spending every other week complaining to the EU, UN, whoever will listen, that actions in Kosovo are violations of international law, would they not be violations of Serbian law????
The answer to your question is pure and simple, because Serbia is saying the opposite.
You have a $100 dollar bill and I claim it is mine. You do nothing because since it is yours you say I do not have to defend that, there is a huge probability that the court will give the money to me because you did not defend your claim. So your post is totally irrational.

@Steve - Maybe in Serbia they convict people of crimes BEFORE they go to court. However, Kosova is democratic with legitimite legal institutions. Therefore, one cannot be convicted of a crime until they have been in court in front of a judge. These men were detained for a suspected crime and they are being held until they go to court early next week just like the article stated. The men will have the ability to defend themselves and provide any evidence they may have thats showing their innocence and the prosocutors will have evidence to show that they entered illegally. Whichever side has stronger evidence shall prevail. Thats how the legal system works in most civilized countries and Kosova is no exception. I will find it interesting to see what kinds of papers the men will be able to provide since they are from Serbia and not Kosova. If they entered legally into Kosova there will be documentation at the broder crossing that Eulex and the Albanian's are at. If they entered thru a back country road with no border/customs police at the crossing then they will have no papers and thats called "entering a country illegally".

Steve B. Just like every civilized country the burdeon of proof is on the state. When you commit a crime you are innocent untill proven guilty. Which means police can hold you on suspicion. What that Mensa is that the prosecution has enough proof to think they will get an inditement. So please quit that stuff aboutbeing Serbian. If they entered illegally they should be subjected o laws of said country In this case Kosova.

You say "terrorists", I say "freedom fighters". You call them "politicians" or "representatives", I call them "clowns". This last premise is based on perspective and is not a tenant of above fact.
(KOSO, 24 September 2011 17:38)

You call them 'politicians', I call them 'mafia clan leaders'. You call them 'representives', I call them 'election manipulators'. You call Thaci the 'George Washington of Kosovo', I call him the 'Al Capone of Kosovo' :)

So there was reasonable "suspicion" that they crossed the so called border illegally. But no proof. Yet they are fined/sentenced and detained. Oh yeah. The Albanians do have proof that they are Serbian so that's a good enough reason for them.
(Steve B., 24 September 2011 15:48)

Steve B,

No one has been fined or sentenced yet, that is why a hearing is being held so as to determine if there is sufficient proof. The suspects are being detained, since there is a high risk they will flee, till the court appearance. That's the the way things work in a Democracy.

Fact 1: The EU cannot itself recognise a state, only individual members can. Fact 2: The UN has not accepted the declaration of independence and does not see Kosovo as a separate "state". Fact 3: The UN uses dotted lines to indicate the boundary of Kosovo, which means it is NOT considered an international boundary.

@ Think about it...you can have violations of international law and domestic law simultaneously

And yes I know what I am talking about because I work in international policy which includes UN agencies. Also I am not Serbian or Albanian so no bias just facts!

You have a $100 dollar bill and I claim it is mine. You do nothing because since it is yours you say I do not have to defend that, there is a huge probability that the court will give the money to me because you did not defend your claim. So your post is totally irrational.
(Think about it., 24 September 2011 21:33)
great analogy Think about it,

if I was to replace the 100 dollar bill in your comment and place for example the term Kosovo, it would sound something like this;

You have Kosovo and I claim it is mine. You do nothing because since it is yours you say I do not have to defend that, there is a huge probability that the court will give Kosovo to me because you did not defend your claim. So your post is totally irrational.

This is most likely exactly what happened, nothing to do with right or wrong, justice or injustice, simply the Serb reliance on such was misguided in this day and age of litigation and lies.

I guess what you are saying is that Serbs need to be more aggressive in their defence of what is theirs and claimed by others, is that right?

Thanks for that wonderful analogy, couldn't have done better myself