DS deputy leader: SNS spreads lies

I agree with Jelena Trivan. Serbian politicians are liars.
(ivan, 20 August 2011 16:58)

now we know whose been messing with the ratings

I agree with Jelena Trivan. Serbian politicians are liars.

Oh, except their are many ways to calculate such things. So Mrs. Trivan can statistically prove herself to be telling the truth, as can Mr. Vucic.

Statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics.

For example one of them may take into account inflation or currency, while the other one will not take them int account.

Personally I believe both are liars.

Well, I could see that Vucic might have overstated some figures. However, what this DS official won't dare say is that there is a lot of truth to what Vucic says. A lot. It's simply a slap in the face of the corrupt DS. The sooner DS leaves, the better.

"But if you pay attention - every good intent can be twisted around, see Bloody Mary (an other "new" Albotroll or Tiranasaurus or whatever)."

In this case: whatever is the correct one
P.S.: If you were so full of "good intent", why didn't you mess around with your own comments?
P.P.S.: Any suggestions where one can sign in to become "a paid poster"?

Yes you are right Yaroslav. In fact and I find both of them equally odious, Vucic mainly because of his extremist past and Trivan because of how irritating she is and how prepared she is to say anything she believes will curry favour among DS core voters.

I only pray that she isn't the future of DS. A quick google check on her 'better half' would be enough to persuade anybody what kind of bezbednjak we are talking about.

Yaroslav,

Show me a politician that doesn't lie or manipulate stats. It's a necessary part of the job. No one gets to high office without spewing B.S.

It's more a question of choosing the lesser of two evils. For instance, in the US, we have a choice between Democrats and Republicans. Both are seriously deficient in just about every imaginable sense, but funny how I never see the Democrats being led by obvious idiots such as those featured on the Republican bill (Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, Mitch McConnell -- and of course, the wonderful George W. Bush in years past).

In America, Democrats are (relatively speaking) the party of facts: they believe the science on global warming; they consult respected economists for advice on how to handle the debt ceiling, financial meltdowns and high unemployment; they try to address issues ailing society, such as increasingly unaffordable health care (driven by a for-profit insurance industry that denies coverage wherever possible, in part with help from the politicians' votes they purchase in DC) and the ever-widening gap between rich and poor.

Republicans, meanwhile, consult God for the answers (Bush claimed to talk to God directly, Perry literally prayed for rain to end the drought in Texas this summer, and Bachmann has openly stated that she will pray for guidance on how to handle a variety of issues if elected President next year) and deny that things like global warming or cutting taxes on the rich and corporations (poor people pay higer rates in many cases) are in any way problematic.

And while Democrats often fail to deliverable viable solutions, at least they try. And it doesn't help that another fact that Republicans appear to have lost sight of is the need for compromise in government.

Parties in Serbia like SRS and SNS (SRS spinoff) are, in my view, led by the same comical personality types (Seselj, Nikolic, Vucic) as those we see in the Republican party, and if the Bush era in America would offer any clues...

Ataman actually I wouldn't ban either of them, unless they broke rules persistently - although anybody determined can keep posting.

What I don't like is sock puppet type activities of those such as wtf posting under multiple identities, as well as using multiple votes. Even worse he continues doing it, people like that obviously think people are stupid enough to be influenced that way.

For those consistent offenders ip addresses should be banned - for insulting our intelligence above all.

And did you notice Ataman the relationship between the trolls and political perspective? It always seems to be more extreme right wingers who do it. I even read about a guy employed by a company set up by the Republican Party who received payment to troll on the internet.

Lazar,

You misunderstood, but perhaps I am partly to blame for not having been more clear. My comment was about the basic mentality of politicians like Vucic. No matter what the political stripes he is wearing, he is never to be trusted based on what he openly stood for earlier in his career.

You are correct, I am from the US and much better versed in American politics than Serbian politics. However, psycho statesmen are psycho statesmen no matter where one stands in the world, and I see little difference in the mental illness plaguing Vojislav Seselj (political mentor to Vucic) and Rick Perry, a presidential hopeful who unabashedly tells voters that one can end draught through prayer. Never mind that lots of Americans might actually agree, but what about all those who wouldn't?

ZZ,

If you'd honestly be at odds with 95% (or more) of the world's climate scientists on the issue of global warming, then I honestly don't know what to say to you. BTW, are you the poster formerly known as Zoran?

So, Mr Nenad believes that God and prayer are just silly things? Should we have the CP back, they also knew better. The presidents photo ops at christmas and easter are just for show? And btw, global warming is being debunked all over the globe for the scam that it was. Since humans are carbon based, a tax on carbon is a tax on life! Thanks Democrats.

"The republican party in Serbia would probably be LDP, because they support free market and more deregulation... it's the libertarian creed that even the DS shares. "
(Lazar, 20 August 2011 23:40)

Now you make the same mistake, too, comparing parties from different countries. The Republicans are the nationalistic-religius-conservative party, with its followers mostly located in more rural areas, and not in big cities. I see more similarities to the DSS in Serbia.
Liberals are different: They support free market, advocate less state, care for people's rights and human rights, too, are generally more international and don't have a national-conservative or religious background

Largely correct, bganon - except that IP address thing can be faked, too.
Good moderation is the mother of all forums. With ratings - there a simple tie to IP should largely work, I had impression B92 is doing it - but apparently they do not.

But if you pay attention - every good intent can be twisted around, see Bloody Mary (an other "new" Albotroll or Tiranasaurus or whatever).

My other observation is - where you are involved - that the biggest conflicts are between similar ones. Interestingly, we do not see Albanian-Albanian conflict here on B92 (that supports the suspect, quite a few Albanians are just paid posters).

Just to mention unpaid posters of similar or close background:

a) you - versus - wtf
b) Joe - versus - me
c) Roberto - versus - me

None of them has anything to do with Serbs or Albanians. Interesting to note, the animosity with Joe simply started when I objected Orbán and his politics (Joe started the aggression). Animosity with Roberto is somewhat different - there I exploded at one point simply because of (lack of) communication and blatant narcism. I probably should let that guy alone, but unfortunately the point where he starts from is pretty close to mine - the rest is not and every time I read his writings I just freak out. We exchanged few friendly e-mails before but these were pretty much a one-way street: he just can't listen to others, his own person is above all. The e-mails were a total communication failure.

In America, Democrats are (relatively speaking) the party of facts: they believe the science on global warming; they consult respected economists for advice on how to handle the debt ceiling, financial meltdowns and high unemployment; they try to address issues ailing society, such as increasingly unaffordable health care (driven by a for-profit insurance industry that denies coverage wherever possible, in part with help from the politicians' votes they purchase in DC) and the ever-widening gap between rich and poor.

(Nenad, 20 August 2011 17:24

Nancy Pelosi thinks paying people not to work has a net benefit compared to people who actually produce a value added product. And of course she's right but, unfortunately for us the only benefit is for her party in the form of buying votes.

As for your 'respected economist' comment, you do know that Nobel prize winner and poster boy of liberal economists everywhere recently opined about the need for a galactic sized crisis in the form of an invasion from outer space to stir the populace to action preparing for a war of the worlds in order to get the economy going. He then further confirmed his insanity by claiming the government should pay the masses to dig ditches only to fill them back in because it really doesn't matter whether or not the work was productive or even destructive, only that money was put into motion.

And at last, but not least, compromise with this mindset is what has gotten us where we are.

MPAI!

Nenad, I must ask are you a joke? Or a big joke? How you attempt to praise them is outright wrong. They do not try to help reduce the ills of society. If anything they only exacerbate them even more. They widen the wealth gap, not reduce it. They have no plan whatsoever on reducing the COST of healthcare. Say all you want, but it's simply stupid to address healthcare coverage while costs are insanely high. Meanwhile, you ridicule the republicans - who like idiots do not want universal healthcare- but their way to address the problem is to reduce costs. This is not consulting with god. They're not all crazy wacked idiots. The tea party members are... the same scum used to call former republican presidents communists. But, what is even worse is that you dare try to equate SNS with the Republican party. Why don't you bother looking into what the SNS (and other opposition parties) are saying. Why don't you bother looking into their arguements and realize that you'd have an easier case portraying them like Canada's NDP. You are probably from the US and as a result have a more narrow mind-frame when it comes to politics. Countries tend to have more than two parties... so why don't you start learning up on multiparty systems, especially Serbia's. Start with your neighbor up north, Canada. Then when you look at European countries you'll see that there is no equivalent of the Republican party here - well, there is but they're small fringe elements. The republican party in Serbia would probably be LDP, because they support free market and more deregulation... it's the libertarian creed that even the DS shares. But here, I have a short video for you, it will perhaps open your eyes as to why the libertarian creed that pro-West parties support is bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saWCZVggQAs

now we know whose been messing with the ratings
(New Zealander, 20 August 2011 23:02)

Totally flawed system. ROFL. I did, by the way, not Ivan.
Till now - except that cathedral case with Joe, the Nazi - never really paid attention to that system, but always wondered, what the heck. With the cathedral case I suspected, something is fishy because that worm clearly lost the debate - but got a gazillion positives. I never tried to cheat that system... till now. Well, you see the result. :(

Wasn't a tough thing for me - because as exception - I agree with Ivan on what he said. With addition that the same can be said about every political system.

OK, have fun, today was the August 20 and we missed the fireworks so I compensated the loss ;-)

LOL - hope B92 will fix that issue, otherwise people really will feel bad... (if that's the goal). Regardless, Albanians or Serbs the posters do not deserve to feel, they are gang-teamed against and intimidated.

On the other side certain posts B92 should not allow at all, by far the biggest offenders being J. and R. - neither of them is Serb or Albanian or Croat, not a big loss.

So anyway, Gjon or Ivan is innocent of that mischief. It was mine.

Yaroslav,

Show me a politician that doesn't lie or manipulate stats. It's a necessary part of the job. No one gets to high office without spewing B.S.

It's more a question of choosing the lesser of two evils. For instance, in the US, we have a choice between Democrats and Republicans. Both are seriously deficient in just about every imaginable sense, but funny how I never see the Democrats being led by obvious idiots such as those featured on the Republican bill (Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, Mitch McConnell -- and of course, the wonderful George W. Bush in years past).

In America, Democrats are (relatively speaking) the party of facts: they believe the science on global warming; they consult respected economists for advice on how to handle the debt ceiling, financial meltdowns and high unemployment; they try to address issues ailing society, such as increasingly unaffordable health care (driven by a for-profit insurance industry that denies coverage wherever possible, in part with help from the politicians' votes they purchase in DC) and the ever-widening gap between rich and poor.

Republicans, meanwhile, consult God for the answers (Bush claimed to talk to God directly, Perry literally prayed for rain to end the drought in Texas this summer, and Bachmann has openly stated that she will pray for guidance on how to handle a variety of issues if elected President next year) and deny that things like global warming or cutting taxes on the rich and corporations (poor people pay higer rates in many cases) are in any way problematic.

And while Democrats often fail to deliverable viable solutions, at least they try. And it doesn't help that another fact that Republicans appear to have lost sight of is the need for compromise in government.

Parties in Serbia like SRS and SNS (SRS spinoff) are, in my view, led by the same comical personality types (Seselj, Nikolic, Vucic) as those we see in the Republican party, and if the Bush era in America would offer any clues...

I agree with Jelena Trivan. Serbian politicians are liars.

I agree with Jelena Trivan. Serbian politicians are liars.
(ivan, 20 August 2011 16:58)

now we know whose been messing with the ratings

now we know whose been messing with the ratings
(New Zealander, 20 August 2011 23:02)

Totally flawed system. ROFL. I did, by the way, not Ivan.
Till now - except that cathedral case with Joe, the Nazi - never really paid attention to that system, but always wondered, what the heck. With the cathedral case I suspected, something is fishy because that worm clearly lost the debate - but got a gazillion positives. I never tried to cheat that system... till now. Well, you see the result. :(

Wasn't a tough thing for me - because as exception - I agree with Ivan on what he said. With addition that the same can be said about every political system.

OK, have fun, today was the August 20 and we missed the fireworks so I compensated the loss ;-)

LOL - hope B92 will fix that issue, otherwise people really will feel bad... (if that's the goal). Regardless, Albanians or Serbs the posters do not deserve to feel, they are gang-teamed against and intimidated.

On the other side certain posts B92 should not allow at all, by far the biggest offenders being J. and R. - neither of them is Serb or Albanian or Croat, not a big loss.

So anyway, Gjon or Ivan is innocent of that mischief. It was mine.

Largely correct, bganon - except that IP address thing can be faked, too.
Good moderation is the mother of all forums. With ratings - there a simple tie to IP should largely work, I had impression B92 is doing it - but apparently they do not.

But if you pay attention - every good intent can be twisted around, see Bloody Mary (an other "new" Albotroll or Tiranasaurus or whatever).

My other observation is - where you are involved - that the biggest conflicts are between similar ones. Interestingly, we do not see Albanian-Albanian conflict here on B92 (that supports the suspect, quite a few Albanians are just paid posters).

Just to mention unpaid posters of similar or close background:

a) you - versus - wtf
b) Joe - versus - me
c) Roberto - versus - me

None of them has anything to do with Serbs or Albanians. Interesting to note, the animosity with Joe simply started when I objected Orbán and his politics (Joe started the aggression). Animosity with Roberto is somewhat different - there I exploded at one point simply because of (lack of) communication and blatant narcism. I probably should let that guy alone, but unfortunately the point where he starts from is pretty close to mine - the rest is not and every time I read his writings I just freak out. We exchanged few friendly e-mails before but these were pretty much a one-way street: he just can't listen to others, his own person is above all. The e-mails were a total communication failure.

Oh, except their are many ways to calculate such things. So Mrs. Trivan can statistically prove herself to be telling the truth, as can Mr. Vucic.

Statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics.

For example one of them may take into account inflation or currency, while the other one will not take them int account.

Personally I believe both are liars.

Well, I could see that Vucic might have overstated some figures. However, what this DS official won't dare say is that there is a lot of truth to what Vucic says. A lot. It's simply a slap in the face of the corrupt DS. The sooner DS leaves, the better.

Ataman actually I wouldn't ban either of them, unless they broke rules persistently - although anybody determined can keep posting.

What I don't like is sock puppet type activities of those such as wtf posting under multiple identities, as well as using multiple votes. Even worse he continues doing it, people like that obviously think people are stupid enough to be influenced that way.

For those consistent offenders ip addresses should be banned - for insulting our intelligence above all.

And did you notice Ataman the relationship between the trolls and political perspective? It always seems to be more extreme right wingers who do it. I even read about a guy employed by a company set up by the Republican Party who received payment to troll on the internet.

Nenad, I must ask are you a joke? Or a big joke? How you attempt to praise them is outright wrong. They do not try to help reduce the ills of society. If anything they only exacerbate them even more. They widen the wealth gap, not reduce it. They have no plan whatsoever on reducing the COST of healthcare. Say all you want, but it's simply stupid to address healthcare coverage while costs are insanely high. Meanwhile, you ridicule the republicans - who like idiots do not want universal healthcare- but their way to address the problem is to reduce costs. This is not consulting with god. They're not all crazy wacked idiots. The tea party members are... the same scum used to call former republican presidents communists. But, what is even worse is that you dare try to equate SNS with the Republican party. Why don't you bother looking into what the SNS (and other opposition parties) are saying. Why don't you bother looking into their arguements and realize that you'd have an easier case portraying them like Canada's NDP. You are probably from the US and as a result have a more narrow mind-frame when it comes to politics. Countries tend to have more than two parties... so why don't you start learning up on multiparty systems, especially Serbia's. Start with your neighbor up north, Canada. Then when you look at European countries you'll see that there is no equivalent of the Republican party here - well, there is but they're small fringe elements. The republican party in Serbia would probably be LDP, because they support free market and more deregulation... it's the libertarian creed that even the DS shares. But here, I have a short video for you, it will perhaps open your eyes as to why the libertarian creed that pro-West parties support is bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saWCZVggQAs

So, Mr Nenad believes that God and prayer are just silly things? Should we have the CP back, they also knew better. The presidents photo ops at christmas and easter are just for show? And btw, global warming is being debunked all over the globe for the scam that it was. Since humans are carbon based, a tax on carbon is a tax on life! Thanks Democrats.

Yes you are right Yaroslav. In fact and I find both of them equally odious, Vucic mainly because of his extremist past and Trivan because of how irritating she is and how prepared she is to say anything she believes will curry favour among DS core voters.

I only pray that she isn't the future of DS. A quick google check on her 'better half' would be enough to persuade anybody what kind of bezbednjak we are talking about.

In America, Democrats are (relatively speaking) the party of facts: they believe the science on global warming; they consult respected economists for advice on how to handle the debt ceiling, financial meltdowns and high unemployment; they try to address issues ailing society, such as increasingly unaffordable health care (driven by a for-profit insurance industry that denies coverage wherever possible, in part with help from the politicians' votes they purchase in DC) and the ever-widening gap between rich and poor.

(Nenad, 20 August 2011 17:24

Nancy Pelosi thinks paying people not to work has a net benefit compared to people who actually produce a value added product. And of course she's right but, unfortunately for us the only benefit is for her party in the form of buying votes.

As for your 'respected economist' comment, you do know that Nobel prize winner and poster boy of liberal economists everywhere recently opined about the need for a galactic sized crisis in the form of an invasion from outer space to stir the populace to action preparing for a war of the worlds in order to get the economy going. He then further confirmed his insanity by claiming the government should pay the masses to dig ditches only to fill them back in because it really doesn't matter whether or not the work was productive or even destructive, only that money was put into motion.

And at last, but not least, compromise with this mindset is what has gotten us where we are.

MPAI!

"The republican party in Serbia would probably be LDP, because they support free market and more deregulation... it's the libertarian creed that even the DS shares. "
(Lazar, 20 August 2011 23:40)

Now you make the same mistake, too, comparing parties from different countries. The Republicans are the nationalistic-religius-conservative party, with its followers mostly located in more rural areas, and not in big cities. I see more similarities to the DSS in Serbia.
Liberals are different: They support free market, advocate less state, care for people's rights and human rights, too, are generally more international and don't have a national-conservative or religious background

"But if you pay attention - every good intent can be twisted around, see Bloody Mary (an other "new" Albotroll or Tiranasaurus or whatever)."

In this case: whatever is the correct one
P.S.: If you were so full of "good intent", why didn't you mess around with your own comments?
P.P.S.: Any suggestions where one can sign in to become "a paid poster"?

Lazar,

You misunderstood, but perhaps I am partly to blame for not having been more clear. My comment was about the basic mentality of politicians like Vucic. No matter what the political stripes he is wearing, he is never to be trusted based on what he openly stood for earlier in his career.

You are correct, I am from the US and much better versed in American politics than Serbian politics. However, psycho statesmen are psycho statesmen no matter where one stands in the world, and I see little difference in the mental illness plaguing Vojislav Seselj (political mentor to Vucic) and Rick Perry, a presidential hopeful who unabashedly tells voters that one can end draught through prayer. Never mind that lots of Americans might actually agree, but what about all those who wouldn't?

ZZ,

If you'd honestly be at odds with 95% (or more) of the world's climate scientists on the issue of global warming, then I honestly don't know what to say to you. BTW, are you the poster formerly known as Zoran?