Montenegro: Language to be discussed in September

A funny discussion, considering the fact that the Serbian and the Montenegrin language are almost identical. Anywhere else, one would rather speak of dialects.

As a matter of fact, the differences between the Portuguese in Portugal and the Portuguese in Brazil are a lot bigger.

They are so funny these guys! The serbo- croatian language has a rich culture so now they want to be culturaly poor.The Montenegro authors or singers will only be selling their books and songs in their country. They quickly will be begging to survive or dissappear. All artists should unite and stand up against their silly governments.

"Language to be discussed in September." Which language will they hold this interesting discussion in? Is it likely to be a big earner for interpreters?

‘…the Serbian and the Montenegrin language are almost identical…’

Mike, this is also true for Croatian and Bosnian. In fact, a more accurate division of the Serbo-Croatian language would be between the Ekavian and Ijekavian dialects (with some speaking Ikavian, Kajkavian, etc, in parts of Croatia).

These are, as you say, merely dialects, and almost as many Serbs grew up using the Ijekavian dialect of Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro as the Ekavian used in Serbia itself. And when Ijekavian speaking refugees moved to Serbia during and after the 1991-9 war (not all of them Serbs, by the way) they did not need to learn the Ekavian dialect in order to study or work. This applies also to the many Montenegrins who still flood Serbia, among them some of Serbia’s past and present leaders.

Another analogy to add to your Portuguese one would be the differences between American, Canadian, Australian and British English. They can be far more diverse than the different dialects of Serbo-Croatian, yet they are all referred to as English and we always understand each other perfectly well at every level of verbal complexity, formal or informal.

Or, to take another example, the Dutch in the Netherlands and the Flemish of Belgium share a common language but give them different names. Nevertheless, they readily admit that they speak the same language and do not, as far as I know, claim otherwise for political purposes.

What we are really seeing here, as well as in other parts of the world, is psychopathy at work on a scale never seen before. The late Polish psychologist, Andrei £obaczewski, warned us, in his book ‘Political Ponerology’, what happens when societies become infested at every level with psychopathic beings. He observed, first in Communist Poland and later in the West, that such creatures, by successfully mimicking souled (meaning genuinely creative and empathic) humans, always infiltrate ideologies, religions, corporations and governments and then, like free radicals in the human body, start to eat away at them, turning a given target into a parody of itself prior to its collapse.

The language issue in the former Yugoslavia is a geopolitically small yet significant pointer to the greater insanity evolving before us.

Does this have anything at all to do with language, or is this just another attempt by Belgrade to dominate it's smaller neighbors?
(Cynic)

I rest my case apropos my previous post.

If Serbia dominates Montenegro, why are so many Montenegrins in powerful positions in Serbia - even today?

@ TP: I'll never forget how a friend of mine (half Croat & half Serb) was unable to tell me if certain actors in Emir Kusturica's movies speak Bosnian, Croatian or Serbian...

I kind of like this, I used to only speak 2 Languages (Serbo-Croat and English), now I speak 5 (Serbian, Croatian, Montenegrin, Bosnian and English) and I didnt have to learn a thing.

Srb said ..."I kind of like this, I used to only speak 2 Languages (Serbo-Croat and English), now I speak 5 (Serbian, Croatian, Montenegrin, Bosnian and English) and I didnt have to learn a thing."

Well said ... Bravo!

The people in montenego especially the intellectuals need to organize mass protests in the street to end the Montenegrin language once an for all and reestablish Serbian as the only official Language in the state. Enough is enough, and they should overthrow krivokapic aka krivomozgic and his government out of power and out of the country for putting montenegro's serbian language and heritage to shame for his shameful actions.

It's nice that we can all joke about the absurdity of nationalizing dialects of the same tongue, and I sure hope that we can one day zoom out the lense to the see the same absurdity in all the rest of the national issues we bicker about (and I'm not speaking only of Serb vs. Montenegrin differences).

Now TP has me thinking about all the "free radicals" that have been messing up the modern world...Milosevic, Tudjman, Izetbegovic, Ganic, Karadzic, Bulatovic, Djukanovic, Stanisic, Babic, Seselj, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Blair, Putin, el Bashir, Mubarak, Mugabe, Ahmadinajad, al-Assad, Bachmann, Ryan...

If the Montenegrins agree to teach Serbian in their schools, will the Serbians reciprocate and agree to teach Montenegrins in their schools?
(Fairness)

-- Unlikely since one is a regional dialect of the other. However I do find all of this to be rather comical considering the differences between the Serbian root language and the Montenegrin Serb dialect to be little more than cosmetic. I too share DimTuc's wondering at to whether an interpreter will be needed at the upcoming meeting.

Citizens of ex Yugo now speak more other countries' languages than Jews.

Does this have anything at all to do with language, or is this just another attempt by Belgrade to dominate it's smaller neighbors?

sve je to jugoslovenski.

Compared to the Porguese in Portugal, Brazilian Portuguese a least uses a wide range of different words and a few different grammar rules. And of course, it has a very different pronounciation. This means the overall difference is larger than the one between British and American English. Yet nobody would ever call the language "Brazilian".

In contrast, the difference between Montenegrin and Serbian is almost non-existant. It's even smaller than the difference between German in Austria and Germany. Actually, even the differences between local dialects in England is bigger.

If the Montenegrins agree to teach Serbian in their schools, will the Serbians reciprocate and agree to teach Montenegrins in their schools?

Miroslavs Gospel was written in the 12th century (about 1190), in the church of St. Peter in Bijelo Polje
It is the oldest known Cyrillic and do not need another alphabet
If you pull them off the tree roots will dry out and disappear.

Does this have anything at all to do with language, or is this just another attempt by Belgrade to dominate it's smaller neighbors?

Citizens of ex Yugo now speak more other countries' languages than Jews.

A funny discussion, considering the fact that the Serbian and the Montenegrin language are almost identical. Anywhere else, one would rather speak of dialects.

As a matter of fact, the differences between the Portuguese in Portugal and the Portuguese in Brazil are a lot bigger.

They are so funny these guys! The serbo- croatian language has a rich culture so now they want to be culturaly poor.The Montenegro authors or singers will only be selling their books and songs in their country. They quickly will be begging to survive or dissappear. All artists should unite and stand up against their silly governments.

Does this have anything at all to do with language, or is this just another attempt by Belgrade to dominate it's smaller neighbors?
(Cynic)

I rest my case apropos my previous post.

If Serbia dominates Montenegro, why are so many Montenegrins in powerful positions in Serbia - even today?

The people in montenego especially the intellectuals need to organize mass protests in the street to end the Montenegrin language once an for all and reestablish Serbian as the only official Language in the state. Enough is enough, and they should overthrow krivokapic aka krivomozgic and his government out of power and out of the country for putting montenegro's serbian language and heritage to shame for his shameful actions.

It's nice that we can all joke about the absurdity of nationalizing dialects of the same tongue, and I sure hope that we can one day zoom out the lense to the see the same absurdity in all the rest of the national issues we bicker about (and I'm not speaking only of Serb vs. Montenegrin differences).

Now TP has me thinking about all the "free radicals" that have been messing up the modern world...Milosevic, Tudjman, Izetbegovic, Ganic, Karadzic, Bulatovic, Djukanovic, Stanisic, Babic, Seselj, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Blair, Putin, el Bashir, Mubarak, Mugabe, Ahmadinajad, al-Assad, Bachmann, Ryan...

I kind of like this, I used to only speak 2 Languages (Serbo-Croat and English), now I speak 5 (Serbian, Croatian, Montenegrin, Bosnian and English) and I didnt have to learn a thing.

‘…the Serbian and the Montenegrin language are almost identical…’

Mike, this is also true for Croatian and Bosnian. In fact, a more accurate division of the Serbo-Croatian language would be between the Ekavian and Ijekavian dialects (with some speaking Ikavian, Kajkavian, etc, in parts of Croatia).

These are, as you say, merely dialects, and almost as many Serbs grew up using the Ijekavian dialect of Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro as the Ekavian used in Serbia itself. And when Ijekavian speaking refugees moved to Serbia during and after the 1991-9 war (not all of them Serbs, by the way) they did not need to learn the Ekavian dialect in order to study or work. This applies also to the many Montenegrins who still flood Serbia, among them some of Serbia’s past and present leaders.

Another analogy to add to your Portuguese one would be the differences between American, Canadian, Australian and British English. They can be far more diverse than the different dialects of Serbo-Croatian, yet they are all referred to as English and we always understand each other perfectly well at every level of verbal complexity, formal or informal.

Or, to take another example, the Dutch in the Netherlands and the Flemish of Belgium share a common language but give them different names. Nevertheless, they readily admit that they speak the same language and do not, as far as I know, claim otherwise for political purposes.

What we are really seeing here, as well as in other parts of the world, is psychopathy at work on a scale never seen before. The late Polish psychologist, Andrei £obaczewski, warned us, in his book ‘Political Ponerology’, what happens when societies become infested at every level with psychopathic beings. He observed, first in Communist Poland and later in the West, that such creatures, by successfully mimicking souled (meaning genuinely creative and empathic) humans, always infiltrate ideologies, religions, corporations and governments and then, like free radicals in the human body, start to eat away at them, turning a given target into a parody of itself prior to its collapse.

The language issue in the former Yugoslavia is a geopolitically small yet significant pointer to the greater insanity evolving before us.

@ TP: I'll never forget how a friend of mine (half Croat & half Serb) was unable to tell me if certain actors in Emir Kusturica's movies speak Bosnian, Croatian or Serbian...

"Language to be discussed in September." Which language will they hold this interesting discussion in? Is it likely to be a big earner for interpreters?

If the Montenegrins agree to teach Serbian in their schools, will the Serbians reciprocate and agree to teach Montenegrins in their schools?

Srb said ..."I kind of like this, I used to only speak 2 Languages (Serbo-Croat and English), now I speak 5 (Serbian, Croatian, Montenegrin, Bosnian and English) and I didnt have to learn a thing."

Well said ... Bravo!

If the Montenegrins agree to teach Serbian in their schools, will the Serbians reciprocate and agree to teach Montenegrins in their schools?
(Fairness)

-- Unlikely since one is a regional dialect of the other. However I do find all of this to be rather comical considering the differences between the Serbian root language and the Montenegrin Serb dialect to be little more than cosmetic. I too share DimTuc's wondering at to whether an interpreter will be needed at the upcoming meeting.

sve je to jugoslovenski.

Compared to the Porguese in Portugal, Brazilian Portuguese a least uses a wide range of different words and a few different grammar rules. And of course, it has a very different pronounciation. This means the overall difference is larger than the one between British and American English. Yet nobody would ever call the language "Brazilian".

In contrast, the difference between Montenegrin and Serbian is almost non-existant. It's even smaller than the difference between German in Austria and Germany. Actually, even the differences between local dialects in England is bigger.

Miroslavs Gospel was written in the 12th century (about 1190), in the church of St. Peter in Bijelo Polje
It is the oldest known Cyrillic and do not need another alphabet
If you pull them off the tree roots will dry out and disappear.