Kosovo not condition for EU, German ambassador claims

I'm tired of their doublespeak. Sure, they say that Kosovo is not condition for EU but to have negotiations start and gain candidate status we basically HAVE to recognise Kosovo which of course will never happen. If they keep pushing us away we'll have no choice but to align with Russia... and that is a far better choice than Western kleptocracy.

Croatia co operates with Germany really well. Always has. Regional co operation of Croatia is a little lacking though wouldn't you say? Still as far as Germany is concerned praising war criminals not dealing with innate racism, reluctance to return property to the Serbs in Krajiana, Thompson and the odd swastika on an Orthodox Church is just fine by the Germans. Welcome Croatia, welcome to Europe, have a sausage, some kupus? mustard? and how about these lederhosen don't they look snazzy.

Most likely, the relationship between Serbia and Kosovo will eventually be like the one between West and East Germany. No official recognition, yet a de facto recognition. The Serbian Embassy in Pristina will be called Permanent Representatives.

Without any doubt, Belgrade's well aware of this. Politicians simply don't dare to speak it out yet.

As always we have a meaningless,beautifoul,non-sense,political-diplomatic jargon by Herr Maas....

"Just divide the rest of the Balkans along ethic lines and get it over with already. Because that's what's going to happen. Redraw the maps and be done with it.
(Dennis, 19 August 2011 16:13) "

Leaving humanitarian problems aside, there'd be two major problems:

a) Ethnicity's anything but a clear classification. Is Montenegrin really a different ethnicity than Serb? Is there really an ethnic difference between Bulgarians and Macedonians? Are Albanians from South Albania really the same ethnicity as those from the north and Kosovo? What about the muslims in Sandzak? Are they really Bosniaks? And are the current ethnic classifications longterm and permanent?

b) Even if we'd accept the current ethnic classifications, a division would result in an even more absurd, confusing map of southeastern Europe than the one we have today. Independence for the Turks in Bulgaria &the Gagauzians in Moldova? Should small parts of northern Romania be united with the Ukraine? An independent Sandzak?

Maybe I'm just an oldfashioned fool, but I think multiethnic states would be far better. Probably the Vance-Owen plan and Germany's premature recognition of Croatia, Slovenia and BiH were the biggest mistake in the European history of the late 20th century.

Germany's double standards are indeed abhorrent. Still I doubt national stereotypes of sausage eating Germans or Slivovic drinking Serbs are particularly helpful. In fact, I believe stereotypical greatly contributes to the problems in former Yugoslavia.

Just divide the rest of the Balkans along ethic lines and get it over with already. Because that's what's going to happen. Redraw the maps and be done with it.

He is lying.

Mike, now your talking about more than I recommend. North Kosovo is the worlds major hot spot. And the only major muti-ethnic country in the Balkans is Serbia. Bosnia is divided into monoethnic RS and almost monoethic Bosnian side. Croatia is just about monoethnic, Slovinija is mostly monoethnic, kosovo is just about monoethnic. Montinegro is mostly Serbs calling themselves Serbs or Montinagrins basicly monoethnic. Swap the valley for North Kosovo and get it over with. Bosnia will fall apart sooner or later. its a matter of time before things start up in Macedonia. Sandjiak is berwing. Voivodina is 80% -90% Serbs so not nuch there except for the Hungarians and they arn't going to make a big deal. As much as I miss "Yugoslavia" wasn't Tito "forcing" people to live together, and that was ripped apart by the WEST. And today the WEST is forcing people in the Balkans to live together so what was the point of killing Yugoslavia. They could have saved many lives and beautifull landscaping by leaving Yugoslavia alone and work on keeping them together through talk like they insist on now. All or nothing I say.

"Is there really an ethnic difference between Bosnaiaks, Croats, Serbs and Montenegrins? Isn't it more like they are several local tribes with different religion, but they are all south Slavs?
(Questioner, 20 August 2011 16:10) "

I agree. Here's an even meaner question: Is there really any difference between Serbian, Turkish & Armenian coffee? And why does my beloved Serbian music have so many similarities with Turkish music?

"a) Ethnicity's anything but a clear classification. Is Montenegrin really a different ethnicity than Serb? Is there really an ethnic difference between Bulgarians and Macedonians?"
(Mike, 20 August 2011 09:21)

Is there really an ethnic difference between Bosnaiaks, Croats, Serbs and Montenegrins? Isn't it more like they are several local tribes with different religion, but they are all south Slavs? Furthermore, with all the mixed marriages in ex-YU it makes no sense to claim some 'pure ethnicity'.

I'm tired of their doublespeak. Sure, they say that Kosovo is not condition for EU but to have negotiations start and gain candidate status we basically HAVE to recognise Kosovo which of course will never happen. If they keep pushing us away we'll have no choice but to align with Russia... and that is a far better choice than Western kleptocracy.
(Vardarska Serb, 19 August 2011 10:16)

good lord. as long as there are hold outs in the eu in recognizing kosovo... They CANNOT officially make it a condition.

there is no trickery, confusion, or misunderstanding about it.

When it comes down to it... EU heads cant dictate the matter to members, there will be a vote by individual members. every EU member that has recognized kosovo will NOT vote to allow serbia into the club...

Thats the reality. YOUR govt. keeps stringing you along.

even before serbia gets anywhere near the end of the process... they MUST resolve it one way or another. As long as it is the serbian position that they do not control a enormous chunk of what it pretends to be its terroritory, and that millions of citizens do not recognize them, that even as they cling to the idea that un1244 is still relevant... wich only confirms the total absence of any serbian authority.

serbia simply wouldnt qualify to reach the point of even holding a vote.

is there anything you still dont understand? how does your govt. explain to you they will get over those pesky little hurdles? thats right, they dont.

it is utterly HILARIOUS for you to threaten to "align" with russia.
Russia DOES NOTHING for serbia.... how has russian "support" for every serb nutjob to come along turned out for serbs these past few decades?

Russia already does all it ever will. what magical difference do you think it will make for serbia to "align" with russia? russia will shower serbia with money?

Serbia already sold off its energy future on the cheap, has become a glorified gas station to service russian gas to west. and suffers the indignity of receiving loans they must pay back to improve the infrastructure in wich they will pump russian gas... this is russian "friendship".

ticking off the eu, isolating yourself from your neighbors, "cheering" for other markets that you are not part of and dont benefit you...this is the alternative your "threatening"?


go ahead.


or, accept the simple reality that slobo is dead, greater serbia aint happening. kosovo is long gone. And serbia simply has NOTHING to lose.

The main reason why the west doesn't want a unification of northern Kosovo with Serbia is the fear of precisely the domino effect Dennis is describing. First northern Kosovo, then Macedonia, Bosnia, possibly followed by Sandzak & Moldova.

Of course, it was the west who started the developmemnt: First Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia were recognized, then the Vance-Owen-Plan showed the west's willingness to accept an ethnic division of BiH. An independent Kosovo followed eventually.

As far as the propopsed unwillingness of the people in former Yugoslavia to live together is concerned: I don't buy it, at least as far as ordinary people are concerned. Of course there are and were what I'd call certain resentments. However, without certain people (mafia, politicians, religious leaders) who added fuel to all this and earned a lot of money by doing so, I doubt this absolutely ridiculous division of the Balkans would ever have taken place.

As always we have a meaningless,beautifoul,non-sense,political-diplomatic jargon by Herr Maas....

Most likely, the relationship between Serbia and Kosovo will eventually be like the one between West and East Germany. No official recognition, yet a de facto recognition. The Serbian Embassy in Pristina will be called Permanent Representatives.

Without any doubt, Belgrade's well aware of this. Politicians simply don't dare to speak it out yet.

I'm tired of their doublespeak. Sure, they say that Kosovo is not condition for EU but to have negotiations start and gain candidate status we basically HAVE to recognise Kosovo which of course will never happen. If they keep pushing us away we'll have no choice but to align with Russia... and that is a far better choice than Western kleptocracy.

Croatia co operates with Germany really well. Always has. Regional co operation of Croatia is a little lacking though wouldn't you say? Still as far as Germany is concerned praising war criminals not dealing with innate racism, reluctance to return property to the Serbs in Krajiana, Thompson and the odd swastika on an Orthodox Church is just fine by the Germans. Welcome Croatia, welcome to Europe, have a sausage, some kupus? mustard? and how about these lederhosen don't they look snazzy.

Mike, now your talking about more than I recommend. North Kosovo is the worlds major hot spot. And the only major muti-ethnic country in the Balkans is Serbia. Bosnia is divided into monoethnic RS and almost monoethic Bosnian side. Croatia is just about monoethnic, Slovinija is mostly monoethnic, kosovo is just about monoethnic. Montinegro is mostly Serbs calling themselves Serbs or Montinagrins basicly monoethnic. Swap the valley for North Kosovo and get it over with. Bosnia will fall apart sooner or later. its a matter of time before things start up in Macedonia. Sandjiak is berwing. Voivodina is 80% -90% Serbs so not nuch there except for the Hungarians and they arn't going to make a big deal. As much as I miss "Yugoslavia" wasn't Tito "forcing" people to live together, and that was ripped apart by the WEST. And today the WEST is forcing people in the Balkans to live together so what was the point of killing Yugoslavia. They could have saved many lives and beautifull landscaping by leaving Yugoslavia alone and work on keeping them together through talk like they insist on now. All or nothing I say.

Just divide the rest of the Balkans along ethic lines and get it over with already. Because that's what's going to happen. Redraw the maps and be done with it.

Germany's double standards are indeed abhorrent. Still I doubt national stereotypes of sausage eating Germans or Slivovic drinking Serbs are particularly helpful. In fact, I believe stereotypical greatly contributes to the problems in former Yugoslavia.

"Just divide the rest of the Balkans along ethic lines and get it over with already. Because that's what's going to happen. Redraw the maps and be done with it.
(Dennis, 19 August 2011 16:13) "

Leaving humanitarian problems aside, there'd be two major problems:

a) Ethnicity's anything but a clear classification. Is Montenegrin really a different ethnicity than Serb? Is there really an ethnic difference between Bulgarians and Macedonians? Are Albanians from South Albania really the same ethnicity as those from the north and Kosovo? What about the muslims in Sandzak? Are they really Bosniaks? And are the current ethnic classifications longterm and permanent?

b) Even if we'd accept the current ethnic classifications, a division would result in an even more absurd, confusing map of southeastern Europe than the one we have today. Independence for the Turks in Bulgaria &the Gagauzians in Moldova? Should small parts of northern Romania be united with the Ukraine? An independent Sandzak?

Maybe I'm just an oldfashioned fool, but I think multiethnic states would be far better. Probably the Vance-Owen plan and Germany's premature recognition of Croatia, Slovenia and BiH were the biggest mistake in the European history of the late 20th century.

I'm tired of their doublespeak. Sure, they say that Kosovo is not condition for EU but to have negotiations start and gain candidate status we basically HAVE to recognise Kosovo which of course will never happen. If they keep pushing us away we'll have no choice but to align with Russia... and that is a far better choice than Western kleptocracy.
(Vardarska Serb, 19 August 2011 10:16)

good lord. as long as there are hold outs in the eu in recognizing kosovo... They CANNOT officially make it a condition.

there is no trickery, confusion, or misunderstanding about it.

When it comes down to it... EU heads cant dictate the matter to members, there will be a vote by individual members. every EU member that has recognized kosovo will NOT vote to allow serbia into the club...

Thats the reality. YOUR govt. keeps stringing you along.

even before serbia gets anywhere near the end of the process... they MUST resolve it one way or another. As long as it is the serbian position that they do not control a enormous chunk of what it pretends to be its terroritory, and that millions of citizens do not recognize them, that even as they cling to the idea that un1244 is still relevant... wich only confirms the total absence of any serbian authority.

serbia simply wouldnt qualify to reach the point of even holding a vote.

is there anything you still dont understand? how does your govt. explain to you they will get over those pesky little hurdles? thats right, they dont.

it is utterly HILARIOUS for you to threaten to "align" with russia.
Russia DOES NOTHING for serbia.... how has russian "support" for every serb nutjob to come along turned out for serbs these past few decades?

Russia already does all it ever will. what magical difference do you think it will make for serbia to "align" with russia? russia will shower serbia with money?

Serbia already sold off its energy future on the cheap, has become a glorified gas station to service russian gas to west. and suffers the indignity of receiving loans they must pay back to improve the infrastructure in wich they will pump russian gas... this is russian "friendship".

ticking off the eu, isolating yourself from your neighbors, "cheering" for other markets that you are not part of and dont benefit you...this is the alternative your "threatening"?


go ahead.


or, accept the simple reality that slobo is dead, greater serbia aint happening. kosovo is long gone. And serbia simply has NOTHING to lose.

He is lying.

"a) Ethnicity's anything but a clear classification. Is Montenegrin really a different ethnicity than Serb? Is there really an ethnic difference between Bulgarians and Macedonians?"
(Mike, 20 August 2011 09:21)

Is there really an ethnic difference between Bosnaiaks, Croats, Serbs and Montenegrins? Isn't it more like they are several local tribes with different religion, but they are all south Slavs? Furthermore, with all the mixed marriages in ex-YU it makes no sense to claim some 'pure ethnicity'.

The main reason why the west doesn't want a unification of northern Kosovo with Serbia is the fear of precisely the domino effect Dennis is describing. First northern Kosovo, then Macedonia, Bosnia, possibly followed by Sandzak & Moldova.

Of course, it was the west who started the developmemnt: First Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia were recognized, then the Vance-Owen-Plan showed the west's willingness to accept an ethnic division of BiH. An independent Kosovo followed eventually.

As far as the propopsed unwillingness of the people in former Yugoslavia to live together is concerned: I don't buy it, at least as far as ordinary people are concerned. Of course there are and were what I'd call certain resentments. However, without certain people (mafia, politicians, religious leaders) who added fuel to all this and earned a lot of money by doing so, I doubt this absolutely ridiculous division of the Balkans would ever have taken place.

"Is there really an ethnic difference between Bosnaiaks, Croats, Serbs and Montenegrins? Isn't it more like they are several local tribes with different religion, but they are all south Slavs?
(Questioner, 20 August 2011 16:10) "

I agree. Here's an even meaner question: Is there really any difference between Serbian, Turkish & Armenian coffee? And why does my beloved Serbian music have so many similarities with Turkish music?