"K. Albanians synchronize plans with U.S. to expel Serbs"

BREKING NEWS

14 New countries recognised Kosovo in the last hour from caraiben CARICOM.

Who else but american occupiers. KiM was Serbian before america even existed. Now these occupiers are trying to teach us some kind of lessons. They are responsible for all the problems and suffering!

"The minister pointed out that Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci did not accidentally choose this moment to prevent buses from central Serbia from entering Kosovo and to begin construction of a bridge over the Sitnica River."

This man Bogdanovic is sharp! Nothing gets by him. Of course Thaci did not accidentally choose this moment. When you're independent Kosova you get to call the shots! If Thaci wants to build 10 bridges he can. If he wants to close the borders permanently he can. Serbia should change Bogdanovic's job title from "Kosova Minister" to "master of the obvious". Its crazy to think that he collects a check monthly from the state. What has he done for ANYBODY?

Ataman,

Serbs have been for two hundred years in Kosovo prior to the coming of Turks, and for 90 years years during the twentieth century. I would say that Balkans has been around for mare than 300 years. Wouldn't you agree? Or, does history start and end in 300 years.2zl8ye

"Instead of just making a claim prove it? SHOW ME PROOF!
(MikeC,"

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v426/n6965/images/nature02029-f1.2.jpg

http://www.russia-talk.com/history/slavs-VIII.jpg


Dont act surprised!


As for Ataman, Je¿ albañski, kosowski i enwerski,

Nice, a Slavic wants to teach autochtones history... lol
Have you wondered why all you have name tags like IC SKI and OS? Or why you cant be a nationality with out the Orthodox?

"Kosovo was albanian before serbs even existed."
Njeri

Instead of just making a claim prove it? Prove to readers at this forum that albanians were in Kosovo before the serbs? You must have something other then just empty words to prove that Kosovo was inhabited by albanians before anyone else? The fact is you have nothing to suggest that that is the case. Any culture would have built some buildings or living areas that would remain for the comming generations to see. However, albanians base their history on made up stories instead of facts. SHOW ME PROOF!

Surely you have read Noel Malcolm's book on Kosova, or is it one of the many books banned in Serbia. Go to the library at Harvard Univ. or the Nation Library in Serbia if you are allowed, and you will find plenty of evidence.
(Former Black Eagle, 18 August 2011 17:23)

Is it really worth it?

http://www.amazon.com/Kosovo-Short-History-Noel-Malcolm/product-reviews/0060977752/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar

Here is a completely unbiased view:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1DY5UCVSAK7XC/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R1DY5UCVSAK7XC

But does the book discuss the times before Sinan Pasha mosque was built?

Looks, like the history for him begins in the 16th century, precisely when the number of Albanians was something worth to mention.

In other words: an other Enver Hoxha propaganda-book in disguise. With the same success we can read the Little Red Book of Mao Zedong. Meh...

Njeri
It's pretty, clear, that most of the Balkans is and was Serbian!
Slav=Serb,
The word Serb is older then slav, so some thousand years ago slavs called themselves serbs and many other names like alans.sarmantians, or regional based or clan based.
But here goes the problem, since the break up of the ottoman empire and it's last days, only orthodox people where allowed to be Serbs, at the same time many people, where catholic and muslim, and so became an other ethnic group...

And now are place names like, radomire,trojak,bele,vernik,dobran,backa, brozdovec,novosele,vodice,gumenice,nivice,zemnec. pure albanian?

These pure albanian names I can find across albania.

So I can conclude, that those place names and many others are in fact Albanized Serbian/slavic former place names.

And PLS, do not come up with your Illirian fanatsy, because Hungarians/Slovens/Croats/Bosnjaks/Montenegrins/macedonians/Serbs/alabnians and even some greeks have all illirian origin and it is not exclusive albanian!

I cannot believe that people like him still run a country in Europe. How can he spread lies as such? I do hope that the Serbian population will give the right answer to the problems in the Balkans and ask its own government to move away from the past and leave Bosnia and Herzegovia and Kosovo alone, and focus on the everyday problems of citizens of Serbia. It is a disgrace to see a so called "democratic" government cause these problems in Europe after so many years of bloody wars in that region!

Here again an immaterial academic discussion about who lived in Kosovo 500, 5000 or 500 million years ago. According to science, it is a fact that bacteria were the first form of life to live in Kosovo (and the whole earth) a few hundred million year ago. Not sure though what you're going to use that fact for ! I hope that somebody would not suggest that Kosovo's and the whole World's homo sapiens would have to disappear to return earth back to the bacteria...

However, albanians base their history on made up stories instead of facts. SHOW ME PROOF!
(MikeC, 18 August 2011 16:49)

MikeC,

Surely you have read Noel Malcolm's book on Kosova, or is it one of the many books banned in Serbia. Go to the library at Harvard Univ. or the Nation Library in Serbia if you are allowed, and you will find plenty of evidence.

Thaci and the americans want to create a concentration camp for serbs in the north where they can be managed. The albanians will never change and will have to beg from more money from the gulf states and Turkey who will be able to buy them quite cheaply. It is a pity as the US is running out of time to reform itself before it collapses and the albanians will remain in Thaci's perpetual narco-territory regularly paid off by europe to not attack anything non albanian.

Kosovo was albanian before serbs even existed.
(Njeri, 18 August 2011 16:20)

Before the 13th century Albanians had no written history and the first proof of their cultural existence are the churches built by Muzaka family in Kastoria. Which is about a day and half drive from Kosovo.

Building anything larger than a shed requires certain experience and claiming a country or empire means that these countries / empires have strong enough leaders who managed these.

If a leader is strong enough to claim a large enough territory - he always supports his claim by erecting nice buildings. The stronger the leader, the more elaborate is the building.

So far: the very first building in Kosovo which was sponsored by someone, who can be regarded as Albanian is the Sinan Pasha mosque in Prizren - and the material used to build it according the legend - was a destroyed near-by monastery. That legend is maybe not correct, but there is nothing in Kosovo what was sponsored by an Albanian overlord before Ottoman period.

Period.

This is a critical period, and these thugs in pristina will do whatever it takes to steal the north. However, their patience isn't going to be unlimited. The more resources expended in attempt to appropriate the north, and the longer it takes, the Albanians will become increasingly frustrated. This frustration will likely cause an irrational reaction which in turn will jeopardize their plans. Keeping a solid stance will do no more than frustrate the Albanians. Do not change plans, no matter what. They will not attack as has already been proven. For all their might (actually it's the US and NATO's might), they couldn't prevent a rag tag group of peaceful civilians from barricading the roads. Thank goodness for advances in the internet and communication. Otherwise, if this were the 1990's who knows what would have been. Today, the evil doers (as Bush used to call the unethical thugs), cannot get away with their thugery, as the world has eyes and is watching them. So, don't fear anything my Serb brothers and sisters for you are protected and in the end the north will be kept Serb. Foolish people (Albanians and their supporters) are irrational and will eventually crack. Rational people (Serbs and their supporters) will be able to stand up to this pressure, as we have already seen and will continue to see.

Who else but american occupiers. KiM was Serbian before america even existed. Now these occupiers are trying to teach us some kind of lessons. They are responsible for all the problems and suffering!
(Ratko, 18 August 2011 15:41)

Yeeh Ratko, you serbs have never done anything wrong. You are angels....

Kosovo has never been Serbia. You have only build some churches on somebody else's land. Kosovo was albanian before serbs even existed. And after that to. You occupied Kosovo a little period in medival time just like you have occupied it since 1912. Kosovo got to it's rightfull owners in 2008 february 17.

And Amercia support us just as Russia support you. Don't cry that our ''big brother'' are bigger than yours. Stop complaining!! I thought you were the regonal powerhouse of the Balkans ??

"Go to the library at Harvard Univ. or the Nation Library in Serbia if you are allowed, and you will find plenty of evidence."

Former Black Eagle

Never heard of Noel Malcom. Have you?
So all I have to do is go from my home in Malmoe, Sweden, and travel to the US of A and/or Serbia to find proof of albanian history in Kosovo. And silly me thougt is was widely know that albanians were the indigenous people of Kosovo and that that iformation could be found everywhere. If this was 50 years ago then ok but surely there must be one webpage that has the same info as these books?

My question is: is there a neutral internet source that writes about albanians in pre-Serb Kosovo???

as you Serbs would say: lupnuo je i ostao ziv. :)

Dude..your eating to much mushrooms...!!

Could there be an article about on which bases Kosovo authorities prevented Serbian buses entering Kosovo? Without this knowledge this is just dull, pointless and unintelligent chewing of the matter.

"“There were some problems in the beginning, but goods up to 3.5 tons pass through on a daily basis now. If the government determines that the agreement is being violated, Serbs will reintroduce barricades at the crossings,” the minister for Kosovo pointed out."

Ok great, reintroduce the barricades so that not even goods up tp 3.5 tons can pass :)

SHOW ME PROOF!
(MikeC, 18 August 2011 16:49)

Would you accept some writings of Comrade Enver Hoxha in lieu of other documents?

On the premise that before now these Serbian buses have been going through Jarinje border without proper documentation such as a commercial driver's license, insurance, etc. After the reciprocal blockade KFOR is redirect all non-private voyage to other border check points where the border police is informing these companies they need to be properly documented to enter.





Thanks,

Ah yes yes, the show me the proof mikec says

Since the Ilirians were divided into numerous tribes along what used to be jugoslavia and still is modern Albania made it easy prey for remaining constantly on foreign occupation never getting a chance to fully develop culturaly and unify as the greeks did, ( greek culture developed before Roman occupation) we Albanians didnt even have an alphabet until the congress of Manastir, now this mikec guys wants proof, use ur head and read books form relevant authors
not serbian propaganda sites if u indeed seek proof.

The truth is Illyrians were not culturally developed to have an alphabet for writings to leave behind. Even early Albanian books were either in greek or latin and was in late period compared to other nations in the region. Old monumenst were built by the occupying forces of the Ancient Romans, so no Illyrian monuments exists since they were occupied from foreigner, Historians describe life in ancient Iliria as constant warefare among themselvs even before roman invasion. (don't remeber quote read illyrian history by the establish respected internacional encyclopedias)


Our ancestors did indeed pass on their proven indo-european language ORALY. Shqip is spoken in Albania only. Where is slvic spoken? Russia,Poland,Ukraine,Belarus,Slovakia,all former jugosllav republics, The south slav migration is doctmented in the history books. At 6th centry AD migrations of south slavs corossed into the Balkans, and assimilated all of indigenious tribes except for south Illyrian tribes who surprisingly maintained thier traditions and language. Is there any Albanian migration into the Balkans documented? Absoulutly no document exist.

For a serb to claim indigenious over Albanian is like European Americans claiming to be the first nations of North American continent. The Aboriginals did not write down their history aswell
but they were not under foerign occupation limiting them from
expressing their culture through monuments until, The European colonization of North America took place. So even though they had no writings they had physical monuments way before European colonization.

serbs, it would be wise not to use the we were here first argument because serbs cannot possibly back it up, you could use it
but you will not be taken seriously just like FYR macedonia whith regards to its claim to ancient Hellenic Macedonian dynasty.

Instead, it would be wise to stick to the might makes right argument, thats how the world has always functioned, but since Albanians have the upper hand in the might makes right which the serbs are not used to especially coming from the Albanians, I sense a desperate attempt form serbs to portary themselvs as victims when they use their churces as arguments for being there first. On the contrary for much of the history in the Balkans its the Albanians who have been the victims, surving assimilation form The Romans, Byzantine, Ottoman, and south
slav empires who have swept through and leavig their mark on what remains of little modern day Albania.

I wrote a very long and good response to MikeC but B92 diden't publish it. I am sorry MikeC that you diden't got my answer. It was pure fact that albanians were in Kosovo before serbs and have allways been a majority in Kosovo. I dont know why B92 decided not to publish it since it was nothing against anybody but only fact. But I guess it was to much...

If B92 allowes me I am going to give you a couple of questions. If serbs came to the Balkans in 7 th century how come Kosovo is the cradle of serb civilization when serbs occupyed Kosovo in the 13 th century? And they occupyed Kosovo for only 250 years. The ottomans occupyed Kosovo for 500 years. So Kosovo belongs more to Turkey than to Serbia since ottoman Turkey occupyed it for a more longer time?? Do you mean that?

As for no albanian hertige in Kosovo. By belive is that it got burned down by the occupíers as the romans,serbs and ottomans. How come Dardanians lived there for thousand of years and there is no sign of them anywhere?? Maybee it means that their hertige got burned down and ruined by romans and serbs??

That’s a strong accusation Mr. Bogdanovic, especially accusing US. I can’t wait for US’s reaction tomorrow and having your President backtrack and apologize for what you are saying. Don’t forget most of the foreign money/aod to Serbia comes from US…

It is far beyond even the Daco-Roman madness.
(Ataman, 18 August 2011 22:13)

Is Daco-Roman your latest obsession? What has happened to Basta?

Again: name one single building in Kosovo which was sponsored by Albanian overlord before 16th century.
(Ataman, 18 August 2011 20:22)

I will gvie one for starter : Decani Monastery.

Given the reviews the book is not worth the money and efforts to order it: very much political book. And it does not answer the question I asked.
Again: name one single building in Kosovo which was sponsored by Albanian overlord before 16th century.
(Ataman, 18 August 2011 20:22)

The reviews give it a combined 4.5 out of 5 stars. Now, this is not bad given the fact that anyone can write a review about anything - just as it happens in this forum everyday. Maybe you chose to read only the one star reviews which make up a minority.
I have read the book and found it immensely insightful and extremely well researched. The author goes out of his way in order to not offend anybody and if anybody needs proofs or answers this book has them for you.
It is a highly recommended read for Serbs, Albanians and anyone interested the history of the area. If you don't feel like spending money buying it you should be able to find it in public libraries.

ugotServed

What the heck was that? Links to charts that show what?
If that is all you can find then you just proved albanians are as new to Kosovo as europeans are to Australia. You should be ashamed for stealing someone elses land.

Serbs were in Kosovo way before just 200 years before the Turks. The city of Gordoservon, founded in 680, which is now situated in modern day Turkey was made up of Serbs who had previously lived along the Vardar river in today's Macedonia.
It was 20-30,000 Serb soldiers from the Vardar area who went to found Gordoservon all the way back in 680.

You can bet if Serbs (and adult male soldiers only) were as numerous as 30,000 from Vardar, that their entire population was many times higher and if they were in that area, they'd most likely be already in the Kosovo area too.

And this shows why it was foolish to allow the reopening of the U.S. Embassy in Serbia because it serves to spy on and harm Serbia and Serbia hasn't any positive by reopening certain EU countries embassies in order to help their country. That was the reason for reopening after that phony temporary show of closing them after the recognition of Kosovo (and right after Tadic was reelected - Serbs should remember that: voting the way EU wants means the EU can bully Serbs and get what it wants too so they will continue to do that), was that the Serbian government could help their country diplomatically by doing that. But it didn't and doesn't work.

Surely you have read Noel Malcolm's book on Kosova, or is it one of the many books banned in Serbia. Go to the library at Harvard Univ. or the Nation Library in Serbia if you are allowed, and you will find plenty of evidence.
(Former Black Eagle, 18 August 2011 17:23)

By the way: it is not BANNED in Serbia. Anyone who has a credit card can order it and it will come trough.
It is, however, not sold in most bookstores in the area.

To say it's being "banned" is pretty over-statement, I could say the same book is "banned" in most countries in the world, USA included because it is rarely sold in most stores, you have to order it from Amazon.

Given the reviews the book is not worth the money and efforts to order it: very much political book. And it does not answer the question I asked.

Again: name one single building in Kosovo which was sponsored by Albanian overlord before 16th century.

Ataman,

Serbs have been for two hundred years in Kosovo prior to the coming of Turks, and for 90 years years during the twentieth century. I would say that Balkans has been around for mare than 300 years. Wouldn't you agree? Or, does history start and end in 300 years.2zl8ye
(Bill, 18 August 2011 20:06)

Slavic presence in Kosovo was from 6th - 7th century. Before that Greeks, Romans, Huns, Avars did settle and mixed with the Celtic, Thracian, Illyrian (and many other) tribes.

That did not made them "Albanian". The only sign of Albanian presence was a permanent military detachment of whatever empire got the upper hand to protect the villagers from plunder and rapine - done by mountaineers on regular basis. There you go... they were the ancestors of Albanians. This is well-recorded in Roman and Byzantine sources.

Noel Malcolm, former/President of the Anglo-Albanian Association. Hardly a neutral source.

BREKING NEWS

14 New countries recognised Kosovo in the last hour from caraiben CARICOM.
(Mendo, 18 August 2011 19:10)

Yeah, yeah, if it's true than some - like Belize - did recognize Kosovo the second time, first time they did was August 7, 2008. I still stand by my words regarding the meaning of "bought" recognitions.

And now are place names like, radomire,trojak,bele,vernik,dobran,backa, brozdovec,novosele,vodice,gumenice,nivice,zemnec. pure albanian?

(mick, 18 August 2011 19:30)

And how about Pogradec in Albania... pure Illyrian name... LOL.
We are telling a blind who mentally suffers from that fact and imagines himself being a seer - that he is a blind person.

No argument is enough, they are obsessed with their own greatness precisely because they know how much that "greatness" is worth. It is far beyond even the Daco-Roman madness.

Isn't there anyone writing here who actually knows for sure and can clarify?
(DimTuc, 19 August 2011 02:33)

DimTuc,

http://www.nato.int/kfor/docu/pr/pr2011.htm

Check the 3 August press release, Nothing Hill Agreement Drafted.

@MikeC

Dude, seriosully, your comment sounds like 'earth is flat, if you think it isn't SHOW ME PROOF.

Relax man, just read up on Illyrians and that's it. Go now, read, relax and enlighten your soul and mind.

The truth is Illyrians were not culturally developed to have an alphabet for writings to leave behind.


Is there any Albanian migration into the Balkans documented? Absoulutly no document exist.

(Skifteri, 18 August 2011 21:40)

Almost sounds like you defeated your own assertions, no documented Albanian migration into the Balkans, because Albanians didnt document. Must have come from somewhere at some time in history, just that they didnt/couldnt write it down.

just a thought

While I don't doubt for a moment that the Albanians are continuously trying to expel what few Serbs are left alive in Kosovo, I doubt that the US has any involvement in that. The USA is notoriously moronic when it comes to ethnic conflicts, it's as if their own troubles with race relations in the US has lobotomized them on the subject.

As for the Albanian history in the Balkans, they were a tribe that immigrated to the region from the Caucasus. Although it's very probable that they intermarried with the indigenous population that lived there (just like any of the other tribes that migrated to the Balkans), that doesn't change the fact that the Albanian people's origin was from another region. This doesn't mean that they have no right to live in the Balkans (after all, everyone but the Greeks moved into the region a little over a thousand years ago), but it also doesn't give them the right to claim land that is historically that of other peoples.

@Skifteri:

"Albanians came from caucasus? since when? a date please would be useul"

There isn't any mention of Albanians in the Balkans prior to the 11th century in any Byzantine, Greek, or other texts. There aren't any Albanian place-names in the Balkans that predate the 11th century. If Albanians were present since the times times of the ancient Greeks, there would not only be place-names of Albanian linguistic origin but neighboring languages would have more words in common, and their presence would certainly have been noted. The earliest mention of Albanians was when Georgius Maniakos procured Albanian soldiers to fight for Byzantium in 1042. It was after this that these Albanians settled in the region.

The argument that the Caucasus has non-Indo-European linguistic groups, ruling out this region as the Albanian homeland, is weak in my opinion. After all, Iran and India have Indo-European-speaking peoples, and they are surrounded by dissimilar linguistic groups.

We shouldn't care what propagandists of any side say, it's verifiable facts that should win the day. fwiw I'm not Serbian.

Last but not least, there isn't any reason to be embarrassed or angry at the fact that some very, very, very distant ancestors of yours or mine came from somewhere else. Everyone's ancestor came from some place else if you go far back enough in time. Like I wrote before, the fact that the Albanians (just like the other tribes in the region) migrated to the Balkans does not mean that they don't have a right to live there. It does not, however, entitle them (or any other group) to lay claim to either territory or history that isn't theirs.

@Daniel,

Dude, you do have scary comments. Personally I think you are not 'Taman' as they say in Balkans, and should be monitored by anti-terrorist agency, as looks like there is a chance you may turn one, although you may not know it yet! You seem to hold a lot of anger, and in your head are making 'plans' for something you have no control of

ethnic cleansing legalized by the US

I will gvie one for starter : Decani Monastery.
(Agim Kelmendi, 19 August 2011 07:47)

Wrong. Name the Albanian ruler who sponsored it - not a monk from Trogir who is RUMORED to be Albanian and is RUMORED to be one of the many designers.

I will gvie one for starter : Decani Monastery.
(Agim Kelmendi, 19 August 2011 07:47)

Since my last answer to you was an ex-cathedra and it does not count, here is something what can be regarded as impartial - from Unesco and not some Serbian source you would question:

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/724

"The Dečani monastic church is the endowment and mausoleum of Serbian King Stefan Dečanski. The original founding charter from 1330 has been preserved. The construction lasted 8 years (1327-1335), and the master builder was Fra Vita, a Franciscan from Kotor."

Obviously anything you can use is related to Father Vita from Kotor - the endowment being firmly Serbian.

So in bigger detail.

1) This is precisely what I said. Father Vita could be Albanian - but there was not a single Albanian ruler in the area who even remotely could be compared with King Stefan Dečanski.

2) In any reference you can found Fra Vita is mentioned as "belonging to a MINORITY from the city of Kotor".

References:

http://www.dobrota.edu.me/English/Kotoreng.htm (Official Montenegrin source)
http://repository.upenn.edu/dissertations/AAI9427594 (from University of Pennsilvania)

I do not see how all this would support a theory of significant Albanian population in Kosovo i Metohija in the 13th-14th centuries.

Yes, he COULD be Albanian. That's all. It does not prove anything you claim.

If you don't feel like spending money buying it you should be able to find it in public libraries.
(Mini Giraffe, 19 August 2011 18:22)

OK, deal - if I find it in the library here (Hungary) I will read it. Well could be, the book is available only in the library of the U.S. or British Embassy. But FYI: I did read reviews from both sides and the neutrality of the author is under question. Regardless - I do not see he does review the 500 B.C. - 1200 A.D. period. Or does he?

These assertions and counter-assertions have been going on for weeks. All along, Serb ngotiators have been saying that goods in trucks of up to 3.5 tons can pass through, but not bigger trucks. Albanians have been saying no goods at all can come through, and "under 3.5 tons" only refers to humanitarian aid. Here, in responding to Bogdanovic, icj1, apparently an Albanian supporter, seems to be agreeing with him that goods in under-3.5 ton trucks can pass through
(DimTuc, 19 August 2011 02:33)

I did not agree or disagree about that (not that anybody would care anyway - it's not me who decides that). I was just citing the news article.



and up to now are doing so. Others violently disagree. Kfor is mute on the specifics of the agreement.
(DimTuc, 19 August 2011 02:33)

Dude, don't you get it that there is no agreement at all and KFOR decides who enters and who doesn't in accordance with the decisions of the Kosovo government. "The agreement" was just for Serbia's internal consumpution...



Isn't there anyone writing here who actually knows for sure and can clarify? (slightly more relevant in current conditions than the question of who allegedly lived or ruled in this area 1000s of years ago, though it is ninteresting from an academic point of view)
(DimTuc, 19 August 2011 02:33)

Why do you want to know for sure ? You have a vehicle and want to enter Kosovo ?!

As for the Albanian history in the Balkans, they were a tribe that immigrated to the region from the Caucasus. Although it's very probable that they intermarried with the indigenous population that lived there (just like any of the other tribes that migrated to the Balkans), that doesn't change the fact that the Albanian people's origin was from another region. This doesn't mean that they have no right to live in the Balkans (after all, everyone but the Greeks moved into the region a little over a thousand years ago), but it also doesn't give them the right to claim land that is historically that of other peoples.
(noname, 20 August 2011 10:
____________


Albanians came from caucasus? since when? a date please would be useul

actually just dont bother u'd be wasting your own time, theres in no dated migration

the barbarians that invaded in the middle ages dominated the balkans indigeneous peoples, the invading albanians from caucasus got dominated by the illyrians and made them learn their language before the salvs absorbed them is what noname is basically refering to.

thats same great work man you really figured out how the Albanians came to learn the oldest spoken language in europe.

The Albanian language is proven to be Indo-European not caucasian. They do not mention that in serbian propaganda sites i guess.

"“There were some problems in the beginning, but goods up to 3.5 tons pass through on a daily basis now. If the government determines that the agreement is being violated, Serbs will reintroduce barricades at the crossings,” the minister for Kosovo pointed out."

Ok great, reintroduce the barricades so that not even goods up tp 3.5 tons can pass :)
(icj1, 18 August 2011 16:31)"

These assertions and counter-assertions have been going on for weeks. All along, Serb ngotiators have been saying that goods in trucks of up to 3.5 tons can pass through, but not bigger trucks. Albanians have been saying no goods at all can come through, and "under 3.5 tons" only refers to humanitarian aid. Here, in responding to Bogdanovic, icj1, apparently an Albanian supporter, seems to be agreeing with him that goods in under-3.5 ton trucks can pass through, and up to now are doing so. Others violently disagree. Kfor is mute on the specifics of the agreement.

Isn't there anyone writing here who actually knows for sure and can clarify? (slightly more relevant in current conditions than the question of who allegedly lived or ruled in this area 1000s of years ago, though it is ninteresting from an academic point of view)

By belive is that it got burned down by the occupíers as the romans,serbs and ottomans. How come Dardanians lived there for thousand of years and there is no sign of them anywhere?? Maybee it means that their hertige got burned down and ruined by romans and serbs??
(Njeri, 18 August 2011 23:19)

This sounds somewhat like a conspiracy theory... "Tokyo was always Serbian - just the goddam Japanese did burn down and ruined all the Serbian heritage in Japan".

Of course the next thing to explain: how come there are so little signs of fighting and destruction in the area... so the way these mean Greeks / Romans / Huns/ Avars / Serbs acted was really wicked: they not only methodically destroyed all the Dardanian heritage, they even destroyed every evidence of the destruction. That place should be really special as they did behave much simpler in other places.

There is much simpler explanation: there was no Dardanian heritage in Kosovo ever. So nothing really was to destroy.

Whom will Albanians blame that they "somehow" forgot how to sail? Because Illyrians - like Dalmatians now - were all about high seas and sea piracy. Albanian pirates did not appear until Ottoman empire. You can say, Albanians waited to re-appear not only from the mainland but also from the high seas for a good 1000 - 1500 years. That is quite a time frame...

Skifteri - what you say is largely correct. I agree with you.
There were different tribes, they lived rather simple life in the mountains and had much quarrel - but no empire. They constantly harassed Greek, Roman, Bizantine, Slavic settlers and were harassed in return. They can be regarded as autochon - but their connection to Thracians or Illyrians is not direct.

There is a speculation that they are closely related to Vlachs (Romanians) who migrated to Carpathian basin from Western Balkans around the 13th century.

There was probably some increase of population for some reason or maybe some other thing like the usual plague outbreak or maybe it was some positive factor - we never will know. It is how Vlachs appeared... and it is how the ever-present mountain tribes became more visible.

There is no serious argument against that Albanians were present in the area since thousands of years. What I say is that they lived on the periphery, in mountainous area and were the underdogs of every empire or kingdom... Illyrian and Thracian included.

The right to have a good life today maynot be denied to Vlacho-Albanians, but they should not come up with the Daco-Roman and Illyrian-Albanian nonsense.

Who else but american occupiers. KiM was Serbian before america even existed. Now these occupiers are trying to teach us some kind of lessons. They are responsible for all the problems and suffering!
(Ratko, 18 August 2011 15:41) ........... DUDE were r u getting those information from Serbiana .com ??? lol every well educated serbian know's serbs or slavic arrive in ballkans in 7 century because they read and learn reality not like u and most other's brain washed with hate...even history can't tell yet how old is albanian nation or they language...even christ,muhammed,buda and who ellse didnt come to life yet when albanians exist...LOL google it don't be scared...to find the truth about you'r people...

@Skifteri:

"Who said Albanians were not mentioned in ancient greek times? I bet it was serbian propaganda agian."

How many times will I have to tell you I'm not Serbian? Go read some textbooks about history that weren't written by someone from the Balkans.

You're simply wrong about the Albanians having been there since the time of the ancient Greeks. The ancient texts are very specific about the origins of the Albanians.

It's not my problem you have issues about the history of your people... grow up.

Almost sounds like you defeated your own assertions, no documented Albanian migration into the Balkans, because Albanians didnt document. Must have come from somewhere at some time in history, just that they didnt/couldnt write it down.

just a thought
______________________________

I was not refereing to Albanians writing down their own history, i was refering that since the balkan peninsula has for much of it time been under Roman occupation, they were the ones who were writing down history, just like the documentation of the beggining of south slav migration in the 6th centry was documeneted by the Romans.


I

@ noname

Who said Albanians were not mentioned in ancient greek times? I bet it was serbian propaganda agian. Remeber Illyria consisted of many tirbes, the Albani which was refered by outsiders was one of them metioned by Ptoleme the geographer of ancient greece, He mentions The city of Albanopolis in modern day entral Albania. Also in year 150 A.D. the Romans metion the tribe Albani in modern day central Albanian region. There is a gap of history that stops metioning Albanians but that does not mean that they dissapeard and then reappeard again. Maybe they werent important enough to the Romans to constantly mention their existance in the ballkans,

and also off course we came from somewhere, i believe in the out of africa theory, but i don't think its relevant to go that far in history, this is about when my ancestors decided to end their migratory journey and settle permanently in the balkans who happen to have done so way before the slavs showed up.

just google, its is even in wikipedia

BREKING NEWS

14 New countries recognised Kosovo in the last hour from caraiben CARICOM.

"The minister pointed out that Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci did not accidentally choose this moment to prevent buses from central Serbia from entering Kosovo and to begin construction of a bridge over the Sitnica River."

This man Bogdanovic is sharp! Nothing gets by him. Of course Thaci did not accidentally choose this moment. When you're independent Kosova you get to call the shots! If Thaci wants to build 10 bridges he can. If he wants to close the borders permanently he can. Serbia should change Bogdanovic's job title from "Kosova Minister" to "master of the obvious". Its crazy to think that he collects a check monthly from the state. What has he done for ANYBODY?

Njeri
It's pretty, clear, that most of the Balkans is and was Serbian!
Slav=Serb,
The word Serb is older then slav, so some thousand years ago slavs called themselves serbs and many other names like alans.sarmantians, or regional based or clan based.
But here goes the problem, since the break up of the ottoman empire and it's last days, only orthodox people where allowed to be Serbs, at the same time many people, where catholic and muslim, and so became an other ethnic group...

And now are place names like, radomire,trojak,bele,vernik,dobran,backa, brozdovec,novosele,vodice,gumenice,nivice,zemnec. pure albanian?

These pure albanian names I can find across albania.

So I can conclude, that those place names and many others are in fact Albanized Serbian/slavic former place names.

And PLS, do not come up with your Illirian fanatsy, because Hungarians/Slovens/Croats/Bosnjaks/Montenegrins/macedonians/Serbs/alabnians and even some greeks have all illirian origin and it is not exclusive albanian!

Here again an immaterial academic discussion about who lived in Kosovo 500, 5000 or 500 million years ago. According to science, it is a fact that bacteria were the first form of life to live in Kosovo (and the whole earth) a few hundred million year ago. Not sure though what you're going to use that fact for ! I hope that somebody would not suggest that Kosovo's and the whole World's homo sapiens would have to disappear to return earth back to the bacteria...

Ataman,

Serbs have been for two hundred years in Kosovo prior to the coming of Turks, and for 90 years years during the twentieth century. I would say that Balkans has been around for mare than 300 years. Wouldn't you agree? Or, does history start and end in 300 years.2zl8ye

On the premise that before now these Serbian buses have been going through Jarinje border without proper documentation such as a commercial driver's license, insurance, etc. After the reciprocal blockade KFOR is redirect all non-private voyage to other border check points where the border police is informing these companies they need to be properly documented to enter.





Thanks,

Surely you have read Noel Malcolm's book on Kosova, or is it one of the many books banned in Serbia. Go to the library at Harvard Univ. or the Nation Library in Serbia if you are allowed, and you will find plenty of evidence.
(Former Black Eagle, 18 August 2011 17:23)

Is it really worth it?

http://www.amazon.com/Kosovo-Short-History-Noel-Malcolm/product-reviews/0060977752/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar

Here is a completely unbiased view:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1DY5UCVSAK7XC/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R1DY5UCVSAK7XC

But does the book discuss the times before Sinan Pasha mosque was built?

Looks, like the history for him begins in the 16th century, precisely when the number of Albanians was something worth to mention.

In other words: an other Enver Hoxha propaganda-book in disguise. With the same success we can read the Little Red Book of Mao Zedong. Meh...

Who else but american occupiers. KiM was Serbian before america even existed. Now these occupiers are trying to teach us some kind of lessons. They are responsible for all the problems and suffering!
(Ratko, 18 August 2011 15:41)

Yeeh Ratko, you serbs have never done anything wrong. You are angels....

Kosovo has never been Serbia. You have only build some churches on somebody else's land. Kosovo was albanian before serbs even existed. And after that to. You occupied Kosovo a little period in medival time just like you have occupied it since 1912. Kosovo got to it's rightfull owners in 2008 february 17.

And Amercia support us just as Russia support you. Don't cry that our ''big brother'' are bigger than yours. Stop complaining!! I thought you were the regonal powerhouse of the Balkans ??

"Instead of just making a claim prove it? SHOW ME PROOF!
(MikeC,"

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v426/n6965/images/nature02029-f1.2.jpg

http://www.russia-talk.com/history/slavs-VIII.jpg


Dont act surprised!


As for Ataman, Je¿ albañski, kosowski i enwerski,

Nice, a Slavic wants to teach autochtones history... lol
Have you wondered why all you have name tags like IC SKI and OS? Or why you cant be a nationality with out the Orthodox?

"“There were some problems in the beginning, but goods up to 3.5 tons pass through on a daily basis now. If the government determines that the agreement is being violated, Serbs will reintroduce barricades at the crossings,” the minister for Kosovo pointed out."

Ok great, reintroduce the barricades so that not even goods up tp 3.5 tons can pass :)

I cannot believe that people like him still run a country in Europe. How can he spread lies as such? I do hope that the Serbian population will give the right answer to the problems in the Balkans and ask its own government to move away from the past and leave Bosnia and Herzegovia and Kosovo alone, and focus on the everyday problems of citizens of Serbia. It is a disgrace to see a so called "democratic" government cause these problems in Europe after so many years of bloody wars in that region!

"Kosovo was albanian before serbs even existed."
Njeri

Instead of just making a claim prove it? Prove to readers at this forum that albanians were in Kosovo before the serbs? You must have something other then just empty words to prove that Kosovo was inhabited by albanians before anyone else? The fact is you have nothing to suggest that that is the case. Any culture would have built some buildings or living areas that would remain for the comming generations to see. However, albanians base their history on made up stories instead of facts. SHOW ME PROOF!

Who else but american occupiers. KiM was Serbian before america even existed. Now these occupiers are trying to teach us some kind of lessons. They are responsible for all the problems and suffering!

However, albanians base their history on made up stories instead of facts. SHOW ME PROOF!
(MikeC, 18 August 2011 16:49)

MikeC,

Surely you have read Noel Malcolm's book on Kosova, or is it one of the many books banned in Serbia. Go to the library at Harvard Univ. or the Nation Library in Serbia if you are allowed, and you will find plenty of evidence.

Thaci and the americans want to create a concentration camp for serbs in the north where they can be managed. The albanians will never change and will have to beg from more money from the gulf states and Turkey who will be able to buy them quite cheaply. It is a pity as the US is running out of time to reform itself before it collapses and the albanians will remain in Thaci's perpetual narco-territory regularly paid off by europe to not attack anything non albanian.

SHOW ME PROOF!
(MikeC, 18 August 2011 16:49)

Would you accept some writings of Comrade Enver Hoxha in lieu of other documents?

This is a critical period, and these thugs in pristina will do whatever it takes to steal the north. However, their patience isn't going to be unlimited. The more resources expended in attempt to appropriate the north, and the longer it takes, the Albanians will become increasingly frustrated. This frustration will likely cause an irrational reaction which in turn will jeopardize their plans. Keeping a solid stance will do no more than frustrate the Albanians. Do not change plans, no matter what. They will not attack as has already been proven. For all their might (actually it's the US and NATO's might), they couldn't prevent a rag tag group of peaceful civilians from barricading the roads. Thank goodness for advances in the internet and communication. Otherwise, if this were the 1990's who knows what would have been. Today, the evil doers (as Bush used to call the unethical thugs), cannot get away with their thugery, as the world has eyes and is watching them. So, don't fear anything my Serb brothers and sisters for you are protected and in the end the north will be kept Serb. Foolish people (Albanians and their supporters) are irrational and will eventually crack. Rational people (Serbs and their supporters) will be able to stand up to this pressure, as we have already seen and will continue to see.

"Go to the library at Harvard Univ. or the Nation Library in Serbia if you are allowed, and you will find plenty of evidence."

Former Black Eagle

Never heard of Noel Malcom. Have you?
So all I have to do is go from my home in Malmoe, Sweden, and travel to the US of A and/or Serbia to find proof of albanian history in Kosovo. And silly me thougt is was widely know that albanians were the indigenous people of Kosovo and that that iformation could be found everywhere. If this was 50 years ago then ok but surely there must be one webpage that has the same info as these books?

My question is: is there a neutral internet source that writes about albanians in pre-Serb Kosovo???

as you Serbs would say: lupnuo je i ostao ziv. :)

Kosovo was albanian before serbs even existed.
(Njeri, 18 August 2011 16:20)

Before the 13th century Albanians had no written history and the first proof of their cultural existence are the churches built by Muzaka family in Kastoria. Which is about a day and half drive from Kosovo.

Building anything larger than a shed requires certain experience and claiming a country or empire means that these countries / empires have strong enough leaders who managed these.

If a leader is strong enough to claim a large enough territory - he always supports his claim by erecting nice buildings. The stronger the leader, the more elaborate is the building.

So far: the very first building in Kosovo which was sponsored by someone, who can be regarded as Albanian is the Sinan Pasha mosque in Prizren - and the material used to build it according the legend - was a destroyed near-by monastery. That legend is maybe not correct, but there is nothing in Kosovo what was sponsored by an Albanian overlord before Ottoman period.

Period.

ugotServed

What the heck was that? Links to charts that show what?
If that is all you can find then you just proved albanians are as new to Kosovo as europeans are to Australia. You should be ashamed for stealing someone elses land.

Ataman,

Serbs have been for two hundred years in Kosovo prior to the coming of Turks, and for 90 years years during the twentieth century. I would say that Balkans has been around for mare than 300 years. Wouldn't you agree? Or, does history start and end in 300 years.2zl8ye
(Bill, 18 August 2011 20:06)

Slavic presence in Kosovo was from 6th - 7th century. Before that Greeks, Romans, Huns, Avars did settle and mixed with the Celtic, Thracian, Illyrian (and many other) tribes.

That did not made them "Albanian". The only sign of Albanian presence was a permanent military detachment of whatever empire got the upper hand to protect the villagers from plunder and rapine - done by mountaineers on regular basis. There you go... they were the ancestors of Albanians. This is well-recorded in Roman and Byzantine sources.

And now are place names like, radomire,trojak,bele,vernik,dobran,backa, brozdovec,novosele,vodice,gumenice,nivice,zemnec. pure albanian?

(mick, 18 August 2011 19:30)

And how about Pogradec in Albania... pure Illyrian name... LOL.
We are telling a blind who mentally suffers from that fact and imagines himself being a seer - that he is a blind person.

No argument is enough, they are obsessed with their own greatness precisely because they know how much that "greatness" is worth. It is far beyond even the Daco-Roman madness.

The truth is Illyrians were not culturally developed to have an alphabet for writings to leave behind.


Is there any Albanian migration into the Balkans documented? Absoulutly no document exist.

(Skifteri, 18 August 2011 21:40)

Almost sounds like you defeated your own assertions, no documented Albanian migration into the Balkans, because Albanians didnt document. Must have come from somewhere at some time in history, just that they didnt/couldnt write it down.

just a thought

Serbs were in Kosovo way before just 200 years before the Turks. The city of Gordoservon, founded in 680, which is now situated in modern day Turkey was made up of Serbs who had previously lived along the Vardar river in today's Macedonia.
It was 20-30,000 Serb soldiers from the Vardar area who went to found Gordoservon all the way back in 680.

You can bet if Serbs (and adult male soldiers only) were as numerous as 30,000 from Vardar, that their entire population was many times higher and if they were in that area, they'd most likely be already in the Kosovo area too.

And this shows why it was foolish to allow the reopening of the U.S. Embassy in Serbia because it serves to spy on and harm Serbia and Serbia hasn't any positive by reopening certain EU countries embassies in order to help their country. That was the reason for reopening after that phony temporary show of closing them after the recognition of Kosovo (and right after Tadic was reelected - Serbs should remember that: voting the way EU wants means the EU can bully Serbs and get what it wants too so they will continue to do that), was that the Serbian government could help their country diplomatically by doing that. But it didn't and doesn't work.

Noel Malcolm, former/President of the Anglo-Albanian Association. Hardly a neutral source.

By belive is that it got burned down by the occupíers as the romans,serbs and ottomans. How come Dardanians lived there for thousand of years and there is no sign of them anywhere?? Maybee it means that their hertige got burned down and ruined by romans and serbs??
(Njeri, 18 August 2011 23:19)

This sounds somewhat like a conspiracy theory... "Tokyo was always Serbian - just the goddam Japanese did burn down and ruined all the Serbian heritage in Japan".

Of course the next thing to explain: how come there are so little signs of fighting and destruction in the area... so the way these mean Greeks / Romans / Huns/ Avars / Serbs acted was really wicked: they not only methodically destroyed all the Dardanian heritage, they even destroyed every evidence of the destruction. That place should be really special as they did behave much simpler in other places.

There is much simpler explanation: there was no Dardanian heritage in Kosovo ever. So nothing really was to destroy.

Whom will Albanians blame that they "somehow" forgot how to sail? Because Illyrians - like Dalmatians now - were all about high seas and sea piracy. Albanian pirates did not appear until Ottoman empire. You can say, Albanians waited to re-appear not only from the mainland but also from the high seas for a good 1000 - 1500 years. That is quite a time frame...

Could there be an article about on which bases Kosovo authorities prevented Serbian buses entering Kosovo? Without this knowledge this is just dull, pointless and unintelligent chewing of the matter.

BREKING NEWS

14 New countries recognised Kosovo in the last hour from caraiben CARICOM.
(Mendo, 18 August 2011 19:10)

Yeah, yeah, if it's true than some - like Belize - did recognize Kosovo the second time, first time they did was August 7, 2008. I still stand by my words regarding the meaning of "bought" recognitions.

I wrote a very long and good response to MikeC but B92 diden't publish it. I am sorry MikeC that you diden't got my answer. It was pure fact that albanians were in Kosovo before serbs and have allways been a majority in Kosovo. I dont know why B92 decided not to publish it since it was nothing against anybody but only fact. But I guess it was to much...

If B92 allowes me I am going to give you a couple of questions. If serbs came to the Balkans in 7 th century how come Kosovo is the cradle of serb civilization when serbs occupyed Kosovo in the 13 th century? And they occupyed Kosovo for only 250 years. The ottomans occupyed Kosovo for 500 years. So Kosovo belongs more to Turkey than to Serbia since ottoman Turkey occupyed it for a more longer time?? Do you mean that?

As for no albanian hertige in Kosovo. By belive is that it got burned down by the occupíers as the romans,serbs and ottomans. How come Dardanians lived there for thousand of years and there is no sign of them anywhere?? Maybee it means that their hertige got burned down and ruined by romans and serbs??

I will gvie one for starter : Decani Monastery.
(Agim Kelmendi, 19 August 2011 07:47)

Wrong. Name the Albanian ruler who sponsored it - not a monk from Trogir who is RUMORED to be Albanian and is RUMORED to be one of the many designers.

Skifteri - what you say is largely correct. I agree with you.
There were different tribes, they lived rather simple life in the mountains and had much quarrel - but no empire. They constantly harassed Greek, Roman, Bizantine, Slavic settlers and were harassed in return. They can be regarded as autochon - but their connection to Thracians or Illyrians is not direct.

There is a speculation that they are closely related to Vlachs (Romanians) who migrated to Carpathian basin from Western Balkans around the 13th century.

There was probably some increase of population for some reason or maybe some other thing like the usual plague outbreak or maybe it was some positive factor - we never will know. It is how Vlachs appeared... and it is how the ever-present mountain tribes became more visible.

There is no serious argument against that Albanians were present in the area since thousands of years. What I say is that they lived on the periphery, in mountainous area and were the underdogs of every empire or kingdom... Illyrian and Thracian included.

The right to have a good life today maynot be denied to Vlacho-Albanians, but they should not come up with the Daco-Roman and Illyrian-Albanian nonsense.

Surely you have read Noel Malcolm's book on Kosova, or is it one of the many books banned in Serbia. Go to the library at Harvard Univ. or the Nation Library in Serbia if you are allowed, and you will find plenty of evidence.
(Former Black Eagle, 18 August 2011 17:23)

By the way: it is not BANNED in Serbia. Anyone who has a credit card can order it and it will come trough.
It is, however, not sold in most bookstores in the area.

To say it's being "banned" is pretty over-statement, I could say the same book is "banned" in most countries in the world, USA included because it is rarely sold in most stores, you have to order it from Amazon.

Given the reviews the book is not worth the money and efforts to order it: very much political book. And it does not answer the question I asked.

Again: name one single building in Kosovo which was sponsored by Albanian overlord before 16th century.

That’s a strong accusation Mr. Bogdanovic, especially accusing US. I can’t wait for US’s reaction tomorrow and having your President backtrack and apologize for what you are saying. Don’t forget most of the foreign money/aod to Serbia comes from US…

Ah yes yes, the show me the proof mikec says

Since the Ilirians were divided into numerous tribes along what used to be jugoslavia and still is modern Albania made it easy prey for remaining constantly on foreign occupation never getting a chance to fully develop culturaly and unify as the greeks did, ( greek culture developed before Roman occupation) we Albanians didnt even have an alphabet until the congress of Manastir, now this mikec guys wants proof, use ur head and read books form relevant authors
not serbian propaganda sites if u indeed seek proof.

The truth is Illyrians were not culturally developed to have an alphabet for writings to leave behind. Even early Albanian books were either in greek or latin and was in late period compared to other nations in the region. Old monumenst were built by the occupying forces of the Ancient Romans, so no Illyrian monuments exists since they were occupied from foreigner, Historians describe life in ancient Iliria as constant warefare among themselvs even before roman invasion. (don't remeber quote read illyrian history by the establish respected internacional encyclopedias)


Our ancestors did indeed pass on their proven indo-european language ORALY. Shqip is spoken in Albania only. Where is slvic spoken? Russia,Poland,Ukraine,Belarus,Slovakia,all former jugosllav republics, The south slav migration is doctmented in the history books. At 6th centry AD migrations of south slavs corossed into the Balkans, and assimilated all of indigenious tribes except for south Illyrian tribes who surprisingly maintained thier traditions and language. Is there any Albanian migration into the Balkans documented? Absoulutly no document exist.

For a serb to claim indigenious over Albanian is like European Americans claiming to be the first nations of North American continent. The Aboriginals did not write down their history aswell
but they were not under foerign occupation limiting them from
expressing their culture through monuments until, The European colonization of North America took place. So even though they had no writings they had physical monuments way before European colonization.

serbs, it would be wise not to use the we were here first argument because serbs cannot possibly back it up, you could use it
but you will not be taken seriously just like FYR macedonia whith regards to its claim to ancient Hellenic Macedonian dynasty.

Instead, it would be wise to stick to the might makes right argument, thats how the world has always functioned, but since Albanians have the upper hand in the might makes right which the serbs are not used to especially coming from the Albanians, I sense a desperate attempt form serbs to portary themselvs as victims when they use their churces as arguments for being there first. On the contrary for much of the history in the Balkans its the Albanians who have been the victims, surving assimilation form The Romans, Byzantine, Ottoman, and south
slav empires who have swept through and leavig their mark on what remains of little modern day Albania.

Dude..your eating to much mushrooms...!!

ethnic cleansing legalized by the US

"“There were some problems in the beginning, but goods up to 3.5 tons pass through on a daily basis now. If the government determines that the agreement is being violated, Serbs will reintroduce barricades at the crossings,” the minister for Kosovo pointed out."

Ok great, reintroduce the barricades so that not even goods up tp 3.5 tons can pass :)
(icj1, 18 August 2011 16:31)"

These assertions and counter-assertions have been going on for weeks. All along, Serb ngotiators have been saying that goods in trucks of up to 3.5 tons can pass through, but not bigger trucks. Albanians have been saying no goods at all can come through, and "under 3.5 tons" only refers to humanitarian aid. Here, in responding to Bogdanovic, icj1, apparently an Albanian supporter, seems to be agreeing with him that goods in under-3.5 ton trucks can pass through, and up to now are doing so. Others violently disagree. Kfor is mute on the specifics of the agreement.

Isn't there anyone writing here who actually knows for sure and can clarify? (slightly more relevant in current conditions than the question of who allegedly lived or ruled in this area 1000s of years ago, though it is ninteresting from an academic point of view)

@Daniel,

Dude, you do have scary comments. Personally I think you are not 'Taman' as they say in Balkans, and should be monitored by anti-terrorist agency, as looks like there is a chance you may turn one, although you may not know it yet! You seem to hold a lot of anger, and in your head are making 'plans' for something you have no control of

I will gvie one for starter : Decani Monastery.
(Agim Kelmendi, 19 August 2011 07:47)

Since my last answer to you was an ex-cathedra and it does not count, here is something what can be regarded as impartial - from Unesco and not some Serbian source you would question:

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/724

"The Dečani monastic church is the endowment and mausoleum of Serbian King Stefan Dečanski. The original founding charter from 1330 has been preserved. The construction lasted 8 years (1327-1335), and the master builder was Fra Vita, a Franciscan from Kotor."

Obviously anything you can use is related to Father Vita from Kotor - the endowment being firmly Serbian.

So in bigger detail.

1) This is precisely what I said. Father Vita could be Albanian - but there was not a single Albanian ruler in the area who even remotely could be compared with King Stefan Dečanski.

2) In any reference you can found Fra Vita is mentioned as "belonging to a MINORITY from the city of Kotor".

References:

http://www.dobrota.edu.me/English/Kotoreng.htm (Official Montenegrin source)
http://repository.upenn.edu/dissertations/AAI9427594 (from University of Pennsilvania)

I do not see how all this would support a theory of significant Albanian population in Kosovo i Metohija in the 13th-14th centuries.

Yes, he COULD be Albanian. That's all. It does not prove anything you claim.

Again: name one single building in Kosovo which was sponsored by Albanian overlord before 16th century.
(Ataman, 18 August 2011 20:22)

I will gvie one for starter : Decani Monastery.

@MikeC

Dude, seriosully, your comment sounds like 'earth is flat, if you think it isn't SHOW ME PROOF.

Relax man, just read up on Illyrians and that's it. Go now, read, relax and enlighten your soul and mind.

Given the reviews the book is not worth the money and efforts to order it: very much political book. And it does not answer the question I asked.
Again: name one single building in Kosovo which was sponsored by Albanian overlord before 16th century.
(Ataman, 18 August 2011 20:22)

The reviews give it a combined 4.5 out of 5 stars. Now, this is not bad given the fact that anyone can write a review about anything - just as it happens in this forum everyday. Maybe you chose to read only the one star reviews which make up a minority.
I have read the book and found it immensely insightful and extremely well researched. The author goes out of his way in order to not offend anybody and if anybody needs proofs or answers this book has them for you.
It is a highly recommended read for Serbs, Albanians and anyone interested the history of the area. If you don't feel like spending money buying it you should be able to find it in public libraries.

If you don't feel like spending money buying it you should be able to find it in public libraries.
(Mini Giraffe, 19 August 2011 18:22)

OK, deal - if I find it in the library here (Hungary) I will read it. Well could be, the book is available only in the library of the U.S. or British Embassy. But FYI: I did read reviews from both sides and the neutrality of the author is under question. Regardless - I do not see he does review the 500 B.C. - 1200 A.D. period. Or does he?

While I don't doubt for a moment that the Albanians are continuously trying to expel what few Serbs are left alive in Kosovo, I doubt that the US has any involvement in that. The USA is notoriously moronic when it comes to ethnic conflicts, it's as if their own troubles with race relations in the US has lobotomized them on the subject.

As for the Albanian history in the Balkans, they were a tribe that immigrated to the region from the Caucasus. Although it's very probable that they intermarried with the indigenous population that lived there (just like any of the other tribes that migrated to the Balkans), that doesn't change the fact that the Albanian people's origin was from another region. This doesn't mean that they have no right to live in the Balkans (after all, everyone but the Greeks moved into the region a little over a thousand years ago), but it also doesn't give them the right to claim land that is historically that of other peoples.

@ noname

Who said Albanians were not mentioned in ancient greek times? I bet it was serbian propaganda agian. Remeber Illyria consisted of many tirbes, the Albani which was refered by outsiders was one of them metioned by Ptoleme the geographer of ancient greece, He mentions The city of Albanopolis in modern day entral Albania. Also in year 150 A.D. the Romans metion the tribe Albani in modern day central Albanian region. There is a gap of history that stops metioning Albanians but that does not mean that they dissapeard and then reappeard again. Maybe they werent important enough to the Romans to constantly mention their existance in the ballkans,

and also off course we came from somewhere, i believe in the out of africa theory, but i don't think its relevant to go that far in history, this is about when my ancestors decided to end their migratory journey and settle permanently in the balkans who happen to have done so way before the slavs showed up.

just google, its is even in wikipedia

Isn't there anyone writing here who actually knows for sure and can clarify?
(DimTuc, 19 August 2011 02:33)

DimTuc,

http://www.nato.int/kfor/docu/pr/pr2011.htm

Check the 3 August press release, Nothing Hill Agreement Drafted.

These assertions and counter-assertions have been going on for weeks. All along, Serb ngotiators have been saying that goods in trucks of up to 3.5 tons can pass through, but not bigger trucks. Albanians have been saying no goods at all can come through, and "under 3.5 tons" only refers to humanitarian aid. Here, in responding to Bogdanovic, icj1, apparently an Albanian supporter, seems to be agreeing with him that goods in under-3.5 ton trucks can pass through
(DimTuc, 19 August 2011 02:33)

I did not agree or disagree about that (not that anybody would care anyway - it's not me who decides that). I was just citing the news article.



and up to now are doing so. Others violently disagree. Kfor is mute on the specifics of the agreement.
(DimTuc, 19 August 2011 02:33)

Dude, don't you get it that there is no agreement at all and KFOR decides who enters and who doesn't in accordance with the decisions of the Kosovo government. "The agreement" was just for Serbia's internal consumpution...



Isn't there anyone writing here who actually knows for sure and can clarify? (slightly more relevant in current conditions than the question of who allegedly lived or ruled in this area 1000s of years ago, though it is ninteresting from an academic point of view)
(DimTuc, 19 August 2011 02:33)

Why do you want to know for sure ? You have a vehicle and want to enter Kosovo ?!

Who else but american occupiers. KiM was Serbian before america even existed. Now these occupiers are trying to teach us some kind of lessons. They are responsible for all the problems and suffering!
(Ratko, 18 August 2011 15:41) ........... DUDE were r u getting those information from Serbiana .com ??? lol every well educated serbian know's serbs or slavic arrive in ballkans in 7 century because they read and learn reality not like u and most other's brain washed with hate...even history can't tell yet how old is albanian nation or they language...even christ,muhammed,buda and who ellse didnt come to life yet when albanians exist...LOL google it don't be scared...to find the truth about you'r people...

Almost sounds like you defeated your own assertions, no documented Albanian migration into the Balkans, because Albanians didnt document. Must have come from somewhere at some time in history, just that they didnt/couldnt write it down.

just a thought
______________________________

I was not refereing to Albanians writing down their own history, i was refering that since the balkan peninsula has for much of it time been under Roman occupation, they were the ones who were writing down history, just like the documentation of the beggining of south slav migration in the 6th centry was documeneted by the Romans.


I

As for the Albanian history in the Balkans, they were a tribe that immigrated to the region from the Caucasus. Although it's very probable that they intermarried with the indigenous population that lived there (just like any of the other tribes that migrated to the Balkans), that doesn't change the fact that the Albanian people's origin was from another region. This doesn't mean that they have no right to live in the Balkans (after all, everyone but the Greeks moved into the region a little over a thousand years ago), but it also doesn't give them the right to claim land that is historically that of other peoples.
(noname, 20 August 2011 10:
____________


Albanians came from caucasus? since when? a date please would be useul

actually just dont bother u'd be wasting your own time, theres in no dated migration

the barbarians that invaded in the middle ages dominated the balkans indigeneous peoples, the invading albanians from caucasus got dominated by the illyrians and made them learn their language before the salvs absorbed them is what noname is basically refering to.

thats same great work man you really figured out how the Albanians came to learn the oldest spoken language in europe.

The Albanian language is proven to be Indo-European not caucasian. They do not mention that in serbian propaganda sites i guess.

@Skifteri:

"Albanians came from caucasus? since when? a date please would be useul"

There isn't any mention of Albanians in the Balkans prior to the 11th century in any Byzantine, Greek, or other texts. There aren't any Albanian place-names in the Balkans that predate the 11th century. If Albanians were present since the times times of the ancient Greeks, there would not only be place-names of Albanian linguistic origin but neighboring languages would have more words in common, and their presence would certainly have been noted. The earliest mention of Albanians was when Georgius Maniakos procured Albanian soldiers to fight for Byzantium in 1042. It was after this that these Albanians settled in the region.

The argument that the Caucasus has non-Indo-European linguistic groups, ruling out this region as the Albanian homeland, is weak in my opinion. After all, Iran and India have Indo-European-speaking peoples, and they are surrounded by dissimilar linguistic groups.

We shouldn't care what propagandists of any side say, it's verifiable facts that should win the day. fwiw I'm not Serbian.

Last but not least, there isn't any reason to be embarrassed or angry at the fact that some very, very, very distant ancestors of yours or mine came from somewhere else. Everyone's ancestor came from some place else if you go far back enough in time. Like I wrote before, the fact that the Albanians (just like the other tribes in the region) migrated to the Balkans does not mean that they don't have a right to live there. It does not, however, entitle them (or any other group) to lay claim to either territory or history that isn't theirs.

It is far beyond even the Daco-Roman madness.
(Ataman, 18 August 2011 22:13)

Is Daco-Roman your latest obsession? What has happened to Basta?

@Skifteri:

"Who said Albanians were not mentioned in ancient greek times? I bet it was serbian propaganda agian."

How many times will I have to tell you I'm not Serbian? Go read some textbooks about history that weren't written by someone from the Balkans.

You're simply wrong about the Albanians having been there since the time of the ancient Greeks. The ancient texts are very specific about the origins of the Albanians.

It's not my problem you have issues about the history of your people... grow up.