Three dead as riots in Britain continue

"Edinburgh and Cardiff have Albanian communities according to The Independent, how come we haven't had rioting and looting there?"

Ian, UK

That's because the albanians there are all currently serving time for human trafficing and drug trade. However, when they get out you better duck.

If they are young enough to do crime they are not too young to be sent to prison for the crime they do
(nickole, 10 August 2011 12:42)

This is exactly what Cameron said yesterday on TV. But if this is the depth of his thoughts on the riots perhaps he should have stayed on lake Guarda in Italy and continued his holidays.I think people in Britain finally came to the conclusion that this man was never fit for the job.He's also no brave enough to do the right thing and fall on his sword.

Ian..-Yorkshire ,seems to be the only peaceful riot free place...
you are very lucky! There is not many Albanians thats why.I live in Croydon,(full with albanians)and u can see what happened here!

All western countries with these kind of problems got what they deserve. The west is sticking its nose everywhere, rewriting maps, killing innocent people, for oil or other personal objectives, and basically forcing non-westerners to be their slaves. Impoverish a country as much as possible, make them dependant on aid and then you will control them. Economic crisis in America and riots in England. I hope they spread to the rest of the "civilized world". Hope you burn to the ground you hypocrits.

This will go on for weeks...and then endlessly restart... because your weak country is full of unarmed and silly sheep. The UK is a liberal secular multicultural place whose "citizens" are no longer welcome on this site to blabber on like fools about the joys of "diversity", the "EU", "tolerance", "secularism" etc. Your diseased society is burning down and you can't hide it. Bully for the unarmed Asians who died like men trying to protect their property in Birmingham last night.You must be so proud citizens cannot own guns to protect themselves. Today your pathetic PM thundered he would approve WATER CANNONS! Oh my!!! What terror!!! Putin and the Russian militia would have ended this in an hour. Armed Americans in fifteen minutes.

I am expressis grave concern regarding the brutal crackdown in London.
NATO should intervene at once and its member nations should recognize the Yob Mob as the legitimate representatives of the British people!

london should remove all coats jumpers with hoods or cut them off because these criminals are not brought to justice and they should be what ever the age... If they are young enough to do crime they are not too young to be sent to prison for the crime they do

Yet more gangs getting together to basically loot shops.

Having lived in the part of Salford where some of this happened when I was a student, I know that an element of the locals behave like this as routine. Most nights sirens went through the night as youths set fire to stuff, chucked rocks at cars and property and .

Fourtunately most people are seeing this for the criminal activity that it is, and there are few of the bleeding heart liberal types who say society is to blame for "excluding" these people. They have excluded themselves as they don't want to work or contribute anything. Lazy, selfish, scum.

London is now under control and the rest will follow. Hopefully most of these scumbags will be tracked down.

Scotland should bolt the union before the mayhem spreads to there!

Lets keep the reactionary bile down to a minimum shall we?

I don't think making laws about what people should wear, bringing in the army or any other draconian nonsense that infringes civil liberties should be brought in. Some of us know that once this kind of thing is brought in its very hard to get rid of it. Bin Laden is dead, has anti civil liberties legislation by world governments been repealled since then? Has it hell!

Carrying guns to protect ourselves Leo - what nonsense. Imagine if those criminals had guns 'to protect themselves'. It could be a civil war by now, if there is anything people in the UK are united about its the fact they are happy that gunshots have barely been fired by anybody since the riots began.

It will soon be time to start the real debate - why this happened in the first place. If the politicians and the Daily Hate allow an adult discussion that is. Unemployment, poverty, lack of investment, police conduct.

In the last few years the media has programmed the British to agree to cuts, cuts, cuts. Like zombies everybody agrees to it, whilst the government spends billions on bailing out banks and funding wars abroad.

Do they cut the wars? Do they cut bankers bonuses? Do they cut out bailing out the rich? No. Where do they cut? They cut into social programmes of the poor, they cut jobs, they cut hospitals, they cut education grants, they cut libraries, they cut youth centres, they cut our liberties.

Time to debate the gap between rich and poor, time to debate our priorities. Yeah the Daily Mail and Sun readers will never care about anybody but themselves and they are too stupid to understand cause and effect, but that doesn't mean the more educated part of society can't have a debate and put pressure on government to act.

Yorkshire where I live seems to be the only peaceful riot-free place left in England. I wonder how long it will take before the rioting and looting spreads to Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield and Hull? It is quite surprising considering these are normally hotspots for riots.

This is just a repeat of the 1981 riots in England and these rioters will achieve nothing. The police will catch these criminals. Some of the idiots have even put videos of themselves looting on Youtube. Wait until the police see that. There is so much CCTV in the UK, people will get caught. 300 people were arrested after the Bradford riots in 2001 and technology has improved since then such as digital facial recognition. So many people think that they won't get caught and that they can get away with it. Well wait until the Police come knocking at your doors, because it will happen!

Ian..-Yorkshire ,seems to be the only peaceful riot free place...
you are very lucky! There is not many Albanians thats why.I live in Croydon,(full with albanians)and u can see what happened here!
(Dragan, 10 August 2011 14:07)

That is actually ridiculous!
You're blaming these riots on Albanians?
I forgot there were Albanians in Greater Manchester, Merseyside, Bristol, West Midlands, Kent, Leicester, Nottingham, Oxford, Reading, Portsmouth etc. All of which have experienced rioting and looting.
I'm guessing them two lads who were arrested for trying to organise riots in Glasgow and Dundee were Albanian too?
Edinburgh and Cardiff have Albanian communities according to The Independent, how come we haven't had rioting and looting there?
Keep your silly comments to yourself.

The 'civillized east' should immediately recognize the protesting civillians as the legitimate government of UK. The UK is undermining the democratic rights and freedom of their own people. cameron has lost all legitimacy and must immediately step down. The 'civillized east' should orrganize a military attack on UK in order to protect the civillians. And they should arm the peaceful protesters so they can defend themselves against the tyrant dictator UK government.

First, The Chinese should send in their new aircraft carrier in order to enforce a no fly zone over the UK and begin the bombing of all military, police and media transmitter as legitimate targets. The UN should freeze all assets of the the current oppressive govt and recognize the fighting freedom fighters who are battling armed police with bare hands and flower petals. Finally, a war crimes tribunal must be appointed in order to investigate allegations of mass murder, rape, and ethnic cleansing by the current stongman David Cameron and his regime. This criminal enterprise must not be allowed to succeed in the heart of Europe. Scotland must now act and declare independence.

"The 'civillized east' should immediately recognize the protesting civillians as the legitimate government of UK. The UK is undermining the democratic rights and freedom of their own people. cameron has lost all legitimacy and must immediately step down.
(Ratko, 10 August 2011 17:19)

Yes! 100%agree! Unbelievable that the UK sent their army with tanks and aircraft killing and bombing some 100s of these millions of protestors who only fight for more democracy, with strictly peaceful means, isn't it? The UN must immediately condemn this behaviour!

Wee Kapie can't agree with you that things happen for no reason. I mean philosophically speaking you might be correct, everything is pretty meaningless, but there are specific, logical reasons why people behave the way they do.

Humankind has specific ways of tapping into knowing how people are going to behave if exposed to one thing or another - its called advertising! And it apparantly works. You sound as if you are not interested in knowing why, or perhaps you are delibarately closing your eyes to that. Do you at least accept that prevention is better than cure? You would prefer to prevent this happening rather than putting people in jail and hoping for the best - unless you are an advocate of the prison works philosophy. Surely those 'believers' have been bebunked by now!

How do I explain a schoolgirl saying she's getting her taxes back? She is incapable of expressing herself, what she is really saying is 'I'm getting my bailout'. In other words, do you really think that if the hundreds of millions of pounds that have been spent on propping up the banks had been spent on helping the socially disadvantaged they would be robbing and stealing?

Stupid and impoverished people do not know how to express themselves, god knows most richer people don't. Look if you walk through the old cardboard city and see some man in a suit yell 'get a job, you lazy git', what do you think is really going on?

Tell you what I see. I see somebody feeling guilty about something and then expressing their guilt through anger upon said beggar. Pitiful really - emotionally retarded.

People do not mean what they say. Hell there are sadly a lot of really stupid people around. Now you ain't, but you have got to realise that there are plenty more angry, stupid people around supporting the view that this 'scum' deserves what they get. The stupid are not interested in prevention, they want vengence. If those people get their way nothing gets solved, it gets swept under the carpet.

No I really think it is a matter of intelligence of one kind or another, therefore my advice to you is to keep thinking about it, as you say, calmly and rationally.

Having heard Cameron's speech it is as clear as crystal that he understands nothing and seems completely out of touch.

I did not start ,i just gave a answer on Roberto-Tung comments that Serbian people doing riot in London,and everything else i said efter that is pure truth ,so dont get upset,is not antialbanian propaganda,is just simply TRUTH.

The *real* revolution is on its way. The signs are loud and clear. The apple still looks polished but is rotten to the core. Look beneath the surface and it's all pretty ugly. The greedy hypocrites will soon learn what their nature brings. Like attracts like. This is the law of attraction. Spread hatred, destruction and violence and it will come knocking on your door.

Watch and think about it. Does it make sense?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlvptpI3DtA&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_406260

Leonidas Over the years whilst contributing to B92 you have appeared to voice some sound observations, in most cases with relevant supporting evidence. Occasionally you just sprout pure nonsense, probably because (and this is my observation) you are just Confrontational and argumentative.

The events in the UK over the last several days fit the latter.

These feral kids that have rampaged thru a number of UK cities are just that, lawless, fearful, illiterate and greedy. No ammonunt of soft soaping by the cuddly left will justify there actions. It was not political, and it certainly was not a protest against current government legislation, (christ above, some that have been interviewed do not even know what party is in governemnt!) I said before that these events will provide a wonderful platform for those that feel they have the answer.
Read and Digest the contributions from the Brits on this site, the theme is basically the same, does that give you a clue. Then spend more time on the relevant sites that are reporting, see a pattern evolving?

To the contributor that suggested the 'murder of innocent black man' was the cause, pish! As I mentioned on earlier links, when the police target particular gangs it is for good reason, the police never claimed that shots were fired, admitted that only two shots were fired by police, but in typical britpol fashion chose to keep their mouths shut in anticipation of the investigation and allowed a media flurry to mislead and confuse.

Guys (and Gals) take a step back, deep breath and look beyond the dots :-))
(Wee Kelpie, 11 August 2011 12:02)

Unfortunately rightwing bigots readers of the reliable Murdoch press express the views that you do,that is the riots are solely due to criminal elements in UK with no underlying causes.On the other hand people like me are looking to find the reasons behind the riots which in my view are a lot deeper than you see on the surface.

Britain,as Cameron has already admitted,is a broken society which will be very difficult to mend.The family structure is broken-nearly one third of children are raised in single parent families,the education system is screwed-one third of children leave school without sufficient knowledge of the 3 Rs with no prospects of any training or any apprentiships.Needless to say that the vast majority of Uni graduates get worthless degrees which cannot get them any jobs.

I can go on and on but people like yourself have already made up their minds.But I will remind you I said on my posting the other day.Brace yourselves because these people on the streets haven't started yet.

Dragan

this has nothing to do with albanians...

why did this started in first place, black man got shot... if you been watchin tv 90 are black guys who are looting, and setting fire to the buildings...

so stop with ur anti albanian propoganda...

peace to all londoners who love this Great city

from north london

This is exactly what Cameron said yesterday on TV. But if this is the depth of his thoughts on the riots perhaps he should have stayed on lake Guarda in Italy and continued his holidays.I think people in Britain finally came to the conclusion that this man was never fit for the job.He's also no brave enough to do the right thing and fall on his sword.
(Leonidas, 10 August 2011 13:25)

Leonidas Over the years whilst contributing to B92 you have appeared to voice some sound observations, in most cases with relevant supporting evidence. Occasionally you just sprout pure nonsense, probably because (and this is my observation) you are just Confrontational and argumentative.

The events in the UK over the last several days fit the latter.

These feral kids that have rampaged thru a number of UK cities are just that, lawless, fearful, illiterate and greedy. No ammonunt of soft soaping by the cuddly left will justify there actions. It was not political, and it certainly was not a protest against current government legislation, (christ above, some that have been interviewed do not even know what party is in governemnt!) I said before that these events will provide a wonderful platform for those that feel they have the answer.
Read and Digest the contributions from the Brits on this site, the theme is basically the same, does that give you a clue. Then spend more time on the relevant sites that are reporting, see a pattern evolving?

To the contributor that suggested the 'murder of innocent black man' was the cause, pish! As I mentioned on earlier links, when the police target particular gangs it is for good reason, the police never claimed that shots were fired, admitted that only two shots were fired by police, but in typical britpol fashion chose to keep their mouths shut in anticipation of the investigation and allowed a media flurry to mislead and confuse.

Guys (and Gals) take a step back, deep breath and look beyond the dots :-))

Dragan, I am sorry, but I do not really understand what you would like me to say. Your comment could be perceived as a subtle attempt to cast blame on a group for some ‘point scoring’. As Leonidas quotes earlier ‘rational minds’ are required.

Leonidas, ‘right wing bigot influenced by murdo media’. Wow, that could actually hurt if I was a more sensitive sole 
However, in response to your riposte, paragraph one, disagree; paragraph two agree (surprised? Don’t be, though the rot started before Cameron’s entrance). Paragraph three? Well that’s where we will have to agree to disagree, though hav’nt you also made your mind up?

Bganon, again Hi . Apologies for the misleading article. You are right in as much I insinuated that he was a gang member, unintentional that it was.
What I was trying to say is that at the level of police action involving black gangs in London, (Operation Trident, well documented thru many sources), I doubt very much that this particular incident occurred ‘off the cuff’. Maybe the target was the driver and Duggan was a passenger, maybe it was the vehicle itself, maybe, maybe, maybe. Either way, fatal shots were fired, so unless you had a very nervous armed officer with itchy fingers, one has to assume that the shots were justified. Let’s await the investigation?
Finally, assuming that all are looking from the outside in (and I have to admit that is a refreshing way to sit and take stock without being to closely influenced), and notwithstanding the ‘pinky fluffy brigade’ that are appearing out of the woodwork with their many reasons why these poor unfortunates behaved as they did, the long and short of it is that what occurred happened without rhyme nor reason. How do you explain a schoolgirl on being asked why, ‘I am getting my taxes back?’

whats worng with this world why can there never be peace always war or something, now the goverment in london are trying to pretent nothing went wrong to still make peace with other countries,at the end of the day this is london and ok its not all that great i know but if we stick together we can make it a better place

Wee not withstanding Leonadis responding to charges he is confrontation - incidently many people commenting on the subject have been irrational confrontation and some plain hateful.

My position is pretty much summed up nicely by that link I sent but I will tackle a couple of points you made.

Firstly concerning Duggan suggesting he was a 'gang' is innacurate. We don't know if he was guilty of anything or not. We dont even know if the converted Olympic Starting Gun was his or not. We don't know if it was in his car, or if he was holding it. All we do know that he didn't fire it.

Lets recap - following a police source Simon Israel from Channel 4 news (which I have some time for) stated that he was told that 'an exchange of gunfire' took place. In other media similar stories were written. Then it was revealed that a police radio had saved the life of a police officer. Can you see a pattern here? It was certainly not just the media trying to sell stories. That selective leaking was initially designed to make it look as if Duggan had shot at police.

Putting all of that to one side as you said many of the rioters didn't have a clue about protest, they were out to steal. As we spoke of before many riots consist of idiots, but that doesn't mean that we should not look at the reasons for the rioting. They don't happen just because people are stupid / greedy. Additionally how do you explain the anger? People were smashing up expensive items, as well as stealing them. They were setting fires. Where does this bitterness come from? Could it be that they are behaving entirely in line with the social conditions they come from? That, to them it was logical and not as mindless as the middle classes have been led to believe?

I understand your sentiments I really do, but I can't understand that while you listen to my arguments, you seem to show no interest in wanting to understand why. Do you accept that there is benefit in trying to understand why this happened? Do you accept that we can try to learn something from this?

@ Wee Kelpie... your comments seems to be ones of rare reasonble here and i wuold like to ask u about involment young albanians (with fake names,ages...)boys,in this sad riot.

I'm guessing this is going to end the same way it started: with police shooting some bullets...

Finally the world has been exposed to the civilian "class" that has developed in this country over the last ten years. They have their own particular dress code and they have no regard for the law or anyone but themselves. They roam the streets harassing people and trying to look intimidating, they like to keep their hoods up and their heads down. I was once harangued by one of these idiots as he figured I was a student, he looked the big man shouting abuse till I had had enough and went back to have a word with him (I am not a "tough" man by any stretch of the imagination) but I'd just had enough. Most of these people have parents who couldn't give a monkeys about what they are doing or who they are doing it to as they are too busy pondering where their next bottle of cider or fix is coming from. Not all the people in our inner cities are bad, it's just the minority once again ruining everyday life for the majority.

We claim to be multicultural here in the UK but that is a bit of a myth too. Yes there are many different ethnic groups in our cities but they tend to concentrate in individual areas, effectively creating what we would refer to when speaking of Kosovo as "enclaves". Eventually these "enclaves" clash for whatever reason and it all goes off again.

What has happened this past week is opportunist looting riding on the back of what may or may not have been a police murder. The funniest thing is, in a few years from now the people in these areas will be complaining about how poor conditions are where they live. The rest of us will point out that if they ceased trashing the place every ten tears things would be better.

The reason there has been little trouble in Yorkshire is that we had riots here ten years ago and the wounds are still open from that time and we have seen one particular city (Bradford) tear itself in two along ethnic and religious lines. We don't want it to happen again so we do all we can to avoid it.

Leonidas, ‘right wing bigot influenced by murdo media’. Wow, that could actually hurt if I was a more sensitive sole 
However, in response to your riposte, paragraph one, disagree; paragraph two agree (surprised? Don’t be, though the rot started before Cameron’s entrance). Paragraph three? Well that’s where we will have to agree to disagree, though hav’nt you also made your mind up?

(Wee Kelpie, 11 August 2011 17:14)

The difference between me and you having made our minds up is that unlike you I don't try to explain riots in terms of criminality alone.I don't dispute that opportunistic criminal elements were participating in the riots and this explains the looting but how do you explain the actions of those rioters when setting shops,residential buildings and cars on fire?

How about those white girls when asked on TV why they went looting they replied "we were stealing from the rich"? What about the exchanges between young blacks in Brixton with Boris Johnson saying "they wanted a piece of the cake"?

The way that I see it is the difference between the looters and the bankers is that one group is supported and held in high esteem by the government and the other is criminalised and regarded as scum.I always try to look at the big picture of things and in my view what is emerging is the world's dispossessed are finally waking up to the inequalities of the global capitalist system that has enabled the world's financial crooks to con the world's public to pay their gambling debts and bonuses.Unless this mother of all heists is dealt with public discontent will continue to swell until it becomes a veritable flood of angry protest.

This will go on for weeks...and then endlessly restart... because your weak country is full of unarmed and silly sheep. The UK is a liberal secular multicultural place whose "citizens" are no longer welcome on this site to blabber on like fools about the joys of "diversity", the "EU", "tolerance", "secularism" etc. Your diseased society is burning down and you can't hide it. Bully for the unarmed Asians who died like men trying to protect their property in Birmingham last night.You must be so proud citizens cannot own guns to protect themselves. Today your pathetic PM thundered he would approve WATER CANNONS! Oh my!!! What terror!!! Putin and the Russian militia would have ended this in an hour. Armed Americans in fifteen minutes.

All western countries with these kind of problems got what they deserve. The west is sticking its nose everywhere, rewriting maps, killing innocent people, for oil or other personal objectives, and basically forcing non-westerners to be their slaves. Impoverish a country as much as possible, make them dependant on aid and then you will control them. Economic crisis in America and riots in England. I hope they spread to the rest of the "civilized world". Hope you burn to the ground you hypocrits.

Ian..-Yorkshire ,seems to be the only peaceful riot free place...
you are very lucky! There is not many Albanians thats why.I live in Croydon,(full with albanians)and u can see what happened here!
(Dragan, 10 August 2011 14:07)

That is actually ridiculous!
You're blaming these riots on Albanians?
I forgot there were Albanians in Greater Manchester, Merseyside, Bristol, West Midlands, Kent, Leicester, Nottingham, Oxford, Reading, Portsmouth etc. All of which have experienced rioting and looting.
I'm guessing them two lads who were arrested for trying to organise riots in Glasgow and Dundee were Albanian too?
Edinburgh and Cardiff have Albanian communities according to The Independent, how come we haven't had rioting and looting there?
Keep your silly comments to yourself.

Yet more gangs getting together to basically loot shops.

Having lived in the part of Salford where some of this happened when I was a student, I know that an element of the locals behave like this as routine. Most nights sirens went through the night as youths set fire to stuff, chucked rocks at cars and property and .

Fourtunately most people are seeing this for the criminal activity that it is, and there are few of the bleeding heart liberal types who say society is to blame for "excluding" these people. They have excluded themselves as they don't want to work or contribute anything. Lazy, selfish, scum.

London is now under control and the rest will follow. Hopefully most of these scumbags will be tracked down.

"Edinburgh and Cardiff have Albanian communities according to The Independent, how come we haven't had rioting and looting there?"

Ian, UK

That's because the albanians there are all currently serving time for human trafficing and drug trade. However, when they get out you better duck.

Yorkshire where I live seems to be the only peaceful riot-free place left in England. I wonder how long it will take before the rioting and looting spreads to Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield and Hull? It is quite surprising considering these are normally hotspots for riots.

This is just a repeat of the 1981 riots in England and these rioters will achieve nothing. The police will catch these criminals. Some of the idiots have even put videos of themselves looting on Youtube. Wait until the police see that. There is so much CCTV in the UK, people will get caught. 300 people were arrested after the Bradford riots in 2001 and technology has improved since then such as digital facial recognition. So many people think that they won't get caught and that they can get away with it. Well wait until the Police come knocking at your doors, because it will happen!

Ian..-Yorkshire ,seems to be the only peaceful riot free place...
you are very lucky! There is not many Albanians thats why.I live in Croydon,(full with albanians)and u can see what happened here!

Scotland should bolt the union before the mayhem spreads to there!

Dragan

this has nothing to do with albanians...

why did this started in first place, black man got shot... if you been watchin tv 90 are black guys who are looting, and setting fire to the buildings...

so stop with ur anti albanian propoganda...

peace to all londoners who love this Great city

from north london

london should remove all coats jumpers with hoods or cut them off because these criminals are not brought to justice and they should be what ever the age... If they are young enough to do crime they are not too young to be sent to prison for the crime they do

The 'civillized east' should immediately recognize the protesting civillians as the legitimate government of UK. The UK is undermining the democratic rights and freedom of their own people. cameron has lost all legitimacy and must immediately step down. The 'civillized east' should orrganize a military attack on UK in order to protect the civillians. And they should arm the peaceful protesters so they can defend themselves against the tyrant dictator UK government.

I am expressis grave concern regarding the brutal crackdown in London.
NATO should intervene at once and its member nations should recognize the Yob Mob as the legitimate representatives of the British people!

If they are young enough to do crime they are not too young to be sent to prison for the crime they do
(nickole, 10 August 2011 12:42)

This is exactly what Cameron said yesterday on TV. But if this is the depth of his thoughts on the riots perhaps he should have stayed on lake Guarda in Italy and continued his holidays.I think people in Britain finally came to the conclusion that this man was never fit for the job.He's also no brave enough to do the right thing and fall on his sword.

I did not start ,i just gave a answer on Roberto-Tung comments that Serbian people doing riot in London,and everything else i said efter that is pure truth ,so dont get upset,is not antialbanian propaganda,is just simply TRUTH.

First, The Chinese should send in their new aircraft carrier in order to enforce a no fly zone over the UK and begin the bombing of all military, police and media transmitter as legitimate targets. The UN should freeze all assets of the the current oppressive govt and recognize the fighting freedom fighters who are battling armed police with bare hands and flower petals. Finally, a war crimes tribunal must be appointed in order to investigate allegations of mass murder, rape, and ethnic cleansing by the current stongman David Cameron and his regime. This criminal enterprise must not be allowed to succeed in the heart of Europe. Scotland must now act and declare independence.

Lets keep the reactionary bile down to a minimum shall we?

I don't think making laws about what people should wear, bringing in the army or any other draconian nonsense that infringes civil liberties should be brought in. Some of us know that once this kind of thing is brought in its very hard to get rid of it. Bin Laden is dead, has anti civil liberties legislation by world governments been repealled since then? Has it hell!

Carrying guns to protect ourselves Leo - what nonsense. Imagine if those criminals had guns 'to protect themselves'. It could be a civil war by now, if there is anything people in the UK are united about its the fact they are happy that gunshots have barely been fired by anybody since the riots began.

It will soon be time to start the real debate - why this happened in the first place. If the politicians and the Daily Hate allow an adult discussion that is. Unemployment, poverty, lack of investment, police conduct.

In the last few years the media has programmed the British to agree to cuts, cuts, cuts. Like zombies everybody agrees to it, whilst the government spends billions on bailing out banks and funding wars abroad.

Do they cut the wars? Do they cut bankers bonuses? Do they cut out bailing out the rich? No. Where do they cut? They cut into social programmes of the poor, they cut jobs, they cut hospitals, they cut education grants, they cut libraries, they cut youth centres, they cut our liberties.

Time to debate the gap between rich and poor, time to debate our priorities. Yeah the Daily Mail and Sun readers will never care about anybody but themselves and they are too stupid to understand cause and effect, but that doesn't mean the more educated part of society can't have a debate and put pressure on government to act.

The *real* revolution is on its way. The signs are loud and clear. The apple still looks polished but is rotten to the core. Look beneath the surface and it's all pretty ugly. The greedy hypocrites will soon learn what their nature brings. Like attracts like. This is the law of attraction. Spread hatred, destruction and violence and it will come knocking on your door.

@ Wee Kelpie... your comments seems to be ones of rare reasonble here and i wuold like to ask u about involment young albanians (with fake names,ages...)boys,in this sad riot.

"The 'civillized east' should immediately recognize the protesting civillians as the legitimate government of UK. The UK is undermining the democratic rights and freedom of their own people. cameron has lost all legitimacy and must immediately step down.
(Ratko, 10 August 2011 17:19)

Yes! 100%agree! Unbelievable that the UK sent their army with tanks and aircraft killing and bombing some 100s of these millions of protestors who only fight for more democracy, with strictly peaceful means, isn't it? The UN must immediately condemn this behaviour!

I'm guessing this is going to end the same way it started: with police shooting some bullets...

Finally the world has been exposed to the civilian "class" that has developed in this country over the last ten years. They have their own particular dress code and they have no regard for the law or anyone but themselves. They roam the streets harassing people and trying to look intimidating, they like to keep their hoods up and their heads down. I was once harangued by one of these idiots as he figured I was a student, he looked the big man shouting abuse till I had had enough and went back to have a word with him (I am not a "tough" man by any stretch of the imagination) but I'd just had enough. Most of these people have parents who couldn't give a monkeys about what they are doing or who they are doing it to as they are too busy pondering where their next bottle of cider or fix is coming from. Not all the people in our inner cities are bad, it's just the minority once again ruining everyday life for the majority.

We claim to be multicultural here in the UK but that is a bit of a myth too. Yes there are many different ethnic groups in our cities but they tend to concentrate in individual areas, effectively creating what we would refer to when speaking of Kosovo as "enclaves". Eventually these "enclaves" clash for whatever reason and it all goes off again.

What has happened this past week is opportunist looting riding on the back of what may or may not have been a police murder. The funniest thing is, in a few years from now the people in these areas will be complaining about how poor conditions are where they live. The rest of us will point out that if they ceased trashing the place every ten tears things would be better.

The reason there has been little trouble in Yorkshire is that we had riots here ten years ago and the wounds are still open from that time and we have seen one particular city (Bradford) tear itself in two along ethnic and religious lines. We don't want it to happen again so we do all we can to avoid it.

Wee not withstanding Leonadis responding to charges he is confrontation - incidently many people commenting on the subject have been irrational confrontation and some plain hateful.

My position is pretty much summed up nicely by that link I sent but I will tackle a couple of points you made.

Firstly concerning Duggan suggesting he was a 'gang' is innacurate. We don't know if he was guilty of anything or not. We dont even know if the converted Olympic Starting Gun was his or not. We don't know if it was in his car, or if he was holding it. All we do know that he didn't fire it.

Lets recap - following a police source Simon Israel from Channel 4 news (which I have some time for) stated that he was told that 'an exchange of gunfire' took place. In other media similar stories were written. Then it was revealed that a police radio had saved the life of a police officer. Can you see a pattern here? It was certainly not just the media trying to sell stories. That selective leaking was initially designed to make it look as if Duggan had shot at police.

Putting all of that to one side as you said many of the rioters didn't have a clue about protest, they were out to steal. As we spoke of before many riots consist of idiots, but that doesn't mean that we should not look at the reasons for the rioting. They don't happen just because people are stupid / greedy. Additionally how do you explain the anger? People were smashing up expensive items, as well as stealing them. They were setting fires. Where does this bitterness come from? Could it be that they are behaving entirely in line with the social conditions they come from? That, to them it was logical and not as mindless as the middle classes have been led to believe?

I understand your sentiments I really do, but I can't understand that while you listen to my arguments, you seem to show no interest in wanting to understand why. Do you accept that there is benefit in trying to understand why this happened? Do you accept that we can try to learn something from this?

Watch and think about it. Does it make sense?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlvptpI3DtA&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_406260

whats worng with this world why can there never be peace always war or something, now the goverment in london are trying to pretent nothing went wrong to still make peace with other countries,at the end of the day this is london and ok its not all that great i know but if we stick together we can make it a better place

This is exactly what Cameron said yesterday on TV. But if this is the depth of his thoughts on the riots perhaps he should have stayed on lake Guarda in Italy and continued his holidays.I think people in Britain finally came to the conclusion that this man was never fit for the job.He's also no brave enough to do the right thing and fall on his sword.
(Leonidas, 10 August 2011 13:25)

Leonidas Over the years whilst contributing to B92 you have appeared to voice some sound observations, in most cases with relevant supporting evidence. Occasionally you just sprout pure nonsense, probably because (and this is my observation) you are just Confrontational and argumentative.

The events in the UK over the last several days fit the latter.

These feral kids that have rampaged thru a number of UK cities are just that, lawless, fearful, illiterate and greedy. No ammonunt of soft soaping by the cuddly left will justify there actions. It was not political, and it certainly was not a protest against current government legislation, (christ above, some that have been interviewed do not even know what party is in governemnt!) I said before that these events will provide a wonderful platform for those that feel they have the answer.
Read and Digest the contributions from the Brits on this site, the theme is basically the same, does that give you a clue. Then spend more time on the relevant sites that are reporting, see a pattern evolving?

To the contributor that suggested the 'murder of innocent black man' was the cause, pish! As I mentioned on earlier links, when the police target particular gangs it is for good reason, the police never claimed that shots were fired, admitted that only two shots were fired by police, but in typical britpol fashion chose to keep their mouths shut in anticipation of the investigation and allowed a media flurry to mislead and confuse.

Guys (and Gals) take a step back, deep breath and look beyond the dots :-))

Leonidas Over the years whilst contributing to B92 you have appeared to voice some sound observations, in most cases with relevant supporting evidence. Occasionally you just sprout pure nonsense, probably because (and this is my observation) you are just Confrontational and argumentative.

The events in the UK over the last several days fit the latter.

These feral kids that have rampaged thru a number of UK cities are just that, lawless, fearful, illiterate and greedy. No ammonunt of soft soaping by the cuddly left will justify there actions. It was not political, and it certainly was not a protest against current government legislation, (christ above, some that have been interviewed do not even know what party is in governemnt!) I said before that these events will provide a wonderful platform for those that feel they have the answer.
Read and Digest the contributions from the Brits on this site, the theme is basically the same, does that give you a clue. Then spend more time on the relevant sites that are reporting, see a pattern evolving?

To the contributor that suggested the 'murder of innocent black man' was the cause, pish! As I mentioned on earlier links, when the police target particular gangs it is for good reason, the police never claimed that shots were fired, admitted that only two shots were fired by police, but in typical britpol fashion chose to keep their mouths shut in anticipation of the investigation and allowed a media flurry to mislead and confuse.

Guys (and Gals) take a step back, deep breath and look beyond the dots :-))
(Wee Kelpie, 11 August 2011 12:02)

Unfortunately rightwing bigots readers of the reliable Murdoch press express the views that you do,that is the riots are solely due to criminal elements in UK with no underlying causes.On the other hand people like me are looking to find the reasons behind the riots which in my view are a lot deeper than you see on the surface.

Britain,as Cameron has already admitted,is a broken society which will be very difficult to mend.The family structure is broken-nearly one third of children are raised in single parent families,the education system is screwed-one third of children leave school without sufficient knowledge of the 3 Rs with no prospects of any training or any apprentiships.Needless to say that the vast majority of Uni graduates get worthless degrees which cannot get them any jobs.

I can go on and on but people like yourself have already made up their minds.But I will remind you I said on my posting the other day.Brace yourselves because these people on the streets haven't started yet.

Dragan, I am sorry, but I do not really understand what you would like me to say. Your comment could be perceived as a subtle attempt to cast blame on a group for some ‘point scoring’. As Leonidas quotes earlier ‘rational minds’ are required.

Leonidas, ‘right wing bigot influenced by murdo media’. Wow, that could actually hurt if I was a more sensitive sole 
However, in response to your riposte, paragraph one, disagree; paragraph two agree (surprised? Don’t be, though the rot started before Cameron’s entrance). Paragraph three? Well that’s where we will have to agree to disagree, though hav’nt you also made your mind up?

Bganon, again Hi . Apologies for the misleading article. You are right in as much I insinuated that he was a gang member, unintentional that it was.
What I was trying to say is that at the level of police action involving black gangs in London, (Operation Trident, well documented thru many sources), I doubt very much that this particular incident occurred ‘off the cuff’. Maybe the target was the driver and Duggan was a passenger, maybe it was the vehicle itself, maybe, maybe, maybe. Either way, fatal shots were fired, so unless you had a very nervous armed officer with itchy fingers, one has to assume that the shots were justified. Let’s await the investigation?
Finally, assuming that all are looking from the outside in (and I have to admit that is a refreshing way to sit and take stock without being to closely influenced), and notwithstanding the ‘pinky fluffy brigade’ that are appearing out of the woodwork with their many reasons why these poor unfortunates behaved as they did, the long and short of it is that what occurred happened without rhyme nor reason. How do you explain a schoolgirl on being asked why, ‘I am getting my taxes back?’

Wee Kapie can't agree with you that things happen for no reason. I mean philosophically speaking you might be correct, everything is pretty meaningless, but there are specific, logical reasons why people behave the way they do.

Humankind has specific ways of tapping into knowing how people are going to behave if exposed to one thing or another - its called advertising! And it apparantly works. You sound as if you are not interested in knowing why, or perhaps you are delibarately closing your eyes to that. Do you at least accept that prevention is better than cure? You would prefer to prevent this happening rather than putting people in jail and hoping for the best - unless you are an advocate of the prison works philosophy. Surely those 'believers' have been bebunked by now!

How do I explain a schoolgirl saying she's getting her taxes back? She is incapable of expressing herself, what she is really saying is 'I'm getting my bailout'. In other words, do you really think that if the hundreds of millions of pounds that have been spent on propping up the banks had been spent on helping the socially disadvantaged they would be robbing and stealing?

Stupid and impoverished people do not know how to express themselves, god knows most richer people don't. Look if you walk through the old cardboard city and see some man in a suit yell 'get a job, you lazy git', what do you think is really going on?

Tell you what I see. I see somebody feeling guilty about something and then expressing their guilt through anger upon said beggar. Pitiful really - emotionally retarded.

People do not mean what they say. Hell there are sadly a lot of really stupid people around. Now you ain't, but you have got to realise that there are plenty more angry, stupid people around supporting the view that this 'scum' deserves what they get. The stupid are not interested in prevention, they want vengence. If those people get their way nothing gets solved, it gets swept under the carpet.

No I really think it is a matter of intelligence of one kind or another, therefore my advice to you is to keep thinking about it, as you say, calmly and rationally.

Having heard Cameron's speech it is as clear as crystal that he understands nothing and seems completely out of touch.

Leonidas, ‘right wing bigot influenced by murdo media’. Wow, that could actually hurt if I was a more sensitive sole 
However, in response to your riposte, paragraph one, disagree; paragraph two agree (surprised? Don’t be, though the rot started before Cameron’s entrance). Paragraph three? Well that’s where we will have to agree to disagree, though hav’nt you also made your mind up?

(Wee Kelpie, 11 August 2011 17:14)

The difference between me and you having made our minds up is that unlike you I don't try to explain riots in terms of criminality alone.I don't dispute that opportunistic criminal elements were participating in the riots and this explains the looting but how do you explain the actions of those rioters when setting shops,residential buildings and cars on fire?

How about those white girls when asked on TV why they went looting they replied "we were stealing from the rich"? What about the exchanges between young blacks in Brixton with Boris Johnson saying "they wanted a piece of the cake"?

The way that I see it is the difference between the looters and the bankers is that one group is supported and held in high esteem by the government and the other is criminalised and regarded as scum.I always try to look at the big picture of things and in my view what is emerging is the world's dispossessed are finally waking up to the inequalities of the global capitalist system that has enabled the world's financial crooks to con the world's public to pay their gambling debts and bonuses.Unless this mother of all heists is dealt with public discontent will continue to swell until it becomes a veritable flood of angry protest.