German Ambassador in Priština Hans-Dieter Steinbach has said his country "supports Kosovo's and Serbia's accession into the EU as two separate countries".
Read my other statement again on the US Ambassador in South Vietnam and how to the last minutes of that war “it was to stay the course”. That is how quickly a policy can change on the ground. Oh by the way are you aware that your US is talking to Colonel Gaddafi – naturally they are demanding his absolute surerend blah, blah, blah. But the reality is they are bogged down in an unwinnable war that is costing the US so much that next years pensions will be cut by 20%.
This is the third war it has lost and you Albanians think they will hold onto Kosovo for too long – why what do you have apart from 1 million hungry mouths to feed.
(sj, 20 July 2011 01:24)
Curious as in pensions are you talking about Social Security Pensions, or private sector retirement pensions or personal 401,403, pensions??
I am assuming you are speaking of Social Security which is controlled by the govt. I have yet to have heard that prediction 20% of course that does not mean it is not true since you were probably part of a state dept meeting last week in which a local Serb was invited to attend.
In your question what does Kosovo have other than a million hungry mouths to feed.
Have you not said time and time again that the US involvement had nothing to with humanitarian issues for the Albanians, it is to secure the heavily needed base Camp Bondsteel. As a matter of fact the whole war was enacted for this one purpose, according to you!
Well with Serbia becoming the most sought after country in the world would this base not remain even more important?
You must be speaking of the daily press announcements that Serbia will not recognize Kosovo-who are they needing to convince? Or the daily article that recognition of Kosovo is not a prelude to joining the EU-again who are they needing to convince? Before you say the Kosovo Albanians they have no need to convince them, but only their own people.
(heyhey, 19 July 2011 14:48)
If the west was as powerful as you seem to think it would have the might to tell Tadic to never make a statement on Kosovo which contradicts its interests, but it does not my friend.
Tadic et al have to make statements which contradict people like that German Ambassador because his political life would be zero.
Just look at what Berlin has to say not at one of its minor employees who repeats a current policy. As I have said before if the west was that powerful it would have Belgrade singing from the same page in the hymn book, but it does not.
Read my other statement again on the US Ambassador in South Vietnam and how to the last minutes of that war “it was to stay the course”. That is how quickly a policy can change on the ground. Oh by the way are you aware that your US is talking to Colonel Gaddafi – naturally they are demanding his absolute surerend blah, blah, blah. But the reality is they are bogged down in an unwinnable war that is costing the US so much that next years pensions will be cut by 20%.
This is the third war it has lost and you Albanians think they will hold onto Kosovo for too long – why what do you have apart from 1 million hungry mouths to feed.
Poor CG, you wouldn't realize reality if it hit you over the head.
CG says: "One advice:Save this comment on your harddisk,and wait another decade and you will be saying: "Uh,the good old days,they are over!"
The Truth Chicago says: I've waited a decade already buddy and Kosova's independence occured during this time since the end of the Kosova War (war of liberation). So, with that said, Im delighted with the results of the end of a decade. I will gladly wait another decade for Serbia to accept this reality:)
CG says: "BTW The same EU and US have opened our markets completely for our goods,liberating us from visas,we are participating in the global community and have Russia and China as free trade countries with us!
With good craftsmanship,that gives us the opportunity to grow stronger and stronger while Kosovo Albanians are locked up:UN 1244 clearly says Kosovo is Serbia,UN,EU,NATO blocked forever by our friends etc.!"
The Truth Chicago says: Talk is cheap CG. Serbia is still a transitional economy with unfinished privatization and incomplete structural reforms. Major challenges ahead include: high government expenditures for salaries, pensions and unemployment; a growing need for new government borrowing; rising public and private foreign debt; and stagnant levels of foreign direct investment. Privatization revenues have fallen precipitously in recent years, while a high percentage of economic activity remains in the hands of the state(awful idea). Other serious challenges include an inefficient judicial system, high levels of corruption, and an aging population. Keep dreaming CG.
CG says: "So we Serbs can sit calmy and just wait for the right moment to end the Albanian project once and for all!"
The Truth Chicago says: Serbia had the oppportunity in 1998. The entire "elite" Serbian military was in Kosova and what did they accomplish? Nothing!They retreated BACK to Serbia. To the average observer that appears to be a major failure/loss, but maybe you have insider information and Serbia is waiting to "spring" their trap! hahaha! Oh, you make me laugh CG.
CG says: "I just love to see Albanians coming here on B92 and bragging about how "Kosovo never,never will be part of Serbia","the world is behind us" babbling and ask Serbs to accept "this reality"!
They behave like the boy in the dark forest who is whistling very loudly to camouflage that he is afraid of something!"
The Truth Chicago says: Albanians dont need to brag, they already have Kosova. Just like any independent nation in the world may have trouble making neighbors, Kosova has naughty neighbors that try to cause trouble. Luckily, most of Europe and the USA support Kosova no matter what. It's lovely to see that the countries that most Serbs emmigrate to for a better life are exactly the same countries that support Kosova and not Serbia. Maybe Serbs should start moving to China and North Korea if they dont like it in Europe or USA:)
CG says: "They wouldn`t do this without reason ,they know perfectly what awaits them behind the corner,and so do we Serbs"
The Truth Chicago says: Tell us whats around the corner Nostradamus: Serbia is basing its policy toward Kosovo on a vague hope that regional geopolitics might change to its advantage. This shortsightedness of Serbian policymakers was further revealed in the decision to block the membership of Kosovo in the UN by the Russian veto. While it costs Russia nothing – and, moreover, provides Russia with an effective leverage for expanding its influence over Serbian policy – it does cost Serbia a lot.
It is hard to conceive how much money and energy – not to mention benzene and munitions – Serbia has wasted throughout the years in the attempt to do the undoable. In fact, a group of experts has recently calculated that Kosovo costs Serbian taxpayers 16 euros on average each second! 16 euros each second! Now, try to imagine what would happen if Serbia accepted the more than obvious fact that Kosovo had irreversibly become a neighbour. The two countries could establish diplomatic relations which would not only facilitate their respective economic recoveries but deal with many other challenges not to mention the accession of both to the EU.
However, the Serbian political elite obviously lacks vision and courage to do the right thing and turn the problem into an opportunity. Even worse, judging by the current situation, such posturing doesn’t appear likely to be revised any time soon. Wake up Serberians!
One advice:Save this comment on your harddisk,and wait another decade and you will be saying: "Uh,the good old days,they are over!"
BTW The same EU and US have opened our markets completely for our goods,liberating us from visas,we are participating in the global community and have Russia and China as free trade countries with us!
With good craftsmanship,that gives us the opportunity to grow stronger and stronger while Kosovo Albanians are locked up:UN 1244 clearly says Kosovo is Serbia,UN,EU,NATO blocked forever by our friends etc.!
So we Serbs can sit calmy and just wait for the right moment to end the Albanian project once and for all!
I just love to see Albanians coming here on B92 and bragging about how "Kosovo never,never will be part of Serbia","the world is behind us" babbling and ask Serbs to accept "this reality"!
They behave like the boy in the dark forest who is whistling very loudly to camouflage that he is afraid of something!
They wouldn`t do this without reason ,they know perfectly what awaits them behind the corner,and so do we Serbs !
No amount of nonsense talk from Serbia can change Kosovas independence. Face it Serbia, you chose to be friends with the wrong countries and you followed bad policies and the loss of Kosova is a result.
I love watching Serbia humiliated, squirming and wasting precious time, energy and money into a situation that is not winnable, sort of like all of the wars that they started, but the other countries finished by giving you a much needed batine!
I hope you get my meaning because if you are a power you do not have to constantly repeat the same message over and over again – you just do what pleases you. The west is no longer a power, but a thorn on a withering vine.
(sj, 19 July 2011 00:53)
You must be speaking of the daily press announcements that Serbia will not recognize Kosovo-who are they needing to convince? Or the daily article that recognition of Kosovo is not a prelude to joining the EU-again who are they needing to convince? Before you say the Kosovo Albanians they have no need to convince them, but only their own people.
Its Germany again;"Serbia will be asked to recognize Kosovo"
"Germany will oppose any threat to Kosovo sovereignty,its division or
change of borders Stainback explained" "Kosovo has been recognized by
76 Countries"Lets put it in proper perspective what Mr.Stainback said.
There is no Kosovo sovereignty.There is no Kosovo international borders
other then one controlled by Serbian authorities.Most populous Countries on our Planet Earth do not recognize Kosovo independence.This all wishful thinking by Germany mixed with mild but coercive, contradictory, foreign policy to ward Serbia.Not much has change in acrimonious relationship
between these two countries since Congress of Berlin 1878.Without dredging out the troublesome details of last 133 years its appropriate to notice that Germany is still questioning Serbia's independence and territorial integrity vested in Versailles treaty and UN resolution 1244
Only thing we have to say to "our dear German friends"Serbia is here to stay the way it is.Get use to it.
B92, why do you allow this provocation to get through?
"The issue is: does anyone want Serbia inside the EU, while they continue to torture the people of Kosova and Bosnia, and cause unrest and distress throughout the Balkans. Most normal Europeans do not. Germany might be most articulate on that point, but hardly alone."
Are you really wanting to alienate all except Albanians? I am sure that you would not allow a Serb posting something like this. Not even close.
The fact that Roberto claim that Serbs are continuing to torture people of Kosovo and Bosnia makes it clear to the rest of us that you have no problem allowing lies and provocations to get through.
How about Roberto explains how exactly Serbia tortures these people and base that on fact before you allow it through?
Does he have exclusive right to say anything he likes however not substantiated where the rest of us would have our posts edited or even not published.
Would be very interesting to hear why this went through.
I dont see how this Ambassador can be saying such foolish comments as to Serbia being asked to recognize Kosovo as an independent state. The official EU website lists Kosovo as a potential EU candidate but under Resolution 1244 which reaffirms Serbia's sovereignty. The website also includes Kosovo under the borders of Serbia in the official map of Serbia on the website. Look at it yourselves! Kosovo will never join the EU as a so called "country". It will join the EU in line with UNSC Resolution 1244 and will join the EU as Kosovo(UNSCR 1244). Case closed.
Look at it yourselves if you dont believe me!
Can someone care to explain when will it be officially ruled that Kosovo is a sovereign nation or will remain a province of Serbia? I'm sure the suspense is bothersome to many,especially to Serbs and Kosovar-Albanians.
Bravo!!! just read the serbian responses to the German ambassadors statement, and you see that Serbians didn't learn a thing. Serbia will have no place in the EU before they finally come to terms with their past and regognize Kosovo. Anything else is unacceptable to the rest of Europe. Don't fool yourselves, you will not become part of the EU, before you finally accept that reality.
(Willi Pfaff, 18 July 2011 12:54)
What EU are you talking about? Will Serbia join the EU before it implodes? Don’t fool yourself the EU will not wipe its feet on Kosovo and the Albanians as Serbia is a much greater prize.
This has to come from the German government in Berlin not from the likes of its Ambassador in the so called independent Kosovo – he only says what is current policy amongst the so called united allies LOL, LOL, look at NATO and Libya. But in the meantime here is a small part of a speech given by another Ambassador in Saigon, South Vietnam in the early 1975.
“We will stand side by side with our allies and never give up on doing what is right in fight against communism “We are here for the long haul and any suggestion that we will cut and run is purely communist propaganda”
About 6 months later the same man stated that the US had won the war in Vietnam and jumped on a waiting helicopter. About an hour later North Vietnamese tanks rolled through the main gates of the then US embassy.
I hope you get my meaning because if you are a power you do not have to constantly repeat the same message over and over again – you just do what pleases you. The west is no longer a power, but a thorn on a withering vine.
I could not agree more with your logical and objective comments. I am afraid that B92 and characters like Roberto are all financed by the same political organization in the USA. It is a pity that B92 is lacking the courage to inform its visitors about its foreign investors and how these people are trying to influence opinions. Of course independently-thinking people like you, me, and fortunately many others can see through all this.
What did Jeremic do now to get the ambassador upset?
How will he spin this?
Germany can ask all it likes - Serbia's position is one that almost all parties agree on and isn't going to change. Serbians should remember that they have a lot of supporters in the "West". The German government is not representative of how most normal cirizens of the EU think.
(The Brit, 18 July 2011 11:36)
What a pitiful argument. One may even feel sorry for you, seeing like you have nothing left to say, except pretending to know how hundreds of millions of people think.
Dream on Steinbach
I agree with you when you say: "only safe borders can bring stability to the Balkans and Europe" So Kosovo is Serbian's southern province!
Nicht alle deutschen Staatsbuerger sind mir der deutschen Aussenpolitik einverstanden und auch viele deutsche Diplomaten sind es nicht.
AA ist nicht mehr was es mal war, LOL
Denken Sie mal darueber nach.
( Not all German citizens agree with German foreign policies and even, lots of German diplomats don't agree. Foreign affaires is no longer what it used to be, LOL
Think about it)
Joachim, German citizen
This is common knowledge. Serbia will not go anywhere. Now observe the barrages of Serbian officials in the coming days and weeks, claiming the exact opposite. I will keep counting, if it is countable.
was excpecting you to say, who is this German ambassador and why there is a German Embassy in Kosova, since "Kosova is Serbia"?, and Germany has a German embassy in Belgrade.
To shade my dear Anthropologist.
(Agim Kelmendi, 18 July 2011 18:20)
Funny you should bring that up since the German ambassador to Serbia said something different a few days ago :)
LOL and when Serbia is "asked" it will say "no". And then what's the EU going to do? Refuse membership? Go ahead. Undermine your credibility even further guys.
***
You are aware that Serbia has requested membership in the EU, and not the other way around, aren't you? You make it sound like the EU actually wants to join Serbia...
Whose bread I eat, his song I sing. (Since 2007 Serbia has received EU financial aid under the instrument for pre-accession assistance (IPA) for an annual average financial envelope of over €190 million. The allocation for 2011 totals €202,6 million.)
believe or not, but i am estonian and not a russian or serb. before working in KiM i had a different point of view on the things down there - but all this muslim-clan-based "historic illyrian" business managed to make me sick - and believe not only me but plenty of other foreigners in different int org-s. just returned from Syria where muslims(formally alawites)rule and live like ... keeping assyrian christians threatened (if they do not behave then...mentality) - and the same thing is going on in KiM. maybe, if the KiM albanians were christians or buddhists or sth - maybe we then would have more in common and problems could be solved in more reasonable manner, but with selfish-racist muslim albanians - no hope (I have read that muslims did not trust christian albanians during the war and suspected them to be pro -serb). though there have been some of albanians here who claim to be christians - may be you are...for instance somebody mr Kelmendi - according to google - is from christian clan, but the familiy itself seeem to be completely criminal spreading their tentacles all over the ex yugo and in rest of europe. Or pardon - some of you say your 1st religion is albanianism - that implies very clearly to supremacy of your group what in turn is called nazism - taking in view that you strive to create ethically pure albanian-inhabited areas, grab the lands of the neighbours and conduct ethnocide of the minorities. by the way KiM albanians, how is Roma Mahalla reconstruction going in South-Mitro?
The issue here is not Germany, the Holocaust, or who fought on which (fascist) side during the 2nd World War. That's just another distraction here as usual, and a very ingenuous one, to say the least.
The issue is: does anyone want Serbia inside the EU, while they continue to torture the people of Kosova and Bosnia, and cause unrest and distress throughout the Balkans. Most normal Europeans do not. Germany might be most articulate on that point, but hardly alone.
One day in the future, the world will see what crap this all was, and how Belgrade merely prolonged the misery of the Balkans for as long as possible. And who does it benefit? Certainly not the "common" people, not in Serbia, nor throughout the former YU. The nationalists always have the same answer: Let them eat nationalism...
And speaking of ww2 and war crimes, an interesting link from the typically excellent bbc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14176379
It means, apparently, that Italian courts allow individuals to sue other countries for war crimes, even those committed 60+ years ago. In this case, we see Greek survivors suing Germany for individual reparations for crimes committed by the Nazis ag. their relatives. Germany is appealing to the World Court, but we'll be following closely. Many survivors fr ww2 could theoretically still sue Germany, incl my own family.
This same route could (and should) be taken by surviving victims in Bosnia and Kosova from the aggression/genocides of the 90s. This is one potential direction that we need to seriously plan for.
"Germany will oppose any threat to Kosovo's sovereignty, its division or change of borders," Steinbach explained..
Ok hmm since when did Kosovo become a German colony?
Kosovo isn't going anywhere so he can speak what he wants, reality is kosovo is not a country, and if Serbia has to recognize Independent Kosovo then so do the other 5 EU members.
LOL and when Serbia is "asked" it will say "no". And then what's the EU going to do? Refuse membership? Go ahead. Undermine your credibility even further guys. What a waste of time if it puts recognizing a failed narcostate before a sovereign country :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 18 July 2011 17:18)
I was excpecting you to say, who is this German ambassador and why there is a German Embassy in Kosova, since "Kosova is Serbia"?, and Germany has a German embassy in Belgrade.
To shade my dear Anthropologist.
You mean don't blame it on Milosevic - that is way to simple...
Ever heard of the expression:
"People who live in a glass house shouldn't throw stones" I think it applies perfectly here.
Germany like it or not is the powerhouse of Europe and it's opinion matters a whole lot.
LOL and when Serbia is "asked" it will say "no". And then what's the EU going to do? Refuse membership? Go ahead. Undermine your credibility even further guys. What a waste of time if it puts recognizing a failed narcostate before a sovereign country :)
germans will be soon fighting muslim turkish intruders unless they wish to accept islam - what by the way may happen as all the extremes in europe have come from there or a german speaking country - engels,marx, hitler etc. anyone who follows germany`s economy understands that actually they depend on russians, just like before WWII. And be sure, eventually they "sell" those "illyrians" as they have sold everyone. muslim albanians do not belong to Europe anyway, neither islam, so Serbs do not give up and do not recognize this wannabe state! I believe that one day justice will prevail and KiM will return to her rightful owners - Serbs( hope that "illyrians" do not turn her into MEGA-dump, as it was BIG dump already a couple of yrs ago)
(an estonian, 18 July 2011 14:29)
As an "estonian" you seem quite knowledgeable of Illyrian existence. As a Serb your knowledge is quite poor of Illyrian origin of the Western Ballkans.
There are plenty of jokers in here, but if you insist one more won't make a difference.
What business is this of Germany's? Germany's record for threatening other nations is well known - they have only recently rejoined the human race after their involvement in the Holocaust (don't blame it on Hitler - that is too simple). You're right! Germany even today is hiding the nazis as Austria does... They haven't changed. Wait a bit let's see what will happen next, US is bankrupt, half of EU countries are on the edge of bankruptcy and who will support the mafia state? Germany won't have money for all. But more important is that Serbia don't EU. A dozen of countries in EU are not happy . Denmark is putting back the checkpoints, France is going to do the same, the Czechs want for long time to get out from EU...What couldn't achieve Hitler during the WW2 by force, now Germany by means of money and sarcastic policy wants to achieve. The former Germany's allies are all in EU and now is time for even the mafia state(albanians). Serbia will be if not forever out at least the last of all the European countries to join. Germany wants her revenge and with high price!
Full of fluff Pfaff. Serbia to come to terms with it's glorious past, no problem. Look at the German, Croatian and Albanian past for what is truly revolting.
germans will be soon fighting muslim turkish intruders unless they wish to accept islam - what by the way may happen as all the extremes in europe have come from there or a german speaking country - engels,marx, hitler etc. anyone who follows germany`s economy understands that actually they depend on russians, just like before WWII. And be sure, eventually they "sell" those "illyrians" as they have sold everyone. muslim albanians do not belong to Europe anyway, neither islam, so Serbs do not give up and do not recognize this wannabe state! I believe that one day justice will prevail and KiM will return to her rightful owners - Serbs( hope that "illyrians" do not turn her into MEGA-dump, as it was BIG dump already a couple of yrs ago)
What business is this of Germany's? Germany's record for threatening other nations is well known - they have only recently rejoined the human race after their involvement in the Holocaust (don't blame it on Hitler - that is too simple).
Perhaps Germany should mind its own busines and not support the break-up of international law.
(Chris Wilson, 18 July 2011 11:16)
Ever read Godwin's Law? You're scrapping the barrel by pulling out Hitler and the Holocaust. Saying that the German nation has only just rejoined the human race is blatant racism. You've basically said that ever man, woman and child in Germany was responsible for the Holocaust even though the vast majority were unaware of it due to propaganda. Was Dietrich Bonhoeffer responsible for the Holocaust too? Claus von Stauffenberg? Eberhard von Breitenbuch? Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist-Schmenzin? Rudolf Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff? Henning von Tresckow? Fabian von Schlabrendorff? Philipp von Boeselager? Hubert Lanz? Hans Speidel? Beppo Römer? Erwin von Witzleben? Erich Kordt? Georg Elser? German Communists? All those in the German resistance? Little German children? Young men who were forcibly sent to their deaths on the eastern front? The list just goes on and on. Your comment is completely unrelated to the article too.
The German government is not representative of how most normal citizens of the EU think.
Iznogoud, because a person is a citizen of a country doesn't mean they have to agree with the country's policies. I agree with the Brit, as a citizen of a country that supports the recognition of Kosovo, I hate that Germans, Americans and their allies are attempting to blackmail Serbia. And to you Mr. Willi Pfaff, you can not hold the Serbs of today responsible for the crimes of Milosevic and his regime. At least the Serbian people fought back against this government. Can the Germans say the same about the government they served in WWII. I support the EU in Serbia for one reason, so that the people of Serbia have rights equal to other European citizens. But maybe being part of an EU that is dictated by such narrow minded politicians may be too much. The "Analyst" is absolutely correct, Kosovo doesn't deserve recognition.
The German official said he did not think there was "a risk of failure in trying to turn Kosovo into a country".
There's no risk, correct. It's already obvious that the idea to turn Kosovo into a democratic, multiethnic country has failed. Kosovo has been turned into a mafia state on European soil, and I would like that this would fail, but I don't think so, unfortunately.
Bravo!!! just read the serbian responses to the German ambassadors statement, and you see that Serbians didn't learn a thing. Serbia will have no place in the EU before they finally come to terms with their past and regognize Kosovo. Anything else is unacceptable to the rest of Europe. Don't fool yourselves, you will not become part of the EU, before you finally accept that reality.
The German government is not representative of how most normal cirizens of the EU think.
***
I might be mistaken, but wasn't your government (elected by the people to represent them) among the first states recognizing Kosovo's independence, dear cirizen "the Brit"?
Germany is most important country in EU and their politicians have said loud and clear "Serbia must recognize Kosova or no EU for you". Jermeic must be going nuts right now:) well, after all it's reality that you can't avoid it.
What business is this of Germany's? Germany's record for threatening other nations is well known - they have only recently rejoined the human race after their involvement in the Holocaust (don't blame it on Hitler - that is too simple).
Perhaps Germany should mind its own busines and not support the break-up of international law.
To all Albanians that will rejoice at this statement just watch and learn that when push comes to shove it is not going to happen. There will be no recognition and no acceptance of Kosovo from the Serbian side.
It all BS. They know it and so does Serbia.
This is another German in Pristina blowing smoke up the US backside. Watch Berlin backtrack on this guy’s statement.
These statements are as regular as clockwork with a statement every now and then that there will be no reversing of the new Kosovo blah, blah. Keeps the Albanians happy I suppose, but maybe the Germans can stop the Dutch from kicking out the 2000 back to Kosovo.
Yeah the same goes for Serbia don't blame it on Milosevic for the masacre in Raçak and for the suffering from 1989 to 1999 for the Kosovar Albanians and even before that.
Germany can ask all it likes - Serbia's position is one that almost all parties agree on and isn't going to change. Serbians should remember that they have a lot of supporters in the "West". The German government is not representative of how most normal cirizens of the EU think.
What business is this of Germany's? Germany's record for threatening other nations is well known - they have only recently rejoined the human race after their involvement in the Holocaust (don't blame it on Hitler - that is too simple).
Perhaps Germany should mind its own busines and not support the break-up of international law.
To all Albanians that will rejoice at this statement just watch and learn that when push comes to shove it is not going to happen. There will be no recognition and no acceptance of Kosovo from the Serbian side.
It all BS. They know it and so does Serbia.
This is another German in Pristina blowing smoke up the US backside. Watch Berlin backtrack on this guy’s statement.
These statements are as regular as clockwork with a statement every now and then that there will be no reversing of the new Kosovo blah, blah. Keeps the Albanians happy I suppose, but maybe the Germans can stop the Dutch from kicking out the 2000 back to Kosovo.
Germany is most important country in EU and their politicians have said loud and clear "Serbia must recognize Kosova or no EU for you". Jermeic must be going nuts right now:) well, after all it's reality that you can't avoid it.
Yeah the same goes for Serbia don't blame it on Milosevic for the masacre in Raçak and for the suffering from 1989 to 1999 for the Kosovar Albanians and even before that.
The German government is not representative of how most normal cirizens of the EU think.
***
I might be mistaken, but wasn't your government (elected by the people to represent them) among the first states recognizing Kosovo's independence, dear cirizen "the Brit"?
Bravo!!! just read the serbian responses to the German ambassadors statement, and you see that Serbians didn't learn a thing. Serbia will have no place in the EU before they finally come to terms with their past and regognize Kosovo. Anything else is unacceptable to the rest of Europe. Don't fool yourselves, you will not become part of the EU, before you finally accept that reality.
Germany can ask all it likes - Serbia's position is one that almost all parties agree on and isn't going to change. Serbians should remember that they have a lot of supporters in the "West". The German government is not representative of how most normal cirizens of the EU think.
The German official said he did not think there was "a risk of failure in trying to turn Kosovo into a country".
There's no risk, correct. It's already obvious that the idea to turn Kosovo into a democratic, multiethnic country has failed. Kosovo has been turned into a mafia state on European soil, and I would like that this would fail, but I don't think so, unfortunately.
The German government is not representative of how most normal citizens of the EU think.
Iznogoud, because a person is a citizen of a country doesn't mean they have to agree with the country's policies. I agree with the Brit, as a citizen of a country that supports the recognition of Kosovo, I hate that Germans, Americans and their allies are attempting to blackmail Serbia. And to you Mr. Willi Pfaff, you can not hold the Serbs of today responsible for the crimes of Milosevic and his regime. At least the Serbian people fought back against this government. Can the Germans say the same about the government they served in WWII. I support the EU in Serbia for one reason, so that the people of Serbia have rights equal to other European citizens. But maybe being part of an EU that is dictated by such narrow minded politicians may be too much. The "Analyst" is absolutely correct, Kosovo doesn't deserve recognition.
Full of fluff Pfaff. Serbia to come to terms with it's glorious past, no problem. Look at the German, Croatian and Albanian past for what is truly revolting.
germans will be soon fighting muslim turkish intruders unless they wish to accept islam - what by the way may happen as all the extremes in europe have come from there or a german speaking country - engels,marx, hitler etc. anyone who follows germany`s economy understands that actually they depend on russians, just like before WWII. And be sure, eventually they "sell" those "illyrians" as they have sold everyone. muslim albanians do not belong to Europe anyway, neither islam, so Serbs do not give up and do not recognize this wannabe state! I believe that one day justice will prevail and KiM will return to her rightful owners - Serbs( hope that "illyrians" do not turn her into MEGA-dump, as it was BIG dump already a couple of yrs ago)
What business is this of Germany's? Germany's record for threatening other nations is well known - they have only recently rejoined the human race after their involvement in the Holocaust (don't blame it on Hitler - that is too simple).
Perhaps Germany should mind its own busines and not support the break-up of international law.
(Chris Wilson, 18 July 2011 11:16)
Ever read Godwin's Law? You're scrapping the barrel by pulling out Hitler and the Holocaust. Saying that the German nation has only just rejoined the human race is blatant racism. You've basically said that ever man, woman and child in Germany was responsible for the Holocaust even though the vast majority were unaware of it due to propaganda. Was Dietrich Bonhoeffer responsible for the Holocaust too? Claus von Stauffenberg? Eberhard von Breitenbuch? Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist-Schmenzin? Rudolf Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff? Henning von Tresckow? Fabian von Schlabrendorff? Philipp von Boeselager? Hubert Lanz? Hans Speidel? Beppo Römer? Erwin von Witzleben? Erich Kordt? Georg Elser? German Communists? All those in the German resistance? Little German children? Young men who were forcibly sent to their deaths on the eastern front? The list just goes on and on. Your comment is completely unrelated to the article too.
"Germany will oppose any threat to Kosovo's sovereignty, its division or change of borders," Steinbach explained..
Ok hmm since when did Kosovo become a German colony?
Kosovo isn't going anywhere so he can speak what he wants, reality is kosovo is not a country, and if Serbia has to recognize Independent Kosovo then so do the other 5 EU members.
You mean don't blame it on Milosevic - that is way to simple...
Ever heard of the expression:
"People who live in a glass house shouldn't throw stones" I think it applies perfectly here.
Germany like it or not is the powerhouse of Europe and it's opinion matters a whole lot.
germans will be soon fighting muslim turkish intruders unless they wish to accept islam - what by the way may happen as all the extremes in europe have come from there or a german speaking country - engels,marx, hitler etc. anyone who follows germany`s economy understands that actually they depend on russians, just like before WWII. And be sure, eventually they "sell" those "illyrians" as they have sold everyone. muslim albanians do not belong to Europe anyway, neither islam, so Serbs do not give up and do not recognize this wannabe state! I believe that one day justice will prevail and KiM will return to her rightful owners - Serbs( hope that "illyrians" do not turn her into MEGA-dump, as it was BIG dump already a couple of yrs ago)
(an estonian, 18 July 2011 14:29)
As an "estonian" you seem quite knowledgeable of Illyrian existence. As a Serb your knowledge is quite poor of Illyrian origin of the Western Ballkans.
There are plenty of jokers in here, but if you insist one more won't make a difference.
believe or not, but i am estonian and not a russian or serb. before working in KiM i had a different point of view on the things down there - but all this muslim-clan-based "historic illyrian" business managed to make me sick - and believe not only me but plenty of other foreigners in different int org-s. just returned from Syria where muslims(formally alawites)rule and live like ... keeping assyrian christians threatened (if they do not behave then...mentality) - and the same thing is going on in KiM. maybe, if the KiM albanians were christians or buddhists or sth - maybe we then would have more in common and problems could be solved in more reasonable manner, but with selfish-racist muslim albanians - no hope (I have read that muslims did not trust christian albanians during the war and suspected them to be pro -serb). though there have been some of albanians here who claim to be christians - may be you are...for instance somebody mr Kelmendi - according to google - is from christian clan, but the familiy itself seeem to be completely criminal spreading their tentacles all over the ex yugo and in rest of europe. Or pardon - some of you say your 1st religion is albanianism - that implies very clearly to supremacy of your group what in turn is called nazism - taking in view that you strive to create ethically pure albanian-inhabited areas, grab the lands of the neighbours and conduct ethnocide of the minorities. by the way KiM albanians, how is Roma Mahalla reconstruction going in South-Mitro?
LOL and when Serbia is "asked" it will say "no". And then what's the EU going to do? Refuse membership? Go ahead. Undermine your credibility even further guys. What a waste of time if it puts recognizing a failed narcostate before a sovereign country :)
What business is this of Germany's? Germany's record for threatening other nations is well known - they have only recently rejoined the human race after their involvement in the Holocaust (don't blame it on Hitler - that is too simple). You're right! Germany even today is hiding the nazis as Austria does... They haven't changed. Wait a bit let's see what will happen next, US is bankrupt, half of EU countries are on the edge of bankruptcy and who will support the mafia state? Germany won't have money for all. But more important is that Serbia don't EU. A dozen of countries in EU are not happy . Denmark is putting back the checkpoints, France is going to do the same, the Czechs want for long time to get out from EU...What couldn't achieve Hitler during the WW2 by force, now Germany by means of money and sarcastic policy wants to achieve. The former Germany's allies are all in EU and now is time for even the mafia state(albanians). Serbia will be if not forever out at least the last of all the European countries to join. Germany wants her revenge and with high price!
LOL and when Serbia is "asked" it will say "no". And then what's the EU going to do? Refuse membership? Go ahead. Undermine your credibility even further guys. What a waste of time if it puts recognizing a failed narcostate before a sovereign country :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 18 July 2011 17:18)
I was excpecting you to say, who is this German ambassador and why there is a German Embassy in Kosova, since "Kosova is Serbia"?, and Germany has a German embassy in Belgrade.
To shade my dear Anthropologist.
I could not agree more with your logical and objective comments. I am afraid that B92 and characters like Roberto are all financed by the same political organization in the USA. It is a pity that B92 is lacking the courage to inform its visitors about its foreign investors and how these people are trying to influence opinions. Of course independently-thinking people like you, me, and fortunately many others can see through all this.
Bravo!!! just read the serbian responses to the German ambassadors statement, and you see that Serbians didn't learn a thing. Serbia will have no place in the EU before they finally come to terms with their past and regognize Kosovo. Anything else is unacceptable to the rest of Europe. Don't fool yourselves, you will not become part of the EU, before you finally accept that reality.
(Willi Pfaff, 18 July 2011 12:54)
What EU are you talking about? Will Serbia join the EU before it implodes? Don’t fool yourself the EU will not wipe its feet on Kosovo and the Albanians as Serbia is a much greater prize.
This has to come from the German government in Berlin not from the likes of its Ambassador in the so called independent Kosovo – he only says what is current policy amongst the so called united allies LOL, LOL, look at NATO and Libya. But in the meantime here is a small part of a speech given by another Ambassador in Saigon, South Vietnam in the early 1975.
“We will stand side by side with our allies and never give up on doing what is right in fight against communism “We are here for the long haul and any suggestion that we will cut and run is purely communist propaganda”
About 6 months later the same man stated that the US had won the war in Vietnam and jumped on a waiting helicopter. About an hour later North Vietnamese tanks rolled through the main gates of the then US embassy.
I hope you get my meaning because if you are a power you do not have to constantly repeat the same message over and over again – you just do what pleases you. The west is no longer a power, but a thorn on a withering vine.
Dream on Steinbach
I agree with you when you say: "only safe borders can bring stability to the Balkans and Europe" So Kosovo is Serbian's southern province!
Nicht alle deutschen Staatsbuerger sind mir der deutschen Aussenpolitik einverstanden und auch viele deutsche Diplomaten sind es nicht.
AA ist nicht mehr was es mal war, LOL
Denken Sie mal darueber nach.
( Not all German citizens agree with German foreign policies and even, lots of German diplomats don't agree. Foreign affaires is no longer what it used to be, LOL
Think about it)
Joachim, German citizen
The issue here is not Germany, the Holocaust, or who fought on which (fascist) side during the 2nd World War. That's just another distraction here as usual, and a very ingenuous one, to say the least.
The issue is: does anyone want Serbia inside the EU, while they continue to torture the people of Kosova and Bosnia, and cause unrest and distress throughout the Balkans. Most normal Europeans do not. Germany might be most articulate on that point, but hardly alone.
One day in the future, the world will see what crap this all was, and how Belgrade merely prolonged the misery of the Balkans for as long as possible. And who does it benefit? Certainly not the "common" people, not in Serbia, nor throughout the former YU. The nationalists always have the same answer: Let them eat nationalism...
And speaking of ww2 and war crimes, an interesting link from the typically excellent bbc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14176379
It means, apparently, that Italian courts allow individuals to sue other countries for war crimes, even those committed 60+ years ago. In this case, we see Greek survivors suing Germany for individual reparations for crimes committed by the Nazis ag. their relatives. Germany is appealing to the World Court, but we'll be following closely. Many survivors fr ww2 could theoretically still sue Germany, incl my own family.
This same route could (and should) be taken by surviving victims in Bosnia and Kosova from the aggression/genocides of the 90s. This is one potential direction that we need to seriously plan for.
LOL and when Serbia is "asked" it will say "no". And then what's the EU going to do? Refuse membership? Go ahead. Undermine your credibility even further guys.
***
You are aware that Serbia has requested membership in the EU, and not the other way around, aren't you? You make it sound like the EU actually wants to join Serbia...
Whose bread I eat, his song I sing. (Since 2007 Serbia has received EU financial aid under the instrument for pre-accession assistance (IPA) for an annual average financial envelope of over €190 million. The allocation for 2011 totals €202,6 million.)
was excpecting you to say, who is this German ambassador and why there is a German Embassy in Kosova, since "Kosova is Serbia"?, and Germany has a German embassy in Belgrade.
To shade my dear Anthropologist.
(Agim Kelmendi, 18 July 2011 18:20)
Funny you should bring that up since the German ambassador to Serbia said something different a few days ago :)
This is common knowledge. Serbia will not go anywhere. Now observe the barrages of Serbian officials in the coming days and weeks, claiming the exact opposite. I will keep counting, if it is countable.
I dont see how this Ambassador can be saying such foolish comments as to Serbia being asked to recognize Kosovo as an independent state. The official EU website lists Kosovo as a potential EU candidate but under Resolution 1244 which reaffirms Serbia's sovereignty. The website also includes Kosovo under the borders of Serbia in the official map of Serbia on the website. Look at it yourselves! Kosovo will never join the EU as a so called "country". It will join the EU in line with UNSC Resolution 1244 and will join the EU as Kosovo(UNSCR 1244). Case closed.
Look at it yourselves if you dont believe me!
B92, why do you allow this provocation to get through?
"The issue is: does anyone want Serbia inside the EU, while they continue to torture the people of Kosova and Bosnia, and cause unrest and distress throughout the Balkans. Most normal Europeans do not. Germany might be most articulate on that point, but hardly alone."
Are you really wanting to alienate all except Albanians? I am sure that you would not allow a Serb posting something like this. Not even close.
The fact that Roberto claim that Serbs are continuing to torture people of Kosovo and Bosnia makes it clear to the rest of us that you have no problem allowing lies and provocations to get through.
How about Roberto explains how exactly Serbia tortures these people and base that on fact before you allow it through?
Does he have exclusive right to say anything he likes however not substantiated where the rest of us would have our posts edited or even not published.
Would be very interesting to hear why this went through.
No amount of nonsense talk from Serbia can change Kosovas independence. Face it Serbia, you chose to be friends with the wrong countries and you followed bad policies and the loss of Kosova is a result.
I love watching Serbia humiliated, squirming and wasting precious time, energy and money into a situation that is not winnable, sort of like all of the wars that they started, but the other countries finished by giving you a much needed batine!
Its Germany again;"Serbia will be asked to recognize Kosovo"
"Germany will oppose any threat to Kosovo sovereignty,its division or
change of borders Stainback explained" "Kosovo has been recognized by
76 Countries"Lets put it in proper perspective what Mr.Stainback said.
There is no Kosovo sovereignty.There is no Kosovo international borders
other then one controlled by Serbian authorities.Most populous Countries on our Planet Earth do not recognize Kosovo independence.This all wishful thinking by Germany mixed with mild but coercive, contradictory, foreign policy to ward Serbia.Not much has change in acrimonious relationship
between these two countries since Congress of Berlin 1878.Without dredging out the troublesome details of last 133 years its appropriate to notice that Germany is still questioning Serbia's independence and territorial integrity vested in Versailles treaty and UN resolution 1244
Only thing we have to say to "our dear German friends"Serbia is here to stay the way it is.Get use to it.
What did Jeremic do now to get the ambassador upset?
How will he spin this?
Germany can ask all it likes - Serbia's position is one that almost all parties agree on and isn't going to change. Serbians should remember that they have a lot of supporters in the "West". The German government is not representative of how most normal cirizens of the EU think.
(The Brit, 18 July 2011 11:36)
What a pitiful argument. One may even feel sorry for you, seeing like you have nothing left to say, except pretending to know how hundreds of millions of people think.
Can someone care to explain when will it be officially ruled that Kosovo is a sovereign nation or will remain a province of Serbia? I'm sure the suspense is bothersome to many,especially to Serbs and Kosovar-Albanians.
Poor CG, you wouldn't realize reality if it hit you over the head.
CG says: "One advice:Save this comment on your harddisk,and wait another decade and you will be saying: "Uh,the good old days,they are over!"
The Truth Chicago says: I've waited a decade already buddy and Kosova's independence occured during this time since the end of the Kosova War (war of liberation). So, with that said, Im delighted with the results of the end of a decade. I will gladly wait another decade for Serbia to accept this reality:)
CG says: "BTW The same EU and US have opened our markets completely for our goods,liberating us from visas,we are participating in the global community and have Russia and China as free trade countries with us!
With good craftsmanship,that gives us the opportunity to grow stronger and stronger while Kosovo Albanians are locked up:UN 1244 clearly says Kosovo is Serbia,UN,EU,NATO blocked forever by our friends etc.!"
The Truth Chicago says: Talk is cheap CG. Serbia is still a transitional economy with unfinished privatization and incomplete structural reforms. Major challenges ahead include: high government expenditures for salaries, pensions and unemployment; a growing need for new government borrowing; rising public and private foreign debt; and stagnant levels of foreign direct investment. Privatization revenues have fallen precipitously in recent years, while a high percentage of economic activity remains in the hands of the state(awful idea). Other serious challenges include an inefficient judicial system, high levels of corruption, and an aging population. Keep dreaming CG.
CG says: "So we Serbs can sit calmy and just wait for the right moment to end the Albanian project once and for all!"
The Truth Chicago says: Serbia had the oppportunity in 1998. The entire "elite" Serbian military was in Kosova and what did they accomplish? Nothing!They retreated BACK to Serbia. To the average observer that appears to be a major failure/loss, but maybe you have insider information and Serbia is waiting to "spring" their trap! hahaha! Oh, you make me laugh CG.
CG says: "I just love to see Albanians coming here on B92 and bragging about how "Kosovo never,never will be part of Serbia","the world is behind us" babbling and ask Serbs to accept "this reality"!
They behave like the boy in the dark forest who is whistling very loudly to camouflage that he is afraid of something!"
The Truth Chicago says: Albanians dont need to brag, they already have Kosova. Just like any independent nation in the world may have trouble making neighbors, Kosova has naughty neighbors that try to cause trouble. Luckily, most of Europe and the USA support Kosova no matter what. It's lovely to see that the countries that most Serbs emmigrate to for a better life are exactly the same countries that support Kosova and not Serbia. Maybe Serbs should start moving to China and North Korea if they dont like it in Europe or USA:)
CG says: "They wouldn`t do this without reason ,they know perfectly what awaits them behind the corner,and so do we Serbs"
The Truth Chicago says: Tell us whats around the corner Nostradamus: Serbia is basing its policy toward Kosovo on a vague hope that regional geopolitics might change to its advantage. This shortsightedness of Serbian policymakers was further revealed in the decision to block the membership of Kosovo in the UN by the Russian veto. While it costs Russia nothing – and, moreover, provides Russia with an effective leverage for expanding its influence over Serbian policy – it does cost Serbia a lot.
It is hard to conceive how much money and energy – not to mention benzene and munitions – Serbia has wasted throughout the years in the attempt to do the undoable. In fact, a group of experts has recently calculated that Kosovo costs Serbian taxpayers 16 euros on average each second! 16 euros each second! Now, try to imagine what would happen if Serbia accepted the more than obvious fact that Kosovo had irreversibly become a neighbour. The two countries could establish diplomatic relations which would not only facilitate their respective economic recoveries but deal with many other challenges not to mention the accession of both to the EU.
However, the Serbian political elite obviously lacks vision and courage to do the right thing and turn the problem into an opportunity. Even worse, judging by the current situation, such posturing doesn’t appear likely to be revised any time soon. Wake up Serberians!
I hope you get my meaning because if you are a power you do not have to constantly repeat the same message over and over again – you just do what pleases you. The west is no longer a power, but a thorn on a withering vine.
(sj, 19 July 2011 00:53)
You must be speaking of the daily press announcements that Serbia will not recognize Kosovo-who are they needing to convince? Or the daily article that recognition of Kosovo is not a prelude to joining the EU-again who are they needing to convince? Before you say the Kosovo Albanians they have no need to convince them, but only their own people.
One advice:Save this comment on your harddisk,and wait another decade and you will be saying: "Uh,the good old days,they are over!"
BTW The same EU and US have opened our markets completely for our goods,liberating us from visas,we are participating in the global community and have Russia and China as free trade countries with us!
With good craftsmanship,that gives us the opportunity to grow stronger and stronger while Kosovo Albanians are locked up:UN 1244 clearly says Kosovo is Serbia,UN,EU,NATO blocked forever by our friends etc.!
So we Serbs can sit calmy and just wait for the right moment to end the Albanian project once and for all!
I just love to see Albanians coming here on B92 and bragging about how "Kosovo never,never will be part of Serbia","the world is behind us" babbling and ask Serbs to accept "this reality"!
They behave like the boy in the dark forest who is whistling very loudly to camouflage that he is afraid of something!
They wouldn`t do this without reason ,they know perfectly what awaits them behind the corner,and so do we Serbs !
You must be speaking of the daily press announcements that Serbia will not recognize Kosovo-who are they needing to convince? Or the daily article that recognition of Kosovo is not a prelude to joining the EU-again who are they needing to convince? Before you say the Kosovo Albanians they have no need to convince them, but only their own people.
(heyhey, 19 July 2011 14:48)
If the west was as powerful as you seem to think it would have the might to tell Tadic to never make a statement on Kosovo which contradicts its interests, but it does not my friend.
Tadic et al have to make statements which contradict people like that German Ambassador because his political life would be zero.
Just look at what Berlin has to say not at one of its minor employees who repeats a current policy. As I have said before if the west was that powerful it would have Belgrade singing from the same page in the hymn book, but it does not.
Read my other statement again on the US Ambassador in South Vietnam and how to the last minutes of that war “it was to stay the course”. That is how quickly a policy can change on the ground. Oh by the way are you aware that your US is talking to Colonel Gaddafi – naturally they are demanding his absolute surerend blah, blah, blah. But the reality is they are bogged down in an unwinnable war that is costing the US so much that next years pensions will be cut by 20%.
This is the third war it has lost and you Albanians think they will hold onto Kosovo for too long – why what do you have apart from 1 million hungry mouths to feed.
Read my other statement again on the US Ambassador in South Vietnam and how to the last minutes of that war “it was to stay the course”. That is how quickly a policy can change on the ground. Oh by the way are you aware that your US is talking to Colonel Gaddafi – naturally they are demanding his absolute surerend blah, blah, blah. But the reality is they are bogged down in an unwinnable war that is costing the US so much that next years pensions will be cut by 20%.
This is the third war it has lost and you Albanians think they will hold onto Kosovo for too long – why what do you have apart from 1 million hungry mouths to feed.
(sj, 20 July 2011 01:24)
Curious as in pensions are you talking about Social Security Pensions, or private sector retirement pensions or personal 401,403, pensions??
I am assuming you are speaking of Social Security which is controlled by the govt. I have yet to have heard that prediction 20% of course that does not mean it is not true since you were probably part of a state dept meeting last week in which a local Serb was invited to attend.
In your question what does Kosovo have other than a million hungry mouths to feed.
Have you not said time and time again that the US involvement had nothing to with humanitarian issues for the Albanians, it is to secure the heavily needed base Camp Bondsteel. As a matter of fact the whole war was enacted for this one purpose, according to you!
Well with Serbia becoming the most sought after country in the world would this base not remain even more important?
Germany can ask all it likes - Serbia's position is one that almost all parties agree on and isn't going to change. Serbians should remember that they have a lot of supporters in the "West". The German government is not representative of how most normal cirizens of the EU think.
What business is this of Germany's? Germany's record for threatening other nations is well known - they have only recently rejoined the human race after their involvement in the Holocaust (don't blame it on Hitler - that is too simple).
Perhaps Germany should mind its own busines and not support the break-up of international law.
To all Albanians that will rejoice at this statement just watch and learn that when push comes to shove it is not going to happen. There will be no recognition and no acceptance of Kosovo from the Serbian side.
It all BS. They know it and so does Serbia.
This is another German in Pristina blowing smoke up the US backside. Watch Berlin backtrack on this guy’s statement.
These statements are as regular as clockwork with a statement every now and then that there will be no reversing of the new Kosovo blah, blah. Keeps the Albanians happy I suppose, but maybe the Germans can stop the Dutch from kicking out the 2000 back to Kosovo.
Bravo!!! just read the serbian responses to the German ambassadors statement, and you see that Serbians didn't learn a thing. Serbia will have no place in the EU before they finally come to terms with their past and regognize Kosovo. Anything else is unacceptable to the rest of Europe. Don't fool yourselves, you will not become part of the EU, before you finally accept that reality.
Yeah the same goes for Serbia don't blame it on Milosevic for the masacre in Raçak and for the suffering from 1989 to 1999 for the Kosovar Albanians and even before that.
Germany is most important country in EU and their politicians have said loud and clear "Serbia must recognize Kosova or no EU for you". Jermeic must be going nuts right now:) well, after all it's reality that you can't avoid it.
germans will be soon fighting muslim turkish intruders unless they wish to accept islam - what by the way may happen as all the extremes in europe have come from there or a german speaking country - engels,marx, hitler etc. anyone who follows germany`s economy understands that actually they depend on russians, just like before WWII. And be sure, eventually they "sell" those "illyrians" as they have sold everyone. muslim albanians do not belong to Europe anyway, neither islam, so Serbs do not give up and do not recognize this wannabe state! I believe that one day justice will prevail and KiM will return to her rightful owners - Serbs( hope that "illyrians" do not turn her into MEGA-dump, as it was BIG dump already a couple of yrs ago)
(an estonian, 18 July 2011 14:29)
As an "estonian" you seem quite knowledgeable of Illyrian existence. As a Serb your knowledge is quite poor of Illyrian origin of the Western Ballkans.
There are plenty of jokers in here, but if you insist one more won't make a difference.
The issue here is not Germany, the Holocaust, or who fought on which (fascist) side during the 2nd World War. That's just another distraction here as usual, and a very ingenuous one, to say the least.
The issue is: does anyone want Serbia inside the EU, while they continue to torture the people of Kosova and Bosnia, and cause unrest and distress throughout the Balkans. Most normal Europeans do not. Germany might be most articulate on that point, but hardly alone.
One day in the future, the world will see what crap this all was, and how Belgrade merely prolonged the misery of the Balkans for as long as possible. And who does it benefit? Certainly not the "common" people, not in Serbia, nor throughout the former YU. The nationalists always have the same answer: Let them eat nationalism...
And speaking of ww2 and war crimes, an interesting link from the typically excellent bbc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14176379
It means, apparently, that Italian courts allow individuals to sue other countries for war crimes, even those committed 60+ years ago. In this case, we see Greek survivors suing Germany for individual reparations for crimes committed by the Nazis ag. their relatives. Germany is appealing to the World Court, but we'll be following closely. Many survivors fr ww2 could theoretically still sue Germany, incl my own family.
This same route could (and should) be taken by surviving victims in Bosnia and Kosova from the aggression/genocides of the 90s. This is one potential direction that we need to seriously plan for.
The German government is not representative of how most normal citizens of the EU think.
Iznogoud, because a person is a citizen of a country doesn't mean they have to agree with the country's policies. I agree with the Brit, as a citizen of a country that supports the recognition of Kosovo, I hate that Germans, Americans and their allies are attempting to blackmail Serbia. And to you Mr. Willi Pfaff, you can not hold the Serbs of today responsible for the crimes of Milosevic and his regime. At least the Serbian people fought back against this government. Can the Germans say the same about the government they served in WWII. I support the EU in Serbia for one reason, so that the people of Serbia have rights equal to other European citizens. But maybe being part of an EU that is dictated by such narrow minded politicians may be too much. The "Analyst" is absolutely correct, Kosovo doesn't deserve recognition.
germans will be soon fighting muslim turkish intruders unless they wish to accept islam - what by the way may happen as all the extremes in europe have come from there or a german speaking country - engels,marx, hitler etc. anyone who follows germany`s economy understands that actually they depend on russians, just like before WWII. And be sure, eventually they "sell" those "illyrians" as they have sold everyone. muslim albanians do not belong to Europe anyway, neither islam, so Serbs do not give up and do not recognize this wannabe state! I believe that one day justice will prevail and KiM will return to her rightful owners - Serbs( hope that "illyrians" do not turn her into MEGA-dump, as it was BIG dump already a couple of yrs ago)
The German official said he did not think there was "a risk of failure in trying to turn Kosovo into a country".
There's no risk, correct. It's already obvious that the idea to turn Kosovo into a democratic, multiethnic country has failed. Kosovo has been turned into a mafia state on European soil, and I would like that this would fail, but I don't think so, unfortunately.
The German government is not representative of how most normal cirizens of the EU think.
***
I might be mistaken, but wasn't your government (elected by the people to represent them) among the first states recognizing Kosovo's independence, dear cirizen "the Brit"?
LOL and when Serbia is "asked" it will say "no". And then what's the EU going to do? Refuse membership? Go ahead. Undermine your credibility even further guys. What a waste of time if it puts recognizing a failed narcostate before a sovereign country :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 18 July 2011 17:18)
I was excpecting you to say, who is this German ambassador and why there is a German Embassy in Kosova, since "Kosova is Serbia"?, and Germany has a German embassy in Belgrade.
To shade my dear Anthropologist.
What business is this of Germany's? Germany's record for threatening other nations is well known - they have only recently rejoined the human race after their involvement in the Holocaust (don't blame it on Hitler - that is too simple). You're right! Germany even today is hiding the nazis as Austria does... They haven't changed. Wait a bit let's see what will happen next, US is bankrupt, half of EU countries are on the edge of bankruptcy and who will support the mafia state? Germany won't have money for all. But more important is that Serbia don't EU. A dozen of countries in EU are not happy . Denmark is putting back the checkpoints, France is going to do the same, the Czechs want for long time to get out from EU...What couldn't achieve Hitler during the WW2 by force, now Germany by means of money and sarcastic policy wants to achieve. The former Germany's allies are all in EU and now is time for even the mafia state(albanians). Serbia will be if not forever out at least the last of all the European countries to join. Germany wants her revenge and with high price!
LOL and when Serbia is "asked" it will say "no". And then what's the EU going to do? Refuse membership? Go ahead. Undermine your credibility even further guys. What a waste of time if it puts recognizing a failed narcostate before a sovereign country :)
Full of fluff Pfaff. Serbia to come to terms with it's glorious past, no problem. Look at the German, Croatian and Albanian past for what is truly revolting.
believe or not, but i am estonian and not a russian or serb. before working in KiM i had a different point of view on the things down there - but all this muslim-clan-based "historic illyrian" business managed to make me sick - and believe not only me but plenty of other foreigners in different int org-s. just returned from Syria where muslims(formally alawites)rule and live like ... keeping assyrian christians threatened (if they do not behave then...mentality) - and the same thing is going on in KiM. maybe, if the KiM albanians were christians or buddhists or sth - maybe we then would have more in common and problems could be solved in more reasonable manner, but with selfish-racist muslim albanians - no hope (I have read that muslims did not trust christian albanians during the war and suspected them to be pro -serb). though there have been some of albanians here who claim to be christians - may be you are...for instance somebody mr Kelmendi - according to google - is from christian clan, but the familiy itself seeem to be completely criminal spreading their tentacles all over the ex yugo and in rest of europe. Or pardon - some of you say your 1st religion is albanianism - that implies very clearly to supremacy of your group what in turn is called nazism - taking in view that you strive to create ethically pure albanian-inhabited areas, grab the lands of the neighbours and conduct ethnocide of the minorities. by the way KiM albanians, how is Roma Mahalla reconstruction going in South-Mitro?
"Germany will oppose any threat to Kosovo's sovereignty, its division or change of borders," Steinbach explained..
Ok hmm since when did Kosovo become a German colony?
Kosovo isn't going anywhere so he can speak what he wants, reality is kosovo is not a country, and if Serbia has to recognize Independent Kosovo then so do the other 5 EU members.
B92, why do you allow this provocation to get through?
"The issue is: does anyone want Serbia inside the EU, while they continue to torture the people of Kosova and Bosnia, and cause unrest and distress throughout the Balkans. Most normal Europeans do not. Germany might be most articulate on that point, but hardly alone."
Are you really wanting to alienate all except Albanians? I am sure that you would not allow a Serb posting something like this. Not even close.
The fact that Roberto claim that Serbs are continuing to torture people of Kosovo and Bosnia makes it clear to the rest of us that you have no problem allowing lies and provocations to get through.
How about Roberto explains how exactly Serbia tortures these people and base that on fact before you allow it through?
Does he have exclusive right to say anything he likes however not substantiated where the rest of us would have our posts edited or even not published.
Would be very interesting to hear why this went through.
I could not agree more with your logical and objective comments. I am afraid that B92 and characters like Roberto are all financed by the same political organization in the USA. It is a pity that B92 is lacking the courage to inform its visitors about its foreign investors and how these people are trying to influence opinions. Of course independently-thinking people like you, me, and fortunately many others can see through all this.
This is common knowledge. Serbia will not go anywhere. Now observe the barrages of Serbian officials in the coming days and weeks, claiming the exact opposite. I will keep counting, if it is countable.
Dream on Steinbach
I agree with you when you say: "only safe borders can bring stability to the Balkans and Europe" So Kosovo is Serbian's southern province!
Nicht alle deutschen Staatsbuerger sind mir der deutschen Aussenpolitik einverstanden und auch viele deutsche Diplomaten sind es nicht.
AA ist nicht mehr was es mal war, LOL
Denken Sie mal darueber nach.
( Not all German citizens agree with German foreign policies and even, lots of German diplomats don't agree. Foreign affaires is no longer what it used to be, LOL
Think about it)
Joachim, German citizen
No amount of nonsense talk from Serbia can change Kosovas independence. Face it Serbia, you chose to be friends with the wrong countries and you followed bad policies and the loss of Kosova is a result.
I love watching Serbia humiliated, squirming and wasting precious time, energy and money into a situation that is not winnable, sort of like all of the wars that they started, but the other countries finished by giving you a much needed batine!
What business is this of Germany's? Germany's record for threatening other nations is well known - they have only recently rejoined the human race after their involvement in the Holocaust (don't blame it on Hitler - that is too simple).
Perhaps Germany should mind its own busines and not support the break-up of international law.
(Chris Wilson, 18 July 2011 11:16)
Ever read Godwin's Law? You're scrapping the barrel by pulling out Hitler and the Holocaust. Saying that the German nation has only just rejoined the human race is blatant racism. You've basically said that ever man, woman and child in Germany was responsible for the Holocaust even though the vast majority were unaware of it due to propaganda. Was Dietrich Bonhoeffer responsible for the Holocaust too? Claus von Stauffenberg? Eberhard von Breitenbuch? Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist-Schmenzin? Rudolf Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff? Henning von Tresckow? Fabian von Schlabrendorff? Philipp von Boeselager? Hubert Lanz? Hans Speidel? Beppo Römer? Erwin von Witzleben? Erich Kordt? Georg Elser? German Communists? All those in the German resistance? Little German children? Young men who were forcibly sent to their deaths on the eastern front? The list just goes on and on. Your comment is completely unrelated to the article too.
Bravo!!! just read the serbian responses to the German ambassadors statement, and you see that Serbians didn't learn a thing. Serbia will have no place in the EU before they finally come to terms with their past and regognize Kosovo. Anything else is unacceptable to the rest of Europe. Don't fool yourselves, you will not become part of the EU, before you finally accept that reality.
(Willi Pfaff, 18 July 2011 12:54)
What EU are you talking about? Will Serbia join the EU before it implodes? Don’t fool yourself the EU will not wipe its feet on Kosovo and the Albanians as Serbia is a much greater prize.
This has to come from the German government in Berlin not from the likes of its Ambassador in the so called independent Kosovo – he only says what is current policy amongst the so called united allies LOL, LOL, look at NATO and Libya. But in the meantime here is a small part of a speech given by another Ambassador in Saigon, South Vietnam in the early 1975.
“We will stand side by side with our allies and never give up on doing what is right in fight against communism “We are here for the long haul and any suggestion that we will cut and run is purely communist propaganda”
About 6 months later the same man stated that the US had won the war in Vietnam and jumped on a waiting helicopter. About an hour later North Vietnamese tanks rolled through the main gates of the then US embassy.
I hope you get my meaning because if you are a power you do not have to constantly repeat the same message over and over again – you just do what pleases you. The west is no longer a power, but a thorn on a withering vine.
LOL and when Serbia is "asked" it will say "no". And then what's the EU going to do? Refuse membership? Go ahead. Undermine your credibility even further guys.
***
You are aware that Serbia has requested membership in the EU, and not the other way around, aren't you? You make it sound like the EU actually wants to join Serbia...
Whose bread I eat, his song I sing. (Since 2007 Serbia has received EU financial aid under the instrument for pre-accession assistance (IPA) for an annual average financial envelope of over €190 million. The allocation for 2011 totals €202,6 million.)
was excpecting you to say, who is this German ambassador and why there is a German Embassy in Kosova, since "Kosova is Serbia"?, and Germany has a German embassy in Belgrade.
To shade my dear Anthropologist.
(Agim Kelmendi, 18 July 2011 18:20)
Funny you should bring that up since the German ambassador to Serbia said something different a few days ago :)
What did Jeremic do now to get the ambassador upset?
How will he spin this?
Germany can ask all it likes - Serbia's position is one that almost all parties agree on and isn't going to change. Serbians should remember that they have a lot of supporters in the "West". The German government is not representative of how most normal cirizens of the EU think.
(The Brit, 18 July 2011 11:36)
What a pitiful argument. One may even feel sorry for you, seeing like you have nothing left to say, except pretending to know how hundreds of millions of people think.
I dont see how this Ambassador can be saying such foolish comments as to Serbia being asked to recognize Kosovo as an independent state. The official EU website lists Kosovo as a potential EU candidate but under Resolution 1244 which reaffirms Serbia's sovereignty. The website also includes Kosovo under the borders of Serbia in the official map of Serbia on the website. Look at it yourselves! Kosovo will never join the EU as a so called "country". It will join the EU in line with UNSC Resolution 1244 and will join the EU as Kosovo(UNSCR 1244). Case closed.
Look at it yourselves if you dont believe me!
One advice:Save this comment on your harddisk,and wait another decade and you will be saying: "Uh,the good old days,they are over!"
BTW The same EU and US have opened our markets completely for our goods,liberating us from visas,we are participating in the global community and have Russia and China as free trade countries with us!
With good craftsmanship,that gives us the opportunity to grow stronger and stronger while Kosovo Albanians are locked up:UN 1244 clearly says Kosovo is Serbia,UN,EU,NATO blocked forever by our friends etc.!
So we Serbs can sit calmy and just wait for the right moment to end the Albanian project once and for all!
I just love to see Albanians coming here on B92 and bragging about how "Kosovo never,never will be part of Serbia","the world is behind us" babbling and ask Serbs to accept "this reality"!
They behave like the boy in the dark forest who is whistling very loudly to camouflage that he is afraid of something!
They wouldn`t do this without reason ,they know perfectly what awaits them behind the corner,and so do we Serbs !
Its Germany again;"Serbia will be asked to recognize Kosovo"
"Germany will oppose any threat to Kosovo sovereignty,its division or
change of borders Stainback explained" "Kosovo has been recognized by
76 Countries"Lets put it in proper perspective what Mr.Stainback said.
There is no Kosovo sovereignty.There is no Kosovo international borders
other then one controlled by Serbian authorities.Most populous Countries on our Planet Earth do not recognize Kosovo independence.This all wishful thinking by Germany mixed with mild but coercive, contradictory, foreign policy to ward Serbia.Not much has change in acrimonious relationship
between these two countries since Congress of Berlin 1878.Without dredging out the troublesome details of last 133 years its appropriate to notice that Germany is still questioning Serbia's independence and territorial integrity vested in Versailles treaty and UN resolution 1244
Only thing we have to say to "our dear German friends"Serbia is here to stay the way it is.Get use to it.
Poor CG, you wouldn't realize reality if it hit you over the head.
CG says: "One advice:Save this comment on your harddisk,and wait another decade and you will be saying: "Uh,the good old days,they are over!"
The Truth Chicago says: I've waited a decade already buddy and Kosova's independence occured during this time since the end of the Kosova War (war of liberation). So, with that said, Im delighted with the results of the end of a decade. I will gladly wait another decade for Serbia to accept this reality:)
CG says: "BTW The same EU and US have opened our markets completely for our goods,liberating us from visas,we are participating in the global community and have Russia and China as free trade countries with us!
With good craftsmanship,that gives us the opportunity to grow stronger and stronger while Kosovo Albanians are locked up:UN 1244 clearly says Kosovo is Serbia,UN,EU,NATO blocked forever by our friends etc.!"
The Truth Chicago says: Talk is cheap CG. Serbia is still a transitional economy with unfinished privatization and incomplete structural reforms. Major challenges ahead include: high government expenditures for salaries, pensions and unemployment; a growing need for new government borrowing; rising public and private foreign debt; and stagnant levels of foreign direct investment. Privatization revenues have fallen precipitously in recent years, while a high percentage of economic activity remains in the hands of the state(awful idea). Other serious challenges include an inefficient judicial system, high levels of corruption, and an aging population. Keep dreaming CG.
CG says: "So we Serbs can sit calmy and just wait for the right moment to end the Albanian project once and for all!"
The Truth Chicago says: Serbia had the oppportunity in 1998. The entire "elite" Serbian military was in Kosova and what did they accomplish? Nothing!They retreated BACK to Serbia. To the average observer that appears to be a major failure/loss, but maybe you have insider information and Serbia is waiting to "spring" their trap! hahaha! Oh, you make me laugh CG.
CG says: "I just love to see Albanians coming here on B92 and bragging about how "Kosovo never,never will be part of Serbia","the world is behind us" babbling and ask Serbs to accept "this reality"!
They behave like the boy in the dark forest who is whistling very loudly to camouflage that he is afraid of something!"
The Truth Chicago says: Albanians dont need to brag, they already have Kosova. Just like any independent nation in the world may have trouble making neighbors, Kosova has naughty neighbors that try to cause trouble. Luckily, most of Europe and the USA support Kosova no matter what. It's lovely to see that the countries that most Serbs emmigrate to for a better life are exactly the same countries that support Kosova and not Serbia. Maybe Serbs should start moving to China and North Korea if they dont like it in Europe or USA:)
CG says: "They wouldn`t do this without reason ,they know perfectly what awaits them behind the corner,and so do we Serbs"
The Truth Chicago says: Tell us whats around the corner Nostradamus: Serbia is basing its policy toward Kosovo on a vague hope that regional geopolitics might change to its advantage. This shortsightedness of Serbian policymakers was further revealed in the decision to block the membership of Kosovo in the UN by the Russian veto. While it costs Russia nothing – and, moreover, provides Russia with an effective leverage for expanding its influence over Serbian policy – it does cost Serbia a lot.
It is hard to conceive how much money and energy – not to mention benzene and munitions – Serbia has wasted throughout the years in the attempt to do the undoable. In fact, a group of experts has recently calculated that Kosovo costs Serbian taxpayers 16 euros on average each second! 16 euros each second! Now, try to imagine what would happen if Serbia accepted the more than obvious fact that Kosovo had irreversibly become a neighbour. The two countries could establish diplomatic relations which would not only facilitate their respective economic recoveries but deal with many other challenges not to mention the accession of both to the EU.
However, the Serbian political elite obviously lacks vision and courage to do the right thing and turn the problem into an opportunity. Even worse, judging by the current situation, such posturing doesn’t appear likely to be revised any time soon. Wake up Serberians!
You mean don't blame it on Milosevic - that is way to simple...
Ever heard of the expression:
"People who live in a glass house shouldn't throw stones" I think it applies perfectly here.
Germany like it or not is the powerhouse of Europe and it's opinion matters a whole lot.
Can someone care to explain when will it be officially ruled that Kosovo is a sovereign nation or will remain a province of Serbia? I'm sure the suspense is bothersome to many,especially to Serbs and Kosovar-Albanians.
You must be speaking of the daily press announcements that Serbia will not recognize Kosovo-who are they needing to convince? Or the daily article that recognition of Kosovo is not a prelude to joining the EU-again who are they needing to convince? Before you say the Kosovo Albanians they have no need to convince them, but only their own people.
(heyhey, 19 July 2011 14:48)
If the west was as powerful as you seem to think it would have the might to tell Tadic to never make a statement on Kosovo which contradicts its interests, but it does not my friend.
Tadic et al have to make statements which contradict people like that German Ambassador because his political life would be zero.
Just look at what Berlin has to say not at one of its minor employees who repeats a current policy. As I have said before if the west was that powerful it would have Belgrade singing from the same page in the hymn book, but it does not.
Read my other statement again on the US Ambassador in South Vietnam and how to the last minutes of that war “it was to stay the course”. That is how quickly a policy can change on the ground. Oh by the way are you aware that your US is talking to Colonel Gaddafi – naturally they are demanding his absolute surerend blah, blah, blah. But the reality is they are bogged down in an unwinnable war that is costing the US so much that next years pensions will be cut by 20%.
This is the third war it has lost and you Albanians think they will hold onto Kosovo for too long – why what do you have apart from 1 million hungry mouths to feed.
I hope you get my meaning because if you are a power you do not have to constantly repeat the same message over and over again – you just do what pleases you. The west is no longer a power, but a thorn on a withering vine.
(sj, 19 July 2011 00:53)
You must be speaking of the daily press announcements that Serbia will not recognize Kosovo-who are they needing to convince? Or the daily article that recognition of Kosovo is not a prelude to joining the EU-again who are they needing to convince? Before you say the Kosovo Albanians they have no need to convince them, but only their own people.
Read my other statement again on the US Ambassador in South Vietnam and how to the last minutes of that war “it was to stay the course”. That is how quickly a policy can change on the ground. Oh by the way are you aware that your US is talking to Colonel Gaddafi – naturally they are demanding his absolute surerend blah, blah, blah. But the reality is they are bogged down in an unwinnable war that is costing the US so much that next years pensions will be cut by 20%.
This is the third war it has lost and you Albanians think they will hold onto Kosovo for too long – why what do you have apart from 1 million hungry mouths to feed.
(sj, 20 July 2011 01:24)
Curious as in pensions are you talking about Social Security Pensions, or private sector retirement pensions or personal 401,403, pensions??
I am assuming you are speaking of Social Security which is controlled by the govt. I have yet to have heard that prediction 20% of course that does not mean it is not true since you were probably part of a state dept meeting last week in which a local Serb was invited to attend.
In your question what does Kosovo have other than a million hungry mouths to feed.
Have you not said time and time again that the US involvement had nothing to with humanitarian issues for the Albanians, it is to secure the heavily needed base Camp Bondsteel. As a matter of fact the whole war was enacted for this one purpose, according to you!
Well with Serbia becoming the most sought after country in the world would this base not remain even more important?
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