"Big powers against UN-mandate organ trafficking probe"
The U.S., Britain and France are hindering Serbia's request for the investigation into human organ trafficking in Kosovo to be conducted under the UN mandate.
It does not need to be a UN member precisely because America, Germany, France and UK are big powers and all it matters is their recognition. Only countries which only have the support of small powers try to get recognition via the UN.
(icj1, 12 July 2011 05:03)
============================
So if you know someone influential, to Hell with legalities.
Mafia mentality.
man oh man, do some of you have a screwed-up way of identity.
we? we?
This isn't defending a sport's team. If someone commits a crime, it's a bad person doing a bad thing. Why would I feel badly, or personally attacked somehow by someone being in court over a crime?
LOL.. when crimes are committed by the West and their partners in crime they cover them up, just like this organ trafficking case. The most recent is called the Dasht-i-Leili massacre or shall we say genocide? Check
[link]
[link]
[link]
(Zoran, 11 July 2011 21:11)
Thanks for bringing the links above which show that the alleged crimes described in those links were not committed by West but by somebody else.
Whether we shall say genocide or not depends on the arguments that you still have to bring; i.e. take the definition of genocide from international criminal law, apply it the factual situation and then tell us how exactly that factual situation fits the definition of the elements of the crime of genocide. Just because some people were allegedly killed it is not automatically genocide. The crime of genocide has many more legal elements to be satisfied.
In other words, war criminals attempting to lecture Serbians about war crimes? That's why we show them our middle finger.
(Zoran, 11 July 2011 21:11)
Dude, the war criminals who have committed genocide beyond reasonable doubt as proved since 10 yrs ago in the Krstic case are the Serbians in Bosnia. So yes, I fully agree, you should show them your middle finger.
Marti said he will provide the evidence as soon as a competent investigative authority is in place (i.e. UN authorised) and a proper witness protection system operative. So far nothing.
(Zoran, 11 July 2011 21:11)
It’s not Marti who decides who should investigate. Nobody gave that power to him
What happened to America, Germany, France and the UK? Aren't they big powers? If so, why is Kosovo not a UN member?
(Franky Bayern, 11 July 2011 19:12)
It does not need to be a UN member precisely because America, Germany, France and UK are big powers and all it matters is their recognition. Only countries which only have the support of small powers try to get recognition via the UN.
I think EULEX should do it and I don't understand why Serbia is hindering the investigation. To use Vuk's words, I would like to believe that, in the weeks to come, we will manage to overcome the obstacle and achieve progress. If that does not happen, it will be extremely difficult to resist the impression that there is something in the case of human organ trafficking in Kosovo that, for some reason, should by no means see the light of day
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
(Analyst, 11 July 2011 18:11)
Serbs who have already pronounced Albanians guilty without any factual evidence that the crime even occurred are basically the same as the perpetrators of Srebenica because wasn't that their justification, the older males were guilty and the younger would grow up to be guilty.
Only reason they'd be against the probe being conducted by an independent organisation would be if they knew there was something to hide, What this is basically saying, is that organ trafficking did take place, and the US knows it
(New Zealander, 11 July 2011 21:43)
Simple ravings of someone who desperately wants it to be true and knows it is not.
Using any means to point guilt other than actual evidence.
Only reason they'd be against the probe being conducted by an independent organisation would be if they knew there was something to hide, What this is basically saying, is that organ trafficking did take place, and the US knows it
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
(Analyst, 11 July 2011 18:11)
well, you need to be bit naive in best case to draw that parallel.
While in Srebrenica the crime not only that is hugely materially documented but also it was found by the UN court to be the only genocide in Europe after the WW2.
And for the alleged crimes in Kosova we still need to find the first body or at least a name of person that was victim.
Forensic teams in Srebrenica have already given identity to over 7,000 civilians, their names surnames etc. For the Kosova's alleged crimes not a SINGLE body but there is not even a SINGLE NAME that has been provided up to date.
So you are comparing apples with oranges... I guess you will say they are both fruits.. sure...
When facts are there the WORLD ACTS.
(Creative Rationality, 11 July 2011 14:46)
--
LOL.. when crimes are committed by the West and their partners in crime they cover them up, just like this organ trafficking case. The most recent is called the Dasht-i-Leili massacre or shall we say genocide? Check
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/opinion/14tue2.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/sep/14/afghanistan.lukeharding
http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/07/13/the-convoy-of-death-will-obama-investigate-the-afghan-massacre-of-november-2001
In other words, war criminals attempting to lecture Serbians about war crimes? That's why we show them our middle finger.
Marti said he will provide the evidence as soon as a competent investigative authority is in place (i.e. UN authorised) and a proper witness protection system operative. So far nothing.
"Big powers against UN-mandate organ trafficking probe"
This is an extreme lie! There is a clear statement that an ivestigation has to and will take place.
What bother you is that some countries simply draw a line preventing that some egocentric politicians in and around Belgrade can try to turn a serious investigation in a smear campaign for their subversive policy of distrust and hate-mongery. You are not interested in the truth. You are only interested to point fingers and divert the own and real guilt. That will not find support!
"The fact you try to internationalise this fary tale says that you are not reqady for reconciliation ..."
(ben, 11 July 2011 11:51)
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
(Analyst, 11 July 2011 18:11)
No one is denying anything, but remeber that two investigations were done by UNMIK and ICTY, and the results were zilch.
Having said that, I am wondering why Tadic is not taking part in a summit being held ih Ohrid,Macedonia???
I am wondering if Tadic and Vuk ever meet to talk about anything!. It seems like evry time Serbiasubmittes something , their politicians are like strangers on everything Serbia does. If this is intentionally done, I say is ver dumb, if not intentionally is even dumber.
"The fact you try to internationalise this fary tale says that you are not reqady for reconciliation ..."
(ben, 11 July 2011 11:51)
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
Just like the so-called 'big powers' tolerated too long the wrongdoings of Milosevic in the Balkans for the sake of stability, they make a similar mistake again by tolerating criminals being in power in Kosovo.
When will we find who did what? This organ trade scandal is not in favour off some big european countries. Especially the the french guy Bernard Kuchner ? ... So they do anything to obstruct real investigation.
When will we find who did what? This organ trade scandal is not in favour off some big european countries. Especially the the french guy Bernard Kuchner ? ... So they do anything to obstruct real investigation.
The Western world does not want to mess up with Serbian fairy tales. The world wants facts not want-to-be-true gossips.
When facts are there the WORLD ACTS. Look at Srebrenica genocide, expulsion of Sebrs in Krajina (Croatia), Vukovar, Sarajevo,Recak in Kosovo, etc. The world initiated proceedings against each case once real facts came about.
Serbs MUST admit the collective guilt, apologise and pay reparations before the reconciliation can begin. Once Serbs do this then it is moral that other do for their portion of crimes committed even though the crimes of other against Serbs can not be put on the same level as Serbian genocides.
Real Canadian, the investigation did not come from Serbia. It came from a Swiss investigator and was confirmed by the former Hague prosecutor. Would you allow the mafia to investigate their own crimes? This is what you and pss are asking.
The UN is the most competent body and will be funded by the UN budget.
(Swede, 11 July 2011 12:33)
Twisting the facts are we?
1.Organ trade claims were made by the Serbs
2.UN investigated but found nothing of a kind
3.The Hague Prosecutor mentioned in the book
4.The Serbian propagande made a big deal out of it
5.Marty gave his famous report with no evidence to back it up
6.Serbian Politicians tried to portray themselves as the victims of ruthless Albanians and tried to politicize the whole thing
7.Eulex and the Big powers said provide the evidence to the competent authorities (in this case EULEX)
8.No evidence to this day!!!
So nice try...
Libya has shown the World that the Greatest Permanent Threat to Global Peace, Security, and Justice on this Planet are the Five Permanent Veto Holding Members of the United Nations Security Council.
This is reconfirmed by the Usual Culprits of England, France, and America, and Serbia should bring the following Resolutions to the United Nations General Assembly as soon a possible.
Unless the United Nations is Seriously and Properly Reformed, then the smaller Countries would be wise not to grant this Evil and Corrupt Organization any more legitimacy.
They can do that by withdrawing their membership from the United Nations Organization, or by bringing certain matters to the General Assembly for a Vote.
This is because these small Countries will Legitimize their own extinction, and that is why they should leave, and they should makes lots of noise while doing it, and continue to make noise after they leave that Evil Corrupt Organization.
The General Assembly of the United Nations needs to bring several Vital Matters to a Vote, unless they are just waiting for their own extinction.
The first Reform should be that there are 11 Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council.
Another Reform should be the Abstaining to Vote on any Resolution by any Permanent Member of the United Nations Security Council is a VETO and a NO Vote just like the United Nations Charter says.
We have seen this Evil Corrupt United Nations Organization set up Courts that are a Travesty of Justice, and are only needed to Pervert the Course of Justice, especially for Anglo-French interests.
There is more than enough Criminals in the Five Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council to keep any Court busy for a long, long time.
A Classic Example of a Corrupt Court that the United Nations Security Council set up is the International Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, or ICTY.
The other Corrupt Court is the International Criminal Court, or ICC, which is properly known as the International Criminal Cabal.
The boss of the International Criminal Court is called Ocampo, and if he is Camp, then American can blackmail him to Pervert the Course of Justice, because that is what Perverts like to do.
Another Reform is that there will never be the Freezing of any Countries Assets, or the placing of Economic Sanctions on any Country; because, Freezing Assets and Economic Sanctions are Genocide, and they are War Crimes, and they are Crimes against Humanity.
Another Reform is that a Vote by two thirds Vote by the General Assembly of the United Nations overrides and is a Veto for anything the 11 Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council may pass.
Another Reform is that Only the General Assembly by a two thirds Vote of the General Assembly of the United Nations can authorize war.
Another Reform is that if there is to be any International Criminal Court, then the Past and Present Leaders of the Five Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council Must be the First to go to Trial, because the Five Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council Should lead by Example.
There could be People who are wondering if President Tadic was trying to help the DS NATO Candidates by deliberately upsetting the Moroccans and the Algerians over the Reception for the OSCE, in order for the Arab world not to Vote for such Resolutions at the United Nations General Assembly.
My opinion is that if the Moroccans and Algerians were able to attend the OSCE session as Observers, then they should have been invited to the Reception.
Real Canadian, the investigation did not come from Serbia. It came from a Swiss investigator and was confirmed by the former Hague prosecutor. Would you allow the mafia to investigate their own crimes? This is what you and pss are asking.
The UN is the most competent body and will be funded by the UN budget.
1) If all the organ trafficking accusation is baseless and bogus - than why be against investigation by U.N.?
2) If someone is against investigation of a crime - he is at least an accomplice.
(Ataman, 11 July 2011 11:29)
United States, Britain, France, Germany and the mafia in Pristina form a large part of the joint criminal enterprise. I'm not surprised they want to cover up this crime.
(Swede, 11 July 2011 11:19)
conspiracy theories nothing more...looking for someone to blame for no evidence...EULEX is supported by all 27 EU members and you dont trust them? why the heck you want to join the Union that you have no faith in? The big powers are calling your bluff as I see it. Provide the evidence or you be ridiculed for lying to the whole world.
United States, Britain, France, Germany and the mafia in Pristina form a large part of the joint criminal enterprise. I'm not surprised they want to cover up this crime.
Big powers are agains the Serbian BS and racist propaganda.
You will never manage to place in same level the crimes that Serbia made in Kosova with alegeded crimes yet to be proven if they exist of some small group.
The fact you try to internationalise this fary tale says that you are not reqady for reconciliation and that you faschist Milosevic culture is still well alive. But you know that we are much much stronger than your fascism so what's the point??
1) If all the organ trafficking accusation is baseless and bogus - than why be against investigation by U.N.?
2) If someone is against investigation of a crime - he is at least an accomplice.
(Ataman, 11 July 2011 11:29)
But the key thing here is that none are against an investigation, as a matter of fact they (US, UK, France) are pretty much financing the whole thing. They have confidence in Eulex and do not see the need for the creation of another entity that they would also have to be the primary funders.
Would you expect if there were a crime in Serbia for Serbia to say "we do not feel our police and intelligence service is capable of performing an adequate investigation"? Why would you expect the countries comprising EULEX to do so?
The involvement of UNMIK is a joke in that they no longer have any investigators, prosecutors, judges on their payroll, they are limited to diplomatic duties at most.
My question is if the resolution drafted by Serbia calls for Eulex with the cooperation of Unmik to investigate these crimes, and this is already in motion, why do you think you need a UN mandate.
And if these countries are supportive of the same agencies, and financing the entire operation, why would you accuse them of having something to hide.
But since Serbia drafted the OSCE resolution calling for EULEX to do the investigation, that really removes any reason for them to oppose a mandate from the UNSC on the matter. The matter of dissension has always been who would be in charge of the investigation and it seems that Serbia has come around.
1) If all the organ trafficking accusation is baseless and bogus - than why be against investigation by U.N.?
2) If someone is against investigation of a crime - he is at least an accomplice.
United States, Britain, France, Germany and the mafia in Pristina form a large part of the joint criminal enterprise. I'm not surprised they want to cover up this crime.
1) If all the organ trafficking accusation is baseless and bogus - than why be against investigation by U.N.?
2) If someone is against investigation of a crime - he is at least an accomplice.
Real Canadian, the investigation did not come from Serbia. It came from a Swiss investigator and was confirmed by the former Hague prosecutor. Would you allow the mafia to investigate their own crimes? This is what you and pss are asking.
The UN is the most competent body and will be funded by the UN budget.
When will we find who did what? This organ trade scandal is not in favour off some big european countries. Especially the the french guy Bernard Kuchner ? ... So they do anything to obstruct real investigation.
When will we find who did what? This organ trade scandal is not in favour off some big european countries. Especially the the french guy Bernard Kuchner ? ... So they do anything to obstruct real investigation.
The Western world does not want to mess up with Serbian fairy tales. The world wants facts not want-to-be-true gossips.
When facts are there the WORLD ACTS. Look at Srebrenica genocide, expulsion of Sebrs in Krajina (Croatia), Vukovar, Sarajevo,Recak in Kosovo, etc. The world initiated proceedings against each case once real facts came about.
Serbs MUST admit the collective guilt, apologise and pay reparations before the reconciliation can begin. Once Serbs do this then it is moral that other do for their portion of crimes committed even though the crimes of other against Serbs can not be put on the same level as Serbian genocides.
1) If all the organ trafficking accusation is baseless and bogus - than why be against investigation by U.N.?
2) If someone is against investigation of a crime - he is at least an accomplice.
(Ataman, 11 July 2011 11:29)
United States, Britain, France, Germany and the mafia in Pristina form a large part of the joint criminal enterprise. I'm not surprised they want to cover up this crime.
(Swede, 11 July 2011 11:19)
conspiracy theories nothing more...looking for someone to blame for no evidence...EULEX is supported by all 27 EU members and you dont trust them? why the heck you want to join the Union that you have no faith in? The big powers are calling your bluff as I see it. Provide the evidence or you be ridiculed for lying to the whole world.
Just like the so-called 'big powers' tolerated too long the wrongdoings of Milosevic in the Balkans for the sake of stability, they make a similar mistake again by tolerating criminals being in power in Kosovo.
Big powers are agains the Serbian BS and racist propaganda.
You will never manage to place in same level the crimes that Serbia made in Kosova with alegeded crimes yet to be proven if they exist of some small group.
The fact you try to internationalise this fary tale says that you are not reqady for reconciliation and that you faschist Milosevic culture is still well alive. But you know that we are much much stronger than your fascism so what's the point??
Real Canadian, the investigation did not come from Serbia. It came from a Swiss investigator and was confirmed by the former Hague prosecutor. Would you allow the mafia to investigate their own crimes? This is what you and pss are asking.
The UN is the most competent body and will be funded by the UN budget.
(Swede, 11 July 2011 12:33)
Twisting the facts are we?
1.Organ trade claims were made by the Serbs
2.UN investigated but found nothing of a kind
3.The Hague Prosecutor mentioned in the book
4.The Serbian propagande made a big deal out of it
5.Marty gave his famous report with no evidence to back it up
6.Serbian Politicians tried to portray themselves as the victims of ruthless Albanians and tried to politicize the whole thing
7.Eulex and the Big powers said provide the evidence to the competent authorities (in this case EULEX)
8.No evidence to this day!!!
So nice try...
When facts are there the WORLD ACTS.
(Creative Rationality, 11 July 2011 14:46)
--
LOL.. when crimes are committed by the West and their partners in crime they cover them up, just like this organ trafficking case. The most recent is called the Dasht-i-Leili massacre or shall we say genocide? Check
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/opinion/14tue2.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/sep/14/afghanistan.lukeharding
http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/07/13/the-convoy-of-death-will-obama-investigate-the-afghan-massacre-of-november-2001
In other words, war criminals attempting to lecture Serbians about war crimes? That's why we show them our middle finger.
Marti said he will provide the evidence as soon as a competent investigative authority is in place (i.e. UN authorised) and a proper witness protection system operative. So far nothing.
Only reason they'd be against the probe being conducted by an independent organisation would be if they knew there was something to hide, What this is basically saying, is that organ trafficking did take place, and the US knows it
"The fact you try to internationalise this fary tale says that you are not reqady for reconciliation ..."
(ben, 11 July 2011 11:51)
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
"The fact you try to internationalise this fary tale says that you are not reqady for reconciliation ..."
(ben, 11 July 2011 11:51)
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
(Analyst, 11 July 2011 18:11)
No one is denying anything, but remeber that two investigations were done by UNMIK and ICTY, and the results were zilch.
Having said that, I am wondering why Tadic is not taking part in a summit being held ih Ohrid,Macedonia???
1) If all the organ trafficking accusation is baseless and bogus - than why be against investigation by U.N.?
2) If someone is against investigation of a crime - he is at least an accomplice.
(Ataman, 11 July 2011 11:29)
But the key thing here is that none are against an investigation, as a matter of fact they (US, UK, France) are pretty much financing the whole thing. They have confidence in Eulex and do not see the need for the creation of another entity that they would also have to be the primary funders.
Would you expect if there were a crime in Serbia for Serbia to say "we do not feel our police and intelligence service is capable of performing an adequate investigation"? Why would you expect the countries comprising EULEX to do so?
The involvement of UNMIK is a joke in that they no longer have any investigators, prosecutors, judges on their payroll, they are limited to diplomatic duties at most.
My question is if the resolution drafted by Serbia calls for Eulex with the cooperation of Unmik to investigate these crimes, and this is already in motion, why do you think you need a UN mandate.
And if these countries are supportive of the same agencies, and financing the entire operation, why would you accuse them of having something to hide.
But since Serbia drafted the OSCE resolution calling for EULEX to do the investigation, that really removes any reason for them to oppose a mandate from the UNSC on the matter. The matter of dissension has always been who would be in charge of the investigation and it seems that Serbia has come around.
I am wondering if Tadic and Vuk ever meet to talk about anything!. It seems like evry time Serbiasubmittes something , their politicians are like strangers on everything Serbia does. If this is intentionally done, I say is ver dumb, if not intentionally is even dumber.
"Big powers against UN-mandate organ trafficking probe"
This is an extreme lie! There is a clear statement that an ivestigation has to and will take place.
What bother you is that some countries simply draw a line preventing that some egocentric politicians in and around Belgrade can try to turn a serious investigation in a smear campaign for their subversive policy of distrust and hate-mongery. You are not interested in the truth. You are only interested to point fingers and divert the own and real guilt. That will not find support!
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
(Analyst, 11 July 2011 18:11)
well, you need to be bit naive in best case to draw that parallel.
While in Srebrenica the crime not only that is hugely materially documented but also it was found by the UN court to be the only genocide in Europe after the WW2.
And for the alleged crimes in Kosova we still need to find the first body or at least a name of person that was victim.
Forensic teams in Srebrenica have already given identity to over 7,000 civilians, their names surnames etc. For the Kosova's alleged crimes not a SINGLE body but there is not even a SINGLE NAME that has been provided up to date.
So you are comparing apples with oranges... I guess you will say they are both fruits.. sure...
Only reason they'd be against the probe being conducted by an independent organisation would be if they knew there was something to hide, What this is basically saying, is that organ trafficking did take place, and the US knows it
(New Zealander, 11 July 2011 21:43)
Simple ravings of someone who desperately wants it to be true and knows it is not.
Using any means to point guilt other than actual evidence.
Libya has shown the World that the Greatest Permanent Threat to Global Peace, Security, and Justice on this Planet are the Five Permanent Veto Holding Members of the United Nations Security Council.
This is reconfirmed by the Usual Culprits of England, France, and America, and Serbia should bring the following Resolutions to the United Nations General Assembly as soon a possible.
Unless the United Nations is Seriously and Properly Reformed, then the smaller Countries would be wise not to grant this Evil and Corrupt Organization any more legitimacy.
They can do that by withdrawing their membership from the United Nations Organization, or by bringing certain matters to the General Assembly for a Vote.
This is because these small Countries will Legitimize their own extinction, and that is why they should leave, and they should makes lots of noise while doing it, and continue to make noise after they leave that Evil Corrupt Organization.
The General Assembly of the United Nations needs to bring several Vital Matters to a Vote, unless they are just waiting for their own extinction.
The first Reform should be that there are 11 Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council.
Another Reform should be the Abstaining to Vote on any Resolution by any Permanent Member of the United Nations Security Council is a VETO and a NO Vote just like the United Nations Charter says.
We have seen this Evil Corrupt United Nations Organization set up Courts that are a Travesty of Justice, and are only needed to Pervert the Course of Justice, especially for Anglo-French interests.
There is more than enough Criminals in the Five Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council to keep any Court busy for a long, long time.
A Classic Example of a Corrupt Court that the United Nations Security Council set up is the International Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, or ICTY.
The other Corrupt Court is the International Criminal Court, or ICC, which is properly known as the International Criminal Cabal.
The boss of the International Criminal Court is called Ocampo, and if he is Camp, then American can blackmail him to Pervert the Course of Justice, because that is what Perverts like to do.
Another Reform is that there will never be the Freezing of any Countries Assets, or the placing of Economic Sanctions on any Country; because, Freezing Assets and Economic Sanctions are Genocide, and they are War Crimes, and they are Crimes against Humanity.
Another Reform is that a Vote by two thirds Vote by the General Assembly of the United Nations overrides and is a Veto for anything the 11 Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council may pass.
Another Reform is that Only the General Assembly by a two thirds Vote of the General Assembly of the United Nations can authorize war.
Another Reform is that if there is to be any International Criminal Court, then the Past and Present Leaders of the Five Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council Must be the First to go to Trial, because the Five Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council Should lead by Example.
There could be People who are wondering if President Tadic was trying to help the DS NATO Candidates by deliberately upsetting the Moroccans and the Algerians over the Reception for the OSCE, in order for the Arab world not to Vote for such Resolutions at the United Nations General Assembly.
My opinion is that if the Moroccans and Algerians were able to attend the OSCE session as Observers, then they should have been invited to the Reception.
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
(Analyst, 11 July 2011 18:11)
Serbs who have already pronounced Albanians guilty without any factual evidence that the crime even occurred are basically the same as the perpetrators of Srebenica because wasn't that their justification, the older males were guilty and the younger would grow up to be guilty.
LOL.. when crimes are committed by the West and their partners in crime they cover them up, just like this organ trafficking case. The most recent is called the Dasht-i-Leili massacre or shall we say genocide? Check
[link]
[link]
[link]
(Zoran, 11 July 2011 21:11)
Thanks for bringing the links above which show that the alleged crimes described in those links were not committed by West but by somebody else.
Whether we shall say genocide or not depends on the arguments that you still have to bring; i.e. take the definition of genocide from international criminal law, apply it the factual situation and then tell us how exactly that factual situation fits the definition of the elements of the crime of genocide. Just because some people were allegedly killed it is not automatically genocide. The crime of genocide has many more legal elements to be satisfied.
In other words, war criminals attempting to lecture Serbians about war crimes? That's why we show them our middle finger.
(Zoran, 11 July 2011 21:11)
Dude, the war criminals who have committed genocide beyond reasonable doubt as proved since 10 yrs ago in the Krstic case are the Serbians in Bosnia. So yes, I fully agree, you should show them your middle finger.
Marti said he will provide the evidence as soon as a competent investigative authority is in place (i.e. UN authorised) and a proper witness protection system operative. So far nothing.
(Zoran, 11 July 2011 21:11)
It’s not Marti who decides who should investigate. Nobody gave that power to him
What happened to America, Germany, France and the UK? Aren't they big powers? If so, why is Kosovo not a UN member?
(Franky Bayern, 11 July 2011 19:12)
It does not need to be a UN member precisely because America, Germany, France and UK are big powers and all it matters is their recognition. Only countries which only have the support of small powers try to get recognition via the UN.
man oh man, do some of you have a screwed-up way of identity.
we? we?
This isn't defending a sport's team. If someone commits a crime, it's a bad person doing a bad thing. Why would I feel badly, or personally attacked somehow by someone being in court over a crime?
I think EULEX should do it and I don't understand why Serbia is hindering the investigation. To use Vuk's words, I would like to believe that, in the weeks to come, we will manage to overcome the obstacle and achieve progress. If that does not happen, it will be extremely difficult to resist the impression that there is something in the case of human organ trafficking in Kosovo that, for some reason, should by no means see the light of day
It does not need to be a UN member precisely because America, Germany, France and UK are big powers and all it matters is their recognition. Only countries which only have the support of small powers try to get recognition via the UN.
(icj1, 12 July 2011 05:03)
============================
So if you know someone influential, to Hell with legalities.
Mafia mentality.
Big powers are agains the Serbian BS and racist propaganda.
You will never manage to place in same level the crimes that Serbia made in Kosova with alegeded crimes yet to be proven if they exist of some small group.
The fact you try to internationalise this fary tale says that you are not reqady for reconciliation and that you faschist Milosevic culture is still well alive. But you know that we are much much stronger than your fascism so what's the point??
The Western world does not want to mess up with Serbian fairy tales. The world wants facts not want-to-be-true gossips.
When facts are there the WORLD ACTS. Look at Srebrenica genocide, expulsion of Sebrs in Krajina (Croatia), Vukovar, Sarajevo,Recak in Kosovo, etc. The world initiated proceedings against each case once real facts came about.
Serbs MUST admit the collective guilt, apologise and pay reparations before the reconciliation can begin. Once Serbs do this then it is moral that other do for their portion of crimes committed even though the crimes of other against Serbs can not be put on the same level as Serbian genocides.
1) If all the organ trafficking accusation is baseless and bogus - than why be against investigation by U.N.?
2) If someone is against investigation of a crime - he is at least an accomplice.
(Ataman, 11 July 2011 11:29)
United States, Britain, France, Germany and the mafia in Pristina form a large part of the joint criminal enterprise. I'm not surprised they want to cover up this crime.
(Swede, 11 July 2011 11:19)
conspiracy theories nothing more...looking for someone to blame for no evidence...EULEX is supported by all 27 EU members and you dont trust them? why the heck you want to join the Union that you have no faith in? The big powers are calling your bluff as I see it. Provide the evidence or you be ridiculed for lying to the whole world.
Real Canadian, the investigation did not come from Serbia. It came from a Swiss investigator and was confirmed by the former Hague prosecutor. Would you allow the mafia to investigate their own crimes? This is what you and pss are asking.
The UN is the most competent body and will be funded by the UN budget.
(Swede, 11 July 2011 12:33)
Twisting the facts are we?
1.Organ trade claims were made by the Serbs
2.UN investigated but found nothing of a kind
3.The Hague Prosecutor mentioned in the book
4.The Serbian propagande made a big deal out of it
5.Marty gave his famous report with no evidence to back it up
6.Serbian Politicians tried to portray themselves as the victims of ruthless Albanians and tried to politicize the whole thing
7.Eulex and the Big powers said provide the evidence to the competent authorities (in this case EULEX)
8.No evidence to this day!!!
So nice try...
1) If all the organ trafficking accusation is baseless and bogus - than why be against investigation by U.N.?
2) If someone is against investigation of a crime - he is at least an accomplice.
(Ataman, 11 July 2011 11:29)
But the key thing here is that none are against an investigation, as a matter of fact they (US, UK, France) are pretty much financing the whole thing. They have confidence in Eulex and do not see the need for the creation of another entity that they would also have to be the primary funders.
Would you expect if there were a crime in Serbia for Serbia to say "we do not feel our police and intelligence service is capable of performing an adequate investigation"? Why would you expect the countries comprising EULEX to do so?
The involvement of UNMIK is a joke in that they no longer have any investigators, prosecutors, judges on their payroll, they are limited to diplomatic duties at most.
My question is if the resolution drafted by Serbia calls for Eulex with the cooperation of Unmik to investigate these crimes, and this is already in motion, why do you think you need a UN mandate.
And if these countries are supportive of the same agencies, and financing the entire operation, why would you accuse them of having something to hide.
But since Serbia drafted the OSCE resolution calling for EULEX to do the investigation, that really removes any reason for them to oppose a mandate from the UNSC on the matter. The matter of dissension has always been who would be in charge of the investigation and it seems that Serbia has come around.
Just like the so-called 'big powers' tolerated too long the wrongdoings of Milosevic in the Balkans for the sake of stability, they make a similar mistake again by tolerating criminals being in power in Kosovo.
I am wondering if Tadic and Vuk ever meet to talk about anything!. It seems like evry time Serbiasubmittes something , their politicians are like strangers on everything Serbia does. If this is intentionally done, I say is ver dumb, if not intentionally is even dumber.
Libya has shown the World that the Greatest Permanent Threat to Global Peace, Security, and Justice on this Planet are the Five Permanent Veto Holding Members of the United Nations Security Council.
This is reconfirmed by the Usual Culprits of England, France, and America, and Serbia should bring the following Resolutions to the United Nations General Assembly as soon a possible.
Unless the United Nations is Seriously and Properly Reformed, then the smaller Countries would be wise not to grant this Evil and Corrupt Organization any more legitimacy.
They can do that by withdrawing their membership from the United Nations Organization, or by bringing certain matters to the General Assembly for a Vote.
This is because these small Countries will Legitimize their own extinction, and that is why they should leave, and they should makes lots of noise while doing it, and continue to make noise after they leave that Evil Corrupt Organization.
The General Assembly of the United Nations needs to bring several Vital Matters to a Vote, unless they are just waiting for their own extinction.
The first Reform should be that there are 11 Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council.
Another Reform should be the Abstaining to Vote on any Resolution by any Permanent Member of the United Nations Security Council is a VETO and a NO Vote just like the United Nations Charter says.
We have seen this Evil Corrupt United Nations Organization set up Courts that are a Travesty of Justice, and are only needed to Pervert the Course of Justice, especially for Anglo-French interests.
There is more than enough Criminals in the Five Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council to keep any Court busy for a long, long time.
A Classic Example of a Corrupt Court that the United Nations Security Council set up is the International Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, or ICTY.
The other Corrupt Court is the International Criminal Court, or ICC, which is properly known as the International Criminal Cabal.
The boss of the International Criminal Court is called Ocampo, and if he is Camp, then American can blackmail him to Pervert the Course of Justice, because that is what Perverts like to do.
Another Reform is that there will never be the Freezing of any Countries Assets, or the placing of Economic Sanctions on any Country; because, Freezing Assets and Economic Sanctions are Genocide, and they are War Crimes, and they are Crimes against Humanity.
Another Reform is that a Vote by two thirds Vote by the General Assembly of the United Nations overrides and is a Veto for anything the 11 Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council may pass.
Another Reform is that Only the General Assembly by a two thirds Vote of the General Assembly of the United Nations can authorize war.
Another Reform is that if there is to be any International Criminal Court, then the Past and Present Leaders of the Five Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council Must be the First to go to Trial, because the Five Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council Should lead by Example.
There could be People who are wondering if President Tadic was trying to help the DS NATO Candidates by deliberately upsetting the Moroccans and the Algerians over the Reception for the OSCE, in order for the Arab world not to Vote for such Resolutions at the United Nations General Assembly.
My opinion is that if the Moroccans and Algerians were able to attend the OSCE session as Observers, then they should have been invited to the Reception.
"Big powers against UN-mandate organ trafficking probe"
This is an extreme lie! There is a clear statement that an ivestigation has to and will take place.
What bother you is that some countries simply draw a line preventing that some egocentric politicians in and around Belgrade can try to turn a serious investigation in a smear campaign for their subversive policy of distrust and hate-mongery. You are not interested in the truth. You are only interested to point fingers and divert the own and real guilt. That will not find support!
United States, Britain, France, Germany and the mafia in Pristina form a large part of the joint criminal enterprise. I'm not surprised they want to cover up this crime.
"The fact you try to internationalise this fary tale says that you are not reqady for reconciliation ..."
(ben, 11 July 2011 11:51)
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
(Analyst, 11 July 2011 18:11)
No one is denying anything, but remeber that two investigations were done by UNMIK and ICTY, and the results were zilch.
Having said that, I am wondering why Tadic is not taking part in a summit being held ih Ohrid,Macedonia???
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
(Analyst, 11 July 2011 18:11)
well, you need to be bit naive in best case to draw that parallel.
While in Srebrenica the crime not only that is hugely materially documented but also it was found by the UN court to be the only genocide in Europe after the WW2.
And for the alleged crimes in Kosova we still need to find the first body or at least a name of person that was victim.
Forensic teams in Srebrenica have already given identity to over 7,000 civilians, their names surnames etc. For the Kosova's alleged crimes not a SINGLE body but there is not even a SINGLE NAME that has been provided up to date.
So you are comparing apples with oranges... I guess you will say they are both fruits.. sure...
1) If all the organ trafficking accusation is baseless and bogus - than why be against investigation by U.N.?
2) If someone is against investigation of a crime - he is at least an accomplice.
When will we find who did what? This organ trade scandal is not in favour off some big european countries. Especially the the french guy Bernard Kuchner ? ... So they do anything to obstruct real investigation.
When will we find who did what? This organ trade scandal is not in favour off some big european countries. Especially the the french guy Bernard Kuchner ? ... So they do anything to obstruct real investigation.
Real Canadian, the investigation did not come from Serbia. It came from a Swiss investigator and was confirmed by the former Hague prosecutor. Would you allow the mafia to investigate their own crimes? This is what you and pss are asking.
The UN is the most competent body and will be funded by the UN budget.
"The fact you try to internationalise this fary tale says that you are not reqady for reconciliation ..."
(ben, 11 July 2011 11:51)
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
When facts are there the WORLD ACTS.
(Creative Rationality, 11 July 2011 14:46)
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LOL.. when crimes are committed by the West and their partners in crime they cover them up, just like this organ trafficking case. The most recent is called the Dasht-i-Leili massacre or shall we say genocide? Check
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/opinion/14tue2.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/sep/14/afghanistan.lukeharding
http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/07/13/the-convoy-of-death-will-obama-investigate-the-afghan-massacre-of-november-2001
In other words, war criminals attempting to lecture Serbians about war crimes? That's why we show them our middle finger.
Marti said he will provide the evidence as soon as a competent investigative authority is in place (i.e. UN authorised) and a proper witness protection system operative. So far nothing.
What happened to America, Germany, France and the UK? Aren't they big powers? If so, why is Kosovo not a UN member?
(Franky Bayern, 11 July 2011 19:12)
It does not need to be a UN member precisely because America, Germany, France and UK are big powers and all it matters is their recognition. Only countries which only have the support of small powers try to get recognition via the UN.
LOL.. when crimes are committed by the West and their partners in crime they cover them up, just like this organ trafficking case. The most recent is called the Dasht-i-Leili massacre or shall we say genocide? Check
[link]
[link]
[link]
(Zoran, 11 July 2011 21:11)
Thanks for bringing the links above which show that the alleged crimes described in those links were not committed by West but by somebody else.
Whether we shall say genocide or not depends on the arguments that you still have to bring; i.e. take the definition of genocide from international criminal law, apply it the factual situation and then tell us how exactly that factual situation fits the definition of the elements of the crime of genocide. Just because some people were allegedly killed it is not automatically genocide. The crime of genocide has many more legal elements to be satisfied.
In other words, war criminals attempting to lecture Serbians about war crimes? That's why we show them our middle finger.
(Zoran, 11 July 2011 21:11)
Dude, the war criminals who have committed genocide beyond reasonable doubt as proved since 10 yrs ago in the Krstic case are the Serbians in Bosnia. So yes, I fully agree, you should show them your middle finger.
Marti said he will provide the evidence as soon as a competent investigative authority is in place (i.e. UN authorised) and a proper witness protection system operative. So far nothing.
(Zoran, 11 July 2011 21:11)
It’s not Marti who decides who should investigate. Nobody gave that power to him
Only reason they'd be against the probe being conducted by an independent organisation would be if they knew there was something to hide, What this is basically saying, is that organ trafficking did take place, and the US knows it
Only reason they'd be against the probe being conducted by an independent organisation would be if they knew there was something to hide, What this is basically saying, is that organ trafficking did take place, and the US knows it
(New Zealander, 11 July 2011 21:43)
Simple ravings of someone who desperately wants it to be true and knows it is not.
Using any means to point guilt other than actual evidence.
Albanians who deny the organ harvesting and calling it a fairy tale before any investigations are finished are on the same level as Serbs denying the Srebrenica massacre has happened.
(Analyst, 11 July 2011 18:11)
Serbs who have already pronounced Albanians guilty without any factual evidence that the crime even occurred are basically the same as the perpetrators of Srebenica because wasn't that their justification, the older males were guilty and the younger would grow up to be guilty.
I think EULEX should do it and I don't understand why Serbia is hindering the investigation. To use Vuk's words, I would like to believe that, in the weeks to come, we will manage to overcome the obstacle and achieve progress. If that does not happen, it will be extremely difficult to resist the impression that there is something in the case of human organ trafficking in Kosovo that, for some reason, should by no means see the light of day
man oh man, do some of you have a screwed-up way of identity.
we? we?
This isn't defending a sport's team. If someone commits a crime, it's a bad person doing a bad thing. Why would I feel badly, or personally attacked somehow by someone being in court over a crime?
It does not need to be a UN member precisely because America, Germany, France and UK are big powers and all it matters is their recognition. Only countries which only have the support of small powers try to get recognition via the UN.
(icj1, 12 July 2011 05:03)
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So if you know someone influential, to Hell with legalities.
Mafia mentality.
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