Serbia won't change stance on Kosovo, Tadić says

"It seems the Western attitude is finally shifting..."
"Lets hope
(Zoran, 28 June 2011 15:27)"
"It's over for the Albanians.
(highduke, 28 June 2011 12:45)
"There Could be..
If this is true..
"Furthermore, it May or May Not be..."
"Kosovo have not Lobbied for the Implementation of the SAA Agreement with Serbia. "
"If any Country in the World..."
(Yet Another J S, 28 June 2011 11:16)"


Who in their sane mind would want to live with wannabe Nostradamus that sound like old hags with broken loopy predictions.?

If you are not capable to understand that nobody in Europe or the western world (where 99% of Serbs reside) does not respect Serbias make believe "sovereignty" over Kosovo, than you are a tool or just a Serb with lies for breakfast.
All your neighbors disrespect you over it, but you make up by your fm hugging Gabon as brothers. Great ;)

The truth is we do not care at all about your hate, against Croatians Slovenians Bosnians West and all others that Kosovars have nothing against.
And we will not unite with in brotherly love with the Ruskies who only have the worst of intentions for the balkans, ask the Poles, check Hungarians Romanians anyones...
Good luck with them and Brick and all the other dreams of heavenly kingdom for the chosen slavs. out of the 380millions, it is the Serbs who are the leaders, Good for you, now leave us alone from your delusions.

As they say, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... fool me cant get fooled again. :D
Keep your genocide history and the rats who committed them inside your own borders. We will keep the good part of the Serb minority, better than Germany keeps the Sorboi ;)

Peace, and chill with the stupid predictions that you keep repeating everyday with not a single hint of being right nor informed.

It's over for the Albanians. And to think how enthusiastically they welcomed Mladic's arrest then it was actually the last nail in their coffin. Now it's blatantly obvious that all agreements by Pristina with Belgrade & the EU are within a non-UDI context as I said they'd be from the start.

Dear Boris the EU wants Serbia to recognize Kosovo then feed it as in the past then you have to abandon Republika Srpska and then you can go fulfill all other requirements and Serbia will still not get into the EU.
Look Ratko Maldic is in the Hague so what have you got for it? Nothing – a precursor to what you will get in the end.

It's time everyone accepted the reality and moved towards reconciliation and peace. Serbia attempted to retain full control over KiM but failed while KiM Albanians attempted to gain full independence but also failed.

More than autonomy, less than independence is self-fulfilling and the way forward. Serbia retains its legal international sovereignty while KiM Albanians have independence and self-rule within those borders. It seems the Western attitude is finally shifting to accommodate this reality.

Lets hope the negotiators get it right and help the people of the province with everyday issues to improve their lives. Even if this generation of people can't live together then lets give them the opportunity to live side by side peacefully. Peace, truth and reconciliation is far too important for the region than to allow the hate spreaders, dividers and hypocrites to win.

More than autonomy, less than independence is self-fulfilling and the way forward. Serbia retains its legal international sovereignty while KiM Albanians have independence and self-rule within those borders. It seems the Western attitude is finally shifting to accommodate this reality.

Zoran,

Curious, other than in your dreams, what has the west done that shows this? Can you sight one head of state that has made any mention of revoking their recognition. I am not talking about ordinary citizens, or journalist theories, or ex gov officials. No country has 100% backing for anything, so you will find someone in opposition to any view but I am saying someone who can reflect state policy.
The federation idea in the kumanovo agreement was and could still be acceptable to most of the west but I think it would be rejected by Kosovo and most assuredly Serbia. In it Kosovo and Serbia would be equal in all matters of state, Serbia would have no political control over Kosovo but Kosovo would have representation in Serbia's parliament. Of course the name and the flag would have to change to reflect the new federation but Serbia could retain their republic flag and Kosovo its, but for international events everything would be listed under the new Kosovo-Serbia federation.
Is this something you have in mind, anything less will never gather international support. The west can function just well without Kosovo UN membership for the time being. As far as the EU, you and I both know that Serbia will never get in with Kosovo status being an issue.
The EU can lay out the map but each country has to say yes and chances of getting 22 yes's are close to Peggy marrying an Albanian.

All this is mere fantazies,
because there will be no reconsilations.

I am just waiting to see your downfall,
I think it is just a matter of time.

Arn.Sweden.

I have made my original Comment less ambiguous, and I have corrected some of the grammar to make it easier to read.

There Could be one or more European Union Country that initially recognized Kosovo Albanian Declaration of Independence, who May have Changed their minds, and now, they do not want Kosovo to become Independent.

If this is true, then they May not want the Kosovo Albanians to realize this just yet, but they would use Subtle and Subliminal Messages in order for the Kosovo Albanians to understand this.

We all know that there will have to be a Referendum in Serbia for Kosovo to become Independent.

Furthermore, it May or May Not be that Serbia and Brussels, and even Pristina know that the SAA Agreement must first be Fully Implemented before there can be a Referendum on Kosovo’s Independence.

I strongly suggest that we ordinary People are not privy to the Private Discussions and Negotiations, which are being conducted Secretly with Brussels.

However, what is not a fantasy to Every European Union Country, is that the Albanians of Kosovo have not Lobbied for the Implementation of the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

If those European Union Countries, or even any Country in the World who initially recognized Kosovo’s Unilateral declaration of independence, really wanted Kosovo to become independent, then they would Lobby for the SAA Agreement to be Implemented with Serbia.

This Referendum on Kosovo’s Independence can only possibly be held after the European Union has Implemented the SAA Agreement.

This is because Serbia’s Condition for the Referendum to be held, is that the SAA Agreement must be Fully Implemented by All European Union Countries before a Referendum can be held.

The lack of Lobbying by the Albanians of Kosovo for the Implementation of the SAA Agreement for Serbia, clearly shows the Attitudes of the Kosovo Albanians towards Serbia, the Serbian People, but Most Importantly to the Serbian Minority in Kosovo.

This Un-European, even Unhuman Attitude is what May be causing some European Union Countries to Change their minds, and Revoke their support for Kosovo Albanian Unilateral declaration of independence.

They May have realized that it is entirely Wishing Thinking and a Fantasy that an Independent Kosovo Could succeed, given the Fact that the Kosovo Albanians are not Lobbying for the Full Implementation of the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

Serbia Should pursue Policies which are the Right Policies, and if some European Union Countries cannot or will not come up to Proper Standards, then Serbia Should not join the European Union until they do.

There Could be some People who think that it is Hilarious for People or Nations to pursue Right Policies, be they Moral, Political, or Economic, but they are free to view it this way.

Those who view it as Hilarious to Pursue Right Policies, are really Admitting too much about themselves, and this is reflected in their Attitude to the Full Implementation of the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

Serbia cannot even be ready consider recognizing Kosovo, because Serbia and the rest of the European Union recognizes the Attitudes of the Kosovo Albanians toward Serbia, the Serbian People, but Most Importantly toward the Serbian Minority in Kosovo.

The Albanians of Kosovo are not independent of the Balkans, they are not independent of Europe, and they are not independent of the rest of the World.

If Kosovo is independent of Serbia, then they are not pursuing Good Neighbourly Relations, because they are not Lobbying for the Full Implementation of the SAA Agreement for Serbia, and the European Union Countries have taken Note of This.

This Could be a reason why one or more European Union Countries have Changed their minds on supporting Kosovo Albanian Unilateral declaration of independence, but they just do not know how to tell this to the Albanians of Kosovo.

The Albanians of Kosovo Might Consider Lobbing for the SAA Agreement to be Fully Implemented with Serbia, in order to indicate that they are practicing Good Relations with another those in their Region.

The Albanians of Kosovo will then be able to say that they are Free to Pursue Right Policies, and one of them is to Lobby for the SAA Agreement to be Fully Implemented with Serbia.

If some European Union Countries; and even the Albanians of Kosovo really want Kosovo to become an Independent Country, then they will Lobby and Implement the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

We all know that the SAA Agreement must be Fully Implemented before any Referendum in Serbia can take put on the Status of Kosovo.

There Could be People who think that the Serbian Voters will Vote NO on the first Referendum, but they need to realize that the Irish Voters did the same with the Lisbon Treaty, where more than one Referendum was needed before it was approved.

Ireland is a European Country, and Serbia is encouraged to pursue European Values, and if it took the European Values Irish two attempts to approve of the Lisbon Treaty, then it Could Possibly be that it Might take the Serbian Voters more than one Referendum approve of Kosovo’s Independence, but we Cannot and Should not try to predict these things, as it serves no purpose.

There Could be some European Union Countries who May want the Kosovo Albanians to subtlety and subliminally understand that they have Changed their minds and withdrawn their support for Kosovo Albanian Unilateral declaration of Independence.

The Albanians of Kosovo need to Lobby those European Union Countries who are delaying the Implementation of the SAA Agreement, and ask them to Fully Implement the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

It Should be obvious to everyone that the European Union does not want Kosovo Albanians to join the European Union, because Serbia would allow Kosovo to join the European Union in a Cyprus Type Situation.

It Should be obvious to everyone that certain European Union Countries do not want Serbia to join the European Union, because they would let Serbia join the European Union in a Cyprus Type Situation, while Kosovo is Fully Integrating with Serbia, and where Kosovo joins the European Union, years later as Serbia’s Province.

We see that Serbia and some European Union Countries, are taking Note of the Fact that the Albanians of Kosovo are not Lobbing for the Full Implementation of the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

There are some European Union Countries who want Kosovo to Fully Reintegrate with Serbia, because they want Serbia to join the European Union, even though its Southern Province of Kosovo would join the European Union years later as Serbia’s Province.

Serbia Should just totally ignore any talk from any European Union Country on any claim they make that Serbia cannot join the European Union on terms and conditions that other Countries joined the European Union.

Serbia Should pursue Policies which are the Right Policies, and if some European Union Countries cannot or will not come to up Proper Standards, then Serbia Should not join the European Union until they do.

The EU can lay out the map but each country has to say yes and chances of getting 22 yes's are close to Peggy marrying an Albanian.
(pss, 28 June 2011 16:08)
--
I'm not sure which tangent you have gone on. Serbia does not want to form a federation with ethnic Albanians. You can have self-rule and we already retain our international sovereignty at the UN. KiM will not gain any international legitimacy but may have some within the EU.

My point is, it seems the West has come to terms with "Kosova" not gaining legitimacy so it's time to work out a compromise.

Election time is nearing in Serbia. After elections are held Tadic is going to sing a different song.

Yet Another J S, 28 June 2011 11:16)
You may have taken a long time to prepare your post, but I could give you some advice and if you had ust signed your name it would have meant more.
Your theories on "the Albanians in Kosovo campaigning for the signing of the SAA" is totally off base. I think most people feel that Serbia should not receive anymore rewards before recognizing Kosovo. Everyone knows that the SAA and possible EU candidate status are enticements inorder to make the separation of Kosovo that much easier to accept by the Serbian people. As Jeremic and Tadic have both said one side cannot win everything and the other side nothing.
I really like how you inject things that the rest of us are not privy to. Thats all we need is another staff or sj who attende all these high classified meetings around the world and then spill the beans here in a forum, for the rest of the ignorant who are not "privy" to such information. Or is it ust another screen name for the same?

This happens when someone is welcomed... http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/iceland-sets-record-eu-accession-talks-news-506006 ...Mr. George Tadic must swallow this pill...

I'm not sure which tangent you have gone on. Serbia does not want to form a federation with ethnic Albanians. You can have self-rule and we already retain our international sovereignty at the UN. KiM will not gain any international legitimacy but may have some within the EU.

My point is, it seems the West has come to terms with "Kosova" not gaining legitimacy so it's time to work out a compromise.
(Zoran, 28 June 2011 16:57)

Zoran, K-Albanians will never rest in peace under Serbia, even if the inclusion is formal. Their paranoia is well justified considering the past. Why should they trust Serbia now? Please give me only one reason why?
K-Albanians will never agree to be part of a state of Serbia which controls an army and they don't. Would you accept an Albanian entity inside Serbia that can have it's own army, identity, symbols, etc? Of course not, if Albanians are allowed to have their own army there is a defacto Independence. And no one can deny that right to K-Alb since history has proven that they do need it in order for them to exist. Serbia has just screwed things up so badly in Kosovo that simply there is no practical solution other than independence. It is not like 50% of K-Alb are for it, or 60% or 70%, rather 100% of K-Alb are completely and utterly for Independece at any cost.

Serbia should have taken better care of its own citizens long time ago, now it's too little too late.

I agree Kosovo can not be ruled by Belgrade politically or economically ever again. That is why "More than Autonomy, Less than Independence" is the only solution which is actually the reality right now. Kosovo is completely independent of Serbia in a political/economic sense, however Kosovo in name and at the United Nations is within the borders of Serbia which is all that Serbia wants. As of right now Serbia has Kosovo right where it wants it. Kosovo is not a full functioning state, Belgrade doesnt have the headache of ruling 2 million Albanians and taking money out of the budget for them, and Kosovo is still within the borders of Serbia according to the United Nations and a majority of the worlds countries. Do you really think that Belgrade cares about ruling the Albanians? All Belgrade wants is for Kosovo to remain a province of Serbia only in name. Thats all Serbia is asking for! Let the Albanians ruel them selfs completely with no interference from Belgrade, but Kosovo must remain a Serbia province. That is the reality right now! Belgrade doesnt rule Kosovo, but Kosovo is still Serbia in name and at the UN! Serbia wants this status quo to continue, and that is why there is a dialogue right now to cement this form of status quo.

"So unless you are willing to come up with some type of equal partnership with the Albanians, not as a subset of Serbia, then you are not speaking of compromise."
(pss, 28 June 2011 20:19)
I agree, Kosovo as a subset of Serbia is not a compromise. A compromise would be a split. But on the other hand, Kosovo Albanians should face the fact that the (current) status of Kosovo is simply NOT equal to a normal state. It's a self-proclaimed state, not an UN member, not recognized by the majority of other states in the world. So I don't know what they will expect to gain from 'being represented as a state' (or insisting that no one else is represented as a state) and cause trouble for everyone who is organizing international/regional meetings.

I'm not sure which tangent you have gone on. Serbia does not want to form a federation with ethnic Albanians. You can have self-rule and we already retain our international sovereignty at the UN. KiM will not gain any international legitimacy but may have some within the EU.

My point is, it seems the West has come to terms with "Kosova" not gaining legitimacy so it's time to work out a compromise.
(Zoran, 28 June 2011 16:57)
# Comment link


I agree Serbia is not interested in joining a federation. That is the problem they are willing to give the Albanians autonomy as long as SErbia has the final say and all international contact flows through Belgrade. (Now since the it has become obvious that the west is not going to turn Kosovo over to Serbia and say we are leaving, do as you wish)
But that is not acceptable, not acceptable to the Kosovo Albanians, not acceptable to the 76 nations that have recognized Kosovo. The only bargaining chip Serbia has is UN membership and that is not a strong one.
But you keep saying time to compromise, but I see no compromise from you, or anyone on the Serbia side. You say that "more than autonomy, less than independence" is what you are offering and that is all you will offer, it is up to the Albanians to compromise to that. This does not offer them UN representation, it is still SErbian representation speaking. You want to compromise come up with something that will entice Kosovo, something they do not have at the present.
Representation at meetings without state symbols is not an issue as long as everyone else is without state symbols. Which dispels your insinuation that the west was waivering. They are saying they are willing to have everyone without state symbols so Kosovo can attend and Serbia, however, they are not willing to exclude Kosovo so Serbia will attend. You have given them an ultimatum on many occasions by saying either them or us and what has the answer been?
So unless you are willing to come up with some type of equal partnership with the Albanians, not as a subset of Serbia, then you are not speaking of compromise.

I agree, Kosovo as a subset of Serbia is not a compromise. A compromise would be a split. But on the other hand, Kosovo Albanians should face the fact that the (current) status of Kosovo is simply NOT equal to a normal state. It's a self-proclaimed state, not an UN member, not recognized by the majority of other states in the world. So I don't know what they will expect to gain from 'being represented as a state' (or insisting that no one else is represented as a state) and cause trouble for everyone who is organizing international/regional meetings.
(Top, 28 June 2011 20:58)
True, I am not saying that the staus quo of Kosovo is an enviable one, but it is functional. Lets face it Kosovo is in no way ready to compete in the world on its own. That is reality so the position it is in is tenable. The main energies of Kosovo should be focused on internal issues such as crime, corruption, infrastructure, education and human rights, with participation in regional and international conferences in more of a passive role.
In 10 years Kosovo may be in a point to be a constructive international presence but not now.
Kosovo is not the one insisting that others not be represented as states and causing trouble. It is Serbia's insistence that Kosovo not be representd as a state, that causes the planners of such events to alter the plans, in hopes that Serbia too will attend. However, Kosovo should not attend under any other premise. Kosovo attends the UNSC meetings as private party individuals with everyone knowing they are representing Kosovo, they are heard, people addresing them do so as they see Kosovo, US,UK,France etc address them as the honorable_____- of the Republic of Kosovo, Russia, China addresses them as Mr, Ms, etc.
I am not sure of any meetings Palestine, Taiwan, has attended but I am sure it is under similar circumstances.
Because of rules of admission being different from organization to organization the attendance of Kosovo will vary. IMF, WB Kosovo is a member and can and is represented as a state even though some members have not recognize and even reject their status. EU and UN cannot do so.
I agree the issue to tackle is some type of split of Kosovo whether physical or practical so that everyone can move on. But to think Kosovo will reenter Serbian domain is totally unrealistic as it will not happen in the lifetime of any of us.
However no one knows what the future will bring, I think the world stage will be quite different in 25-50 years but I doubt that either Kosovo or Serbia will be key players. There could be the possibility that everyone will have to be aligned with one of the three or four main players to survive. But one thing for sure the world of an ethnically geared society dominating is over.

Denis - Do you apply the same logic to the Kosovo Serbs in the North? Why shouldn't they get to choose their own future. If you believe so fervently in self-determination then why can't you let them decide what they want; to be a part of Kosovo or a part of Serbia. Needless to say, if you believe that Kosovo's territorial integrity is sacrosanct, then you have the answer as to why Serbia takes the position it does. You cannot have your cake and eat it!

Secondly, the argument that reconciliation is impossible and that Kosovo could never be a part of Serbia is wrong. Much worse has happened elsewhere and the international community has insisted on territories remaining a part of the parent state, albeit with a high degree of autonomy. The only reason this did not happen in Kosovo was because of the threats of violence from KAs. The west may have had to allow Kosovo to become independent in order to prevent attacks against NATO peacekeepers and UN administrators, but the rest of the world has decided not to go along with this blackmail. You are the architects of your own misfortune and isolation. You could have negotiated a deal with Serbia that would have nominally kept Kosovo a part of the country but allowed it to have the trappings of statehood. Indeed, you could even be participating in the Olympics next year if you had played your cards right.

But i get the sense that some people in Kosovo are starting realise this. Do you realise that Gallup polls have actually shown a decrease in support for independence in Kosovo? It is not 100%, as you claim. Rather, the latest poll showed that it had dropped to 75%. Maybe people are waking up to the fact that the impetuous declaration of independence, made with threats of violence and intimidation, has not delivered what they thought it would. For many of us, it was clear that it wouldn't.

At the same time, said he, the country "will not change its stance on not recognizing the self-proclaimed independence of Kosovo".
***
Serbia will not join the EU Iznogoud says. But have fun believing that it is actually the EU that wants to join Serbia and not the other way around.

"Serbia does not deny the atrocities that were committed against Kosovo Albanians."

What an hypocrit.Go ahead and deny them, it will suit you very well as a serb.A nation in denial.This guy calls Albanians terrorists from Monday to Sunday and then calls for reconciliation.Apologize and pay war retributions before you talk about reconciliation between serbs and albanians.

Folks, we all need to begin healing and moving forward with our lives. Lets join hands and sing a song that really brings us all together and brings a sense of understanding and mutual respect.... Gosh, I love this song:)

[link]
(The Truth Chicago, 28 June 2011 16:29)

Soon you will learn how to sing it in Chinese - they already have more than just Chicago at it's tail and can squeeze the balls at will. Ouch, it hurts. In the mean time for change learn at least something else - more wholesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEmPaTc589M

Folks, we all need to begin healing and moving forward with our lives. Lets join hands and sing a song that really brings us all together and brings a sense of understanding and mutual respect.... Gosh, I love this song:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0dNob5mVz0

GuessAgain

Are you sure Kosovo is not recognized as a Serbian province by the UN? Last time I checked the website, an official map of the Serbia included Kosovo as an autonomous province. So I really don't know where you get your misleading information. The UN sees Kosovo as a provicne of Serbia like it or not. Look at this link to the map of Serbia on the official UN website :

[link]

So stop kidding yourself ;)
(Anonymous, 29 June 2011 06:44)
Note date on map 2007, I said no document produced in the last 2 1/2 years. ie since DOI and "status neutral" decision.
To have changed existing documents to not include Kosovo would have been seen as breaching "status neutral".

@ThinkAgain

Kosovo is mentioned as an autonomous province of Serbia in this line of Resolution 1244 :

"10. Authorizes the Secretary-General, with the assistance of relevant international organizations, to establish an international civil presence in Kosovo in order to provide an interim administration for Kosovo under which the people of Kosovo can enjoy substantial autonomy within the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and which will provide transitional administration while establishing and overseeing the development of provisional democratic self-governing institutions to ensure conditions for a peaceful and normal life for all inhabitants of Kosovo"

Serbia is also recognized as the succesor state of the Republic of Yugoslavia, so dont play the "Yugoslavia isn't a country anymore" card.

(Anonymous, 28 June 2011 22:06)
You are wrong the official UN position (at Serbia's insistence)is "status neutral". That means to the UN it is not a province nor a state. No UN document produced in the last 2 1/2 years list Kosovo as a province of Serbia. Even Serbia insists that Kosovo be presented as Kosovo, UNMIK, not Kosovo, Serbia.
So you do not at present have it in name only, nor will you in the future.

@GuessAgain

Are you sure Kosovo is not recognized as a Serbian province by the UN? Last time I checked the website, an official map of the Serbia included Kosovo as an autonomous province. So I really don't know where you get your misleading information. The UN sees Kosovo as a provicne of Serbia like it or not. Look at this link to the map of Serbia on the official UN website :

http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/serbia.pdf

So stop kidding yourself ;)

Denis - Do you apply the same logic to the Kosovo Serbs in the North? Why shouldn't they get to choose their own future. If you believe so fervently in self-determination then why can't you let them decide what they want; to be a part of Kosovo or a part of Serbia. Needless to say, if you believe that Kosovo's territorial integrity is sacrosanct, then you have the answer as to why Serbia takes the position it does. You cannot have your cake and eat it!

Secondly, the argument that reconciliation is impossible and that Kosovo could never be a part of Serbia is wrong. Much worse has happened elsewhere and the international community has insisted on territories remaining a part of the parent state, albeit with a high degree of autonomy. The only reason this did not happen in Kosovo was because of the threats of violence from KAs. The west may have had to allow Kosovo to become independent in order to prevent attacks against NATO peacekeepers and UN administrators, but the rest of the world has decided not to go along with this blackmail. You are the architects of your own misfortune and isolation. You could have negotiated a deal with Serbia that would have nominally kept Kosovo a part of the country but allowed it to have the trappings of statehood. Indeed, you could even be participating in the Olympics next year if you had played your cards right.

But i get the sense that some people in Kosovo are starting realise this. Do you realise that Gallup polls have actually shown a decrease in support for independence in Kosovo? It is not 100%, as you claim. Rather, the latest poll showed that it had dropped to 75%. Maybe people are waking up to the fact that the impetuous declaration of independence, made with threats of violence and intimidation, has not delivered what they thought it would. For many of us, it was clear that it wouldn't.
(ICJ, 29 June 2011 07:18)

I havent seen the GALLUP poll but I have been to Kosovo. Every existence, every notion of identity and existence of K-Albanians is perceived in the context of an anti-Serbian struggle. This is more than enough to tell you that a reconciliation under Serbian state is not a practical possibility. Maybe next time Serbia will try to reconcile first, before they send in their tanks to kill and destroy a civilian population.

I have yet to see how Kosovo is sending its army to kill and plunder Kosovo Serb population in a systematic and organized manner like Serbia did to K-Albanians, to talk about partition of Kosovo. In any case, I believe that a partition will be the best way, so no I would not prefer to include K-Serbs in Kosovo if they do not want to stay.

Easy to justify the reality by blaming the KA violence.What are KA to do in the face of a reality which tried to exterminate them only 10 years ago, forget it? roll over and die, oh yes, they should play their card right, and put themselves in a position so Serbia can easily try to exterminate them again in the future.

If I recall correctly KA were the last entity in ex-Jugo that used violence to get its God given rights. Maybe you can explain to me what was Serbia doing while KA were protesting peacefully for 10 years under the leadership of Rugova? It is really strange to see how Serbs act as if they did nothing wrong, and as if they have a track record of peacefull and tolerant approach to resolving the Kosovo issue.

Soon you will learn how to sing it in Chinese - they already have more than just Chicago at it's tail and can squeeze the balls at will. Ouch, it hurts. In the mean time for change learn at least something else - more wholesome.

[link]
(Ataman, 28 June 2011 23:07)

Hey Jez
The link that Truth of Chicago has provided show the young guys singing in Kosovo, while the one you have provided shows only a dream that so called tsar army was marching somewhere probably to Sweden. Please tell that army to post a more convincing clip showing that army where they dream they will be - in Sweden. Until then, nice dreams. How sad your situation is.

@GuessAgain

The UN is status neutral in a sense that they will not actually come out straight to the Albanians and say you are a part of Serbia or to the Serbs and say Kosovo is not yours anymore. Status neutral means they will take no ones side and stick to the sidelines and remain the same as before without changing anything, meaning that map is still officially accepted by the UN otherwise it wouldn't be on their official website. The UN is recognized as a province of Serbia by the UN. Any map of Kosovo that the UN draws, shows an administrative line between Kosovo and Serbia and not an international boundary. Sorry but these are the facts. Plus the UN is bound to carrying out its function sin Kosovo in accordance with Resolution 1244, which guarantees the sovereignty of Serbia.

Anonymous, 29 June 2011 17:43)
I have agreed that the UN will not make a map showing Kosovo separate(due to status neutral) if that in your mind makes their official stance that it is a province so be it. We had to placate our children many times that way.

A new task, find the word guarantees in the resolution in regards to Kosovo being a province of Serbia.
It does discuss in length the INTERIM process of establishing an autonomous government within the territory of the FRY, then it says "Facilitating a political process designed to determine Kosovo's future status"
That does not sound like a guarantee that the future of Kosovo was going to be a province, maybe one of the possiblities.
2nd task--find the word province mentioned anywhere in the text of Resolution 1244.
The Rambouillet Accords as mentioned envisioned Kosovo as an equal partner in a federation with Serbia and Montenegro. It did not address what if's in case of a split, but then the natural assumption would be that of a 50/50 federation.
As I said before even your own govt insists that Kosovo be listed as Kosovo UNMIK and not Kosovo Serbia in any international forums.
Facts are facts like it or not!

ThinkAgain

Kosovo is mentioned as an autonomous province of Serbia in this line of Resolution 1244 :

"10. Authorizes the Secretary-General, with the assistance of relevant international organizations, to establish an international civil presence in Kosovo in order to provide an interim administration for Kosovo under which the people of Kosovo can enjoy substantial autonomy within the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and which will provide transitional administration while establishing and overseeing the development of provisional democratic self-governing institutions to ensure conditions for a peaceful and normal life for all inhabitants of Kosovo"

Serbia is also recognized as the succesor state of the Republic of Yugoslavia, so dont play the "Yugoslavia isn't a country anymore" card.
(Anonymous, 30 June 2011 00:02)
Did not see the word province but did note the big word "INTERIM" which means temporary. Therefore no guarantee that Kosovo was to forever remain a part of Yugoslavia.
Maybe you were mistaken that provisional meant provincial? But within the FRY could mean province, republic, or UN protectorate.

Also did you see the article today about Jeremic boycotting the meeting because he refuses to attend any meeting where Kosovo participates under any other name other than Kosovo/UNMIK?

It's over for the Albanians. And to think how enthusiastically they welcomed Mladic's arrest then it was actually the last nail in their coffin. Now it's blatantly obvious that all agreements by Pristina with Belgrade & the EU are within a non-UDI context as I said they'd be from the start.

I have made my original Comment less ambiguous, and I have corrected some of the grammar to make it easier to read.

There Could be one or more European Union Country that initially recognized Kosovo Albanian Declaration of Independence, who May have Changed their minds, and now, they do not want Kosovo to become Independent.

If this is true, then they May not want the Kosovo Albanians to realize this just yet, but they would use Subtle and Subliminal Messages in order for the Kosovo Albanians to understand this.

We all know that there will have to be a Referendum in Serbia for Kosovo to become Independent.

Furthermore, it May or May Not be that Serbia and Brussels, and even Pristina know that the SAA Agreement must first be Fully Implemented before there can be a Referendum on Kosovo’s Independence.

I strongly suggest that we ordinary People are not privy to the Private Discussions and Negotiations, which are being conducted Secretly with Brussels.

However, what is not a fantasy to Every European Union Country, is that the Albanians of Kosovo have not Lobbied for the Implementation of the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

If those European Union Countries, or even any Country in the World who initially recognized Kosovo’s Unilateral declaration of independence, really wanted Kosovo to become independent, then they would Lobby for the SAA Agreement to be Implemented with Serbia.

This Referendum on Kosovo’s Independence can only possibly be held after the European Union has Implemented the SAA Agreement.

This is because Serbia’s Condition for the Referendum to be held, is that the SAA Agreement must be Fully Implemented by All European Union Countries before a Referendum can be held.

The lack of Lobbying by the Albanians of Kosovo for the Implementation of the SAA Agreement for Serbia, clearly shows the Attitudes of the Kosovo Albanians towards Serbia, the Serbian People, but Most Importantly to the Serbian Minority in Kosovo.

This Un-European, even Unhuman Attitude is what May be causing some European Union Countries to Change their minds, and Revoke their support for Kosovo Albanian Unilateral declaration of independence.

They May have realized that it is entirely Wishing Thinking and a Fantasy that an Independent Kosovo Could succeed, given the Fact that the Kosovo Albanians are not Lobbying for the Full Implementation of the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

Serbia Should pursue Policies which are the Right Policies, and if some European Union Countries cannot or will not come up to Proper Standards, then Serbia Should not join the European Union until they do.

There Could be some People who think that it is Hilarious for People or Nations to pursue Right Policies, be they Moral, Political, or Economic, but they are free to view it this way.

Those who view it as Hilarious to Pursue Right Policies, are really Admitting too much about themselves, and this is reflected in their Attitude to the Full Implementation of the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

Serbia cannot even be ready consider recognizing Kosovo, because Serbia and the rest of the European Union recognizes the Attitudes of the Kosovo Albanians toward Serbia, the Serbian People, but Most Importantly toward the Serbian Minority in Kosovo.

The Albanians of Kosovo are not independent of the Balkans, they are not independent of Europe, and they are not independent of the rest of the World.

If Kosovo is independent of Serbia, then they are not pursuing Good Neighbourly Relations, because they are not Lobbying for the Full Implementation of the SAA Agreement for Serbia, and the European Union Countries have taken Note of This.

This Could be a reason why one or more European Union Countries have Changed their minds on supporting Kosovo Albanian Unilateral declaration of independence, but they just do not know how to tell this to the Albanians of Kosovo.

The Albanians of Kosovo Might Consider Lobbing for the SAA Agreement to be Fully Implemented with Serbia, in order to indicate that they are practicing Good Relations with another those in their Region.

The Albanians of Kosovo will then be able to say that they are Free to Pursue Right Policies, and one of them is to Lobby for the SAA Agreement to be Fully Implemented with Serbia.

If some European Union Countries; and even the Albanians of Kosovo really want Kosovo to become an Independent Country, then they will Lobby and Implement the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

We all know that the SAA Agreement must be Fully Implemented before any Referendum in Serbia can take put on the Status of Kosovo.

There Could be People who think that the Serbian Voters will Vote NO on the first Referendum, but they need to realize that the Irish Voters did the same with the Lisbon Treaty, where more than one Referendum was needed before it was approved.

Ireland is a European Country, and Serbia is encouraged to pursue European Values, and if it took the European Values Irish two attempts to approve of the Lisbon Treaty, then it Could Possibly be that it Might take the Serbian Voters more than one Referendum approve of Kosovo’s Independence, but we Cannot and Should not try to predict these things, as it serves no purpose.

There Could be some European Union Countries who May want the Kosovo Albanians to subtlety and subliminally understand that they have Changed their minds and withdrawn their support for Kosovo Albanian Unilateral declaration of Independence.

The Albanians of Kosovo need to Lobby those European Union Countries who are delaying the Implementation of the SAA Agreement, and ask them to Fully Implement the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

It Should be obvious to everyone that the European Union does not want Kosovo Albanians to join the European Union, because Serbia would allow Kosovo to join the European Union in a Cyprus Type Situation.

It Should be obvious to everyone that certain European Union Countries do not want Serbia to join the European Union, because they would let Serbia join the European Union in a Cyprus Type Situation, while Kosovo is Fully Integrating with Serbia, and where Kosovo joins the European Union, years later as Serbia’s Province.

We see that Serbia and some European Union Countries, are taking Note of the Fact that the Albanians of Kosovo are not Lobbing for the Full Implementation of the SAA Agreement with Serbia.

There are some European Union Countries who want Kosovo to Fully Reintegrate with Serbia, because they want Serbia to join the European Union, even though its Southern Province of Kosovo would join the European Union years later as Serbia’s Province.

Serbia Should just totally ignore any talk from any European Union Country on any claim they make that Serbia cannot join the European Union on terms and conditions that other Countries joined the European Union.

Serbia Should pursue Policies which are the Right Policies, and if some European Union Countries cannot or will not come to up Proper Standards, then Serbia Should not join the European Union until they do.

All this is mere fantazies,
because there will be no reconsilations.

I am just waiting to see your downfall,
I think it is just a matter of time.

Arn.Sweden.

Yet Another J S, 28 June 2011 11:16)
You may have taken a long time to prepare your post, but I could give you some advice and if you had ust signed your name it would have meant more.
Your theories on "the Albanians in Kosovo campaigning for the signing of the SAA" is totally off base. I think most people feel that Serbia should not receive anymore rewards before recognizing Kosovo. Everyone knows that the SAA and possible EU candidate status are enticements inorder to make the separation of Kosovo that much easier to accept by the Serbian people. As Jeremic and Tadic have both said one side cannot win everything and the other side nothing.
I really like how you inject things that the rest of us are not privy to. Thats all we need is another staff or sj who attende all these high classified meetings around the world and then spill the beans here in a forum, for the rest of the ignorant who are not "privy" to such information. Or is it ust another screen name for the same?

More than autonomy, less than independence is self-fulfilling and the way forward. Serbia retains its legal international sovereignty while KiM Albanians have independence and self-rule within those borders. It seems the Western attitude is finally shifting to accommodate this reality.

Zoran,

Curious, other than in your dreams, what has the west done that shows this? Can you sight one head of state that has made any mention of revoking their recognition. I am not talking about ordinary citizens, or journalist theories, or ex gov officials. No country has 100% backing for anything, so you will find someone in opposition to any view but I am saying someone who can reflect state policy.
The federation idea in the kumanovo agreement was and could still be acceptable to most of the west but I think it would be rejected by Kosovo and most assuredly Serbia. In it Kosovo and Serbia would be equal in all matters of state, Serbia would have no political control over Kosovo but Kosovo would have representation in Serbia's parliament. Of course the name and the flag would have to change to reflect the new federation but Serbia could retain their republic flag and Kosovo its, but for international events everything would be listed under the new Kosovo-Serbia federation.
Is this something you have in mind, anything less will never gather international support. The west can function just well without Kosovo UN membership for the time being. As far as the EU, you and I both know that Serbia will never get in with Kosovo status being an issue.
The EU can lay out the map but each country has to say yes and chances of getting 22 yes's are close to Peggy marrying an Albanian.

"Serbia does not deny the atrocities that were committed against Kosovo Albanians."

What an hypocrit.Go ahead and deny them, it will suit you very well as a serb.A nation in denial.This guy calls Albanians terrorists from Monday to Sunday and then calls for reconciliation.Apologize and pay war retributions before you talk about reconciliation between serbs and albanians.

"It seems the Western attitude is finally shifting..."
"Lets hope
(Zoran, 28 June 2011 15:27)"
"It's over for the Albanians.
(highduke, 28 June 2011 12:45)
"There Could be..
If this is true..
"Furthermore, it May or May Not be..."
"Kosovo have not Lobbied for the Implementation of the SAA Agreement with Serbia. "
"If any Country in the World..."
(Yet Another J S, 28 June 2011 11:16)"


Who in their sane mind would want to live with wannabe Nostradamus that sound like old hags with broken loopy predictions.?

If you are not capable to understand that nobody in Europe or the western world (where 99% of Serbs reside) does not respect Serbias make believe "sovereignty" over Kosovo, than you are a tool or just a Serb with lies for breakfast.
All your neighbors disrespect you over it, but you make up by your fm hugging Gabon as brothers. Great ;)

The truth is we do not care at all about your hate, against Croatians Slovenians Bosnians West and all others that Kosovars have nothing against.
And we will not unite with in brotherly love with the Ruskies who only have the worst of intentions for the balkans, ask the Poles, check Hungarians Romanians anyones...
Good luck with them and Brick and all the other dreams of heavenly kingdom for the chosen slavs. out of the 380millions, it is the Serbs who are the leaders, Good for you, now leave us alone from your delusions.

As they say, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... fool me cant get fooled again. :D
Keep your genocide history and the rats who committed them inside your own borders. We will keep the good part of the Serb minority, better than Germany keeps the Sorboi ;)

Peace, and chill with the stupid predictions that you keep repeating everyday with not a single hint of being right nor informed.

This happens when someone is welcomed... http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/iceland-sets-record-eu-accession-talks-news-506006 ...Mr. George Tadic must swallow this pill...

Dear Boris the EU wants Serbia to recognize Kosovo then feed it as in the past then you have to abandon Republika Srpska and then you can go fulfill all other requirements and Serbia will still not get into the EU.
Look Ratko Maldic is in the Hague so what have you got for it? Nothing – a precursor to what you will get in the end.

It's time everyone accepted the reality and moved towards reconciliation and peace. Serbia attempted to retain full control over KiM but failed while KiM Albanians attempted to gain full independence but also failed.

More than autonomy, less than independence is self-fulfilling and the way forward. Serbia retains its legal international sovereignty while KiM Albanians have independence and self-rule within those borders. It seems the Western attitude is finally shifting to accommodate this reality.

Lets hope the negotiators get it right and help the people of the province with everyday issues to improve their lives. Even if this generation of people can't live together then lets give them the opportunity to live side by side peacefully. Peace, truth and reconciliation is far too important for the region than to allow the hate spreaders, dividers and hypocrites to win.

I'm not sure which tangent you have gone on. Serbia does not want to form a federation with ethnic Albanians. You can have self-rule and we already retain our international sovereignty at the UN. KiM will not gain any international legitimacy but may have some within the EU.

My point is, it seems the West has come to terms with "Kosova" not gaining legitimacy so it's time to work out a compromise.
(Zoran, 28 June 2011 16:57)

Zoran, K-Albanians will never rest in peace under Serbia, even if the inclusion is formal. Their paranoia is well justified considering the past. Why should they trust Serbia now? Please give me only one reason why?
K-Albanians will never agree to be part of a state of Serbia which controls an army and they don't. Would you accept an Albanian entity inside Serbia that can have it's own army, identity, symbols, etc? Of course not, if Albanians are allowed to have their own army there is a defacto Independence. And no one can deny that right to K-Alb since history has proven that they do need it in order for them to exist. Serbia has just screwed things up so badly in Kosovo that simply there is no practical solution other than independence. It is not like 50% of K-Alb are for it, or 60% or 70%, rather 100% of K-Alb are completely and utterly for Independece at any cost.

Serbia should have taken better care of its own citizens long time ago, now it's too little too late.

I agree Kosovo can not be ruled by Belgrade politically or economically ever again. That is why "More than Autonomy, Less than Independence" is the only solution which is actually the reality right now. Kosovo is completely independent of Serbia in a political/economic sense, however Kosovo in name and at the United Nations is within the borders of Serbia which is all that Serbia wants. As of right now Serbia has Kosovo right where it wants it. Kosovo is not a full functioning state, Belgrade doesnt have the headache of ruling 2 million Albanians and taking money out of the budget for them, and Kosovo is still within the borders of Serbia according to the United Nations and a majority of the worlds countries. Do you really think that Belgrade cares about ruling the Albanians? All Belgrade wants is for Kosovo to remain a province of Serbia only in name. Thats all Serbia is asking for! Let the Albanians ruel them selfs completely with no interference from Belgrade, but Kosovo must remain a Serbia province. That is the reality right now! Belgrade doesnt rule Kosovo, but Kosovo is still Serbia in name and at the UN! Serbia wants this status quo to continue, and that is why there is a dialogue right now to cement this form of status quo.

At the same time, said he, the country "will not change its stance on not recognizing the self-proclaimed independence of Kosovo".
***
Serbia will not join the EU Iznogoud says. But have fun believing that it is actually the EU that wants to join Serbia and not the other way around.

I agree, Kosovo as a subset of Serbia is not a compromise. A compromise would be a split. But on the other hand, Kosovo Albanians should face the fact that the (current) status of Kosovo is simply NOT equal to a normal state. It's a self-proclaimed state, not an UN member, not recognized by the majority of other states in the world. So I don't know what they will expect to gain from 'being represented as a state' (or insisting that no one else is represented as a state) and cause trouble for everyone who is organizing international/regional meetings.
(Top, 28 June 2011 20:58)
True, I am not saying that the staus quo of Kosovo is an enviable one, but it is functional. Lets face it Kosovo is in no way ready to compete in the world on its own. That is reality so the position it is in is tenable. The main energies of Kosovo should be focused on internal issues such as crime, corruption, infrastructure, education and human rights, with participation in regional and international conferences in more of a passive role.
In 10 years Kosovo may be in a point to be a constructive international presence but not now.
Kosovo is not the one insisting that others not be represented as states and causing trouble. It is Serbia's insistence that Kosovo not be representd as a state, that causes the planners of such events to alter the plans, in hopes that Serbia too will attend. However, Kosovo should not attend under any other premise. Kosovo attends the UNSC meetings as private party individuals with everyone knowing they are representing Kosovo, they are heard, people addresing them do so as they see Kosovo, US,UK,France etc address them as the honorable_____- of the Republic of Kosovo, Russia, China addresses them as Mr, Ms, etc.
I am not sure of any meetings Palestine, Taiwan, has attended but I am sure it is under similar circumstances.
Because of rules of admission being different from organization to organization the attendance of Kosovo will vary. IMF, WB Kosovo is a member and can and is represented as a state even though some members have not recognize and even reject their status. EU and UN cannot do so.
I agree the issue to tackle is some type of split of Kosovo whether physical or practical so that everyone can move on. But to think Kosovo will reenter Serbian domain is totally unrealistic as it will not happen in the lifetime of any of us.
However no one knows what the future will bring, I think the world stage will be quite different in 25-50 years but I doubt that either Kosovo or Serbia will be key players. There could be the possibility that everyone will have to be aligned with one of the three or four main players to survive. But one thing for sure the world of an ethnically geared society dominating is over.

Folks, we all need to begin healing and moving forward with our lives. Lets join hands and sing a song that really brings us all together and brings a sense of understanding and mutual respect.... Gosh, I love this song:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0dNob5mVz0

The EU can lay out the map but each country has to say yes and chances of getting 22 yes's are close to Peggy marrying an Albanian.
(pss, 28 June 2011 16:08)
--
I'm not sure which tangent you have gone on. Serbia does not want to form a federation with ethnic Albanians. You can have self-rule and we already retain our international sovereignty at the UN. KiM will not gain any international legitimacy but may have some within the EU.

My point is, it seems the West has come to terms with "Kosova" not gaining legitimacy so it's time to work out a compromise.

I'm not sure which tangent you have gone on. Serbia does not want to form a federation with ethnic Albanians. You can have self-rule and we already retain our international sovereignty at the UN. KiM will not gain any international legitimacy but may have some within the EU.

My point is, it seems the West has come to terms with "Kosova" not gaining legitimacy so it's time to work out a compromise.
(Zoran, 28 June 2011 16:57)
# Comment link


I agree Serbia is not interested in joining a federation. That is the problem they are willing to give the Albanians autonomy as long as SErbia has the final say and all international contact flows through Belgrade. (Now since the it has become obvious that the west is not going to turn Kosovo over to Serbia and say we are leaving, do as you wish)
But that is not acceptable, not acceptable to the Kosovo Albanians, not acceptable to the 76 nations that have recognized Kosovo. The only bargaining chip Serbia has is UN membership and that is not a strong one.
But you keep saying time to compromise, but I see no compromise from you, or anyone on the Serbia side. You say that "more than autonomy, less than independence" is what you are offering and that is all you will offer, it is up to the Albanians to compromise to that. This does not offer them UN representation, it is still SErbian representation speaking. You want to compromise come up with something that will entice Kosovo, something they do not have at the present.
Representation at meetings without state symbols is not an issue as long as everyone else is without state symbols. Which dispels your insinuation that the west was waivering. They are saying they are willing to have everyone without state symbols so Kosovo can attend and Serbia, however, they are not willing to exclude Kosovo so Serbia will attend. You have given them an ultimatum on many occasions by saying either them or us and what has the answer been?
So unless you are willing to come up with some type of equal partnership with the Albanians, not as a subset of Serbia, then you are not speaking of compromise.

Folks, we all need to begin healing and moving forward with our lives. Lets join hands and sing a song that really brings us all together and brings a sense of understanding and mutual respect.... Gosh, I love this song:)

[link]
(The Truth Chicago, 28 June 2011 16:29)

Soon you will learn how to sing it in Chinese - they already have more than just Chicago at it's tail and can squeeze the balls at will. Ouch, it hurts. In the mean time for change learn at least something else - more wholesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEmPaTc589M

(Anonymous, 28 June 2011 22:06)
You are wrong the official UN position (at Serbia's insistence)is "status neutral". That means to the UN it is not a province nor a state. No UN document produced in the last 2 1/2 years list Kosovo as a province of Serbia. Even Serbia insists that Kosovo be presented as Kosovo, UNMIK, not Kosovo, Serbia.
So you do not at present have it in name only, nor will you in the future.

Election time is nearing in Serbia. After elections are held Tadic is going to sing a different song.

"So unless you are willing to come up with some type of equal partnership with the Albanians, not as a subset of Serbia, then you are not speaking of compromise."
(pss, 28 June 2011 20:19)
I agree, Kosovo as a subset of Serbia is not a compromise. A compromise would be a split. But on the other hand, Kosovo Albanians should face the fact that the (current) status of Kosovo is simply NOT equal to a normal state. It's a self-proclaimed state, not an UN member, not recognized by the majority of other states in the world. So I don't know what they will expect to gain from 'being represented as a state' (or insisting that no one else is represented as a state) and cause trouble for everyone who is organizing international/regional meetings.

Denis - Do you apply the same logic to the Kosovo Serbs in the North? Why shouldn't they get to choose their own future. If you believe so fervently in self-determination then why can't you let them decide what they want; to be a part of Kosovo or a part of Serbia. Needless to say, if you believe that Kosovo's territorial integrity is sacrosanct, then you have the answer as to why Serbia takes the position it does. You cannot have your cake and eat it!

Secondly, the argument that reconciliation is impossible and that Kosovo could never be a part of Serbia is wrong. Much worse has happened elsewhere and the international community has insisted on territories remaining a part of the parent state, albeit with a high degree of autonomy. The only reason this did not happen in Kosovo was because of the threats of violence from KAs. The west may have had to allow Kosovo to become independent in order to prevent attacks against NATO peacekeepers and UN administrators, but the rest of the world has decided not to go along with this blackmail. You are the architects of your own misfortune and isolation. You could have negotiated a deal with Serbia that would have nominally kept Kosovo a part of the country but allowed it to have the trappings of statehood. Indeed, you could even be participating in the Olympics next year if you had played your cards right.

But i get the sense that some people in Kosovo are starting realise this. Do you realise that Gallup polls have actually shown a decrease in support for independence in Kosovo? It is not 100%, as you claim. Rather, the latest poll showed that it had dropped to 75%. Maybe people are waking up to the fact that the impetuous declaration of independence, made with threats of violence and intimidation, has not delivered what they thought it would. For many of us, it was clear that it wouldn't.
(ICJ, 29 June 2011 07:18)

I havent seen the GALLUP poll but I have been to Kosovo. Every existence, every notion of identity and existence of K-Albanians is perceived in the context of an anti-Serbian struggle. This is more than enough to tell you that a reconciliation under Serbian state is not a practical possibility. Maybe next time Serbia will try to reconcile first, before they send in their tanks to kill and destroy a civilian population.

I have yet to see how Kosovo is sending its army to kill and plunder Kosovo Serb population in a systematic and organized manner like Serbia did to K-Albanians, to talk about partition of Kosovo. In any case, I believe that a partition will be the best way, so no I would not prefer to include K-Serbs in Kosovo if they do not want to stay.

Easy to justify the reality by blaming the KA violence.What are KA to do in the face of a reality which tried to exterminate them only 10 years ago, forget it? roll over and die, oh yes, they should play their card right, and put themselves in a position so Serbia can easily try to exterminate them again in the future.

If I recall correctly KA were the last entity in ex-Jugo that used violence to get its God given rights. Maybe you can explain to me what was Serbia doing while KA were protesting peacefully for 10 years under the leadership of Rugova? It is really strange to see how Serbs act as if they did nothing wrong, and as if they have a track record of peacefull and tolerant approach to resolving the Kosovo issue.

Anonymous, 29 June 2011 17:43)
I have agreed that the UN will not make a map showing Kosovo separate(due to status neutral) if that in your mind makes their official stance that it is a province so be it. We had to placate our children many times that way.

A new task, find the word guarantees in the resolution in regards to Kosovo being a province of Serbia.
It does discuss in length the INTERIM process of establishing an autonomous government within the territory of the FRY, then it says "Facilitating a political process designed to determine Kosovo's future status"
That does not sound like a guarantee that the future of Kosovo was going to be a province, maybe one of the possiblities.
2nd task--find the word province mentioned anywhere in the text of Resolution 1244.
The Rambouillet Accords as mentioned envisioned Kosovo as an equal partner in a federation with Serbia and Montenegro. It did not address what if's in case of a split, but then the natural assumption would be that of a 50/50 federation.
As I said before even your own govt insists that Kosovo be listed as Kosovo UNMIK and not Kosovo Serbia in any international forums.
Facts are facts like it or not!

ThinkAgain

Kosovo is mentioned as an autonomous province of Serbia in this line of Resolution 1244 :

"10. Authorizes the Secretary-General, with the assistance of relevant international organizations, to establish an international civil presence in Kosovo in order to provide an interim administration for Kosovo under which the people of Kosovo can enjoy substantial autonomy within the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and which will provide transitional administration while establishing and overseeing the development of provisional democratic self-governing institutions to ensure conditions for a peaceful and normal life for all inhabitants of Kosovo"

Serbia is also recognized as the succesor state of the Republic of Yugoslavia, so dont play the "Yugoslavia isn't a country anymore" card.
(Anonymous, 30 June 2011 00:02)
Did not see the word province but did note the big word "INTERIM" which means temporary. Therefore no guarantee that Kosovo was to forever remain a part of Yugoslavia.
Maybe you were mistaken that provisional meant provincial? But within the FRY could mean province, republic, or UN protectorate.

Also did you see the article today about Jeremic boycotting the meeting because he refuses to attend any meeting where Kosovo participates under any other name other than Kosovo/UNMIK?

Denis - Do you apply the same logic to the Kosovo Serbs in the North? Why shouldn't they get to choose their own future. If you believe so fervently in self-determination then why can't you let them decide what they want; to be a part of Kosovo or a part of Serbia. Needless to say, if you believe that Kosovo's territorial integrity is sacrosanct, then you have the answer as to why Serbia takes the position it does. You cannot have your cake and eat it!

Secondly, the argument that reconciliation is impossible and that Kosovo could never be a part of Serbia is wrong. Much worse has happened elsewhere and the international community has insisted on territories remaining a part of the parent state, albeit with a high degree of autonomy. The only reason this did not happen in Kosovo was because of the threats of violence from KAs. The west may have had to allow Kosovo to become independent in order to prevent attacks against NATO peacekeepers and UN administrators, but the rest of the world has decided not to go along with this blackmail. You are the architects of your own misfortune and isolation. You could have negotiated a deal with Serbia that would have nominally kept Kosovo a part of the country but allowed it to have the trappings of statehood. Indeed, you could even be participating in the Olympics next year if you had played your cards right.

But i get the sense that some people in Kosovo are starting realise this. Do you realise that Gallup polls have actually shown a decrease in support for independence in Kosovo? It is not 100%, as you claim. Rather, the latest poll showed that it had dropped to 75%. Maybe people are waking up to the fact that the impetuous declaration of independence, made with threats of violence and intimidation, has not delivered what they thought it would. For many of us, it was clear that it wouldn't.

GuessAgain

Are you sure Kosovo is not recognized as a Serbian province by the UN? Last time I checked the website, an official map of the Serbia included Kosovo as an autonomous province. So I really don't know where you get your misleading information. The UN sees Kosovo as a provicne of Serbia like it or not. Look at this link to the map of Serbia on the official UN website :

[link]

So stop kidding yourself ;)
(Anonymous, 29 June 2011 06:44)
Note date on map 2007, I said no document produced in the last 2 1/2 years. ie since DOI and "status neutral" decision.
To have changed existing documents to not include Kosovo would have been seen as breaching "status neutral".

@GuessAgain

Are you sure Kosovo is not recognized as a Serbian province by the UN? Last time I checked the website, an official map of the Serbia included Kosovo as an autonomous province. So I really don't know where you get your misleading information. The UN sees Kosovo as a provicne of Serbia like it or not. Look at this link to the map of Serbia on the official UN website :

http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/serbia.pdf

So stop kidding yourself ;)

Soon you will learn how to sing it in Chinese - they already have more than just Chicago at it's tail and can squeeze the balls at will. Ouch, it hurts. In the mean time for change learn at least something else - more wholesome.

[link]
(Ataman, 28 June 2011 23:07)

Hey Jez
The link that Truth of Chicago has provided show the young guys singing in Kosovo, while the one you have provided shows only a dream that so called tsar army was marching somewhere probably to Sweden. Please tell that army to post a more convincing clip showing that army where they dream they will be - in Sweden. Until then, nice dreams. How sad your situation is.

@GuessAgain

The UN is status neutral in a sense that they will not actually come out straight to the Albanians and say you are a part of Serbia or to the Serbs and say Kosovo is not yours anymore. Status neutral means they will take no ones side and stick to the sidelines and remain the same as before without changing anything, meaning that map is still officially accepted by the UN otherwise it wouldn't be on their official website. The UN is recognized as a province of Serbia by the UN. Any map of Kosovo that the UN draws, shows an administrative line between Kosovo and Serbia and not an international boundary. Sorry but these are the facts. Plus the UN is bound to carrying out its function sin Kosovo in accordance with Resolution 1244, which guarantees the sovereignty of Serbia.

@ThinkAgain

Kosovo is mentioned as an autonomous province of Serbia in this line of Resolution 1244 :

"10. Authorizes the Secretary-General, with the assistance of relevant international organizations, to establish an international civil presence in Kosovo in order to provide an interim administration for Kosovo under which the people of Kosovo can enjoy substantial autonomy within the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and which will provide transitional administration while establishing and overseeing the development of provisional democratic self-governing institutions to ensure conditions for a peaceful and normal life for all inhabitants of Kosovo"

Serbia is also recognized as the succesor state of the Republic of Yugoslavia, so dont play the "Yugoslavia isn't a country anymore" card.