Tadić honors victims of WW2 fascist Croat regime

To the Croats and Albanians,
This topic is for the 40000 victims in jadovno.
I hope these horrible crimes will never be forgotten!
And about:
Republika srpska is not greater serbia.
Yugoslavia was greater Serbia, croat/albanian and bosnian muslims wanted to have their own ethnic pure country, and that is what happend and not that serbs where fighting for greater serbia because they already had it!
I hope you can understand that.
cheers

Ivan; When are you going to visit Jasenovac, or Kragujevac, or a dozen other places where Serbs were massacred by fascist occupiers. The answer- never. So do us all a favour and put a cork in it pal.

Boris Tadic said on Sunday that Croatia has to try war crimes cases originating from Operation Storm 1995, when a quarter of a million ethnic Serbs were driven out of their homes in Croatia. How is Serbia the instigator of war criminal aggression on Croatia, Bosnia ,Kosovo ,Slovenia trying its many criminal murderers ethnic cleansers that reside in and supported by Serbia. Or the freak Srpska entity aka Greater Serbia in the country of Bosnia that you wholeheartedly support Boris based on horrendous evils likes not seen since WW2. I guarantee you that freak murderous "Srpska" will be the configuration for war in the not distant future. When are the 100s thousands Bosniaks ,Croatians and all the other peoples going to return to their homes in factitious Srpska. The many criminal Serbs in it going to face justice for their horrendous crimes. Do not preach to us Boris and Serbs until you clean the stench from your wicked pursuit of a Greater Serbia and make restitution to the millions victims of it. Then you mite have something worth while saying your neighbours will then listen but now it is full of subterfuge and lies from Serbs of Belgrade Serbia who made all these disasters.

I heard Misha Glenny on the waxing lyrical about Croatia joining the EU as if that somehow removes the taint of fascism from Croatian thinking. I do not have the impression that that taint is removed - and I do not believe that Croatia is ready for the EU. I would like to see much more soul searching about the criminal past - soul searching done in public. The recent visit by the pope did nothing to convince me that Croatia has moved on.

There is a certain pride in Croatia - a sense of superiority as if their links to the Hungarian empire in the past made them more deserving than other Slavs!!

The blame is always put on Serbia for starting the recent wars - yet words like "Serbs hanging from the willows" were graffitied in Croatia in the 1980s, long before the troubles started.

I would like to see some of the Croatian arrogance defeated. Serbia has moved on further in the last ten years than Croatia has in terms of facing up to the defeat of its arrogant nationalists.

The Jasenovac murders of the second world war stand out as some of the worst scale atrocities and are not adequately answered. Croatia was born out of that blood - can you convince me that it is not still proud of its history?

As a young Canadian, I can hardly believe that such crimes occurred during the war. Some 40 000 civilians killed in 3 months. I agree that we must never forget the dreadful faith of these innocent women, men and children. May they rest in peace.

Lenard,

I don't know where you got your all hate for Serbia and Serbian people.
Where you've been during 80's adn 90's. I can see you rely only on CNN propaganda who fabricated all lies during these and later years likes WMD - and exegeration of Srebrenica victims - but at same time killing hundrands thousands of civilians all over the world, doing humanitarian bombings, re-building Iraq, Afganistan and Libia but achieving self-distruction during the process. Almost bankrupt along the EU (only Germnany still can stood on its own) and asking for help and loans from China and Russia.

But back to what you should know - who started and guilty for wars in Yugoslavia. Croats - Mesic - claimed proudly - I destroyed Yugoslavia, Alija was offered confederation and peace but cheated first accepting but then listen to Ameracans and choose the war. Kosovo continuation of terror Serbs for years and when got response run to mountains and asked for help. Result again - Sarajevo ethnically cleaned, Krajina - Croatia and Kosovo almost.

And you still sing the same falsh poem. Not to go back to Jasenovac and balist times. You choose wrong side so many times and not getting the lesson. If something big happen on world stage in future I am sure you're choosing wrong side again and we will be forced to accept you once again in some future YU- EU - slavia and give you one more chance but will be stabed in back again. Zalosno ali istinito.

And you, Lenard, live in your delusional world and you are one of B92's top-five hate moguls. Who needs enemies with loyal "friends" like you?

"Tens of thousands of people were murdered here just because they had their identity, name, conviction, faith. That must never be forgotten. Innocent victims deserve our memory, today, and every year to come, here as well as in Pag and Jasenovac," Tadić said, mentioning the largest death camp ran by the NDH.


and, 200 thousand were killed in 1990-1999 just for the sake of creation of Greater Serbia.All those were killed because they were not Serbians!!!

You Serbs live in a delusional Serb world no body is buying it you've made enemys of your neighbours by your own evil home grown Serb fascism pursuits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Serbia#Failure_of_the_Greater_Serbian_project . It is just on the back burner for now because of the worlds gaze on it and got your bully stuffing kicked. Even now we have a Serb Dodo pushing for it in the country of Bosnia but gets slapped by the international community and retreats to criminally plot again and again pretends to call it Serb democracy. Why is Serbian President Boris not rebuking Dodo telling him NO in definet unquibble terms to his criminal pursuit of destroying the country of Bosnia. But instead giving him support by subterfuge and any way other way of accomplishing the evil of a Greater Srbia project as the long history testifies of its many morally bankrupt evils. It rears its ugly head at the first opportunity Serb fascism goals presents it self and it thinks it can get away with its Serb radical pogroms. The Serb morons of Greater Serbia for 100s of years have pushed by war wholesale murder ethnic cleansing pogroms theft on the surrounding countrys peoples by Serb fascist domination ideology. First to the south then west then to the east now the latest to the north. Now the Serbs wonder why they are estranged turn their neighbours in to enemies and cant get along gee go figure rocket scientist.

PEN,

"Ivan"'s great grandfather probably served proudly in the Skanderbeg SS and "Ivan" is carrying "just" on the family tradition of hate.

@ Ivan.

He did last year.

As we know Croatia escaped Nuernberg Tribunal only because it was a part of SFRY but now that they are free to praise the Nazi Serbia as the most suffered side have moral rights to ask for contribution. You canmot defend all the time and complain to your rivals that they mistreat you.

Republika srpska is not greater serbia.
Yugoslavia was greater Serbia, croat/albanian and bosnian muslims wanted to have their own ethnic pure country, and that is what happend and not that serbs where fighting for greater serbia because they already had it!
I hope you can understand that.
cheers
(mick, 27 June 2011 14:36)

I think the world pretty much understands that Serbia wanted to be masters of the others not so much to have an ethnically pure society. they only wanted to cleanse the ones who would not submit.

I like how B92 has to put "WW2" in the title before "fascist Croat regime" to differentiate it from the 1990s "fascist Croat regime" :)

Croats and albanians commenting here are truly amazing. This article is about the hudreds of thousands of Serbs killed by the Ustashe. And you turn it into croat/albanian suffering. "It all about me, me, me, me."
Serbs who were massacred by croats doesn't count because???

Lenard
If croats didn't do what they did to Serbs during WW2 there wouldn't have been a war in the 90s. And understand one thing you hypocrit: this articles is about croat warcrimes not Republika Srpska. You turn any subject into an issue about Republika Srpska. Srpska is a reality, deal with it.

I thank God Almigthy that Yugoslavia is no more. To live with hypocrits and evil people like croats and especially albanians are is a blessing. Stick to you drugsmugling and human trafficing and leave us the hell alone. You come to a Serbian forum and you hate the Serbs. You must know you are hypocrits of the worst kind.

When is he going to visit Srebrenica?
(ivan, 27 June 2011 12:57)
========================

He's done better than that. He has apologiesd. When are you guys going to apologise for anything?

When is he going to visit Srebrenica?

MikeC you sure are one noisy loose canon maybe not their are few other ones with you. One wrong makes another wrong and then it multiplies expansively in to infinite of wrongs. Yore Serbian Boris comes to Croatia to tell us how we are bad. Then goes to Srbia and lauds the Serbs how really good they are and how wonderful criminal Greater Serbia in Bosnia is and how Belgrade Serbia has special optimal relation wit it. They do not mention on B92 either of the Croatian antifascist resisters murdered their also. Serbia dose no do much until the spotlight is focused on it and can swap something for its criminal activity for gain. Its not in any way shape or form sorry it just justifies it self only for expediency that it mite get a reward. Like I have said many times ours and yores murdering slaughtering raping Fascist are having one hell of a time in hell for eternity. It is sad so many people approve of what they did and are willing to live on their horrendous criminal abominations and pursue it to their own ultimate destruction.

Lenard,

All innocent, regardless of ethnicity, deserve justice and respect.

Intentionally disrespecting the dead, as you do, just because they are Serbs and spewing your incoherent hatred speaks very poorly of you as a compassionate and supposed Christian.

The simple fact is that Croatia is founded on genocide and ethnic cleansing. This is not opinion it's an easily verifiable fact.

Please do get one because Cetniks fought AGAINST Nazi Croatians and Nazi Germans. It's well recorded in history.
***
Throughout the War, the Chetnik movement remained almost completely inactive against the occupation forces, and increasingly collaborated with the Axis, losing its international recognition as the Yugoslav resistance force. After a brief initial period of cooperation, the Partisans and the Chetniks quickly started fighting against each other. Gradually, the Chetniks ended up primarily fighting the Partisans instead of the occupation forces, and started cooperating with the Axis in their struggle to destroy the resistance, receiving increasing amounts of logistical assistance. Mihailović admitted to a British colonel that the Chetniks' principle enemies were "the partisans, the Ustasha, the Muslims, the Croats and last the Germans and Italians" in that order. (source: Wikipedia)

--They fell victim to the fascist Ustasha regime of the Second World War Independent State of Croatia (NDH). Ustashas killed over 40,000 people in this village in 1941, Tadić's maternal grandfather among them. On Sunday, the president said that he was honored to be able to pay his respect to the victims, who he said must never be forgotten.--

I do agree that the many 1,000s of victims of jasenovac and surrounding camps must never be forgotten. we may never know the exact #, but that is not the point. and yes, they were mainly serbs, also jews and roma, and also croatian political dissidents -- communists, etc. that seldom gets mentioned, especially here, since it is much more politically opportunistic to tie in "fascist" with Croatian (or any other ethnicity) instead of delineating the very polarized positions of the common people of that period.

my argument is certainly not with memorializing these victims and their families, who should be, who should have been entitled to reparations, but due to political exigencies... same thing with our family, butchered in poland. somehow no one ever took responsibility, felt they needed to pay reparations, just more murdered jews, who cares?

my argument (w tadic and many others) is how ww2 is instrumentalized, has been instrumentalized. it has been argued that the horrors of ww2 caused the horrors of the 90s. i'm sure on some level that is true, but it is more true to say that the incidious instrumentalization of ww2 (think milosevic TV, day after day, week after week, etc.)helped to put people in the mood -- the mood for intense paranoia, the mood for murder and mayhem, the mood for genocide, which was then (and even now) so easily justified in people's minds by these ww2 horrors.

of course, this is ignoring the broader truth of ww2 in the former YU, as we have discussed here many times. you had people from each and every ethnicity fighting on each and every side, and brutally -- in that sense it was much more a true civil war than the 90s, despite the obvious factor of the german, italian and other outside forces.

it wasn't just fascist croatia -- there was also fascist serbia -- thousands of nazi collaborationist forces, headquartered in blgd, who were busy commiting an earlier (than the 90s) ethnic cleansing. it is just ridiculous to always ignore that reality, and the role of the orthodox church in promoting and rationalizing the holocaust. there is a great deal of documentation in this area -- "Serbia's Secret War" being just one of many works, and excellently sourced.

and the chetniks, the WW2 chetniks, often fought together with the german nazi forces, and clearly engaged in widespread ethnic cleansing (genocide) ag. moslem civilians, and albanian civilians as well. we know this, but somehow in b-92 land it is always lost.

as for the 90s, we have a tremendous amount of documentation regarding at least 100 concentration camps set up inside bosnia and serbia itself. most of the bosnian ones were run by serb fascist forces, but some were run by croatian fascists, for ex. the helioport by Mostar -- just one example. it just does not help to pretend otherwise.

as for Tadic's "apology" about srbrenica, technically, it is true. there was tremendous pressure put on him by the eu to make such an "apology" -- and when push comes to shove, tadic reacts. exactly as he did by arresting mladic, meaning to stop harboring him. then immediately after, serbia's parliament passed a resolution relativizing all war guilt. so much for an apology! ask the survivors of srebrenica (meaning mostly the widows) what they think of that "apology."

i will include a link i just found about the Karakaj conc camp. again, it is just one of many -- i've read a lot about this camp, and it is just horror after horror:

http://genocideinbosnia.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/bosnian-genocide-survivor-of-the-karakaj-massacre-up-to-700-killed/

so one set of horrors does not justify the next, get it? and yes, we have the right, and responsibility, to demand acknowledgement of war crimes guilt, and reparations. all parties who engaged in war crimes ag. civilians must be held accountable. in the case of serbian crimes, belgd is directly responsible, and must take responsibility and ultimately pay reparations. period.

In real life, however, the blgd regime openly supports the fascist clique in banja luka, which continues to push the milosevic/karadzic/mladic program.

thank you. tung. ciao roberto frisco

I like how B92 has to put "WW2" in the title before "fascist Croat regime" to differentiate it from the 1990s "fascist Croat regime" :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 27 June 2011 16:52)

Comment -

It is in reality the same as Tudjman was an Ustasla-Colonel during the W.W.2.

Further -

Croatia has also threathen the Bosnian Serbs with War if they Declare Indipendence.

So as i understand -
Croatia is the same and only the surface has changed by tactical reasons and are only for show,
for sertainly Croatia has Military Plans for to take the whole of Bosnia.

Arn.Sweden.

Anyone viciously attacking the heroic Serbs for attempting to defend themselves and prevent yet another holocaust is pure evil.

Peggy, I've been on this forum fo years and personnally I think that you're the best denier of what happened during the war in the Balkans. We all admit that the Serbs have suffered as all others ethnies, but have you?

The truth is fascists still govern in Croatia, especially in Dalmatia, and I should know after spending months there every year. Still in Croatia today a Serb cannot call himself a Serb without being met with threats, I myself was questioned by police for listening to Serbian music, and when I asked them what about people listening to the fascist ustasa rock singer thompson, they fell silent. Not that I am in favour of the EU, but the fact that the EU wants to accept Croatia says something in itself, Germany and Croatia remain to be especially friendly nations, doesn't that remind you of something...?

And to all those Croats or anti-Serbs here, if you want to rant against Serbian people then this isnt the place. We are talking here about CROATIAN USTASE crimes, not anything else so stop trying to change the subject and face these disgusting crimes or simply keep your mouths shut. The Ustase leader, Ante Pavelic, had a policy for the Serbs in WWII, a third to be exterminated, a third to be deported and a third to be converted to Catholicism. Doesn't Oluja or Operation Storm in 1995 aided by the Americans in which near half a million Serbs were expelled from Krajina remind us of the policy to deport Serbs? I think one would be stupid not to see this similarity.

The Signatures - Lenard - Kosovo - USA.

This is the oppinion by Selfdeceivers deceived by the Evil One.

They dont take Hostoric Times into their Oppinion and think this last conflict is a new one.

No !

this last conflict is the same conflict that has been going on since the last several Houndreds of Years,
because National Personalities and Consciousnesses lives Houndreds and even Thousends of Years,
and its Experienses and Sentiments and sins,
can flare up any time,especially in times of crisises,
from the National subconsciousnesses and then repeating itself.

God bevere from those Shortsighted Ones, taking their stand only from what they personally has experiensed and seen,
but on the contrary they are not honest and sinsere within themselves,
they are false and Hypocritical as according to me.

Arn.Sweden.

Everybody needs to read John Pilgers article on the crisis in yugoslavia for those who can read
(mia, 28 June 2011 02:16)
=======================

That's very true mia, but for people like Roberto Pilger is poison.
I have posted many links to Pilger's articles and many others but it's like spreading poison to our resident denier Roberto and his followers.

My opinion as an Outsider !.

"Croatia celebrates, Serbia mourns"

Comment -

Has anything changed in the Subconscious National consciousnes of Croatia ?.

Can not the Serbian Paticipants hear the Cry by their Murdered Countrymens Eternal Blood from the Ground ?

What are this Blood Crying for -

A Participaton in this Superficial memory organised by this current Surface Mentality and Consciousnes of Croatia ?

Surely those Paticipants are Selfdeceivers as Regarding what an National Consciousnes in reality is.

Arn.Sweden.

Roberto said:
"and the chetniks, the WW2 chetniks, often fought together with the german nazi forces, and clearly engaged in widespread ethnic cleansing (genocide) ag. moslem civilians, and albanian civilians as well. we know this, but somehow in b-92 land it is always lost."
=============================

Roberto, do you have an education? Please do get one because Cetniks fought AGAINST Nazi Croatians and Nazi Germans. It's well recorded in history. Granted not in Croatian or Albanian history but in history of every other human on this planet.

If what you say is true then I can guarantee you that Centniks would NOT be allowed to march on Aznac day in Australia with all the other ALLIES.
Yes, Roberto, allies. Now we know that Nazis were not allies so there must be only one reason they are allowed to march.
Watch and weap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdWKrYyIlto

Yes, Roberto, allies. Now we know that Nazis were not allies so there must be only one reason they are allowed to march.
Watch and weap.
[link]
(Peggy, 28 June 2011 10:46)
--
Thanks for that Peggy. Yes, the Chetniks march proudly on ANZAC day in Australia. Their leader, Draza, was awarded the Legion of Merit by the US and also Ronald Reagan honoured the Chetniks when he was US President. Our local hate spreader and venom spitter roberto, however, supports the Bosnian Muslims who along with the Croatians were fighting with the fascist NAZIs. Check -> http://emperors-clothes.com/bosnia/svijet.htm

What the revisionists like roberto are attempting to do now, through hate and lies, is to link the anti-fascists with fascism and the fascists with anti-fascism. History repeats and fascism is on the rise but it will be defeated once again. We will defeat the fascists even through their trickery, hate and lies. It is not sustainable.

«If standing up for my people is denying crimes committed over there then yes I am a denier.»

Standing up with your people does not mean that you have to stand up with criminals who raped, killed and tortured innocents civilians, as it had happened all over Bosnia. I don't have to watch CNN as you say to know what a few have accomplished in detention camps as Omarska, Brcko and Trnopolje. They were not defending your people by killing innocent civilians. Do you agree!

Everybody needs to read John Pilgers article on the crisis in yugoslavia for those who can read

Peggy, I've been on this forum fo years and personnally I think that you're the best denier of what happened during the war in the Balkans. We all admit that the Serbs have suffered as all others ethnies, but have you?
(ZZ, 28 June 2011 12:27)
===========================

ZZ, show me where I have denied anything. If standing up for my people is denying crimes committed over there then yes I am a denier.
I have always maintained that all I want is the truth to come out. The whole truth and not just the CNN version of it.
There is nothing denied here. Do prove me wrong.

Throughout the War, the Chetnik movement remained almost completely inactive .......
Source:Wikipedia
(Iznogoud, 28 June 2011 20:57)

Use a reliable source
take George Orwell (possibly the greatest writer of the 20th century) for example


the British press has in almost all cases sided with the faction favoured by the Russians and libelled the opposing faction, sometimes suppressing material evidence in order to do so. A particularly glaring case was that of Colonel Mihailovich, the Jugoslav Chetnik leader. The Russians, who had their own Jugoslav protégé in Marshal Tito, accused Mihailovich of collaborating with the Germans. This accusation was promptly taken up by the British press: Mihailovich's supporters were given no chance of answering it, and facts contradicting it were simply kept out of print. In July of 1943 the Germans offered a reward of 100,000 gold crowns for the capture of Tito, and a similar reward for the capture of Mihailovich. The British press 'splashed' the reward for Tito, but only one paper mentioned (in small print) the reward for Mihailovich: and the charges of collaborating with the Germans continued." - Preface to Animal Farm

Boris Tadic said on Sunday that Croatia has to try war crimes cases originating from Operation Storm 1995, when a quarter of a million ethnic Serbs were driven out of their homes in Croatia. How is Serbia the instigator of war criminal aggression on Croatia, Bosnia ,Kosovo ,Slovenia trying its many criminal murderers ethnic cleansers that reside in and supported by Serbia. Or the freak Srpska entity aka Greater Serbia in the country of Bosnia that you wholeheartedly support Boris based on horrendous evils likes not seen since WW2. I guarantee you that freak murderous "Srpska" will be the configuration for war in the not distant future. When are the 100s thousands Bosniaks ,Croatians and all the other peoples going to return to their homes in factitious Srpska. The many criminal Serbs in it going to face justice for their horrendous crimes. Do not preach to us Boris and Serbs until you clean the stench from your wicked pursuit of a Greater Serbia and make restitution to the millions victims of it. Then you mite have something worth while saying your neighbours will then listen but now it is full of subterfuge and lies from Serbs of Belgrade Serbia who made all these disasters.

"Tens of thousands of people were murdered here just because they had their identity, name, conviction, faith. That must never be forgotten. Innocent victims deserve our memory, today, and every year to come, here as well as in Pag and Jasenovac," Tadić said, mentioning the largest death camp ran by the NDH.


and, 200 thousand were killed in 1990-1999 just for the sake of creation of Greater Serbia.All those were killed because they were not Serbians!!!

You Serbs live in a delusional Serb world no body is buying it you've made enemys of your neighbours by your own evil home grown Serb fascism pursuits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Serbia#Failure_of_the_Greater_Serbian_project . It is just on the back burner for now because of the worlds gaze on it and got your bully stuffing kicked. Even now we have a Serb Dodo pushing for it in the country of Bosnia but gets slapped by the international community and retreats to criminally plot again and again pretends to call it Serb democracy. Why is Serbian President Boris not rebuking Dodo telling him NO in definet unquibble terms to his criminal pursuit of destroying the country of Bosnia. But instead giving him support by subterfuge and any way other way of accomplishing the evil of a Greater Srbia project as the long history testifies of its many morally bankrupt evils. It rears its ugly head at the first opportunity Serb fascism goals presents it self and it thinks it can get away with its Serb radical pogroms. The Serb morons of Greater Serbia for 100s of years have pushed by war wholesale murder ethnic cleansing pogroms theft on the surrounding countrys peoples by Serb fascist domination ideology. First to the south then west then to the east now the latest to the north. Now the Serbs wonder why they are estranged turn their neighbours in to enemies and cant get along gee go figure rocket scientist.

Lenard,

I don't know where you got your all hate for Serbia and Serbian people.
Where you've been during 80's adn 90's. I can see you rely only on CNN propaganda who fabricated all lies during these and later years likes WMD - and exegeration of Srebrenica victims - but at same time killing hundrands thousands of civilians all over the world, doing humanitarian bombings, re-building Iraq, Afganistan and Libia but achieving self-distruction during the process. Almost bankrupt along the EU (only Germnany still can stood on its own) and asking for help and loans from China and Russia.

But back to what you should know - who started and guilty for wars in Yugoslavia. Croats - Mesic - claimed proudly - I destroyed Yugoslavia, Alija was offered confederation and peace but cheated first accepting but then listen to Ameracans and choose the war. Kosovo continuation of terror Serbs for years and when got response run to mountains and asked for help. Result again - Sarajevo ethnically cleaned, Krajina - Croatia and Kosovo almost.

And you still sing the same falsh poem. Not to go back to Jasenovac and balist times. You choose wrong side so many times and not getting the lesson. If something big happen on world stage in future I am sure you're choosing wrong side again and we will be forced to accept you once again in some future YU- EU - slavia and give you one more chance but will be stabed in back again. Zalosno ali istinito.

When is he going to visit Srebrenica?

To the Croats and Albanians,
This topic is for the 40000 victims in jadovno.
I hope these horrible crimes will never be forgotten!
And about:
Republika srpska is not greater serbia.
Yugoslavia was greater Serbia, croat/albanian and bosnian muslims wanted to have their own ethnic pure country, and that is what happend and not that serbs where fighting for greater serbia because they already had it!
I hope you can understand that.
cheers

Republika srpska is not greater serbia.
Yugoslavia was greater Serbia, croat/albanian and bosnian muslims wanted to have their own ethnic pure country, and that is what happend and not that serbs where fighting for greater serbia because they already had it!
I hope you can understand that.
cheers
(mick, 27 June 2011 14:36)

I think the world pretty much understands that Serbia wanted to be masters of the others not so much to have an ethnically pure society. they only wanted to cleanse the ones who would not submit.

I heard Misha Glenny on the waxing lyrical about Croatia joining the EU as if that somehow removes the taint of fascism from Croatian thinking. I do not have the impression that that taint is removed - and I do not believe that Croatia is ready for the EU. I would like to see much more soul searching about the criminal past - soul searching done in public. The recent visit by the pope did nothing to convince me that Croatia has moved on.

There is a certain pride in Croatia - a sense of superiority as if their links to the Hungarian empire in the past made them more deserving than other Slavs!!

The blame is always put on Serbia for starting the recent wars - yet words like "Serbs hanging from the willows" were graffitied in Croatia in the 1980s, long before the troubles started.

I would like to see some of the Croatian arrogance defeated. Serbia has moved on further in the last ten years than Croatia has in terms of facing up to the defeat of its arrogant nationalists.

The Jasenovac murders of the second world war stand out as some of the worst scale atrocities and are not adequately answered. Croatia was born out of that blood - can you convince me that it is not still proud of its history?

Croats and albanians commenting here are truly amazing. This article is about the hudreds of thousands of Serbs killed by the Ustashe. And you turn it into croat/albanian suffering. "It all about me, me, me, me."
Serbs who were massacred by croats doesn't count because???

Lenard
If croats didn't do what they did to Serbs during WW2 there wouldn't have been a war in the 90s. And understand one thing you hypocrit: this articles is about croat warcrimes not Republika Srpska. You turn any subject into an issue about Republika Srpska. Srpska is a reality, deal with it.

I thank God Almigthy that Yugoslavia is no more. To live with hypocrits and evil people like croats and especially albanians are is a blessing. Stick to you drugsmugling and human trafficing and leave us the hell alone. You come to a Serbian forum and you hate the Serbs. You must know you are hypocrits of the worst kind.

My opinion as an Outsider !.

"Croatia celebrates, Serbia mourns"

Comment -

Has anything changed in the Subconscious National consciousnes of Croatia ?.

Can not the Serbian Paticipants hear the Cry by their Murdered Countrymens Eternal Blood from the Ground ?

What are this Blood Crying for -

A Participaton in this Superficial memory organised by this current Surface Mentality and Consciousnes of Croatia ?

Surely those Paticipants are Selfdeceivers as Regarding what an National Consciousnes in reality is.

Arn.Sweden.

As we know Croatia escaped Nuernberg Tribunal only because it was a part of SFRY but now that they are free to praise the Nazi Serbia as the most suffered side have moral rights to ask for contribution. You canmot defend all the time and complain to your rivals that they mistreat you.

PEN,

"Ivan"'s great grandfather probably served proudly in the Skanderbeg SS and "Ivan" is carrying "just" on the family tradition of hate.

When is he going to visit Srebrenica?
(ivan, 27 June 2011 12:57)
========================

He's done better than that. He has apologiesd. When are you guys going to apologise for anything?

The Signatures - Lenard - Kosovo - USA.

This is the oppinion by Selfdeceivers deceived by the Evil One.

They dont take Hostoric Times into their Oppinion and think this last conflict is a new one.

No !

this last conflict is the same conflict that has been going on since the last several Houndreds of Years,
because National Personalities and Consciousnesses lives Houndreds and even Thousends of Years,
and its Experienses and Sentiments and sins,
can flare up any time,especially in times of crisises,
from the National subconsciousnesses and then repeating itself.

God bevere from those Shortsighted Ones, taking their stand only from what they personally has experiensed and seen,
but on the contrary they are not honest and sinsere within themselves,
they are false and Hypocritical as according to me.

Arn.Sweden.

Lenard,

All innocent, regardless of ethnicity, deserve justice and respect.

Intentionally disrespecting the dead, as you do, just because they are Serbs and spewing your incoherent hatred speaks very poorly of you as a compassionate and supposed Christian.

I like how B92 has to put "WW2" in the title before "fascist Croat regime" to differentiate it from the 1990s "fascist Croat regime" :)

I like how B92 has to put "WW2" in the title before "fascist Croat regime" to differentiate it from the 1990s "fascist Croat regime" :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 27 June 2011 16:52)

Comment -

It is in reality the same as Tudjman was an Ustasla-Colonel during the W.W.2.

Further -

Croatia has also threathen the Bosnian Serbs with War if they Declare Indipendence.

So as i understand -
Croatia is the same and only the surface has changed by tactical reasons and are only for show,
for sertainly Croatia has Military Plans for to take the whole of Bosnia.

Arn.Sweden.

And you, Lenard, live in your delusional world and you are one of B92's top-five hate moguls. Who needs enemies with loyal "friends" like you?

MikeC you sure are one noisy loose canon maybe not their are few other ones with you. One wrong makes another wrong and then it multiplies expansively in to infinite of wrongs. Yore Serbian Boris comes to Croatia to tell us how we are bad. Then goes to Srbia and lauds the Serbs how really good they are and how wonderful criminal Greater Serbia in Bosnia is and how Belgrade Serbia has special optimal relation wit it. They do not mention on B92 either of the Croatian antifascist resisters murdered their also. Serbia dose no do much until the spotlight is focused on it and can swap something for its criminal activity for gain. Its not in any way shape or form sorry it just justifies it self only for expediency that it mite get a reward. Like I have said many times ours and yores murdering slaughtering raping Fascist are having one hell of a time in hell for eternity. It is sad so many people approve of what they did and are willing to live on their horrendous criminal abominations and pursue it to their own ultimate destruction.

The simple fact is that Croatia is founded on genocide and ethnic cleansing. This is not opinion it's an easily verifiable fact.

Anyone viciously attacking the heroic Serbs for attempting to defend themselves and prevent yet another holocaust is pure evil.

The truth is fascists still govern in Croatia, especially in Dalmatia, and I should know after spending months there every year. Still in Croatia today a Serb cannot call himself a Serb without being met with threats, I myself was questioned by police for listening to Serbian music, and when I asked them what about people listening to the fascist ustasa rock singer thompson, they fell silent. Not that I am in favour of the EU, but the fact that the EU wants to accept Croatia says something in itself, Germany and Croatia remain to be especially friendly nations, doesn't that remind you of something...?

And to all those Croats or anti-Serbs here, if you want to rant against Serbian people then this isnt the place. We are talking here about CROATIAN USTASE crimes, not anything else so stop trying to change the subject and face these disgusting crimes or simply keep your mouths shut. The Ustase leader, Ante Pavelic, had a policy for the Serbs in WWII, a third to be exterminated, a third to be deported and a third to be converted to Catholicism. Doesn't Oluja or Operation Storm in 1995 aided by the Americans in which near half a million Serbs were expelled from Krajina remind us of the policy to deport Serbs? I think one would be stupid not to see this similarity.

Roberto said:
"and the chetniks, the WW2 chetniks, often fought together with the german nazi forces, and clearly engaged in widespread ethnic cleansing (genocide) ag. moslem civilians, and albanian civilians as well. we know this, but somehow in b-92 land it is always lost."
=============================

Roberto, do you have an education? Please do get one because Cetniks fought AGAINST Nazi Croatians and Nazi Germans. It's well recorded in history. Granted not in Croatian or Albanian history but in history of every other human on this planet.

If what you say is true then I can guarantee you that Centniks would NOT be allowed to march on Aznac day in Australia with all the other ALLIES.
Yes, Roberto, allies. Now we know that Nazis were not allies so there must be only one reason they are allowed to march.
Watch and weap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdWKrYyIlto

Yes, Roberto, allies. Now we know that Nazis were not allies so there must be only one reason they are allowed to march.
Watch and weap.
[link]
(Peggy, 28 June 2011 10:46)
--
Thanks for that Peggy. Yes, the Chetniks march proudly on ANZAC day in Australia. Their leader, Draza, was awarded the Legion of Merit by the US and also Ronald Reagan honoured the Chetniks when he was US President. Our local hate spreader and venom spitter roberto, however, supports the Bosnian Muslims who along with the Croatians were fighting with the fascist NAZIs. Check -> http://emperors-clothes.com/bosnia/svijet.htm

What the revisionists like roberto are attempting to do now, through hate and lies, is to link the anti-fascists with fascism and the fascists with anti-fascism. History repeats and fascism is on the rise but it will be defeated once again. We will defeat the fascists even through their trickery, hate and lies. It is not sustainable.

--They fell victim to the fascist Ustasha regime of the Second World War Independent State of Croatia (NDH). Ustashas killed over 40,000 people in this village in 1941, Tadić's maternal grandfather among them. On Sunday, the president said that he was honored to be able to pay his respect to the victims, who he said must never be forgotten.--

I do agree that the many 1,000s of victims of jasenovac and surrounding camps must never be forgotten. we may never know the exact #, but that is not the point. and yes, they were mainly serbs, also jews and roma, and also croatian political dissidents -- communists, etc. that seldom gets mentioned, especially here, since it is much more politically opportunistic to tie in "fascist" with Croatian (or any other ethnicity) instead of delineating the very polarized positions of the common people of that period.

my argument is certainly not with memorializing these victims and their families, who should be, who should have been entitled to reparations, but due to political exigencies... same thing with our family, butchered in poland. somehow no one ever took responsibility, felt they needed to pay reparations, just more murdered jews, who cares?

my argument (w tadic and many others) is how ww2 is instrumentalized, has been instrumentalized. it has been argued that the horrors of ww2 caused the horrors of the 90s. i'm sure on some level that is true, but it is more true to say that the incidious instrumentalization of ww2 (think milosevic TV, day after day, week after week, etc.)helped to put people in the mood -- the mood for intense paranoia, the mood for murder and mayhem, the mood for genocide, which was then (and even now) so easily justified in people's minds by these ww2 horrors.

of course, this is ignoring the broader truth of ww2 in the former YU, as we have discussed here many times. you had people from each and every ethnicity fighting on each and every side, and brutally -- in that sense it was much more a true civil war than the 90s, despite the obvious factor of the german, italian and other outside forces.

it wasn't just fascist croatia -- there was also fascist serbia -- thousands of nazi collaborationist forces, headquartered in blgd, who were busy commiting an earlier (than the 90s) ethnic cleansing. it is just ridiculous to always ignore that reality, and the role of the orthodox church in promoting and rationalizing the holocaust. there is a great deal of documentation in this area -- "Serbia's Secret War" being just one of many works, and excellently sourced.

and the chetniks, the WW2 chetniks, often fought together with the german nazi forces, and clearly engaged in widespread ethnic cleansing (genocide) ag. moslem civilians, and albanian civilians as well. we know this, but somehow in b-92 land it is always lost.

as for the 90s, we have a tremendous amount of documentation regarding at least 100 concentration camps set up inside bosnia and serbia itself. most of the bosnian ones were run by serb fascist forces, but some were run by croatian fascists, for ex. the helioport by Mostar -- just one example. it just does not help to pretend otherwise.

as for Tadic's "apology" about srbrenica, technically, it is true. there was tremendous pressure put on him by the eu to make such an "apology" -- and when push comes to shove, tadic reacts. exactly as he did by arresting mladic, meaning to stop harboring him. then immediately after, serbia's parliament passed a resolution relativizing all war guilt. so much for an apology! ask the survivors of srebrenica (meaning mostly the widows) what they think of that "apology."

i will include a link i just found about the Karakaj conc camp. again, it is just one of many -- i've read a lot about this camp, and it is just horror after horror:

http://genocideinbosnia.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/bosnian-genocide-survivor-of-the-karakaj-massacre-up-to-700-killed/

so one set of horrors does not justify the next, get it? and yes, we have the right, and responsibility, to demand acknowledgement of war crimes guilt, and reparations. all parties who engaged in war crimes ag. civilians must be held accountable. in the case of serbian crimes, belgd is directly responsible, and must take responsibility and ultimately pay reparations. period.

In real life, however, the blgd regime openly supports the fascist clique in banja luka, which continues to push the milosevic/karadzic/mladic program.

thank you. tung. ciao roberto frisco

Peggy, I've been on this forum fo years and personnally I think that you're the best denier of what happened during the war in the Balkans. We all admit that the Serbs have suffered as all others ethnies, but have you?
(ZZ, 28 June 2011 12:27)
===========================

ZZ, show me where I have denied anything. If standing up for my people is denying crimes committed over there then yes I am a denier.
I have always maintained that all I want is the truth to come out. The whole truth and not just the CNN version of it.
There is nothing denied here. Do prove me wrong.

Ivan; When are you going to visit Jasenovac, or Kragujevac, or a dozen other places where Serbs were massacred by fascist occupiers. The answer- never. So do us all a favour and put a cork in it pal.

Everybody needs to read John Pilgers article on the crisis in yugoslavia for those who can read
(mia, 28 June 2011 02:16)
=======================

That's very true mia, but for people like Roberto Pilger is poison.
I have posted many links to Pilger's articles and many others but it's like spreading poison to our resident denier Roberto and his followers.

@ Ivan.

He did last year.

Please do get one because Cetniks fought AGAINST Nazi Croatians and Nazi Germans. It's well recorded in history.
***
Throughout the War, the Chetnik movement remained almost completely inactive against the occupation forces, and increasingly collaborated with the Axis, losing its international recognition as the Yugoslav resistance force. After a brief initial period of cooperation, the Partisans and the Chetniks quickly started fighting against each other. Gradually, the Chetniks ended up primarily fighting the Partisans instead of the occupation forces, and started cooperating with the Axis in their struggle to destroy the resistance, receiving increasing amounts of logistical assistance. Mihailović admitted to a British colonel that the Chetniks' principle enemies were "the partisans, the Ustasha, the Muslims, the Croats and last the Germans and Italians" in that order. (source: Wikipedia)

As a young Canadian, I can hardly believe that such crimes occurred during the war. Some 40 000 civilians killed in 3 months. I agree that we must never forget the dreadful faith of these innocent women, men and children. May they rest in peace.

Everybody needs to read John Pilgers article on the crisis in yugoslavia for those who can read

Peggy, I've been on this forum fo years and personnally I think that you're the best denier of what happened during the war in the Balkans. We all admit that the Serbs have suffered as all others ethnies, but have you?

«If standing up for my people is denying crimes committed over there then yes I am a denier.»

Standing up with your people does not mean that you have to stand up with criminals who raped, killed and tortured innocents civilians, as it had happened all over Bosnia. I don't have to watch CNN as you say to know what a few have accomplished in detention camps as Omarska, Brcko and Trnopolje. They were not defending your people by killing innocent civilians. Do you agree!

Throughout the War, the Chetnik movement remained almost completely inactive .......
Source:Wikipedia
(Iznogoud, 28 June 2011 20:57)

Use a reliable source
take George Orwell (possibly the greatest writer of the 20th century) for example


the British press has in almost all cases sided with the faction favoured by the Russians and libelled the opposing faction, sometimes suppressing material evidence in order to do so. A particularly glaring case was that of Colonel Mihailovich, the Jugoslav Chetnik leader. The Russians, who had their own Jugoslav protégé in Marshal Tito, accused Mihailovich of collaborating with the Germans. This accusation was promptly taken up by the British press: Mihailovich's supporters were given no chance of answering it, and facts contradicting it were simply kept out of print. In July of 1943 the Germans offered a reward of 100,000 gold crowns for the capture of Tito, and a similar reward for the capture of Mihailovich. The British press 'splashed' the reward for Tito, but only one paper mentioned (in small print) the reward for Mihailovich: and the charges of collaborating with the Germans continued." - Preface to Animal Farm