Belgrade negotiating team chief Borislav Stefanović said on Wednesday that the first concrete results of the Kosovo talks can be expected early next month.
It's not about being'strong' or not. It's about a club that can that can decide on its own who they accept as new members. If this club invites somebody, nobody is forcing anyone. I never understood that some Serbs sthing that the EU needs Serbia. It's more the other way around. If Serbia wants to become an EU member, it has to fulfill all the conditions needed. They are clearly defined, and they don't include 'recognizing Kosovo'. Please have in mind that there are five EU member states that don't recognize a stated created by an UDI, and they probably will never do it until a mutual agreement has been found. One more thing: Without a mutual agreement, Kosovo will never become an UN member, and never an EU member.
(Top, 23 June 2011 18:52)
I agree with some of what you say but you seem to be missing the point on one crucial area. The EU acts as a whole in setting up for Serbia to get into the EU. However, each individual state has to vote to a final approvement. Like Germany has said that means the govt of each state. Now the chances of Serbia convincing all 22 to vote in favor while Serbia is still trying to block Kosovo's admission, is eponentially slimmer than convincing the 5 to approve Kosovo. So if Serbia does not come into an agreement with Kosovo it too will never make it to the EU. So there is equally as much pressure if not more on Serbia to come to terms on Kosovo status that is acceptable to all parties. Once that is done there is no obstacle for Kosovo except Kosovo itself.
Kosovo will have to meet the same standards as everyone else, no free ride, unless Serbia keeps forcing the issue and the EU has to become creative and develop a special class for Kosovo. Kosovo has become an EU project and they are not going to say we embrace you Serbia eventhough you are causing so much grief.
At what point does one realize that he/she is speaking out of her/his asshole. In any case Kosova is winning even with moronic pocket thieves like Hashim Thaqi and co.
"But you were just been told yesterday by the Germans to recognize DE FACTO or no EU for Serbia.It means:Live and let live"
(Mark, 23 June 2011 18:33)
That's why there are these Belgrad-Pristina talks: About live and let live, the everyday issues. The results will be that Serbia will recognize Kosovo documents and number plates, for example, in exchange Pristina will stop playing silly games with "custom stamps" and confiscating Serbian number plates, trying to impose custom dutys for Serbs 'importing'(haha) goods from Serbia, and things like that. Belgrade can say stilly that they don't recognize Kosovo, Kosovo can keep the illusion that it is an 'independent' state (recognized by less than 50% of the countries), and Germany will be happy that Serbia recognizes Kosovo 'de facto'
"Nope! No way to force Serbia to recognize Kosova. Serbia is too strong!
(The Truth Chicago, 23 June 2011 16:48)
It's not about being'strong' or not. It's about a club that can that can decide on its own who they accept as new members. If this club invites somebody, nobody is forcing anyone. I never understood that some Serbs sthing that the EU needs Serbia. It's more the other way around. If Serbia wants to become an EU member, it has to fulfill all the conditions needed. They are clearly defined, and they don't include 'recognizing Kosovo'. Please have in mind that there are five EU member states that don't recognize a stated created by an UDI, and they probably will never do it until a mutual agreement has been found. One more thing: Without a mutual agreement, Kosovo will never become an UN member, and never an EU member.
"Nobody has asked Serbia to do so, nor will the country do that, because there is simply no way to force Serbia to do so," said he.
Be more honest please.Nobody has asked Serbia to recognize Kosovo DE JURE and nobody con force you to do that.But you were just been told yesterday by the Germans to recognize DE FACTO or no EU for Serbia.It means:Live and let live.Now how is Serbia going to force Germany and 21 other EU members to do something that they don't want to do?
@Demi-It is easy to be smart and demanding while someone else is protecting your behind, regardless of how bad you are. Remembre, things can change very quickly. Lybia comes to mind. So, get of your high horse before you fall down on your head and hurt yourself.
Nope! No way to force Serbia to recognize Kosova. Serbia is too strong! Except the USA/NATO forced Serbia OUT of Kosova. Except for the USA overthrowing the Serbian government of Milosevic by funding Otpor and supporting opposition groups. Except for making the Serbians hand over each and every war criminal right up until Mladic! I thought Mladic was a national hero? I guess not.
So, you can take Serbias word, or you can recognize and acknowledge the facts on the ground as they've been unfolding since 1999.
It's all about the pre-accession funds...Serbia has asked Brussels to open the vallet for their agonizing economy...Brussels aka Berlin has raised the obligations for Belgrade...We have arrived to the point that many here in Italy have always thought ...the deal---MONEY FOR KOSOVO...NEXT MONTHS WILL BE INTERESTING...everything can happen !
The real problems for serbs is the absence of a leader capable of create a path for the future, the today officials put themselves on the ease position of “don t lose” and whoever offer alternative compromises automatically is labeled “traitors”, the situation can be compared at of a pilot in a tempest who thinks that is only keep firm the direction and soon the weather will change… well, the Titanic commandant did not succeed… so is necessary have a true vision of the situation and do the correct commands, hiding in denials can be suicidal.
In these denials serbs customary try misunderstanding comparisons for justify their route thru their ever only wished final scene, the creation of the Great Serbia, such comparisons are inutiles because its only express dream not the correct understanding of the actuality, there are not possible “more than autonomy less than independence” drafting, this is only rhetoric for secure today position that cannot be drove to the desired end, the China/ Taiwan or the China/ Hong Kong scenario is far away from the Serbia problems, if one try put the question on a parallel comparison the only suitable is the ancient Persian empire, the Persian empire ruled itself and many neighbor nations BUT they had a superior culture and don’t imposed it upon their subjugated nations only general guidelines for cohesion, the former king was converted in a satrap, a local governor, Serbian instead ever wanted a landlord/ mujik relation and have not superior culture nor economy than his neighbors so maintain Yugoslavia turned a impossible dream and the Milosevic “clean up” of “Serbian lands” too, the today Jeremic´s strategy of use of diplomatic weapon instead milosevic´s open brutality is impossible succeed, world is being tired of Serbian naïve arrogance and delusional path, Russia understood the URSS time was over, Sebian need understand that Yugoslavia time ended too, serbians need the Israel correct approach of swap lands for peace and change its focus for internal reality and problems, Serbia needs compromise and not recreate the domino concept, immobility only will put neighbor on desperation and Kosovo was a very example of this, Serbia don’t have the reins of Balkans, jeremic and co must accept this bitter truth, don’t compromise means lose all.
Germans were wise on shake serbians for awakening but serbian themselves need do the job
By your logic Serbia will isolate ut self together with Bosnia and Kosovo and Eu would give in on serbian demand ?? That sounds very silly because Serbia is not an worldpower and needs Eu more than EU needs Serbia.
--
Demi, please come out of your black and white world. Serbia doesn't have to become an EU member to trade with it. We have a free trade agreement and we have visa free travel. We can work on improving our relations with the EU but that doesn't mean we have to become a member. As bganon mentioned yesterday, if not recognising "Kosova" means staying in the EU waiting room indefinitely then so be it.
As we once again move into a multi-polar world and as power and influence shifts eastwards then so will Serbia naturally. Most of our allies and friends are there so it puts us in a stronger position. It doesn't have to be one or the other, east or west, as I have always maintained that the balance needs to be right, east and west. We can do business with both but recognising "Kosova" is out of the question.
It was a very stupid move by those Germans. I always thought Germans were smarter than that. If they intend to ask Serbia to recognize an Albanian Kosovo to join the EU, by stating it now, they lost their upper hand. This give plenty of time for Serbia and Serbia's supporters to counter Germany's argument. Big mistake. The fact is that if Serbia will ever recognize an Albanian Kosovo, it will be a part of what it is today and it will be after the Albanians come to their senses and start negotiating instead of demanding things "as if" the Albanians have enough power and authority to do so. One must earn authority and so far the Albanians and Kosovo have earned nothing, not even the money they've stolen.
Nobody in Serbia will give up on EU for somthing it can never get (Kosovo). I thing the germans made it very clear to you yesterday and told you somthing we already knew for a while. But ofcourse Serbia can allways stay in the same level as Bosnia and Kosovo and let countrys like Macedonia,Albania and Croatia pass them in every aspect such as economy,social life and Eu integrartion.
By your logic Serbia will isolate ut self together with Bosnia and Kosovo and Eu would give in on serbian demand ?? That sounds very silly because Serbia is not an worldpower and needs Eu more than EU needs Serbia. You cannot isolate Bosnia since Bosnia would also enter EU. Nato and EU will not accept any problems coming from ''republica srpska'' and if there were problems it would solve them very fast.
The question is how long is Serbia ready to be out of Eu for the sake of somthing it cannot get ?? How many countrys will pass Serbia in EU integration before Serbia realises that there is no way without EU ?? Do you people wrelly belive that Russia and China is the right way to go ??
But all that I'am saying now is more or less rubish since both me and you Zoran knowes that Serbia in the end of the day will recognize Kosovo to enter EU in right time before other countrys pass Serbia. One reason is because in that right time Kosovo will function as an country without supervised independence and will act reciprocity towayds Serbia. The other thing is because by that time Kosovo will have an army as all other countrys and wil control N.Kosovo and the border to Serbia. Serbia by that time will know that Kosovo is a lost battle forever.
The main goal for Kosovo is to become and UN member. The main goal for Serbia isd to become and EU member. Both will get what they want. Eu will not stop to exist in 8 years as many serbs predicted yesterday in this forum :)
This and other Political Problems in the Balkans,
and even beyond,
with regard to the Serbian and other Peoples,
will only be solved by War.
When all National Consciousnesses arises in THAT conflict,
then everybody will to their surprise see,
that TIME is an ILLUSION,
and History of - Past - Present - Future,
is in the NOW and HERE.
Well, it sounds like some Germans got ahead of themselves. I hope they will eventually learn to leave Serbia alone before they get their backsides kicked again.
Recognition of "Kosova" will not happen and if this is a condition some will demand then it just means Serbia will not join the EU along with BiH and KiM. It seems many Serbians are quite happy with that arrangement.
I'm glad progress is being made towards settling everyday issues in these negotiations. I do expect Serbia to recognise "Kosova" documents and I don't see it out of scope of more than autonomy, less than independence. The Hong Kong model has been proposed before and in that system Hong Kong is considered sovereign to China but the citizens there have their own passport. The Albanians must remember that for Serbia to accept "Kosova" documents then Pristina must also accept Serbian documents. So Serbians in KiM will be tied to Serbian structures while ethnic Albanians will have self-rule. It sounds like a good compromise to me.
More than autonomy, less than independence is self-fulfilling. It will bring peace to the region and I do hope truth and reconciliation gathers more steam. Finding the missing and stopping the hate is a great step forward. Of course we will always have the hate spreaders but I hope more will see through them and live peacefully.
Please don't get too hung up on a German Parliamentary group and what it says. No one can force anyone to recognise a nation. Hong Kong is certainly a good example of a way forward. However remember that this arrangement was agreed to last only 50 years after the colony's hand over to China. These arrangements may still change once this time is up. China needs Hong Kong and is using the former colony as a test bed for a wider roll out of democracy across the whole of China. Kosovo needs Serbia and its other neighbours to survive once the EU and other foreign backers have gone. Why can't every one in the Balkans realise that they have more in common than they think.
By your logic Serbia will isolate ut self together with Bosnia and Kosovo and Eu would give in on serbian demand ?? That sounds very silly because Serbia is not an worldpower and needs Eu more than EU needs Serbia.
--
Demi, please come out of your black and white world. Serbia doesn't have to become an EU member to trade with it. We have a free trade agreement and we have visa free travel. We can work on improving our relations with the EU but that doesn't mean we have to become a member. As bganon mentioned yesterday, if not recognising "Kosova" means staying in the EU waiting room indefinitely then so be it.
As we once again move into a multi-polar world and as power and influence shifts eastwards then so will Serbia naturally. Most of our allies and friends are there so it puts us in a stronger position. It doesn't have to be one or the other, east or west, as I have always maintained that the balance needs to be right, east and west. We can do business with both but recognising "Kosova" is out of the question.
Nobody in Serbia will give up on EU for somthing it can never get (Kosovo). I thing the germans made it very clear to you yesterday and told you somthing we already knew for a while. But ofcourse Serbia can allways stay in the same level as Bosnia and Kosovo and let countrys like Macedonia,Albania and Croatia pass them in every aspect such as economy,social life and Eu integrartion.
By your logic Serbia will isolate ut self together with Bosnia and Kosovo and Eu would give in on serbian demand ?? That sounds very silly because Serbia is not an worldpower and needs Eu more than EU needs Serbia. You cannot isolate Bosnia since Bosnia would also enter EU. Nato and EU will not accept any problems coming from ''republica srpska'' and if there were problems it would solve them very fast.
The question is how long is Serbia ready to be out of Eu for the sake of somthing it cannot get ?? How many countrys will pass Serbia in EU integration before Serbia realises that there is no way without EU ?? Do you people wrelly belive that Russia and China is the right way to go ??
But all that I'am saying now is more or less rubish since both me and you Zoran knowes that Serbia in the end of the day will recognize Kosovo to enter EU in right time before other countrys pass Serbia. One reason is because in that right time Kosovo will function as an country without supervised independence and will act reciprocity towayds Serbia. The other thing is because by that time Kosovo will have an army as all other countrys and wil control N.Kosovo and the border to Serbia. Serbia by that time will know that Kosovo is a lost battle forever.
The main goal for Kosovo is to become and UN member. The main goal for Serbia isd to become and EU member. Both will get what they want. Eu will not stop to exist in 8 years as many serbs predicted yesterday in this forum :)
It was a very stupid move by those Germans. I always thought Germans were smarter than that. If they intend to ask Serbia to recognize an Albanian Kosovo to join the EU, by stating it now, they lost their upper hand. This give plenty of time for Serbia and Serbia's supporters to counter Germany's argument. Big mistake. The fact is that if Serbia will ever recognize an Albanian Kosovo, it will be a part of what it is today and it will be after the Albanians come to their senses and start negotiating instead of demanding things "as if" the Albanians have enough power and authority to do so. One must earn authority and so far the Albanians and Kosovo have earned nothing, not even the money they've stolen.
Nope! No way to force Serbia to recognize Kosova. Serbia is too strong! Except the USA/NATO forced Serbia OUT of Kosova. Except for the USA overthrowing the Serbian government of Milosevic by funding Otpor and supporting opposition groups. Except for making the Serbians hand over each and every war criminal right up until Mladic! I thought Mladic was a national hero? I guess not.
So, you can take Serbias word, or you can recognize and acknowledge the facts on the ground as they've been unfolding since 1999.
Well, it sounds like some Germans got ahead of themselves. I hope they will eventually learn to leave Serbia alone before they get their backsides kicked again.
Recognition of "Kosova" will not happen and if this is a condition some will demand then it just means Serbia will not join the EU along with BiH and KiM. It seems many Serbians are quite happy with that arrangement.
I'm glad progress is being made towards settling everyday issues in these negotiations. I do expect Serbia to recognise "Kosova" documents and I don't see it out of scope of more than autonomy, less than independence. The Hong Kong model has been proposed before and in that system Hong Kong is considered sovereign to China but the citizens there have their own passport. The Albanians must remember that for Serbia to accept "Kosova" documents then Pristina must also accept Serbian documents. So Serbians in KiM will be tied to Serbian structures while ethnic Albanians will have self-rule. It sounds like a good compromise to me.
More than autonomy, less than independence is self-fulfilling. It will bring peace to the region and I do hope truth and reconciliation gathers more steam. Finding the missing and stopping the hate is a great step forward. Of course we will always have the hate spreaders but I hope more will see through them and live peacefully.
It's all about the pre-accession funds...Serbia has asked Brussels to open the vallet for their agonizing economy...Brussels aka Berlin has raised the obligations for Belgrade...We have arrived to the point that many here in Italy have always thought ...the deal---MONEY FOR KOSOVO...NEXT MONTHS WILL BE INTERESTING...everything can happen !
Please don't get too hung up on a German Parliamentary group and what it says. No one can force anyone to recognise a nation. Hong Kong is certainly a good example of a way forward. However remember that this arrangement was agreed to last only 50 years after the colony's hand over to China. These arrangements may still change once this time is up. China needs Hong Kong and is using the former colony as a test bed for a wider roll out of democracy across the whole of China. Kosovo needs Serbia and its other neighbours to survive once the EU and other foreign backers have gone. Why can't every one in the Balkans realise that they have more in common than they think.
The real problems for serbs is the absence of a leader capable of create a path for the future, the today officials put themselves on the ease position of “don t lose” and whoever offer alternative compromises automatically is labeled “traitors”, the situation can be compared at of a pilot in a tempest who thinks that is only keep firm the direction and soon the weather will change… well, the Titanic commandant did not succeed… so is necessary have a true vision of the situation and do the correct commands, hiding in denials can be suicidal.
In these denials serbs customary try misunderstanding comparisons for justify their route thru their ever only wished final scene, the creation of the Great Serbia, such comparisons are inutiles because its only express dream not the correct understanding of the actuality, there are not possible “more than autonomy less than independence” drafting, this is only rhetoric for secure today position that cannot be drove to the desired end, the China/ Taiwan or the China/ Hong Kong scenario is far away from the Serbia problems, if one try put the question on a parallel comparison the only suitable is the ancient Persian empire, the Persian empire ruled itself and many neighbor nations BUT they had a superior culture and don’t imposed it upon their subjugated nations only general guidelines for cohesion, the former king was converted in a satrap, a local governor, Serbian instead ever wanted a landlord/ mujik relation and have not superior culture nor economy than his neighbors so maintain Yugoslavia turned a impossible dream and the Milosevic “clean up” of “Serbian lands” too, the today Jeremic´s strategy of use of diplomatic weapon instead milosevic´s open brutality is impossible succeed, world is being tired of Serbian naïve arrogance and delusional path, Russia understood the URSS time was over, Sebian need understand that Yugoslavia time ended too, serbians need the Israel correct approach of swap lands for peace and change its focus for internal reality and problems, Serbia needs compromise and not recreate the domino concept, immobility only will put neighbor on desperation and Kosovo was a very example of this, Serbia don’t have the reins of Balkans, jeremic and co must accept this bitter truth, don’t compromise means lose all.
Germans were wise on shake serbians for awakening but serbian themselves need do the job
"Nobody has asked Serbia to do so, nor will the country do that, because there is simply no way to force Serbia to do so," said he.
Be more honest please.Nobody has asked Serbia to recognize Kosovo DE JURE and nobody con force you to do that.But you were just been told yesterday by the Germans to recognize DE FACTO or no EU for Serbia.It means:Live and let live.Now how is Serbia going to force Germany and 21 other EU members to do something that they don't want to do?
"Nope! No way to force Serbia to recognize Kosova. Serbia is too strong!
(The Truth Chicago, 23 June 2011 16:48)
It's not about being'strong' or not. It's about a club that can that can decide on its own who they accept as new members. If this club invites somebody, nobody is forcing anyone. I never understood that some Serbs sthing that the EU needs Serbia. It's more the other way around. If Serbia wants to become an EU member, it has to fulfill all the conditions needed. They are clearly defined, and they don't include 'recognizing Kosovo'. Please have in mind that there are five EU member states that don't recognize a stated created by an UDI, and they probably will never do it until a mutual agreement has been found. One more thing: Without a mutual agreement, Kosovo will never become an UN member, and never an EU member.
This and other Political Problems in the Balkans,
and even beyond,
with regard to the Serbian and other Peoples,
will only be solved by War.
When all National Consciousnesses arises in THAT conflict,
then everybody will to their surprise see,
that TIME is an ILLUSION,
and History of - Past - Present - Future,
is in the NOW and HERE.
@Demi-It is easy to be smart and demanding while someone else is protecting your behind, regardless of how bad you are. Remembre, things can change very quickly. Lybia comes to mind. So, get of your high horse before you fall down on your head and hurt yourself.
It's not about being'strong' or not. It's about a club that can that can decide on its own who they accept as new members. If this club invites somebody, nobody is forcing anyone. I never understood that some Serbs sthing that the EU needs Serbia. It's more the other way around. If Serbia wants to become an EU member, it has to fulfill all the conditions needed. They are clearly defined, and they don't include 'recognizing Kosovo'. Please have in mind that there are five EU member states that don't recognize a stated created by an UDI, and they probably will never do it until a mutual agreement has been found. One more thing: Without a mutual agreement, Kosovo will never become an UN member, and never an EU member.
(Top, 23 June 2011 18:52)
I agree with some of what you say but you seem to be missing the point on one crucial area. The EU acts as a whole in setting up for Serbia to get into the EU. However, each individual state has to vote to a final approvement. Like Germany has said that means the govt of each state. Now the chances of Serbia convincing all 22 to vote in favor while Serbia is still trying to block Kosovo's admission, is eponentially slimmer than convincing the 5 to approve Kosovo. So if Serbia does not come into an agreement with Kosovo it too will never make it to the EU. So there is equally as much pressure if not more on Serbia to come to terms on Kosovo status that is acceptable to all parties. Once that is done there is no obstacle for Kosovo except Kosovo itself.
Kosovo will have to meet the same standards as everyone else, no free ride, unless Serbia keeps forcing the issue and the EU has to become creative and develop a special class for Kosovo. Kosovo has become an EU project and they are not going to say we embrace you Serbia eventhough you are causing so much grief.
At what point does one realize that he/she is speaking out of her/his asshole. In any case Kosova is winning even with moronic pocket thieves like Hashim Thaqi and co.
"But you were just been told yesterday by the Germans to recognize DE FACTO or no EU for Serbia.It means:Live and let live"
(Mark, 23 June 2011 18:33)
That's why there are these Belgrad-Pristina talks: About live and let live, the everyday issues. The results will be that Serbia will recognize Kosovo documents and number plates, for example, in exchange Pristina will stop playing silly games with "custom stamps" and confiscating Serbian number plates, trying to impose custom dutys for Serbs 'importing'(haha) goods from Serbia, and things like that. Belgrade can say stilly that they don't recognize Kosovo, Kosovo can keep the illusion that it is an 'independent' state (recognized by less than 50% of the countries), and Germany will be happy that Serbia recognizes Kosovo 'de facto'
Nobody in Serbia will give up on EU for somthing it can never get (Kosovo). I thing the germans made it very clear to you yesterday and told you somthing we already knew for a while. But ofcourse Serbia can allways stay in the same level as Bosnia and Kosovo and let countrys like Macedonia,Albania and Croatia pass them in every aspect such as economy,social life and Eu integrartion.
By your logic Serbia will isolate ut self together with Bosnia and Kosovo and Eu would give in on serbian demand ?? That sounds very silly because Serbia is not an worldpower and needs Eu more than EU needs Serbia. You cannot isolate Bosnia since Bosnia would also enter EU. Nato and EU will not accept any problems coming from ''republica srpska'' and if there were problems it would solve them very fast.
The question is how long is Serbia ready to be out of Eu for the sake of somthing it cannot get ?? How many countrys will pass Serbia in EU integration before Serbia realises that there is no way without EU ?? Do you people wrelly belive that Russia and China is the right way to go ??
But all that I'am saying now is more or less rubish since both me and you Zoran knowes that Serbia in the end of the day will recognize Kosovo to enter EU in right time before other countrys pass Serbia. One reason is because in that right time Kosovo will function as an country without supervised independence and will act reciprocity towayds Serbia. The other thing is because by that time Kosovo will have an army as all other countrys and wil control N.Kosovo and the border to Serbia. Serbia by that time will know that Kosovo is a lost battle forever.
The main goal for Kosovo is to become and UN member. The main goal for Serbia isd to become and EU member. Both will get what they want. Eu will not stop to exist in 8 years as many serbs predicted yesterday in this forum :)
Well, it sounds like some Germans got ahead of themselves. I hope they will eventually learn to leave Serbia alone before they get their backsides kicked again.
Recognition of "Kosova" will not happen and if this is a condition some will demand then it just means Serbia will not join the EU along with BiH and KiM. It seems many Serbians are quite happy with that arrangement.
I'm glad progress is being made towards settling everyday issues in these negotiations. I do expect Serbia to recognise "Kosova" documents and I don't see it out of scope of more than autonomy, less than independence. The Hong Kong model has been proposed before and in that system Hong Kong is considered sovereign to China but the citizens there have their own passport. The Albanians must remember that for Serbia to accept "Kosova" documents then Pristina must also accept Serbian documents. So Serbians in KiM will be tied to Serbian structures while ethnic Albanians will have self-rule. It sounds like a good compromise to me.
More than autonomy, less than independence is self-fulfilling. It will bring peace to the region and I do hope truth and reconciliation gathers more steam. Finding the missing and stopping the hate is a great step forward. Of course we will always have the hate spreaders but I hope more will see through them and live peacefully.
Please don't get too hung up on a German Parliamentary group and what it says. No one can force anyone to recognise a nation. Hong Kong is certainly a good example of a way forward. However remember that this arrangement was agreed to last only 50 years after the colony's hand over to China. These arrangements may still change once this time is up. China needs Hong Kong and is using the former colony as a test bed for a wider roll out of democracy across the whole of China. Kosovo needs Serbia and its other neighbours to survive once the EU and other foreign backers have gone. Why can't every one in the Balkans realise that they have more in common than they think.
It was a very stupid move by those Germans. I always thought Germans were smarter than that. If they intend to ask Serbia to recognize an Albanian Kosovo to join the EU, by stating it now, they lost their upper hand. This give plenty of time for Serbia and Serbia's supporters to counter Germany's argument. Big mistake. The fact is that if Serbia will ever recognize an Albanian Kosovo, it will be a part of what it is today and it will be after the Albanians come to their senses and start negotiating instead of demanding things "as if" the Albanians have enough power and authority to do so. One must earn authority and so far the Albanians and Kosovo have earned nothing, not even the money they've stolen.
By your logic Serbia will isolate ut self together with Bosnia and Kosovo and Eu would give in on serbian demand ?? That sounds very silly because Serbia is not an worldpower and needs Eu more than EU needs Serbia.
--
Demi, please come out of your black and white world. Serbia doesn't have to become an EU member to trade with it. We have a free trade agreement and we have visa free travel. We can work on improving our relations with the EU but that doesn't mean we have to become a member. As bganon mentioned yesterday, if not recognising "Kosova" means staying in the EU waiting room indefinitely then so be it.
As we once again move into a multi-polar world and as power and influence shifts eastwards then so will Serbia naturally. Most of our allies and friends are there so it puts us in a stronger position. It doesn't have to be one or the other, east or west, as I have always maintained that the balance needs to be right, east and west. We can do business with both but recognising "Kosova" is out of the question.
Nope! No way to force Serbia to recognize Kosova. Serbia is too strong! Except the USA/NATO forced Serbia OUT of Kosova. Except for the USA overthrowing the Serbian government of Milosevic by funding Otpor and supporting opposition groups. Except for making the Serbians hand over each and every war criminal right up until Mladic! I thought Mladic was a national hero? I guess not.
So, you can take Serbias word, or you can recognize and acknowledge the facts on the ground as they've been unfolding since 1999.
This and other Political Problems in the Balkans,
and even beyond,
with regard to the Serbian and other Peoples,
will only be solved by War.
When all National Consciousnesses arises in THAT conflict,
then everybody will to their surprise see,
that TIME is an ILLUSION,
and History of - Past - Present - Future,
is in the NOW and HERE.
@Demi-It is easy to be smart and demanding while someone else is protecting your behind, regardless of how bad you are. Remembre, things can change very quickly. Lybia comes to mind. So, get of your high horse before you fall down on your head and hurt yourself.
The real problems for serbs is the absence of a leader capable of create a path for the future, the today officials put themselves on the ease position of “don t lose” and whoever offer alternative compromises automatically is labeled “traitors”, the situation can be compared at of a pilot in a tempest who thinks that is only keep firm the direction and soon the weather will change… well, the Titanic commandant did not succeed… so is necessary have a true vision of the situation and do the correct commands, hiding in denials can be suicidal.
In these denials serbs customary try misunderstanding comparisons for justify their route thru their ever only wished final scene, the creation of the Great Serbia, such comparisons are inutiles because its only express dream not the correct understanding of the actuality, there are not possible “more than autonomy less than independence” drafting, this is only rhetoric for secure today position that cannot be drove to the desired end, the China/ Taiwan or the China/ Hong Kong scenario is far away from the Serbia problems, if one try put the question on a parallel comparison the only suitable is the ancient Persian empire, the Persian empire ruled itself and many neighbor nations BUT they had a superior culture and don’t imposed it upon their subjugated nations only general guidelines for cohesion, the former king was converted in a satrap, a local governor, Serbian instead ever wanted a landlord/ mujik relation and have not superior culture nor economy than his neighbors so maintain Yugoslavia turned a impossible dream and the Milosevic “clean up” of “Serbian lands” too, the today Jeremic´s strategy of use of diplomatic weapon instead milosevic´s open brutality is impossible succeed, world is being tired of Serbian naïve arrogance and delusional path, Russia understood the URSS time was over, Sebian need understand that Yugoslavia time ended too, serbians need the Israel correct approach of swap lands for peace and change its focus for internal reality and problems, Serbia needs compromise and not recreate the domino concept, immobility only will put neighbor on desperation and Kosovo was a very example of this, Serbia don’t have the reins of Balkans, jeremic and co must accept this bitter truth, don’t compromise means lose all.
Germans were wise on shake serbians for awakening but serbian themselves need do the job
"Nope! No way to force Serbia to recognize Kosova. Serbia is too strong!
(The Truth Chicago, 23 June 2011 16:48)
It's not about being'strong' or not. It's about a club that can that can decide on its own who they accept as new members. If this club invites somebody, nobody is forcing anyone. I never understood that some Serbs sthing that the EU needs Serbia. It's more the other way around. If Serbia wants to become an EU member, it has to fulfill all the conditions needed. They are clearly defined, and they don't include 'recognizing Kosovo'. Please have in mind that there are five EU member states that don't recognize a stated created by an UDI, and they probably will never do it until a mutual agreement has been found. One more thing: Without a mutual agreement, Kosovo will never become an UN member, and never an EU member.
It's all about the pre-accession funds...Serbia has asked Brussels to open the vallet for their agonizing economy...Brussels aka Berlin has raised the obligations for Belgrade...We have arrived to the point that many here in Italy have always thought ...the deal---MONEY FOR KOSOVO...NEXT MONTHS WILL BE INTERESTING...everything can happen !
"Nobody has asked Serbia to do so, nor will the country do that, because there is simply no way to force Serbia to do so," said he.
Be more honest please.Nobody has asked Serbia to recognize Kosovo DE JURE and nobody con force you to do that.But you were just been told yesterday by the Germans to recognize DE FACTO or no EU for Serbia.It means:Live and let live.Now how is Serbia going to force Germany and 21 other EU members to do something that they don't want to do?
At what point does one realize that he/she is speaking out of her/his asshole. In any case Kosova is winning even with moronic pocket thieves like Hashim Thaqi and co.
It's not about being'strong' or not. It's about a club that can that can decide on its own who they accept as new members. If this club invites somebody, nobody is forcing anyone. I never understood that some Serbs sthing that the EU needs Serbia. It's more the other way around. If Serbia wants to become an EU member, it has to fulfill all the conditions needed. They are clearly defined, and they don't include 'recognizing Kosovo'. Please have in mind that there are five EU member states that don't recognize a stated created by an UDI, and they probably will never do it until a mutual agreement has been found. One more thing: Without a mutual agreement, Kosovo will never become an UN member, and never an EU member.
(Top, 23 June 2011 18:52)
I agree with some of what you say but you seem to be missing the point on one crucial area. The EU acts as a whole in setting up for Serbia to get into the EU. However, each individual state has to vote to a final approvement. Like Germany has said that means the govt of each state. Now the chances of Serbia convincing all 22 to vote in favor while Serbia is still trying to block Kosovo's admission, is eponentially slimmer than convincing the 5 to approve Kosovo. So if Serbia does not come into an agreement with Kosovo it too will never make it to the EU. So there is equally as much pressure if not more on Serbia to come to terms on Kosovo status that is acceptable to all parties. Once that is done there is no obstacle for Kosovo except Kosovo itself.
Kosovo will have to meet the same standards as everyone else, no free ride, unless Serbia keeps forcing the issue and the EU has to become creative and develop a special class for Kosovo. Kosovo has become an EU project and they are not going to say we embrace you Serbia eventhough you are causing so much grief.
"But you were just been told yesterday by the Germans to recognize DE FACTO or no EU for Serbia.It means:Live and let live"
(Mark, 23 June 2011 18:33)
That's why there are these Belgrad-Pristina talks: About live and let live, the everyday issues. The results will be that Serbia will recognize Kosovo documents and number plates, for example, in exchange Pristina will stop playing silly games with "custom stamps" and confiscating Serbian number plates, trying to impose custom dutys for Serbs 'importing'(haha) goods from Serbia, and things like that. Belgrade can say stilly that they don't recognize Kosovo, Kosovo can keep the illusion that it is an 'independent' state (recognized by less than 50% of the countries), and Germany will be happy that Serbia recognizes Kosovo 'de facto'
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