I would like to commend some of the Serb commentators such as bganon for their informative commentaries and excellent use of the English language.As an American I am very impressed with Serbs but especially so with the ones who understand that freedom is a priceless commodity.Human nature has self interest at its core and it is NOT environmental factors that hold a bigger sway over an individuals way of thinking.Adam Smith had a better understanding of human nature when he advocated my earlier point than Karl Marx had when he advocated the environmental factors.These opposing views need not always be exclusionary so many times you do come across individuals who do care about the wellbeing of society as a whole and not just their selfish interests but this usually happens much more often where a population is homogenous such as early century Germany and Scandinavia where neighbors feel a common kinship based on mutually shared customs and traditions.As to how any individual became rich in Milosevic's Serbia I think the answer is self evident.
Zoran whether it is part of human nature or not, it is certainly part of our environment - that is beyond dispute. Profit is good, the more profit the better. There is no end to this quest and the needs of society is secondary.
The fact is that man is influenced more by his environment than by his nature. This is confirmed by all the studies made into subjects connected to the nature vs nature debate - which is a very interesting topic in itself.
If environmental factors are more important in influencing behaviour then the greed innate in all of us (originally intended to give us a survival instinct, not warped into becoming so greedy as to deprive others of life) can be reset under a different philosophy that doesn't encourage and reward greed.
Of course, as always, I don't claim to live like a saint. I too search for profit, but that is to provide normal things in life very much in line with the average Belgrader.
Beko himself was a corrupt poltician (a minister of privatization in the last 2 or so years of Slobo's rules).
But, let's ignore that he is and was the very thing he criticizes - corrupt politician and businessman. He has basically admitted that he has financed illegally parties, yet there seem to be no responses from the government.
As to him saying he no longer paying parties. He's admitted to being a criminal, and he has before claimed he never financed aprties. So I'm going to say that based on his record he is lying. Also, given the nature of liars he might be playing semantics - "I didn't say I'm not giving money for political benefit, I said I'm not giving to parties - I didn't say anything about the politicians."
Our politicians behave within the norms governed by the current global mantra, just as Beko does.
(bganon, 22 June 2011 16:03)
--
There is no solution as it will always exist and is part of human nature. It is called greed and it exists in every system, be it socialism or capitalism. It can be reduced but not solved.
A solution Zoran to the many problems society faces which I mentioned - corruption, poverty, lack of fairness and lack of care for fellow man (or morality if you prefer).
Beko doesn't give a toss about these things - we are supposed to just follow him and curse our politicians without wondering why they behave like that in the first place.
Our politicians behave within the norms governed by the current global mantra, just as Beko does.
Its the very nature of capitalism itself thats the problem, and until we start asking the right questions, we don't have a chance of finding a solution.
(bganon, 22 June 2011 13:32)
--
A solution to what?
It is easy for Beko to hide behind half truths - by telling the truth about the role of corrupt politicians. And by not talking about how it is truly hard to tell (chicken and egg style) which came first - corrupt businessmen or corrupt officials.
In some way corrupt officials are a parasite on business, however, its a fact that business, by its very nature, could not care less about the ordinary man in the street. In some way it could be argued that many businesses are a parasite on the public.
The only priority of greedy men such as Beko is to use all means to make a high a profit as possible. There is no morality, there is no care for those who are not rich, there is no care for those without influence.
Just one example is tax avoidance, whilst the general public is expected to pay all taxes that (in theory at least) should go to providing everybody with better services and public investment, men like Beko are opening their businesses in the cayman islands, funelling their tax accounts elsewhere, and placing profits made from Serbia in foreign bank accounts. They are directly depriving the Serbian taxpayer of crucial money that could go towards improving services for everybody. God knows we need it.
This is the practice of all businesses that can afford it, but it is just the tip of the iceberg. 'Businessmen' know that to make the extraordinary profits that capitalism demands that there are many more semi legal or illegal ways of making money.
And in a way its not really their fault. Its the logical conclusion of seeking higher and higher returns, which is the end goal of capitalism.
Politicians (Sanader for example) want a part of this action too and business is happy to reward this greed when it ensures higher profits in the medium term.
Beko knows this but he's happy to moan and play dumb.
This is it my friends, the reason why we the public receive these mixed messages and wonder who's side to be on, the reason why journalists invariably don't ask the right questions, the reason why even honest (ish) politicians lose debates against men like Beko.
Its the very nature of capitalism itself thats the problem, and until we start asking the right questions, we don't have a chance of finding a solution.
It is easy for Beko to hide behind half truths - by telling the truth about the role of corrupt politicians. And by not talking about how it is truly hard to tell (chicken and egg style) which came first - corrupt businessmen or corrupt officials.
In some way corrupt officials are a parasite on business, however, its a fact that business, by its very nature, could not care less about the ordinary man in the street. In some way it could be argued that many businesses are a parasite on the public.
The only priority of greedy men such as Beko is to use all means to make a high a profit as possible. There is no morality, there is no care for those who are not rich, there is no care for those without influence.
Just one example is tax avoidance, whilst the general public is expected to pay all taxes that (in theory at least) should go to providing everybody with better services and public investment, men like Beko are opening their businesses in the cayman islands, funelling their tax accounts elsewhere, and placing profits made from Serbia in foreign bank accounts. They are directly depriving the Serbian taxpayer of crucial money that could go towards improving services for everybody. God knows we need it.
This is the practice of all businesses that can afford it, but it is just the tip of the iceberg. 'Businessmen' know that to make the extraordinary profits that capitalism demands that there are many more semi legal or illegal ways of making money.
And in a way its not really their fault. Its the logical conclusion of seeking higher and higher returns, which is the end goal of capitalism.
Politicians (Sanader for example) want a part of this action too and business is happy to reward this greed when it ensures higher profits in the medium term.
Beko knows this but he's happy to moan and play dumb.
This is it my friends, the reason why we the public receive these mixed messages and wonder who's side to be on, the reason why journalists invariably don't ask the right questions, the reason why even honest (ish) politicians lose debates against men like Beko.
Its the very nature of capitalism itself thats the problem, and until we start asking the right questions, we don't have a chance of finding a solution.
I would like to commend some of the Serb commentators such as bganon for their informative commentaries and excellent use of the English language.As an American I am very impressed with Serbs but especially so with the ones who understand that freedom is a priceless commodity.Human nature has self interest at its core and it is NOT environmental factors that hold a bigger sway over an individuals way of thinking.Adam Smith had a better understanding of human nature when he advocated my earlier point than Karl Marx had when he advocated the environmental factors.These opposing views need not always be exclusionary so many times you do come across individuals who do care about the wellbeing of society as a whole and not just their selfish interests but this usually happens much more often where a population is homogenous such as early century Germany and Scandinavia where neighbors feel a common kinship based on mutually shared customs and traditions.As to how any individual became rich in Milosevic's Serbia I think the answer is self evident.
Zoran whether it is part of human nature or not, it is certainly part of our environment - that is beyond dispute. Profit is good, the more profit the better. There is no end to this quest and the needs of society is secondary.
The fact is that man is influenced more by his environment than by his nature. This is confirmed by all the studies made into subjects connected to the nature vs nature debate - which is a very interesting topic in itself.
If environmental factors are more important in influencing behaviour then the greed innate in all of us (originally intended to give us a survival instinct, not warped into becoming so greedy as to deprive others of life) can be reset under a different philosophy that doesn't encourage and reward greed.
Of course, as always, I don't claim to live like a saint. I too search for profit, but that is to provide normal things in life very much in line with the average Belgrader.
A solution Zoran to the many problems society faces which I mentioned - corruption, poverty, lack of fairness and lack of care for fellow man (or morality if you prefer).
Beko doesn't give a toss about these things - we are supposed to just follow him and curse our politicians without wondering why they behave like that in the first place.
Our politicians behave within the norms governed by the current global mantra, just as Beko does.
Beko himself was a corrupt poltician (a minister of privatization in the last 2 or so years of Slobo's rules).
But, let's ignore that he is and was the very thing he criticizes - corrupt politician and businessman. He has basically admitted that he has financed illegally parties, yet there seem to be no responses from the government.
As to him saying he no longer paying parties. He's admitted to being a criminal, and he has before claimed he never financed aprties. So I'm going to say that based on his record he is lying. Also, given the nature of liars he might be playing semantics - "I didn't say I'm not giving money for political benefit, I said I'm not giving to parties - I didn't say anything about the politicians."
Its the very nature of capitalism itself thats the problem, and until we start asking the right questions, we don't have a chance of finding a solution.
(bganon, 22 June 2011 13:32)
--
A solution to what?
Our politicians behave within the norms governed by the current global mantra, just as Beko does.
(bganon, 22 June 2011 16:03)
--
There is no solution as it will always exist and is part of human nature. It is called greed and it exists in every system, be it socialism or capitalism. It can be reduced but not solved.
It is easy for Beko to hide behind half truths - by telling the truth about the role of corrupt politicians. And by not talking about how it is truly hard to tell (chicken and egg style) which came first - corrupt businessmen or corrupt officials.
In some way corrupt officials are a parasite on business, however, its a fact that business, by its very nature, could not care less about the ordinary man in the street. In some way it could be argued that many businesses are a parasite on the public.
The only priority of greedy men such as Beko is to use all means to make a high a profit as possible. There is no morality, there is no care for those who are not rich, there is no care for those without influence.
Just one example is tax avoidance, whilst the general public is expected to pay all taxes that (in theory at least) should go to providing everybody with better services and public investment, men like Beko are opening their businesses in the cayman islands, funelling their tax accounts elsewhere, and placing profits made from Serbia in foreign bank accounts. They are directly depriving the Serbian taxpayer of crucial money that could go towards improving services for everybody. God knows we need it.
This is the practice of all businesses that can afford it, but it is just the tip of the iceberg. 'Businessmen' know that to make the extraordinary profits that capitalism demands that there are many more semi legal or illegal ways of making money.
And in a way its not really their fault. Its the logical conclusion of seeking higher and higher returns, which is the end goal of capitalism.
Politicians (Sanader for example) want a part of this action too and business is happy to reward this greed when it ensures higher profits in the medium term.
Beko knows this but he's happy to moan and play dumb.
This is it my friends, the reason why we the public receive these mixed messages and wonder who's side to be on, the reason why journalists invariably don't ask the right questions, the reason why even honest (ish) politicians lose debates against men like Beko.
Its the very nature of capitalism itself thats the problem, and until we start asking the right questions, we don't have a chance of finding a solution.
Its the very nature of capitalism itself thats the problem, and until we start asking the right questions, we don't have a chance of finding a solution.
(bganon, 22 June 2011 13:32)
--
A solution to what?
A solution Zoran to the many problems society faces which I mentioned - corruption, poverty, lack of fairness and lack of care for fellow man (or morality if you prefer).
Beko doesn't give a toss about these things - we are supposed to just follow him and curse our politicians without wondering why they behave like that in the first place.
Our politicians behave within the norms governed by the current global mantra, just as Beko does.
Our politicians behave within the norms governed by the current global mantra, just as Beko does.
(bganon, 22 June 2011 16:03)
--
There is no solution as it will always exist and is part of human nature. It is called greed and it exists in every system, be it socialism or capitalism. It can be reduced but not solved.
Zoran whether it is part of human nature or not, it is certainly part of our environment - that is beyond dispute. Profit is good, the more profit the better. There is no end to this quest and the needs of society is secondary.
The fact is that man is influenced more by his environment than by his nature. This is confirmed by all the studies made into subjects connected to the nature vs nature debate - which is a very interesting topic in itself.
If environmental factors are more important in influencing behaviour then the greed innate in all of us (originally intended to give us a survival instinct, not warped into becoming so greedy as to deprive others of life) can be reset under a different philosophy that doesn't encourage and reward greed.
Of course, as always, I don't claim to live like a saint. I too search for profit, but that is to provide normal things in life very much in line with the average Belgrader.
Beko himself was a corrupt poltician (a minister of privatization in the last 2 or so years of Slobo's rules).
But, let's ignore that he is and was the very thing he criticizes - corrupt politician and businessman. He has basically admitted that he has financed illegally parties, yet there seem to be no responses from the government.
As to him saying he no longer paying parties. He's admitted to being a criminal, and he has before claimed he never financed aprties. So I'm going to say that based on his record he is lying. Also, given the nature of liars he might be playing semantics - "I didn't say I'm not giving money for political benefit, I said I'm not giving to parties - I didn't say anything about the politicians."
I would like to commend some of the Serb commentators such as bganon for their informative commentaries and excellent use of the English language.As an American I am very impressed with Serbs but especially so with the ones who understand that freedom is a priceless commodity.Human nature has self interest at its core and it is NOT environmental factors that hold a bigger sway over an individuals way of thinking.Adam Smith had a better understanding of human nature when he advocated my earlier point than Karl Marx had when he advocated the environmental factors.These opposing views need not always be exclusionary so many times you do come across individuals who do care about the wellbeing of society as a whole and not just their selfish interests but this usually happens much more often where a population is homogenous such as early century Germany and Scandinavia where neighbors feel a common kinship based on mutually shared customs and traditions.As to how any individual became rich in Milosevic's Serbia I think the answer is self evident.
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