Palestine has a fundamental right to exist too !
Geneva convention and international law has to be respected !
Occupation has to come to an end as soon as possible and all colonies have to be dismantled.
Blockade of Gaza has to end ASAP !
Refugees have the right to return to their country.
All war criminals have to stand trials in front of independent international courts !
If you wish to impose multi-cultural (multi-religious)societies elsewhere you should ask Israel for the same thing.
Which means NO to Israel as a "jewish state" and NO to the actual apartheid regime !
YES to Israel as a real democratic and multi-ethnic state.
Returned the Sinai to Egypt lot of centimeters there.
Returned Gaza.
Returned Southern Lebanon.
Not very good at keeping land are they?
(mark, 16 June 2011 19:05)
You obviously didn't read properly what I wrote. I never said that Israel doesn't give up land, I said that Israel doesn't "WANT" to give up land. Not even when they can finally end this dispute which has been ongoing since the 1940s. Next time I suggest you read more carefully.
The problem with Israel is that it wants as much land as it can and it doesn't want to give-up a single square centimetre.
Returned the Sinai to Egypt lot of centimeters there.
Returned Gaza.
Returned Southern Lebanon.
Not very good at keeping land are they?
Dont know why people are pooing in their undies as you put it,in the Arab Middle East one dictator goes another one comes.
Ian UK this is from Mark UK..
After 1948, since the old walled city in its entirety was to the east of the armistice line, Jordan was able to take control of all the holy places therein, and contrary to the terms of the armistice agreement, Israelis were denied access to Jewish holy sites, many of which were desecrated. 34 of the 35 synagogues in the Old City, including the Hurva and the Tiferet Yisrael Synagogue, were destroyed over the course of the next 19 years, either razed or used as stables and hen-houses. The Jewish Cemetery on the Mount of Olives was desecrated, with gravestones used to build roads and latrines.
Jordan allowed only very limited access to Christian holy sites.
During this period, the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque underwent major renovations.
In 1967, despite Israeli pleas that Jordan remain neutral during the Six-Day War, Jordanian forces attacked Israeli-held West Jerusalem on the war's second day. After hand to hand fighting between Israeli and Jordanian soldiers on the Temple Mount, the Israel Defense Force completely pushed the Jordanian, and Iraqi armies out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. On June 27, 1967, a few weeks after the war ended, Israel placed East Jerusalem under its jurisdiction.
Hence Jewish and Christian access to the holy sites inside the old walled city was restored, while the Temple Mount remained under the jurisdiction of an Islamic waqf.
Ian best if you only comment on things you understand, hope this has clarified everthing for you.
(mark, 16 June 2011 12:59)
No you have not clarified everything to me. That still doesn't explain why a new Palestinian state shouldn't have East Jerusalem as their capital, also it doesn't explain why Israel should control all of the city.
I believe that in the event of East Jerusalem becoming the capital of a new Palestinian state, there should be freedom of movement throughout the entire city.
All you have stated is that when the Palestinian lands were under Jordanian occupation there was restriction of movement in parts of Jerusalem and that whilst Jerusalem has been under Israeli occupation there is no longer restrictions with freedom of movement as such. That doesn't give Israel the right to administrate all of the city. Perhaps if West Jerusalem was the Israeli Capital and East Jerusalem was the Palestinian Capital then countries might recognise West Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a single country recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital, hence the reason why all embassies as located in Tel Aviv; the city which is internationally recognised as Israel's capital.
The problem with Israel is that it wants as much land as it can and it doesn't want to give-up a single square centimetre. This is why Israel is now pooing their undies due to the revolution in Egypt with Egypt becoming more pro-Palestinian again and with the Fatah-Hamas agreement, which will lead to them applying for UN membership (pre-1967 boarders) in September without Israel's approval.
If Palestine does achieve UN membership in September, I bet that Israel claims that the UN is anti-Semitic for giving Palestine a seat. I think I might go into William Hill and place a bet on it.
Ian UK this is from Mark UK..
After 1948, since the old walled city in its entirety was to the east of the armistice line, Jordan was able to take control of all the holy places therein, and contrary to the terms of the armistice agreement, Israelis were denied access to Jewish holy sites, many of which were desecrated. 34 of the 35 synagogues in the Old City, including the Hurva and the Tiferet Yisrael Synagogue, were destroyed over the course of the next 19 years, either razed or used as stables and hen-houses. The Jewish Cemetery on the Mount of Olives was desecrated, with gravestones used to build roads and latrines.
Jordan allowed only very limited access to Christian holy sites.
During this period, the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque underwent major renovations.
In 1967, despite Israeli pleas that Jordan remain neutral during the Six-Day War, Jordanian forces attacked Israeli-held West Jerusalem on the war's second day. After hand to hand fighting between Israeli and Jordanian soldiers on the Temple Mount, the Israel Defense Force completely pushed the Jordanian, and Iraqi armies out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. On June 27, 1967, a few weeks after the war ended, Israel placed East Jerusalem under its jurisdiction.
Hence Jewish and Christian access to the holy sites inside the old walled city was restored, while the Temple Mount remained under the jurisdiction of an Islamic waqf.
Ian best if you only comment on things you understand, hope this has clarified everthing for you.
There is a lot of truth in what you wrote,among the main Serb foes in there were a lot of them(Holbrooke,Clark,Albright,let`s not forget Tom Lantos who started this Kosovo thing,Elliott Engel,Elie Wiesel etc.) and of course much of their media(CNN especially).
At the same time Israel and the Israeli Jews are with us on this issue!
I thing we are being manipulated by each and everyone,that is why we need to learn from the Israeli Jews,acquire nuclear weapons like they did(through smuggling and intelligence work,build a knowledge economy,and do everything in our power to get an outlet to the sea which will make the future Serbian state REALLY independent openening up to it the main shipping lines to the markets of the future!)
For the last 20 years most Israelis and almost all americans of jewish decent have been stalwartly anti-serbian and have been instrumental in all the ill that has befallen our nation. Why they did this was simple and practical.It was a rewarding practice to be anti-serbian for many jewish people in the west. While Israelis were killing huge numbers of arab civilians and building walls to enclose millions of palestinians in what are basicly internment camps-powerful and influential jews in Washington, Tel Aviv and in the western media could point to the serbian bad guys and thier attrocities against the muslims and proclaim themselves to be fighting for muslims-while absurdley at the same time commiting more attrocities against muslims over a longer period of time than any other nation or group in the world.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm unbelievable rubbish,i dont understand how the moderators allow this clap trap to be printed B92 you are a disgrace.
The European Parliament, full of second class politicians who can not make it at home. Their votes over and over again prove this to be the case. European 'democracy' at its worst.
Has someone told them to ask why palestinan owners of many of the buildings in East Jerusalem are selling them to Jews via middle-men in Cyprus?
Believe it or not, this issue will place Serbia in a bit of a quandry. Israeli PM Netanyahu just wrapped up a tour of eastern europe to assure that certain states in that region will not vote in favour of the Palestinian state. His last stop was to warsaw. The word on the Arab street is that if Serbia does not recognize a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders, 20 arab states which have not recognized Kosovo so far will do so in short fashion.
On the other hand, Israel to its credit has not recognized Kosovo so far. This is very telling in that the americans have been able to influence, pressure or bribe so many distant and divergent nations into recognizing Kosovo and yet thier closest ally refuses to do so so-its indicative of the influence that Israel wields over the US government.
For the last 20 years most Israelis and almost all americans of jewish decent have been stalwartly anti-serbian and have been instrumental in all the ill that has befallen our nation. Why they did this was simple and practical.It was a rewarding practice to be anti-serbian for many jewish people in the west. While Israelis were killing huge numbers of arab civilians and building walls to enclose millions of palestinians in what are basicly internment camps-powerful and influential jews in Washington, Tel Aviv and in the western media could point to the serbian bad guys and thier attrocities against the muslims and proclaim themselves to be fighting for muslims-while absurdley at the same time commiting more attrocities against muslims over a longer period of time than any other nation or group in the world.
Although most Jewish folks in the west were feverishly anti serbian, the few jews who put the truth before practical political gains were great, great friends of Serbia. Quality over quantity. Interestingly this perplexing problem of whether or not to recognize Palestine statehood sheds insight into how many other nations must have grappled with the Kosovo issue.
As far as Israeli nuclear weapons are concerned in this matter its a non issue, as a matter of fact, if israel admits it has nuclear weapons the country opens up a dangerous new pandoras box as far as UN nuke watchdog groups are concerned.
I pray that the Palestinian people and the Israeli people find a solution and embark on the greatest road of all, the only path that matterS-the path of peace! I wish the same for Serbs and Albanians-FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.
Jerusalem is a city which is important to Christians, Jews and Muslims. Why should Israel have it all? East Jerusalem should be the capital of the New Palestinian state.
Bryan, you are absolutely correct. Israel is the land for the Hebrew people as given to them by God during Abraham's (Avram) time. God made a covenant with him that this land would be his, and that his descendants would number like the stars in the sky and the sand on a beach. The name "Palestinian" is a geographic appellation, and not a true ethnic group as they are Arabs which invaded the Holy Land. God allowed the Hebrews to clean the land of all the heathen people after they arrived in their birthright territory following the period of slavery in Egypt. The land known as Palestine is for the Jews, and any Christian who does not accept this needs to get their Bible out and educate themselves and not be sucked into the lies being spread by the Muslims and the non-religious Europeans and Americans which directly deny God's Law.
Why don't the US go into Israel and create a "so called" Palestine State" like they did to Serbia regarding Kosovo? Why you ask.....because they can't. Israel is a nuclear power and can't be bullied. Sorry Obama you lose....no Palestine state in Israel. Jerusalem is Israels holy land....just like Kosovo is to Serbia.
(Bryan, 15 June 2011 18:02) Why don't the US go into Israel and create a "so called" Palestine State" like they did to Serbia regarding Kosovo? Why you ask.....because they can't. Israel is a nuclear power and can't be bullied. Sorry Obama you lose....no Palestine state in Israel. Jerusalem is Israels holy land....just like Kosovo is to Serbia.
(Bryan, 15 June 2011 18:02)
Holy land if there is such think Bryan. Kosovo does not think Serbia should not exist in contrary they want to be able to move on.
I feel bad for Palestinians and they should be treat it fair, but Holy land is somehting people name no holy than any other land. Serbs originally are not from Balkans not to Say Albanians are or not just how does it become holy building churches and if there is more churches than its others holy land.
Biggest Holy church of orthodox religion is in Turkey go tell turks that you see how fast they will close the door in your face.
No way Jerusalem`s Old City goes to Muslims - as far it is reigned by Jews at least the tourists can feel safe - even in this Muslim Quarter (but not at night as we were warned and felt on our own skin). Muslims should go back where they came from - to desert - and all HIndus, Buddhists, Christians, Assyrians, seculars etc will be happy
We, Bryan, didn´t show up in this area with a document written by humans in order to justify land grab and genocide.
We have been here all along and we are the same Serbs today as we where yesterday. israeli jews on the other hand, like their tribal brethren s in the west, are 98% ashkenasim´s(or Khazars, a very discussed but an over all accepted fact in israel), Caucasians who converted to judaism en masse. The Palestinians however, stems from those jews we normally refer to, who converted to christianity and islam 2000 years ago. They have not moved an inch since then, are not going to no matter how many apartheid walls and phosphorous bombs they drop on them, and neither are we.
Why don't the US go into Israel and create a "so called" Palestine State" like they did to Serbia regarding Kosovo? Why you ask.....because they can't. Israel is a nuclear power and can't be bullied. Sorry Obama you lose....no Palestine state in Israel. Jerusalem is Israels holy land....just like Kosovo is to Serbia.
Why don't the US go into Israel and create a "so called" Palestine State" like they did to Serbia regarding Kosovo? Why you ask.....because they can't. Israel is a nuclear power and can't be bullied. Sorry Obama you lose....no Palestine state in Israel. Jerusalem is Israels holy land....just like Kosovo is to Serbia.
The problem with Israel is that it wants as much land as it can and it doesn't want to give-up a single square centimetre.
Returned the Sinai to Egypt lot of centimeters there.
Returned Gaza.
Returned Southern Lebanon.
Not very good at keeping land are they?
Dont know why people are pooing in their undies as you put it,in the Arab Middle East one dictator goes another one comes.
No way Jerusalem`s Old City goes to Muslims - as far it is reigned by Jews at least the tourists can feel safe - even in this Muslim Quarter (but not at night as we were warned and felt on our own skin). Muslims should go back where they came from - to desert - and all HIndus, Buddhists, Christians, Assyrians, seculars etc will be happy
We, Bryan, didn´t show up in this area with a document written by humans in order to justify land grab and genocide.
We have been here all along and we are the same Serbs today as we where yesterday. israeli jews on the other hand, like their tribal brethren s in the west, are 98% ashkenasim´s(or Khazars, a very discussed but an over all accepted fact in israel), Caucasians who converted to judaism en masse. The Palestinians however, stems from those jews we normally refer to, who converted to christianity and islam 2000 years ago. They have not moved an inch since then, are not going to no matter how many apartheid walls and phosphorous bombs they drop on them, and neither are we.
Bryan, you are absolutely correct. Israel is the land for the Hebrew people as given to them by God during Abraham's (Avram) time. God made a covenant with him that this land would be his, and that his descendants would number like the stars in the sky and the sand on a beach. The name "Palestinian" is a geographic appellation, and not a true ethnic group as they are Arabs which invaded the Holy Land. God allowed the Hebrews to clean the land of all the heathen people after they arrived in their birthright territory following the period of slavery in Egypt. The land known as Palestine is for the Jews, and any Christian who does not accept this needs to get their Bible out and educate themselves and not be sucked into the lies being spread by the Muslims and the non-religious Europeans and Americans which directly deny God's Law.
For the last 20 years most Israelis and almost all americans of jewish decent have been stalwartly anti-serbian and have been instrumental in all the ill that has befallen our nation. Why they did this was simple and practical.It was a rewarding practice to be anti-serbian for many jewish people in the west. While Israelis were killing huge numbers of arab civilians and building walls to enclose millions of palestinians in what are basicly internment camps-powerful and influential jews in Washington, Tel Aviv and in the western media could point to the serbian bad guys and thier attrocities against the muslims and proclaim themselves to be fighting for muslims-while absurdley at the same time commiting more attrocities against muslims over a longer period of time than any other nation or group in the world.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm unbelievable rubbish,i dont understand how the moderators allow this clap trap to be printed B92 you are a disgrace.
Jerusalem is a city which is important to Christians, Jews and Muslims. Why should Israel have it all? East Jerusalem should be the capital of the New Palestinian state.
Ian UK this is from Mark UK..
After 1948, since the old walled city in its entirety was to the east of the armistice line, Jordan was able to take control of all the holy places therein, and contrary to the terms of the armistice agreement, Israelis were denied access to Jewish holy sites, many of which were desecrated. 34 of the 35 synagogues in the Old City, including the Hurva and the Tiferet Yisrael Synagogue, were destroyed over the course of the next 19 years, either razed or used as stables and hen-houses. The Jewish Cemetery on the Mount of Olives was desecrated, with gravestones used to build roads and latrines.
Jordan allowed only very limited access to Christian holy sites.
During this period, the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque underwent major renovations.
In 1967, despite Israeli pleas that Jordan remain neutral during the Six-Day War, Jordanian forces attacked Israeli-held West Jerusalem on the war's second day. After hand to hand fighting between Israeli and Jordanian soldiers on the Temple Mount, the Israel Defense Force completely pushed the Jordanian, and Iraqi armies out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. On June 27, 1967, a few weeks after the war ended, Israel placed East Jerusalem under its jurisdiction.
Hence Jewish and Christian access to the holy sites inside the old walled city was restored, while the Temple Mount remained under the jurisdiction of an Islamic waqf.
Ian best if you only comment on things you understand, hope this has clarified everthing for you.
Palestine has a fundamental right to exist too !
Geneva convention and international law has to be respected !
Occupation has to come to an end as soon as possible and all colonies have to be dismantled.
Blockade of Gaza has to end ASAP !
Refugees have the right to return to their country.
All war criminals have to stand trials in front of independent international courts !
If you wish to impose multi-cultural (multi-religious)societies elsewhere you should ask Israel for the same thing.
Which means NO to Israel as a "jewish state" and NO to the actual apartheid regime !
YES to Israel as a real democratic and multi-ethnic state.
Why don't the US go into Israel and create a "so called" Palestine State" like they did to Serbia regarding Kosovo? Why you ask.....because they can't. Israel is a nuclear power and can't be bullied. Sorry Obama you lose....no Palestine state in Israel. Jerusalem is Israels holy land....just like Kosovo is to Serbia.
(Bryan, 15 June 2011 18:02) Why don't the US go into Israel and create a "so called" Palestine State" like they did to Serbia regarding Kosovo? Why you ask.....because they can't. Israel is a nuclear power and can't be bullied. Sorry Obama you lose....no Palestine state in Israel. Jerusalem is Israels holy land....just like Kosovo is to Serbia.
(Bryan, 15 June 2011 18:02)
Holy land if there is such think Bryan. Kosovo does not think Serbia should not exist in contrary they want to be able to move on.
I feel bad for Palestinians and they should be treat it fair, but Holy land is somehting people name no holy than any other land. Serbs originally are not from Balkans not to Say Albanians are or not just how does it become holy building churches and if there is more churches than its others holy land.
Biggest Holy church of orthodox religion is in Turkey go tell turks that you see how fast they will close the door in your face.
Ian UK this is from Mark UK..
After 1948, since the old walled city in its entirety was to the east of the armistice line, Jordan was able to take control of all the holy places therein, and contrary to the terms of the armistice agreement, Israelis were denied access to Jewish holy sites, many of which were desecrated. 34 of the 35 synagogues in the Old City, including the Hurva and the Tiferet Yisrael Synagogue, were destroyed over the course of the next 19 years, either razed or used as stables and hen-houses. The Jewish Cemetery on the Mount of Olives was desecrated, with gravestones used to build roads and latrines.
Jordan allowed only very limited access to Christian holy sites.
During this period, the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque underwent major renovations.
In 1967, despite Israeli pleas that Jordan remain neutral during the Six-Day War, Jordanian forces attacked Israeli-held West Jerusalem on the war's second day. After hand to hand fighting between Israeli and Jordanian soldiers on the Temple Mount, the Israel Defense Force completely pushed the Jordanian, and Iraqi armies out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. On June 27, 1967, a few weeks after the war ended, Israel placed East Jerusalem under its jurisdiction.
Hence Jewish and Christian access to the holy sites inside the old walled city was restored, while the Temple Mount remained under the jurisdiction of an Islamic waqf.
Ian best if you only comment on things you understand, hope this has clarified everthing for you.
(mark, 16 June 2011 12:59)
No you have not clarified everything to me. That still doesn't explain why a new Palestinian state shouldn't have East Jerusalem as their capital, also it doesn't explain why Israel should control all of the city.
I believe that in the event of East Jerusalem becoming the capital of a new Palestinian state, there should be freedom of movement throughout the entire city.
All you have stated is that when the Palestinian lands were under Jordanian occupation there was restriction of movement in parts of Jerusalem and that whilst Jerusalem has been under Israeli occupation there is no longer restrictions with freedom of movement as such. That doesn't give Israel the right to administrate all of the city. Perhaps if West Jerusalem was the Israeli Capital and East Jerusalem was the Palestinian Capital then countries might recognise West Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a single country recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital, hence the reason why all embassies as located in Tel Aviv; the city which is internationally recognised as Israel's capital.
The problem with Israel is that it wants as much land as it can and it doesn't want to give-up a single square centimetre. This is why Israel is now pooing their undies due to the revolution in Egypt with Egypt becoming more pro-Palestinian again and with the Fatah-Hamas agreement, which will lead to them applying for UN membership (pre-1967 boarders) in September without Israel's approval.
If Palestine does achieve UN membership in September, I bet that Israel claims that the UN is anti-Semitic for giving Palestine a seat. I think I might go into William Hill and place a bet on it.
The European Parliament, full of second class politicians who can not make it at home. Their votes over and over again prove this to be the case. European 'democracy' at its worst.
Has someone told them to ask why palestinan owners of many of the buildings in East Jerusalem are selling them to Jews via middle-men in Cyprus?
Believe it or not, this issue will place Serbia in a bit of a quandry. Israeli PM Netanyahu just wrapped up a tour of eastern europe to assure that certain states in that region will not vote in favour of the Palestinian state. His last stop was to warsaw. The word on the Arab street is that if Serbia does not recognize a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders, 20 arab states which have not recognized Kosovo so far will do so in short fashion.
On the other hand, Israel to its credit has not recognized Kosovo so far. This is very telling in that the americans have been able to influence, pressure or bribe so many distant and divergent nations into recognizing Kosovo and yet thier closest ally refuses to do so so-its indicative of the influence that Israel wields over the US government.
For the last 20 years most Israelis and almost all americans of jewish decent have been stalwartly anti-serbian and have been instrumental in all the ill that has befallen our nation. Why they did this was simple and practical.It was a rewarding practice to be anti-serbian for many jewish people in the west. While Israelis were killing huge numbers of arab civilians and building walls to enclose millions of palestinians in what are basicly internment camps-powerful and influential jews in Washington, Tel Aviv and in the western media could point to the serbian bad guys and thier attrocities against the muslims and proclaim themselves to be fighting for muslims-while absurdley at the same time commiting more attrocities against muslims over a longer period of time than any other nation or group in the world.
Although most Jewish folks in the west were feverishly anti serbian, the few jews who put the truth before practical political gains were great, great friends of Serbia. Quality over quantity. Interestingly this perplexing problem of whether or not to recognize Palestine statehood sheds insight into how many other nations must have grappled with the Kosovo issue.
As far as Israeli nuclear weapons are concerned in this matter its a non issue, as a matter of fact, if israel admits it has nuclear weapons the country opens up a dangerous new pandoras box as far as UN nuke watchdog groups are concerned.
I pray that the Palestinian people and the Israeli people find a solution and embark on the greatest road of all, the only path that matterS-the path of peace! I wish the same for Serbs and Albanians-FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.
There is a lot of truth in what you wrote,among the main Serb foes in there were a lot of them(Holbrooke,Clark,Albright,let`s not forget Tom Lantos who started this Kosovo thing,Elliott Engel,Elie Wiesel etc.) and of course much of their media(CNN especially).
At the same time Israel and the Israeli Jews are with us on this issue!
I thing we are being manipulated by each and everyone,that is why we need to learn from the Israeli Jews,acquire nuclear weapons like they did(through smuggling and intelligence work,build a knowledge economy,and do everything in our power to get an outlet to the sea which will make the future Serbian state REALLY independent openening up to it the main shipping lines to the markets of the future!)
Returned the Sinai to Egypt lot of centimeters there.
Returned Gaza.
Returned Southern Lebanon.
Not very good at keeping land are they?
(mark, 16 June 2011 19:05)
You obviously didn't read properly what I wrote. I never said that Israel doesn't give up land, I said that Israel doesn't "WANT" to give up land. Not even when they can finally end this dispute which has been ongoing since the 1940s. Next time I suggest you read more carefully.
Why don't the US go into Israel and create a "so called" Palestine State" like they did to Serbia regarding Kosovo? Why you ask.....because they can't. Israel is a nuclear power and can't be bullied. Sorry Obama you lose....no Palestine state in Israel. Jerusalem is Israels holy land....just like Kosovo is to Serbia.
Why don't the US go into Israel and create a "so called" Palestine State" like they did to Serbia regarding Kosovo? Why you ask.....because they can't. Israel is a nuclear power and can't be bullied. Sorry Obama you lose....no Palestine state in Israel. Jerusalem is Israels holy land....just like Kosovo is to Serbia.
(Bryan, 15 June 2011 18:02) Why don't the US go into Israel and create a "so called" Palestine State" like they did to Serbia regarding Kosovo? Why you ask.....because they can't. Israel is a nuclear power and can't be bullied. Sorry Obama you lose....no Palestine state in Israel. Jerusalem is Israels holy land....just like Kosovo is to Serbia.
(Bryan, 15 June 2011 18:02)
Holy land if there is such think Bryan. Kosovo does not think Serbia should not exist in contrary they want to be able to move on.
I feel bad for Palestinians and they should be treat it fair, but Holy land is somehting people name no holy than any other land. Serbs originally are not from Balkans not to Say Albanians are or not just how does it become holy building churches and if there is more churches than its others holy land.
Biggest Holy church of orthodox religion is in Turkey go tell turks that you see how fast they will close the door in your face.
Jerusalem is a city which is important to Christians, Jews and Muslims. Why should Israel have it all? East Jerusalem should be the capital of the New Palestinian state.
Believe it or not, this issue will place Serbia in a bit of a quandry. Israeli PM Netanyahu just wrapped up a tour of eastern europe to assure that certain states in that region will not vote in favour of the Palestinian state. His last stop was to warsaw. The word on the Arab street is that if Serbia does not recognize a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders, 20 arab states which have not recognized Kosovo so far will do so in short fashion.
On the other hand, Israel to its credit has not recognized Kosovo so far. This is very telling in that the americans have been able to influence, pressure or bribe so many distant and divergent nations into recognizing Kosovo and yet thier closest ally refuses to do so so-its indicative of the influence that Israel wields over the US government.
For the last 20 years most Israelis and almost all americans of jewish decent have been stalwartly anti-serbian and have been instrumental in all the ill that has befallen our nation. Why they did this was simple and practical.It was a rewarding practice to be anti-serbian for many jewish people in the west. While Israelis were killing huge numbers of arab civilians and building walls to enclose millions of palestinians in what are basicly internment camps-powerful and influential jews in Washington, Tel Aviv and in the western media could point to the serbian bad guys and thier attrocities against the muslims and proclaim themselves to be fighting for muslims-while absurdley at the same time commiting more attrocities against muslims over a longer period of time than any other nation or group in the world.
Although most Jewish folks in the west were feverishly anti serbian, the few jews who put the truth before practical political gains were great, great friends of Serbia. Quality over quantity. Interestingly this perplexing problem of whether or not to recognize Palestine statehood sheds insight into how many other nations must have grappled with the Kosovo issue.
As far as Israeli nuclear weapons are concerned in this matter its a non issue, as a matter of fact, if israel admits it has nuclear weapons the country opens up a dangerous new pandoras box as far as UN nuke watchdog groups are concerned.
I pray that the Palestinian people and the Israeli people find a solution and embark on the greatest road of all, the only path that matterS-the path of peace! I wish the same for Serbs and Albanians-FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.
There is a lot of truth in what you wrote,among the main Serb foes in there were a lot of them(Holbrooke,Clark,Albright,let`s not forget Tom Lantos who started this Kosovo thing,Elliott Engel,Elie Wiesel etc.) and of course much of their media(CNN especially).
At the same time Israel and the Israeli Jews are with us on this issue!
I thing we are being manipulated by each and everyone,that is why we need to learn from the Israeli Jews,acquire nuclear weapons like they did(through smuggling and intelligence work,build a knowledge economy,and do everything in our power to get an outlet to the sea which will make the future Serbian state REALLY independent openening up to it the main shipping lines to the markets of the future!)
Ian UK this is from Mark UK..
After 1948, since the old walled city in its entirety was to the east of the armistice line, Jordan was able to take control of all the holy places therein, and contrary to the terms of the armistice agreement, Israelis were denied access to Jewish holy sites, many of which were desecrated. 34 of the 35 synagogues in the Old City, including the Hurva and the Tiferet Yisrael Synagogue, were destroyed over the course of the next 19 years, either razed or used as stables and hen-houses. The Jewish Cemetery on the Mount of Olives was desecrated, with gravestones used to build roads and latrines.
Jordan allowed only very limited access to Christian holy sites.
During this period, the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque underwent major renovations.
In 1967, despite Israeli pleas that Jordan remain neutral during the Six-Day War, Jordanian forces attacked Israeli-held West Jerusalem on the war's second day. After hand to hand fighting between Israeli and Jordanian soldiers on the Temple Mount, the Israel Defense Force completely pushed the Jordanian, and Iraqi armies out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. On June 27, 1967, a few weeks after the war ended, Israel placed East Jerusalem under its jurisdiction.
Hence Jewish and Christian access to the holy sites inside the old walled city was restored, while the Temple Mount remained under the jurisdiction of an Islamic waqf.
Ian best if you only comment on things you understand, hope this has clarified everthing for you.
(mark, 16 June 2011 12:59)
No you have not clarified everything to me. That still doesn't explain why a new Palestinian state shouldn't have East Jerusalem as their capital, also it doesn't explain why Israel should control all of the city.
I believe that in the event of East Jerusalem becoming the capital of a new Palestinian state, there should be freedom of movement throughout the entire city.
All you have stated is that when the Palestinian lands were under Jordanian occupation there was restriction of movement in parts of Jerusalem and that whilst Jerusalem has been under Israeli occupation there is no longer restrictions with freedom of movement as such. That doesn't give Israel the right to administrate all of the city. Perhaps if West Jerusalem was the Israeli Capital and East Jerusalem was the Palestinian Capital then countries might recognise West Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a single country recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital, hence the reason why all embassies as located in Tel Aviv; the city which is internationally recognised as Israel's capital.
The problem with Israel is that it wants as much land as it can and it doesn't want to give-up a single square centimetre. This is why Israel is now pooing their undies due to the revolution in Egypt with Egypt becoming more pro-Palestinian again and with the Fatah-Hamas agreement, which will lead to them applying for UN membership (pre-1967 boarders) in September without Israel's approval.
If Palestine does achieve UN membership in September, I bet that Israel claims that the UN is anti-Semitic for giving Palestine a seat. I think I might go into William Hill and place a bet on it.
We, Bryan, didn´t show up in this area with a document written by humans in order to justify land grab and genocide.
We have been here all along and we are the same Serbs today as we where yesterday. israeli jews on the other hand, like their tribal brethren s in the west, are 98% ashkenasim´s(or Khazars, a very discussed but an over all accepted fact in israel), Caucasians who converted to judaism en masse. The Palestinians however, stems from those jews we normally refer to, who converted to christianity and islam 2000 years ago. They have not moved an inch since then, are not going to no matter how many apartheid walls and phosphorous bombs they drop on them, and neither are we.
No way Jerusalem`s Old City goes to Muslims - as far it is reigned by Jews at least the tourists can feel safe - even in this Muslim Quarter (but not at night as we were warned and felt on our own skin). Muslims should go back where they came from - to desert - and all HIndus, Buddhists, Christians, Assyrians, seculars etc will be happy
Bryan, you are absolutely correct. Israel is the land for the Hebrew people as given to them by God during Abraham's (Avram) time. God made a covenant with him that this land would be his, and that his descendants would number like the stars in the sky and the sand on a beach. The name "Palestinian" is a geographic appellation, and not a true ethnic group as they are Arabs which invaded the Holy Land. God allowed the Hebrews to clean the land of all the heathen people after they arrived in their birthright territory following the period of slavery in Egypt. The land known as Palestine is for the Jews, and any Christian who does not accept this needs to get their Bible out and educate themselves and not be sucked into the lies being spread by the Muslims and the non-religious Europeans and Americans which directly deny God's Law.
Returned the Sinai to Egypt lot of centimeters there.
Returned Gaza.
Returned Southern Lebanon.
Not very good at keeping land are they?
(mark, 16 June 2011 19:05)
You obviously didn't read properly what I wrote. I never said that Israel doesn't give up land, I said that Israel doesn't "WANT" to give up land. Not even when they can finally end this dispute which has been ongoing since the 1940s. Next time I suggest you read more carefully.
Ian UK this is from Mark UK..
After 1948, since the old walled city in its entirety was to the east of the armistice line, Jordan was able to take control of all the holy places therein, and contrary to the terms of the armistice agreement, Israelis were denied access to Jewish holy sites, many of which were desecrated. 34 of the 35 synagogues in the Old City, including the Hurva and the Tiferet Yisrael Synagogue, were destroyed over the course of the next 19 years, either razed or used as stables and hen-houses. The Jewish Cemetery on the Mount of Olives was desecrated, with gravestones used to build roads and latrines.
Jordan allowed only very limited access to Christian holy sites.
During this period, the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque underwent major renovations.
In 1967, despite Israeli pleas that Jordan remain neutral during the Six-Day War, Jordanian forces attacked Israeli-held West Jerusalem on the war's second day. After hand to hand fighting between Israeli and Jordanian soldiers on the Temple Mount, the Israel Defense Force completely pushed the Jordanian, and Iraqi armies out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. On June 27, 1967, a few weeks after the war ended, Israel placed East Jerusalem under its jurisdiction.
Hence Jewish and Christian access to the holy sites inside the old walled city was restored, while the Temple Mount remained under the jurisdiction of an Islamic waqf.
Ian best if you only comment on things you understand, hope this has clarified everthing for you.
The problem with Israel is that it wants as much land as it can and it doesn't want to give-up a single square centimetre.
Returned the Sinai to Egypt lot of centimeters there.
Returned Gaza.
Returned Southern Lebanon.
Not very good at keeping land are they?
Dont know why people are pooing in their undies as you put it,in the Arab Middle East one dictator goes another one comes.
Palestine has a fundamental right to exist too !
Geneva convention and international law has to be respected !
Occupation has to come to an end as soon as possible and all colonies have to be dismantled.
Blockade of Gaza has to end ASAP !
Refugees have the right to return to their country.
All war criminals have to stand trials in front of independent international courts !
If you wish to impose multi-cultural (multi-religious)societies elsewhere you should ask Israel for the same thing.
Which means NO to Israel as a "jewish state" and NO to the actual apartheid regime !
YES to Israel as a real democratic and multi-ethnic state.
The European Parliament, full of second class politicians who can not make it at home. Their votes over and over again prove this to be the case. European 'democracy' at its worst.
Has someone told them to ask why palestinan owners of many of the buildings in East Jerusalem are selling them to Jews via middle-men in Cyprus?
For the last 20 years most Israelis and almost all americans of jewish decent have been stalwartly anti-serbian and have been instrumental in all the ill that has befallen our nation. Why they did this was simple and practical.It was a rewarding practice to be anti-serbian for many jewish people in the west. While Israelis were killing huge numbers of arab civilians and building walls to enclose millions of palestinians in what are basicly internment camps-powerful and influential jews in Washington, Tel Aviv and in the western media could point to the serbian bad guys and thier attrocities against the muslims and proclaim themselves to be fighting for muslims-while absurdley at the same time commiting more attrocities against muslims over a longer period of time than any other nation or group in the world.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm unbelievable rubbish,i dont understand how the moderators allow this clap trap to be printed B92 you are a disgrace.
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