Party plans rally, authorities ban public gatherings

Everyone should have the right of protest, removing it effectively means Serbia is a police state, it also criminalises the current reigime. The current DS called Milosevic a dictator, but he didnt ban protests. Doesnt that make Tadic worse?

They ban rallies in support of Mladic but they'll pour all their resources in a Gay parade. Vote SRS bc it's time to put the DS traitors into opposition like the SNS!

I don't mind any Mladic protest, but under strict condition that it doesn't block traffic, or use violence that we saw during the Kosovo protest or various other protests attended by hooligans.
(bganon, 27 May 2011 12:24)
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Would you mind if they set government buildings on fire like the Otpor demonstrations? Since Otpor did it and you were a member, it should be acceptable right?

Banning demonstrations is a very democratic way cause when masks are off nothing matters. Next thins we can expect is that Gauleiter of Serbia will ask the Gauleiter of Georgia how to deal with the peaceful demonstrators … Well well well …

I wonder what Mr.Tadic had been doing when Gauleiter Alija Izetbegovic opened Bosnian citizenship to Osama Ben Laden ? And I wonder how low is he going to bow next time just to guarantee his safe emigration ?

Zoran I don't remember a time when OTPOR set any buildings on fire. If you have evidence to the contrary then by all means produce it.

I do remember October 5th 2000 when hundreds of thousands of Serbian people from around the country decided that enough was enough and ousted Slobodan Milosevic. And I do remember football hooligan groups setting fire to buildings then as well that day. Would you call that day an OTPOR demonstation? Thats the kind of propoganda we heard during the worst days of Milosevic.

No worries though, I'm sure that you are genuinely upset that Milosevic has gone and that under hyperinflation you would still have come to Serbia and would have thrived too...

Its bloody comfortable to slam October 5th from the sidelines, even more comfortable when that slamming is cheap talk, rather than real desire.

Like I said, good for the kafana, but not for reality.

This makes everything clear, Tadic's pathetic "liberal" DS can claim all it likes that it stands for democracy, but if you claim to be democratic, there is absolutely no excuse what so ever for banning protests and marches, as a comment below said, they were perfectly happy to not just allow the gay parade but to finance it with the Serbian taxpayers money, this is a disgrace. Anyone who agrees in banning these protests is simply selfish because they want to defend Tadic's destructive ambition of joining the EU, I live in the UK and I tell everyone here that the negatives far outweigh the positives. They almost want to try and pretend that the majority of the Serbian people were not in favour of handing over Mladic, when the most recent polls suggest that this is not true, they think the EU is stupid enough to believe that most Serbian people are sick of their interference and of the puppet government that currently exists.

As for Mladic, well, anyone who does proper research will question that he is guilty of genocide, and I personally owe him my gratitude, because of his actions in Krajina in 1991 he saved many Serbs from my father's village from slaughter, and he saved many other Serbs.

Tadic and his government are a complete disgrace to Serbia and its people, the days of his rule are numbered.

Gee its going to be hard for the Serbs to resist expressing their version of warped democratic rites. Like before post Slobo burning of foreign embassies in Belgrade Serbia. They had so much experience in neighbouring countrys of pillaging burning destroying their neighbours propertys and of much worse. It is going to be darn hard for for thousands of criminal pyromaniac Serbs to resist with so much self taught experience. Only if they were also paid by the Serbian state like before that would make their day. Foreign ambassadorial staffs run come to civilized Croatia why risk it in Serbia again.

Everyone should have the right of protest, removing it effectively means Serbia is a police state, it also criminalises the current reigime. The current DS called Milosevic a dictator, but he didnt ban protests. Doesnt that make Tadic worse?
(New Zealander, 27 May 2011 09:28)

No it doesnt. The authorities are behaving correctly. If the hoolies stir up any trouble, they will be dealt with.

I've got a hunch a good number of these kids have no working knowledge of Mladic or the civil wars that tore Yugoslavia apart. If they want to organize a rally, do it on their own turf in CZ or PF stadiums.

NZ Milosevic did ban opposition protests - in 1996 and 1999 to my memory. Look it up, he may well have banned more protests than that.

I don't mind any Mladic protest, but under strict condition that it doesn't block traffic, or use violence that we saw during the Kosovo protest or various other protests attended by hooligans.

"Foreign ambassadorial staffs run come to civilized Croatia why risk it in Serbia again."

Lenard

What a hypocrit you are. Didn't croats show their dissatisfaction when Ante Gotovina was captured? YES THEY DID! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W91Xh7mJEKY
http://www.whatsontianjin.com/news-392-30k-croats-protest-against-jail-of-national-heroes-ante-gotovina-mladen-markac.html

Civilized Croatia!!! What "civilized" country exterminated 700.000 of its serbian minority? Croatia.
What "civilized" country forced 1/3 of its serbian population to convert to catholicism? Croatia!
What "civilized" country sided with Hitler Germany? Croatia!
What civilized country expelled and/or killed 250.000 of its citizens in the last war? Croatia!
If you call that civilized then I'm Santa Clause.

There are too many dead on each side for anyone to sing the praises or broadcast condemenation on the General hero to some, villian to many. I doubt he personally killed 8000 innocent people. But he knows what he did and it wasnt all good. Hitler loved his wife. The General loves his children. It does not in and of itself excuse the mass murder of civilians. The real murderers on both sides are still at large. They live among us. They are our neighbors family and friends. Some of them are still in the military and government. We have a long way to go to heal. It requires forgiveness and patience. Division and polarization on the debate as to the proper treatment of the General are meaningless. He is no saint. The fact remains that as a nation, Serbia needs to move on, and progress requires that he be punished or martyred for his role in a conflict that has put the great Serbian nation decades behind it peers in Central Europe. We cant balme every trouble in the present on the past. The Hague will judge, and then maybe god. Life is short. I want prosperity and if it made our ascension into the EU go faster, I would feed him to the Muslims in a spicy curry for them all to enjoy. Bye bye. see you in the afterlife. I hope he is half the man that some of you think he is.

"time to put the DS traitors into opposition like the SNS!"


uuuuhm.... that's 70% of the electorate

And I do remember football hooligan groups setting fire to buildings then as well that day. Would you call that day an OTPOR demonstation?
(bganon, 27 May 2011 16:06)
--
I see, so they weren't OTPOR demonstrators but football hooligans? I assume back in those days they were "good" football hooligans due to being on the same side as OTPOR but today, since they became disillusioned and are against this government we can safely say they are "bad" football hooligans right?

It is interesting how you justify criminal activity when it's done for your benefit but object to it when not.

Its not that they arent allowed because of surpressing the need it is because these "demonstrations" ALWAYS ends up into riots

I see Zoran so OTPOR was supported by at least half a million people in Serbia! Go and tell that to the Kolubara miners, the farmers that came from the villages, members of the regular army that abandoned their posts, to self avowed patriots who attended the protest, to football hooligans from Delije and Grobari.

Its a pity, but you can't rewrite history. Its all documented in books and on film. Its as clear as crystal that October 5th was a collective action by the Serbian people and will be remembered as such, no matter what propogandists say.

I don't justify criminal activity, unlike the government of Slobodan Milosevic which was a criminal regime and through whose policies ended up criminalising Serbian society in entirety. Hey but you don't know about that, you weren't there, it must have been great at the time, yea?

I find it very interesting that you are so hypocritical to take full advantage of what the post October 5th period offered you, but at that the same time want to whine about it.

Why don't you donate your earnings from Serbia in this period to the defence of Ratko Mladic? That would be principled!

I see, so Otpor was supported by at least half a million Serbians? What about the several million dollars in support it received from the US? I wouldn't have a problem with Otpor if it was a grass-roots creation but it was created by Serbia's enemies at a time they were fully committed to destroying our nation and people. Anyway, we have been over this and it's old territory. I know you still support this NATO created organisation so there's no point going further. We can read all about it here -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor

Now why would I donate my earnings to Mladic's defence? He is being tried at a NATO court where his guilt is already assumed. He will likely keep it open for a few more years costing NATO countries another billion dollars, whilst living in his retirement room getting a daily massage and the medical treatment he needs before he dies.

I had no problem with Mladic being free because he blocked Tadic's EU programme. I don't condone any crimes and I don't support his trial at the NATO court. If we are going down the justice path then he should be tried in Serbia after the US and UK agree to start proceedings against Blair, Clinton, Bush, Albright, Clark and the other members of the joint criminal enterprise.

However, I would rather go down the truth and reconciliation path but that won't happen because the west has been covering up the truth for decades.

'I see, so Otpor was supported by at least half a million Serbians?'

According to you yes, because at least half a million different people took part in protests and in your words they were 'Otpor protests'. Don't try to back out now...

Where you and I disagree is your exaggerated position and extreme lanugauge, whether you believe your own lanugage or not or whether you are trying to make a point I'm not sure.

Its never enough for you to take account of nuances everything to you is Otpor protest, or Nato court and now 'fully committed to destoying our nation and people'. Of course they are and they always will be - pathologically Zoran! It makes not a jot of difference what position the government takes they will always despise us and be bent upon our destruction.

And why would they need to destroy our people if they have already destroyed our nation? Is that kind of language for dramatic effect?

In a way you are right Zoran, language is the means by which you describe exaggerated positions, not the problem in itself. What I mean is I'm not sure whether you exaggerate the language in a forum such as this, but in your head are more realistic. Because you are certainly prone to expressing a simplistic viewpoint, with little regard to nuance.

As far as the 'theory' about the Eagles and Serbia having problems between East and West, does it bear up under scrutiny?

In 1990 for example which direction was Serbia going in too much that upset the balance? And your theory suggests that Tito (with his policy of balance) was a good thing for Serbia doesn't it?

Again, not a bad topic for kafana or to tell one's children at bedtime, but would it bear up to scientific scrutiny for an academic study?

Equally (and even more attractive, populistic, kafanistic statement) and perhaps more credible than the eagles, is 'only unity can save the Serbs'. But there are half a dozen or so of these sayings / theories for the layman. We can all sit about nodding our heads in agreement until the cows come home.

Sveti Sava said a lot of wise things which is beyond dispute, but one should not persue a policy of equidistance between east and west for the sake of it.

The government (and people) should support SERBIAN self interest. Depending on global circumstances that will change in time. Currently the west in still in the ascendancy, although the east has caught up and will overtake soon. Serbian policies thus should reflect that. Any interpretation of that position being pro west can only be from somebody with a tendancy to myopia or somebody with a pro east bias.

"I had no problem with Mladic being free because he blocked Tadic's EU programme."

I have a question for you Zoran, a curiosity. How does it feel to get defeat after defeat? I mean everything that happens goes against what you believe Zoran, they arrest Mladic, they overthrow Milosevic, they want to enter in the EU, and they vote to put in power the people who do these things. And you are always on the losing side, maybe it's time you reflect why that is.

Where you and I disagree is your exaggerated position and extreme lanugauge, whether you believe your own lanugage or not or whether you are trying to make a point I'm not sure.
(bganon, 28 May 2011 21:00)
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Where you and I disagree has nothing to do with language. I take a position of neutrality and resistance to those forces attempting divide us whereas you clearly take a position favourable to the West.

I'm not sure whether you are a Serb or not, but the Serbian flag has an eagle with two heads, one pointing east and the other west. Whenever one head is ignored and the other strengthened, trouble brews for Serbians. Sv Sava was absolutely correct in his analysis 800 years ago.
--
At first we were confused. The East thought that we were West, while the West considered us to be East. Some of us misunderstood our place in the clash of currents, so they cried that we belong to neither side, and others that we belong exlusively to one side or the other. But I tell you, Ireneus, we are doomed by fate to be the East in the West and the West in the East, to acknowledge only heavenly Jerusalem beyond us, and here on earth--no one".
- St. Sava to Ireneus, 13th century

Well, you can justify your arguments as you see fit. If you want to give yourself credibility by claiming I am exaggerating or descending into kafana talk then that's fine. Time will tell whether Tadic (and the sell-outs) are Western servants overstepping the boundary or whether he is smarter than many calculated.

My opinion is that he has sold out and the East facing head will start pecking the West facing head soon. As for your other questions, now they are the kafana type we can discuss over some rakija one day.

NZ Milosevic did ban opposition protests - in 1996 and 1999 to my memory. Look it up, he may well have banned more protests than that.

I don't mind any Mladic protest, but under strict condition that it doesn't block traffic, or use violence that we saw during the Kosovo protest or various other protests attended by hooligans.

Its not that they arent allowed because of surpressing the need it is because these "demonstrations" ALWAYS ends up into riots

Everyone should have the right of protest, removing it effectively means Serbia is a police state, it also criminalises the current reigime. The current DS called Milosevic a dictator, but he didnt ban protests. Doesnt that make Tadic worse?
(New Zealander, 27 May 2011 09:28)

No it doesnt. The authorities are behaving correctly. If the hoolies stir up any trouble, they will be dealt with.

Gee its going to be hard for the Serbs to resist expressing their version of warped democratic rites. Like before post Slobo burning of foreign embassies in Belgrade Serbia. They had so much experience in neighbouring countrys of pillaging burning destroying their neighbours propertys and of much worse. It is going to be darn hard for for thousands of criminal pyromaniac Serbs to resist with so much self taught experience. Only if they were also paid by the Serbian state like before that would make their day. Foreign ambassadorial staffs run come to civilized Croatia why risk it in Serbia again.

Zoran I don't remember a time when OTPOR set any buildings on fire. If you have evidence to the contrary then by all means produce it.

I do remember October 5th 2000 when hundreds of thousands of Serbian people from around the country decided that enough was enough and ousted Slobodan Milosevic. And I do remember football hooligan groups setting fire to buildings then as well that day. Would you call that day an OTPOR demonstation? Thats the kind of propoganda we heard during the worst days of Milosevic.

No worries though, I'm sure that you are genuinely upset that Milosevic has gone and that under hyperinflation you would still have come to Serbia and would have thrived too...

Its bloody comfortable to slam October 5th from the sidelines, even more comfortable when that slamming is cheap talk, rather than real desire.

Like I said, good for the kafana, but not for reality.

Everyone should have the right of protest, removing it effectively means Serbia is a police state, it also criminalises the current reigime. The current DS called Milosevic a dictator, but he didnt ban protests. Doesnt that make Tadic worse?

They ban rallies in support of Mladic but they'll pour all their resources in a Gay parade. Vote SRS bc it's time to put the DS traitors into opposition like the SNS!

Banning demonstrations is a very democratic way cause when masks are off nothing matters. Next thins we can expect is that Gauleiter of Serbia will ask the Gauleiter of Georgia how to deal with the peaceful demonstrators … Well well well …

I wonder what Mr.Tadic had been doing when Gauleiter Alija Izetbegovic opened Bosnian citizenship to Osama Ben Laden ? And I wonder how low is he going to bow next time just to guarantee his safe emigration ?

"time to put the DS traitors into opposition like the SNS!"


uuuuhm.... that's 70% of the electorate

This makes everything clear, Tadic's pathetic "liberal" DS can claim all it likes that it stands for democracy, but if you claim to be democratic, there is absolutely no excuse what so ever for banning protests and marches, as a comment below said, they were perfectly happy to not just allow the gay parade but to finance it with the Serbian taxpayers money, this is a disgrace. Anyone who agrees in banning these protests is simply selfish because they want to defend Tadic's destructive ambition of joining the EU, I live in the UK and I tell everyone here that the negatives far outweigh the positives. They almost want to try and pretend that the majority of the Serbian people were not in favour of handing over Mladic, when the most recent polls suggest that this is not true, they think the EU is stupid enough to believe that most Serbian people are sick of their interference and of the puppet government that currently exists.

As for Mladic, well, anyone who does proper research will question that he is guilty of genocide, and I personally owe him my gratitude, because of his actions in Krajina in 1991 he saved many Serbs from my father's village from slaughter, and he saved many other Serbs.

Tadic and his government are a complete disgrace to Serbia and its people, the days of his rule are numbered.

I don't mind any Mladic protest, but under strict condition that it doesn't block traffic, or use violence that we saw during the Kosovo protest or various other protests attended by hooligans.
(bganon, 27 May 2011 12:24)
--
Would you mind if they set government buildings on fire like the Otpor demonstrations? Since Otpor did it and you were a member, it should be acceptable right?

I've got a hunch a good number of these kids have no working knowledge of Mladic or the civil wars that tore Yugoslavia apart. If they want to organize a rally, do it on their own turf in CZ or PF stadiums.

There are too many dead on each side for anyone to sing the praises or broadcast condemenation on the General hero to some, villian to many. I doubt he personally killed 8000 innocent people. But he knows what he did and it wasnt all good. Hitler loved his wife. The General loves his children. It does not in and of itself excuse the mass murder of civilians. The real murderers on both sides are still at large. They live among us. They are our neighbors family and friends. Some of them are still in the military and government. We have a long way to go to heal. It requires forgiveness and patience. Division and polarization on the debate as to the proper treatment of the General are meaningless. He is no saint. The fact remains that as a nation, Serbia needs to move on, and progress requires that he be punished or martyred for his role in a conflict that has put the great Serbian nation decades behind it peers in Central Europe. We cant balme every trouble in the present on the past. The Hague will judge, and then maybe god. Life is short. I want prosperity and if it made our ascension into the EU go faster, I would feed him to the Muslims in a spicy curry for them all to enjoy. Bye bye. see you in the afterlife. I hope he is half the man that some of you think he is.

"Foreign ambassadorial staffs run come to civilized Croatia why risk it in Serbia again."

Lenard

What a hypocrit you are. Didn't croats show their dissatisfaction when Ante Gotovina was captured? YES THEY DID! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W91Xh7mJEKY
http://www.whatsontianjin.com/news-392-30k-croats-protest-against-jail-of-national-heroes-ante-gotovina-mladen-markac.html

Civilized Croatia!!! What "civilized" country exterminated 700.000 of its serbian minority? Croatia.
What "civilized" country forced 1/3 of its serbian population to convert to catholicism? Croatia!
What "civilized" country sided with Hitler Germany? Croatia!
What civilized country expelled and/or killed 250.000 of its citizens in the last war? Croatia!
If you call that civilized then I'm Santa Clause.

I see, so Otpor was supported by at least half a million Serbians? What about the several million dollars in support it received from the US? I wouldn't have a problem with Otpor if it was a grass-roots creation but it was created by Serbia's enemies at a time they were fully committed to destroying our nation and people. Anyway, we have been over this and it's old territory. I know you still support this NATO created organisation so there's no point going further. We can read all about it here -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor

Now why would I donate my earnings to Mladic's defence? He is being tried at a NATO court where his guilt is already assumed. He will likely keep it open for a few more years costing NATO countries another billion dollars, whilst living in his retirement room getting a daily massage and the medical treatment he needs before he dies.

I had no problem with Mladic being free because he blocked Tadic's EU programme. I don't condone any crimes and I don't support his trial at the NATO court. If we are going down the justice path then he should be tried in Serbia after the US and UK agree to start proceedings against Blair, Clinton, Bush, Albright, Clark and the other members of the joint criminal enterprise.

However, I would rather go down the truth and reconciliation path but that won't happen because the west has been covering up the truth for decades.

And I do remember football hooligan groups setting fire to buildings then as well that day. Would you call that day an OTPOR demonstation?
(bganon, 27 May 2011 16:06)
--
I see, so they weren't OTPOR demonstrators but football hooligans? I assume back in those days they were "good" football hooligans due to being on the same side as OTPOR but today, since they became disillusioned and are against this government we can safely say they are "bad" football hooligans right?

It is interesting how you justify criminal activity when it's done for your benefit but object to it when not.

I see Zoran so OTPOR was supported by at least half a million people in Serbia! Go and tell that to the Kolubara miners, the farmers that came from the villages, members of the regular army that abandoned their posts, to self avowed patriots who attended the protest, to football hooligans from Delije and Grobari.

Its a pity, but you can't rewrite history. Its all documented in books and on film. Its as clear as crystal that October 5th was a collective action by the Serbian people and will be remembered as such, no matter what propogandists say.

I don't justify criminal activity, unlike the government of Slobodan Milosevic which was a criminal regime and through whose policies ended up criminalising Serbian society in entirety. Hey but you don't know about that, you weren't there, it must have been great at the time, yea?

I find it very interesting that you are so hypocritical to take full advantage of what the post October 5th period offered you, but at that the same time want to whine about it.

Why don't you donate your earnings from Serbia in this period to the defence of Ratko Mladic? That would be principled!

'I see, so Otpor was supported by at least half a million Serbians?'

According to you yes, because at least half a million different people took part in protests and in your words they were 'Otpor protests'. Don't try to back out now...

Where you and I disagree is your exaggerated position and extreme lanugauge, whether you believe your own lanugage or not or whether you are trying to make a point I'm not sure.

Its never enough for you to take account of nuances everything to you is Otpor protest, or Nato court and now 'fully committed to destoying our nation and people'. Of course they are and they always will be - pathologically Zoran! It makes not a jot of difference what position the government takes they will always despise us and be bent upon our destruction.

And why would they need to destroy our people if they have already destroyed our nation? Is that kind of language for dramatic effect?

Where you and I disagree is your exaggerated position and extreme lanugauge, whether you believe your own lanugage or not or whether you are trying to make a point I'm not sure.
(bganon, 28 May 2011 21:00)
--
Where you and I disagree has nothing to do with language. I take a position of neutrality and resistance to those forces attempting divide us whereas you clearly take a position favourable to the West.

I'm not sure whether you are a Serb or not, but the Serbian flag has an eagle with two heads, one pointing east and the other west. Whenever one head is ignored and the other strengthened, trouble brews for Serbians. Sv Sava was absolutely correct in his analysis 800 years ago.
--
At first we were confused. The East thought that we were West, while the West considered us to be East. Some of us misunderstood our place in the clash of currents, so they cried that we belong to neither side, and others that we belong exlusively to one side or the other. But I tell you, Ireneus, we are doomed by fate to be the East in the West and the West in the East, to acknowledge only heavenly Jerusalem beyond us, and here on earth--no one".
- St. Sava to Ireneus, 13th century

"I had no problem with Mladic being free because he blocked Tadic's EU programme."

I have a question for you Zoran, a curiosity. How does it feel to get defeat after defeat? I mean everything that happens goes against what you believe Zoran, they arrest Mladic, they overthrow Milosevic, they want to enter in the EU, and they vote to put in power the people who do these things. And you are always on the losing side, maybe it's time you reflect why that is.

In a way you are right Zoran, language is the means by which you describe exaggerated positions, not the problem in itself. What I mean is I'm not sure whether you exaggerate the language in a forum such as this, but in your head are more realistic. Because you are certainly prone to expressing a simplistic viewpoint, with little regard to nuance.

As far as the 'theory' about the Eagles and Serbia having problems between East and West, does it bear up under scrutiny?

In 1990 for example which direction was Serbia going in too much that upset the balance? And your theory suggests that Tito (with his policy of balance) was a good thing for Serbia doesn't it?

Again, not a bad topic for kafana or to tell one's children at bedtime, but would it bear up to scientific scrutiny for an academic study?

Equally (and even more attractive, populistic, kafanistic statement) and perhaps more credible than the eagles, is 'only unity can save the Serbs'. But there are half a dozen or so of these sayings / theories for the layman. We can all sit about nodding our heads in agreement until the cows come home.

Sveti Sava said a lot of wise things which is beyond dispute, but one should not persue a policy of equidistance between east and west for the sake of it.

The government (and people) should support SERBIAN self interest. Depending on global circumstances that will change in time. Currently the west in still in the ascendancy, although the east has caught up and will overtake soon. Serbian policies thus should reflect that. Any interpretation of that position being pro west can only be from somebody with a tendancy to myopia or somebody with a pro east bias.

Well, you can justify your arguments as you see fit. If you want to give yourself credibility by claiming I am exaggerating or descending into kafana talk then that's fine. Time will tell whether Tadic (and the sell-outs) are Western servants overstepping the boundary or whether he is smarter than many calculated.

My opinion is that he has sold out and the East facing head will start pecking the West facing head soon. As for your other questions, now they are the kafana type we can discuss over some rakija one day.