Serbia region's "key problem", conference hears

"But I wonder how Milo would feel if the Albanians in MNE would declare independence. And why not? If they can in Kosovo, why not in MNE?
(Joe A, 23 May 2011 12:48)"

Because they dont want to get themselves the orders from Russia on decisions like genocide.
When did you see the Montenegrin genocide team killing a whole innocent unarmed family of 50+ members, and then lie and run like rats? Its only in Serbia buddy

Mesic is talking non-sense because Tadic has told Serbs in Bosnia that Bosnia is their country. Djukanovic is saying these things because Clinton is in Macedonia uhhh excuse me, Montenegro and perhaps Milo has intentions to return to the political scene, like he has done often.
These ex-politicians, just like Clinton, want to go down into the history books as wise men who favor peace and prosperity. They have a good point: the region needs to move on but these men want to score cheaply by putting the blame on Serbia.
But I wonder how Milo would feel if the Albanians in MNE would declare independence. And why not? If they can in Kosovo, why not in MNE?

This is a just what I usually intent to pass the message of peace. Milo Djukanovic said similar :

"Belgrade, in my opinion, must realize that a revision of borders is impossible and Kosovo is independent, whatever they think whether Kosovo should be recognized or not. And to focus on what is Serbia's future, and that us Euro perspective," said he.

Time for Serbia to realize the reality on the ground and unconditionally accept Kosovo independence and focus towards EU integration. No more time to lose.

Time for Serbia to realize the reality on the ground and unconditionally accept Kosovo independence and focus towards EU integration. No more time to lose.
(Creative Rationality, 23 May 2011 11:09)

You Albanian irridentists can wish for the Earth, Sun, Moon and the stars but until Belgrade says so, you lot are going nowhere. It's about time you accepted that fact. Nobody, Clinton, Milo or the local, craven lickspittles can do anything about that.

Accept it.

There is nothing more pathetic then politician past his/her expiry date…

Oh, in hindsight:
There is nothing more pathetic then POLITICIANS past THEIR expiry date…

Spot on as always Niall and nice to see you back!

As i have told you before Bganon:I´m not particularly flattered you being obsessed with me... if you have evidence to back up your accusations, please bring them forward and drop me a line as i have suggested previously on numerous occasions (which you,surprise,surprise, never did) , otherwise back off.

Time for Serbia to realize the reality on the ground and unconditionally accept Kosovo independence and focus towards EU integration. No more time to lose.
(Creative Rationality)

Why should they when they're not forced to do anything beyond making good neighborly relations? Serbia has nothing to gain by recognizing Kosovo. And even if they did, what benefit would that give Kosovo since they wouldn't be able to blame Serbia for all their problems? More like time for Montenegro, Kosovo and others to realize the reality on the ground and take responsibility for their own problems and stop blaming Serbia for everything.

"Ben",

And who are you? A beacon of wisdom? A respected commentator who has a respected opinion? By stereotyping all Serbs as bad, sick, and stupid and all others from the former Yugoslav republics are right, fair, and reasonable you have shown clearly that you are just as poor of character as many of the mediocre Serb-hating site thrashers that have reduced the level of this once respected site to its current pathetic level.

As for Mesic, he never sent such a message. Current president Ivo Josipovic does.

This is the message Mesic sends, speaking to Croats in Australia: "Croatia won in world wor 2. We won in 1941 and in 1945. We are the only people that won twice."

Lesson, be a proud Ustasha but when a foreigner looks on act like an anti-fascist. It seems clear that Mesic isn't trustable -- now he's acting all pro-Bosnia (just like when he testified as the Hague he was pro-Yugoslav). But MEsic is an outright nationalist, his actions speak louder then his words.

Mesic gladly spoke in Croatia in the early 1990s how in his position as Yugoslav president he actively worked to destroy the state. Famously saying: "My job is done Yugoslavia is no more." The earlier quote he made in Austria, while he was prime minister in the early 1990s.

And finally he was part of Tudjman's government. He actively support the Croats in the Croat-Bosniak war. Despite his claims to the contrary, Mesic was expelled from the govenrment and Tudjman's party when negotiations started regarding a truce. So much for the pro-Bosnian he claims to be. (There are some Croatian generals saying that he stole million from the military budget, that's why he was expelled).

Mesic is an untrustable character. He went from an anti-commmunist in the Croatian spring, to a radical marxist (someone should see what he said after Croatian spring but before 1990), to a radical rightwing Ustasha, to a pro-Yugoslav.

(Dodosour, 23 May 2011 13:21)
Karadzic is from Montengro and Milo was president of MNE already during the 90s.
Horribly crimes were committed by Serbs (and others) but it stands in the shadow of kidknapping people and harvesting their organs.

Serbia has been critisezed by some balkan leaders as well as trolls at this forum for interfering in the politics of their neighbours. Isn't Djukanovic doing just that by telling Serbia what it should and shouldn't do? When did a tiny insignificant country tell a much larger and way more successful country what is right and what is wrong? Djukanovic, don't you think we know America payed you money and dropped charges against you for cigarett smugling so that you would be their lap dog?
Crawl back in your little hole and stop interfering in our country.

Djukanovic needs to say things like this to remain in his position.

After all wikileaks, journalists and former diplomats have basically confirmed that USA lobbies for Montenegro vis-a-vis the EU.

The USA also lobbies the Italian government against reopening or expanding cigarre smuggling investigations.

If Djukanovic didn't do things like this his American benefactor wouldn't help him any more. And let's just say Djukanovic would then have to not just answer the smuggling allegations, but the fact that he directly ordered Montenegrin soldiers into Hercegovina and Dubrovnik.

No matter what he says. We will all remember that he personally order the attack on Dubrovnik. That he was famous for coining the phrase in 1991, "this is war for peace."

And that until 2000, when Slobo fell from power he would say the following in election campaigns. "This village (insert Montenegrin village of 3,000 people") gave more conscripts for the war then all of Belgrade."
Although the significance of the quote shows the logic of Serbophobes. Serbia's to blame for the actions of Serbs in Bosnia and of Montenegrins, let's just ignore that draft dodging in 1991 and 1992 was at some 80%+.

Djukanovic does things like this to save his hide:
- He became "pro-western" when he ran afoul of slobo's son who was also involved in cigarette smuggling.
- Then in 2001 he became openly secessionist when after Slobo fell and was extradited there existed the policy of himself ending up in a jail cell in Italy or even worst, for him, the Hague (i.e. Dubrovnik attacks) -- that's when he stopped bombastically declaring how great the war was.
- In 2006 after achieving independence he become openly pro-NATO, now Montenegro has laws that guarantee he wont be extradited to Italy for smuggling allegations.
Who knows what is it this time?

A conference attended by two political has-beens and someone who couldn't figure out where he was.

And here I thought I was going to read something serious and insightful.

Hilarious, when it was Yugoslavia everyone said “no, Belgrade shouldn't be leading us” and so they split. Now that they are all “free” it’s suddenly Serbia’s fault that they’ve failed to become members of the EU or make something of themselves, because Serbia hasn’t taken the "lead role" in the region...

No, as Jeremic said, the biggest problem in the Balkans is the ties between organized crime and politics...

Milo is just wishing to get back 90is.so he can get more payback for selling the best of montenegro..and Mesic wishes he was more of a thief like Milo.

what else is there to expect from a traitor... given that Montenegrins are ethnic Serbs there is no worse thing on earth than to act against the very own poeple.

no, Serbia´s of course not the problem. the problem is that clowns in foreign service are given space in foreign paid media, like B92.

but don´t worry, he will get what he deserves. in the end of the day, he´s a simple cigarette smuggler.

wtf (troll) its a pity that nobody feels the same way about you. Still, I'm sure you can persuade yourself that isn't the case by 'orchestrating' a few thumbs up for yourself and a few thumbs down for me.

I see you have been at it again today already. You have zero credibility around here mate.

A lot of Clinton ex's on their knees before him. Where is Lewinsky? Another meaningless conference attended by war criminals, chiefs of organized crime and liars. It must be hard for these people to admit their irrelevance.

No doubt funded by the usual suspects.

Is it possible that everyone says to you Serbs the same thing: you are the probelm.

Just ask Slovenians, Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians, Macedonians and even your borther Montenegirns. And you still say no they are all worng only we are right.

Do you have doctors in Serbia?? need help??

Leave Milo alone there are 15 million of tyour ex co-citizens that are saying the same, it's not only millo.. wake up Serbia...

you behave as the crazy guy in the worng way in highway thet hears in the radion a warning careful there is crazy guy on worng side of the highway and says; if it was only one....

Poor Serbs. It almost makes me cry!

"As an American of non-Serbian descent...but interested in Serbs...I think the only realistic solution is a general redrawing or tweaking of borders in the Balkans. Divide Kosovo with monasteries placed under UN protection/guard indefinitely; merge N Kosovo, Srpska, and part of Krajina into Serbia; move a small part of Sandzak to Kosovo; merge part of the Croatian area of Bosnia to Croatia; merge Kosovo with Albania; merge small part of Macedonia with Albania; leave a Bosniak dominated Bosnia-Hert. Past problems are too intense to ignore and no group wants to be dominated by the other because there is a lack of trust. Give and take from all would be needed the the EU and Russia mediating the talks."

Let me correct you something Mark Bond. Sandzak or whatever it is has no connection to Kosovo whatsoever, I think it belongs to Bosnia according to your scenario. Then merge Presevo Valley with Kosovo i.e. with Albania and also Ulcinj again with Albania. You idea of protecting the monasteries indefinitely seems very weird and of course just fantasy. After that Macedonia is dissolved and Bulgaria wants a piece of cake that all will lead to another Balkan war. Instead if the Serbs forget Kosovo the problem is solved and all will be happy. So Milo is right. Thnx.

Slaves.

ben, 23 May 2011 16:19)

That’s why we Serbs rule the region because we do not let scum steal our land and as far as Dukanovic is concerned he would sell out his mother for a packet of cigarettes let alone anyone else. The west supports him – a great look for the lovers of freedom, democracy and rule of so called law.

What do the Slovenes; Croats etc have to whine about considering they are independent countries? I can tell you what, it’s because Serbia no longer props them up.

I dont know why anyone should listen to Djukanovic or why he is even given a chance to voice his opinion, especially as hes criminal in the illeagal cigarette trade and not to mention he is practically a whore to the West, as a Serb his comments dont really bother me, for me he is to be laughed at.

There is nothing more pathetic then politician past his/her expiry date…
(Jelena, UK, 23 May 2011 11:12)

There is: Milo and Mesić talking before Clinton who can't make a difference between CG and MK.
That trio is not just past their expiration day - they used to be very "special" politicians.
.

Poor Serbs. It almost makes me cry!
(ivan, 23 May 2011 19:30) ahhhahahaah ivan you must be comedian,i read your comments all the times and i love your sense of humor.

So Serbia must accept independence of Kosovo?
Well, then we don't tell China to accept that Taiwan really is an independent country?
Why don't we tell Georgia to recognize Abkhazia?
Azerbeidjan to recognize Karabakh?

And hey, why not tell Bosnia to recognise RS? And Croats in Bosnia? Well, why don't we tell Bosnia to give them at least an own entity?

Northern Cyprus?
Tamils?
Kurds?
Flanders?


No double standards! Rules apply to all or none!

As an American of non-Serbian descent...but interested in Serbs...I think the only realistic solution is a general redrawing or tweaking of borders in the Balkans. Divide Kosovo with monasteries placed under UN protection/guard indefinitely; merge N Kosovo, Srpska, and part of Krajina into Serbia; move a small part of Sandzak to Kosovo; merge part of the Croatian area of Bosnia to Croatia; merge Kosovo with Albania; merge small part of Macedonia with Albania; leave a Bosniak dominated Bosnia-Hert. Past problems are too intense to ignore and no group wants to be dominated by the other because there is a lack of trust. Give and take from all would be needed the the EU and Russia mediating the talks.

Time for Serbia to realize the reality on the ground and unconditionally accept Kosovo independence and focus towards EU integration. No more time to lose.
(Creative Rationality, 23 May 2011 11:09)

You Albanian irridentists can wish for the Earth, Sun, Moon and the stars but until Belgrade says so, you lot are going nowhere. It's about time you accepted that fact. Nobody, Clinton, Milo or the local, craven lickspittles can do anything about that.

Accept it.

This is a just what I usually intent to pass the message of peace. Milo Djukanovic said similar :

"Belgrade, in my opinion, must realize that a revision of borders is impossible and Kosovo is independent, whatever they think whether Kosovo should be recognized or not. And to focus on what is Serbia's future, and that us Euro perspective," said he.

Time for Serbia to realize the reality on the ground and unconditionally accept Kosovo independence and focus towards EU integration. No more time to lose.

"But I wonder how Milo would feel if the Albanians in MNE would declare independence. And why not? If they can in Kosovo, why not in MNE?
(Joe A, 23 May 2011 12:48)"

Because they dont want to get themselves the orders from Russia on decisions like genocide.
When did you see the Montenegrin genocide team killing a whole innocent unarmed family of 50+ members, and then lie and run like rats? Its only in Serbia buddy

(Dodosour, 23 May 2011 13:21)
Karadzic is from Montengro and Milo was president of MNE already during the 90s.
Horribly crimes were committed by Serbs (and others) but it stands in the shadow of kidknapping people and harvesting their organs.

Poor Serbs. It almost makes me cry!

wtf (troll) its a pity that nobody feels the same way about you. Still, I'm sure you can persuade yourself that isn't the case by 'orchestrating' a few thumbs up for yourself and a few thumbs down for me.

I see you have been at it again today already. You have zero credibility around here mate.

Is it possible that everyone says to you Serbs the same thing: you are the probelm.

Just ask Slovenians, Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians, Macedonians and even your borther Montenegirns. And you still say no they are all worng only we are right.

Do you have doctors in Serbia?? need help??

Leave Milo alone there are 15 million of tyour ex co-citizens that are saying the same, it's not only millo.. wake up Serbia...

you behave as the crazy guy in the worng way in highway thet hears in the radion a warning careful there is crazy guy on worng side of the highway and says; if it was only one....

Spot on as always Niall and nice to see you back!

Mesic is talking non-sense because Tadic has told Serbs in Bosnia that Bosnia is their country. Djukanovic is saying these things because Clinton is in Macedonia uhhh excuse me, Montenegro and perhaps Milo has intentions to return to the political scene, like he has done often.
These ex-politicians, just like Clinton, want to go down into the history books as wise men who favor peace and prosperity. They have a good point: the region needs to move on but these men want to score cheaply by putting the blame on Serbia.
But I wonder how Milo would feel if the Albanians in MNE would declare independence. And why not? If they can in Kosovo, why not in MNE?

As an American of non-Serbian descent...but interested in Serbs...I think the only realistic solution is a general redrawing or tweaking of borders in the Balkans. Divide Kosovo with monasteries placed under UN protection/guard indefinitely; merge N Kosovo, Srpska, and part of Krajina into Serbia; move a small part of Sandzak to Kosovo; merge part of the Croatian area of Bosnia to Croatia; merge Kosovo with Albania; merge small part of Macedonia with Albania; leave a Bosniak dominated Bosnia-Hert. Past problems are too intense to ignore and no group wants to be dominated by the other because there is a lack of trust. Give and take from all would be needed the the EU and Russia mediating the talks.

There is nothing more pathetic then politician past his/her expiry date…

Oh, in hindsight:
There is nothing more pathetic then POLITICIANS past THEIR expiry date…

"Ben",

And who are you? A beacon of wisdom? A respected commentator who has a respected opinion? By stereotyping all Serbs as bad, sick, and stupid and all others from the former Yugoslav republics are right, fair, and reasonable you have shown clearly that you are just as poor of character as many of the mediocre Serb-hating site thrashers that have reduced the level of this once respected site to its current pathetic level.

Time for Serbia to realize the reality on the ground and unconditionally accept Kosovo independence and focus towards EU integration. No more time to lose.
(Creative Rationality)

Why should they when they're not forced to do anything beyond making good neighborly relations? Serbia has nothing to gain by recognizing Kosovo. And even if they did, what benefit would that give Kosovo since they wouldn't be able to blame Serbia for all their problems? More like time for Montenegro, Kosovo and others to realize the reality on the ground and take responsibility for their own problems and stop blaming Serbia for everything.

A conference attended by two political has-beens and someone who couldn't figure out where he was.

And here I thought I was going to read something serious and insightful.

"As an American of non-Serbian descent...but interested in Serbs...I think the only realistic solution is a general redrawing or tweaking of borders in the Balkans. Divide Kosovo with monasteries placed under UN protection/guard indefinitely; merge N Kosovo, Srpska, and part of Krajina into Serbia; move a small part of Sandzak to Kosovo; merge part of the Croatian area of Bosnia to Croatia; merge Kosovo with Albania; merge small part of Macedonia with Albania; leave a Bosniak dominated Bosnia-Hert. Past problems are too intense to ignore and no group wants to be dominated by the other because there is a lack of trust. Give and take from all would be needed the the EU and Russia mediating the talks."

Let me correct you something Mark Bond. Sandzak or whatever it is has no connection to Kosovo whatsoever, I think it belongs to Bosnia according to your scenario. Then merge Presevo Valley with Kosovo i.e. with Albania and also Ulcinj again with Albania. You idea of protecting the monasteries indefinitely seems very weird and of course just fantasy. After that Macedonia is dissolved and Bulgaria wants a piece of cake that all will lead to another Balkan war. Instead if the Serbs forget Kosovo the problem is solved and all will be happy. So Milo is right. Thnx.

As i have told you before Bganon:I´m not particularly flattered you being obsessed with me... if you have evidence to back up your accusations, please bring them forward and drop me a line as i have suggested previously on numerous occasions (which you,surprise,surprise, never did) , otherwise back off.

As for Mesic, he never sent such a message. Current president Ivo Josipovic does.

This is the message Mesic sends, speaking to Croats in Australia: "Croatia won in world wor 2. We won in 1941 and in 1945. We are the only people that won twice."

Lesson, be a proud Ustasha but when a foreigner looks on act like an anti-fascist. It seems clear that Mesic isn't trustable -- now he's acting all pro-Bosnia (just like when he testified as the Hague he was pro-Yugoslav). But MEsic is an outright nationalist, his actions speak louder then his words.

Mesic gladly spoke in Croatia in the early 1990s how in his position as Yugoslav president he actively worked to destroy the state. Famously saying: "My job is done Yugoslavia is no more." The earlier quote he made in Austria, while he was prime minister in the early 1990s.

And finally he was part of Tudjman's government. He actively support the Croats in the Croat-Bosniak war. Despite his claims to the contrary, Mesic was expelled from the govenrment and Tudjman's party when negotiations started regarding a truce. So much for the pro-Bosnian he claims to be. (There are some Croatian generals saying that he stole million from the military budget, that's why he was expelled).

Mesic is an untrustable character. He went from an anti-commmunist in the Croatian spring, to a radical marxist (someone should see what he said after Croatian spring but before 1990), to a radical rightwing Ustasha, to a pro-Yugoslav.

Serbia has been critisezed by some balkan leaders as well as trolls at this forum for interfering in the politics of their neighbours. Isn't Djukanovic doing just that by telling Serbia what it should and shouldn't do? When did a tiny insignificant country tell a much larger and way more successful country what is right and what is wrong? Djukanovic, don't you think we know America payed you money and dropped charges against you for cigarett smugling so that you would be their lap dog?
Crawl back in your little hole and stop interfering in our country.

what else is there to expect from a traitor... given that Montenegrins are ethnic Serbs there is no worse thing on earth than to act against the very own poeple.

no, Serbia´s of course not the problem. the problem is that clowns in foreign service are given space in foreign paid media, like B92.

but don´t worry, he will get what he deserves. in the end of the day, he´s a simple cigarette smuggler.

Djukanovic needs to say things like this to remain in his position.

After all wikileaks, journalists and former diplomats have basically confirmed that USA lobbies for Montenegro vis-a-vis the EU.

The USA also lobbies the Italian government against reopening or expanding cigarre smuggling investigations.

If Djukanovic didn't do things like this his American benefactor wouldn't help him any more. And let's just say Djukanovic would then have to not just answer the smuggling allegations, but the fact that he directly ordered Montenegrin soldiers into Hercegovina and Dubrovnik.

No matter what he says. We will all remember that he personally order the attack on Dubrovnik. That he was famous for coining the phrase in 1991, "this is war for peace."

And that until 2000, when Slobo fell from power he would say the following in election campaigns. "This village (insert Montenegrin village of 3,000 people") gave more conscripts for the war then all of Belgrade."
Although the significance of the quote shows the logic of Serbophobes. Serbia's to blame for the actions of Serbs in Bosnia and of Montenegrins, let's just ignore that draft dodging in 1991 and 1992 was at some 80%+.

Djukanovic does things like this to save his hide:
- He became "pro-western" when he ran afoul of slobo's son who was also involved in cigarette smuggling.
- Then in 2001 he became openly secessionist when after Slobo fell and was extradited there existed the policy of himself ending up in a jail cell in Italy or even worst, for him, the Hague (i.e. Dubrovnik attacks) -- that's when he stopped bombastically declaring how great the war was.
- In 2006 after achieving independence he become openly pro-NATO, now Montenegro has laws that guarantee he wont be extradited to Italy for smuggling allegations.
Who knows what is it this time?

ben, 23 May 2011 16:19)

That’s why we Serbs rule the region because we do not let scum steal our land and as far as Dukanovic is concerned he would sell out his mother for a packet of cigarettes let alone anyone else. The west supports him – a great look for the lovers of freedom, democracy and rule of so called law.

What do the Slovenes; Croats etc have to whine about considering they are independent countries? I can tell you what, it’s because Serbia no longer props them up.

A lot of Clinton ex's on their knees before him. Where is Lewinsky? Another meaningless conference attended by war criminals, chiefs of organized crime and liars. It must be hard for these people to admit their irrelevance.

No doubt funded by the usual suspects.

Milo is just wishing to get back 90is.so he can get more payback for selling the best of montenegro..and Mesic wishes he was more of a thief like Milo.

Hilarious, when it was Yugoslavia everyone said “no, Belgrade shouldn't be leading us” and so they split. Now that they are all “free” it’s suddenly Serbia’s fault that they’ve failed to become members of the EU or make something of themselves, because Serbia hasn’t taken the "lead role" in the region...

No, as Jeremic said, the biggest problem in the Balkans is the ties between organized crime and politics...

Poor Serbs. It almost makes me cry!
(ivan, 23 May 2011 19:30) ahhhahahaah ivan you must be comedian,i read your comments all the times and i love your sense of humor.

So Serbia must accept independence of Kosovo?
Well, then we don't tell China to accept that Taiwan really is an independent country?
Why don't we tell Georgia to recognize Abkhazia?
Azerbeidjan to recognize Karabakh?

And hey, why not tell Bosnia to recognise RS? And Croats in Bosnia? Well, why don't we tell Bosnia to give them at least an own entity?

Northern Cyprus?
Tamils?
Kurds?
Flanders?


No double standards! Rules apply to all or none!

I dont know why anyone should listen to Djukanovic or why he is even given a chance to voice his opinion, especially as hes criminal in the illeagal cigarette trade and not to mention he is practically a whore to the West, as a Serb his comments dont really bother me, for me he is to be laughed at.

There is nothing more pathetic then politician past his/her expiry date…
(Jelena, UK, 23 May 2011 11:12)

There is: Milo and Mesić talking before Clinton who can't make a difference between CG and MK.
That trio is not just past their expiration day - they used to be very "special" politicians.
.

Slaves.