“Good neighborly relations requirement of EU accession”

"My dear friend,

Kosovo and Serbia are not neighbours. As Kosovo is a part of Serbia. Or does the USA border Texas? Does Cyprus border Northern Cyprus? Does Georgia border Abkhazia?
Ron"

Ron, you are free to think whatever you wish.

My dear friend,

Kosovo and Serbia are not neighbours. As Kosovo is a part of Serbia. Or does the USA border Texas? Does Cyprus border Northern Cyprus? Does Georgia border Abkhazia?

It certainly doesn't let Pristina off the hook. What is good for the goose... Tick tock, time is running out in the south. Belgrade has time on its side. BTW, there's still a power struggle between Barroso and Ashton over the new EU diplomatic serviec and other stuff behind the scenes. National governments want Ashton to keep Barroso in his place...

Ron,

You are absolutely right - Kosovo & Metohija is not a neighbouring country - it remains UN recognised Serbian province and EU acknowledge thus with Staus Neutral.

Tadic allows this to be suggested otherwise but he misses a huge trick;
EU say Serbia will not be conditioned to recognise implicit or otherwise the illegal attempt at secession of Serbian Albanians in the southern portion (not all as Gracanica, strepce etc) of Kosovo & Metohija - but suggest neighbouring countries must be on good relations - in which case that only means Albania itself given that 'Kosova' is not a neighbouring 'country' that no-one expects Serbia to ever recognise!

In which case these talks by Barroso contradictions are neither important or neccesary.

Oh ya...where are all the recognitions?
Oh ya...do you need more handouts to pay your staff as they are now public nuseance for host nations.

Ron, You are absolutely right - Kosovo & Metohija is not a neighbouring country
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

That’s your opinion, and it’s your right to express it. But that’s not what most of the other neighbouring (or for that matter the majority of the world) countries think… They think that Kosovo is indeed a country. Now, whether it is neighbouring to Serbia or not, I leave that to geography since I’m not a geography expert….



it remains UN recognised Serbian province
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

what is a “UN recognized province” ?!… I could not find its definition in international law !



and EU acknowledge thus with Staus Neutral.
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

Any proof of this ?… I’ve not heard about it ! I’ve only heard that the EU respects resolution 1244 according to which Kosovo’s declaration of independence is not a violation of 1244.



EU say Serbia will not be conditioned to recognise implicit or otherwise the illegal attempt at secession of Serbian Albanians
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

Sure, I think everybody agrees that Kosovo’s declaration of independence was illegal under Serbian law… By all means, I strongly encourage you to sue the authors of the declaration in a Serbia Court. I guarantee that you have a 100% chance of success that the Serbia Court will decide that declaration is illegal under Serbia law.



In which case these talks by Barroso contradictions are neither important or neccesary.
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

Absolutely correct if that makes you happy and Serbia doesn’t want to join the EU. I think Albanians in Kosovo and some Serbs too will be very happy with that.

That’s your opinion, and it’s your right to express it. But that’s not what most of the other neighbouring (or for that matter the majority of the world) countries think… They think that Kosovo is indeed a country. Now, whether it is neighbouring to Serbia or not, I leave that to geography since I’m not a geography expert….
(icj1, 21 May 2011 21:20)
Last time I checked, 75 out of 192 UN member states recognized Kosovo as country. Weather this is the majority I leave to your electronic calculator, since you seem not to be an expert an higher mathematics, neither. Or maybe it's indeed the majority (in Kosovarian calculation) where it's possible that Thaci can be elected with 113% of the votes ;-)

Can someone tell me why were still trying to join the EU? Do we want their economic problems on top of ours? What do you really think they are going to do for us? They want us to bend over backwards and give them our first born just to join. Do you believe that if we are "accepted" it will start raining gold coins? We are better off as we always have been, on our own. Why trade our pride for an empty hat.

"I said another thing... I said that the majority of the world countries (at least 109 of them) think that Kosovo is a country...

I did not say anything about recognitions..."
(icj1, 22 May 2011 17:56)

Now countries are THINKING. And probably thinking loud, otherwise how can anyone know what they are thinking? This forum is getting funnier every day.

I did not say that the majority of countries recognizes Kosovo. On the recognition your are correct, 75 have said they recognize, less than 20 have said they don't recognize, the rest we don't know since they have not said anything.
(icj1, 22 May 2011 18:22)
==============================

How desperate are you people to believe this garbage? How many times do you have to be told that unless people say YES, it definitely a NO?
Try conducting business in those countries and see how many have recognised you.

Until you get a YES you have nothing.

Ron, You are absolutely right - Kosovo & Metohija is not a neighbouring country
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

That’s your opinion, and it’s your right to express it. But that’s not what most of the other neighbouring (or for that matter the majority of the world) countries think
================================

ICJ, you are delusional. Majority of the world does not recognise Kosovo and even the Albanians know it, except you it seems.
Why don't you start making a list of yes and nos and see what you get?

Dear commenters, would you please enlighten me if "Kosovo is Serbia" what are those handsome uniformed guys doing at Merdare with AK47? What are those containers?

Are they boyscouts? Or maybe guerilla fighters? Why do they stop vehicles? Can all citizens of Kosovo freely move about the territory of Serbia, live, work there?

Perhaps, in reality, there is a border crossing? Within a sovereign contry???

Mind that 1244 is still valid.
(Ron, 22 May 2011 06:20)

Yeas and I, too, have been reminding others over and over in these forums that 1244 is still valid. So I’m glad that I see some have started to understand that it is still valid.



And 1244 says that Kosovo is a Serbian province ruled by UN.
(Ron, 22 May 2011 06:20)

Let’s assume it is so…

So (i) Serbia is not in charge (UN is ruling); (ii) Kosovo’s UDI is in accordance with 1244. And 1244 will probably be in force for a very long time and thus (i) and (ii) will be there for the foreseeable future. Albanians are so happy with that they included 1244 in their declaration of independence and constitution like no other state in the world has done.



According to the ICJ (not binding) Kosovo's UDI does not violate 1244. Well, I do not agree.
(Ron, 22 May 2011 06:20)

It’s your right to not agree, but between your opinion and ICJ’s opinion, I’m not sure if there is any doubt what is more authoritative.



But even if it did not: that is only about the delcaration itself. That does not mean that Kosovo is a state. If it was a state then 1244 would be overruled. And 1244 is still in effect. So at least for the UN Kosovo is still a Serbian province.
(Ron, 22 May 2011 06:20)

No, if Kosovo is a state, 1244 is neither overruled nor confirmed because 1244 did not say that Kosovo cannot be a state in the future. Indeed, in resolution 1244 (1999) the Security Council did not reserve for itself the final determination of the situation in Kosovo and remained silent on the conditions for the final status of Kosovo.



You do not agree with that? Fine. Just let Kosovo apply for UN membership! And UEFA? And EU? And NATO?
(Ron, 22 May 2011 06:20)

Not sure what agreeing with you or not has to do with UN membership, UEFA, EU, etc… None of these proves independence ! Let me know if you need examples…

icj1,

Mind that 1244 is still valid. And 1244 says that Kosovo is a Serbian province ruled by UN.
According to the ICJ (not binding) Kosovo's UDI does not violate 1244. Well, I do not agree. But even if it did not: that is only about the delcaration itself. That does not mean that Kosovo is a state. If it was a state then 1244 would be overruled. And 1244 is still in effect. So at least for the UN Kosovo is still a Serbian province.

You do not agree with that? Fine. Just let Kosovo apply for UN membership! And UEFA? And EU? And NATO?

Apart from this: at the moment the entry of new memberstates into EU is very, very, VERY far away!

"We are better off as we always have been, on our own
(Nikoli, 22 May 2011 09:25)

Exactly! That's why Serbia is the richest country in Europe with the highest GDP per capity, only topped by the independent dream state of Kosovo.

"by the way, Barroso did not say "neighbouring countries must be on good relations". He said, according to B92, "good neighbourly relations" without mentioning "country" but "neighbours". So regardless of whether Serbia considers Kosovo a country..."
(icj1, 21 May 2011 22:03)

Yes. Just like the talks are called 'Belgrade-Pristina dialogue' - no mention of countries. But one thing you got wrong: It's not (primarily) about if 'Serbia considers Kosovo a country' or not, but you must be aware that 5 out of 27 EU member states don't consider Kosovo a country, and so it's only normal that the EU as a whole is status neutral.

but suggest neighbouring countries must be on good relations
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

by the way, Barroso did not say "neighbouring countries must be on good relations". He said, according to B92, "good neighbourly relations" without mentioning "country" but "neighbours". So regardless of whether Serbia considers Kosovo a country, a province or a black hole, it should still have good relations with that neighbouring black hole... The rest of your forced "logic" to find "paradoxes" is then nil since it was based on a false citation.

Ron, I was thinking exactly the same thing. How can Serbia have good neighbourly relations with itself?
Serbia has good neighbourly relation with ALL it's neighbours already and since Kosovo is a part of Serbia where is the problem?

EU membership isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway.

I hope he also talked about organ trade !

Last time I checked, 75 out of 192 UN member states recognized Kosovo as country.
(Top, 22 May 2011 09:17)

Here is another one that can't read... I said the majority of the world countries think that Kosovo is a country.


I did not say that the majority of countries recognizes Kosovo. On the recognition your are correct, 75 have said they recognize, less than 20 have said they don't recognize, the rest we don't know since they have not said anything.

Exactly! That's why Serbia is the richest country in Europe with the highest GDP per capity, only topped by the independent dream state of Kosovo.
(Top, 22 May 2011 14:11)
============================

Actually, you are not very funny at all. I'm sure you can come up with a some EU countries which are doing worse than Serbia if you really tried.
Attempts at humour like this don't do you any service at all, since I know you are more clued in than this.

Barroso is a joke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HB_L1cnCqs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSCoXdDX5IE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc3rtjj9VUU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyq7WRr_GPg

ICJ, you are delusional. Majority of the world does not recognise Kosovo and even the Albanians know it, except you it seems.
Why don't you start making a list of yes and nos and see what you get?
(Peggy, 22 May 2011 02:06)

I said another thing... I said that the majority of the world countries (at least 109 of them) think that Kosovo is a country...

I did not say anything about recognitions...

Barroso is a joke.

[link]
[link]
[link]
[link]
(Zoran, 21 May 2011 21:50)


Exactly, and you are the real deal. But tell that to those sellouts in Belgrade.

Now countries are THINKING. And probably thinking loud, otherwise how can anyone know what they are thinking? This forum is getting funnier every day.
(Top, 22 May 2011 19:10)

Very funny, indeed :) Countries have different ways to think... voting is one on them


Countries were called to vote on whether Kosovo should be admitted to WB and IMF. At least 109 of the countries (please READ: countries, not votes; we do know US has more votes than, say, Kosovo) said "yes" and with that they said "yes" Kosovo is a country because only countries can be WB and IMF members.

Now, is that recognition or not by this 109 countries ? I don't know... I'm leaving that to you, if you feel strongly. Either way it's fine with me.

How desperate are you people to believe this garbage? How many times do you have to be told that unless people say YES, it definitely a NO?
(Peggy, 22 May 2011 23:40)

This is the first time I hear it, probably because most of the people I speak with are normal and when they say YES, they mean YES, when they say NO, they mean NO. When they have not said anything, only they know what they really think. I’m not inside their brain.

But if you are inside other people's brain, pleeeaaaase illuminate us and bring proof of what they think.

My dear friend,

Kosovo and Serbia are not neighbours. As Kosovo is a part of Serbia. Or does the USA border Texas? Does Cyprus border Northern Cyprus? Does Georgia border Abkhazia?

It certainly doesn't let Pristina off the hook. What is good for the goose... Tick tock, time is running out in the south. Belgrade has time on its side. BTW, there's still a power struggle between Barroso and Ashton over the new EU diplomatic serviec and other stuff behind the scenes. National governments want Ashton to keep Barroso in his place...

"My dear friend,

Kosovo and Serbia are not neighbours. As Kosovo is a part of Serbia. Or does the USA border Texas? Does Cyprus border Northern Cyprus? Does Georgia border Abkhazia?
Ron"

Ron, you are free to think whatever you wish.

Ron,

You are absolutely right - Kosovo & Metohija is not a neighbouring country - it remains UN recognised Serbian province and EU acknowledge thus with Staus Neutral.

Tadic allows this to be suggested otherwise but he misses a huge trick;
EU say Serbia will not be conditioned to recognise implicit or otherwise the illegal attempt at secession of Serbian Albanians in the southern portion (not all as Gracanica, strepce etc) of Kosovo & Metohija - but suggest neighbouring countries must be on good relations - in which case that only means Albania itself given that 'Kosova' is not a neighbouring 'country' that no-one expects Serbia to ever recognise!

In which case these talks by Barroso contradictions are neither important or neccesary.

Oh ya...where are all the recognitions?
Oh ya...do you need more handouts to pay your staff as they are now public nuseance for host nations.

Ron, You are absolutely right - Kosovo & Metohija is not a neighbouring country
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

That’s your opinion, and it’s your right to express it. But that’s not what most of the other neighbouring (or for that matter the majority of the world) countries think… They think that Kosovo is indeed a country. Now, whether it is neighbouring to Serbia or not, I leave that to geography since I’m not a geography expert….



it remains UN recognised Serbian province
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

what is a “UN recognized province” ?!… I could not find its definition in international law !



and EU acknowledge thus with Staus Neutral.
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

Any proof of this ?… I’ve not heard about it ! I’ve only heard that the EU respects resolution 1244 according to which Kosovo’s declaration of independence is not a violation of 1244.



EU say Serbia will not be conditioned to recognise implicit or otherwise the illegal attempt at secession of Serbian Albanians
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

Sure, I think everybody agrees that Kosovo’s declaration of independence was illegal under Serbian law… By all means, I strongly encourage you to sue the authors of the declaration in a Serbia Court. I guarantee that you have a 100% chance of success that the Serbia Court will decide that declaration is illegal under Serbia law.



In which case these talks by Barroso contradictions are neither important or neccesary.
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

Absolutely correct if that makes you happy and Serbia doesn’t want to join the EU. I think Albanians in Kosovo and some Serbs too will be very happy with that.

icj1,

Mind that 1244 is still valid. And 1244 says that Kosovo is a Serbian province ruled by UN.
According to the ICJ (not binding) Kosovo's UDI does not violate 1244. Well, I do not agree. But even if it did not: that is only about the delcaration itself. That does not mean that Kosovo is a state. If it was a state then 1244 would be overruled. And 1244 is still in effect. So at least for the UN Kosovo is still a Serbian province.

You do not agree with that? Fine. Just let Kosovo apply for UN membership! And UEFA? And EU? And NATO?

Apart from this: at the moment the entry of new memberstates into EU is very, very, VERY far away!

Ron, You are absolutely right - Kosovo & Metohija is not a neighbouring country
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

That’s your opinion, and it’s your right to express it. But that’s not what most of the other neighbouring (or for that matter the majority of the world) countries think
================================

ICJ, you are delusional. Majority of the world does not recognise Kosovo and even the Albanians know it, except you it seems.
Why don't you start making a list of yes and nos and see what you get?

That’s your opinion, and it’s your right to express it. But that’s not what most of the other neighbouring (or for that matter the majority of the world) countries think… They think that Kosovo is indeed a country. Now, whether it is neighbouring to Serbia or not, I leave that to geography since I’m not a geography expert….
(icj1, 21 May 2011 21:20)
Last time I checked, 75 out of 192 UN member states recognized Kosovo as country. Weather this is the majority I leave to your electronic calculator, since you seem not to be an expert an higher mathematics, neither. Or maybe it's indeed the majority (in Kosovarian calculation) where it's possible that Thaci can be elected with 113% of the votes ;-)

I hope he also talked about organ trade !

ICJ, you are delusional. Majority of the world does not recognise Kosovo and even the Albanians know it, except you it seems.
Why don't you start making a list of yes and nos and see what you get?
(Peggy, 22 May 2011 02:06)

I said another thing... I said that the majority of the world countries (at least 109 of them) think that Kosovo is a country...

I did not say anything about recognitions...

Barroso is a joke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HB_L1cnCqs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSCoXdDX5IE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc3rtjj9VUU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyq7WRr_GPg

Ron, I was thinking exactly the same thing. How can Serbia have good neighbourly relations with itself?
Serbia has good neighbourly relation with ALL it's neighbours already and since Kosovo is a part of Serbia where is the problem?

EU membership isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway.

Can someone tell me why were still trying to join the EU? Do we want their economic problems on top of ours? What do you really think they are going to do for us? They want us to bend over backwards and give them our first born just to join. Do you believe that if we are "accepted" it will start raining gold coins? We are better off as we always have been, on our own. Why trade our pride for an empty hat.

Dear commenters, would you please enlighten me if "Kosovo is Serbia" what are those handsome uniformed guys doing at Merdare with AK47? What are those containers?

Are they boyscouts? Or maybe guerilla fighters? Why do they stop vehicles? Can all citizens of Kosovo freely move about the territory of Serbia, live, work there?

Perhaps, in reality, there is a border crossing? Within a sovereign contry???

but suggest neighbouring countries must be on good relations
(Principa, Gracanica, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia, 21 May 2011 16:38)

by the way, Barroso did not say "neighbouring countries must be on good relations". He said, according to B92, "good neighbourly relations" without mentioning "country" but "neighbours". So regardless of whether Serbia considers Kosovo a country, a province or a black hole, it should still have good relations with that neighbouring black hole... The rest of your forced "logic" to find "paradoxes" is then nil since it was based on a false citation.

Barroso is a joke.

[link]
[link]
[link]
[link]
(Zoran, 21 May 2011 21:50)


Exactly, and you are the real deal. But tell that to those sellouts in Belgrade.

Last time I checked, 75 out of 192 UN member states recognized Kosovo as country.
(Top, 22 May 2011 09:17)

Here is another one that can't read... I said the majority of the world countries think that Kosovo is a country.


I did not say that the majority of countries recognizes Kosovo. On the recognition your are correct, 75 have said they recognize, less than 20 have said they don't recognize, the rest we don't know since they have not said anything.

"I said another thing... I said that the majority of the world countries (at least 109 of them) think that Kosovo is a country...

I did not say anything about recognitions..."
(icj1, 22 May 2011 17:56)

Now countries are THINKING. And probably thinking loud, otherwise how can anyone know what they are thinking? This forum is getting funnier every day.

"by the way, Barroso did not say "neighbouring countries must be on good relations". He said, according to B92, "good neighbourly relations" without mentioning "country" but "neighbours". So regardless of whether Serbia considers Kosovo a country..."
(icj1, 21 May 2011 22:03)

Yes. Just like the talks are called 'Belgrade-Pristina dialogue' - no mention of countries. But one thing you got wrong: It's not (primarily) about if 'Serbia considers Kosovo a country' or not, but you must be aware that 5 out of 27 EU member states don't consider Kosovo a country, and so it's only normal that the EU as a whole is status neutral.

Now countries are THINKING. And probably thinking loud, otherwise how can anyone know what they are thinking? This forum is getting funnier every day.
(Top, 22 May 2011 19:10)

Very funny, indeed :) Countries have different ways to think... voting is one on them


Countries were called to vote on whether Kosovo should be admitted to WB and IMF. At least 109 of the countries (please READ: countries, not votes; we do know US has more votes than, say, Kosovo) said "yes" and with that they said "yes" Kosovo is a country because only countries can be WB and IMF members.

Now, is that recognition or not by this 109 countries ? I don't know... I'm leaving that to you, if you feel strongly. Either way it's fine with me.

"We are better off as we always have been, on our own
(Nikoli, 22 May 2011 09:25)

Exactly! That's why Serbia is the richest country in Europe with the highest GDP per capity, only topped by the independent dream state of Kosovo.

Mind that 1244 is still valid.
(Ron, 22 May 2011 06:20)

Yeas and I, too, have been reminding others over and over in these forums that 1244 is still valid. So I’m glad that I see some have started to understand that it is still valid.



And 1244 says that Kosovo is a Serbian province ruled by UN.
(Ron, 22 May 2011 06:20)

Let’s assume it is so…

So (i) Serbia is not in charge (UN is ruling); (ii) Kosovo’s UDI is in accordance with 1244. And 1244 will probably be in force for a very long time and thus (i) and (ii) will be there for the foreseeable future. Albanians are so happy with that they included 1244 in their declaration of independence and constitution like no other state in the world has done.



According to the ICJ (not binding) Kosovo's UDI does not violate 1244. Well, I do not agree.
(Ron, 22 May 2011 06:20)

It’s your right to not agree, but between your opinion and ICJ’s opinion, I’m not sure if there is any doubt what is more authoritative.



But even if it did not: that is only about the delcaration itself. That does not mean that Kosovo is a state. If it was a state then 1244 would be overruled. And 1244 is still in effect. So at least for the UN Kosovo is still a Serbian province.
(Ron, 22 May 2011 06:20)

No, if Kosovo is a state, 1244 is neither overruled nor confirmed because 1244 did not say that Kosovo cannot be a state in the future. Indeed, in resolution 1244 (1999) the Security Council did not reserve for itself the final determination of the situation in Kosovo and remained silent on the conditions for the final status of Kosovo.



You do not agree with that? Fine. Just let Kosovo apply for UN membership! And UEFA? And EU? And NATO?
(Ron, 22 May 2011 06:20)

Not sure what agreeing with you or not has to do with UN membership, UEFA, EU, etc… None of these proves independence ! Let me know if you need examples…

I did not say that the majority of countries recognizes Kosovo. On the recognition your are correct, 75 have said they recognize, less than 20 have said they don't recognize, the rest we don't know since they have not said anything.
(icj1, 22 May 2011 18:22)
==============================

How desperate are you people to believe this garbage? How many times do you have to be told that unless people say YES, it definitely a NO?
Try conducting business in those countries and see how many have recognised you.

Until you get a YES you have nothing.

How desperate are you people to believe this garbage? How many times do you have to be told that unless people say YES, it definitely a NO?
(Peggy, 22 May 2011 23:40)

This is the first time I hear it, probably because most of the people I speak with are normal and when they say YES, they mean YES, when they say NO, they mean NO. When they have not said anything, only they know what they really think. I’m not inside their brain.

But if you are inside other people's brain, pleeeaaaase illuminate us and bring proof of what they think.

Exactly! That's why Serbia is the richest country in Europe with the highest GDP per capity, only topped by the independent dream state of Kosovo.
(Top, 22 May 2011 14:11)
============================

Actually, you are not very funny at all. I'm sure you can come up with a some EU countries which are doing worse than Serbia if you really tried.
Attempts at humour like this don't do you any service at all, since I know you are more clued in than this.