Serbia marks WW2 Victory Day, Europe Day

Soviet losses in WW2 look like this :

Total – 27 mln
Combat – 10,5 mln
Partisans – 3,5 mln
Civilian – 13 mln
Prisoners and prisoners of war – 6 mln
Destroyed cities – 1710
Destroyed villages – 70 000
Destroyed plants , factories , mines ect. - 32 000
Destroyed agricultural (kolhoz) units – 100 000
Economical losses exceeded all Europeans including Germany and Austria.

Serbia also has got it own statistics. From my personal point of view outside the USSR Yugoslavia was our number one continental ally. In Europe it has suffered more combat losses than the USA and Britain to say nothing of the rest. http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ruwiki/236717 The figures in the link consider the big losses USA suffered in the Pacific and Polish losses within Wermacht which were twice as big as those suffered from the Germans and the Italians. Also the figures include China that as not a partner in WW2. They just conducted a civil war now and then uniting against the Japanese occupants.

Yugoslavia was the only country whose combat losses (killed , wounded and imprisoned) were much bigger than those of the civilians. Serbs rebelled against Hitler in spring 1941 when the USSR was an “ally” of the Reich-3 i.e. 3-4 years before partisan movement started to appear in other European countries. Because after WW2 some nations were saved from the Nurnberg Tribunal I guess Croats are not considered in the link.

But Serbs have a lot of things to be proud of. Instead of following the German Syndrome of some permanent guilt imposed on Serbia it should stick to Russia as the only plot against rewriting the history of WW2. Celebrating the Victory on May 9 Serbs make a good symbolic gesture in favour of Russia. Thank you for everything and my best regards and congratulations !

"if US and Candian forces did not land in Normandy...1945 would be the end of soviet union and jugoslavia..."

iliri

Well, they did land in Normandie so instead of the end of russia and Jugoslavia we saw the end of people like you. THANK GOD!

May all the victims of the nazis and albanian aggression rest in peace.
Congratulations to the Serbian freedomfighters during WW2 as well as today.

I don't understand sth though, in 1939 we asked Jugoslavija and Greece for help against fascist Italy, the telegrams were officially transmitted, and not even a response was transmitted back...now Serbs try to take all the merit. Typical slavo-communist propaganda. We warned them, but they did not listen, stupidity has a price, if jevgoslavs and greeks helped us at first place, Italy would have never stepped foot on balkans...of course, Jugoslavia until 1941 was negotiating wih Germany to become an axis member...still, both Jugoslavija did not contribute in the fight against fascism as much as Albania , after all ,jugoslav people were more busy killing each other than fighting the germans, Germany had an easy job in Jugoslavia, such a big country to be invaded in less than 24 hours, even Italy took much longer to invade Albania than Germany to invade Jugoslavia, we were the ones to denounce Italy and warn England about a certain war in the international arena 6 months before the war in poland started, but England and France were hoping for an agreement, so Albania was expandable back then. Germany is to blame as well, they betrayed us. Germany had assured our king that they would assure our sovreignity in case Italy enterd balkans but they didn't. If Germany, instead of attacking Poland , attacked those italian traitors, would probaly have more chances in winning the world war, better have more enemies than a weak friend. We were the ones to saboutage many italian caravans and infrastructural projects when Italy attacked Greece. Still in history no books mentions that Albanian resistance was very active against italy, both nationalists and communists joined their forces against italians, Albania, was among few countries,in which red army or the allied army never stepped in and actually was liberated with her own effort, ut of course we had our own civil war, thanks to Tito, English and russians... we actually helped Tito in Kosovo and Bosnia...and what was the reward? Albanians getting massacred in 1945 in Kosovo and Montenegro... Germany is to blame though, because they were stupid, they started the war to soon, communism would have failed sooner or later, and when it did, Germany would merely march all the way to Japan without facing resistance... on the other side USA was neutral. If Axis won, the life would be much better, no communism, no french, no slavs etc ... 9 of may is the catastrophe of European civilisation, now we have french that are not actually french any more, england is like Kalkuta or Islamabad..etc

ANd please, spare that who suffered more during ww2, we don't care...actually russians mostly killed their own. Jugoslavs killed their own as well, Jugoslavia was a mess , on one side tito, on the other side ustase, on the other other side cetnics, on the other other other side the serbian ss, etc ....if US and Candian forces did not land in Normandy...1945 would be the end of soviet union and jugoslavia...

I wish to remind people about ww2 in the balkans: memebers of each and every ethnicity fought on each and every side, and believe me, there were more than 2 sides. and it was so bloody, so evil. but of course i support all those who fought against fascism since that was by far the primary evil. for THOSE men and women (and even children), whether in present-day bosnia, croatia, albania, kosova, serbia, montenegro, macedonia -- for those folks we are forever grateful.

and for all those who personally helped to save my fellow jews (the few that were saved) we are forever grateful.

as for tadic and his ilk trying to score the usual propaganda points fr ww2, he can go fly a kite.

Meanwhile the helsinki committe and their colleagues are circulating a petition, recalling the fight ag. fascism, and remembering 2 different conc camps -- one near belgrade, one deep in so-called republika srpska (omarska.) and the fate of both. and the need for us to remember, and to tell the truth, not just the usual nationalist propaganda. check out the petition, and feel free to sign:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?9maj&551

and now, once again to my, um, highly esteemed colleagues at b-92. i know that many of you are young, as i just observed outside of yr headquarters when we were in blgd. (prove it!!) i know you have a legacy of commie-nism and nationalist-socialism, and whatever you call the regime now. BUT -- what is to stop you from occasionally checking out the dissident sites (like helsinki) and reporting news and developments, for ex. this petition? why does it take an outsider (dissident) to do this here? you seem to have the energy to do everything else, like censoring/ "editing" dissidents, minorities while publishing every personal attack and anti-albanian slur ever forwarded; you seem to have the energy to push and promote the marty SMEAR report, 3 x per day!! and watch the ensuing hysteria, which you have promoted... you seem to have the energy for lots of things, and yet to report on any dissent seems just too much to ask. except for that one time when sonia crossed the iron curtain and made her speech to the EU -- that was mentioned. once in 3 years ain't a good track record.

catch my drift?

but always my respect to that handful of hearty, courageous journalists there (and in other repressive countries) who are determined to tell the truth and have to go in hiding because of it. my heart goes out to you all.

thanks. tung roberto frisco

iliri, 9 May 2011

1 / “ … in 1939 we asked Jugoslavija and Greece for help against fascist Italy … not even a response was transmitted back ... Jugoslavia until 1941 was negotiating wih Germany …”
*** You answer your own questions cause before the Chetnics rebelled in mid 1941 it was quite a different state ! People are not responsible for their elites. Also I would not like irritate people who believe that anything Serbian is always worse than Hitler and Mussolini. So I said almost nothing that Serbs tribute 90% to the Yugoslavian resistance.

2 / “ … Jugoslavija did not contribute in the fight against fascism as much as Albania …”
*** May 9 is a nice day to celebrate it with good Rakia but if so best if you sustain from making funny and risky statements. I also like to joke but there are things people take too serious. You can tell this How I won The War Story in a US chart where they have no idea where Albania is and on which of the sides the USSR fought. But not here on B92.

3 / “ … jugoslav people were more busy killing each other than fighting the germans “
*** Here I can partly agree cause it was not a problem of only Yugoslavia. It happened in all countries occupied or directly involved to the WW2. With not a single exclusion. It was a tragedy of the Poles , the Russians , the Albanians ect. As you confessed lower “of course we had our own civil war” Concerning Serbs what you mean was just a conflict between the two great partisan armies. But as a whole with quite a few exclusions Serbs fought only on one side.

4 / “ … Germany had an easy job in Jugoslavia “
*** Good joke ! Now tell it to the Germans , the Austrians , the Hungarians , the Croats , the Bulgarians and the 6 Italian divisions imprisoned at the Adriatic.

5 / “ … Germany is to blame as well, they betrayed us” … “Germany is to blame though, because they were stupid, they started the war too soon”
*** Don’t make wrong stakes !

6 / “ … no books mentions that Albanian resistance was very active against italy”
*** Maybe there’s nothing to write home about ?

7 / “ … actually was liberated with her own effort “
*** This I agree. But I would also like to see how you could have set yourselves free without the Soviets.

8 / “ … If Axis won, the life would be much better”
*** In my country after such a statement your life would cost nothing.

9 / “ … if US and Candian forces did not land in Normandy...1945 would be the end of soviet union and jugoslavia”
*** After Kiev city had been set free in November 1943 President Roosevelt noticed “If the things run the same way next spring the Russians will need no Second Front to enter Berlin.” In 1943 the Germans sent to the East 75 divisions and in March 1945 they stopped any resistance in the West sending all the troops to the USSR.

P.S. Very personal – I hate any sort of prostitution on blood !

roberto frisco said, "and now, once again to my, um, highly esteemed colleagues at b-92"

HIGHLY ESTEEMED COLLEAGUES??? Gee, I thought roberto was a middle school employee.

Fiction writing is great, you can make up almost anything.

May all the victims of the nazis and albanian aggression rest in peace.
Congratulations to the Serbian freedomfighters during WW2 as well as today.
(MikeC, 9 May 2011 17:12) You forgot about the innocent civilian victims of Serb Fascist's Četnik's MikeC. Your welcome MikeC Croatians composed 37 of the 80 partisan divisions and were led by Croatians when the Croatians made up only 25% of the Yugo population at that time.

''6 / “ … no books mentions that Albanian resistance was very active against italy”
*** Maybe there’s nothing to write home about ? ''

It is more because of 50 year isolation of Albania by Hoxha, but it is in no one's interest to advertise Albanian resistance to Italy, because mostly it was the royalist and nationalists guerrilas that started the resistance, Hoxha was nothing back then, and no one wants to know how allegedly axis partners were the first to fight fascism...Hoxha came out of nothing, the english supported tito, and tito's guy, hoxha, Albanian partizans took no help from soviet army, all came from English planes, and it was mainly winter coats, boots and very little guns...back then we needed guns not stuff to wear... english help was a joke....also , the allies sold out the nationalists in Albania, probaly because the situation in greece was more critical...actually, Hoxha in the end got popular support because of the fact that Balli Kombtar joined the germans.

Well in Albanian civil war in 1943-45, in total, five thousand nationalists, priests, imams and royalist were round up....civilians were not touched, who got involved with politics and religion, got a bullet in the head, that is how communists deal with adversaries basicly , the nationalsit on the other hand were softer with communists, they did not allow a single execution of Albanian blood, communists were held in prisons as the nationaists believed that when everything ended good, the communists would change their minds.... but in yugoslavia, serbs and croats slaughtered each other and involve other ethnicies in the proccess, actually serbs blame croats, but what about thousands of croats killed during jugoslav kingdom by serb secret agents?....Balli Kombtar in Kosovo did not kill or kick innocent serbs out...serbs who lived in Kosovo before 1924 were not touched a single hair, and Balli Kombtar in Kosovo joined the Germans only after cetnics burned hundreds of Albanian villages to ground and massacred thousands of Albanians.... but as i said before Balli kombtar or the National Front lost ground in ALbania, because the ordinary Albanians had no idea what serbs had been doing in Kosovo since 1913...

I m not either nationalist nor communist, but it is a matter of survival after all, slavs are to much expanded in Europe...Germans could have balanced the situation, they failed. I m not a fan of germans neither.

« … the english supported tito, and tito's guy, hoxha … Albanian partizans took no help from soviet army, all came from English planes…wear... english help was a joke....»

*** I have to remind you that 3 out of 4 Germans were killed , wounded and imprisoned by the Great Soviet Army. Also it may be of your interest to know that in WW2 Britain suffered 7 times lower losses than those in WW1. There’s no other such precedent and it became possible because they supported all rivals of the Axis including the USSR and Yugoslavia. Maybe it happened in Albania too. But Albanian role in the Great Victory was rather symbolic. Once I heard that Enver Hoja commanded 20 000 partisans which cannot be compared with 400 000 of Tito’s Army in 1944 and 800 000 in 1945. Vuk Drajkovic also could gather upto 150 000 of his Cetnics. So I take my hat off every time Serbian Partisans are mentioned. They saved many lives in the USSR and other countries. I am very sorry if what you say concerning the Cetnics is true. But something tells me it is not the whole of the truth. In such cases every side has it’s own arguments and facts. So to go forward you have to stop looking back.

P.S. I have just returned from the Salute we have every May 9. It’s a great and uniting show ! It’s a big pity you still sit on two chairs and have mixed feelings on such a Great Day ! Believe me you rob yourself only because Serbs fought on this side …

I m not either nationalist nor communist, but it is a matter of survival after all, slavs are to much expanded in Europe...Germans could have balanced the situation, they failed. I m not a fan of germans neither.
(iliri, 9 May 2011 18:36)

So your not a nationalist but you dream of Greater Albania and your sympathetic to Nazi Germany?

Roberto and Iliri-you guys should remember that 90% of albanians were illiterate until 1982,so please stop with your grandad`s stories..you have no history to speak of and only time you albanians celebrate is when someone else fights the wars for you.
What albanians are teaching kids in school is being investigated by neighboring countries,so leave these serious topics you have nothing to contribute..or nothing smart..

Lenard

When I wrote about the Serbian freedomfighters I wasn't refering to the partizans. Communism does not equal freedom.

Iliri - you have got to be kidding... "too many slavs in europe", "better if the axis had won"? The Nazi progam was to exterminate the slavs right up to the urals... that would have meant tens of millions wiped out and you cheer this on???
That is so offensive, I just don't know where to start.
Shame on you Iliri.
Apologies to our russian friends here especially - let no one doubt that without their HUGE sacrifice, the word "Serbia" would only be in history books now. Serbs and all other normal peoples will not forget.
живым бойцам великой отечественной войны почёт и честь. А павшим - слава вечная!
(sorry if my spelling is a bit off - my Russian is a little rusty!)

You forgot about the innocent civilian victims of Serb Fascist's Četnik's MikeC. Your welcome MikeC Croatians composed 37 of the 80 partisan divisions and were led by Croatians when the Croatians made up only 25% of the Yugo population at that time.
(Lenard, 9 May 2011 19:01)
--
Well there you have it, Lenard admitting his communist roots. It was the communists that declared Mihailović and the Četniks collaborators but the US and UK know very well that he supported the allies and saved over 500 allied airmen right up to the end, many times at great expense to Serbian lives. He was awarded the Legion of Merit and Četniks today march on ANZAC day in Australia.

The US and British later realised they made a mistake supporting Tito. Mihailović will be rehabilitated once the old communists (Tadic and co) get the boot.

Read about Operation Halyard and you will realise that even after the US and Brits dropped support for Mihailović he still remained loyal to them. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Halyard

Typical slavo-communist propaganda...still, both Jugoslavija did not contribute in the fight against fascism as much as Albania , after all ,jugoslav people were more busy killing each other than fighting the germans, (iliri, 9 May 2011 14:16)

Albania was not even invaded in 1941, King Zog went running to Greece and Italy was inside Albanian within days. Yugoslavia was taken over within 14 days because the Yugoslav government was torn apart as Macek pulled support and mostly Croatian army units refused to fight and deserted. The Germans took close to 500,000 Yugoslav prisoners in the fist week. However, both Tito and Mihailovic amassed a sizable guirella force that held Gereman divisions, to the point where Germans starting executing innocent civilians for every German killed.

As for the Albanian contribution, one fact speaks louder than words. Albania declared war on the United States of America and the allies in 1941 with the Nazi axis and proceeded to invade Greece with Italy. Serbia even under Nazi occupation and under Nedic never declared war on the allies and never supplied troops to the eastern front unlike Albania, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, and Slovenia who lie in blood after the heroic Russian defense of Stalingrad and Leningrad.

commentator, 10 May

After two Josephs failed to take us apart nothing can split us. Too much is still uniting us including the price our grandpas were ready to pay for the Great Victory. Anyway thank you for your comment and be sure НА ВРАГОВ ВСЕГДА НАЙДЕМ УПРАВУ , КАК БЫ ИХ СУДЬБА НИ БЕРЕГЛА !!!

''Serbia even under Nazi occupation and under Nedic never declared war on the allies and never supplied troops to the eastern front unlike Albania, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, and Slovenia who lie in blood after the heroic Russian defense of Stalingrad and Leningrad.
(Jugoslavija, 10 May 2011 21:08) ''

Yeah, and Bin Laden visted Albania in 1986. This forum never rests to amase me...Albania never sent any volunteer to Stalingrad or anywhere outside Albanian lands, in the agreement signed by the Regency and Germany, Albania was suposed to allow the German troops move through our territory, but Albania would keep a neutral stance towards the war, which means that it would attack anyone which attacked its territory, which is a controversial agreement considering the fact the mere presence of german troops in Albania disputed the ''neutrality'' but the hidden purpose of the agreement was that Albanians would not have to fight in foreign territory.

Soviet losses in WW2 look like this :

Total – 27 mln
Combat – 10,5 mln
Partisans – 3,5 mln
Civilian – 13 mln
Prisoners and prisoners of war – 6 mln
Destroyed cities – 1710
Destroyed villages – 70 000
Destroyed plants , factories , mines ect. - 32 000
Destroyed agricultural (kolhoz) units – 100 000
Economical losses exceeded all Europeans including Germany and Austria.

Serbia also has got it own statistics. From my personal point of view outside the USSR Yugoslavia was our number one continental ally. In Europe it has suffered more combat losses than the USA and Britain to say nothing of the rest. http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ruwiki/236717 The figures in the link consider the big losses USA suffered in the Pacific and Polish losses within Wermacht which were twice as big as those suffered from the Germans and the Italians. Also the figures include China that as not a partner in WW2. They just conducted a civil war now and then uniting against the Japanese occupants.

Yugoslavia was the only country whose combat losses (killed , wounded and imprisoned) were much bigger than those of the civilians. Serbs rebelled against Hitler in spring 1941 when the USSR was an “ally” of the Reich-3 i.e. 3-4 years before partisan movement started to appear in other European countries. Because after WW2 some nations were saved from the Nurnberg Tribunal I guess Croats are not considered in the link.

But Serbs have a lot of things to be proud of. Instead of following the German Syndrome of some permanent guilt imposed on Serbia it should stick to Russia as the only plot against rewriting the history of WW2. Celebrating the Victory on May 9 Serbs make a good symbolic gesture in favour of Russia. Thank you for everything and my best regards and congratulations !

I wish to remind people about ww2 in the balkans: memebers of each and every ethnicity fought on each and every side, and believe me, there were more than 2 sides. and it was so bloody, so evil. but of course i support all those who fought against fascism since that was by far the primary evil. for THOSE men and women (and even children), whether in present-day bosnia, croatia, albania, kosova, serbia, montenegro, macedonia -- for those folks we are forever grateful.

and for all those who personally helped to save my fellow jews (the few that were saved) we are forever grateful.

as for tadic and his ilk trying to score the usual propaganda points fr ww2, he can go fly a kite.

Meanwhile the helsinki committe and their colleagues are circulating a petition, recalling the fight ag. fascism, and remembering 2 different conc camps -- one near belgrade, one deep in so-called republika srpska (omarska.) and the fate of both. and the need for us to remember, and to tell the truth, not just the usual nationalist propaganda. check out the petition, and feel free to sign:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?9maj&551

and now, once again to my, um, highly esteemed colleagues at b-92. i know that many of you are young, as i just observed outside of yr headquarters when we were in blgd. (prove it!!) i know you have a legacy of commie-nism and nationalist-socialism, and whatever you call the regime now. BUT -- what is to stop you from occasionally checking out the dissident sites (like helsinki) and reporting news and developments, for ex. this petition? why does it take an outsider (dissident) to do this here? you seem to have the energy to do everything else, like censoring/ "editing" dissidents, minorities while publishing every personal attack and anti-albanian slur ever forwarded; you seem to have the energy to push and promote the marty SMEAR report, 3 x per day!! and watch the ensuing hysteria, which you have promoted... you seem to have the energy for lots of things, and yet to report on any dissent seems just too much to ask. except for that one time when sonia crossed the iron curtain and made her speech to the EU -- that was mentioned. once in 3 years ain't a good track record.

catch my drift?

but always my respect to that handful of hearty, courageous journalists there (and in other repressive countries) who are determined to tell the truth and have to go in hiding because of it. my heart goes out to you all.

thanks. tung roberto frisco

I don't understand sth though, in 1939 we asked Jugoslavija and Greece for help against fascist Italy, the telegrams were officially transmitted, and not even a response was transmitted back...now Serbs try to take all the merit. Typical slavo-communist propaganda. We warned them, but they did not listen, stupidity has a price, if jevgoslavs and greeks helped us at first place, Italy would have never stepped foot on balkans...of course, Jugoslavia until 1941 was negotiating wih Germany to become an axis member...still, both Jugoslavija did not contribute in the fight against fascism as much as Albania , after all ,jugoslav people were more busy killing each other than fighting the germans, Germany had an easy job in Jugoslavia, such a big country to be invaded in less than 24 hours, even Italy took much longer to invade Albania than Germany to invade Jugoslavia, we were the ones to denounce Italy and warn England about a certain war in the international arena 6 months before the war in poland started, but England and France were hoping for an agreement, so Albania was expandable back then. Germany is to blame as well, they betrayed us. Germany had assured our king that they would assure our sovreignity in case Italy enterd balkans but they didn't. If Germany, instead of attacking Poland , attacked those italian traitors, would probaly have more chances in winning the world war, better have more enemies than a weak friend. We were the ones to saboutage many italian caravans and infrastructural projects when Italy attacked Greece. Still in history no books mentions that Albanian resistance was very active against italy, both nationalists and communists joined their forces against italians, Albania, was among few countries,in which red army or the allied army never stepped in and actually was liberated with her own effort, ut of course we had our own civil war, thanks to Tito, English and russians... we actually helped Tito in Kosovo and Bosnia...and what was the reward? Albanians getting massacred in 1945 in Kosovo and Montenegro... Germany is to blame though, because they were stupid, they started the war to soon, communism would have failed sooner or later, and when it did, Germany would merely march all the way to Japan without facing resistance... on the other side USA was neutral. If Axis won, the life would be much better, no communism, no french, no slavs etc ... 9 of may is the catastrophe of European civilisation, now we have french that are not actually french any more, england is like Kalkuta or Islamabad..etc

ANd please, spare that who suffered more during ww2, we don't care...actually russians mostly killed their own. Jugoslavs killed their own as well, Jugoslavia was a mess , on one side tito, on the other side ustase, on the other other side cetnics, on the other other other side the serbian ss, etc ....if US and Candian forces did not land in Normandy...1945 would be the end of soviet union and jugoslavia...

"if US and Candian forces did not land in Normandy...1945 would be the end of soviet union and jugoslavia..."

iliri

Well, they did land in Normandie so instead of the end of russia and Jugoslavia we saw the end of people like you. THANK GOD!

May all the victims of the nazis and albanian aggression rest in peace.
Congratulations to the Serbian freedomfighters during WW2 as well as today.

''6 / “ … no books mentions that Albanian resistance was very active against italy”
*** Maybe there’s nothing to write home about ? ''

It is more because of 50 year isolation of Albania by Hoxha, but it is in no one's interest to advertise Albanian resistance to Italy, because mostly it was the royalist and nationalists guerrilas that started the resistance, Hoxha was nothing back then, and no one wants to know how allegedly axis partners were the first to fight fascism...Hoxha came out of nothing, the english supported tito, and tito's guy, hoxha, Albanian partizans took no help from soviet army, all came from English planes, and it was mainly winter coats, boots and very little guns...back then we needed guns not stuff to wear... english help was a joke....also , the allies sold out the nationalists in Albania, probaly because the situation in greece was more critical...actually, Hoxha in the end got popular support because of the fact that Balli Kombtar joined the germans.

Well in Albanian civil war in 1943-45, in total, five thousand nationalists, priests, imams and royalist were round up....civilians were not touched, who got involved with politics and religion, got a bullet in the head, that is how communists deal with adversaries basicly , the nationalsit on the other hand were softer with communists, they did not allow a single execution of Albanian blood, communists were held in prisons as the nationaists believed that when everything ended good, the communists would change their minds.... but in yugoslavia, serbs and croats slaughtered each other and involve other ethnicies in the proccess, actually serbs blame croats, but what about thousands of croats killed during jugoslav kingdom by serb secret agents?....Balli Kombtar in Kosovo did not kill or kick innocent serbs out...serbs who lived in Kosovo before 1924 were not touched a single hair, and Balli Kombtar in Kosovo joined the Germans only after cetnics burned hundreds of Albanian villages to ground and massacred thousands of Albanians.... but as i said before Balli kombtar or the National Front lost ground in ALbania, because the ordinary Albanians had no idea what serbs had been doing in Kosovo since 1913...

I m not either nationalist nor communist, but it is a matter of survival after all, slavs are to much expanded in Europe...Germans could have balanced the situation, they failed. I m not a fan of germans neither.

iliri, 9 May 2011

1 / “ … in 1939 we asked Jugoslavija and Greece for help against fascist Italy … not even a response was transmitted back ... Jugoslavia until 1941 was negotiating wih Germany …”
*** You answer your own questions cause before the Chetnics rebelled in mid 1941 it was quite a different state ! People are not responsible for their elites. Also I would not like irritate people who believe that anything Serbian is always worse than Hitler and Mussolini. So I said almost nothing that Serbs tribute 90% to the Yugoslavian resistance.

2 / “ … Jugoslavija did not contribute in the fight against fascism as much as Albania …”
*** May 9 is a nice day to celebrate it with good Rakia but if so best if you sustain from making funny and risky statements. I also like to joke but there are things people take too serious. You can tell this How I won The War Story in a US chart where they have no idea where Albania is and on which of the sides the USSR fought. But not here on B92.

3 / “ … jugoslav people were more busy killing each other than fighting the germans “
*** Here I can partly agree cause it was not a problem of only Yugoslavia. It happened in all countries occupied or directly involved to the WW2. With not a single exclusion. It was a tragedy of the Poles , the Russians , the Albanians ect. As you confessed lower “of course we had our own civil war” Concerning Serbs what you mean was just a conflict between the two great partisan armies. But as a whole with quite a few exclusions Serbs fought only on one side.

4 / “ … Germany had an easy job in Jugoslavia “
*** Good joke ! Now tell it to the Germans , the Austrians , the Hungarians , the Croats , the Bulgarians and the 6 Italian divisions imprisoned at the Adriatic.

5 / “ … Germany is to blame as well, they betrayed us” … “Germany is to blame though, because they were stupid, they started the war too soon”
*** Don’t make wrong stakes !

6 / “ … no books mentions that Albanian resistance was very active against italy”
*** Maybe there’s nothing to write home about ?

7 / “ … actually was liberated with her own effort “
*** This I agree. But I would also like to see how you could have set yourselves free without the Soviets.

8 / “ … If Axis won, the life would be much better”
*** In my country after such a statement your life would cost nothing.

9 / “ … if US and Candian forces did not land in Normandy...1945 would be the end of soviet union and jugoslavia”
*** After Kiev city had been set free in November 1943 President Roosevelt noticed “If the things run the same way next spring the Russians will need no Second Front to enter Berlin.” In 1943 the Germans sent to the East 75 divisions and in March 1945 they stopped any resistance in the West sending all the troops to the USSR.

P.S. Very personal – I hate any sort of prostitution on blood !

May all the victims of the nazis and albanian aggression rest in peace.
Congratulations to the Serbian freedomfighters during WW2 as well as today.
(MikeC, 9 May 2011 17:12) You forgot about the innocent civilian victims of Serb Fascist's Četnik's MikeC. Your welcome MikeC Croatians composed 37 of the 80 partisan divisions and were led by Croatians when the Croatians made up only 25% of the Yugo population at that time.

« … the english supported tito, and tito's guy, hoxha … Albanian partizans took no help from soviet army, all came from English planes…wear... english help was a joke....»

*** I have to remind you that 3 out of 4 Germans were killed , wounded and imprisoned by the Great Soviet Army. Also it may be of your interest to know that in WW2 Britain suffered 7 times lower losses than those in WW1. There’s no other such precedent and it became possible because they supported all rivals of the Axis including the USSR and Yugoslavia. Maybe it happened in Albania too. But Albanian role in the Great Victory was rather symbolic. Once I heard that Enver Hoja commanded 20 000 partisans which cannot be compared with 400 000 of Tito’s Army in 1944 and 800 000 in 1945. Vuk Drajkovic also could gather upto 150 000 of his Cetnics. So I take my hat off every time Serbian Partisans are mentioned. They saved many lives in the USSR and other countries. I am very sorry if what you say concerning the Cetnics is true. But something tells me it is not the whole of the truth. In such cases every side has it’s own arguments and facts. So to go forward you have to stop looking back.

P.S. I have just returned from the Salute we have every May 9. It’s a great and uniting show ! It’s a big pity you still sit on two chairs and have mixed feelings on such a Great Day ! Believe me you rob yourself only because Serbs fought on this side …

Roberto and Iliri-you guys should remember that 90% of albanians were illiterate until 1982,so please stop with your grandad`s stories..you have no history to speak of and only time you albanians celebrate is when someone else fights the wars for you.
What albanians are teaching kids in school is being investigated by neighboring countries,so leave these serious topics you have nothing to contribute..or nothing smart..

You forgot about the innocent civilian victims of Serb Fascist's Četnik's MikeC. Your welcome MikeC Croatians composed 37 of the 80 partisan divisions and were led by Croatians when the Croatians made up only 25% of the Yugo population at that time.
(Lenard, 9 May 2011 19:01)
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Well there you have it, Lenard admitting his communist roots. It was the communists that declared Mihailović and the Četniks collaborators but the US and UK know very well that he supported the allies and saved over 500 allied airmen right up to the end, many times at great expense to Serbian lives. He was awarded the Legion of Merit and Četniks today march on ANZAC day in Australia.

The US and British later realised they made a mistake supporting Tito. Mihailović will be rehabilitated once the old communists (Tadic and co) get the boot.

Read about Operation Halyard and you will realise that even after the US and Brits dropped support for Mihailović he still remained loyal to them. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Halyard

I m not either nationalist nor communist, but it is a matter of survival after all, slavs are to much expanded in Europe...Germans could have balanced the situation, they failed. I m not a fan of germans neither.
(iliri, 9 May 2011 18:36)

So your not a nationalist but you dream of Greater Albania and your sympathetic to Nazi Germany?

Lenard

When I wrote about the Serbian freedomfighters I wasn't refering to the partizans. Communism does not equal freedom.

roberto frisco said, "and now, once again to my, um, highly esteemed colleagues at b-92"

HIGHLY ESTEEMED COLLEAGUES??? Gee, I thought roberto was a middle school employee.

Fiction writing is great, you can make up almost anything.

Iliri - you have got to be kidding... "too many slavs in europe", "better if the axis had won"? The Nazi progam was to exterminate the slavs right up to the urals... that would have meant tens of millions wiped out and you cheer this on???
That is so offensive, I just don't know where to start.
Shame on you Iliri.
Apologies to our russian friends here especially - let no one doubt that without their HUGE sacrifice, the word "Serbia" would only be in history books now. Serbs and all other normal peoples will not forget.
живым бойцам великой отечественной войны почёт и честь. А павшим - слава вечная!
(sorry if my spelling is a bit off - my Russian is a little rusty!)

commentator, 10 May

After two Josephs failed to take us apart nothing can split us. Too much is still uniting us including the price our grandpas were ready to pay for the Great Victory. Anyway thank you for your comment and be sure НА ВРАГОВ ВСЕГДА НАЙДЕМ УПРАВУ , КАК БЫ ИХ СУДЬБА НИ БЕРЕГЛА !!!

Typical slavo-communist propaganda...still, both Jugoslavija did not contribute in the fight against fascism as much as Albania , after all ,jugoslav people were more busy killing each other than fighting the germans, (iliri, 9 May 2011 14:16)

Albania was not even invaded in 1941, King Zog went running to Greece and Italy was inside Albanian within days. Yugoslavia was taken over within 14 days because the Yugoslav government was torn apart as Macek pulled support and mostly Croatian army units refused to fight and deserted. The Germans took close to 500,000 Yugoslav prisoners in the fist week. However, both Tito and Mihailovic amassed a sizable guirella force that held Gereman divisions, to the point where Germans starting executing innocent civilians for every German killed.

As for the Albanian contribution, one fact speaks louder than words. Albania declared war on the United States of America and the allies in 1941 with the Nazi axis and proceeded to invade Greece with Italy. Serbia even under Nazi occupation and under Nedic never declared war on the allies and never supplied troops to the eastern front unlike Albania, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, and Slovenia who lie in blood after the heroic Russian defense of Stalingrad and Leningrad.

''Serbia even under Nazi occupation and under Nedic never declared war on the allies and never supplied troops to the eastern front unlike Albania, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, and Slovenia who lie in blood after the heroic Russian defense of Stalingrad and Leningrad.
(Jugoslavija, 10 May 2011 21:08) ''

Yeah, and Bin Laden visted Albania in 1986. This forum never rests to amase me...Albania never sent any volunteer to Stalingrad or anywhere outside Albanian lands, in the agreement signed by the Regency and Germany, Albania was suposed to allow the German troops move through our territory, but Albania would keep a neutral stance towards the war, which means that it would attack anyone which attacked its territory, which is a controversial agreement considering the fact the mere presence of german troops in Albania disputed the ''neutrality'' but the hidden purpose of the agreement was that Albanians would not have to fight in foreign territory.