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Friday, 29.04.2011.

13:03

London: Crowds gather for royal wedding

Hundreds of thousands of people have gathered in London to take part in festivities as Britain's Prince William marries his girlfriend Kate Middleton.

Izvor: RFE/RL

London: Crowds gather for royal wedding IMAGE SOURCE
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29 Komentari

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"Also we're not practising double standards because the Scottish and Welsh don't want independence unlike the Kosovars.
(Ian, British Republic, 1 May 2011 13:37)"

You personally may not be practising double standards, but your government certainy is when it opposes independence referendums on its own turf only while supporting these referendums in other countries.

The relevant criterion here for double standards is NOT whether the Scots and Welsh want or don't want independence, the relevant criterion is whether London would genuinely allow them to hold these referendums.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"Haha so that's why you want the UK to split up, satisfaction for the break up of Yugoslavia and so that London loses it's veto power in the UNSC. Not going to happen mate, you keep on dreaming.

Also did Russia have to reapply for UN membership or UN membership or did they just continue the USSR's membership.

Cymru am Byth!
Alba deo!
(Ian, British Republic, 1 May 2011 12:22) "

Whether it will happen or not in the future remains to be seen. But I think I am making a correct guess on what really worrries London.

As for the USSR, it imploded BEFORE Yugoslavia did. Nobody at that time disputed Russia as successor to the USSR's seat -- my guess is that the West didn't see the need to that to a Russia that appeared greatly weakened then thanks in part to Yeltsin and his liquor. Putin was low profile and bidding his time at that point.

When the SFRY broke apart later however, a UN resolution was passed that barred its UN seat from being inherited by any of SFRY's former republics. Given that this was a later UN resolution, it should have priority over the USSR resolution as a precedent -- in the same way your country's legal equity supercedes your common laws should they be at variance with each other. Given the realpolitik of today, I wouldn't bet on Russia or China treating England with the same kid's glove that was dealt to Yeltsin. So I wouldn't be so complacent if I were an English person.

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

(lowe, 1 May 2011 02:18)

Also we're not practising double standards because the Scottish and Welsh don't want independence unlike the Kosovars.

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

Don’t forget that the UK is also likely to be seen to have ceased to exist as a country. England will not only be a much smaller country, she will probably have to apply for UN entry (taking the original Yugoslav case as a precedent). Don’t expect her to get past the Russian and Chinese vetoes anytime soon. And oops! She herself will also lose her veto power too! Her fig leaf as a “world power” would be removed forever …….. and THIS I think, rather than the mere technical unconstitutionality that you talked about, is the main reason why London practices its double standards on independence!
(lowe, 1 May 2011 02:18)

Haha so that's why you want the UK to split up, satisfaction for the break up of Yugoslavia and so that London loses it's veto power in the UNSC. Not going to happen mate, you keep on dreaming.

Also did Russia have to reapply for UN membership or UN membership or did they just continue the USSR's membership.

Cymru am Byth!
Alba deo!

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lowe

pre 13 godina

“Just to let you know I have had training in political campaigning and I've had lots of experince of it before. When I have campaigned for elections I've not recived such abuse, but the issue of independence and further autonomy in Wales is a very sensative topic as many people are radically opposed to such ideas. “

If you what you wrote is true, then it would be a humongous dent on the British reputation as a basically gracious society that many people elsewhere have about you guys. Of course you could have also have gone way overboard with your campaigning zeal and did not know when to back off when those people tell you to do so – in which case I think you basically deserved those tons of bricks that fell on you.


“Even though independence referendums in Scotland and Wales would be uncostitutional (this is why London is opposed to them), I would not be opposed to them. I think it is only fair that the people get to decide their own future. However I am very certain of the outcome if such referendums were to take place. What you have to realise is that Scotland and Wales are not in the Balkans. Everyone doesn't believe that they must be independent and that all ethnicities must live in one country together like the nationalist beliefs in the Balkans. “

As I implied to you earlier, then its high time your government stop practicing its despicable double standards about the independence issue for itself and other countries like Serbia.


“There has always been independence movements and there always will be, they've not grown in size in recent years they're pretty much the same as they were in the 1960s. “

That’s no excuse for forbidding the Scots or Welsh from holding their referendum if they should want to do so.


“Alex Salmond has already stated that if Scotland does ever achieve independence, Scotland will be in the EU; they'll keep the Queen as the head of state and they'll keep the Pound Stirling as the currency used in Scotland as long as the rest of Britain does. They also already have their own Rugby and Football teams, which are the two biggest sports in Scotland. So this begs the question, whats the point? and this is what many Scots believe. What many Scots want is a bigger Scottish national identity within the British identity as a whole. The same applies to the Welsh too. And I agree, they should have bigger national identity within the British national identity. Personally I believe Welsh should become an offical language of the UK.
(Ian, British Republic, 30 April 2011 23:20)”

Don’t forget that the UK is also likely to be seen to have ceased to exist as a country. England will not only be a much smaller country, she will probably have to apply for UN entry (taking the original Yugoslav case as a precedent). Don’t expect her to get past the Russian and Chinese vetoes anytime soon. And oops! She herself will also lose her veto power too! Her fig leaf as a “world power” would be removed forever …….. and THIS I think, rather than the mere technical unconstitutionality that you talked about, is the main reason why London practices its double standards on independence!

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

Well, notwithstanding your long, almost hysterical tirade (which I had to truncate for practical reason of not wasting space), the only way to really be sure would be to allow a free and fair referendum to settle the independence issue once and for all, right? My point was that if London is really so confident that independence will be rejected, then surely such referendums in Scotland and Wales serve to will democratic vindicate UK’s right to continued union once and for all.

I would respectfully suggest to you that the heavy abuse that you claimed to have got in Wales could indicate your lack of PR skills or your unsuitability for that job. I can’t imagine civilized people during peace time behaving as described by you when asked to democratically support (or not support) a cause – are you sure you are not embellishing the truth?

I didn’t state that Scotland will become independent immediately. But I believe the day will come when the Scots finally do decide to bolt the union and be their own bosses, and your British Republic will only hasten the arrival of that day! Salmond already appears to have 2018 in mind to do what Montenegro did back in 2006 -- with British support I must add.
(lowe, 30 April 2011 02:16)

Just to let you know I have had training in political campaigning and I've had lots of experince of it before. When I have campaigned for elections I've not recived such abuse, but the issue of independence and further autonomy in Wales is a very sensative topic as many people are radically opposed to such ideas.

Even though independence referendums in Scotland and Wales would be uncostitutional (this is why London is opposed to them), I would not be opposed to them. I think it is only fair that the people get to decide their own future. However I am very certain of the outcome if such referendums were to take place. What you have to realise is that Scotland and Wales are not in the Balkans. Everyone doesn't believe that they must be independent and that all ethnicities must live in one country together like the nationalist beliefs in the Balkans.

There has always been independence movements and there always will be, they've not grown in size in recent years they're pretty much the same as they were in the 1960s.

Alex Salmond has already stated that if Scotland does ever achieve independence, Scotland will be in the EU; they'll keep the Queen as the head of state and they'll keep the Pound Stirling as the currency used in Scotland as long as the rest of Britain does. They also already have their own Rugby and Football teams, which are the two biggest sports in Scotland. So this begs the question, whats the point? and this is what many Scots believe. What many Scots want is a bigger Scottish national identity within the British identity as a whole. The same applies to the Welsh too. And I agree, they should have bigger national identity within the British national identity. Personally I believe Welsh should become an offical language of the UK.

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wee kelpie

pre 13 godina

What a load of 'pish' :-))
All quiet on the Kosovo/Serbia front?
Struggling for attention are we and can't find a suitable thread!

As a brit who is unashamedly a 'mornarchist', yesterdays wedding was not only what one would expect from an experienced establishment, it also bode well for the future of the British Royal Family.

In Kate and Will I believe we finally have what QEII as been hoping for, a modern and vibrant couple who are not trapped in the past.

I, and many others in the UK, wish them well.

Republican mutterings in the UK is just that, mutterings. They have been around as long as I can remember, and before that also.

Remember, the last time Britian had any form of Republican ideas (Commonwealth under that autocratic vandal 'Cromwell') it was not long after that the crown was restored. And for good reason.

The prospect of engaging in another set of canvassing and voting for a President/Head of State type does not appeal to a lot of people.

If it ain't broke................

As for Wales and Scotland, the argument for Welsh independance could be supported, she was conquered after all. As for Scotland, well she sold her soul for Gold to join the Union, a contract is a contract :-))

Rule Brittania..............

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lowe

pre 13 godina

" I've said this before, if the majority of the Scottish or the Welsh want independence then I'm willing to support their independence movements. I'll support whatever the majority of their population supports and currently that is that they want to be apart of Britain.
(Ian, British Republic, 30 April 2011 00:49)"

Good. Now put your money where your mouth is and convince your recalcitrant government to be as enlightened as you.

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bganon

pre 13 godina

Peggy all we have is estimates, so its impossible to say how much exactly is generated. Some estimates claim that they are worth half a billion pounds each year to the British economy.

And whilst its true that the economies you mentioned have done well without their royal families, its also true that many of the people in countries like the US are obsessed with the royals and spend huge sums of money on visiting royal sites, buying souvenirs etc. Anybody who has lived or worked in central London can bear witness to that.

Yeah I find it a little silly that people get up at 3 in the morning to pave the streets for the slightest second glimpse of the 'royal couple', but thats their choice. And yes people should not really be obsessing about the lives of the royals, but rather think about putting bread on the table or how to improve themselves or the lives of their families. But hey these days the amount of garbage people obsess about / watch, the royal family sets a pretty good example. I also know that the royal family has raised a lot of money for charity which has surely saved many lives. Yes, of course cutting ribbons, making appearances and giving speeches is not hard work, but if it produces results, that is what I'm concerned with.

I'm confident that the British get more out of the royal family than they put it. I don't believe this used to be the case, but it is today.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"I love hearing weird balkans fantasies about the break-up of Britain.

project much?

or maybe it's some kind of impotent revenge fantasy.

or maybe it's a kind of "see, things are the same everywhere" soother.
(Danilo, 30 April 2011 07:36) "

You love hearing about the break-up of Britain? Then by all means visit B92 threads such as these .....We shall however have to agree to disagree about whether it will ultimately turn out to be fantasy or otherwise ...... and one doesn't have to hail from the Balkans to talk about a UK break-up -- I should know as I am living proof of someone completely outside the Balkans ...... by the way, have you finally uncovered the difference between the ICG and the ICJ? And this ain't no fantasy trivia!

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Danilo

pre 13 godina

I love hearing weird balkans fantasies about the break-up of Britain.

project much?

or maybe it's some kind of impotent revenge fantasy.

or maybe it's a kind of "see, things are the same everywhere" soother.

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Peggy

pre 13 godina

Pretty nasty comments so far. I wish them well. I don't doubt that there would be gala events such as this in Belgrade if the monarchy was restored. People need a little fantasy once in a while to briefly take them away from their ordinary lives.
(Patrik, 29 April 2011 15:15)
========================

I have no doubt that there would be the same in Belgrade too if monarchy was restored but I think it would be a waste of money to do that.
I believe we have come a long way from needed a king or a queen.
The problem with people is that they are all too ready to be distracted from every day lives. Doesn't solve anything and that is what they count on.

We can get distracted in other ways besides worshiping people who have done nothing for us but being born into a certain family by accident.

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Peggy

pre 13 godina

Bgannon wrote:


"I support the continuation of the British monarchy on a rational basis. I believe that the monarchy brings in more money in terms of tourism and trade for the UK, than it costs."
=============================

Please don't take this the wrong way. I have heard this argument from someone just the yesterday day at work so I get that some people believe this.
What figures do you base this on? Is this just a gut feeling or do you have some figures to back it up?

I personally don't think that monarchy is relevant today at all. Once upon a time monarchy did have their place as they actually ruled and even went to war for their country but today they have no power and are just window dressing.
I believe we have evolved and don't need them any longer. They certainly don't make me feel all warm and fuzzy because I can't see what purpose they have now except to look pretty and hold functions.
If you look around many countries are doing just fine without them. Take Germany for an example. They are doing very well and are not supporting a firm. France has done away with their monarchy a long time ago and they are doing just fine too. Many examples of how people have grown up and outgrown their monarchs.

Weddings don't come often enough to get people flocking to England to see them.

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion and an opinion based on emotion is also a good one but if it is made on a rational level like yours it awakens my curiosity about the figures that verify that.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

“Let me give you example, I live in Wales and I'm a member of the Welsh Liberal Democrats. It was party policy to support further powers for the Sennedd. I was campaigning in favour of the Yes vote in March this year for the Referendum which was to allow the Sennedd in Cardiff Bay to pass legislation without it been approved by Westminster beforehand, in a nutshell bypassing Westminster. I received a lot of abuse from doing so because the no supporters were radically against giving Wales any more powers. ……………


As to your link, Alex Salmond won't be First Minister of Scotland come 6 May and he never really was with his minority government of 31% of the seats. His 5 minutes of almost being something are up this time next week. And the SNP will not win the 2015 Scottish parliament election either.


(Ian, British Republic, 29 April 2011 22:34)”

Well, notwithstanding your long, almost hysterical tirade (which I had to truncate for practical reason of not wasting space), the only way to really be sure would be to allow a free and fair referendum to settle the independence issue once and for all, right? My point was that if London is really so confident that independence will be rejected, then surely such referendums in Scotland and Wales serve to will democratic vindicate UK’s right to continued union once and for all.

I would respectfully suggest to you that the heavy abuse that you claimed to have got in Wales could indicate your lack of PR skills or your unsuitability for that job. I can’t imagine civilized people during peace time behaving as described by you when asked to democratically support (or not support) a cause – are you sure you are not embellishing the truth?

I didn’t state that Scotland will become independent immediately. But I believe the day will come when the Scots finally do decide to bolt the union and be their own bosses, and your British Republic will only hasten the arrival of that day! Salmond already appears to have 2018 in mind to do what Montenegro did back in 2006 -- with British support I must add.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"It sounds to me that you have become a great proponent for self determination, welcome to the Kosovo cause.
(heyhey, 29 April 2011 21:17)"

Sure .... the K-Serbs must have the right to secede from Pristina too, especially those in Strpce and north of the Ibar ..... no double standards! Same applies to Srpska, Eskimos of Alaska from Yankee Land if they wish, Quebec from Canada, etc etc

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

It sounds to me that you have become a great proponent for self determination, welcome to the Kosovo cause.
(heyhey, 29 April 2011 21:17)

It's not really that, he just wants to see Britain break up so Westminster can have its Just Deserts for supporting Kosovo's independence. That's why he wants the Scottish and the Welsh to want independence even though they don't. He just wants Britain to break up so he can feel good for himself, he doesn't particularly care what the Scottish or Welsh want. I've said this before, if the majority of the Scottish or the Welsh want independence then I'm willing to support their independence movements. I'll support whatever the majority of their population supports and currently that is that they want to be apart of Britain.

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

No, I'm not aware that there Nice try guys&gils.is "great hate" for secession in Scotland and Wales. Not enough popular support at the moment maybe, but I don't buy it for a moment that there is this "great hate" amongst the Scots and Welsh to ultimately be their own masters -- otherwise why is London and its supporters always so worried at the merest mention of independence? Here read this for example! [link]/

You may not realize this, but as I see it, your monarchy is about the only thing left that is binding the UK together right now, for nostalgic reasons amongst the populace if nothing else. I think many in Britain do have an affection for your queen, though I'm not sure that this goodwill extends to her heir-apparent Charles ..... Establish your republic and you break this last link ..... It may also astonish you to know that I actually share your repugnance for a class-based society that a monarchy represents. And the sooner you guys get rid of it, the better.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 17:38)

Let me give you example, I live in Wales and I'm a member of the Welsh Liberal Democrats. It was party policy to support further powers for the Sennedd. I was campaigning in favour of the Yes vote in March this year for the Referendum which was to allow the Sennedd in Cardiff Bay to pass legislation without it been approved by Westminster beforehand, in a nutshell bypassing Westminster. I received a lot of abuse from doing so because the no supporters were radically against giving Wales any more powers. I'd have people shouting at me saying "all you're going to do is give Wales more powers and allow Plaid Cymru to declared independence", which wasn't true, as the new powers would give the Sennedd the ability to do so. I'd have other people saying to me "do you this country to be independent?" and I'd tell that I didn't, so they'd question why was supporting the yes vote. When I was campaigning at people's door, I'd have people swearing and shouting at me telling me that I was going to destroy Wales by helping it to become independent, which I wasn't. A lot of people didn't really understand what the referendum was about but opposed it on the grounds of not wanting any more powers for Wales as they fear the nationalists intentions. People who were opposed to it and fully understood it opposed it on the same grounds, they didn't want it to be another step towards independence. Whereas the majority of yes supporters supported it on the grounds that it'd be more efficient for Wales, which is the reason why I supported it. The original referendum in 1997 to give Wales devolution only passed by 0.5%. The situation in Scotland is similar too, people fear the intentions of the nationalists.

There are upcoming elections in Wales and Scotland on 5 May and the nationalist parties expected to do badly. Saying that I'm giving my First Past the Vote to Plaid Cymru to try and stop Labour getting in at my constituency as the Lib-Dems have no chance, however I'll give my proportionate representation vote to the Lib-Dems. Plaid Cymru and the SNP will only ever be minority parties.

I have loads of Welsh friends, I can only think of one who supports Welsh Independence and Paid Cymru, he gets abuse for that from other Welsh people for his views.

Also the monarchy has lower support in Wales and Scotland than it does in England. The Scots and the Welsh view the Queen as the Queen of England even though her correct title is the Queen of the United Kingdom.

As to your link, Alex Salmond won't be First Minister of Scotland come 6 May and he never really was with his minority government of 31% of the seats. His 5 minutes of almost being something are up this time next week. And the SNP will not win the 2015 Scottish parliament election either.

Bydd Cymru am byth fod yn rhan o Brydain, lle y mae yn perthyn!

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heyhey

pre 13 godina

"You do realise there is a great hate in Wales for Plaid Cymru and there is a great hate towards the SNP in Scotland. Only around 10-15% of Welsh want independence and around 20-25% of Scots want independence. However I'm not prepared to have this same old debate about the break up of Britain. I understand, you want the Welsh and the Scottish to want independence but it aint gonna happen because there is not enough popular support for either independence movement.
(Ian, UK, 29 April 2011 16:30) "

No, I'm not aware that there is "great hate" for secession in Scotland and Wales. Not enough popular support at the moment maybe, but I don't buy it for a moment that there is this "great hate" amongst the Scots and Welsh to ultimately be their own masters -- otherwise why is London and its supporters always so worried at the merest mention of independence? Here read this for example! [link]/

You may not realize this, but as I see it, your monarchy is about the only thing left that is binding the UK together right now, for nostalgic reasons amongst the populace if nothing else. I think many in Britain do have an affection for your queen, though I'm not sure that this goodwill extends to her heir-apparent Charles ..... Establish your republic and you break this last link ..... It may also astonish you to know that I actually share your repugnance for a class-based society that a monarchy represents. And the sooner you guys get rid of it, the better.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 17:38)
# Comment link

Recommend (+4)Poor comment (0)What's thisMove out my way an' point me to the nearest Gypsy wedding before I stiffen up and die dry and of boredom.
How in the hell I wound up in a stable full of horses with lipstick I'll never know.

Cheerios
(WC Fields, 29 April 2011 17:16)
# Comment link

Recommend (+2)Poor comment (0)What's thisYou may well have to settle for the Republic of England. Time should come when the Scots and even the Welsh cut off the last of the English shackles for good.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 14:55)

It sounds to me that you have become a great proponent for self determination, welcome to the Kosovo cause.

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CG

pre 13 godina

Britain`s elites are fools,they are desperatly trying to establish the lost Grandeur of "the Empire" to tell their masses:
"See,we got the highest student fees in the world,we got a total uncompetetive industry,high unemployment,London as a financial hub will be extinct when China crashes the dollar reserve system ,we are nearly bancrupt but ,hey,we still have our weddings and Royal family to distract the people...
Britain is in sharp demise,economically weak,it will have to cut back on its already weak military(a complete joke,they cannot stop Gadhafi together with the French),and it is being overtaken by the Muslims very high birth rate which will create the potential for a civil war there...
All in all,a nation in demise,and nothing, not even this Micky Maus wedding can stop this!
Russia and all Slavic states should support every enemy of the UK,they are our main enemies on the European continent!

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Leonidas

pre 13 godina

(Ian, British Republic, 29 April 2011 14:05)


The Royal Wedding is one of those occasions that makes you aware of how out of touch you’re with popular culture.
I bet “call me dave” and his sidekick Nick are not going to tell you about how much this farce is going to cost you 'subjects', in terms of cuts, in nurses, Sure Start centres, elderly people's home helps, libraries etc.

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bganon

pre 13 godina

I'm going to make the type of comment which is probably expected of me on this topic.

I support the continuation of the British monarchy on a rational basis. I believe that the monarchy brings in more money in terms of tourism and trade for the UK, than it costs.

For that reason alone it would be foolish to get rid of the monarchy.

Perhaps the monarchy smacks of the class system, privelige, inequality and what is wrong with society. If I believed that was the case today I would be a republican, however, its my belief that the monarchy does not represent this any more. The powers of the monarchy in the UK are ceremonial. I don't see a unhealthy sense of entitlement when I look at them today.

At the same time, the days of lavish living, not paying tax and so on are well and truly over. I believe that the British royal family are well aware of this.

With this in mind I wish the new couple the best. Lets not forget that the last big marriage of this type ended in divorce and tragedy...

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WC Fields

pre 13 godina

Move out my way an' point me to the nearest Gypsy wedding before I stiffen up and die dry and of boredom.
How in the hell I wound up in a stable full of horses with lipstick I'll never know.

Cheerios

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"You do realise there is a great hate in Wales for Plaid Cymru and there is a great hate towards the SNP in Scotland. Only around 10-15% of Welsh want independence and around 20-25% of Scots want independence. However I'm not prepared to have this same old debate about the break up of Britain. I understand, you want the Welsh and the Scottish to want independence but it aint gonna happen because there is not enough popular support for either independence movement.
(Ian, UK, 29 April 2011 16:30) "

No, I'm not aware that there is "great hate" for secession in Scotland and Wales. Not enough popular support at the moment maybe, but I don't buy it for a moment that there is this "great hate" amongst the Scots and Welsh to ultimately be their own masters -- otherwise why is London and its supporters always so worried at the merest mention of independence? Here read this for example! http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics-news/2011/04/29/labour-leader-ed-miliband-blasts-alex-salmond-over-plans-for-scottish-independence-by-2018-86908-23094234/

You may not realize this, but as I see it, your monarchy is about the only thing left that is binding the UK together right now, for nostalgic reasons amongst the populace if nothing else. I think many in Britain do have an affection for your queen, though I'm not sure that this goodwill extends to her heir-apparent Charles ..... Establish your republic and you break this last link ..... It may also astonish you to know that I actually share your repugnance for a class-based society that a monarchy represents. And the sooner you guys get rid of it, the better.

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Ian, UK

pre 13 godina

You may well have to settle for the Republic of England. Time should come when the Scots and even the Welsh cut off the last of the English shackles for good.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 14:55)

You do realise there is a great hate in Wales for Plaid Cymru and there is a great hate towards the SNP in Scotland. Only around 10-15% of Welsh want independence and around 20-25% of Scots want independence. However I'm not prepared to have this same old debate about the break up of Britain. I understand, you want the Welsh and the Scottish to want independence but it aint gonna happen because there is not enough popular support for either independence movement.

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Zoran

pre 13 godina

I'd like to congratulate Prince William and Princess Catherine on their marriage. It went through rather nicely and the weather held up fine. All the best and I hope they make a positive contribution to the world.

The reading of Romans from the bible during the ceremony was very appropriate and I hope world leaders took note of the peaceful message it sent.

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Patrik

pre 13 godina

Pretty nasty comments so far. I wish them well. I don't doubt that there would be gala events such as this in Belgrade if the monarchy was restored. People need a little fantasy once in a while to briefly take them away from their ordinary lives.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"Bring on the British Republic!
(Ian, British Republic, 29 April 2011 14:05)"

You may well have to settle for the Republic of England. Time should come when the Scots and even the Welsh cut off the last of the English shackles for good.

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

It is costing the British economy around £5 Billion, is that really worth it to promote this Elitist Undemocratic Mediaeval Toff institution whilst the economy is going down the drain?

I've not bothered to watch it on TV, this sort of thing makes me feel sick. However I did find it rather amusing that the North Korean ambassador was there, "Kim Jong-il sends his regards" haha.

Prince Bill looks like a right Goof, with his ancestral quiff and his odd shaped face. Why should he be our future head of state? The Head of State should be elected not appointed due to a blood line.

Bring on the British Republic!

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

It is costing the British economy around £5 Billion, is that really worth it to promote this Elitist Undemocratic Mediaeval Toff institution whilst the economy is going down the drain?

I've not bothered to watch it on TV, this sort of thing makes me feel sick. However I did find it rather amusing that the North Korean ambassador was there, "Kim Jong-il sends his regards" haha.

Prince Bill looks like a right Goof, with his ancestral quiff and his odd shaped face. Why should he be our future head of state? The Head of State should be elected not appointed due to a blood line.

Bring on the British Republic!

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Zoran

pre 13 godina

I'd like to congratulate Prince William and Princess Catherine on their marriage. It went through rather nicely and the weather held up fine. All the best and I hope they make a positive contribution to the world.

The reading of Romans from the bible during the ceremony was very appropriate and I hope world leaders took note of the peaceful message it sent.

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CG

pre 13 godina

Britain`s elites are fools,they are desperatly trying to establish the lost Grandeur of "the Empire" to tell their masses:
"See,we got the highest student fees in the world,we got a total uncompetetive industry,high unemployment,London as a financial hub will be extinct when China crashes the dollar reserve system ,we are nearly bancrupt but ,hey,we still have our weddings and Royal family to distract the people...
Britain is in sharp demise,economically weak,it will have to cut back on its already weak military(a complete joke,they cannot stop Gadhafi together with the French),and it is being overtaken by the Muslims very high birth rate which will create the potential for a civil war there...
All in all,a nation in demise,and nothing, not even this Micky Maus wedding can stop this!
Russia and all Slavic states should support every enemy of the UK,they are our main enemies on the European continent!

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Patrik

pre 13 godina

Pretty nasty comments so far. I wish them well. I don't doubt that there would be gala events such as this in Belgrade if the monarchy was restored. People need a little fantasy once in a while to briefly take them away from their ordinary lives.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"Bring on the British Republic!
(Ian, British Republic, 29 April 2011 14:05)"

You may well have to settle for the Republic of England. Time should come when the Scots and even the Welsh cut off the last of the English shackles for good.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"You do realise there is a great hate in Wales for Plaid Cymru and there is a great hate towards the SNP in Scotland. Only around 10-15% of Welsh want independence and around 20-25% of Scots want independence. However I'm not prepared to have this same old debate about the break up of Britain. I understand, you want the Welsh and the Scottish to want independence but it aint gonna happen because there is not enough popular support for either independence movement.
(Ian, UK, 29 April 2011 16:30) "

No, I'm not aware that there is "great hate" for secession in Scotland and Wales. Not enough popular support at the moment maybe, but I don't buy it for a moment that there is this "great hate" amongst the Scots and Welsh to ultimately be their own masters -- otherwise why is London and its supporters always so worried at the merest mention of independence? Here read this for example! http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics-news/2011/04/29/labour-leader-ed-miliband-blasts-alex-salmond-over-plans-for-scottish-independence-by-2018-86908-23094234/

You may not realize this, but as I see it, your monarchy is about the only thing left that is binding the UK together right now, for nostalgic reasons amongst the populace if nothing else. I think many in Britain do have an affection for your queen, though I'm not sure that this goodwill extends to her heir-apparent Charles ..... Establish your republic and you break this last link ..... It may also astonish you to know that I actually share your repugnance for a class-based society that a monarchy represents. And the sooner you guys get rid of it, the better.

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bganon

pre 13 godina

I'm going to make the type of comment which is probably expected of me on this topic.

I support the continuation of the British monarchy on a rational basis. I believe that the monarchy brings in more money in terms of tourism and trade for the UK, than it costs.

For that reason alone it would be foolish to get rid of the monarchy.

Perhaps the monarchy smacks of the class system, privelige, inequality and what is wrong with society. If I believed that was the case today I would be a republican, however, its my belief that the monarchy does not represent this any more. The powers of the monarchy in the UK are ceremonial. I don't see a unhealthy sense of entitlement when I look at them today.

At the same time, the days of lavish living, not paying tax and so on are well and truly over. I believe that the British royal family are well aware of this.

With this in mind I wish the new couple the best. Lets not forget that the last big marriage of this type ended in divorce and tragedy...

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Leonidas

pre 13 godina

(Ian, British Republic, 29 April 2011 14:05)


The Royal Wedding is one of those occasions that makes you aware of how out of touch you’re with popular culture.
I bet “call me dave” and his sidekick Nick are not going to tell you about how much this farce is going to cost you 'subjects', in terms of cuts, in nurses, Sure Start centres, elderly people's home helps, libraries etc.

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wee kelpie

pre 13 godina

What a load of 'pish' :-))
All quiet on the Kosovo/Serbia front?
Struggling for attention are we and can't find a suitable thread!

As a brit who is unashamedly a 'mornarchist', yesterdays wedding was not only what one would expect from an experienced establishment, it also bode well for the future of the British Royal Family.

In Kate and Will I believe we finally have what QEII as been hoping for, a modern and vibrant couple who are not trapped in the past.

I, and many others in the UK, wish them well.

Republican mutterings in the UK is just that, mutterings. They have been around as long as I can remember, and before that also.

Remember, the last time Britian had any form of Republican ideas (Commonwealth under that autocratic vandal 'Cromwell') it was not long after that the crown was restored. And for good reason.

The prospect of engaging in another set of canvassing and voting for a President/Head of State type does not appeal to a lot of people.

If it ain't broke................

As for Wales and Scotland, the argument for Welsh independance could be supported, she was conquered after all. As for Scotland, well she sold her soul for Gold to join the Union, a contract is a contract :-))

Rule Brittania..............

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WC Fields

pre 13 godina

Move out my way an' point me to the nearest Gypsy wedding before I stiffen up and die dry and of boredom.
How in the hell I wound up in a stable full of horses with lipstick I'll never know.

Cheerios

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Ian, UK

pre 13 godina

You may well have to settle for the Republic of England. Time should come when the Scots and even the Welsh cut off the last of the English shackles for good.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 14:55)

You do realise there is a great hate in Wales for Plaid Cymru and there is a great hate towards the SNP in Scotland. Only around 10-15% of Welsh want independence and around 20-25% of Scots want independence. However I'm not prepared to have this same old debate about the break up of Britain. I understand, you want the Welsh and the Scottish to want independence but it aint gonna happen because there is not enough popular support for either independence movement.

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heyhey

pre 13 godina

"You do realise there is a great hate in Wales for Plaid Cymru and there is a great hate towards the SNP in Scotland. Only around 10-15% of Welsh want independence and around 20-25% of Scots want independence. However I'm not prepared to have this same old debate about the break up of Britain. I understand, you want the Welsh and the Scottish to want independence but it aint gonna happen because there is not enough popular support for either independence movement.
(Ian, UK, 29 April 2011 16:30) "

No, I'm not aware that there is "great hate" for secession in Scotland and Wales. Not enough popular support at the moment maybe, but I don't buy it for a moment that there is this "great hate" amongst the Scots and Welsh to ultimately be their own masters -- otherwise why is London and its supporters always so worried at the merest mention of independence? Here read this for example! [link]/

You may not realize this, but as I see it, your monarchy is about the only thing left that is binding the UK together right now, for nostalgic reasons amongst the populace if nothing else. I think many in Britain do have an affection for your queen, though I'm not sure that this goodwill extends to her heir-apparent Charles ..... Establish your republic and you break this last link ..... It may also astonish you to know that I actually share your repugnance for a class-based society that a monarchy represents. And the sooner you guys get rid of it, the better.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 17:38)
# Comment link

Recommend (+4)Poor comment (0)What's thisMove out my way an' point me to the nearest Gypsy wedding before I stiffen up and die dry and of boredom.
How in the hell I wound up in a stable full of horses with lipstick I'll never know.

Cheerios
(WC Fields, 29 April 2011 17:16)
# Comment link

Recommend (+2)Poor comment (0)What's thisYou may well have to settle for the Republic of England. Time should come when the Scots and even the Welsh cut off the last of the English shackles for good.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 14:55)

It sounds to me that you have become a great proponent for self determination, welcome to the Kosovo cause.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"It sounds to me that you have become a great proponent for self determination, welcome to the Kosovo cause.
(heyhey, 29 April 2011 21:17)"

Sure .... the K-Serbs must have the right to secede from Pristina too, especially those in Strpce and north of the Ibar ..... no double standards! Same applies to Srpska, Eskimos of Alaska from Yankee Land if they wish, Quebec from Canada, etc etc

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Peggy

pre 13 godina

Bgannon wrote:


"I support the continuation of the British monarchy on a rational basis. I believe that the monarchy brings in more money in terms of tourism and trade for the UK, than it costs."
=============================

Please don't take this the wrong way. I have heard this argument from someone just the yesterday day at work so I get that some people believe this.
What figures do you base this on? Is this just a gut feeling or do you have some figures to back it up?

I personally don't think that monarchy is relevant today at all. Once upon a time monarchy did have their place as they actually ruled and even went to war for their country but today they have no power and are just window dressing.
I believe we have evolved and don't need them any longer. They certainly don't make me feel all warm and fuzzy because I can't see what purpose they have now except to look pretty and hold functions.
If you look around many countries are doing just fine without them. Take Germany for an example. They are doing very well and are not supporting a firm. France has done away with their monarchy a long time ago and they are doing just fine too. Many examples of how people have grown up and outgrown their monarchs.

Weddings don't come often enough to get people flocking to England to see them.

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion and an opinion based on emotion is also a good one but if it is made on a rational level like yours it awakens my curiosity about the figures that verify that.

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

No, I'm not aware that there Nice try guys&gils.is "great hate" for secession in Scotland and Wales. Not enough popular support at the moment maybe, but I don't buy it for a moment that there is this "great hate" amongst the Scots and Welsh to ultimately be their own masters -- otherwise why is London and its supporters always so worried at the merest mention of independence? Here read this for example! [link]/

You may not realize this, but as I see it, your monarchy is about the only thing left that is binding the UK together right now, for nostalgic reasons amongst the populace if nothing else. I think many in Britain do have an affection for your queen, though I'm not sure that this goodwill extends to her heir-apparent Charles ..... Establish your republic and you break this last link ..... It may also astonish you to know that I actually share your repugnance for a class-based society that a monarchy represents. And the sooner you guys get rid of it, the better.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 17:38)

Let me give you example, I live in Wales and I'm a member of the Welsh Liberal Democrats. It was party policy to support further powers for the Sennedd. I was campaigning in favour of the Yes vote in March this year for the Referendum which was to allow the Sennedd in Cardiff Bay to pass legislation without it been approved by Westminster beforehand, in a nutshell bypassing Westminster. I received a lot of abuse from doing so because the no supporters were radically against giving Wales any more powers. I'd have people shouting at me saying "all you're going to do is give Wales more powers and allow Plaid Cymru to declared independence", which wasn't true, as the new powers would give the Sennedd the ability to do so. I'd have other people saying to me "do you this country to be independent?" and I'd tell that I didn't, so they'd question why was supporting the yes vote. When I was campaigning at people's door, I'd have people swearing and shouting at me telling me that I was going to destroy Wales by helping it to become independent, which I wasn't. A lot of people didn't really understand what the referendum was about but opposed it on the grounds of not wanting any more powers for Wales as they fear the nationalists intentions. People who were opposed to it and fully understood it opposed it on the same grounds, they didn't want it to be another step towards independence. Whereas the majority of yes supporters supported it on the grounds that it'd be more efficient for Wales, which is the reason why I supported it. The original referendum in 1997 to give Wales devolution only passed by 0.5%. The situation in Scotland is similar too, people fear the intentions of the nationalists.

There are upcoming elections in Wales and Scotland on 5 May and the nationalist parties expected to do badly. Saying that I'm giving my First Past the Vote to Plaid Cymru to try and stop Labour getting in at my constituency as the Lib-Dems have no chance, however I'll give my proportionate representation vote to the Lib-Dems. Plaid Cymru and the SNP will only ever be minority parties.

I have loads of Welsh friends, I can only think of one who supports Welsh Independence and Paid Cymru, he gets abuse for that from other Welsh people for his views.

Also the monarchy has lower support in Wales and Scotland than it does in England. The Scots and the Welsh view the Queen as the Queen of England even though her correct title is the Queen of the United Kingdom.

As to your link, Alex Salmond won't be First Minister of Scotland come 6 May and he never really was with his minority government of 31% of the seats. His 5 minutes of almost being something are up this time next week. And the SNP will not win the 2015 Scottish parliament election either.

Bydd Cymru am byth fod yn rhan o Brydain, lle y mae yn perthyn!

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lowe

pre 13 godina

“Let me give you example, I live in Wales and I'm a member of the Welsh Liberal Democrats. It was party policy to support further powers for the Sennedd. I was campaigning in favour of the Yes vote in March this year for the Referendum which was to allow the Sennedd in Cardiff Bay to pass legislation without it been approved by Westminster beforehand, in a nutshell bypassing Westminster. I received a lot of abuse from doing so because the no supporters were radically against giving Wales any more powers. ……………


As to your link, Alex Salmond won't be First Minister of Scotland come 6 May and he never really was with his minority government of 31% of the seats. His 5 minutes of almost being something are up this time next week. And the SNP will not win the 2015 Scottish parliament election either.


(Ian, British Republic, 29 April 2011 22:34)”

Well, notwithstanding your long, almost hysterical tirade (which I had to truncate for practical reason of not wasting space), the only way to really be sure would be to allow a free and fair referendum to settle the independence issue once and for all, right? My point was that if London is really so confident that independence will be rejected, then surely such referendums in Scotland and Wales serve to will democratic vindicate UK’s right to continued union once and for all.

I would respectfully suggest to you that the heavy abuse that you claimed to have got in Wales could indicate your lack of PR skills or your unsuitability for that job. I can’t imagine civilized people during peace time behaving as described by you when asked to democratically support (or not support) a cause – are you sure you are not embellishing the truth?

I didn’t state that Scotland will become independent immediately. But I believe the day will come when the Scots finally do decide to bolt the union and be their own bosses, and your British Republic will only hasten the arrival of that day! Salmond already appears to have 2018 in mind to do what Montenegro did back in 2006 -- with British support I must add.

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Peggy

pre 13 godina

Pretty nasty comments so far. I wish them well. I don't doubt that there would be gala events such as this in Belgrade if the monarchy was restored. People need a little fantasy once in a while to briefly take them away from their ordinary lives.
(Patrik, 29 April 2011 15:15)
========================

I have no doubt that there would be the same in Belgrade too if monarchy was restored but I think it would be a waste of money to do that.
I believe we have come a long way from needed a king or a queen.
The problem with people is that they are all too ready to be distracted from every day lives. Doesn't solve anything and that is what they count on.

We can get distracted in other ways besides worshiping people who have done nothing for us but being born into a certain family by accident.

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bganon

pre 13 godina

Peggy all we have is estimates, so its impossible to say how much exactly is generated. Some estimates claim that they are worth half a billion pounds each year to the British economy.

And whilst its true that the economies you mentioned have done well without their royal families, its also true that many of the people in countries like the US are obsessed with the royals and spend huge sums of money on visiting royal sites, buying souvenirs etc. Anybody who has lived or worked in central London can bear witness to that.

Yeah I find it a little silly that people get up at 3 in the morning to pave the streets for the slightest second glimpse of the 'royal couple', but thats their choice. And yes people should not really be obsessing about the lives of the royals, but rather think about putting bread on the table or how to improve themselves or the lives of their families. But hey these days the amount of garbage people obsess about / watch, the royal family sets a pretty good example. I also know that the royal family has raised a lot of money for charity which has surely saved many lives. Yes, of course cutting ribbons, making appearances and giving speeches is not hard work, but if it produces results, that is what I'm concerned with.

I'm confident that the British get more out of the royal family than they put it. I don't believe this used to be the case, but it is today.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

" I've said this before, if the majority of the Scottish or the Welsh want independence then I'm willing to support their independence movements. I'll support whatever the majority of their population supports and currently that is that they want to be apart of Britain.
(Ian, British Republic, 30 April 2011 00:49)"

Good. Now put your money where your mouth is and convince your recalcitrant government to be as enlightened as you.

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

Don’t forget that the UK is also likely to be seen to have ceased to exist as a country. England will not only be a much smaller country, she will probably have to apply for UN entry (taking the original Yugoslav case as a precedent). Don’t expect her to get past the Russian and Chinese vetoes anytime soon. And oops! She herself will also lose her veto power too! Her fig leaf as a “world power” would be removed forever …….. and THIS I think, rather than the mere technical unconstitutionality that you talked about, is the main reason why London practices its double standards on independence!
(lowe, 1 May 2011 02:18)

Haha so that's why you want the UK to split up, satisfaction for the break up of Yugoslavia and so that London loses it's veto power in the UNSC. Not going to happen mate, you keep on dreaming.

Also did Russia have to reapply for UN membership or UN membership or did they just continue the USSR's membership.

Cymru am Byth!
Alba deo!

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"Also we're not practising double standards because the Scottish and Welsh don't want independence unlike the Kosovars.
(Ian, British Republic, 1 May 2011 13:37)"

You personally may not be practising double standards, but your government certainy is when it opposes independence referendums on its own turf only while supporting these referendums in other countries.

The relevant criterion here for double standards is NOT whether the Scots and Welsh want or don't want independence, the relevant criterion is whether London would genuinely allow them to hold these referendums.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"Haha so that's why you want the UK to split up, satisfaction for the break up of Yugoslavia and so that London loses it's veto power in the UNSC. Not going to happen mate, you keep on dreaming.

Also did Russia have to reapply for UN membership or UN membership or did they just continue the USSR's membership.

Cymru am Byth!
Alba deo!
(Ian, British Republic, 1 May 2011 12:22) "

Whether it will happen or not in the future remains to be seen. But I think I am making a correct guess on what really worrries London.

As for the USSR, it imploded BEFORE Yugoslavia did. Nobody at that time disputed Russia as successor to the USSR's seat -- my guess is that the West didn't see the need to that to a Russia that appeared greatly weakened then thanks in part to Yeltsin and his liquor. Putin was low profile and bidding his time at that point.

When the SFRY broke apart later however, a UN resolution was passed that barred its UN seat from being inherited by any of SFRY's former republics. Given that this was a later UN resolution, it should have priority over the USSR resolution as a precedent -- in the same way your country's legal equity supercedes your common laws should they be at variance with each other. Given the realpolitik of today, I wouldn't bet on Russia or China treating England with the same kid's glove that was dealt to Yeltsin. So I wouldn't be so complacent if I were an English person.

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

It sounds to me that you have become a great proponent for self determination, welcome to the Kosovo cause.
(heyhey, 29 April 2011 21:17)

It's not really that, he just wants to see Britain break up so Westminster can have its Just Deserts for supporting Kosovo's independence. That's why he wants the Scottish and the Welsh to want independence even though they don't. He just wants Britain to break up so he can feel good for himself, he doesn't particularly care what the Scottish or Welsh want. I've said this before, if the majority of the Scottish or the Welsh want independence then I'm willing to support their independence movements. I'll support whatever the majority of their population supports and currently that is that they want to be apart of Britain.

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Danilo

pre 13 godina

I love hearing weird balkans fantasies about the break-up of Britain.

project much?

or maybe it's some kind of impotent revenge fantasy.

or maybe it's a kind of "see, things are the same everywhere" soother.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"I love hearing weird balkans fantasies about the break-up of Britain.

project much?

or maybe it's some kind of impotent revenge fantasy.

or maybe it's a kind of "see, things are the same everywhere" soother.
(Danilo, 30 April 2011 07:36) "

You love hearing about the break-up of Britain? Then by all means visit B92 threads such as these .....We shall however have to agree to disagree about whether it will ultimately turn out to be fantasy or otherwise ...... and one doesn't have to hail from the Balkans to talk about a UK break-up -- I should know as I am living proof of someone completely outside the Balkans ...... by the way, have you finally uncovered the difference between the ICG and the ICJ? And this ain't no fantasy trivia!

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lowe

pre 13 godina

“Just to let you know I have had training in political campaigning and I've had lots of experince of it before. When I have campaigned for elections I've not recived such abuse, but the issue of independence and further autonomy in Wales is a very sensative topic as many people are radically opposed to such ideas. “

If you what you wrote is true, then it would be a humongous dent on the British reputation as a basically gracious society that many people elsewhere have about you guys. Of course you could have also have gone way overboard with your campaigning zeal and did not know when to back off when those people tell you to do so – in which case I think you basically deserved those tons of bricks that fell on you.


“Even though independence referendums in Scotland and Wales would be uncostitutional (this is why London is opposed to them), I would not be opposed to them. I think it is only fair that the people get to decide their own future. However I am very certain of the outcome if such referendums were to take place. What you have to realise is that Scotland and Wales are not in the Balkans. Everyone doesn't believe that they must be independent and that all ethnicities must live in one country together like the nationalist beliefs in the Balkans. “

As I implied to you earlier, then its high time your government stop practicing its despicable double standards about the independence issue for itself and other countries like Serbia.


“There has always been independence movements and there always will be, they've not grown in size in recent years they're pretty much the same as they were in the 1960s. “

That’s no excuse for forbidding the Scots or Welsh from holding their referendum if they should want to do so.


“Alex Salmond has already stated that if Scotland does ever achieve independence, Scotland will be in the EU; they'll keep the Queen as the head of state and they'll keep the Pound Stirling as the currency used in Scotland as long as the rest of Britain does. They also already have their own Rugby and Football teams, which are the two biggest sports in Scotland. So this begs the question, whats the point? and this is what many Scots believe. What many Scots want is a bigger Scottish national identity within the British identity as a whole. The same applies to the Welsh too. And I agree, they should have bigger national identity within the British national identity. Personally I believe Welsh should become an offical language of the UK.
(Ian, British Republic, 30 April 2011 23:20)”

Don’t forget that the UK is also likely to be seen to have ceased to exist as a country. England will not only be a much smaller country, she will probably have to apply for UN entry (taking the original Yugoslav case as a precedent). Don’t expect her to get past the Russian and Chinese vetoes anytime soon. And oops! She herself will also lose her veto power too! Her fig leaf as a “world power” would be removed forever …….. and THIS I think, rather than the mere technical unconstitutionality that you talked about, is the main reason why London practices its double standards on independence!

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

Well, notwithstanding your long, almost hysterical tirade (which I had to truncate for practical reason of not wasting space), the only way to really be sure would be to allow a free and fair referendum to settle the independence issue once and for all, right? My point was that if London is really so confident that independence will be rejected, then surely such referendums in Scotland and Wales serve to will democratic vindicate UK’s right to continued union once and for all.

I would respectfully suggest to you that the heavy abuse that you claimed to have got in Wales could indicate your lack of PR skills or your unsuitability for that job. I can’t imagine civilized people during peace time behaving as described by you when asked to democratically support (or not support) a cause – are you sure you are not embellishing the truth?

I didn’t state that Scotland will become independent immediately. But I believe the day will come when the Scots finally do decide to bolt the union and be their own bosses, and your British Republic will only hasten the arrival of that day! Salmond already appears to have 2018 in mind to do what Montenegro did back in 2006 -- with British support I must add.
(lowe, 30 April 2011 02:16)

Just to let you know I have had training in political campaigning and I've had lots of experince of it before. When I have campaigned for elections I've not recived such abuse, but the issue of independence and further autonomy in Wales is a very sensative topic as many people are radically opposed to such ideas.

Even though independence referendums in Scotland and Wales would be uncostitutional (this is why London is opposed to them), I would not be opposed to them. I think it is only fair that the people get to decide their own future. However I am very certain of the outcome if such referendums were to take place. What you have to realise is that Scotland and Wales are not in the Balkans. Everyone doesn't believe that they must be independent and that all ethnicities must live in one country together like the nationalist beliefs in the Balkans.

There has always been independence movements and there always will be, they've not grown in size in recent years they're pretty much the same as they were in the 1960s.

Alex Salmond has already stated that if Scotland does ever achieve independence, Scotland will be in the EU; they'll keep the Queen as the head of state and they'll keep the Pound Stirling as the currency used in Scotland as long as the rest of Britain does. They also already have their own Rugby and Football teams, which are the two biggest sports in Scotland. So this begs the question, whats the point? and this is what many Scots believe. What many Scots want is a bigger Scottish national identity within the British identity as a whole. The same applies to the Welsh too. And I agree, they should have bigger national identity within the British national identity. Personally I believe Welsh should become an offical language of the UK.

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

(lowe, 1 May 2011 02:18)

Also we're not practising double standards because the Scottish and Welsh don't want independence unlike the Kosovars.

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CG

pre 13 godina

Britain`s elites are fools,they are desperatly trying to establish the lost Grandeur of "the Empire" to tell their masses:
"See,we got the highest student fees in the world,we got a total uncompetetive industry,high unemployment,London as a financial hub will be extinct when China crashes the dollar reserve system ,we are nearly bancrupt but ,hey,we still have our weddings and Royal family to distract the people...
Britain is in sharp demise,economically weak,it will have to cut back on its already weak military(a complete joke,they cannot stop Gadhafi together with the French),and it is being overtaken by the Muslims very high birth rate which will create the potential for a civil war there...
All in all,a nation in demise,and nothing, not even this Micky Maus wedding can stop this!
Russia and all Slavic states should support every enemy of the UK,they are our main enemies on the European continent!

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heyhey

pre 13 godina

"You do realise there is a great hate in Wales for Plaid Cymru and there is a great hate towards the SNP in Scotland. Only around 10-15% of Welsh want independence and around 20-25% of Scots want independence. However I'm not prepared to have this same old debate about the break up of Britain. I understand, you want the Welsh and the Scottish to want independence but it aint gonna happen because there is not enough popular support for either independence movement.
(Ian, UK, 29 April 2011 16:30) "

No, I'm not aware that there is "great hate" for secession in Scotland and Wales. Not enough popular support at the moment maybe, but I don't buy it for a moment that there is this "great hate" amongst the Scots and Welsh to ultimately be their own masters -- otherwise why is London and its supporters always so worried at the merest mention of independence? Here read this for example! [link]/

You may not realize this, but as I see it, your monarchy is about the only thing left that is binding the UK together right now, for nostalgic reasons amongst the populace if nothing else. I think many in Britain do have an affection for your queen, though I'm not sure that this goodwill extends to her heir-apparent Charles ..... Establish your republic and you break this last link ..... It may also astonish you to know that I actually share your repugnance for a class-based society that a monarchy represents. And the sooner you guys get rid of it, the better.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 17:38)
# Comment link

Recommend (+4)Poor comment (0)What's thisMove out my way an' point me to the nearest Gypsy wedding before I stiffen up and die dry and of boredom.
How in the hell I wound up in a stable full of horses with lipstick I'll never know.

Cheerios
(WC Fields, 29 April 2011 17:16)
# Comment link

Recommend (+2)Poor comment (0)What's thisYou may well have to settle for the Republic of England. Time should come when the Scots and even the Welsh cut off the last of the English shackles for good.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 14:55)

It sounds to me that you have become a great proponent for self determination, welcome to the Kosovo cause.

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Ian, UK

pre 13 godina

You may well have to settle for the Republic of England. Time should come when the Scots and even the Welsh cut off the last of the English shackles for good.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 14:55)

You do realise there is a great hate in Wales for Plaid Cymru and there is a great hate towards the SNP in Scotland. Only around 10-15% of Welsh want independence and around 20-25% of Scots want independence. However I'm not prepared to have this same old debate about the break up of Britain. I understand, you want the Welsh and the Scottish to want independence but it aint gonna happen because there is not enough popular support for either independence movement.

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bganon

pre 13 godina

I'm going to make the type of comment which is probably expected of me on this topic.

I support the continuation of the British monarchy on a rational basis. I believe that the monarchy brings in more money in terms of tourism and trade for the UK, than it costs.

For that reason alone it would be foolish to get rid of the monarchy.

Perhaps the monarchy smacks of the class system, privelige, inequality and what is wrong with society. If I believed that was the case today I would be a republican, however, its my belief that the monarchy does not represent this any more. The powers of the monarchy in the UK are ceremonial. I don't see a unhealthy sense of entitlement when I look at them today.

At the same time, the days of lavish living, not paying tax and so on are well and truly over. I believe that the British royal family are well aware of this.

With this in mind I wish the new couple the best. Lets not forget that the last big marriage of this type ended in divorce and tragedy...

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

It is costing the British economy around £5 Billion, is that really worth it to promote this Elitist Undemocratic Mediaeval Toff institution whilst the economy is going down the drain?

I've not bothered to watch it on TV, this sort of thing makes me feel sick. However I did find it rather amusing that the North Korean ambassador was there, "Kim Jong-il sends his regards" haha.

Prince Bill looks like a right Goof, with his ancestral quiff and his odd shaped face. Why should he be our future head of state? The Head of State should be elected not appointed due to a blood line.

Bring on the British Republic!

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Patrik

pre 13 godina

Pretty nasty comments so far. I wish them well. I don't doubt that there would be gala events such as this in Belgrade if the monarchy was restored. People need a little fantasy once in a while to briefly take them away from their ordinary lives.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"Bring on the British Republic!
(Ian, British Republic, 29 April 2011 14:05)"

You may well have to settle for the Republic of England. Time should come when the Scots and even the Welsh cut off the last of the English shackles for good.

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Leonidas

pre 13 godina

(Ian, British Republic, 29 April 2011 14:05)


The Royal Wedding is one of those occasions that makes you aware of how out of touch you’re with popular culture.
I bet “call me dave” and his sidekick Nick are not going to tell you about how much this farce is going to cost you 'subjects', in terms of cuts, in nurses, Sure Start centres, elderly people's home helps, libraries etc.

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

No, I'm not aware that there Nice try guys&gils.is "great hate" for secession in Scotland and Wales. Not enough popular support at the moment maybe, but I don't buy it for a moment that there is this "great hate" amongst the Scots and Welsh to ultimately be their own masters -- otherwise why is London and its supporters always so worried at the merest mention of independence? Here read this for example! [link]/

You may not realize this, but as I see it, your monarchy is about the only thing left that is binding the UK together right now, for nostalgic reasons amongst the populace if nothing else. I think many in Britain do have an affection for your queen, though I'm not sure that this goodwill extends to her heir-apparent Charles ..... Establish your republic and you break this last link ..... It may also astonish you to know that I actually share your repugnance for a class-based society that a monarchy represents. And the sooner you guys get rid of it, the better.
(lowe, 29 April 2011 17:38)

Let me give you example, I live in Wales and I'm a member of the Welsh Liberal Democrats. It was party policy to support further powers for the Sennedd. I was campaigning in favour of the Yes vote in March this year for the Referendum which was to allow the Sennedd in Cardiff Bay to pass legislation without it been approved by Westminster beforehand, in a nutshell bypassing Westminster. I received a lot of abuse from doing so because the no supporters were radically against giving Wales any more powers. I'd have people shouting at me saying "all you're going to do is give Wales more powers and allow Plaid Cymru to declared independence", which wasn't true, as the new powers would give the Sennedd the ability to do so. I'd have other people saying to me "do you this country to be independent?" and I'd tell that I didn't, so they'd question why was supporting the yes vote. When I was campaigning at people's door, I'd have people swearing and shouting at me telling me that I was going to destroy Wales by helping it to become independent, which I wasn't. A lot of people didn't really understand what the referendum was about but opposed it on the grounds of not wanting any more powers for Wales as they fear the nationalists intentions. People who were opposed to it and fully understood it opposed it on the same grounds, they didn't want it to be another step towards independence. Whereas the majority of yes supporters supported it on the grounds that it'd be more efficient for Wales, which is the reason why I supported it. The original referendum in 1997 to give Wales devolution only passed by 0.5%. The situation in Scotland is similar too, people fear the intentions of the nationalists.

There are upcoming elections in Wales and Scotland on 5 May and the nationalist parties expected to do badly. Saying that I'm giving my First Past the Vote to Plaid Cymru to try and stop Labour getting in at my constituency as the Lib-Dems have no chance, however I'll give my proportionate representation vote to the Lib-Dems. Plaid Cymru and the SNP will only ever be minority parties.

I have loads of Welsh friends, I can only think of one who supports Welsh Independence and Paid Cymru, he gets abuse for that from other Welsh people for his views.

Also the monarchy has lower support in Wales and Scotland than it does in England. The Scots and the Welsh view the Queen as the Queen of England even though her correct title is the Queen of the United Kingdom.

As to your link, Alex Salmond won't be First Minister of Scotland come 6 May and he never really was with his minority government of 31% of the seats. His 5 minutes of almost being something are up this time next week. And the SNP will not win the 2015 Scottish parliament election either.

Bydd Cymru am byth fod yn rhan o Brydain, lle y mae yn perthyn!

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"You do realise there is a great hate in Wales for Plaid Cymru and there is a great hate towards the SNP in Scotland. Only around 10-15% of Welsh want independence and around 20-25% of Scots want independence. However I'm not prepared to have this same old debate about the break up of Britain. I understand, you want the Welsh and the Scottish to want independence but it aint gonna happen because there is not enough popular support for either independence movement.
(Ian, UK, 29 April 2011 16:30) "

No, I'm not aware that there is "great hate" for secession in Scotland and Wales. Not enough popular support at the moment maybe, but I don't buy it for a moment that there is this "great hate" amongst the Scots and Welsh to ultimately be their own masters -- otherwise why is London and its supporters always so worried at the merest mention of independence? Here read this for example! http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics-news/2011/04/29/labour-leader-ed-miliband-blasts-alex-salmond-over-plans-for-scottish-independence-by-2018-86908-23094234/

You may not realize this, but as I see it, your monarchy is about the only thing left that is binding the UK together right now, for nostalgic reasons amongst the populace if nothing else. I think many in Britain do have an affection for your queen, though I'm not sure that this goodwill extends to her heir-apparent Charles ..... Establish your republic and you break this last link ..... It may also astonish you to know that I actually share your repugnance for a class-based society that a monarchy represents. And the sooner you guys get rid of it, the better.

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WC Fields

pre 13 godina

Move out my way an' point me to the nearest Gypsy wedding before I stiffen up and die dry and of boredom.
How in the hell I wound up in a stable full of horses with lipstick I'll never know.

Cheerios

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Zoran

pre 13 godina

I'd like to congratulate Prince William and Princess Catherine on their marriage. It went through rather nicely and the weather held up fine. All the best and I hope they make a positive contribution to the world.

The reading of Romans from the bible during the ceremony was very appropriate and I hope world leaders took note of the peaceful message it sent.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

“Let me give you example, I live in Wales and I'm a member of the Welsh Liberal Democrats. It was party policy to support further powers for the Sennedd. I was campaigning in favour of the Yes vote in March this year for the Referendum which was to allow the Sennedd in Cardiff Bay to pass legislation without it been approved by Westminster beforehand, in a nutshell bypassing Westminster. I received a lot of abuse from doing so because the no supporters were radically against giving Wales any more powers. ……………


As to your link, Alex Salmond won't be First Minister of Scotland come 6 May and he never really was with his minority government of 31% of the seats. His 5 minutes of almost being something are up this time next week. And the SNP will not win the 2015 Scottish parliament election either.


(Ian, British Republic, 29 April 2011 22:34)”

Well, notwithstanding your long, almost hysterical tirade (which I had to truncate for practical reason of not wasting space), the only way to really be sure would be to allow a free and fair referendum to settle the independence issue once and for all, right? My point was that if London is really so confident that independence will be rejected, then surely such referendums in Scotland and Wales serve to will democratic vindicate UK’s right to continued union once and for all.

I would respectfully suggest to you that the heavy abuse that you claimed to have got in Wales could indicate your lack of PR skills or your unsuitability for that job. I can’t imagine civilized people during peace time behaving as described by you when asked to democratically support (or not support) a cause – are you sure you are not embellishing the truth?

I didn’t state that Scotland will become independent immediately. But I believe the day will come when the Scots finally do decide to bolt the union and be their own bosses, and your British Republic will only hasten the arrival of that day! Salmond already appears to have 2018 in mind to do what Montenegro did back in 2006 -- with British support I must add.

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Danilo

pre 13 godina

I love hearing weird balkans fantasies about the break-up of Britain.

project much?

or maybe it's some kind of impotent revenge fantasy.

or maybe it's a kind of "see, things are the same everywhere" soother.

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bganon

pre 13 godina

Peggy all we have is estimates, so its impossible to say how much exactly is generated. Some estimates claim that they are worth half a billion pounds each year to the British economy.

And whilst its true that the economies you mentioned have done well without their royal families, its also true that many of the people in countries like the US are obsessed with the royals and spend huge sums of money on visiting royal sites, buying souvenirs etc. Anybody who has lived or worked in central London can bear witness to that.

Yeah I find it a little silly that people get up at 3 in the morning to pave the streets for the slightest second glimpse of the 'royal couple', but thats their choice. And yes people should not really be obsessing about the lives of the royals, but rather think about putting bread on the table or how to improve themselves or the lives of their families. But hey these days the amount of garbage people obsess about / watch, the royal family sets a pretty good example. I also know that the royal family has raised a lot of money for charity which has surely saved many lives. Yes, of course cutting ribbons, making appearances and giving speeches is not hard work, but if it produces results, that is what I'm concerned with.

I'm confident that the British get more out of the royal family than they put it. I don't believe this used to be the case, but it is today.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

" I've said this before, if the majority of the Scottish or the Welsh want independence then I'm willing to support their independence movements. I'll support whatever the majority of their population supports and currently that is that they want to be apart of Britain.
(Ian, British Republic, 30 April 2011 00:49)"

Good. Now put your money where your mouth is and convince your recalcitrant government to be as enlightened as you.

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

Don’t forget that the UK is also likely to be seen to have ceased to exist as a country. England will not only be a much smaller country, she will probably have to apply for UN entry (taking the original Yugoslav case as a precedent). Don’t expect her to get past the Russian and Chinese vetoes anytime soon. And oops! She herself will also lose her veto power too! Her fig leaf as a “world power” would be removed forever …….. and THIS I think, rather than the mere technical unconstitutionality that you talked about, is the main reason why London practices its double standards on independence!
(lowe, 1 May 2011 02:18)

Haha so that's why you want the UK to split up, satisfaction for the break up of Yugoslavia and so that London loses it's veto power in the UNSC. Not going to happen mate, you keep on dreaming.

Also did Russia have to reapply for UN membership or UN membership or did they just continue the USSR's membership.

Cymru am Byth!
Alba deo!

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

It sounds to me that you have become a great proponent for self determination, welcome to the Kosovo cause.
(heyhey, 29 April 2011 21:17)

It's not really that, he just wants to see Britain break up so Westminster can have its Just Deserts for supporting Kosovo's independence. That's why he wants the Scottish and the Welsh to want independence even though they don't. He just wants Britain to break up so he can feel good for himself, he doesn't particularly care what the Scottish or Welsh want. I've said this before, if the majority of the Scottish or the Welsh want independence then I'm willing to support their independence movements. I'll support whatever the majority of their population supports and currently that is that they want to be apart of Britain.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"It sounds to me that you have become a great proponent for self determination, welcome to the Kosovo cause.
(heyhey, 29 April 2011 21:17)"

Sure .... the K-Serbs must have the right to secede from Pristina too, especially those in Strpce and north of the Ibar ..... no double standards! Same applies to Srpska, Eskimos of Alaska from Yankee Land if they wish, Quebec from Canada, etc etc

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Peggy

pre 13 godina

Bgannon wrote:


"I support the continuation of the British monarchy on a rational basis. I believe that the monarchy brings in more money in terms of tourism and trade for the UK, than it costs."
=============================

Please don't take this the wrong way. I have heard this argument from someone just the yesterday day at work so I get that some people believe this.
What figures do you base this on? Is this just a gut feeling or do you have some figures to back it up?

I personally don't think that monarchy is relevant today at all. Once upon a time monarchy did have their place as they actually ruled and even went to war for their country but today they have no power and are just window dressing.
I believe we have evolved and don't need them any longer. They certainly don't make me feel all warm and fuzzy because I can't see what purpose they have now except to look pretty and hold functions.
If you look around many countries are doing just fine without them. Take Germany for an example. They are doing very well and are not supporting a firm. France has done away with their monarchy a long time ago and they are doing just fine too. Many examples of how people have grown up and outgrown their monarchs.

Weddings don't come often enough to get people flocking to England to see them.

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion and an opinion based on emotion is also a good one but if it is made on a rational level like yours it awakens my curiosity about the figures that verify that.

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Peggy

pre 13 godina

Pretty nasty comments so far. I wish them well. I don't doubt that there would be gala events such as this in Belgrade if the monarchy was restored. People need a little fantasy once in a while to briefly take them away from their ordinary lives.
(Patrik, 29 April 2011 15:15)
========================

I have no doubt that there would be the same in Belgrade too if monarchy was restored but I think it would be a waste of money to do that.
I believe we have come a long way from needed a king or a queen.
The problem with people is that they are all too ready to be distracted from every day lives. Doesn't solve anything and that is what they count on.

We can get distracted in other ways besides worshiping people who have done nothing for us but being born into a certain family by accident.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"I love hearing weird balkans fantasies about the break-up of Britain.

project much?

or maybe it's some kind of impotent revenge fantasy.

or maybe it's a kind of "see, things are the same everywhere" soother.
(Danilo, 30 April 2011 07:36) "

You love hearing about the break-up of Britain? Then by all means visit B92 threads such as these .....We shall however have to agree to disagree about whether it will ultimately turn out to be fantasy or otherwise ...... and one doesn't have to hail from the Balkans to talk about a UK break-up -- I should know as I am living proof of someone completely outside the Balkans ...... by the way, have you finally uncovered the difference between the ICG and the ICJ? And this ain't no fantasy trivia!

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wee kelpie

pre 13 godina

What a load of 'pish' :-))
All quiet on the Kosovo/Serbia front?
Struggling for attention are we and can't find a suitable thread!

As a brit who is unashamedly a 'mornarchist', yesterdays wedding was not only what one would expect from an experienced establishment, it also bode well for the future of the British Royal Family.

In Kate and Will I believe we finally have what QEII as been hoping for, a modern and vibrant couple who are not trapped in the past.

I, and many others in the UK, wish them well.

Republican mutterings in the UK is just that, mutterings. They have been around as long as I can remember, and before that also.

Remember, the last time Britian had any form of Republican ideas (Commonwealth under that autocratic vandal 'Cromwell') it was not long after that the crown was restored. And for good reason.

The prospect of engaging in another set of canvassing and voting for a President/Head of State type does not appeal to a lot of people.

If it ain't broke................

As for Wales and Scotland, the argument for Welsh independance could be supported, she was conquered after all. As for Scotland, well she sold her soul for Gold to join the Union, a contract is a contract :-))

Rule Brittania..............

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

(lowe, 1 May 2011 02:18)

Also we're not practising double standards because the Scottish and Welsh don't want independence unlike the Kosovars.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"Haha so that's why you want the UK to split up, satisfaction for the break up of Yugoslavia and so that London loses it's veto power in the UNSC. Not going to happen mate, you keep on dreaming.

Also did Russia have to reapply for UN membership or UN membership or did they just continue the USSR's membership.

Cymru am Byth!
Alba deo!
(Ian, British Republic, 1 May 2011 12:22) "

Whether it will happen or not in the future remains to be seen. But I think I am making a correct guess on what really worrries London.

As for the USSR, it imploded BEFORE Yugoslavia did. Nobody at that time disputed Russia as successor to the USSR's seat -- my guess is that the West didn't see the need to that to a Russia that appeared greatly weakened then thanks in part to Yeltsin and his liquor. Putin was low profile and bidding his time at that point.

When the SFRY broke apart later however, a UN resolution was passed that barred its UN seat from being inherited by any of SFRY's former republics. Given that this was a later UN resolution, it should have priority over the USSR resolution as a precedent -- in the same way your country's legal equity supercedes your common laws should they be at variance with each other. Given the realpolitik of today, I wouldn't bet on Russia or China treating England with the same kid's glove that was dealt to Yeltsin. So I wouldn't be so complacent if I were an English person.

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Ian, British Republic

pre 13 godina

Well, notwithstanding your long, almost hysterical tirade (which I had to truncate for practical reason of not wasting space), the only way to really be sure would be to allow a free and fair referendum to settle the independence issue once and for all, right? My point was that if London is really so confident that independence will be rejected, then surely such referendums in Scotland and Wales serve to will democratic vindicate UK’s right to continued union once and for all.

I would respectfully suggest to you that the heavy abuse that you claimed to have got in Wales could indicate your lack of PR skills or your unsuitability for that job. I can’t imagine civilized people during peace time behaving as described by you when asked to democratically support (or not support) a cause – are you sure you are not embellishing the truth?

I didn’t state that Scotland will become independent immediately. But I believe the day will come when the Scots finally do decide to bolt the union and be their own bosses, and your British Republic will only hasten the arrival of that day! Salmond already appears to have 2018 in mind to do what Montenegro did back in 2006 -- with British support I must add.
(lowe, 30 April 2011 02:16)

Just to let you know I have had training in political campaigning and I've had lots of experince of it before. When I have campaigned for elections I've not recived such abuse, but the issue of independence and further autonomy in Wales is a very sensative topic as many people are radically opposed to such ideas.

Even though independence referendums in Scotland and Wales would be uncostitutional (this is why London is opposed to them), I would not be opposed to them. I think it is only fair that the people get to decide their own future. However I am very certain of the outcome if such referendums were to take place. What you have to realise is that Scotland and Wales are not in the Balkans. Everyone doesn't believe that they must be independent and that all ethnicities must live in one country together like the nationalist beliefs in the Balkans.

There has always been independence movements and there always will be, they've not grown in size in recent years they're pretty much the same as they were in the 1960s.

Alex Salmond has already stated that if Scotland does ever achieve independence, Scotland will be in the EU; they'll keep the Queen as the head of state and they'll keep the Pound Stirling as the currency used in Scotland as long as the rest of Britain does. They also already have their own Rugby and Football teams, which are the two biggest sports in Scotland. So this begs the question, whats the point? and this is what many Scots believe. What many Scots want is a bigger Scottish national identity within the British identity as a whole. The same applies to the Welsh too. And I agree, they should have bigger national identity within the British national identity. Personally I believe Welsh should become an offical language of the UK.

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lowe

pre 13 godina

“Just to let you know I have had training in political campaigning and I've had lots of experince of it before. When I have campaigned for elections I've not recived such abuse, but the issue of independence and further autonomy in Wales is a very sensative topic as many people are radically opposed to such ideas. “

If you what you wrote is true, then it would be a humongous dent on the British reputation as a basically gracious society that many people elsewhere have about you guys. Of course you could have also have gone way overboard with your campaigning zeal and did not know when to back off when those people tell you to do so – in which case I think you basically deserved those tons of bricks that fell on you.


“Even though independence referendums in Scotland and Wales would be uncostitutional (this is why London is opposed to them), I would not be opposed to them. I think it is only fair that the people get to decide their own future. However I am very certain of the outcome if such referendums were to take place. What you have to realise is that Scotland and Wales are not in the Balkans. Everyone doesn't believe that they must be independent and that all ethnicities must live in one country together like the nationalist beliefs in the Balkans. “

As I implied to you earlier, then its high time your government stop practicing its despicable double standards about the independence issue for itself and other countries like Serbia.


“There has always been independence movements and there always will be, they've not grown in size in recent years they're pretty much the same as they were in the 1960s. “

That’s no excuse for forbidding the Scots or Welsh from holding their referendum if they should want to do so.


“Alex Salmond has already stated that if Scotland does ever achieve independence, Scotland will be in the EU; they'll keep the Queen as the head of state and they'll keep the Pound Stirling as the currency used in Scotland as long as the rest of Britain does. They also already have their own Rugby and Football teams, which are the two biggest sports in Scotland. So this begs the question, whats the point? and this is what many Scots believe. What many Scots want is a bigger Scottish national identity within the British identity as a whole. The same applies to the Welsh too. And I agree, they should have bigger national identity within the British national identity. Personally I believe Welsh should become an offical language of the UK.
(Ian, British Republic, 30 April 2011 23:20)”

Don’t forget that the UK is also likely to be seen to have ceased to exist as a country. England will not only be a much smaller country, she will probably have to apply for UN entry (taking the original Yugoslav case as a precedent). Don’t expect her to get past the Russian and Chinese vetoes anytime soon. And oops! She herself will also lose her veto power too! Her fig leaf as a “world power” would be removed forever …….. and THIS I think, rather than the mere technical unconstitutionality that you talked about, is the main reason why London practices its double standards on independence!

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lowe

pre 13 godina

"Also we're not practising double standards because the Scottish and Welsh don't want independence unlike the Kosovars.
(Ian, British Republic, 1 May 2011 13:37)"

You personally may not be practising double standards, but your government certainy is when it opposes independence referendums on its own turf only while supporting these referendums in other countries.

The relevant criterion here for double standards is NOT whether the Scots and Welsh want or don't want independence, the relevant criterion is whether London would genuinely allow them to hold these referendums.

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