"U.S. did not green-light Operation Storm"

What a lying scumbag. This is why I am happy to see the US of A sinking into bankruptcy, because of 'diplomats' like this war criminal.
Sure, there was no green light, it's just a coincidence then that there were pre-operation NATO air strikes in Krajina, not to mention training of the Ustashe by US personnel, and supply of arms via Germany and Iran.
People like Galbraith are war criminals of the worst kind, first by committing genocide by helping wipe out an entire people in one weekend, and then by claiming it was legitimate 'defense'.

The Ambassador says that Tudjman's failing was his desire to create a homogeneous Croatia. That means an ethnically pure Croatia. Well, Franjo achieved just that. He did what even the Ustasha in 1941 were unable to do - cleanse Croatia of all its Serb minority.

That was a monstrous war crime that few Croats have been punished for. Two generals in jail is a farce, and from the Croat perspective, a small price to pay for their Nazi dream of an ethnically pure Croatia.

That America supported and aided such a plan is disgusting, despicable and shameful.

What a load of doublespeak from Galbraith.

On the one hand according to him the US did not give the green light to Croatia for Storm (even though everybody Serb/ Croat or anybody else) knows this is a lie. On the other he states that Operation Storm is legitimate. What a cowardly and contrary position to take.

Then he says he doesn't know about the evidence that the guilty verdicts were based on - mainly the Brioni transcripts as we all know, and following this he talks of Tudjman's 'vision' of an 'ethnically homogenised Croatia'. Ironically that vision was that which was discussed at Brioni - and Galbraith claims he doesn't know the evidence.

This is a sad joke and actually its the Croatian people that are being made fools of this time.

american lies again the americans and NATO helped the croats in the war from the air and ground and threatened to bomb serbia if the serbs dont leave krajina and yet the croats cried for help and they had over 250,000 against 60,000 Serbs and yet they needed all this help and for what to take the serbian lands of krajina .that issue is not done because krajina is serbian lands and will get autonomy and eventual independence and now i hear the Italians want istria and Dalmatia back from croatia also because those parts were given to Yugoslavia after ww2 and now there is no yugoslavia so they could take the lands back with ease because the contract is broken and there is no yugoslavia.

Lenard, ivan, mario and other roberto’s,

As you suggest – Serb need to listen and politely sign up for quick transportation to nice place as Jasenovac and let their throats slit or put down heads to be hit with sledge hammers.
And after all that you’re not ashamed to write BS as your previous post and not apologize. That’s shame.
You attacked JNA and Serb population first – but you messed with much stronger opponent not ready to sign up for Jasenovac style places you’re more ready to accept, than Vukovar type response.
Then you cried for help to mamma’s everywhere – NATO, US, papas’ - Germany and Vatican and finally they helped you big time – no-fly zone, arming, logistics – bombing Serbian targets etc – and you did brave fight – killed civilians even they’re leaving as you said as part of your deal – advised to re-locate but not ready to be murdered in process.
Can you just imagine what you nazi- ustache ideology should be able to do – if you were in position to be superior and strong as Serbs were in 1990’s – I got goose bumps just thinking of result – no more Serbs left in Balkans.
But think about that – next time when you starts ball rolling and you masters wont’ be able to help you - maybe Serbian response won’t be as balanced as it was during war in 1990’s.

"I am so sick of having my name used in vain by extremist, nationalist posters, but hey, this is b-92. welcome to the shark tank." (roberto)

-- Then I suggest you either readjust your approach to those on this site, or leave B92 altogether and post somewhere else where people are more biased towards your views. You really need to get off the ego power-trip you have and project in your comments as if people are really interested in what you have to say, or where you've been - particularly after you insult and dismiss an entire nation and its history as the sole responsible agent for all of SE Europe’s misery. You also need to differentiate between the true nationalists on this site (and there are plenty on both sides though you only seem to be affected by the pro-Serbs while happily agreeing with some of the worst offenders on the anti-Serb/pro-Albanian) and those with a more moderate and balanced approach. That you can't interact with even bganon shows you're not really interested in fostering dialogue; but only to push your widely perceived skewed views and to provoke even when it's not necessary. To you, anyone to the right of Natasa Kandic or Sonia Biserko might as well be a Seselj supporter, while followers of some of the most debased Albanian ethnocentrism are simply exhibiting "progressive nationalism" as you one wrote. This is what creates much of the criticism and ridicule towards your posts and your beliefs and it makes it hard, if not comical, to believe you’re anything but another angry misinformed Serbophobe who clings to outdated narratives from the 1990s. You might as well be as abrasive as Lenard or ben. You're not doing anyone any favors with the holier-than-thou approach, especially if you can't even bother to respond to those who really question your views and ask for clarifications or explanations. If you're going to ignore everyone here, and deride the site and its posters as leftover remnants of the Milosevic era while simultaneously turning a blind eye and ear to equally if not more xenophobic and intolerant views from your Albanian "colleagues" then you will continue to be ridiculed every time you post your thoughts.

I say this not to jump on the "anti-roberto" wagon. To be honest, your posts don’t annoy me. I largely ignore you now and don’t think what you write bears anything of substance. But in the spirit of our so-called "Christmas truce" from a few months back, I'd like to extend that to an "Easter truce" and offer some constructive criticism. You can take it as it is and maybe rethink your strategy around here (and I can't remember the last time anyone jumped on pss, Amer, Ment, or other Albanian moderate), or you can ignore this as another example of Serbian nationalism and continue to live loudly in your own world. Either way, no one here knows you outside of what you write, and how you write. No one knows what your job is, and to be fair I think I speak on behalf of a number of people when I say no one cares. I have lots of Serbian friends. They’re good people, all of whom are a far cry from the collective stereotype you put them in. I avoid what you write largely because what you write is both misinformed and insulting to the people I know and are close to. If you get upset that your name and image are frequently targeted here, you've no one other than yourself to blame since you are responsible for what you post.

Germany green lighted it.

Of course there was an American Green Light. Operation Storm was launched the minute The Krajina Serbs signed the Z4 Plan. Galbraith had even given guarantees to Milan Babic that if the Krajina Serbs accepted the Z4 Plan, which they did on August 3, 1995, that the United States would block the Croatian offensive. In stead, what happened was that the Krajina Serbs signed the Z4 Plan, so Croatia walked out of the negotiations and started its military offensive the very next morning, and the United States not only didn't block the Croatian Offensive, the United States PARTICIPATED in it. American war planes bombed RSK missile defense systems during Operation Storm.

For Galbraith and the Hague Tribunal to come along and say there was no green light absolutely strains credulity. And of course the whole purpose of Operation Storm was ETHNIC CLEANSING. That is crystal clear if one reads the transcript of the meeting Tudjman had with his generals before they launched the offensive. Their goal was the expulsion of the civilian population.

You can find the transcript here:
http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/news/smorg042409.html

I got a good chuckle out of Captain Frisco's latest hysterical anti-Serb rant. I find it funny that someone who claims to be a journalist can not even put a proper sentence together or use correct punctuation. Where did you get your journalism degree, in 'Kosova'? lol

I guess the only news-site that is bringing "news" about what this person has said is B92. as if anyone cared what this figure has to say.

Galbraith's hypocrisy is amazing, really. Well, in that case we can all agree that the actions in Kosovo and Metohija by the Serbian forces were legitimate too. Why was Serbia bombed then?

Besides, everyone knows that the USA gave green light for the ‘storm’ action, which is not secret to anyone for many years by now.

’’The former U.S. diplomat went on to say that "Gotovina went to Bosnia after Operation Storm, while the crimes took place later".

So what if he went to Bosnia? Isn’t it so that he was supposed to be held responsible for the action itself and everything that happens during the action and afterwards? Isn’t it so that a commander of some military action is held responsible for the troops under his command and that the commander must know or should know what is going on within his troops? Gotovina must have known or should have known that his troops were committing and committed crimes. He must have known or should have known that his troops were breaching the war customs continuously. Even ex Cro. President Mesic himself claimed few days ago that the then political leadership led by Franjo Tudjman knew about the war crimes committed by the Croats, adding that he was personally present when one of the ministers reported to Tudjman that the Serbian villages in Western Slavonia burn in three shifts.
Of course, according to Galbraith this meant nothing, as it was some picnic event. It might be a picnic compared to Jasenovac, though.

Then he shamelessly continued by describing Tudjman as a good strategist. What is in Galbraith’s opinion good strategy? Is it Tudjman’s usthasa policy when it comes to ethnic cleansing and genocide? I can even bet that according to this American hypocrite- Pavelic was very good strategist too. Most probably yes. How else to understand Washington’s and Brussels’ stand when giving a green light to the Croats to commit ethnic cleansing and brutal killings of the Serbs the second time in the 20th Century. I presume that Jasenovac and other concentration camps in Croatia during WWII are well known fact in Washington and Brussels as well as usthasa’s policy of 1/3 when it comes to solving a ''Serbian question'' in Croatia. That policy actually never ceased to exist in minds of Croats. At the beginning of the civil war in ex Yu, precisely in Croatia, the ustasha's policy has been resurrected. I wonder who would have wanted to live in such state of horror and amongst bloodthirsty leadership and citizens. Does Galbraith suggest that the Serbs should have peacefully waited for new genocide to happen? That would have been legitimate too, I suppose. Am I right, Mr Galbraith?!

Washington’s hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.

“
NATO's original estimate of 100,000 ethnic Albanians slaughtered, later revised downward to 10,000, turns out to be considerably exaggerated.
Dr. Peter Markesteyn, a Winnipeg forensic pathologist, was among the first war crimes investigators to arrive in Kosovo after NATO ended its bombing campaign.
"We were told there were 100,000 bodies everywhere," said Dr. Markesteyn. "We performed 1,800 autopsies -- that's it."
Fewer than 2,000 corpses. None found in the Trepca mines. No remains in the vats of sulphuric acid. Most found in isolated graves -- not in the mass graves NATO warned about. And no clue as to whether the bodies were those of KLA fighters, civilians, even whether they were Serbs or ethnic Albanians.
No wonder then that of all the incidents on which Slobodan Milosevic has been indicted for war crimes, the total body count is not 100,000, not 10,000, not even 1,800 -- but 391!
…

Moreover, the one pre-bombing incident, the Racak massacre -- which the United States cited as a major reason for the bombing campaign -- is more likely to have been faked by the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), the guerilla army the Serbs were ensnared in a bloody civil war with, than to have represented the cold-blooded killing of ethnic Albanian non-combatants, as the KLA, and Washington's man in Kosovo at the time, William Walker, alleged.
It was Walker, at the time head of the Kosovo Verification Mission (KVM) who, on the morning of January 16, 1999, led the press to the Kosovar village of Racak, a KLA stronghold. There some 20 bodies were found in a shallow trench, and 20 more were found scattered throughout the village. The KLA, and Walker, alleged that masked Serb policemen had entered the village the previous day, and killed men, women and children at close range, after torturing and mutilating them. Chillingly, the Serb police were said to have whistled merrily as they went about their work of slaughtering the villagers.
It was a horrible tableau, sure to whip up the indignation of the world -- and it did.
Clinton's Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, as eager to scratch her ever itchy trigger finger as her boss was to scratch his illimitable sexual itches, demanded that Yugoslavia be bombed immediately. Albright, like a kid agonizingly counting down the hours to Christmas, would have to wait until after Milosevic's rejection of NATO's ultimata at Rambouillet to get her wish.
Bill Clinton, not to be surpassed in expressing indignation, said, "We should remember what happened in the village of Racak...Innocent men, women, and children were taken from their homes to a gully, forced to kneel in the dirt, sprayed with gunfire -- not because of anything they had done, but because of who they were."
But not everyone was so sure that Walker's story was to be believed. The French newspaper La Monde had some trouble swallowing the story. It reported on Jan. 21, 1999, a few days after the incident, that an Associated Press TV crew had filmed a gun battle at Racak between Serb police and KLA guerillas. Indeed, the crew was present because the Serbs had tipped them off that they were going to enter the village to arrest a man accused of shooting a police officer. Also present were two teams of KVM monitors.
It seems unlikely that if you're about to carry out a massacre that you would invite the press -- and international observers -- to watch.
The film showed that as soon as the Serbs entered Racak they came under heavy fire from KLA guerillas positioned in the surrounding hills. The idea that the police could dig a trench and then kill villagers at close range while under attack troubled La Monde. So too did the fact that, entering the village after the fire fight to assess the damage and interview the villagers, the KVM observers saw no sign of a massacre. What's more, the villagers said nothing about a massacre either.
Yet, when Walker returned the next day with the press -- at the KLA's invitation -- there was the trench with the bodies.
Could the police have returned later on and carried out the massacre under cover of darkness?
That seems unlikely. Racak is a KLA stronghold. Serb police had already discovered that if they were going to enter the village they would have to deal with the guerillas. How could they torture, mutilate and cold-bloodedly kill villagers at close range while harassed by KLA gunfire?
And why, wondered La Monde, were there few signs of spent cartridges and blood at the trench?
And now there's a report that the Finnish forensic pathologists who investigated the incident on behalf of the European Union, say there was no evidence of a massacre. In an article to be published in Forensic Science International at the end of February, the Finnish team writes that none of the bodies were mutilated, there was no evidence of torture, and only one was shot at close range.
Thirty-seven of the corpses had gunpowder residue on their hands, suggesting that they had been using firearms, and only one of the corpses was a woman, and only one was under 15 years of age. Not the picture Clinton painted of innocent men, women and children, dragged from their homes, and sprayed with gunfire.
…
And the first question patriots should ask themselves is why our leaders lied about Kosovo -- and why they continue to lie about it today?
Mr. Steve Gowans is a writer and political activist who lives in Ottawa, Canada.
Source:
“
So let us stop talking about Rasak as an example of anything other than a lie.
Afterall, we must take the opinion of a Canadian -- the world's peace keepers -- at face value, or what have we left?

What a difference when Serbs left Croatia it was organized and ordered by its leadership the Serbs taking their valuables and the Croatian army leaving safe corridors for Serbs to use. In comparison the Serbs would bomb murder the refugee columns of other nationalities capture them send them to concentration camps and many women to rape camps and murdered their mentally and some physically in their own countrys http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/27/radovankaradzic.warcrimes2. The others they would be terrorize kill in their own countrys that Serbs occupied violently put guns to their head demand all their valuables before they let them leave with only the close on their back. The verdict against the two Croatians generals has so many flaws even in law it dose not stand up. Never trust the west how many times have they screwed the east and their treaties are worthless.

Lenard never trust the west, does that mean you trust the east? Oh, does that mean you trust your neighbours? Oh, do you trust anybody?

Well maybe if you don't trust anybody you should ask yourself why they don't like you.

In the case of Croatian Serbs they had something called a genocide which gave them every reason not to trust Croats. I thought you of all people would understand that.

But hey, don't let me get in the way of your simplistic viewpoint. Serbs - evil, Croats - mostly good (except when they try to tear Bosnia to pieces) Bosnia good (thats also confusing because Bosnians can't be good because they include Serbs and Croats who want to tear it apart and Bosniak nationalists).

But the reality is - Serbs, Croats, Bosnians same s--t, different packaging. Once you face that fact you might be able to find a little more peace in your life.

Roberto,

Obviously I hit your nerve – right spot. Truth hurts I know – you answered with long post to fight back – but again you show the most hate we can see on this blog – totally opposite for person you are trying to sell yourself for here.
For instance – all facts – Jasenovac, Marty’s report and end result of this war(s) – Serbs cleaned from Krajina, Sarajevo, Kosovo and you called it all Bla, bla, bla.
And you’re stressing couple thousand people paid price for attacking, Jugoslavia, Serbs and JNA – started war as your idol Mesic claimed – to attack and destroy Jugoslavia – Boljkovac confirmed – and you are trying ignoring it and twisting facts.
You can’t win against truth – Roberto – it will all haunt you at the end – I don’t know how you can sleep selling your BS even In Serbia – what a wonderful country – you can come to Belgrade and sell your paranoia and hate in hearth of Serbia – democracy works a???

Lenard.
I opened your link and it doesn't say anything about "the loyal Croatian Serbs 300,000 of Croatia stayed and defended their homes with their neighbours from Grater Belgrade Serbia ethnic cleansing murder pogroms"

Where did you get that?

At the moment of UN arrival, there was 110,000 refugees registered by UNHCR on the territory controlled by Croatia. Those were mostly refugees cleansed from Knin, Vukovar, etc.
There was also 170,000 refugees from Croatia, mosty Serbs, running away from Croatian controlled territory.
This is official data.

Link that you have provided is very pro-Croatian biased, I would say, but it claims no such thing that you quoted.
Here is part of the article.

"The historical record suggests that Operation Storm was undertaken with callous disregard for the welfare of civilians in the area, virtually all of whom by that time were Serbs. For that the convicted defendants were undoubtedly morally responsible. Before the Yugoslavian wars began, Krajina was ethnically mixed; some 80,000 Croats were expelled from the region between August and December 1991. When the shells began raining indiscriminately down in people’s gardens on 4 August 1995, the Balkan cycle of revenge was complete. "

Writer admits that "Operation Storm was undertaken with callous disregard for the welfare of civilians". It's the mild language, but let's go with it.
Then he goes to say "When the shells began raining indiscriminately down in people’s gardens on 4 August 1995, the Balkan cycle of revenge was complete. "

Something that Roberto suggest too.

"...there was certinly ethnic cleansing in "storm" the question also arises: what evils did it stop or react to?"

Krajina was cleansed of Croats, and this was only a reaction. Just like in article "...the Balkan cycle of revenge was complete. "

Here one would have to wonder what was action and what was reaction?

First homes not only in Croatia, but in all of former Yugoslavia were hundereds of Serb homes burned on May 2nd 1991 in Sibenik and Zadar (Croatian controlled territory). First massive expulsion of population based on ethnicity was in Slavonski Brod where all the Serbs were given 48 hours to leave. This was Croatian controlled territorry, Serbs were minority, they never claimed to be part of Krajina or anything like that. Croatian military moved afterward, and burned all the villages.
etc. etc.

Lenard, if you really want to know what was the fate of Serbs in Croatia, including most of the loyal ones, here is a nice link for Amnesty International Report.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR64/005/2004/en/df4d5196-d54c-11dd-8a23-d58a49c0d652/eur640052004en.html

They choose Sisak as "illustrative example" of what was going on all over Croatia.

"Crimes committed in Sisak, relatively little known outside of Croatia, were chosen as illustrative examples of a widespread pattern of violations committed against the civilian population allegedly by members of the Croatian Army and police forces. "

It starts "Between 1991 and 1992 Croatian Serbs in Sisak and in the surrounding area became victims of a campaign of killings, abductions, "disappearances", assaults and threats. I"

They stressed that all cases are well documented.

"On the evening of 22 August 1991 Croatian Serb Miljenko Ðapa, a worker at the Sisak oil refinery, was arrested by armed men in his home."

Later found dead 20 km away from Sisak.

Here is a nice example of a Serb loyal to Croatia (he even signed loyalty oath )

"On 13 September 1991 the family home of Croatian Serb Damjan Žiliæ in the small town of Petrinja was bombarded with machine guns and hand grenades, allegedly by members of the Croatian Army. Damjan Žiliæ, aged 52, a chemical engineer and chief of production at the INA oil refinery in Sisak, was not injured, but the house was considerably damaged."

Why?

"Although he was not a member of any political party, and had signed an oath of loyalty to the Republic of Croatia, he was aware of hostility at his place of work, apparently based on his nationality (the security guards had on a number of occasions refused him entry to the premises). "

Not member of political party, signed an oath...but didn't feel to safe in Sisak.

"After the attack on their home, he and his wife (an ethnic Croat) moved to Zagreb. "

His wife was ethnic Croat, this man can hardly be called Serbian nationalist, you will agree.
So, what happen to him in Zagreb?

"On 23 November 1991 he was abducted from outside his home in Novi Zagreb. Reportedly, he was killed by blows to the head and his body was thrown in the Sava River."

It's not some Serbian propaganda, but Amnesty International.

But, the link you have provided, Lenard, has something related to Gailbrath's statement.

"Less well known about Operation Storm is that the US Government approved it, planned it, trained Croat forces in preparation for it and provided intelligence, air support and jamming of Serb telecommunications. The course of events was streamed live to the Pentagon."

Same American team trained the Croats and later the Georgians. Saakashvili was very interested in the practice of the Storm operation and studied it in very details. So if there was no formal US green light it makes no difference. The US has sponsored and encouraged the massacre and let the Ustasha ideology to come out. But anyway I believe that it was not Haague Tribunal but thousands of protesting Serbs with Toma at their head who have influenced the fate of Gotovina. The emergency anti Serb headquarters has already started to work and the artificially boosted scandal over the hunger strike is the best evidence. It’s time to decide what is better for you - a horrible end or endless horror.

--"Lenard, ivan, mario and other roberto’s,
As you suggest – Serb need to listen and politely sign up for quick transportation to nice place as Jasenovac and let their throats slit or put down heads to be hit with sledge hammers.
And after all that you’re not ashamed to write BS as your previous post and not apologize. That’s shame... bla bla bla" (dd)--

I am so sick of having my name used in vain by extremist, nationalist posters, but hey, this is b-92. welcome to the shark tank.

as for "ethnic cleansing" (genocide), i have always fought it in whatever ways i can, unlike you typical nationalists. first of all it is immoral and evil. more to the point, my extended family was butchered due to "ethnic cleansing" (genocide), probably 100 of them in the middle of lovely poland during ww2. so don't ever fricken lecture me about "ethnic cleansing" (genocide).

unlike some others here, i do consider the removal of 100s of thousands of people, in this case serbs from croatia, to be a form of ethnic cleansing. not to mention the "left-overs" (generally old and infirm) that were plain out murdered at the end of the campaign. whether or not the generals convicted at the hague were responsible for the killings, however, i still am not sure. and who "ordered" the mass exodus is another question not dealt with. one way or another, they were all victims of the milosevic program.

whether or not the americans technically gave the green light or not to "storm," that's how it was understood, and we have to take some responsibility for it, for better and for worse.

certainly tudjman was no friend for me, no ally, no hero. at the very least, he had strong fascist tendencies. he was actually a pal, an ally (of sorts) to yr beloved milosevic. izetbegovic (Sr) famously said that living in bosnia, between a milosevic and a tudjman, was like having to choose between leukemia and a brain tumor. and about that he was spot-on.

altho there was certinly ethnic cleansing in "storm" the question also arises: what evils did it stop or react to? this is what i (and others) have made clear in former texts. the serbs of croatia, under the direction of slobo and his willing executioners, had been busily engaged in ethnic cleansing since 1991, and doing so with pride and gusto.

one of their street names was famously changed to the name of the assassin of stjepan radic, murdered, in 1928, in the middle of yugoslavia's parliament (Puniša Račić was the serbian politician-assassin.) that's just one nasty symbol of what the serb-croatian "republic" was about. think republika srpska in the midst of croatia.

then there is the (unspoken) issue of the continuing "ethnic cleansing" by serb terror forces in bosnia. that had been in full tilt since 1992, planned and pushed along primarily by milosevic and his willing executioners (esp karadzic/mladic). Storm actually halted that mass murder in its tracks, which was a very good thing, unless you support genocide against "Untermenschen" which i do not.

as for your "Ustashe and Jasenovac" references -- that was certainly an odious and evil part of croatia's history, and should never be forgotten. neither should the crimes by serbia's fascist regime during the war, who worked alongside the nazis to help exterminate serbia's jews and other "undesirables." nor should the crimes of the notorious chetniks ever be forgotten, or "rehabilitated." they specialized in the butchering of civilians with their nice long, sharp knives: bosnian muslims, but also jews, croats, partisans...

the full truth about ww2 is never told in these pages, just the usual lies and 1/2 truths.

But even worse, certain aspects were (and still are) instrumentalized to rationalize and further fascism in the 90s, especially the milosevic/karadzic,mladic program. 1990s serbian television was chock-full of horrifying images of ustashe massacres and certain crimes fr ww2, in order to convince the "common people" to join in the newest round of killing and "ethnic cleansing." it was absolutely mind-numbing, as anyone alive at that time in serbia will attest to -- if they are honest.

even as late as 1999, i was receiving serbian nationalist/milosevic propaganda, this time via the internet, from my "frnd" in novi sad: supposed testimony from a serbian jew who, as a small child, had "almost been burned alive in jasenovac." of course i had no idea, then or now, whether that indivulal's story was accurate or made up from whole cloth. but during the middle of serbia's ethnic cleansing program (mass murder/deportation/rape) in kosova?? that was some sick instrumentalizing.

ww2, or milosevic and company's version of it, did quite a mind trip on the serbian population. sonia biserko told us when she interviewed many of the refugees from storm, they were NOT speaking about atrocities from that current war; they were speaking about atrocities from ww2! perhaps some of those memories were real and still vivid, but at the very least they were pushed along by the incessant propaganda hate campaign, much along the lines of yr posting.

meanwhile, though the extreme serbian nationalists here claim to be against "ethnic cleansing" (at least of serbs), they kind of forget(?) about how their govt still harbors mass-murderer mladic, who continues to reside in serbia according to every single person we spoke with last month in serbia, including a member of parliament!

not to mention the refusal of the blgd regime to investigate/tell the truth about the mass burnings of albanian bodies during spring 1999, at trepca, mackatica, and perhaps other sites in southern serbia. we have completed a 23 page report about said atrocities and circulated it within certain circles there. but of course their war-crimes prosecutor's office (so-called) was uninterested, as well as most of their so-called media.

while i do respect certain individual, brave and intrepid journalists there, in general the press is simply aligned with political parties, and utterly unwilling to do independent, investigative work. oh from the truth they do run.

but of course they are more than able to keep pushing the Marty SMEAR report, 3 times a day! in their so-called news section. that's their media, "post" milosevic.

tung!

roberto
frisco

Mike,

Amen! I truly admire your completely open and honest suggestions to hate mogul "Roberto", but it is very likely that all your well-meant efforts will be completely in vain. Roberto has been beyond saving for a long long time. We have to accept that he and his kind will keep polluting this site and all we can do is learn from our adversaries.

Well, that was silly. What little credibility you had here, Roberto, is now officially finished. Mike has always been one of the most reasonable and articulate voices in these forums. Launching that little petty attack has just proven his point. He criticises you on valid grounds and you accuse him of being in cahoots with Serb nationalists.

But please keep coming here as much as you want. Your ridiculous self-righteousness always gives us all a good chuckle. You are now the laughing stock of this place. Besides, I always love to hear from Norberto apologising for your rants.

Tongue!

Who sold them the arms ?
All former presidents from all ex republics were crazy nationalists.
Those who really should be punished are all dead now !

RE: Double talk from Peter Gailbrath

Of course the US gave the green light to attack Krajina in concert with Milosevic who was told not to send troops and in fact ordered the Serbian Generals to pull out from Krajina. Did he sell out Krajina? No, he did not, Babich and Martic sold out Krajina and the Croatian Serbs. There were offers on the table for an autonomous region within Croatia, duly not accepted by the Krajina parliament and leadership. Contrary to the mass propoganda against Milosevic, he urged them to take the deal, they did not.


As for the legality of attacking the Krajina frontier, Tudjman cross the UN lines and killed Canadian soldiers and to this day has not been held accountable for the murder of UN civilians.

"roberto" upload this special report you passed around and provide us the link. you were in Serbia? take pictures of your hotel bill/rented apartment bill and put them on tinypic.com, if you can not do something that simple (block out your vital info ie name/creditcard numbers etc)) then no one will believe any of the lies you constantly spew on this site

The Ambassador says that Tudjman's failing was his desire to create a homogeneous Croatia. That means an ethnically pure Croatia. Well, Franjo achieved just that. He did what even the Ustasha in 1941 were unable to do - cleanse Croatia of all its Serb minority.

That was a monstrous war crime that few Croats have been punished for. Two generals in jail is a farce, and from the Croat perspective, a small price to pay for their Nazi dream of an ethnically pure Croatia.

That America supported and aided such a plan is disgusting, despicable and shameful.
(Nicholas Thompson, 25 April 2011 15:19) The rebel Serbs left when they lost. Before that murdering their Croatian neighbours by the thousands summarily executed other Croatians ethnically cleansed 99.9% in their own country that rebels chetnoids ,communist Yugo/Serb army occupied 30% of Croatia. That Belgrade Serbia duped to take arms against their neighbours and the rebel Serbs took on with fanatic gusto likes not seen since WW2. The loyal Croatian Serbs 300,000 of Croatia stayed and defended their homes with their neighbours from Grater Belgrade Serbia ethnic cleansing murder pogroms http://www.transconflict.com/2011/04/ante-gotovina-and-the-politics-of-international-justice-194/.

Mike, beautifully put. I could not agree more.

Roberto, you long ago became a complete parody of yourself. Your lengthy posts are truly tedious and self-referential. Most of us just don't bother anymore as we know that there will be nothing of any substance. You have a completely negative attitude towards Serbia and the Serbs. Nothing that happens can ever be positive. Yes, mistakes have been made. Yes, horrific crimes have been committed. But Serbia is not the only country to have done so. You seem wholly incapable of recognising that the history of the Balkan wars of the 1990s is currently in the process of being rewritten. The uncritical line that 'Serbia was responsible for everything' is finally being challenged. A more balanced and nuanced picture is emerging where no one comes out looking particularly good. Until you can recognise that, you will have no real credibility as an informed voice on the region. Instead, you will just be painted as a Serbophobe and continue to be laughed at for your pompous, self-important posts.

Also, you might want to think of using some proper punctuation. Writing everything in lower case is actually really annoying. It also makes your writing style all the more easy to imitate for those who would have a laugh at your expense.

One more question for Roberto, and I would really like you to answer it.

"one of their street names was famously changed to the name of the assassin of stjepan radic, murdered, in 1928, in the middle of yugoslavia's parliament (Puniša Račić was the serbian politician-assassin.) that's just one nasty symbol of what the serb-croatian "republic" was about. "

There is a wrong adress - Punisa Racic was not Serbian, he was from Montenegro.
But, he did commit a crime - he assassinated Stjepan Radic.
You are right. Naming a street after him can tell us what was this "republic" (Krajina) all about.

But, this did not happen before one of the major squares in Zagreb was renamed Mile Budak square.
To remind you, Mile Budak was one of the chief ideologists and propagandists in WW2 Croatia and minister in WW2 Ustasha government.
He was best know for a plan he created. He created the Croatian national plan to get rid of Orthodox Serbs by killing one third, expelling one third and assimilating the rest.
And square in Zagreb was named after him in 1990, after Tudjman's election victory.
I really want to hear your interpretation, Roberto.
What can that tell us about this republic (Croatia)?

There is a strong possibility that Belgrade is the country that gave Croatia the green light in Operation Storm. It's called dirty politics and the truth will be revealed eventually.

There is a strong possibility that Belgrade is the country that gave Croatia the green light in Operation Storm. It's called dirty politics and the truth will be revealed eventually.
(Gojko, 25 April 2011 21:12)

You're absolutely right. Without Milosevic' blessing 'Oluja' would have never happened. Milosevic gave up so called 'republika krajina' to get 'republika srpska'. It's a known fact for those who are open minded.

What do u mean by: "U.S. did not green-light Operation Storm", just because some american ambassador says so? U better send your journalists to do some decent work. This ain't journalisnm, it's cheap propaganda!

--I say this not to jump on the "anti-roberto" wagon... (mike)--

actualy, mike, you were one of the first here to engage in personal attacks against me, one particularly vicious attack that was repeated here again and again and again. and you've made many other ugly personal attacks against those with whom you disagree (trolls! bla bla bla). don't bother to deny it, it's all in the record. your use of "troll" is legendary.

if you (and others) really had high motives, you would stick to issues. i have just brought up numerous ones in my last posting, but you have chosen your usual route, even on easter. you may wish to stick to issues, esp.ly if you wish to retain some credibility, esp.ly with some of us (not just yr usual nationalist pals.)

as far as bganon goes, not that it is any of yr business, but both of us are former otpor members, and have ended up in very different places. he even describes himself as "moderate" nationalist. i don't personally go after him, or anyone else here for that matter, unless they go after me. (like you have, at times, and the usual crap from ataman and peggy types.) i am not interested in sparring with individuals -- that might be yr style, but is not mine. i speak of issues, and i write it as i see it. here, in this shark tank, it means i will be attacked, by you and others, bigtime. b-92 ALways prints those attacks, while frequently censoring my own postings and those of other dissidents (to this site.) whether you believe this or anything else i say is totally beside the point -- i don't really care.

the underlying subtext you and others put out is that this here (b-92) is a level playing field, though it is anything but. and you know it.

also, the frequent diversions and personal attacks, aside from being anti-intellectual and immature, are simply distractions, and ways made to cut off free speech. it works sometimes -- i have watched informal campaigns launched ag. individuals deemed enemies of the People (from the nationalists perspectives.) and yes, such campaigns are sometimes successful -- people, normal people, are simply worn down. but shame on you! and others that have engaged in such frankly fascist tactics.

I, on the other hand, have had many (many) years of experience as a dissident, in our anti-war movement, various civil-rights and human-rights struggles. years. as participant and sometimes organizer. i am what you might call a free speech advocate. and i have here, on many occasions, encouraged dissidents to continue to write , not to be intimidated, not to be scared away. dissidents and minorites. stand up for what you know is right! tell the truth of your own experiences.

i am waiting for you to discuss some of the issues i brought up (if you are actually wanting to be a serious contributor) -- the issues around op. storm, for example, the issues around the recent serbian-kosovar negotiations, the mass graves sites (such as raska), the situation of the body-burnings from 1999. there are so many other issues of substance, if you choose to discuss them, rather than focusing on intimidating me (and others) from writing here.

actually, i have been coming (via the internet) to b-92 since 1999, and on a regular basis. which is as long or longer than most anyone here. but it was a VERY different b-92 back then; that's the elephant in the room. at that time, i depended on it for news about political prisoners, such as flora brovina, albin kurt, miroslav filipovic... remember them?

in fact, we just saw and interviewed miroslav and his daughter; they are the most amazing people. he paid bigtime for his truth-telling under milosevic, nearly with his life. kostunica was pressured to let him and others free, and his health gradually improved. eventually he set to work training other young people in journalism, with a special emphasis on young albanians and bosniaks inside serbia. one of them is the young woman i mentioned who has just produced this dynamic new documentary on albanian hisotory. it is excellent, though the english subtitles, as i mentioned, are wanting. and yes, i have agreed to edit them, which is way too much work, but there you are.

if you choose not to believe what i write, then there is really no need to waste our time talking, right? but if you are serious about these matters, then you should really think about what i (and other dissidents) write, rather than just attempt to shut us up. xmas, easter, passover, whatever.

as for our 23 page report, it is already on the internet, but i have no idea if those "nice" people at b-92 will allow it. other times my articles have been silenced (here). we are still hoping that Pescanik will carry it. in the meantime, i will try to forward it here.

it is really a sad statement on the media there (as i have alluded to) that the mainstream belgd post ran away from us, rather than even look at the report. as if they were terrified. my frnd (kos alb) was even a bit upset with me, since after my questions at the press conference his serbian journalist "frnd" disappeared. "suddenly." a sick fever, something like that. i don't entirely blame him -- there is so much pressure there to conform, especially in the media. he has to live there, and make a living, keep frnds, etc. i can return to my "comfy" existence here in bohemian california, where people hardly know what serbia is ("Slovakia"? just asked a well-educated acquaintance.) so i do understand, but still, journalists carry some responsibility...

anyway, i very seldom spend time responding to persons on the other side, especially those who have attacked me, repeatedly. but it is easter, and yes, in the spirit of what we have previously discussed, i am willing to make an exception this time.

tung.

roberto
frisco

--"Lenard, ivan, mario and other roberto’s,
As you suggest – Serb need to listen and politely sign up for quick transportation to nice place as Jasenovac and let their throats slit or put down heads to be hit with sledge hammers.
And after all that you’re not ashamed to write BS as your previous post and not apologize. That’s shame... bla bla bla" (dd)--

I am so sick of having my name used in vain by extremist, nationalist posters, but hey, this is b-92. welcome to the shark tank.

as for "ethnic cleansing" (genocide), i have always fought it in whatever ways i can, unlike you typical nationalists. first of all it is immoral and evil. more to the point, my extended family was butchered due to "ethnic cleansing" (genocide), probably 100 of them in the middle of lovely poland during ww2. so don't ever fricken lecture me about "ethnic cleansing" (genocide).

unlike some others here, i do consider the removal of 100s of thousands of people, in this case serbs from croatia, to be a form of ethnic cleansing. not to mention the "left-overs" (generally old and infirm) that were plain out murdered at the end of the campaign. whether or not the generals convicted at the hague were responsible for the killings, however, i still am not sure. and who "ordered" the mass exodus is another question not dealt with. one way or another, they were all victims of the milosevic program.

whether or not the americans technically gave the green light or not to "storm," that's how it was understood, and we have to take some responsibility for it, for better and for worse.

certainly tudjman was no friend for me, no ally, no hero. at the very least, he had strong fascist tendencies. he was actually a pal, an ally (of sorts) to yr beloved milosevic. izetbegovic (Sr) famously said that living in bosnia, between a milosevic and a tudjman, was like having to choose between leukemia and a brain tumor. and about that he was spot-on.

altho there was certinly ethnic cleansing in "storm" the question also arises: what evils did it stop or react to? this is what i (and others) have made clear in former texts. the serbs of croatia, under the direction of slobo and his willing executioners, had been busily engaged in ethnic cleansing since 1991, and doing so with pride and gusto.

one of their street names was famously changed to the name of the assassin of stjepan radic, murdered, in 1928, in the middle of yugoslavia's parliament (Puniša Račić was the serbian politician-assassin.) that's just one nasty symbol of what the serb-croatian "republic" was about. think republika srpska in the midst of croatia.

then there is the (unspoken) issue of the continuing "ethnic cleansing" by serb terror forces in bosnia. that had been in full tilt since 1992, planned and pushed along primarily by milosevic and his willing executioners (esp karadzic/mladic). Storm actually halted that mass murder in its tracks, which was a very good thing, unless you support genocide against "Untermenschen" which i do not.

as for your "Ustashe and Jasenovac" references -- that was certainly an odious and evil part of croatia's history, and should never be forgotten. neither should the crimes by serbia's fascist regime during the war, who worked alongside the nazis to help exterminate serbia's jews and other "undesirables." nor should the crimes of the notorious chetniks ever be forgotten, or "rehabilitated." they specialized in the butchering of civilians with their nice long, sharp knives: bosnian muslims, but also jews, croats, partisans...

the full truth about ww2 is never told in these pages, just the usual lies and 1/2 truths.

But even worse, certain aspects were (and still are) instrumentalized to rationalize and further fascism in the 90s, especially the milosevic/karadzic,mladic program. 1990s serbian television was chock-full of horrifying images of ustashe massacres and certain crimes fr ww2, in order to convince the "common people" to join in the newest round of killing and "ethnic cleansing." it was absolutely mind-numbing, as anyone alive at that time in serbia will attest to -- if they are honest.

even as late as 1999, i was receiving serbian nationalist/milosevic propaganda, this time via the internet, from my "frnd" in novi sad: supposed testimony from a serbian jew who, as a small child, had "almost been burned alive in jasenovac." of course i had no idea, then or now, whether that indivulal's story was accurate or made up from whole cloth. but during the middle of serbia's ethnic cleansing program (mass murder/deportation/rape) in kosova?? that was some sick instrumentalizing.

ww2, or milosevic and company's version of it, did quite a mind trip on the serbian population. sonia biserko told us when she interviewed many of the refugees from storm, they were NOT speaking about atrocities from that current war; they were speaking about atrocities from ww2! perhaps some of those memories were real and still vivid, but at the very least they were pushed along by the incessant propaganda hate campaign, much along the lines of yr posting.

meanwhile, though the extreme serbian nationalists here claim to be against "ethnic cleansing" (at least of serbs), they kind of forget(?) about how their govt still harbors mass-murderer mladic, who continues to reside in serbia according to every single person we spoke with last month in serbia, including a member of parliament!

not to mention the refusal of the blgd regime to investigate/tell the truth about the mass burnings of albanian bodies during spring 1999, at trepca, mackatica, and perhaps other sites in southern serbia. we have completed a 23 page report about said atrocities and circulated it within certain circles there. but of course their war-crimes prosecutor's office (so-called) was uninterested, as well as most of their so-called media.

while i do respect certain individual, brave and intrepid journalists there, in general the press is simply aligned with political parties, and utterly unwilling to do independent, investigative work. oh from the truth they do run.

but of course they are more than able to keep pushing the Marty SMEAR report, 3 times a day! in their so-called news section. that's their media, "post" milosevic.

tung!

roberto
frisco

What a difference when Serbs left Croatia it was organized and ordered by its leadership the Serbs taking their valuables and the Croatian army leaving safe corridors for Serbs to use. In comparison the Serbs would bomb murder the refugee columns of other nationalities capture them send them to concentration camps and many women to rape camps and murdered their mentally and some physically in their own countrys http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/27/radovankaradzic.warcrimes2. The others they would be terrorize kill in their own countrys that Serbs occupied violently put guns to their head demand all their valuables before they let them leave with only the close on their back. The verdict against the two Croatians generals has so many flaws even in law it dose not stand up. Never trust the west how many times have they screwed the east and their treaties are worthless.

The Ambassador says that Tudjman's failing was his desire to create a homogeneous Croatia. That means an ethnically pure Croatia. Well, Franjo achieved just that. He did what even the Ustasha in 1941 were unable to do - cleanse Croatia of all its Serb minority.

That was a monstrous war crime that few Croats have been punished for. Two generals in jail is a farce, and from the Croat perspective, a small price to pay for their Nazi dream of an ethnically pure Croatia.

That America supported and aided such a plan is disgusting, despicable and shameful.
(Nicholas Thompson, 25 April 2011 15:19) The rebel Serbs left when they lost. Before that murdering their Croatian neighbours by the thousands summarily executed other Croatians ethnically cleansed 99.9% in their own country that rebels chetnoids ,communist Yugo/Serb army occupied 30% of Croatia. That Belgrade Serbia duped to take arms against their neighbours and the rebel Serbs took on with fanatic gusto likes not seen since WW2. The loyal Croatian Serbs 300,000 of Croatia stayed and defended their homes with their neighbours from Grater Belgrade Serbia ethnic cleansing murder pogroms http://www.transconflict.com/2011/04/ante-gotovina-and-the-politics-of-international-justice-194/.

The Ambassador says that Tudjman's failing was his desire to create a homogeneous Croatia. That means an ethnically pure Croatia. Well, Franjo achieved just that. He did what even the Ustasha in 1941 were unable to do - cleanse Croatia of all its Serb minority.

That was a monstrous war crime that few Croats have been punished for. Two generals in jail is a farce, and from the Croat perspective, a small price to pay for their Nazi dream of an ethnically pure Croatia.

That America supported and aided such a plan is disgusting, despicable and shameful.

--I say this not to jump on the "anti-roberto" wagon... (mike)--

actualy, mike, you were one of the first here to engage in personal attacks against me, one particularly vicious attack that was repeated here again and again and again. and you've made many other ugly personal attacks against those with whom you disagree (trolls! bla bla bla). don't bother to deny it, it's all in the record. your use of "troll" is legendary.

if you (and others) really had high motives, you would stick to issues. i have just brought up numerous ones in my last posting, but you have chosen your usual route, even on easter. you may wish to stick to issues, esp.ly if you wish to retain some credibility, esp.ly with some of us (not just yr usual nationalist pals.)

as far as bganon goes, not that it is any of yr business, but both of us are former otpor members, and have ended up in very different places. he even describes himself as "moderate" nationalist. i don't personally go after him, or anyone else here for that matter, unless they go after me. (like you have, at times, and the usual crap from ataman and peggy types.) i am not interested in sparring with individuals -- that might be yr style, but is not mine. i speak of issues, and i write it as i see it. here, in this shark tank, it means i will be attacked, by you and others, bigtime. b-92 ALways prints those attacks, while frequently censoring my own postings and those of other dissidents (to this site.) whether you believe this or anything else i say is totally beside the point -- i don't really care.

the underlying subtext you and others put out is that this here (b-92) is a level playing field, though it is anything but. and you know it.

also, the frequent diversions and personal attacks, aside from being anti-intellectual and immature, are simply distractions, and ways made to cut off free speech. it works sometimes -- i have watched informal campaigns launched ag. individuals deemed enemies of the People (from the nationalists perspectives.) and yes, such campaigns are sometimes successful -- people, normal people, are simply worn down. but shame on you! and others that have engaged in such frankly fascist tactics.

I, on the other hand, have had many (many) years of experience as a dissident, in our anti-war movement, various civil-rights and human-rights struggles. years. as participant and sometimes organizer. i am what you might call a free speech advocate. and i have here, on many occasions, encouraged dissidents to continue to write , not to be intimidated, not to be scared away. dissidents and minorites. stand up for what you know is right! tell the truth of your own experiences.

i am waiting for you to discuss some of the issues i brought up (if you are actually wanting to be a serious contributor) -- the issues around op. storm, for example, the issues around the recent serbian-kosovar negotiations, the mass graves sites (such as raska), the situation of the body-burnings from 1999. there are so many other issues of substance, if you choose to discuss them, rather than focusing on intimidating me (and others) from writing here.

actually, i have been coming (via the internet) to b-92 since 1999, and on a regular basis. which is as long or longer than most anyone here. but it was a VERY different b-92 back then; that's the elephant in the room. at that time, i depended on it for news about political prisoners, such as flora brovina, albin kurt, miroslav filipovic... remember them?

in fact, we just saw and interviewed miroslav and his daughter; they are the most amazing people. he paid bigtime for his truth-telling under milosevic, nearly with his life. kostunica was pressured to let him and others free, and his health gradually improved. eventually he set to work training other young people in journalism, with a special emphasis on young albanians and bosniaks inside serbia. one of them is the young woman i mentioned who has just produced this dynamic new documentary on albanian hisotory. it is excellent, though the english subtitles, as i mentioned, are wanting. and yes, i have agreed to edit them, which is way too much work, but there you are.

if you choose not to believe what i write, then there is really no need to waste our time talking, right? but if you are serious about these matters, then you should really think about what i (and other dissidents) write, rather than just attempt to shut us up. xmas, easter, passover, whatever.

as for our 23 page report, it is already on the internet, but i have no idea if those "nice" people at b-92 will allow it. other times my articles have been silenced (here). we are still hoping that Pescanik will carry it. in the meantime, i will try to forward it here.

it is really a sad statement on the media there (as i have alluded to) that the mainstream belgd post ran away from us, rather than even look at the report. as if they were terrified. my frnd (kos alb) was even a bit upset with me, since after my questions at the press conference his serbian journalist "frnd" disappeared. "suddenly." a sick fever, something like that. i don't entirely blame him -- there is so much pressure there to conform, especially in the media. he has to live there, and make a living, keep frnds, etc. i can return to my "comfy" existence here in bohemian california, where people hardly know what serbia is ("Slovakia"? just asked a well-educated acquaintance.) so i do understand, but still, journalists carry some responsibility...

anyway, i very seldom spend time responding to persons on the other side, especially those who have attacked me, repeatedly. but it is easter, and yes, in the spirit of what we have previously discussed, i am willing to make an exception this time.

tung.

roberto
frisco

american lies again the americans and NATO helped the croats in the war from the air and ground and threatened to bomb serbia if the serbs dont leave krajina and yet the croats cried for help and they had over 250,000 against 60,000 Serbs and yet they needed all this help and for what to take the serbian lands of krajina .that issue is not done because krajina is serbian lands and will get autonomy and eventual independence and now i hear the Italians want istria and Dalmatia back from croatia also because those parts were given to Yugoslavia after ww2 and now there is no yugoslavia so they could take the lands back with ease because the contract is broken and there is no yugoslavia.

Lenard, ivan, mario and other roberto’s,

As you suggest – Serb need to listen and politely sign up for quick transportation to nice place as Jasenovac and let their throats slit or put down heads to be hit with sledge hammers.
And after all that you’re not ashamed to write BS as your previous post and not apologize. That’s shame.
You attacked JNA and Serb population first – but you messed with much stronger opponent not ready to sign up for Jasenovac style places you’re more ready to accept, than Vukovar type response.
Then you cried for help to mamma’s everywhere – NATO, US, papas’ - Germany and Vatican and finally they helped you big time – no-fly zone, arming, logistics – bombing Serbian targets etc – and you did brave fight – killed civilians even they’re leaving as you said as part of your deal – advised to re-locate but not ready to be murdered in process.
Can you just imagine what you nazi- ustache ideology should be able to do – if you were in position to be superior and strong as Serbs were in 1990’s – I got goose bumps just thinking of result – no more Serbs left in Balkans.
But think about that – next time when you starts ball rolling and you masters wont’ be able to help you - maybe Serbian response won’t be as balanced as it was during war in 1990’s.

"I am so sick of having my name used in vain by extremist, nationalist posters, but hey, this is b-92. welcome to the shark tank." (roberto)

-- Then I suggest you either readjust your approach to those on this site, or leave B92 altogether and post somewhere else where people are more biased towards your views. You really need to get off the ego power-trip you have and project in your comments as if people are really interested in what you have to say, or where you've been - particularly after you insult and dismiss an entire nation and its history as the sole responsible agent for all of SE Europe’s misery. You also need to differentiate between the true nationalists on this site (and there are plenty on both sides though you only seem to be affected by the pro-Serbs while happily agreeing with some of the worst offenders on the anti-Serb/pro-Albanian) and those with a more moderate and balanced approach. That you can't interact with even bganon shows you're not really interested in fostering dialogue; but only to push your widely perceived skewed views and to provoke even when it's not necessary. To you, anyone to the right of Natasa Kandic or Sonia Biserko might as well be a Seselj supporter, while followers of some of the most debased Albanian ethnocentrism are simply exhibiting "progressive nationalism" as you one wrote. This is what creates much of the criticism and ridicule towards your posts and your beliefs and it makes it hard, if not comical, to believe you’re anything but another angry misinformed Serbophobe who clings to outdated narratives from the 1990s. You might as well be as abrasive as Lenard or ben. You're not doing anyone any favors with the holier-than-thou approach, especially if you can't even bother to respond to those who really question your views and ask for clarifications or explanations. If you're going to ignore everyone here, and deride the site and its posters as leftover remnants of the Milosevic era while simultaneously turning a blind eye and ear to equally if not more xenophobic and intolerant views from your Albanian "colleagues" then you will continue to be ridiculed every time you post your thoughts.

I say this not to jump on the "anti-roberto" wagon. To be honest, your posts don’t annoy me. I largely ignore you now and don’t think what you write bears anything of substance. But in the spirit of our so-called "Christmas truce" from a few months back, I'd like to extend that to an "Easter truce" and offer some constructive criticism. You can take it as it is and maybe rethink your strategy around here (and I can't remember the last time anyone jumped on pss, Amer, Ment, or other Albanian moderate), or you can ignore this as another example of Serbian nationalism and continue to live loudly in your own world. Either way, no one here knows you outside of what you write, and how you write. No one knows what your job is, and to be fair I think I speak on behalf of a number of people when I say no one cares. I have lots of Serbian friends. They’re good people, all of whom are a far cry from the collective stereotype you put them in. I avoid what you write largely because what you write is both misinformed and insulting to the people I know and are close to. If you get upset that your name and image are frequently targeted here, you've no one other than yourself to blame since you are responsible for what you post.

What a lying scumbag. This is why I am happy to see the US of A sinking into bankruptcy, because of 'diplomats' like this war criminal.
Sure, there was no green light, it's just a coincidence then that there were pre-operation NATO air strikes in Krajina, not to mention training of the Ustashe by US personnel, and supply of arms via Germany and Iran.
People like Galbraith are war criminals of the worst kind, first by committing genocide by helping wipe out an entire people in one weekend, and then by claiming it was legitimate 'defense'.

Galbraith's hypocrisy is amazing, really. Well, in that case we can all agree that the actions in Kosovo and Metohija by the Serbian forces were legitimate too. Why was Serbia bombed then?

Besides, everyone knows that the USA gave green light for the ‘storm’ action, which is not secret to anyone for many years by now.

’’The former U.S. diplomat went on to say that "Gotovina went to Bosnia after Operation Storm, while the crimes took place later".

So what if he went to Bosnia? Isn’t it so that he was supposed to be held responsible for the action itself and everything that happens during the action and afterwards? Isn’t it so that a commander of some military action is held responsible for the troops under his command and that the commander must know or should know what is going on within his troops? Gotovina must have known or should have known that his troops were committing and committed crimes. He must have known or should have known that his troops were breaching the war customs continuously. Even ex Cro. President Mesic himself claimed few days ago that the then political leadership led by Franjo Tudjman knew about the war crimes committed by the Croats, adding that he was personally present when one of the ministers reported to Tudjman that the Serbian villages in Western Slavonia burn in three shifts.
Of course, according to Galbraith this meant nothing, as it was some picnic event. It might be a picnic compared to Jasenovac, though.

Then he shamelessly continued by describing Tudjman as a good strategist. What is in Galbraith’s opinion good strategy? Is it Tudjman’s usthasa policy when it comes to ethnic cleansing and genocide? I can even bet that according to this American hypocrite- Pavelic was very good strategist too. Most probably yes. How else to understand Washington’s and Brussels’ stand when giving a green light to the Croats to commit ethnic cleansing and brutal killings of the Serbs the second time in the 20th Century. I presume that Jasenovac and other concentration camps in Croatia during WWII are well known fact in Washington and Brussels as well as usthasa’s policy of 1/3 when it comes to solving a ''Serbian question'' in Croatia. That policy actually never ceased to exist in minds of Croats. At the beginning of the civil war in ex Yu, precisely in Croatia, the ustasha's policy has been resurrected. I wonder who would have wanted to live in such state of horror and amongst bloodthirsty leadership and citizens. Does Galbraith suggest that the Serbs should have peacefully waited for new genocide to happen? That would have been legitimate too, I suppose. Am I right, Mr Galbraith?!

Washington’s hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.

There is a strong possibility that Belgrade is the country that gave Croatia the green light in Operation Storm. It's called dirty politics and the truth will be revealed eventually.
(Gojko, 25 April 2011 21:12)

You're absolutely right. Without Milosevic' blessing 'Oluja' would have never happened. Milosevic gave up so called 'republika krajina' to get 'republika srpska'. It's a known fact for those who are open minded.

Roberto,

Obviously I hit your nerve – right spot. Truth hurts I know – you answered with long post to fight back – but again you show the most hate we can see on this blog – totally opposite for person you are trying to sell yourself for here.
For instance – all facts – Jasenovac, Marty’s report and end result of this war(s) – Serbs cleaned from Krajina, Sarajevo, Kosovo and you called it all Bla, bla, bla.
And you’re stressing couple thousand people paid price for attacking, Jugoslavia, Serbs and JNA – started war as your idol Mesic claimed – to attack and destroy Jugoslavia – Boljkovac confirmed – and you are trying ignoring it and twisting facts.
You can’t win against truth – Roberto – it will all haunt you at the end – I don’t know how you can sleep selling your BS even In Serbia – what a wonderful country – you can come to Belgrade and sell your paranoia and hate in hearth of Serbia – democracy works a???

I guess the only news-site that is bringing "news" about what this person has said is B92. as if anyone cared what this figure has to say.

Of course there was an American Green Light. Operation Storm was launched the minute The Krajina Serbs signed the Z4 Plan. Galbraith had even given guarantees to Milan Babic that if the Krajina Serbs accepted the Z4 Plan, which they did on August 3, 1995, that the United States would block the Croatian offensive. In stead, what happened was that the Krajina Serbs signed the Z4 Plan, so Croatia walked out of the negotiations and started its military offensive the very next morning, and the United States not only didn't block the Croatian Offensive, the United States PARTICIPATED in it. American war planes bombed RSK missile defense systems during Operation Storm.

For Galbraith and the Hague Tribunal to come along and say there was no green light absolutely strains credulity. And of course the whole purpose of Operation Storm was ETHNIC CLEANSING. That is crystal clear if one reads the transcript of the meeting Tudjman had with his generals before they launched the offensive. Their goal was the expulsion of the civilian population.

You can find the transcript here:
http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/news/smorg042409.html

Lenard never trust the west, does that mean you trust the east? Oh, does that mean you trust your neighbours? Oh, do you trust anybody?

Well maybe if you don't trust anybody you should ask yourself why they don't like you.

In the case of Croatian Serbs they had something called a genocide which gave them every reason not to trust Croats. I thought you of all people would understand that.

But hey, don't let me get in the way of your simplistic viewpoint. Serbs - evil, Croats - mostly good (except when they try to tear Bosnia to pieces) Bosnia good (thats also confusing because Bosnians can't be good because they include Serbs and Croats who want to tear it apart and Bosniak nationalists).

But the reality is - Serbs, Croats, Bosnians same s--t, different packaging. Once you face that fact you might be able to find a little more peace in your life.

Well, that was silly. What little credibility you had here, Roberto, is now officially finished. Mike has always been one of the most reasonable and articulate voices in these forums. Launching that little petty attack has just proven his point. He criticises you on valid grounds and you accuse him of being in cahoots with Serb nationalists.

But please keep coming here as much as you want. Your ridiculous self-righteousness always gives us all a good chuckle. You are now the laughing stock of this place. Besides, I always love to hear from Norberto apologising for your rants.

Tongue!

There is a strong possibility that Belgrade is the country that gave Croatia the green light in Operation Storm. It's called dirty politics and the truth will be revealed eventually.

"roberto" upload this special report you passed around and provide us the link. you were in Serbia? take pictures of your hotel bill/rented apartment bill and put them on tinypic.com, if you can not do something that simple (block out your vital info ie name/creditcard numbers etc)) then no one will believe any of the lies you constantly spew on this site

Mike, beautifully put. I could not agree more.

Roberto, you long ago became a complete parody of yourself. Your lengthy posts are truly tedious and self-referential. Most of us just don't bother anymore as we know that there will be nothing of any substance. You have a completely negative attitude towards Serbia and the Serbs. Nothing that happens can ever be positive. Yes, mistakes have been made. Yes, horrific crimes have been committed. But Serbia is not the only country to have done so. You seem wholly incapable of recognising that the history of the Balkan wars of the 1990s is currently in the process of being rewritten. The uncritical line that 'Serbia was responsible for everything' is finally being challenged. A more balanced and nuanced picture is emerging where no one comes out looking particularly good. Until you can recognise that, you will have no real credibility as an informed voice on the region. Instead, you will just be painted as a Serbophobe and continue to be laughed at for your pompous, self-important posts.

Also, you might want to think of using some proper punctuation. Writing everything in lower case is actually really annoying. It also makes your writing style all the more easy to imitate for those who would have a laugh at your expense.

What a load of doublespeak from Galbraith.

On the one hand according to him the US did not give the green light to Croatia for Storm (even though everybody Serb/ Croat or anybody else) knows this is a lie. On the other he states that Operation Storm is legitimate. What a cowardly and contrary position to take.

Then he says he doesn't know about the evidence that the guilty verdicts were based on - mainly the Brioni transcripts as we all know, and following this he talks of Tudjman's 'vision' of an 'ethnically homogenised Croatia'. Ironically that vision was that which was discussed at Brioni - and Galbraith claims he doesn't know the evidence.

This is a sad joke and actually its the Croatian people that are being made fools of this time.

Germany green lighted it.

One more question for Roberto, and I would really like you to answer it.

"one of their street names was famously changed to the name of the assassin of stjepan radic, murdered, in 1928, in the middle of yugoslavia's parliament (Puniša Račić was the serbian politician-assassin.) that's just one nasty symbol of what the serb-croatian "republic" was about. "

There is a wrong adress - Punisa Racic was not Serbian, he was from Montenegro.
But, he did commit a crime - he assassinated Stjepan Radic.
You are right. Naming a street after him can tell us what was this "republic" (Krajina) all about.

But, this did not happen before one of the major squares in Zagreb was renamed Mile Budak square.
To remind you, Mile Budak was one of the chief ideologists and propagandists in WW2 Croatia and minister in WW2 Ustasha government.
He was best know for a plan he created. He created the Croatian national plan to get rid of Orthodox Serbs by killing one third, expelling one third and assimilating the rest.
And square in Zagreb was named after him in 1990, after Tudjman's election victory.
I really want to hear your interpretation, Roberto.
What can that tell us about this republic (Croatia)?

I got a good chuckle out of Captain Frisco's latest hysterical anti-Serb rant. I find it funny that someone who claims to be a journalist can not even put a proper sentence together or use correct punctuation. Where did you get your journalism degree, in 'Kosova'? lol

Same American team trained the Croats and later the Georgians. Saakashvili was very interested in the practice of the Storm operation and studied it in very details. So if there was no formal US green light it makes no difference. The US has sponsored and encouraged the massacre and let the Ustasha ideology to come out. But anyway I believe that it was not Haague Tribunal but thousands of protesting Serbs with Toma at their head who have influenced the fate of Gotovina. The emergency anti Serb headquarters has already started to work and the artificially boosted scandal over the hunger strike is the best evidence. It’s time to decide what is better for you - a horrible end or endless horror.

RE: Double talk from Peter Gailbrath

Of course the US gave the green light to attack Krajina in concert with Milosevic who was told not to send troops and in fact ordered the Serbian Generals to pull out from Krajina. Did he sell out Krajina? No, he did not, Babich and Martic sold out Krajina and the Croatian Serbs. There were offers on the table for an autonomous region within Croatia, duly not accepted by the Krajina parliament and leadership. Contrary to the mass propoganda against Milosevic, he urged them to take the deal, they did not.


As for the legality of attacking the Krajina frontier, Tudjman cross the UN lines and killed Canadian soldiers and to this day has not been held accountable for the murder of UN civilians.

Mike,

Amen! I truly admire your completely open and honest suggestions to hate mogul "Roberto", but it is very likely that all your well-meant efforts will be completely in vain. Roberto has been beyond saving for a long long time. We have to accept that he and his kind will keep polluting this site and all we can do is learn from our adversaries.

“
NATO's original estimate of 100,000 ethnic Albanians slaughtered, later revised downward to 10,000, turns out to be considerably exaggerated.
Dr. Peter Markesteyn, a Winnipeg forensic pathologist, was among the first war crimes investigators to arrive in Kosovo after NATO ended its bombing campaign.
"We were told there were 100,000 bodies everywhere," said Dr. Markesteyn. "We performed 1,800 autopsies -- that's it."
Fewer than 2,000 corpses. None found in the Trepca mines. No remains in the vats of sulphuric acid. Most found in isolated graves -- not in the mass graves NATO warned about. And no clue as to whether the bodies were those of KLA fighters, civilians, even whether they were Serbs or ethnic Albanians.
No wonder then that of all the incidents on which Slobodan Milosevic has been indicted for war crimes, the total body count is not 100,000, not 10,000, not even 1,800 -- but 391!
…

Moreover, the one pre-bombing incident, the Racak massacre -- which the United States cited as a major reason for the bombing campaign -- is more likely to have been faked by the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), the guerilla army the Serbs were ensnared in a bloody civil war with, than to have represented the cold-blooded killing of ethnic Albanian non-combatants, as the KLA, and Washington's man in Kosovo at the time, William Walker, alleged.
It was Walker, at the time head of the Kosovo Verification Mission (KVM) who, on the morning of January 16, 1999, led the press to the Kosovar village of Racak, a KLA stronghold. There some 20 bodies were found in a shallow trench, and 20 more were found scattered throughout the village. The KLA, and Walker, alleged that masked Serb policemen had entered the village the previous day, and killed men, women and children at close range, after torturing and mutilating them. Chillingly, the Serb police were said to have whistled merrily as they went about their work of slaughtering the villagers.
It was a horrible tableau, sure to whip up the indignation of the world -- and it did.
Clinton's Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, as eager to scratch her ever itchy trigger finger as her boss was to scratch his illimitable sexual itches, demanded that Yugoslavia be bombed immediately. Albright, like a kid agonizingly counting down the hours to Christmas, would have to wait until after Milosevic's rejection of NATO's ultimata at Rambouillet to get her wish.
Bill Clinton, not to be surpassed in expressing indignation, said, "We should remember what happened in the village of Racak...Innocent men, women, and children were taken from their homes to a gully, forced to kneel in the dirt, sprayed with gunfire -- not because of anything they had done, but because of who they were."
But not everyone was so sure that Walker's story was to be believed. The French newspaper La Monde had some trouble swallowing the story. It reported on Jan. 21, 1999, a few days after the incident, that an Associated Press TV crew had filmed a gun battle at Racak between Serb police and KLA guerillas. Indeed, the crew was present because the Serbs had tipped them off that they were going to enter the village to arrest a man accused of shooting a police officer. Also present were two teams of KVM monitors.
It seems unlikely that if you're about to carry out a massacre that you would invite the press -- and international observers -- to watch.
The film showed that as soon as the Serbs entered Racak they came under heavy fire from KLA guerillas positioned in the surrounding hills. The idea that the police could dig a trench and then kill villagers at close range while under attack troubled La Monde. So too did the fact that, entering the village after the fire fight to assess the damage and interview the villagers, the KVM observers saw no sign of a massacre. What's more, the villagers said nothing about a massacre either.
Yet, when Walker returned the next day with the press -- at the KLA's invitation -- there was the trench with the bodies.
Could the police have returned later on and carried out the massacre under cover of darkness?
That seems unlikely. Racak is a KLA stronghold. Serb police had already discovered that if they were going to enter the village they would have to deal with the guerillas. How could they torture, mutilate and cold-bloodedly kill villagers at close range while harassed by KLA gunfire?
And why, wondered La Monde, were there few signs of spent cartridges and blood at the trench?
And now there's a report that the Finnish forensic pathologists who investigated the incident on behalf of the European Union, say there was no evidence of a massacre. In an article to be published in Forensic Science International at the end of February, the Finnish team writes that none of the bodies were mutilated, there was no evidence of torture, and only one was shot at close range.
Thirty-seven of the corpses had gunpowder residue on their hands, suggesting that they had been using firearms, and only one of the corpses was a woman, and only one was under 15 years of age. Not the picture Clinton painted of innocent men, women and children, dragged from their homes, and sprayed with gunfire.
…
And the first question patriots should ask themselves is why our leaders lied about Kosovo -- and why they continue to lie about it today?
Mr. Steve Gowans is a writer and political activist who lives in Ottawa, Canada.
Source:
“
So let us stop talking about Rasak as an example of anything other than a lie.
Afterall, we must take the opinion of a Canadian -- the world's peace keepers -- at face value, or what have we left?

Who sold them the arms ?
All former presidents from all ex republics were crazy nationalists.
Those who really should be punished are all dead now !

What do u mean by: "U.S. did not green-light Operation Storm", just because some american ambassador says so? U better send your journalists to do some decent work. This ain't journalisnm, it's cheap propaganda!

Lenard.
I opened your link and it doesn't say anything about "the loyal Croatian Serbs 300,000 of Croatia stayed and defended their homes with their neighbours from Grater Belgrade Serbia ethnic cleansing murder pogroms"

Where did you get that?

At the moment of UN arrival, there was 110,000 refugees registered by UNHCR on the territory controlled by Croatia. Those were mostly refugees cleansed from Knin, Vukovar, etc.
There was also 170,000 refugees from Croatia, mosty Serbs, running away from Croatian controlled territory.
This is official data.

Link that you have provided is very pro-Croatian biased, I would say, but it claims no such thing that you quoted.
Here is part of the article.

"The historical record suggests that Operation Storm was undertaken with callous disregard for the welfare of civilians in the area, virtually all of whom by that time were Serbs. For that the convicted defendants were undoubtedly morally responsible. Before the Yugoslavian wars began, Krajina was ethnically mixed; some 80,000 Croats were expelled from the region between August and December 1991. When the shells began raining indiscriminately down in people’s gardens on 4 August 1995, the Balkan cycle of revenge was complete. "

Writer admits that "Operation Storm was undertaken with callous disregard for the welfare of civilians". It's the mild language, but let's go with it.
Then he goes to say "When the shells began raining indiscriminately down in people’s gardens on 4 August 1995, the Balkan cycle of revenge was complete. "

Something that Roberto suggest too.

"...there was certinly ethnic cleansing in "storm" the question also arises: what evils did it stop or react to?"

Krajina was cleansed of Croats, and this was only a reaction. Just like in article "...the Balkan cycle of revenge was complete. "

Here one would have to wonder what was action and what was reaction?

First homes not only in Croatia, but in all of former Yugoslavia were hundereds of Serb homes burned on May 2nd 1991 in Sibenik and Zadar (Croatian controlled territory). First massive expulsion of population based on ethnicity was in Slavonski Brod where all the Serbs were given 48 hours to leave. This was Croatian controlled territorry, Serbs were minority, they never claimed to be part of Krajina or anything like that. Croatian military moved afterward, and burned all the villages.
etc. etc.

Lenard, if you really want to know what was the fate of Serbs in Croatia, including most of the loyal ones, here is a nice link for Amnesty International Report.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR64/005/2004/en/df4d5196-d54c-11dd-8a23-d58a49c0d652/eur640052004en.html

They choose Sisak as "illustrative example" of what was going on all over Croatia.

"Crimes committed in Sisak, relatively little known outside of Croatia, were chosen as illustrative examples of a widespread pattern of violations committed against the civilian population allegedly by members of the Croatian Army and police forces. "

It starts "Between 1991 and 1992 Croatian Serbs in Sisak and in the surrounding area became victims of a campaign of killings, abductions, "disappearances", assaults and threats. I"

They stressed that all cases are well documented.

"On the evening of 22 August 1991 Croatian Serb Miljenko Ðapa, a worker at the Sisak oil refinery, was arrested by armed men in his home."

Later found dead 20 km away from Sisak.

Here is a nice example of a Serb loyal to Croatia (he even signed loyalty oath )

"On 13 September 1991 the family home of Croatian Serb Damjan Žiliæ in the small town of Petrinja was bombarded with machine guns and hand grenades, allegedly by members of the Croatian Army. Damjan Žiliæ, aged 52, a chemical engineer and chief of production at the INA oil refinery in Sisak, was not injured, but the house was considerably damaged."

Why?

"Although he was not a member of any political party, and had signed an oath of loyalty to the Republic of Croatia, he was aware of hostility at his place of work, apparently based on his nationality (the security guards had on a number of occasions refused him entry to the premises). "

Not member of political party, signed an oath...but didn't feel to safe in Sisak.

"After the attack on their home, he and his wife (an ethnic Croat) moved to Zagreb. "

His wife was ethnic Croat, this man can hardly be called Serbian nationalist, you will agree.
So, what happen to him in Zagreb?

"On 23 November 1991 he was abducted from outside his home in Novi Zagreb. Reportedly, he was killed by blows to the head and his body was thrown in the Sava River."

It's not some Serbian propaganda, but Amnesty International.

But, the link you have provided, Lenard, has something related to Gailbrath's statement.

"Less well known about Operation Storm is that the US Government approved it, planned it, trained Croat forces in preparation for it and provided intelligence, air support and jamming of Serb telecommunications. The course of events was streamed live to the Pentagon."