MEP Pinno Arlacchi has said that Kosovo is the international community's biggest mistake in the past 12 years, adding that EULEX mission is a complete failure.
I would like to point out that now the West can not any more escape reality, facts can not be ignored any longer. EU in my opinion should start to distance itself from U.S. cowboy policy. Now many Europeans realize they were hoodwinked into recognizing Kosovo’s independence on the pretence it would resolve problems and bring peace – it didn’t happen; a new approach is needed. The Dick Marty's report and now public supporting material from western intelligence could be start for reassessment of Kosovo status and operations/presence of international community there.
(More about case in article “Captured Pseudo-State Kosovo” in http://arirusila.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/captured-pseudo-state-kosovo/ )
Its refreshingly good feeling to hear MEP Mr.Pinno Arcachi speaks truth
about Kosovo.The idea of creating EU is a good one.However,It should take in all of the legitimate States of continent of Europe, meeting the required
minimum standard.If properly structured, could work to benefit both poor and rich States of the union.Economic system should be entrepreneurial
competitive market free.Emphasis should be on education,innovation and
dedication to work details.No underground (illegal)economy should be tolerated.Safety net should be provided for those who are struggling.
As for defense we should provide minimum required.EU should never be engaged in using force for Nation building or colonization. If this experiment is successful it could be a blue print for the conflict free Planet Earth.World religions are needed to keep cohesion.
pss,
so you're hung up on serbia's numbers from the 19th century, yet somehow you're okay with albania's numbers from the 21st century -- you know the 1 million+ ethnically cleansed?...
just wondering where you draw the line on credibility and logical numerology ;)
(bob, 29 March 2011 01:40)
# Comment link
Well I did see the news footage of Albanians leaving and being transported out of Kosovo during 1999. I also spoke to many many Albanian families who fled Kosovo during the war to return to ashes where their houses and farms once stood. As to exact numbers I have seen many quoted but I do know it was substantial.
As far as the Serb cleansing in Kosovo I think pre war a lot is similar to urban areas of the US in the 60's where with the increase of black families, whites no longer wanted to live among them and moved to the suburbs, Was this a racial cleansing or the result of a bigoted population??
As far as the post war cleansing, most Serbs fled because they were afraid without Serbian police protection they would be subjected to retalitory attacks, or the possibility of arrests for war crimes or illegal usurpation of property. Is this ethnic cleansing or fear of being accountable?
The violence against the Albanians was documented by the UNSC, the cleansing of Serbs is inferred by Serbs. I find it ironic that Serbia sites Res 1244 to highlight the requirement to aid the return of displaced persons but actually most of the Serbian population left Kosovo after 1244 was enacted.
pss,
so you're hung up on serbia's numbers from the 19th century, yet somehow you're okay with albania's numbers from the 21st century -- you know the 1 million+ ethnically cleansed?...
just wondering where you draw the line on credibility and logical numerology ;)
@pss; It was clear to me you didn't accuse me of manipulating. I was just thinking loudly in order to find a logical explanation for those figures. Nonetheless I think saying that 'Kosovo was almost 100% Albanian' is only half the story, because it seems the Serbs were driven out for some reason. Even if the figures are not 100% correct, it remains clear that a lot of Serbs 'vanished' from the area. After WWI, Kosovo was integrated in Yugoslavia and as a result the number of Serbs slowly increased again (until the late 60's or so). That explains, I think, a higher number of Serbs in the 90's, compared to the situation before WWI.
My 'anger' was still more directed to (people like) 'KOSO', because he only cited the part he liked. Sorry about that.
I would rather say :I advice italian politicians concentrate more on italia...Kosovo issue is almost solved, and whatever happens in Kosovo can affect Italian interests,indeed!
here we have again italia that in the beginning of the nineties were buying serbian industries and were a good friend of Milosheviq!
As for eulex,we all do know ,as Mr Marty would say,we all do konow why that do not go deeper:they would have then to tacle european maffiasponsored,when not organized by UE officials:some exemple:kek,the privatisation organism in kosovo etc all these organism being established and directed by "europeans"!
But indeed,i would agree with you that we albanians did made a mistake then,because if we were to stay in serbia in less than half century Serbia would have come back to its ancient and real boudaries of stara serbia!!
“We created a mafia state and we care only about not letting the truth come out,” the Italian MEP added.
I don't get what's so wrong about being a "mafia state". Italy has been a "mafia state" since its inception and no one seems to have a problem with it, well of course except for Lega Nord that wants an independent Padania from the South.
As I said; I don't know much about these figures, but it seems you can only state that 'Kosovo was almost 100% Albanian' before WWI only because the Serbs disappeared for some reason. Not much earlier their amount was significantly higher. Concerning the difference of 72.000; maybe the borders had changed somewhat and both measurings were taken in a slightly different political or administrative entity. The population might have grown as well; 72.000 between 1871 and 1911 doesn't sound impossible to me.
(JS, 28 March 2011 15:31)
My comment was not to dispute anything you said just pointing out when we keep talking about Serbs being cleansed from Kosovo, the numbers do not match the claims. Even if what you say is true then post 1911 there were no Serbs left, How were they again cleansed in 1999?
My implication was not that you manipulated the numbers, but in most probability either the 318,000 or the 400,000 numbers are not accurate maybe both.
Lets see in 1871 there were 318,000 Serbs in Kosovo, between 1876 and 1911 400,000 Serbs were cleansed from Kosovo??? Since 72,000 more Serbs were "cleansed" than were actually there originally. Kosovo has been almost 100% Albanian since before WWI, right? Or maybe there is a manipulation of numbers!
(pss, 28 March 2011 14:03)
As I said; I don't know much about these figures, but it seems you can only state that 'Kosovo was almost 100% Albanian' before WWI only because the Serbs disappeared for some reason. Not much earlier their amount was significantly higher. Concerning the difference of 72.000; maybe the borders had changed somewhat and both measurings were taken in a slightly different political or administrative entity. The population might have grown as well; 72.000 between 1871 and 1911 doesn't sound impossible to me.
@KOSO; you seem to have 'overlooked' the figures about the 19th century, when the amount of Serbs was much larger than when measured in 1906.
From the same source:
"A study done in 1871 by Austrian colonel Peter Kukulj for the internal use of the Austro-Hungarian army showed that the mutesarifluk of Prizren (corresponding largely to present-day Kosovo) had some 500,000 inhabitants, of which:
* 318,000 Serbs (64%),
* 161,000 Albanians (32%),
* 10,000 Roma (Gypsies) and Circassians
* 2,000 Turks
Ethnic distribution of Albanians, The Historical Atlas, New York, 1911.
Modern Serbian sources estimated that around 400,000 Serbs were cleansed out of the Vilayet of Kosovo between 1876 and 1912, especially during the Greek-Ottoman War in 1897."
I don't know nothing about the cleansing of Serbs that is mentioned here, but according to the figures, they disappeared somehow. Next time pls have a closer look instead of just citing figures that suit your opinion nicely.
(JS, 28 March 2011 12:17)
Lets see in 1871 there were 318,000 Serbs in Kosovo, between 1876 and 1911 400,000 Serbs were cleansed from Kosovo??? Since 72,000 more Serbs were "cleansed" than were actually there originally. Kosovo has been almost 100% Albanian since before WWI, right? Or maybe there is a manipulation of numbers!
I have always said that time works for Serbia. this is only one person, there will be more of them, it´s only a question of time.
as for the desperate comments of our dear k-albanian friends: you don´t have to fear Serbia, since all will be fine, once KiM is reintegrated again. you will see prosperity and peace come back, once the criminal elements amongst you have left KiM, with international money they have stolen from you, of course.
but unfortunately, it is still too early for you to realize that. that will need more time.
but one thing is certain: Serbia will prevail, and even Mr.Tadic cannot prevent that with his partition-phantasies about "reality on the field".
@KOSO; you seem to have 'overlooked' the figures about the 19th century, when the amount of Serbs was much larger than when measured in 1906.
From the same source:
"A study done in 1871 by Austrian colonel Peter Kukulj for the internal use of the Austro-Hungarian army showed that the mutesarifluk of Prizren (corresponding largely to present-day Kosovo) had some 500,000 inhabitants, of which:
* 318,000 Serbs (64%),
* 161,000 Albanians (32%),
* 10,000 Roma (Gypsies) and Circassians
* 2,000 Turks
Ethnic distribution of Albanians, The Historical Atlas, New York, 1911.
Modern Serbian sources estimated that around 400,000 Serbs were cleansed out of the Vilayet of Kosovo between 1876 and 1912, especially during the Greek-Ottoman War in 1897."
I don't know nothing about the cleansing of Serbs that is mentioned here, but according to the figures, they disappeared somehow. Next time pls have a closer look instead of just citing figures that suit your opinion nicely.
I believe that Italian polititian has more important other things to do in his own yard/country concerning corrupt rule of Berlusconi then to play a dirty role in a ill-fated campaign of serbian nationalists.
Thanks to that person who posted the link...here is the fact.
British journalist H. Brailsford estimated in 1906[32] that two-thirds of the population of Kosovo was Albanian and one-third Serbian. The most populous western districts of Đakovica and Peć were said to have between 20,000 and 25,000 Albanian households, as against some 5,000 Serbian ones. A map of Alfred Stead,[33] published in 1909 , shows that similar numbers of Serbs and Albanians were living in the territory.
This is no worth news whatsoever... you have found one ridicule from extreme right to cite suggesting other readers that he will change my/our opinion on that terrible crime that Serb army committed in Kosovo? Please do not be silly I have been expecting more from B92!
A lot of truth in it. But you cannot blame the EU/EULEX. It's impossible to establish some democratic and legal structures in a country build of crime, corruption and a clan-based society, and against the people living there. As everyone could see in the last elections, Kosovo Albanians prefer to be ruled by corrupt people and alleged criminals.
I advice italian politicians concentrate more on Libya...Kosovo issue is almost solved, and whatever happens in Kosovo can not affect Italian interests.
There you have it. Pull your head out of the sand to read this one K-Albs. The cover-up will be UNCOVERED!
(Milan T, 27 March 2011 17:11)
One down, now another 35,000 politicians thinking your way and you can claim you have convinced NATO they made a mistake.
I wonder how many in here are going to claim he is speaking for all of Europe and the tide has changed and recognitions will start being reversed tomorrow. I can think of 5 who will try to sell it here.
Oh look this, thousands of members of parliaments in dozens of countries and Tanjug finds the one which pleases their right-wing campaign. You clearly uphold the Milosevic legacy of being the bottom of the barrel and the very proof why Serbia will never ever get the chance the Kosovo into his clutches.
The truth is slowly surfacing. What did the bombing acheave?Burned churches and monisteries, displaced Serbian and Gypsy families.And lets not forged ethnicly clensed vilages now dominated by Tachi's mafia and cronies.All in the name of so called protection of poor inocent albanian population. Might I ask what was the albanian population in kosovo after the WW2 before Tito invited all the albanians.
“We created a mafia state and we care only about not letting the truth come out,” the Italian MEP added.
--
Wow, someone finally speaking the truth! The US/EU are only concerned about being perceived as right, thus not doing what is right and hiding the truth.
They say with age ppl become senile, he seem to have passed that phase long time ago. For someone who has never been in Kosovo this makes it even more ironical, but non he less his words are only taken serious by Serbian and Russian media, wonder why?
The truth is slowly surfacing. What did the bombing acheave?Burned churches and monisteries, displaced Serbian and Gypsy families.And lets not forged ethnicly clensed vilages now dominated by Tachi's mafia and cronies.All in the name of so called protection of poor inocent albanian population. Might I ask what was the albanian population in kosovo after the WW2 before Tito invited all the albanians.
“We created a mafia state and we care only about not letting the truth come out,” the Italian MEP added.
--
Wow, someone finally speaking the truth! The US/EU are only concerned about being perceived as right, thus not doing what is right and hiding the truth.
Oh look this, thousands of members of parliaments in dozens of countries and Tanjug finds the one which pleases their right-wing campaign. You clearly uphold the Milosevic legacy of being the bottom of the barrel and the very proof why Serbia will never ever get the chance the Kosovo into his clutches.
I have always said that time works for Serbia. this is only one person, there will be more of them, it´s only a question of time.
as for the desperate comments of our dear k-albanian friends: you don´t have to fear Serbia, since all will be fine, once KiM is reintegrated again. you will see prosperity and peace come back, once the criminal elements amongst you have left KiM, with international money they have stolen from you, of course.
but unfortunately, it is still too early for you to realize that. that will need more time.
but one thing is certain: Serbia will prevail, and even Mr.Tadic cannot prevent that with his partition-phantasies about "reality on the field".
A lot of truth in it. But you cannot blame the EU/EULEX. It's impossible to establish some democratic and legal structures in a country build of crime, corruption and a clan-based society, and against the people living there. As everyone could see in the last elections, Kosovo Albanians prefer to be ruled by corrupt people and alleged criminals.
They say with age ppl become senile, he seem to have passed that phase long time ago. For someone who has never been in Kosovo this makes it even more ironical, but non he less his words are only taken serious by Serbian and Russian media, wonder why?
@KOSO; you seem to have 'overlooked' the figures about the 19th century, when the amount of Serbs was much larger than when measured in 1906.
From the same source:
"A study done in 1871 by Austrian colonel Peter Kukulj for the internal use of the Austro-Hungarian army showed that the mutesarifluk of Prizren (corresponding largely to present-day Kosovo) had some 500,000 inhabitants, of which:
* 318,000 Serbs (64%),
* 161,000 Albanians (32%),
* 10,000 Roma (Gypsies) and Circassians
* 2,000 Turks
Ethnic distribution of Albanians, The Historical Atlas, New York, 1911.
Modern Serbian sources estimated that around 400,000 Serbs were cleansed out of the Vilayet of Kosovo between 1876 and 1912, especially during the Greek-Ottoman War in 1897."
I don't know nothing about the cleansing of Serbs that is mentioned here, but according to the figures, they disappeared somehow. Next time pls have a closer look instead of just citing figures that suit your opinion nicely.
pss,
so you're hung up on serbia's numbers from the 19th century, yet somehow you're okay with albania's numbers from the 21st century -- you know the 1 million+ ethnically cleansed?...
just wondering where you draw the line on credibility and logical numerology ;)
There you have it. Pull your head out of the sand to read this one K-Albs. The cover-up will be UNCOVERED!
(Milan T, 27 March 2011 17:11)
One down, now another 35,000 politicians thinking your way and you can claim you have convinced NATO they made a mistake.
I wonder how many in here are going to claim he is speaking for all of Europe and the tide has changed and recognitions will start being reversed tomorrow. I can think of 5 who will try to sell it here.
I believe that Italian polititian has more important other things to do in his own yard/country concerning corrupt rule of Berlusconi then to play a dirty role in a ill-fated campaign of serbian nationalists.
I would like to point out that now the West can not any more escape reality, facts can not be ignored any longer. EU in my opinion should start to distance itself from U.S. cowboy policy. Now many Europeans realize they were hoodwinked into recognizing Kosovo’s independence on the pretence it would resolve problems and bring peace – it didn’t happen; a new approach is needed. The Dick Marty's report and now public supporting material from western intelligence could be start for reassessment of Kosovo status and operations/presence of international community there.
(More about case in article “Captured Pseudo-State Kosovo” in http://arirusila.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/captured-pseudo-state-kosovo/ )
Lets see in 1871 there were 318,000 Serbs in Kosovo, between 1876 and 1911 400,000 Serbs were cleansed from Kosovo??? Since 72,000 more Serbs were "cleansed" than were actually there originally. Kosovo has been almost 100% Albanian since before WWI, right? Or maybe there is a manipulation of numbers!
(pss, 28 March 2011 14:03)
As I said; I don't know much about these figures, but it seems you can only state that 'Kosovo was almost 100% Albanian' before WWI only because the Serbs disappeared for some reason. Not much earlier their amount was significantly higher. Concerning the difference of 72.000; maybe the borders had changed somewhat and both measurings were taken in a slightly different political or administrative entity. The population might have grown as well; 72.000 between 1871 and 1911 doesn't sound impossible to me.
@KOSO; you seem to have 'overlooked' the figures about the 19th century, when the amount of Serbs was much larger than when measured in 1906.
From the same source:
"A study done in 1871 by Austrian colonel Peter Kukulj for the internal use of the Austro-Hungarian army showed that the mutesarifluk of Prizren (corresponding largely to present-day Kosovo) had some 500,000 inhabitants, of which:
* 318,000 Serbs (64%),
* 161,000 Albanians (32%),
* 10,000 Roma (Gypsies) and Circassians
* 2,000 Turks
Ethnic distribution of Albanians, The Historical Atlas, New York, 1911.
Modern Serbian sources estimated that around 400,000 Serbs were cleansed out of the Vilayet of Kosovo between 1876 and 1912, especially during the Greek-Ottoman War in 1897."
I don't know nothing about the cleansing of Serbs that is mentioned here, but according to the figures, they disappeared somehow. Next time pls have a closer look instead of just citing figures that suit your opinion nicely.
(JS, 28 March 2011 12:17)
Lets see in 1871 there were 318,000 Serbs in Kosovo, between 1876 and 1911 400,000 Serbs were cleansed from Kosovo??? Since 72,000 more Serbs were "cleansed" than were actually there originally. Kosovo has been almost 100% Albanian since before WWI, right? Or maybe there is a manipulation of numbers!
Its refreshingly good feeling to hear MEP Mr.Pinno Arcachi speaks truth
about Kosovo.The idea of creating EU is a good one.However,It should take in all of the legitimate States of continent of Europe, meeting the required
minimum standard.If properly structured, could work to benefit both poor and rich States of the union.Economic system should be entrepreneurial
competitive market free.Emphasis should be on education,innovation and
dedication to work details.No underground (illegal)economy should be tolerated.Safety net should be provided for those who are struggling.
As for defense we should provide minimum required.EU should never be engaged in using force for Nation building or colonization. If this experiment is successful it could be a blue print for the conflict free Planet Earth.World religions are needed to keep cohesion.
This is no worth news whatsoever... you have found one ridicule from extreme right to cite suggesting other readers that he will change my/our opinion on that terrible crime that Serb army committed in Kosovo? Please do not be silly I have been expecting more from B92!
Thanks to that person who posted the link...here is the fact.
British journalist H. Brailsford estimated in 1906[32] that two-thirds of the population of Kosovo was Albanian and one-third Serbian. The most populous western districts of Đakovica and Peć were said to have between 20,000 and 25,000 Albanian households, as against some 5,000 Serbian ones. A map of Alfred Stead,[33] published in 1909 , shows that similar numbers of Serbs and Albanians were living in the territory.
As I said; I don't know much about these figures, but it seems you can only state that 'Kosovo was almost 100% Albanian' before WWI only because the Serbs disappeared for some reason. Not much earlier their amount was significantly higher. Concerning the difference of 72.000; maybe the borders had changed somewhat and both measurings were taken in a slightly different political or administrative entity. The population might have grown as well; 72.000 between 1871 and 1911 doesn't sound impossible to me.
(JS, 28 March 2011 15:31)
My comment was not to dispute anything you said just pointing out when we keep talking about Serbs being cleansed from Kosovo, the numbers do not match the claims. Even if what you say is true then post 1911 there were no Serbs left, How were they again cleansed in 1999?
My implication was not that you manipulated the numbers, but in most probability either the 318,000 or the 400,000 numbers are not accurate maybe both.
“We created a mafia state and we care only about not letting the truth come out,” the Italian MEP added.
I don't get what's so wrong about being a "mafia state". Italy has been a "mafia state" since its inception and no one seems to have a problem with it, well of course except for Lega Nord that wants an independent Padania from the South.
I advice italian politicians concentrate more on Libya...Kosovo issue is almost solved, and whatever happens in Kosovo can not affect Italian interests.
@pss; It was clear to me you didn't accuse me of manipulating. I was just thinking loudly in order to find a logical explanation for those figures. Nonetheless I think saying that 'Kosovo was almost 100% Albanian' is only half the story, because it seems the Serbs were driven out for some reason. Even if the figures are not 100% correct, it remains clear that a lot of Serbs 'vanished' from the area. After WWI, Kosovo was integrated in Yugoslavia and as a result the number of Serbs slowly increased again (until the late 60's or so). That explains, I think, a higher number of Serbs in the 90's, compared to the situation before WWI.
My 'anger' was still more directed to (people like) 'KOSO', because he only cited the part he liked. Sorry about that.
I would rather say :I advice italian politicians concentrate more on italia...Kosovo issue is almost solved, and whatever happens in Kosovo can affect Italian interests,indeed!
here we have again italia that in the beginning of the nineties were buying serbian industries and were a good friend of Milosheviq!
As for eulex,we all do know ,as Mr Marty would say,we all do konow why that do not go deeper:they would have then to tacle european maffiasponsored,when not organized by UE officials:some exemple:kek,the privatisation organism in kosovo etc all these organism being established and directed by "europeans"!
But indeed,i would agree with you that we albanians did made a mistake then,because if we were to stay in serbia in less than half century Serbia would have come back to its ancient and real boudaries of stara serbia!!
pss,
so you're hung up on serbia's numbers from the 19th century, yet somehow you're okay with albania's numbers from the 21st century -- you know the 1 million+ ethnically cleansed?...
just wondering where you draw the line on credibility and logical numerology ;)
(bob, 29 March 2011 01:40)
# Comment link
Well I did see the news footage of Albanians leaving and being transported out of Kosovo during 1999. I also spoke to many many Albanian families who fled Kosovo during the war to return to ashes where their houses and farms once stood. As to exact numbers I have seen many quoted but I do know it was substantial.
As far as the Serb cleansing in Kosovo I think pre war a lot is similar to urban areas of the US in the 60's where with the increase of black families, whites no longer wanted to live among them and moved to the suburbs, Was this a racial cleansing or the result of a bigoted population??
As far as the post war cleansing, most Serbs fled because they were afraid without Serbian police protection they would be subjected to retalitory attacks, or the possibility of arrests for war crimes or illegal usurpation of property. Is this ethnic cleansing or fear of being accountable?
The violence against the Albanians was documented by the UNSC, the cleansing of Serbs is inferred by Serbs. I find it ironic that Serbia sites Res 1244 to highlight the requirement to aid the return of displaced persons but actually most of the Serbian population left Kosovo after 1244 was enacted.
Oh look this, thousands of members of parliaments in dozens of countries and Tanjug finds the one which pleases their right-wing campaign. You clearly uphold the Milosevic legacy of being the bottom of the barrel and the very proof why Serbia will never ever get the chance the Kosovo into his clutches.
They say with age ppl become senile, he seem to have passed that phase long time ago. For someone who has never been in Kosovo this makes it even more ironical, but non he less his words are only taken serious by Serbian and Russian media, wonder why?
There you have it. Pull your head out of the sand to read this one K-Albs. The cover-up will be UNCOVERED!
(Milan T, 27 March 2011 17:11)
One down, now another 35,000 politicians thinking your way and you can claim you have convinced NATO they made a mistake.
I wonder how many in here are going to claim he is speaking for all of Europe and the tide has changed and recognitions will start being reversed tomorrow. I can think of 5 who will try to sell it here.
I advice italian politicians concentrate more on Libya...Kosovo issue is almost solved, and whatever happens in Kosovo can not affect Italian interests.
The truth is slowly surfacing. What did the bombing acheave?Burned churches and monisteries, displaced Serbian and Gypsy families.And lets not forged ethnicly clensed vilages now dominated by Tachi's mafia and cronies.All in the name of so called protection of poor inocent albanian population. Might I ask what was the albanian population in kosovo after the WW2 before Tito invited all the albanians.
Thanks to that person who posted the link...here is the fact.
British journalist H. Brailsford estimated in 1906[32] that two-thirds of the population of Kosovo was Albanian and one-third Serbian. The most populous western districts of Đakovica and Peć were said to have between 20,000 and 25,000 Albanian households, as against some 5,000 Serbian ones. A map of Alfred Stead,[33] published in 1909 , shows that similar numbers of Serbs and Albanians were living in the territory.
This is no worth news whatsoever... you have found one ridicule from extreme right to cite suggesting other readers that he will change my/our opinion on that terrible crime that Serb army committed in Kosovo? Please do not be silly I have been expecting more from B92!
I believe that Italian polititian has more important other things to do in his own yard/country concerning corrupt rule of Berlusconi then to play a dirty role in a ill-fated campaign of serbian nationalists.
“We created a mafia state and we care only about not letting the truth come out,” the Italian MEP added.
--
Wow, someone finally speaking the truth! The US/EU are only concerned about being perceived as right, thus not doing what is right and hiding the truth.
@KOSO; you seem to have 'overlooked' the figures about the 19th century, when the amount of Serbs was much larger than when measured in 1906.
From the same source:
"A study done in 1871 by Austrian colonel Peter Kukulj for the internal use of the Austro-Hungarian army showed that the mutesarifluk of Prizren (corresponding largely to present-day Kosovo) had some 500,000 inhabitants, of which:
* 318,000 Serbs (64%),
* 161,000 Albanians (32%),
* 10,000 Roma (Gypsies) and Circassians
* 2,000 Turks
Ethnic distribution of Albanians, The Historical Atlas, New York, 1911.
Modern Serbian sources estimated that around 400,000 Serbs were cleansed out of the Vilayet of Kosovo between 1876 and 1912, especially during the Greek-Ottoman War in 1897."
I don't know nothing about the cleansing of Serbs that is mentioned here, but according to the figures, they disappeared somehow. Next time pls have a closer look instead of just citing figures that suit your opinion nicely.
(JS, 28 March 2011 12:17)
Lets see in 1871 there were 318,000 Serbs in Kosovo, between 1876 and 1911 400,000 Serbs were cleansed from Kosovo??? Since 72,000 more Serbs were "cleansed" than were actually there originally. Kosovo has been almost 100% Albanian since before WWI, right? Or maybe there is a manipulation of numbers!
I would rather say :I advice italian politicians concentrate more on italia...Kosovo issue is almost solved, and whatever happens in Kosovo can affect Italian interests,indeed!
here we have again italia that in the beginning of the nineties were buying serbian industries and were a good friend of Milosheviq!
As for eulex,we all do know ,as Mr Marty would say,we all do konow why that do not go deeper:they would have then to tacle european maffiasponsored,when not organized by UE officials:some exemple:kek,the privatisation organism in kosovo etc all these organism being established and directed by "europeans"!
But indeed,i would agree with you that we albanians did made a mistake then,because if we were to stay in serbia in less than half century Serbia would have come back to its ancient and real boudaries of stara serbia!!
pss,
so you're hung up on serbia's numbers from the 19th century, yet somehow you're okay with albania's numbers from the 21st century -- you know the 1 million+ ethnically cleansed?...
just wondering where you draw the line on credibility and logical numerology ;)
(bob, 29 March 2011 01:40)
# Comment link
Well I did see the news footage of Albanians leaving and being transported out of Kosovo during 1999. I also spoke to many many Albanian families who fled Kosovo during the war to return to ashes where their houses and farms once stood. As to exact numbers I have seen many quoted but I do know it was substantial.
As far as the Serb cleansing in Kosovo I think pre war a lot is similar to urban areas of the US in the 60's where with the increase of black families, whites no longer wanted to live among them and moved to the suburbs, Was this a racial cleansing or the result of a bigoted population??
As far as the post war cleansing, most Serbs fled because they were afraid without Serbian police protection they would be subjected to retalitory attacks, or the possibility of arrests for war crimes or illegal usurpation of property. Is this ethnic cleansing or fear of being accountable?
The violence against the Albanians was documented by the UNSC, the cleansing of Serbs is inferred by Serbs. I find it ironic that Serbia sites Res 1244 to highlight the requirement to aid the return of displaced persons but actually most of the Serbian population left Kosovo after 1244 was enacted.
“We created a mafia state and we care only about not letting the truth come out,” the Italian MEP added.
I don't get what's so wrong about being a "mafia state". Italy has been a "mafia state" since its inception and no one seems to have a problem with it, well of course except for Lega Nord that wants an independent Padania from the South.
@KOSO; you seem to have 'overlooked' the figures about the 19th century, when the amount of Serbs was much larger than when measured in 1906.
From the same source:
"A study done in 1871 by Austrian colonel Peter Kukulj for the internal use of the Austro-Hungarian army showed that the mutesarifluk of Prizren (corresponding largely to present-day Kosovo) had some 500,000 inhabitants, of which:
* 318,000 Serbs (64%),
* 161,000 Albanians (32%),
* 10,000 Roma (Gypsies) and Circassians
* 2,000 Turks
Ethnic distribution of Albanians, The Historical Atlas, New York, 1911.
Modern Serbian sources estimated that around 400,000 Serbs were cleansed out of the Vilayet of Kosovo between 1876 and 1912, especially during the Greek-Ottoman War in 1897."
I don't know nothing about the cleansing of Serbs that is mentioned here, but according to the figures, they disappeared somehow. Next time pls have a closer look instead of just citing figures that suit your opinion nicely.
Lets see in 1871 there were 318,000 Serbs in Kosovo, between 1876 and 1911 400,000 Serbs were cleansed from Kosovo??? Since 72,000 more Serbs were "cleansed" than were actually there originally. Kosovo has been almost 100% Albanian since before WWI, right? Or maybe there is a manipulation of numbers!
(pss, 28 March 2011 14:03)
As I said; I don't know much about these figures, but it seems you can only state that 'Kosovo was almost 100% Albanian' before WWI only because the Serbs disappeared for some reason. Not much earlier their amount was significantly higher. Concerning the difference of 72.000; maybe the borders had changed somewhat and both measurings were taken in a slightly different political or administrative entity. The population might have grown as well; 72.000 between 1871 and 1911 doesn't sound impossible to me.
I have always said that time works for Serbia. this is only one person, there will be more of them, it´s only a question of time.
as for the desperate comments of our dear k-albanian friends: you don´t have to fear Serbia, since all will be fine, once KiM is reintegrated again. you will see prosperity and peace come back, once the criminal elements amongst you have left KiM, with international money they have stolen from you, of course.
but unfortunately, it is still too early for you to realize that. that will need more time.
but one thing is certain: Serbia will prevail, and even Mr.Tadic cannot prevent that with his partition-phantasies about "reality on the field".
As I said; I don't know much about these figures, but it seems you can only state that 'Kosovo was almost 100% Albanian' before WWI only because the Serbs disappeared for some reason. Not much earlier their amount was significantly higher. Concerning the difference of 72.000; maybe the borders had changed somewhat and both measurings were taken in a slightly different political or administrative entity. The population might have grown as well; 72.000 between 1871 and 1911 doesn't sound impossible to me.
(JS, 28 March 2011 15:31)
My comment was not to dispute anything you said just pointing out when we keep talking about Serbs being cleansed from Kosovo, the numbers do not match the claims. Even if what you say is true then post 1911 there were no Serbs left, How were they again cleansed in 1999?
My implication was not that you manipulated the numbers, but in most probability either the 318,000 or the 400,000 numbers are not accurate maybe both.
@pss; It was clear to me you didn't accuse me of manipulating. I was just thinking loudly in order to find a logical explanation for those figures. Nonetheless I think saying that 'Kosovo was almost 100% Albanian' is only half the story, because it seems the Serbs were driven out for some reason. Even if the figures are not 100% correct, it remains clear that a lot of Serbs 'vanished' from the area. After WWI, Kosovo was integrated in Yugoslavia and as a result the number of Serbs slowly increased again (until the late 60's or so). That explains, I think, a higher number of Serbs in the 90's, compared to the situation before WWI.
My 'anger' was still more directed to (people like) 'KOSO', because he only cited the part he liked. Sorry about that.
A lot of truth in it. But you cannot blame the EU/EULEX. It's impossible to establish some democratic and legal structures in a country build of crime, corruption and a clan-based society, and against the people living there. As everyone could see in the last elections, Kosovo Albanians prefer to be ruled by corrupt people and alleged criminals.
pss,
so you're hung up on serbia's numbers from the 19th century, yet somehow you're okay with albania's numbers from the 21st century -- you know the 1 million+ ethnically cleansed?...
just wondering where you draw the line on credibility and logical numerology ;)
Its refreshingly good feeling to hear MEP Mr.Pinno Arcachi speaks truth
about Kosovo.The idea of creating EU is a good one.However,It should take in all of the legitimate States of continent of Europe, meeting the required
minimum standard.If properly structured, could work to benefit both poor and rich States of the union.Economic system should be entrepreneurial
competitive market free.Emphasis should be on education,innovation and
dedication to work details.No underground (illegal)economy should be tolerated.Safety net should be provided for those who are struggling.
As for defense we should provide minimum required.EU should never be engaged in using force for Nation building or colonization. If this experiment is successful it could be a blue print for the conflict free Planet Earth.World religions are needed to keep cohesion.
I would like to point out that now the West can not any more escape reality, facts can not be ignored any longer. EU in my opinion should start to distance itself from U.S. cowboy policy. Now many Europeans realize they were hoodwinked into recognizing Kosovo’s independence on the pretence it would resolve problems and bring peace – it didn’t happen; a new approach is needed. The Dick Marty's report and now public supporting material from western intelligence could be start for reassessment of Kosovo status and operations/presence of international community there.
(More about case in article “Captured Pseudo-State Kosovo” in http://arirusila.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/captured-pseudo-state-kosovo/ )
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