The trial of former Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) commanders accused of torturing and killing civilians in two detention camps in Albania started in Priština.
''The US threw Manning in jail because he released Top Secret documents, not because he didn't want to fight. Manning is a criminal, not just a wimp. And with your logic, Agim and Kosova-Usuck, any child fighter in Africa who didn't want to fight after being drafted into the rebel groups would be a criminal?
(American Eagle, 16 March 2011 19:49) ^^
There is no commonsense logic in war time, The rules are strict, you like them or not...In UCK served only men aged 18-44, recruitng underage is also possible but UCK did not recruit minors, in ww2 many partizans were around 16 and 17, but it is not wise, handling a gun to a kid would mean defeat...in every single modern army, mutinity, desertion in war period, is punished by death...if a soldier in afghanistan refuses to go for patrol or punches his own officer, simply gets a couple of years in prison, that's because the situation there is different, the war there is not that critical for the US...but if a US soldier refuses to fight or punches his own officer when let's virtually say , the chinese army has landed in US territory and is marching toward washington(or in any other alike virtual situation )...the punishment is execution straight away... why do you think soviets won ww2?? They executed every single soldier who dared to go back during combat...soviet soldiers feared their own machine guns, because they had more chances of surving in front of german tank than in front of their own machine guns, and those soldiers who left their lines were not cowards or traitors, they simple panic, no matter how brave a man can be, he would panic when facing a tank with a rifle... killing innocent civilians and children is serious crime through...
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
(Top, 16 March 2011 20:44)
Yes...or just move the "leaders" and "freedom fighters" to live on a nice peaceful (functioning) island called Alcatraz.
Stipe Mesic said best: 'This is like after the WW2 Nazis went after Americans, Russians, French, for war crimes.
(ivan, 16 March 2011 16:17)
The only little,very little difference is that the allies were the most powerful countries while Croats and Albanians are jokees and would have been crushed like in 1918 and 1945 hadn`t their masters massively intervened in favour of them!
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
(Top, 16 March 2011 20:44)
Confused, where is it Jeremic has spent an extreme amount of time forging relations and boasting of support for Serbia. Is it not on the African continent, those same countries you are trying to relate Kosovo with in a negative way?
"And how do you know they came to KLA to join? From what i've heard, the KLA went to towns "snatching" up men and boys to serve in the KLA."
(Milan T, 16 March 2011 19:49)
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
(Top, 16 March 2011 20:44)
No thankyou, we dont want them tarnishing our great continent
to the blind k-trolls and frisco the great.... article from a Swiss newspaper, original and translation.
Interesting that these two criminals were mentioned in Mr Marty's report..., the truth is slowly unfolding !
War crimes: a witness referred to the abuse in a camp in Albania
One witness spoke in court Wednesday in Pristina abuse and torture to which he was the victim, with others in a prison camp of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), located in Albania in late 90.
AFP - March 16, 2011, 8:14 p.m.
One witness spoke in court Wednesday in Pristina abuse and torture to which he was the victim, with others in a prison camp of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), located in Albania in late 90.
"I was experiencing abuse at any time," said the protected witness, who spoke under the code name of "B" at the trial of two former commanders of the KLA, Sabit Geci and Alija Riza.
The two men are accused of war crimes for acts of torture perpetrated on civilians in prison camps in Albania. Their trial opened on Monday in Pristina.
This is the first time a trial addresses the topic of the camps would have settled illegally on guerrillas of the KLA in Albania, a country bordering Kosovo during the conflict between Kosovo Albanian separatists and the forces of Belgrade, 1998 and 1999.
Witness B said that "very often vanished" after suffering beatings and ill-treatment which generally began in the evening to end at dawn.
Sabit Geci names and Riza Alija, arrested last year, are mentioned in the report adopted in January by the Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe. This report discusses an alleged organ trafficking allegedly committed in the late 90s into Albanian territory by officials of the KLA.
Written by Swiss MP Dick Marty, he mentions the name of Hashim Thaci, the current Prime Minister of Kosovo. The latter has strongly denied any involvement in the trafficking of organs.
Both defendants have pleaded not guilty before a panel of judges chaired by Kosovar and international Briton Jonathan Welford-Carroll.
International judges are the European Police Mission and Justice (EULEX) in Kosovo.
According to the indictment, read out by the Italian prosecutor Mauricio Salustro, the camps in Albania were used for purposes of "logistics, training and procurement," but the two accused had used them to detain civilians in "unsanitary conditions and dirt" extreme.
Sabit Geci and Riza Alija are accused of detaining Albanian Kosovars who fled the conflict and who were suspected by their captors to work with the Serbian regime of Slobodan Milosevic or to have "different political views" of those of the KLA.
Extensive security measures, with the deployment of special police forces had been taken to protect the building from the Supreme Court of Kosovo, where the trial took place.
Several policemen with bullet-proof vests were also present in the court.
The witness B speaking by video from another room and his voice was distorted to prevent identification.
He explained how he had been detained at the headquarters of the KLA in Kukes, Albania, May 15 to June 16, 1999, and identified Sabit Geci as one of his torturers.
"I have many memories in my head, but also on my body. After being hit once by four members (the KLA), Geci grabbed a gun and hit me in the head, "continued the witness" B ".
"They then put salt on the wound," he added, saying he had witnessed beatings of three Kosovar Roma musicians, who were also held in Kukes.
Eighteen protected witnesses at trial should be scrolled. This one will resume next Monday.
Ivan - War crimes are war crimes, no matter who perpetrated them. As for Mesic, he lost all credibility in the last few months of his term as president when he let his guard down and revealed what a nasty nationalist he really is. No wonder you look up to him. At least Croatia and Serbia are now being led by people who want to build a positive relationship between the two countries. Hopefully, the era of you and your kind is over.
"And how do you know they came to KLA to join? From what i've heard, the KLA went to towns "snatching" up men and boys to serve in the KLA."
(Milan T, 16 March 2011 19:49)
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
"I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???"
(Kosova-USA, 16 March 2011 14:16)
Could it be that these civilians didn't want 'so bad to join' the mafia clan oops.. freedom fighter group called KLA but were forced to do so?
These guys came to join KLA, but after signing up they chickened out. Therefore, they were treated as spy suspects(meaning interrogation/mistreatment) from these two clowns. I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???
(Kosova-USA, 16 March 2011 14:16)
And how do you know they came to KLA to join? From what i've heard, the KLA went to towns "snatching" up men and boys to serve in the KLA. Is it not possible that these were men that were grabbed to join the KLA and refused to fight? There are Serbians that were snatched up to fight for the KLA and when the KLA found out they were Serbian they mysteriously vanished.
Every army has disciplining facilities, and typically those considered spies or traitors, get the harshest treatement of them all.
(arti, 16 March 2011 16:30)
RE: Army?
The KLA never was an army but a terrorist organization.
For you to know all this information about these two, you are either full of hot air or a member of the KLA. Which is it?
The US threw Manning in jail because he released Top Secret documents, not because he didn't want to fight. Manning is a criminal, not just a wimp. And with your logic, Agim and Kosova-Usuck, any child fighter in Africa who didn't want to fight after being drafted into the rebel groups would be a criminal?
-- Stipe Mesic said best: 'This is like after the WW2 Nazis went after Americans, Russians, French, for war crimes.--
ivan
Stipe Mesic said that? So his nazi croats went after the Americans and co?
He's critisizing himself and his people???!!!
If you compare the international community in Kosovo as nazis you shouldn't forget that those same nazis are feeding your people in Kosovo. Those same nazis have recognized the independence of Kosovo. If your friends are nazis what does it make you?
According to the indictment, the camps in Albania were “logistics, training and supply centers” but Geci and Alija were also using them to keep civilians in “dirty and unhealthy conditions”.
Logistics, training and supply centers? Interesting. What does it mean? Prisoner logistics? Organ suply? Training for some surgeons? ;-)
throw them in jail and throw away the key. many albanians are known to the world as terrorists as of late and more and more stories are coming out and America is fed up with them already.
"I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???"
(Kosova-USA, 16 March 2011 14:16)
Could it be that these civilians didn't want 'so bad to join' the mafia clan oops.. freedom fighter group called KLA but were forced to do so?
throw them in jail and throw away the key. many albanians are known to the world as terrorists as of late and more and more stories are coming out and America is fed up with them already.
Every army has disciplining facilities, and typically those considered spies or traitors, get the harshest treatement of them all.
Why do you think US is holding Bradley Manning in prison?
For heavens sake, Putin poisoned Litvinenko right in the middle of London, with the entire world watching, just because he thought he was a spy, who are you giving moral lectures to?
well kosousa, if you skeptical, (i assume in stead of spectical) perhaps you might ask yourself why you would want to have joined, as you seem like a rife nationalist and a likely candidate for joining a nationalistic malitia, then perhaps you can imagine that some, not all of course, of the allegations emerging about the nature of the kla and their brutality is perhaps true, and perhaps these few, unlike some of the posters on this site have true moral integrity and thought that acts of deprevatity were not why they wanted to sign up, they maybe saw some light and thought that things weren't as they thought before they came to join up for the righteous fight.
Where do they get the gall to kill & torture Serbs? THEY should apologize. After coming from the Caucasus 1000 years ago assimilating some paleo-Balkan populations, they betrayed their neighbors and served the Turks who let them cleanse & colonize N.Albania, KiM, MK & Epirus, then they served the Austrians who created Albania & the fake Illyrian origin theory debunked by genetics & linguistics, then they served Hitler & Mussolini who created Greater Albania, then Mao & Stalin and now NATO.
The prisoners were regularly beaten with nightsticks, kicked, tortured and humiliated, it is said in the indictment.
It has been announced that about 20 protected witnesses will testify by the end of June.
Lets get the story right. All victims/witnessess were K-Albanians and none of them are in protective custody and/or WITSEC program, since all of them live in different western countries.These guys came to join KLA, but after signing up they chickened out. Therefore, they were treated as spy suspects(meaning interrogation/mistreatment) from these two clowns. I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???
throw them in jail and throw away the key. many albanians are known to the world as terrorists as of late and more and more stories are coming out and America is fed up with them already.
throw them in jail and throw away the key. many albanians are known to the world as terrorists as of late and more and more stories are coming out and America is fed up with them already.
Where do they get the gall to kill & torture Serbs? THEY should apologize. After coming from the Caucasus 1000 years ago assimilating some paleo-Balkan populations, they betrayed their neighbors and served the Turks who let them cleanse & colonize N.Albania, KiM, MK & Epirus, then they served the Austrians who created Albania & the fake Illyrian origin theory debunked by genetics & linguistics, then they served Hitler & Mussolini who created Greater Albania, then Mao & Stalin and now NATO.
Every army has disciplining facilities, and typically those considered spies or traitors, get the harshest treatement of them all.
Why do you think US is holding Bradley Manning in prison?
For heavens sake, Putin poisoned Litvinenko right in the middle of London, with the entire world watching, just because he thought he was a spy, who are you giving moral lectures to?
The prisoners were regularly beaten with nightsticks, kicked, tortured and humiliated, it is said in the indictment.
It has been announced that about 20 protected witnesses will testify by the end of June.
Lets get the story right. All victims/witnessess were K-Albanians and none of them are in protective custody and/or WITSEC program, since all of them live in different western countries.These guys came to join KLA, but after signing up they chickened out. Therefore, they were treated as spy suspects(meaning interrogation/mistreatment) from these two clowns. I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???
According to the indictment, the camps in Albania were “logistics, training and supply centers” but Geci and Alija were also using them to keep civilians in “dirty and unhealthy conditions”.
Logistics, training and supply centers? Interesting. What does it mean? Prisoner logistics? Organ suply? Training for some surgeons? ;-)
"I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???"
(Kosova-USA, 16 March 2011 14:16)
Could it be that these civilians didn't want 'so bad to join' the mafia clan oops.. freedom fighter group called KLA but were forced to do so?
to the blind k-trolls and frisco the great.... article from a Swiss newspaper, original and translation.
Interesting that these two criminals were mentioned in Mr Marty's report..., the truth is slowly unfolding !
War crimes: a witness referred to the abuse in a camp in Albania
One witness spoke in court Wednesday in Pristina abuse and torture to which he was the victim, with others in a prison camp of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), located in Albania in late 90.
AFP - March 16, 2011, 8:14 p.m.
One witness spoke in court Wednesday in Pristina abuse and torture to which he was the victim, with others in a prison camp of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), located in Albania in late 90.
"I was experiencing abuse at any time," said the protected witness, who spoke under the code name of "B" at the trial of two former commanders of the KLA, Sabit Geci and Alija Riza.
The two men are accused of war crimes for acts of torture perpetrated on civilians in prison camps in Albania. Their trial opened on Monday in Pristina.
This is the first time a trial addresses the topic of the camps would have settled illegally on guerrillas of the KLA in Albania, a country bordering Kosovo during the conflict between Kosovo Albanian separatists and the forces of Belgrade, 1998 and 1999.
Witness B said that "very often vanished" after suffering beatings and ill-treatment which generally began in the evening to end at dawn.
Sabit Geci names and Riza Alija, arrested last year, are mentioned in the report adopted in January by the Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe. This report discusses an alleged organ trafficking allegedly committed in the late 90s into Albanian territory by officials of the KLA.
Written by Swiss MP Dick Marty, he mentions the name of Hashim Thaci, the current Prime Minister of Kosovo. The latter has strongly denied any involvement in the trafficking of organs.
Both defendants have pleaded not guilty before a panel of judges chaired by Kosovar and international Briton Jonathan Welford-Carroll.
International judges are the European Police Mission and Justice (EULEX) in Kosovo.
According to the indictment, read out by the Italian prosecutor Mauricio Salustro, the camps in Albania were used for purposes of "logistics, training and procurement," but the two accused had used them to detain civilians in "unsanitary conditions and dirt" extreme.
Sabit Geci and Riza Alija are accused of detaining Albanian Kosovars who fled the conflict and who were suspected by their captors to work with the Serbian regime of Slobodan Milosevic or to have "different political views" of those of the KLA.
Extensive security measures, with the deployment of special police forces had been taken to protect the building from the Supreme Court of Kosovo, where the trial took place.
Several policemen with bullet-proof vests were also present in the court.
The witness B speaking by video from another room and his voice was distorted to prevent identification.
He explained how he had been detained at the headquarters of the KLA in Kukes, Albania, May 15 to June 16, 1999, and identified Sabit Geci as one of his torturers.
"I have many memories in my head, but also on my body. After being hit once by four members (the KLA), Geci grabbed a gun and hit me in the head, "continued the witness" B ".
"They then put salt on the wound," he added, saying he had witnessed beatings of three Kosovar Roma musicians, who were also held in Kukes.
Eighteen protected witnesses at trial should be scrolled. This one will resume next Monday.
well kosousa, if you skeptical, (i assume in stead of spectical) perhaps you might ask yourself why you would want to have joined, as you seem like a rife nationalist and a likely candidate for joining a nationalistic malitia, then perhaps you can imagine that some, not all of course, of the allegations emerging about the nature of the kla and their brutality is perhaps true, and perhaps these few, unlike some of the posters on this site have true moral integrity and thought that acts of deprevatity were not why they wanted to sign up, they maybe saw some light and thought that things weren't as they thought before they came to join up for the righteous fight.
Every army has disciplining facilities, and typically those considered spies or traitors, get the harshest treatement of them all.
(arti, 16 March 2011 16:30)
RE: Army?
The KLA never was an army but a terrorist organization.
These guys came to join KLA, but after signing up they chickened out. Therefore, they were treated as spy suspects(meaning interrogation/mistreatment) from these two clowns. I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???
(Kosova-USA, 16 March 2011 14:16)
And how do you know they came to KLA to join? From what i've heard, the KLA went to towns "snatching" up men and boys to serve in the KLA. Is it not possible that these were men that were grabbed to join the KLA and refused to fight? There are Serbians that were snatched up to fight for the KLA and when the KLA found out they were Serbian they mysteriously vanished.
Ivan - War crimes are war crimes, no matter who perpetrated them. As for Mesic, he lost all credibility in the last few months of his term as president when he let his guard down and revealed what a nasty nationalist he really is. No wonder you look up to him. At least Croatia and Serbia are now being led by people who want to build a positive relationship between the two countries. Hopefully, the era of you and your kind is over.
"And how do you know they came to KLA to join? From what i've heard, the KLA went to towns "snatching" up men and boys to serve in the KLA."
(Milan T, 16 March 2011 19:49)
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
Stipe Mesic said best: 'This is like after the WW2 Nazis went after Americans, Russians, French, for war crimes.
(ivan, 16 March 2011 16:17)
The only little,very little difference is that the allies were the most powerful countries while Croats and Albanians are jokees and would have been crushed like in 1918 and 1945 hadn`t their masters massively intervened in favour of them!
For you to know all this information about these two, you are either full of hot air or a member of the KLA. Which is it?
The US threw Manning in jail because he released Top Secret documents, not because he didn't want to fight. Manning is a criminal, not just a wimp. And with your logic, Agim and Kosova-Usuck, any child fighter in Africa who didn't want to fight after being drafted into the rebel groups would be a criminal?
"And how do you know they came to KLA to join? From what i've heard, the KLA went to towns "snatching" up men and boys to serve in the KLA."
(Milan T, 16 March 2011 19:49)
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
(Top, 16 March 2011 20:44)
No thankyou, we dont want them tarnishing our great continent
-- Stipe Mesic said best: 'This is like after the WW2 Nazis went after Americans, Russians, French, for war crimes.--
ivan
Stipe Mesic said that? So his nazi croats went after the Americans and co?
He's critisizing himself and his people???!!!
If you compare the international community in Kosovo as nazis you shouldn't forget that those same nazis are feeding your people in Kosovo. Those same nazis have recognized the independence of Kosovo. If your friends are nazis what does it make you?
"I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???"
(Kosova-USA, 16 March 2011 14:16)
Could it be that these civilians didn't want 'so bad to join' the mafia clan oops.. freedom fighter group called KLA but were forced to do so?
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
(Top, 16 March 2011 20:44)
Confused, where is it Jeremic has spent an extreme amount of time forging relations and boasting of support for Serbia. Is it not on the African continent, those same countries you are trying to relate Kosovo with in a negative way?
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
(Top, 16 March 2011 20:44)
Yes...or just move the "leaders" and "freedom fighters" to live on a nice peaceful (functioning) island called Alcatraz.
''The US threw Manning in jail because he released Top Secret documents, not because he didn't want to fight. Manning is a criminal, not just a wimp. And with your logic, Agim and Kosova-Usuck, any child fighter in Africa who didn't want to fight after being drafted into the rebel groups would be a criminal?
(American Eagle, 16 March 2011 19:49) ^^
There is no commonsense logic in war time, The rules are strict, you like them or not...In UCK served only men aged 18-44, recruitng underage is also possible but UCK did not recruit minors, in ww2 many partizans were around 16 and 17, but it is not wise, handling a gun to a kid would mean defeat...in every single modern army, mutinity, desertion in war period, is punished by death...if a soldier in afghanistan refuses to go for patrol or punches his own officer, simply gets a couple of years in prison, that's because the situation there is different, the war there is not that critical for the US...but if a US soldier refuses to fight or punches his own officer when let's virtually say , the chinese army has landed in US territory and is marching toward washington(or in any other alike virtual situation )...the punishment is execution straight away... why do you think soviets won ww2?? They executed every single soldier who dared to go back during combat...soviet soldiers feared their own machine guns, because they had more chances of surving in front of german tank than in front of their own machine guns, and those soldiers who left their lines were not cowards or traitors, they simple panic, no matter how brave a man can be, he would panic when facing a tank with a rifle... killing innocent civilians and children is serious crime through...
Where do they get the gall to kill & torture Serbs? THEY should apologize. After coming from the Caucasus 1000 years ago assimilating some paleo-Balkan populations, they betrayed their neighbors and served the Turks who let them cleanse & colonize N.Albania, KiM, MK & Epirus, then they served the Austrians who created Albania & the fake Illyrian origin theory debunked by genetics & linguistics, then they served Hitler & Mussolini who created Greater Albania, then Mao & Stalin and now NATO.
throw them in jail and throw away the key. many albanians are known to the world as terrorists as of late and more and more stories are coming out and America is fed up with them already.
The prisoners were regularly beaten with nightsticks, kicked, tortured and humiliated, it is said in the indictment.
It has been announced that about 20 protected witnesses will testify by the end of June.
Lets get the story right. All victims/witnessess were K-Albanians and none of them are in protective custody and/or WITSEC program, since all of them live in different western countries.These guys came to join KLA, but after signing up they chickened out. Therefore, they were treated as spy suspects(meaning interrogation/mistreatment) from these two clowns. I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???
According to the indictment, the camps in Albania were “logistics, training and supply centers” but Geci and Alija were also using them to keep civilians in “dirty and unhealthy conditions”.
Logistics, training and supply centers? Interesting. What does it mean? Prisoner logistics? Organ suply? Training for some surgeons? ;-)
"I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???"
(Kosova-USA, 16 March 2011 14:16)
Could it be that these civilians didn't want 'so bad to join' the mafia clan oops.. freedom fighter group called KLA but were forced to do so?
throw them in jail and throw away the key. many albanians are known to the world as terrorists as of late and more and more stories are coming out and America is fed up with them already.
well kosousa, if you skeptical, (i assume in stead of spectical) perhaps you might ask yourself why you would want to have joined, as you seem like a rife nationalist and a likely candidate for joining a nationalistic malitia, then perhaps you can imagine that some, not all of course, of the allegations emerging about the nature of the kla and their brutality is perhaps true, and perhaps these few, unlike some of the posters on this site have true moral integrity and thought that acts of deprevatity were not why they wanted to sign up, they maybe saw some light and thought that things weren't as they thought before they came to join up for the righteous fight.
Every army has disciplining facilities, and typically those considered spies or traitors, get the harshest treatement of them all.
Why do you think US is holding Bradley Manning in prison?
For heavens sake, Putin poisoned Litvinenko right in the middle of London, with the entire world watching, just because he thought he was a spy, who are you giving moral lectures to?
These guys came to join KLA, but after signing up they chickened out. Therefore, they were treated as spy suspects(meaning interrogation/mistreatment) from these two clowns. I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???
(Kosova-USA, 16 March 2011 14:16)
And how do you know they came to KLA to join? From what i've heard, the KLA went to towns "snatching" up men and boys to serve in the KLA. Is it not possible that these were men that were grabbed to join the KLA and refused to fight? There are Serbians that were snatched up to fight for the KLA and when the KLA found out they were Serbian they mysteriously vanished.
-- Stipe Mesic said best: 'This is like after the WW2 Nazis went after Americans, Russians, French, for war crimes.--
ivan
Stipe Mesic said that? So his nazi croats went after the Americans and co?
He's critisizing himself and his people???!!!
If you compare the international community in Kosovo as nazis you shouldn't forget that those same nazis are feeding your people in Kosovo. Those same nazis have recognized the independence of Kosovo. If your friends are nazis what does it make you?
Every army has disciplining facilities, and typically those considered spies or traitors, get the harshest treatement of them all.
(arti, 16 March 2011 16:30)
RE: Army?
The KLA never was an army but a terrorist organization.
Ivan - War crimes are war crimes, no matter who perpetrated them. As for Mesic, he lost all credibility in the last few months of his term as president when he let his guard down and revealed what a nasty nationalist he really is. No wonder you look up to him. At least Croatia and Serbia are now being led by people who want to build a positive relationship between the two countries. Hopefully, the era of you and your kind is over.
"And how do you know they came to KLA to join? From what i've heard, the KLA went to towns "snatching" up men and boys to serve in the KLA."
(Milan T, 16 March 2011 19:49)
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
For you to know all this information about these two, you are either full of hot air or a member of the KLA. Which is it?
The US threw Manning in jail because he released Top Secret documents, not because he didn't want to fight. Manning is a criminal, not just a wimp. And with your logic, Agim and Kosova-Usuck, any child fighter in Africa who didn't want to fight after being drafted into the rebel groups would be a criminal?
"I don't see any big deal about this trial. If found guilty, they should face punishment, but at same time I am spectical about intention of these victims/witnesses wanting so bad to join KLA, and then to pull out. WHY???"
(Kosova-USA, 16 March 2011 14:16)
Could it be that these civilians didn't want 'so bad to join' the mafia clan oops.. freedom fighter group called KLA but were forced to do so?
Stipe Mesic said best: 'This is like after the WW2 Nazis went after Americans, Russians, French, for war crimes.
(ivan, 16 March 2011 16:17)
The only little,very little difference is that the allies were the most powerful countries while Croats and Albanians are jokees and would have been crushed like in 1918 and 1945 hadn`t their masters massively intervened in favour of them!
to the blind k-trolls and frisco the great.... article from a Swiss newspaper, original and translation.
Interesting that these two criminals were mentioned in Mr Marty's report..., the truth is slowly unfolding !
War crimes: a witness referred to the abuse in a camp in Albania
One witness spoke in court Wednesday in Pristina abuse and torture to which he was the victim, with others in a prison camp of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), located in Albania in late 90.
AFP - March 16, 2011, 8:14 p.m.
One witness spoke in court Wednesday in Pristina abuse and torture to which he was the victim, with others in a prison camp of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), located in Albania in late 90.
"I was experiencing abuse at any time," said the protected witness, who spoke under the code name of "B" at the trial of two former commanders of the KLA, Sabit Geci and Alija Riza.
The two men are accused of war crimes for acts of torture perpetrated on civilians in prison camps in Albania. Their trial opened on Monday in Pristina.
This is the first time a trial addresses the topic of the camps would have settled illegally on guerrillas of the KLA in Albania, a country bordering Kosovo during the conflict between Kosovo Albanian separatists and the forces of Belgrade, 1998 and 1999.
Witness B said that "very often vanished" after suffering beatings and ill-treatment which generally began in the evening to end at dawn.
Sabit Geci names and Riza Alija, arrested last year, are mentioned in the report adopted in January by the Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe. This report discusses an alleged organ trafficking allegedly committed in the late 90s into Albanian territory by officials of the KLA.
Written by Swiss MP Dick Marty, he mentions the name of Hashim Thaci, the current Prime Minister of Kosovo. The latter has strongly denied any involvement in the trafficking of organs.
Both defendants have pleaded not guilty before a panel of judges chaired by Kosovar and international Briton Jonathan Welford-Carroll.
International judges are the European Police Mission and Justice (EULEX) in Kosovo.
According to the indictment, read out by the Italian prosecutor Mauricio Salustro, the camps in Albania were used for purposes of "logistics, training and procurement," but the two accused had used them to detain civilians in "unsanitary conditions and dirt" extreme.
Sabit Geci and Riza Alija are accused of detaining Albanian Kosovars who fled the conflict and who were suspected by their captors to work with the Serbian regime of Slobodan Milosevic or to have "different political views" of those of the KLA.
Extensive security measures, with the deployment of special police forces had been taken to protect the building from the Supreme Court of Kosovo, where the trial took place.
Several policemen with bullet-proof vests were also present in the court.
The witness B speaking by video from another room and his voice was distorted to prevent identification.
He explained how he had been detained at the headquarters of the KLA in Kukes, Albania, May 15 to June 16, 1999, and identified Sabit Geci as one of his torturers.
"I have many memories in my head, but also on my body. After being hit once by four members (the KLA), Geci grabbed a gun and hit me in the head, "continued the witness" B ".
"They then put salt on the wound," he added, saying he had witnessed beatings of three Kosovar Roma musicians, who were also held in Kukes.
Eighteen protected witnesses at trial should be scrolled. This one will resume next Monday.
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
(Top, 16 March 2011 20:44)
Confused, where is it Jeremic has spent an extreme amount of time forging relations and boasting of support for Serbia. Is it not on the African continent, those same countries you are trying to relate Kosovo with in a negative way?
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
(Top, 16 March 2011 20:44)
Yes...or just move the "leaders" and "freedom fighters" to live on a nice peaceful (functioning) island called Alcatraz.
''The US threw Manning in jail because he released Top Secret documents, not because he didn't want to fight. Manning is a criminal, not just a wimp. And with your logic, Agim and Kosova-Usuck, any child fighter in Africa who didn't want to fight after being drafted into the rebel groups would be a criminal?
(American Eagle, 16 March 2011 19:49) ^^
There is no commonsense logic in war time, The rules are strict, you like them or not...In UCK served only men aged 18-44, recruitng underage is also possible but UCK did not recruit minors, in ww2 many partizans were around 16 and 17, but it is not wise, handling a gun to a kid would mean defeat...in every single modern army, mutinity, desertion in war period, is punished by death...if a soldier in afghanistan refuses to go for patrol or punches his own officer, simply gets a couple of years in prison, that's because the situation there is different, the war there is not that critical for the US...but if a US soldier refuses to fight or punches his own officer when let's virtually say , the chinese army has landed in US territory and is marching toward washington(or in any other alike virtual situation )...the punishment is execution straight away... why do you think soviets won ww2?? They executed every single soldier who dared to go back during combat...soviet soldiers feared their own machine guns, because they had more chances of surving in front of german tank than in front of their own machine guns, and those soldiers who left their lines were not cowards or traitors, they simple panic, no matter how brave a man can be, he would panic when facing a tank with a rifle... killing innocent civilians and children is serious crime through...
"And how do you know they came to KLA to join? From what i've heard, the KLA went to towns "snatching" up men and boys to serve in the KLA."
(Milan T, 16 March 2011 19:49)
I get more and more the impression that Kosovo should be relocated to Africa. The attitude and behaviour of their "leaders" suits much better there.
(Top, 16 March 2011 20:44)
No thankyou, we dont want them tarnishing our great continent
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