“We must solve Kosovo issue before we join EU”

Creative solutions are only for your public consumption, but reality is different, Bozhidare.I can't wait to see an article from FM Vuk, saying something else in regard to this dialogue.

Keep on dreaming and do not forget to wake up.

You do everything to ease your mind.

Tung

Still albanians think they can have everything and give up nothing. Either compromise or accept status quo.

Yes, a model like Hong Kong would be fine: Serbia is selling/renting Kosovo to Paccoli for 99 years, and after that it will be returned to it's owner. Maybe Thaci could join and give some of his drug money to rent a little Thaci Kingdom in the Drenica region :)

We must solve Kosovo issue before joining EU.
And that is not going to happen any time soon. So, what's the hurry?

Serbia doesn't have only one issue to solve, believe me.

Sounds like more than autonomy, less than independence to me. I have always maintained the EU was engineering a solution within itself where "Kosova" has a special status but without full international legitimacy.

However, the EU is becoming less desirable as time passes and fortunately Serbians are losing interest in the idea. We will see what happens in a few years time.

It seems this is what these talks are all about: Belgrade making good on its efforts to find a "solution" to the "Kosovo problem" before full EU integration is realized. Ok fine. But from the looks of how these negotiations are structured, Belgrade's getting off pretty easy since the EU is taking a neutral position on all fronts, including status and recognition.

An interesting article summing up the nature of these talks notes even among Albanian elites in Kosovo there is a growing feeling they're being taken for a ride

http://eastofcenter.tol.org/2011/03/at-least-they%E2%80%99re-talking/

And the cited article in Albanian from Koha Ditore

http://www.kohaditore.com/index.php?cid=1,12,51490

The HK model is actually a good idea, everyone achieves part of what they are looking for and should reduce tension in the region. Otherwise I see another armed conflict in the future, the powderkeg is always building in the balkans.

Ok to the opnes that hope for the HK solution. It will not happen. Maybe Germany comes to mind where kosovo is independent and Serbia must repspect it teritorial integrity but not recognise it. Once that is achived NATO membership and borders are secured

Mike,
no one has been taken for a ride and no is being forced to agree on anything. The 'talks' have already failed, read Albanian sites. EU is back at step 1 and can't claim its much needed foreign policy victory. Now Kosova will ban Serbian plates, products etc. EU can't do jack about it, just watch.

Yes, a model like Hong Kong would be fine: Serbia is selling/renting Kosovo to Paccoli for 99 years, and after that it will be returned to it's owner. Maybe Thaci could join and give some of his drug money to rent a little Thaci Kingdom in the Drenica region :)
(Top, 11 March 2011 15:07) During the talks prior to 2008 several members of the international community floated these ideas Serbian response was no way no how. Then it could have received international support, now the countries that have recognized Kosovo will not support them.
Some type of functional partition of Kosovo is the very best that Serbia can hope for now, a total partition is extremely doubtful.

“We must solve Kosovo issue before we join EU”

The title says it all. The title is in contradiction with the content of the article. The content says pretty much do nothing and continue the same destructive policy. The title recognizes that something needs to be done, that doing nothing it's not an option anymore if Serbia wants to join EU.

What's left other than recognition?

AdamNYC

And albanians have so much more to offer! Drugs, high birthrates, high unemployement, no education what so ever.
Quite a county you have made out of Albania. There is no field in which albanians are successful except crime.
Serbia is moving ahead, with or without Kosovo. However, Kosovo can't go anywhere without Serbia. No UN, no investments, no nothing!

"Kosovo’s progress is non-existent."
http://www.economist.com/node/18013840

ENJOY!!!

No EU with kosovo. It is already long gone.

now its just a matter of slowly massaging the truth into serb population

We must solve Kosovo issue before joining EU.

Wait, I thought joining EU and the status of Kosovo are two separate issues?!?! The truth finally comes out.

The parts of Kosovo controlled by Pristina certainly won't join the EU unless it cleans itself up, something it has shown it has no intention of doing. After the Bg & Ro debacle, the possibility of brushing such failure under the carpet is simply no longer viable.

Serbia can drag out the process much longer than Kosovo can as Kosovo needs normal trade with its neighbors. Brussels is praying that Serbia allows this in return for 'assurances' (i.e. promises) and prays that this will somehow turn Kosovo as the hub for criminality in south east europe in to something resembling a functioning territory. It has more in common with Pakistan than any european stated and is a nexus of instability. Sooner or later Pristina will be tempted to use its proxy Skopje card, depending on how desperate they become. Tick tock ladies!

He told EurActiv.de that Belgrade hoped that Serbia would be ready to join the EU in late 2015 and stated that possible solutions for Kosovo could be modeled after Hong Kong and two Germanies,

I thought there was already a solution for Kosovo in the Serbian constitution.What is wrong with that Serbs? Both of the models mentioned by Delic are the opposite of Kosovo issue.Because Chinese people in HK and Chinese people in China are still Chinese.And German people in East Germany and German people in West Germany are still Germans.And in both cases these people don't hate each other at least not in ethnic bases.None of these is true when it comes to Serbs and Albanians.

1.Hong-Kong model
Britain was the colonizer of Hong-Kong and its 95% Chinese population.The end result: Britain and China agreed that Chinese people belong together with Chinese people.Following this logic Kosovo which is 90% Albanian should join Albania and not Serbia.

2.Two Germanies model.
Same people separated against their will.Happy ending, they decided to unite again.This is more close to the Serbian dream of their serbian brothers of Montenegro join Serbia again.Following this logic Kosovo Albanians join Albania and not Serbia.

Once that is achived NATO membership and borders are secured
(UNE, 11 March 2011 15:49)
--------------------

You honestly think that there will be no opposition to NATO membership?
Do you really think that NATO countries are just waiting for this moment?
Some are definitely not.

Still albanians think they can have everything and give up nothing. Either compromise or accept status quo.
(Hank the Tank, 11 March 2011 17:10)

sorry, but there is no reason in the world for albanians to give up anything.

accept that reality. whine as much as you wish, you dont get a reward for having tried so hard.

Serbia has nothing, nothing to offer, nothing to lose.

enjoy.

I'd suggest 2 possible solutions where both sides win

2. The Hong Kong Model - Everyone Wins

3. Divide the place in 2, With Pec, Granicha and Kosovo Polje Remaining Part of Serbia (Thats most of the holy sites), and Pristina and the rest becoming Albanian, with special autonomy for any Serbs/Albanians living in the different territories, Rep Srpska reunites with Serbia - Everyone Wins again

I actually do agree with John. Kosovo should be divided. Serbia gets area around Pec,area around Decani, Gracanica, Gazimestan, Northern Kosovo, Novo Brdo, Ranilug, and Partes.
Albanians keep all the major cities (Pristina,Pec,Prizren,Southern Mitrovica,Djakovica,Gnjilane,Urosevac, Klina,Podujevo,Vitina,Istok,Vucitrn, Srbica). The Albanians also keep the Trepca mining facility and all of the major natural resource areas of Kosovo.
Everyones happy then. Serbia keeps the Pec Patriarchate, Decani Monastery, Gracanica Monastery, Banjska Monastery, Gorioc Monastery, and Budisavci Monastery. They also keep the Novo Brdo fortress, Zvecan Fortress, and Gazimestan. They also keep all of the major Serbian enclaves in Kosmet. The Albanians keep all of the major cities and all of the major industrial centers and natural resources. Serbia doesnt need their natural resources all they want is the Sebrian enclaves and the BIG FOUR (Pec Patriarchate,Decani Monastery, Gracanica Monastery, and Gazimestan) Thats it! Its only fair! Albanians keep all of their peopel and natural resources! Serbs keep their people and their most important cultural sites!

Get ready to beg.....

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Weak-euro-countries-plead-for-apf-3088070851.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=

Gjelic "forget" a small detail in his models:
West and East germans are from the same ethnic group speak the same language and have the same traditions.
The same goes for China and Hong-Kong.They are all chinese.
Serbs and Albanians are total different ethnic groups and speak different languages.
The best model for coexistence in this case is both ethnic groups to live in different states i.e Serbia and Kosova( I would prefer the acient name of Dardania but that's a different topic).Everyone is happy and none can blame the other.
P.S Gjeli-c means rooster in Albanian.Probably he is from those albanians who were slavized.They are people who hate albanisns the most in order to be accepted from serbian society.Like Jeremic who is bosniak from his mother side, and he is one the most anti-bosniak people.Or like Emir Kusturica the great traitor and the list goes on...

2. The Hong Kong Model - Everyone Wins

3. Divide the place in 2, With Pec, Granicha and Kosovo Polje Remaining Part of Serbia (Thats most of the holy sites),
Rep Srpska reunites with Serbia - Everyone Wins again
(John, 12 March 2011 10:39)

Albanians will die for what you asking?
Only Serbia wins. If you can afford another war you more than welcome to do that.

"Serbia needs to find a creative solution for Kosovo before it joins the EU"
-
This is what the radicals were saying from the beginning. ???

To me, the real question is: How badly does Serbia want to join the EU? (The Serbian government, that is). If it's considered the only path toward greater national prosperity, then a compromise will have to be reached sooner or later, all nationalist sentiments aside. HK model - maybe? Perhaps a 2-state solution (like Israel and Palestine are supposed to be!).

Albanians will die for what you asking?
Only Serbia wins. If you can afford another war you more than welcome to do that.
(gjon fusha, 12 March 2011 14:29)
====================

Will you stop threatening war every time you hear something you don't like.
Stop threatening with something you cannot do. You can certainly start a war but you cannot finish it. Do you want your people to die for nothing?
Do you honestly believe that Europe has a stomach for any more violence just because you are not happy and without Europe you cannot hold out for even a month.
When you can fight your own battles then you can threaten war. Until then stop speaking of someone else's behalf. First consult Europe if they are willing to fight for "Kosova" again before you threaten anything.

.Or like Emir Kusturica the great traitor and the list goes on...
(Mirel from Albania, 11 March 2011 22:36)
=====================

Actually, Emir only went back to what his ancestors were in the first place.
The only traitors there were his ancestors who converted to Islam from Orthodox.

"The only traitors there were his ancestors who converted to Islam from Orthodox."

Orthodox Serbs were pagans before they converted to Christianity.

What makes Islamic converts "traitors" and not converts to Christianity?

"The end result: Britain and China agreed that Chinese people belong together with Chinese people."


huh?

Britain withdrew from HK because their 100 years lease expired.

Sounds like more than autonomy, less than independence to me. I have always maintained the EU was engineering a solution within itself where "Kosova" has a special status but without full international legitimacy.

However, the EU is becoming less desirable as time passes and fortunately Serbians are losing interest in the idea. We will see what happens in a few years time.

Yes, a model like Hong Kong would be fine: Serbia is selling/renting Kosovo to Paccoli for 99 years, and after that it will be returned to it's owner. Maybe Thaci could join and give some of his drug money to rent a little Thaci Kingdom in the Drenica region :)

The HK model is actually a good idea, everyone achieves part of what they are looking for and should reduce tension in the region. Otherwise I see another armed conflict in the future, the powderkeg is always building in the balkans.

Creative solutions are only for your public consumption, but reality is different, Bozhidare.I can't wait to see an article from FM Vuk, saying something else in regard to this dialogue.

Still albanians think they can have everything and give up nothing. Either compromise or accept status quo.

Serbia doesn't have only one issue to solve, believe me.

Keep on dreaming and do not forget to wake up.

You do everything to ease your mind.

Tung

Ok to the opnes that hope for the HK solution. It will not happen. Maybe Germany comes to mind where kosovo is independent and Serbia must repspect it teritorial integrity but not recognise it. Once that is achived NATO membership and borders are secured

Mike,
no one has been taken for a ride and no is being forced to agree on anything. The 'talks' have already failed, read Albanian sites. EU is back at step 1 and can't claim its much needed foreign policy victory. Now Kosova will ban Serbian plates, products etc. EU can't do jack about it, just watch.

“We must solve Kosovo issue before we join EU”

The title says it all. The title is in contradiction with the content of the article. The content says pretty much do nothing and continue the same destructive policy. The title recognizes that something needs to be done, that doing nothing it's not an option anymore if Serbia wants to join EU.

What's left other than recognition?

It seems this is what these talks are all about: Belgrade making good on its efforts to find a "solution" to the "Kosovo problem" before full EU integration is realized. Ok fine. But from the looks of how these negotiations are structured, Belgrade's getting off pretty easy since the EU is taking a neutral position on all fronts, including status and recognition.

An interesting article summing up the nature of these talks notes even among Albanian elites in Kosovo there is a growing feeling they're being taken for a ride

http://eastofcenter.tol.org/2011/03/at-least-they%E2%80%99re-talking/

And the cited article in Albanian from Koha Ditore

http://www.kohaditore.com/index.php?cid=1,12,51490

Yes, a model like Hong Kong would be fine: Serbia is selling/renting Kosovo to Paccoli for 99 years, and after that it will be returned to it's owner. Maybe Thaci could join and give some of his drug money to rent a little Thaci Kingdom in the Drenica region :)
(Top, 11 March 2011 15:07) During the talks prior to 2008 several members of the international community floated these ideas Serbian response was no way no how. Then it could have received international support, now the countries that have recognized Kosovo will not support them.
Some type of functional partition of Kosovo is the very best that Serbia can hope for now, a total partition is extremely doubtful.

We must solve Kosovo issue before joining EU.
And that is not going to happen any time soon. So, what's the hurry?

Gjelic "forget" a small detail in his models:
West and East germans are from the same ethnic group speak the same language and have the same traditions.
The same goes for China and Hong-Kong.They are all chinese.
Serbs and Albanians are total different ethnic groups and speak different languages.
The best model for coexistence in this case is both ethnic groups to live in different states i.e Serbia and Kosova( I would prefer the acient name of Dardania but that's a different topic).Everyone is happy and none can blame the other.
P.S Gjeli-c means rooster in Albanian.Probably he is from those albanians who were slavized.They are people who hate albanisns the most in order to be accepted from serbian society.Like Jeremic who is bosniak from his mother side, and he is one the most anti-bosniak people.Or like Emir Kusturica the great traitor and the list goes on...

Still albanians think they can have everything and give up nothing. Either compromise or accept status quo.
(Hank the Tank, 11 March 2011 17:10)

sorry, but there is no reason in the world for albanians to give up anything.

accept that reality. whine as much as you wish, you dont get a reward for having tried so hard.

Serbia has nothing, nothing to offer, nothing to lose.

enjoy.

AdamNYC

And albanians have so much more to offer! Drugs, high birthrates, high unemployement, no education what so ever.
Quite a county you have made out of Albania. There is no field in which albanians are successful except crime.
Serbia is moving ahead, with or without Kosovo. However, Kosovo can't go anywhere without Serbia. No UN, no investments, no nothing!

"Kosovo’s progress is non-existent."
http://www.economist.com/node/18013840

ENJOY!!!

No EU with kosovo. It is already long gone.

now its just a matter of slowly massaging the truth into serb population

I'd suggest 2 possible solutions where both sides win

2. The Hong Kong Model - Everyone Wins

3. Divide the place in 2, With Pec, Granicha and Kosovo Polje Remaining Part of Serbia (Thats most of the holy sites), and Pristina and the rest becoming Albanian, with special autonomy for any Serbs/Albanians living in the different territories, Rep Srpska reunites with Serbia - Everyone Wins again

2. The Hong Kong Model - Everyone Wins

3. Divide the place in 2, With Pec, Granicha and Kosovo Polje Remaining Part of Serbia (Thats most of the holy sites),
Rep Srpska reunites with Serbia - Everyone Wins again
(John, 12 March 2011 10:39)

Albanians will die for what you asking?
Only Serbia wins. If you can afford another war you more than welcome to do that.

The parts of Kosovo controlled by Pristina certainly won't join the EU unless it cleans itself up, something it has shown it has no intention of doing. After the Bg & Ro debacle, the possibility of brushing such failure under the carpet is simply no longer viable.

Serbia can drag out the process much longer than Kosovo can as Kosovo needs normal trade with its neighbors. Brussels is praying that Serbia allows this in return for 'assurances' (i.e. promises) and prays that this will somehow turn Kosovo as the hub for criminality in south east europe in to something resembling a functioning territory. It has more in common with Pakistan than any european stated and is a nexus of instability. Sooner or later Pristina will be tempted to use its proxy Skopje card, depending on how desperate they become. Tick tock ladies!

He told EurActiv.de that Belgrade hoped that Serbia would be ready to join the EU in late 2015 and stated that possible solutions for Kosovo could be modeled after Hong Kong and two Germanies,

I thought there was already a solution for Kosovo in the Serbian constitution.What is wrong with that Serbs? Both of the models mentioned by Delic are the opposite of Kosovo issue.Because Chinese people in HK and Chinese people in China are still Chinese.And German people in East Germany and German people in West Germany are still Germans.And in both cases these people don't hate each other at least not in ethnic bases.None of these is true when it comes to Serbs and Albanians.

1.Hong-Kong model
Britain was the colonizer of Hong-Kong and its 95% Chinese population.The end result: Britain and China agreed that Chinese people belong together with Chinese people.Following this logic Kosovo which is 90% Albanian should join Albania and not Serbia.

2.Two Germanies model.
Same people separated against their will.Happy ending, they decided to unite again.This is more close to the Serbian dream of their serbian brothers of Montenegro join Serbia again.Following this logic Kosovo Albanians join Albania and not Serbia.

Once that is achived NATO membership and borders are secured
(UNE, 11 March 2011 15:49)
--------------------

You honestly think that there will be no opposition to NATO membership?
Do you really think that NATO countries are just waiting for this moment?
Some are definitely not.

Get ready to beg.....

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Weak-euro-countries-plead-for-apf-3088070851.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=

We must solve Kosovo issue before joining EU.

Wait, I thought joining EU and the status of Kosovo are two separate issues?!?! The truth finally comes out.

To me, the real question is: How badly does Serbia want to join the EU? (The Serbian government, that is). If it's considered the only path toward greater national prosperity, then a compromise will have to be reached sooner or later, all nationalist sentiments aside. HK model - maybe? Perhaps a 2-state solution (like Israel and Palestine are supposed to be!).

"Serbia needs to find a creative solution for Kosovo before it joins the EU"
-
This is what the radicals were saying from the beginning. ???

Albanians will die for what you asking?
Only Serbia wins. If you can afford another war you more than welcome to do that.
(gjon fusha, 12 March 2011 14:29)
====================

Will you stop threatening war every time you hear something you don't like.
Stop threatening with something you cannot do. You can certainly start a war but you cannot finish it. Do you want your people to die for nothing?
Do you honestly believe that Europe has a stomach for any more violence just because you are not happy and without Europe you cannot hold out for even a month.
When you can fight your own battles then you can threaten war. Until then stop speaking of someone else's behalf. First consult Europe if they are willing to fight for "Kosova" again before you threaten anything.

.Or like Emir Kusturica the great traitor and the list goes on...
(Mirel from Albania, 11 March 2011 22:36)
=====================

Actually, Emir only went back to what his ancestors were in the first place.
The only traitors there were his ancestors who converted to Islam from Orthodox.

I actually do agree with John. Kosovo should be divided. Serbia gets area around Pec,area around Decani, Gracanica, Gazimestan, Northern Kosovo, Novo Brdo, Ranilug, and Partes.
Albanians keep all the major cities (Pristina,Pec,Prizren,Southern Mitrovica,Djakovica,Gnjilane,Urosevac, Klina,Podujevo,Vitina,Istok,Vucitrn, Srbica). The Albanians also keep the Trepca mining facility and all of the major natural resource areas of Kosovo.
Everyones happy then. Serbia keeps the Pec Patriarchate, Decani Monastery, Gracanica Monastery, Banjska Monastery, Gorioc Monastery, and Budisavci Monastery. They also keep the Novo Brdo fortress, Zvecan Fortress, and Gazimestan. They also keep all of the major Serbian enclaves in Kosmet. The Albanians keep all of the major cities and all of the major industrial centers and natural resources. Serbia doesnt need their natural resources all they want is the Sebrian enclaves and the BIG FOUR (Pec Patriarchate,Decani Monastery, Gracanica Monastery, and Gazimestan) Thats it! Its only fair! Albanians keep all of their peopel and natural resources! Serbs keep their people and their most important cultural sites!

"The only traitors there were his ancestors who converted to Islam from Orthodox."

Orthodox Serbs were pagans before they converted to Christianity.

What makes Islamic converts "traitors" and not converts to Christianity?

"The end result: Britain and China agreed that Chinese people belong together with Chinese people."


huh?

Britain withdrew from HK because their 100 years lease expired.