First round of Belgrade-Priština talks ends

It must be quite the experience for our Serbian diplomats to sit across the table from bouncers, pizza parlour managers, and organ snatchers - and attempt to have serious dialogue.
Whatever comes out of this, I look forward to German euros paying for this fake state to remain on life support for the time being, while we Serbs wait for our moment.
Cheers!!

on one side you say you don't recognize Kosova, and on the other side, you are sitting at the same table with people that you don't recognize. Try to figure this out!!!
(Agim Kelmendi, 9 March 2011 13:23)
--
It is easy to figure out. More than autonomy, less than independence. Now if that isn't the case and "Kosova" is independent then why the need to discuss matters with representatives from Serbia?

Publicist Veton Surroi said that "Serbia will in the end gain (EU) candidate status from this process, while it is unclear what Kosovo will get".

Simple: Kosovo will get continued support from the EU countries that recognized it. In case Pristina should further block or delay talks or negotiations, the donor money will eventually stopped or reduced, and everybody knows Kosovo heavily depends on it. Kosovo can never get an EU candidacy status as long as 5 EU member states don't recognize it. These five countries (who have ethnic minorities themselves that might feel encouraged to split-off like Kosovo Albanians did) will change their opinion only after the 'unilateral indepence' is turned in a 'mutual agreed independence'.

"on one side you say you don't recognize Kosova, and on the other side, you are sitting at the same table with people that you don't recognize. Try to figure this out!!!"
(Agim Kelmendi, 9 March 2011 13:23)

Where is the problem? It's not that someone is not recognizing the PEOPLE. They are simply not seen as representatives of an independent state of Kosovo. Which makes perfect sense if Kosovo is not recognized, doesn't it? Serbia would even recognize them as representatives of an UNMIK-Kosovo or Kosovo (UN1244), like it reflects the correct international legal status.

Nice pic. And I see that a solution for the big problem how Pristina is represented has been creatively solved, too: There are simply no name signs with state names on the table at all :)
(Analyst, 9 March 2011 10:38)

I agree, but some posters on this site were saying that the name plate on Kosova side will read; "Kosova-UNMIK".
I assume if USA tells Serbia and Kosova that ; there will bo no name plates of each country in Baltimore, than Serb would participate.
on one side you say you don't recognize Kosova, and on the other side, you are sitting at the same table with people that you don't recognize. Try to figure this out!!!

Have they agreed to anything yet? This is just for show. When the talks fail, you will see the beginning of the disappearance of this pseudo-state.

Nice pic. And I see that a solution for the big problem how Pristina is represented has been creatively solved, too: There are simply no name signs with state names on the table at all :)

The thing that keeps you stringed to these 5 countries is that they all requesting (begging) money from the EU/US/IMF/Worldbank ...

The 22 other members who have recognized Kosova have also minorities in their country and nothing functionally mishappened there.

Tung

If Kosovo is part of Serbia why is Serbia talking to Kosovo with the help of international community? Does Serbia needs international help to talk to Vojvodina?
(ivan, 9 March 2011 17:41)


Thumbs up from me, on your comment.

It is easy to figure out. More than autonomy, less than independence. Now if that isn't the case and "Kosova" is independent then why the need to discuss matters with representatives from Serbia?
(Zoran, 9 March 2011 14:54)


Because the EU requires it. And for Kosovo to follow on its EU aspiration it has to be mature and have a civilized dialoug as the time of war has passed.

''More than autonomy,less than independence'' was just a phrase from the serbian goverment to fool the serbian radicals and the nationalists. The reason was to confuse them so they can soften on their stance when it comes to Kosovo. This to avoid confrontation with Kosovo and albanians.

And now you are fooled to think that Kosovo has ''more than independence.less than autonomy'' just because it dosen't have an UN-seat and an country phonecode?? Both of them not important for Kosovo at the moment.


The real question is why Serbia asks for dialoug with an side represented as independent and wich Serbia dosent recognize ?

If Serbia is a state then Kosovo is also because the dialoug is on an equal level.

Well I'm satisfied. I've been calling for these talks for years and despite opposition they have gone ahead.

The moon hasn't fallen out of the sky, there hasn't been much posturing and there has been steady (slow) progress.

So much for the first round.

Come on serbia is about time you to give up on Kosovo because you gonna have to do it sooner or later so that's join the EU together and have no borders no more

It is easy to figure out. More than autonomy, less than independence. Now if that isn't the case and "Kosova" is independent then why the need to discuss matters with representatives from Serbia?
(Zoran, 9 March 2011 14:54)

If Kosovo is part of Serbia why is Serbia talking to Kosovo with the help of international community? Does Serbia needs international help to talk to Vojvodina?

If Serbia is a state then Kosovo is also because the dialoug is on an equal level.
(Demi, 9 March 2011 16:50)
--
Time to talk Demi and to improve the lives of people in the region. Yes these are on an equal level as negotiators representing the interests of the people in the region. It is status neutral.

You see, it really is pretty stupid that people have to change their registration plates when moving from one are within KiM to the other. It's pretty stupid that medicines get confiscated because of some missing documentation in one area but it's fine in another area. The list goes on and these negotiations will sort it out. It will end up begin a functional partition. Albanians control their areas and Serbians control ours with an agreement in place to accept each other. Simples!

Nice pic. And I see that a solution for the big problem how Pristina is represented has been creatively solved, too: There are simply no name signs with state names on the table at all :)
(Analyst, 9 March 2011 10:38)


If you look carefully at the booklet of the K.albanian delegate left of Edita Tahiri you can see the the coat of arms of Kosovo. I guess the serb delegation also got their coat of arm on their booklet but I cannot see it on this picture.

Brussels the shinning star of EU couldn't afford larger rooms. Look at the picture, is that cereal on the bowl?



Thanks,

It's kinda cute how Zoran seems to think that Serbs somehow compelled Albanians to the negotiating table.

"If Kosovo is part of Serbia why is Serbia talking to Kosovo with the help of international community? Does Serbia needs international help to talk to Vojvodina?"
(ivan, 9 March 2011 17:41)

Unlike Vojvodina, Kosovo is under temporary UNMIK adminstration (UN1244)

Well I'm satisfied. I've been calling for these talks for years and despite opposition they have gone ahead.

The moon hasn't fallen out of the sky, there hasn't been much posturing and there has been steady (slow) progress.

So much for the first round.
(bganon, 9 March 2011 18:41)

Same here bganon. We have been asking for at least three years(after K-independence) that both countries need to talk about the practical issues that concern both nations. For at least three years we have only seen the absolute refusal of Serb authorities to talk about anything else but status with legitimate K-authorities. We welcome the change that Serbia is going through these days, we welcome Serbia’s decision to put the status aside and the decision to approach Kosova as an equal partner. We also would welcome Serbia, in the near future, to open a consular office in Pristina and vice versa , so these dialogs continue without the logistic problems that exist today. This is big step towards reconciliation between both our people and a blow to nationalist and radical elements from both side of Serbia-Kosova border. I hope that in a near future, customs at the border of two countries will finally be regulated and smuggling and organized crime will be eliminated from Northern Kosova. Cars with K plates will be capable to travel to Belgrade and vice versa, those with Serbia's plate will able to enter Kosova without problem. Similarly, Serbian mobile operators will be allowed to operate in Kosova given they abide by the licensing schema that exist today in Kosova. Equivalently K-companies that are not allowed to operate in Serbia will be able to sell their goods in Serbia and the Serbian embargo will be lifted once and for all. Soon our legitimate leaders will be able to meet each other in their respective capitals and shake hands in the international events like all normal humans.

Families will finally find out what happened to their loved ones that disappeared a decade ago. Years of war and animosity will never be forgotten but will be overlooked for the sake of the future because after all there is no other alternative to the independent progress of both countries.

With this, I wish both teams, the best in their work.

Ivan - as poisonous and malicious, and wrong, as ever. I seem to recall that various internationally-led efforts have been made to encourage the Bosnian communities to talk to each other on a range of issues. Does this mean RS is independent then? Also, the Greek Cypriots have been talking to the Turkish Cypriots under UN auspices for years. No one suggests that this is recognition. There are numerous other examples of internationally sponsored talks between conflicting parties, one of which is a government and the other is not - it does not amount to recognition or inter-state negotiations. Seriously, you might want to learn a little about international relations before you spout your nonsense.

wow, who would have thought that Kosova and Serbia reps would shake hands and crack a big smile!? I would love to see the footige that I just saw on prime time news in KTV.
This is what i call ; Hiding the truth from ordinary Serbs.

This is all smoke and mirrors!

Dont kid yourself. Both sides will benifit from these talks. What these talks will do is open up the door for Serbia to not lose too much face too fast with regards to recognizing Kosova. Its innevitable. As I've said before, this is a long term plan. The goals will not be acheived overnight. Im talking years... Thats fine, because Kosova is not going anywhere.

There isnt a Serb politician that is going to recognise Kosova in the near future, but they will slowly but surely reach a level of recognizing Prishtina as the Government that they have to speak with.

If Kosova is Seerbja, then there is no need to negotiate with the government in Prishtina. Unfortunately, Serbia knows this is the only path....Is to negotiate.

ivan

There are no mediators in the Kosovo talks. Serbs are speaking directly to the EU, who is currently occupying Kosovo. The albanians who came along are there to get coffey and cookies.

Waste of time!

If Kosovo is part of Serbia why is Serbia talking to Kosovo with the help of international community? Does Serbia needs international help to talk to Vojvodina?
(ivan, 9 March 2011 17:41)
--
Kosovo is under international administration as described in UNSCR1244, Vojvodina is not.

Kosovo is not independent and neither is it fully under Serbia's control. Hmmm, let me think for a second. I would describe it as, lets see, more than autonomous less than independent. What do you think?

By attending these negotiations, Serbia has in theoretically recognised Kosovo. These negotiations are a product of Serbia's resolution to UN, which was amended striclty, disallowing Serbia to ask for status talks. As such Serbia, has decided to forfeit this issue for the sake of EU candidacy.
But, we will never join the EU if we do not solve the Kosovo issue i.e. recognise it. The EU will not want another Cyprus.

albanians tardy again-say it ain`t so-and not smart either coming unprepared for talks..but at least they were warned to stick to present..it`s like no one cares what they have to say anymore..
eurocrats must be stocking on anti bacterial wipes after shaking hands with organ snatchers..

@ TOP
"Unlike Vojvodina, Kosovo is under temporary UNMIK administration (UN1244)"

But, remember that the power of UNMIK in Kosovo is pretty much inexistent. Yes, Serbia does not recognise Kosovo, but it must recognise that there is a new reality on the ground and Kosovo thought "de-jure" might be regarded a province of Serbia, de-facto is independent.

Don't worry about the being late - it just means they've got cheap watches.

As for "Kosovo's independence must not be brought into question at any cost during the dialogue with Belgrade". No need to bring it 'into question' as the question already exists.

This is just a pragmatic conversation - it is not of any long term political significance.

The status issue will remain wide open for as long as it takes - Kosovo is currently a protectorate and will remain under that shield for the foreseeable future. It is not autonomous, and it is most certainly not independent - in fact, it is highly dependent.

ivan

There are no mediators in the Kosovo talks. Serbs are speaking directly to the EU, who is currently occupying Kosovo. The albanians who came along are there to get coffey and cookies.
(MikeC, 9 March 2011 20:09)

Thank you for portraying yet again the unchanged Serb mindset of the 90s. Looks like some things never change.

Partition is out of the question Zoran.
(Demi, 9 March 2011 23:09)
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Like I said previously Demi, there is no point arguing with you as you suffer from tunnel vision and a detachment from reality. I am talking about a functional partition, not a formal one. If you don't know the difference then it only proves my point.

Vesna - See my earlier comment in response to Ivan. The talks in no way presume that Serbia has recognised Kosovo. Please don't feel free to comment on issues you obviously know very little about.

The Truth Chicago

Serbia might recognize Kosovo but not in the next 500 years. Serbs didn't forget that Kosovo belongs to them after 500 years of turkish occupation and believe me they won't forget after 500 years of albanians occupation. However, if you want to convince yourself that Serbia will give up on its people, its church and its territory in exchange for EU membership then you will be dissapointed. If you believe there is a Serbian leader who will sign his deathwarrant by recognizing the theft of Serbian land then you are dumber then you are a fool. Serbia can manage without the EU, but Kosovo can not. Kosovo has been run by the most powerful countries in the world for over 10 years and still there is barely any progress. The fact is that without Serbias recognition the Kosovo experiment is a failure. You know I'm right because if Kosovo weren't dependant on Serbian recognition you wouldn't come here everyday with your dreams of wishful thinking.

@SJ

Your comments are ignorant of the facts.

You can sit there and spew off numbers upon numbers and still get nowhere. Its precisely "analysts" like you that assured the Serbian public that the Kosovar Albanians would never rise up and kick Serbia out of Kosova. It was "analysts" like you feeding your boss (Milosevic) bad information that war would be won by the Serbian Murder Squads in Kosova. It was "analysts" like you that were so sure that the International Courts would rule in Serbias favor.

You can take you bogus statistics and shove it. You should be worrying about how to get Kosova back instead of concerning yourself with how Kosova will survive. The Independant Country of Kosova has survived for over 10 years, and its going to survive even longer and eventually flourish down the road. The same organizations such as the IMF that are helping your broke country of Serbia are also helping Kosova. Too much effort was invested in Kosova and the world is not going to turn its back on them.

Maybe if Serbians weren't burning down American embassies then West might be more sympathetic to them or willing to listen to their propoganda. However, Im very pleased with the Serbians dislike of America. This dislike can only serve the Kosovars in the longrun.

Keep hating the USA Serberia!

it seems odd that nobody has highlighted what looks like a move by the kosova delegation to politicize this event. they decided to show up late, and they're the ones talking about politics, where as the reported direction of the serbian delgation was to deal with basic day-to-day issues. it's funny to think that the kosova delegation might have tried to stand tough against these negotiations, but were faced with strong recomendations from their bankers, the eu, to be present at these meetings.

By attending these negotiations, Serbia has in theoretically recognised Kosovo. These negotiations are a product of Serbia's resolution to UN, which was amended striclty, disallowing Serbia to ask for status talks. As such Serbia, has decided to forfeit this issue for the sake of EU candidacy.
But, we will never join the EU if we do not solve the Kosovo issue i.e. recognise it. The EU will not want another Cyprus.

I get a real kick out some albanians on here who seem to think Serbia will recognize their fake, illegal, and immoral 'state'?
LOL

The list goes on and these negotiations will sort it out. It will end up begin a functional partition. Albanians control their areas and Serbians control ours with an agreement in place to accept each other. Simples!
(Zoran, 9 March 2011 17:47)
You have outlined the whole problem and even though you may not know it you perpetuate it.
"Albanians control their areas, and Serbians contol ours"
Now if you could ever recognize this as the problem a true solution could be achieved.
Of course I guess it is progress from Serbians will control all areas!

(The Truth Chicago, 10 March 2011 18:46)
OK let’s say Serbia recognizes Kosovo tomorrow. How is an independent Kosovo going to survive? I am really interested.
Your scenario would have worked if this was the year 2000. Kosovo is only “independent” because the US wants a base there and nothing else, but the US is slipping into its own quagmire of massive debt and cannot survive for another 2 years as a superpower at this rate let alone 10 to 20 to achieve this target. US debt is now at 15.6 trillion and rising to 17 trillion in 2012. It is now estimated that by 2015 it will be 22.5 trillion.

I'm not exactly sure how these talks are going to work, do they have to consult their governments agree on an issue before it can come into affect? For example, lets say for arguments sake Serbia's representative agrees to accept trade and goods from Kosovo with Kosovo customs stamp on it; does he then have to ask the Serbian government for approval before it can become into effect? How much power do these representatives hold in the negotiations?

As far as I can see, acording to the photo, the only thing these negotiations have made clear is that Albanians want the rasberries and weetabix the Serbs have, and are prepared to trade those piklets they have. Yum.

Hi Hank.

Maybe Serbs in Chicago will be talking about Kosovo at their church picnics for the next 500 years, but not in Serbia.

Most Serbs under 35 don't care much about Kosovo.

How many times have you been to Kosovo, btw?

Zoran,

''You see, it really is pretty stupid that people have to change their registration plates when moving from one are within KiM to the other. It's pretty stupid that medicines get confiscated because of some missing documentation in one area but it's fine in another area. The list goes on and these negotiations will sort it out.''


This problems wich you mentioned occure because of Serbia not recognizing Kosovo and because of serbian aproach to interfere in Kosovos internal affíars. The problem would be solved very fast if Serbia recognizes the register plates of Kosovo and the stamp of Kosovo. Then problems would be solved. I mean all other neighbouring countrys recognize Kosovo and have close cooperation. If only Kosovo and Serbia had started cooperating then the region would be in EU very fast.The problem is, that it can only happend if Serbia recognizes Kosovo or at least not blocking it on every oppertunity it gets. Kosovo independence will not change and we both know that by now, dont we ?



''It will end up begin a functional partition. Albanians control their areas and Serbians control ours with an agreement in place to accept each other. Simples!''


You wrelly confuse me Zoran. First you say that Kosovo got some kind of autonomy and now you belive it will be partioned. Make up your mind.

And about partition the existing borders will not change. And the serb minority is not entitled to some kind of selfrule or autonomy being an small minority. They are not being repressed by state organs and they live in an democratic society where people pay taxes and have obligation towards the state. Serbia can encourge them to not isolate them self because they cannot live in Kosovo without being part of the society there.

Partition is out of the question Zoran.

Let's say the dialog is to negotiate the North. What is Serbia willing to give back then? (Other than Belgrade's approval for Pristina to continue it's independence policy)

# Let's say the dialog is to negotiate the North. What is Serbia willing to give back then? (Other than Belgrade's approval for Pristina to continue it's independence policy)
(miri, 11 March 2011 00:37)
=========================
That's the most Serbia will give.
That's what you need and I am sure you will settle for it if indeed it comes to that.
Actually I don't think Serbia will go that far.

How many times have you been to Kosovo, btw?
(Danilo, 11 March 2011 00:00)
=======================

Why do you guys always ask this question? Who cares how many times a person has gone to a region or if at all to consider that region part of their country and would not give it up?
Most Americans haven't been to Washington or NY or such but I bet they would not give it up.
Most Americans haven't been to California but what's the bet they would not approve of Mexicans taking it, and California is not important to them in the same way Kosovo is important to Serbs.

So please stop with the silly questions. Who cares? What is important is that Kosovo is important and is Serbian.

Thank you for portraying yet again the unchanged Serb mindset of the 90s. Looks like some things never change.
(Ptoleme, 10 March 2011 03:22)
======================

That's right. Kosovo being part of Serbia will not change no matter how much time passes.
What do you expect. Sit there and wait 10 or 20 years and then claim that unless Serbia hands Kosovo over, Serbs are not capable of change.

Kosovo is not independent and neither is it fully under Serbia's control. Hmmm, let me think for a second. I would describe it as, lets see, more than autonomous less than independent. What do you think?
(Zoran, 9 March 2011 20:48)

We can discuss about the “not independent” part. But as far as “Serbia’s control”, that’s been settled. Even Serbia admits that UNMIK is in charge and not Serbia. So, if you want, the only question where there may be doubts for some is whether Kosovo is under UNMIK’s control or not; but all parties agree that Serbia is not in charge.

(The Truth Chicago, 11 March 2011 18:28)
You can ignore the figures all you like but they are a fact of life, whether you like it or not. These figures actually come from your Treasury, mate. But why tell the populace anything they will only get a headache
Like most hard line Americans you would believe that George Washington was alive if it came from your media. . Here is something you can look up – the State of Rhode Island and it’s financial heath, its good reading. This is a picture of the entire US.
The so called “Kosovars” never kicked anyone out of “Kosova” – which battle did your “Kosovars” fight again?????? Have you been taking too many nightcaps? Did the Kosovars sign the Kumanovo Agreement??? No, I no think so. NATO fought your battle not your people so stop trying to revise history.
Go back to the International Court and ask “as you have decided that the declaration is not illegal please declare our secession from Serbia as legal”. The first Albanian that tries that will be assassinated by the US on the steps on The Hague and that’s guaranteed.
I am most interested to know how has “Kosova” managed to survive the last 10 years without EU aid?????? Waiting for a response please.
For the completely ignorant Albanians please pay very close attention. The IMF is now controlled by China. Yes, the IMF has been handing out loans to Serbia and that’s a fact, but you see what your delightful US media did not tell you “mushrooms” that China is the big boss because the IMF nearly went to the wall propping up the western governments. They didn’t tell you that; did they? Opps! another oversight.
Correction, the IMF went through a ceremonial BS exercise before the GFC to mark “Kosovo’s independence”. It has nothing to do with Kosovo as ALL money comes from the EU to keep the government working. What has the world invested in Kosovo again? How many industries have opened up in the last 10 years? You live in gaga land; when you cannot come up with facts its BS and its very poor BS at that.
….weren't burning down American embassies then West might be more sympathetic to them or willing to listen to their propaganda.”
Lord, spare me from this drivel. There are only two peoples that like Americans; Israelis and Albanians. No one else likes them nor tolerates them.

US debt is now at 15.6 trillion and rising to 17 trillion in 2012. It is now estimated that by 2015 it will be 22.5 trillion.
(sj, 11 March 2011 06:42)

Well, and what does that mean ?!!! I assure you that if I had, say, even 0.001% of the US debt you mention above I would be in a much worse shape than US.

I hope you get the point that saying that the debt is 16, 20 and whatever trillion does not mean anything without providing some more context; what’s the income ? what are the assets ? what is the debt being used for ? etc…

According to IMF, on average, the income for a person in the US is higher than the income for people in 176 countries (out of a total of 182). That hardly describes a country is serious troubles. Of course, all countries have problems, but relatively speaking, US is not on the top of the problems' list.

If you want to speak with more down-to-earth terms, yeah somebody in the US may only be able to afford a 20" TV or one-bedroom house instead of a 30" TV or 3 bedroom house as a result of these "financial troubles", but elsewhere people are starving...

It must be quite the experience for our Serbian diplomats to sit across the table from bouncers, pizza parlour managers, and organ snatchers - and attempt to have serious dialogue.
Whatever comes out of this, I look forward to German euros paying for this fake state to remain on life support for the time being, while we Serbs wait for our moment.
Cheers!!

Nice pic. And I see that a solution for the big problem how Pristina is represented has been creatively solved, too: There are simply no name signs with state names on the table at all :)
(Analyst, 9 March 2011 10:38)

I agree, but some posters on this site were saying that the name plate on Kosova side will read; "Kosova-UNMIK".
I assume if USA tells Serbia and Kosova that ; there will bo no name plates of each country in Baltimore, than Serb would participate.
on one side you say you don't recognize Kosova, and on the other side, you are sitting at the same table with people that you don't recognize. Try to figure this out!!!

Nice pic. And I see that a solution for the big problem how Pristina is represented has been creatively solved, too: There are simply no name signs with state names on the table at all :)
(Analyst, 9 March 2011 10:38)


If you look carefully at the booklet of the K.albanian delegate left of Edita Tahiri you can see the the coat of arms of Kosovo. I guess the serb delegation also got their coat of arm on their booklet but I cannot see it on this picture.

It is easy to figure out. More than autonomy, less than independence. Now if that isn't the case and "Kosova" is independent then why the need to discuss matters with representatives from Serbia?
(Zoran, 9 March 2011 14:54)


Because the EU requires it. And for Kosovo to follow on its EU aspiration it has to be mature and have a civilized dialoug as the time of war has passed.

''More than autonomy,less than independence'' was just a phrase from the serbian goverment to fool the serbian radicals and the nationalists. The reason was to confuse them so they can soften on their stance when it comes to Kosovo. This to avoid confrontation with Kosovo and albanians.

And now you are fooled to think that Kosovo has ''more than independence.less than autonomy'' just because it dosen't have an UN-seat and an country phonecode?? Both of them not important for Kosovo at the moment.


The real question is why Serbia asks for dialoug with an side represented as independent and wich Serbia dosent recognize ?

If Serbia is a state then Kosovo is also because the dialoug is on an equal level.

The thing that keeps you stringed to these 5 countries is that they all requesting (begging) money from the EU/US/IMF/Worldbank ...

The 22 other members who have recognized Kosova have also minorities in their country and nothing functionally mishappened there.

Tung

If Kosovo is part of Serbia why is Serbia talking to Kosovo with the help of international community? Does Serbia needs international help to talk to Vojvodina?
(ivan, 9 March 2011 17:41)


Thumbs up from me, on your comment.

on one side you say you don't recognize Kosova, and on the other side, you are sitting at the same table with people that you don't recognize. Try to figure this out!!!
(Agim Kelmendi, 9 March 2011 13:23)
--
It is easy to figure out. More than autonomy, less than independence. Now if that isn't the case and "Kosova" is independent then why the need to discuss matters with representatives from Serbia?

Publicist Veton Surroi said that "Serbia will in the end gain (EU) candidate status from this process, while it is unclear what Kosovo will get".

Simple: Kosovo will get continued support from the EU countries that recognized it. In case Pristina should further block or delay talks or negotiations, the donor money will eventually stopped or reduced, and everybody knows Kosovo heavily depends on it. Kosovo can never get an EU candidacy status as long as 5 EU member states don't recognize it. These five countries (who have ethnic minorities themselves that might feel encouraged to split-off like Kosovo Albanians did) will change their opinion only after the 'unilateral indepence' is turned in a 'mutual agreed independence'.

It is easy to figure out. More than autonomy, less than independence. Now if that isn't the case and "Kosova" is independent then why the need to discuss matters with representatives from Serbia?
(Zoran, 9 March 2011 14:54)

If Kosovo is part of Serbia why is Serbia talking to Kosovo with the help of international community? Does Serbia needs international help to talk to Vojvodina?

wow, who would have thought that Kosova and Serbia reps would shake hands and crack a big smile!? I would love to see the footige that I just saw on prime time news in KTV.
This is what i call ; Hiding the truth from ordinary Serbs.

"on one side you say you don't recognize Kosova, and on the other side, you are sitting at the same table with people that you don't recognize. Try to figure this out!!!"
(Agim Kelmendi, 9 March 2011 13:23)

Where is the problem? It's not that someone is not recognizing the PEOPLE. They are simply not seen as representatives of an independent state of Kosovo. Which makes perfect sense if Kosovo is not recognized, doesn't it? Serbia would even recognize them as representatives of an UNMIK-Kosovo or Kosovo (UN1244), like it reflects the correct international legal status.

Come on serbia is about time you to give up on Kosovo because you gonna have to do it sooner or later so that's join the EU together and have no borders no more

Brussels the shinning star of EU couldn't afford larger rooms. Look at the picture, is that cereal on the bowl?



Thanks,

ivan

There are no mediators in the Kosovo talks. Serbs are speaking directly to the EU, who is currently occupying Kosovo. The albanians who came along are there to get coffey and cookies.

Have they agreed to anything yet? This is just for show. When the talks fail, you will see the beginning of the disappearance of this pseudo-state.

If Serbia is a state then Kosovo is also because the dialoug is on an equal level.
(Demi, 9 March 2011 16:50)
--
Time to talk Demi and to improve the lives of people in the region. Yes these are on an equal level as negotiators representing the interests of the people in the region. It is status neutral.

You see, it really is pretty stupid that people have to change their registration plates when moving from one are within KiM to the other. It's pretty stupid that medicines get confiscated because of some missing documentation in one area but it's fine in another area. The list goes on and these negotiations will sort it out. It will end up begin a functional partition. Albanians control their areas and Serbians control ours with an agreement in place to accept each other. Simples!

If Kosovo is part of Serbia why is Serbia talking to Kosovo with the help of international community? Does Serbia needs international help to talk to Vojvodina?
(ivan, 9 March 2011 17:41)
--
Kosovo is under international administration as described in UNSCR1244, Vojvodina is not.

Kosovo is not independent and neither is it fully under Serbia's control. Hmmm, let me think for a second. I would describe it as, lets see, more than autonomous less than independent. What do you think?

Nice pic. And I see that a solution for the big problem how Pristina is represented has been creatively solved, too: There are simply no name signs with state names on the table at all :)

I get a real kick out some albanians on here who seem to think Serbia will recognize their fake, illegal, and immoral 'state'?
LOL

It's kinda cute how Zoran seems to think that Serbs somehow compelled Albanians to the negotiating table.

"If Kosovo is part of Serbia why is Serbia talking to Kosovo with the help of international community? Does Serbia needs international help to talk to Vojvodina?"
(ivan, 9 March 2011 17:41)

Unlike Vojvodina, Kosovo is under temporary UNMIK adminstration (UN1244)

it seems odd that nobody has highlighted what looks like a move by the kosova delegation to politicize this event. they decided to show up late, and they're the ones talking about politics, where as the reported direction of the serbian delgation was to deal with basic day-to-day issues. it's funny to think that the kosova delegation might have tried to stand tough against these negotiations, but were faced with strong recomendations from their bankers, the eu, to be present at these meetings.

albanians tardy again-say it ain`t so-and not smart either coming unprepared for talks..but at least they were warned to stick to present..it`s like no one cares what they have to say anymore..
eurocrats must be stocking on anti bacterial wipes after shaking hands with organ snatchers..

This is all smoke and mirrors!

Dont kid yourself. Both sides will benifit from these talks. What these talks will do is open up the door for Serbia to not lose too much face too fast with regards to recognizing Kosova. Its innevitable. As I've said before, this is a long term plan. The goals will not be acheived overnight. Im talking years... Thats fine, because Kosova is not going anywhere.

There isnt a Serb politician that is going to recognise Kosova in the near future, but they will slowly but surely reach a level of recognizing Prishtina as the Government that they have to speak with.

If Kosova is Seerbja, then there is no need to negotiate with the government in Prishtina. Unfortunately, Serbia knows this is the only path....Is to negotiate.

Waste of time!

Well I'm satisfied. I've been calling for these talks for years and despite opposition they have gone ahead.

The moon hasn't fallen out of the sky, there hasn't been much posturing and there has been steady (slow) progress.

So much for the first round.
(bganon, 9 March 2011 18:41)

Same here bganon. We have been asking for at least three years(after K-independence) that both countries need to talk about the practical issues that concern both nations. For at least three years we have only seen the absolute refusal of Serb authorities to talk about anything else but status with legitimate K-authorities. We welcome the change that Serbia is going through these days, we welcome Serbia’s decision to put the status aside and the decision to approach Kosova as an equal partner. We also would welcome Serbia, in the near future, to open a consular office in Pristina and vice versa , so these dialogs continue without the logistic problems that exist today. This is big step towards reconciliation between both our people and a blow to nationalist and radical elements from both side of Serbia-Kosova border. I hope that in a near future, customs at the border of two countries will finally be regulated and smuggling and organized crime will be eliminated from Northern Kosova. Cars with K plates will be capable to travel to Belgrade and vice versa, those with Serbia's plate will able to enter Kosova without problem. Similarly, Serbian mobile operators will be allowed to operate in Kosova given they abide by the licensing schema that exist today in Kosova. Equivalently K-companies that are not allowed to operate in Serbia will be able to sell their goods in Serbia and the Serbian embargo will be lifted once and for all. Soon our legitimate leaders will be able to meet each other in their respective capitals and shake hands in the international events like all normal humans.

Families will finally find out what happened to their loved ones that disappeared a decade ago. Years of war and animosity will never be forgotten but will be overlooked for the sake of the future because after all there is no other alternative to the independent progress of both countries.

With this, I wish both teams, the best in their work.

ivan

There are no mediators in the Kosovo talks. Serbs are speaking directly to the EU, who is currently occupying Kosovo. The albanians who came along are there to get coffey and cookies.
(MikeC, 9 March 2011 20:09)

Thank you for portraying yet again the unchanged Serb mindset of the 90s. Looks like some things never change.

Let's say the dialog is to negotiate the North. What is Serbia willing to give back then? (Other than Belgrade's approval for Pristina to continue it's independence policy)

The list goes on and these negotiations will sort it out. It will end up begin a functional partition. Albanians control their areas and Serbians control ours with an agreement in place to accept each other. Simples!
(Zoran, 9 March 2011 17:47)
You have outlined the whole problem and even though you may not know it you perpetuate it.
"Albanians control their areas, and Serbians contol ours"
Now if you could ever recognize this as the problem a true solution could be achieved.
Of course I guess it is progress from Serbians will control all areas!

Ivan - as poisonous and malicious, and wrong, as ever. I seem to recall that various internationally-led efforts have been made to encourage the Bosnian communities to talk to each other on a range of issues. Does this mean RS is independent then? Also, the Greek Cypriots have been talking to the Turkish Cypriots under UN auspices for years. No one suggests that this is recognition. There are numerous other examples of internationally sponsored talks between conflicting parties, one of which is a government and the other is not - it does not amount to recognition or inter-state negotiations. Seriously, you might want to learn a little about international relations before you spout your nonsense.

By attending these negotiations, Serbia has in theoretically recognised Kosovo. These negotiations are a product of Serbia's resolution to UN, which was amended striclty, disallowing Serbia to ask for status talks. As such Serbia, has decided to forfeit this issue for the sake of EU candidacy.
But, we will never join the EU if we do not solve the Kosovo issue i.e. recognise it. The EU will not want another Cyprus.

By attending these negotiations, Serbia has in theoretically recognised Kosovo. These negotiations are a product of Serbia's resolution to UN, which was amended striclty, disallowing Serbia to ask for status talks. As such Serbia, has decided to forfeit this issue for the sake of EU candidacy.
But, we will never join the EU if we do not solve the Kosovo issue i.e. recognise it. The EU will not want another Cyprus.

Don't worry about the being late - it just means they've got cheap watches.

As for "Kosovo's independence must not be brought into question at any cost during the dialogue with Belgrade". No need to bring it 'into question' as the question already exists.

This is just a pragmatic conversation - it is not of any long term political significance.

The status issue will remain wide open for as long as it takes - Kosovo is currently a protectorate and will remain under that shield for the foreseeable future. It is not autonomous, and it is most certainly not independent - in fact, it is highly dependent.

Hi Hank.

Maybe Serbs in Chicago will be talking about Kosovo at their church picnics for the next 500 years, but not in Serbia.

Most Serbs under 35 don't care much about Kosovo.

How many times have you been to Kosovo, btw?

@SJ

Your comments are ignorant of the facts.

You can sit there and spew off numbers upon numbers and still get nowhere. Its precisely "analysts" like you that assured the Serbian public that the Kosovar Albanians would never rise up and kick Serbia out of Kosova. It was "analysts" like you feeding your boss (Milosevic) bad information that war would be won by the Serbian Murder Squads in Kosova. It was "analysts" like you that were so sure that the International Courts would rule in Serbias favor.

You can take you bogus statistics and shove it. You should be worrying about how to get Kosova back instead of concerning yourself with how Kosova will survive. The Independant Country of Kosova has survived for over 10 years, and its going to survive even longer and eventually flourish down the road. The same organizations such as the IMF that are helping your broke country of Serbia are also helping Kosova. Too much effort was invested in Kosova and the world is not going to turn its back on them.

Maybe if Serbians weren't burning down American embassies then West might be more sympathetic to them or willing to listen to their propoganda. However, Im very pleased with the Serbians dislike of America. This dislike can only serve the Kosovars in the longrun.

Keep hating the USA Serberia!

(The Truth Chicago, 11 March 2011 18:28)
You can ignore the figures all you like but they are a fact of life, whether you like it or not. These figures actually come from your Treasury, mate. But why tell the populace anything they will only get a headache
Like most hard line Americans you would believe that George Washington was alive if it came from your media. . Here is something you can look up – the State of Rhode Island and it’s financial heath, its good reading. This is a picture of the entire US.
The so called “Kosovars” never kicked anyone out of “Kosova” – which battle did your “Kosovars” fight again?????? Have you been taking too many nightcaps? Did the Kosovars sign the Kumanovo Agreement??? No, I no think so. NATO fought your battle not your people so stop trying to revise history.
Go back to the International Court and ask “as you have decided that the declaration is not illegal please declare our secession from Serbia as legal”. The first Albanian that tries that will be assassinated by the US on the steps on The Hague and that’s guaranteed.
I am most interested to know how has “Kosova” managed to survive the last 10 years without EU aid?????? Waiting for a response please.
For the completely ignorant Albanians please pay very close attention. The IMF is now controlled by China. Yes, the IMF has been handing out loans to Serbia and that’s a fact, but you see what your delightful US media did not tell you “mushrooms” that China is the big boss because the IMF nearly went to the wall propping up the western governments. They didn’t tell you that; did they? Opps! another oversight.
Correction, the IMF went through a ceremonial BS exercise before the GFC to mark “Kosovo’s independence”. It has nothing to do with Kosovo as ALL money comes from the EU to keep the government working. What has the world invested in Kosovo again? How many industries have opened up in the last 10 years? You live in gaga land; when you cannot come up with facts its BS and its very poor BS at that.
….weren't burning down American embassies then West might be more sympathetic to them or willing to listen to their propaganda.”
Lord, spare me from this drivel. There are only two peoples that like Americans; Israelis and Albanians. No one else likes them nor tolerates them.

Well I'm satisfied. I've been calling for these talks for years and despite opposition they have gone ahead.

The moon hasn't fallen out of the sky, there hasn't been much posturing and there has been steady (slow) progress.

So much for the first round.

Zoran,

''You see, it really is pretty stupid that people have to change their registration plates when moving from one are within KiM to the other. It's pretty stupid that medicines get confiscated because of some missing documentation in one area but it's fine in another area. The list goes on and these negotiations will sort it out.''


This problems wich you mentioned occure because of Serbia not recognizing Kosovo and because of serbian aproach to interfere in Kosovos internal affíars. The problem would be solved very fast if Serbia recognizes the register plates of Kosovo and the stamp of Kosovo. Then problems would be solved. I mean all other neighbouring countrys recognize Kosovo and have close cooperation. If only Kosovo and Serbia had started cooperating then the region would be in EU very fast.The problem is, that it can only happend if Serbia recognizes Kosovo or at least not blocking it on every oppertunity it gets. Kosovo independence will not change and we both know that by now, dont we ?



''It will end up begin a functional partition. Albanians control their areas and Serbians control ours with an agreement in place to accept each other. Simples!''


You wrelly confuse me Zoran. First you say that Kosovo got some kind of autonomy and now you belive it will be partioned. Make up your mind.

And about partition the existing borders will not change. And the serb minority is not entitled to some kind of selfrule or autonomy being an small minority. They are not being repressed by state organs and they live in an democratic society where people pay taxes and have obligation towards the state. Serbia can encourge them to not isolate them self because they cannot live in Kosovo without being part of the society there.

Partition is out of the question Zoran.

Partition is out of the question Zoran.
(Demi, 9 March 2011 23:09)
--
Like I said previously Demi, there is no point arguing with you as you suffer from tunnel vision and a detachment from reality. I am talking about a functional partition, not a formal one. If you don't know the difference then it only proves my point.

The Truth Chicago

Serbia might recognize Kosovo but not in the next 500 years. Serbs didn't forget that Kosovo belongs to them after 500 years of turkish occupation and believe me they won't forget after 500 years of albanians occupation. However, if you want to convince yourself that Serbia will give up on its people, its church and its territory in exchange for EU membership then you will be dissapointed. If you believe there is a Serbian leader who will sign his deathwarrant by recognizing the theft of Serbian land then you are dumber then you are a fool. Serbia can manage without the EU, but Kosovo can not. Kosovo has been run by the most powerful countries in the world for over 10 years and still there is barely any progress. The fact is that without Serbias recognition the Kosovo experiment is a failure. You know I'm right because if Kosovo weren't dependant on Serbian recognition you wouldn't come here everyday with your dreams of wishful thinking.

As far as I can see, acording to the photo, the only thing these negotiations have made clear is that Albanians want the rasberries and weetabix the Serbs have, and are prepared to trade those piklets they have. Yum.

Vesna - See my earlier comment in response to Ivan. The talks in no way presume that Serbia has recognised Kosovo. Please don't feel free to comment on issues you obviously know very little about.

(The Truth Chicago, 10 March 2011 18:46)
OK let’s say Serbia recognizes Kosovo tomorrow. How is an independent Kosovo going to survive? I am really interested.
Your scenario would have worked if this was the year 2000. Kosovo is only “independent” because the US wants a base there and nothing else, but the US is slipping into its own quagmire of massive debt and cannot survive for another 2 years as a superpower at this rate let alone 10 to 20 to achieve this target. US debt is now at 15.6 trillion and rising to 17 trillion in 2012. It is now estimated that by 2015 it will be 22.5 trillion.

I'm not exactly sure how these talks are going to work, do they have to consult their governments agree on an issue before it can come into affect? For example, lets say for arguments sake Serbia's representative agrees to accept trade and goods from Kosovo with Kosovo customs stamp on it; does he then have to ask the Serbian government for approval before it can become into effect? How much power do these representatives hold in the negotiations?

@ TOP
"Unlike Vojvodina, Kosovo is under temporary UNMIK administration (UN1244)"

But, remember that the power of UNMIK in Kosovo is pretty much inexistent. Yes, Serbia does not recognise Kosovo, but it must recognise that there is a new reality on the ground and Kosovo thought "de-jure" might be regarded a province of Serbia, de-facto is independent.

US debt is now at 15.6 trillion and rising to 17 trillion in 2012. It is now estimated that by 2015 it will be 22.5 trillion.
(sj, 11 March 2011 06:42)

Well, and what does that mean ?!!! I assure you that if I had, say, even 0.001% of the US debt you mention above I would be in a much worse shape than US.

I hope you get the point that saying that the debt is 16, 20 and whatever trillion does not mean anything without providing some more context; what’s the income ? what are the assets ? what is the debt being used for ? etc…

According to IMF, on average, the income for a person in the US is higher than the income for people in 176 countries (out of a total of 182). That hardly describes a country is serious troubles. Of course, all countries have problems, but relatively speaking, US is not on the top of the problems' list.

If you want to speak with more down-to-earth terms, yeah somebody in the US may only be able to afford a 20" TV or one-bedroom house instead of a 30" TV or 3 bedroom house as a result of these "financial troubles", but elsewhere people are starving...

# Let's say the dialog is to negotiate the North. What is Serbia willing to give back then? (Other than Belgrade's approval for Pristina to continue it's independence policy)
(miri, 11 March 2011 00:37)
=========================
That's the most Serbia will give.
That's what you need and I am sure you will settle for it if indeed it comes to that.
Actually I don't think Serbia will go that far.

How many times have you been to Kosovo, btw?
(Danilo, 11 March 2011 00:00)
=======================

Why do you guys always ask this question? Who cares how many times a person has gone to a region or if at all to consider that region part of their country and would not give it up?
Most Americans haven't been to Washington or NY or such but I bet they would not give it up.
Most Americans haven't been to California but what's the bet they would not approve of Mexicans taking it, and California is not important to them in the same way Kosovo is important to Serbs.

So please stop with the silly questions. Who cares? What is important is that Kosovo is important and is Serbian.

Thank you for portraying yet again the unchanged Serb mindset of the 90s. Looks like some things never change.
(Ptoleme, 10 March 2011 03:22)
======================

That's right. Kosovo being part of Serbia will not change no matter how much time passes.
What do you expect. Sit there and wait 10 or 20 years and then claim that unless Serbia hands Kosovo over, Serbs are not capable of change.

Kosovo is not independent and neither is it fully under Serbia's control. Hmmm, let me think for a second. I would describe it as, lets see, more than autonomous less than independent. What do you think?
(Zoran, 9 March 2011 20:48)

We can discuss about the “not independent” part. But as far as “Serbia’s control”, that’s been settled. Even Serbia admits that UNMIK is in charge and not Serbia. So, if you want, the only question where there may be doubts for some is whether Kosovo is under UNMIK’s control or not; but all parties agree that Serbia is not in charge.