HRW urges Kosovo organ trade investigation

@Agim - Perhaps you wouldn't find it so hilarious if any of these people were members of your family. I would never laugh at alleged war crimes against Albanians (which some of these were) or anyone else. No sane or intelligent person would.

well, my dear k-albanian friends, ...why you are so upset I can imagine.

but, please do not come up with Geoffrey Nice, who is, well, let me put it this way, not really Britain´s most respected international lawyer.

you forgot to write who he is, and why he is not undisputed. but that´s nothing to wonder about, since you support the greater albanian project...

for those interested, Mr.Nice was internationally heavily criticized for his conduct in the "trial" against Slobodan Milosevic.

not only was he turning off the micro, like a little dictator, when Mr.Milosevic was defending himself, he also made ridiculous statements during the time he was the "judge" in this comedy, called a trial.

so, please, do not fall for counterpropaganda, especially when published in the WSJ. we know the ways their journalist are working... =)

@pss:

now that I have read that article in the WSJ, I am even more convinced that the greater albanain project is doomed to fail.

who reads it, will easily notice the not so smart attempts to interlace agitation into an article that has not much to offer, when it comes to providing information.

but, for kids like pss, that´s soul-food. it makes him sleep well. ..and that is always better than to shoot at bathing children or setting churches on fire.

Agim, you are the only joke here because seeds are being planted for UDI retractions with these calls for investigations while Thaci is scared of talks that he told the public were meant to bring 'quick recognition by Belgrade'

@pss - You cannot use an opinion piece by Dennis Macshane (one of the most Serbophobic hasbeen politicians in the UK) in the WSJ (which has recently been doing a suspicious amount of Kosovo lobbying) as a serious link.

That's all it is; an opinion piece by someone who nobody in the UK pays any heed to. Hardly a grand campaign to quash a very real investigation by Dick Marty.

Welcome HRW, the new member of Thaci's famous "anti-indpendence network".

Great to see that this 'network' is getting more and more renowned and reputable members.

Agim,

'De-nial' [sic] is not just a river in Africa.

"No sane or intelligent person would."

I agree, Kate.

Whoah, hang on a moment. Isn't Human Rights Watch one of those New York-based, CIA/HATO-sponsored propaganda machines dedicated to destroying Serbia, or ar we prepared to overlook that when they say something we agree with. Bit fickle isn't it?

Thanks for the link pss. I found the comment by John Silver very interesting and factual (just click the comment tab). I'm glad many Brits are well aware of the situation in Kosovo.

Pss states:

"Thanks, for the compliment, haven't been called a kid for many years now. You must be ancient then.
The difference is I look at the rumors of the organ harvesting from whether such an operation could be successful from what I know about the area and what medical knowledge I have. Could it have been attempted, sure, could it have been a success, not on your life."
=========================

Well it's obvious Marty and the whole world are wasting their time when it comes to an investigation. All they have to do is ask pss if it is possible or probable and they would have all the answers they need.

Sure, we are going to accept pss' expert opinion over all the others who clearly don't have a clue.

Its quite pathetic that you people can be so full of false honor when you see that you treat your own citizens like animals.
(The Truth Chicago, 8 February 2011 18:48)
======================

Nothing like diverting attention to get away from the real issue, especially when you can't defend it.

Sorry, you are not successful. We are still discussing this issue along with the rest of the world.

If even a well known anti-Serb org like HRW is urging an investigation, then the evidence must be impossible to deny

Since 1981 HRW has accused Serbia for discrimination and terror against Kosovo Albanians, and Serbs did as usual laugh at that. In the end we know what happened.
(ivan, 8 February 2011 17:57)

Yep, it turned out they were wrong and it was actually Albanians discriminating and terrorizing Serbs. If your innocent, as you claim, then you have nothing to fear from an impartial investigation, the fact that the Albanian authorities are trying to prevent such shows your guilt.

However, it is based on information by Sir Geoffrey Nice who was a deputy prosecutor at the Hague and disputes most of what Marty says. This is the relevant part.

Once the smokescreen starts to clear, you find there will be no credible evidence.
(pss, 8 February 2011 15:48)

RE: "Nice" Credibility

Your point might have been relavant, but there is one big problem. Do you know who "Sir Geoffrey Nice" is? Yes, Deputy prosecutor but also assigned to represent Milosevic against the legal right of Milosevic to appoint his own attorney. The pinnacle of British Common Law is for the ability of accused to appoint a lawyer. Eventually Milosevic appointed himself as lawyer and defendant and Nice was his "shadow defendant" which really was irrelavant in most instances but did provide some ammunition for Milosevic to further embarress the Hague Tribunal.

Of course Nice is going to oppose anything that Marty says, he is clearly on the bankroll of the US sponsored KLA mafia.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with slagging off HRW. After all, if they had remained silent on the issue, they would have even less credibility with most normal people in the balkans than they do already. Just look at how the European Commission/Parliament long ignored autocracy in north africa or the plight of gypsies in Kosovo and elsewhere. They only reacted AFTER Sarkozy's special tv show and AFTER mass uprisings. Stability is the key and comes first on Europe's periphery when it is the cheaper and easier option.

There is no contradiction.

Human rights are applied selectively.

Human rights ngo's constantly need tp keep an eye on their funding so it is in their interests to play up/overplay/exaggerate crises and put as much media time is in possible regardless of how accurate their facts actually are (just like foreign journalists who came to Yugoslavia). Better to respond first than be accused of doing nothing beforehand??? They also act as advanced guard of liberal interventionist governments who can say, "look, we're not making it up, other people are saying it too!"

Ah, 1981, kosovo albanian riots put down by kosovo albanian police! Those university students were poisioned in the 1980s, 1990s and most recently 2005 & 2006 in FYROM:

http://iwpr.net/report-news/macedonia-albanian-students-poisoning-scare

I've been personally poisioned by Serbs. They've made me drink large quantities of slivovica and rakija with civapi and ajvar. It was horrible. I barely recovered long enough to do it again, and again, and again (ad nauseam).

In 2009, HRW said it had information that "at least 400 persons were taken from Kosovo to Albania, where all traces of them disappear".

Captain Kirk did it along with Spok, and Lt. Zulu beamed all 400 from Kosova to Albania. What a joke!

@pss - You cannot use an opinion piece by Dennis Macshane (one of the most Serbophobic hasbeen politicians in the UK) in the WSJ (which has recently been doing a suspicious amount of Kosovo lobbying) as a serious link.

That's all it is; an opinion piece by someone who nobody in the UK pays any heed to. Hardly a grand campaign to quash a very real investigation by Dick Marty.
(kate, 8 February 2011 14:21)
An opinion is just that, an opinion, same as the many the Serbian posts daily here as evidence, However, it is based on information by Sir Geoffrey Nice who was a deputy prosecutor at the Hague and disputes most of what Marty says. This is the relevant part.
Also Marty is the one who highlighted Eulex as the party to investigate, once EULEX requested to see the evidence he had Marty reversed courses and decided EULEX was not the ones who should investigate--why the change in course.
How did EULEX change in a few days, other than put marty on the spot to give proof of his claims.
Once the smokescreen starts to clear, you find there will be no credible evidence.

the truth is that in chicago, if you do not declare your medical preconditions, you may either be denied medical service from you insurer or be denied the payback, and have to pay out of pocket. so, if its a doctor or an insurer that's like a doctor denying medical service what's the true difference?

Marty brought forward a story that shocked the world due to its nature. Marty puts in his report that he has evidence, so an investigation is needed.
However, in his report he states EULEX should be the party to head an investigation and since the report he has dug his heels in to prevent it.

A true investigation will bring to light the reality in this case and the fraud perpetuated on the world by Marty and reveal his motivations. The following link is just the 1st step.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704422204576129820731456088.html

I think you can expect more and more resistance from Marty for a true investigation to take place, all the time using smoke screen to appear request one.

If these crimes took place, why are ppl still talking, why dont we see any results? Its very easy for HRW and Dick Marty to claim it took place or ask for someone to investigate yet have no idea who's going to conduct the actual work.

I would say EULEX is by far the most capable of conducting such investigation due of many of their members worked for UNMIK and their expertise in the ground. Yet, as of today they can't find anything to proseceed on so I doubt any other organisation who most likley will rely on EULEX showing them the road wont find anything that the former didnt already searched for. And by all means lets be honest, if Belgrade had any real evidence, they wouldn't hesitate giving it to EULEX since they basically talk everyday.


Oh and one more thing, that Serbian war crime prosecuter Vukcevic I think his name is, stated Belgrade had given information to Marty and who in return thanked them, yet Dick Marty refuses to accept he recived any help from Belgrade, makes one wonder why he keeps saying that?

Serbian propaganda machines keep adding these numbers every day to instill fear and credibility. We all know that there were 2 independent investigation that have come to light that shun these lies.

Hey B92 I saw that you failed to report on the anti-government protests and in the serbian side it says only 55,000 came out..we all know the real number is at 70,000 - 100,000. Ever since the cooperation with state-run Tanjug you've become a piece of propaganda.




Thanks,

I think Thaci is quite happy that everyone is talking about the human trafficing and he hopes that everyone will investigate on this issue. I'm convinced he will give a full mandate even to the serbian prosecutors if they would like to investigate. Because this is probably the only thing that he has not done. As far as no one is going to investigate on drug trafficing, corruption, public procurments etc I'm sure Thaci is the happier person in the world hearing the story of Dick marty.

So the 'defence' against this move by HRW is that there were more people at the anti government protest than was claimed by B92 and that the Serbian health service is underfunded.

I mean wow. Firstly any Kos Albanian supporting Nikolic must either be completely desperate or need his head examined, really.
Secondly anybody writing from the US lecturing Serbia about its health service ought to take a look at the way the US health system works. Its a complete joke.

But back to the subject pss on the subject of Geoffrey Nice there is evidence to suggest that he was employed by British intelligence and I don't say these types of things lightly. He never seemed for a minute to give Serbs a fair hearing unlike other 'actors' at the Hague who one could develop a certain respect for. Just as you say that you don't need any theory on the organ harvesting to be true, nor do I. Do not think you are the only one. However, Serbia will (continue to) bank the political benefits so to speak. Nor can I be so completely certain as you that certain NATO countries can't be 'made' to regret allying themselves with the KLA and by proxy question whether it was a mistake to support Kos Albanian independence. When these types of questions are raised invariable cost benefit analysis are carried out. Looking at the situation in Kosovo today western policy makers would be forced to wonder if it was worth it after all.

alb jew I would say that if Thaci thinks like this he is mistaken. Don't worry, if Marty is wrong on the organ smuggling he will push even harder on the organised crime angle, as he will need to be right on something.

Pejoni you don't know why Vukicevic claims that Marty got evidence from Serbian sources? Really? I thought you were a proponent of the idea that Serbia only does things for internal political reasons, doesn't this tally with that theory?

Since 1981 HRW has accused Serbia for discrimination and terror against Kosovo Albanians, and Serbs did as usual laugh at that. In the end we know what happened.

We expect that now EULEX in particular will push forward this issue and form a department within its ranks, or request an outside investigation. And as soon as possible, on these accusations that are incredibly serious. People have been waiting for justice to be done on this issue for a long time, and I hope EULEX and others will take that very seriously," the HRW official concluded.

It says all and proves one more time, if necessary that Mr Marty has done a great job. Now, as HRW suggest, time to get an independant investigation to carry on and clear this issue once for all.
If the k-a trolls are so convinced that nothing ever happend in their angel land, then why getting so nervous all the time unless they want to prove that their just a bunch of nationalists, no need, that we already know !!

One thing that I would like to point out is that the readers of B92 agree that the organ trafficking claims are false. Just look at the B92 poll results.

Are Kosovo organ trafficking allegations true?

Yes
1622

No
1876

Don't know
159

Everyone knows that the truth is. The majority (more thn 50%) agree that the allegations are false.
(The Truth Chicago, 8 February 2011 23:25)

The only problem with that is that you can vote more then once, which is what you Kosovo Albanians have done, at one point I looked at the results, then came back an hour later and found that there were over 200 extra "no" votes and about a dozen "yes" votes. Trying to pull that card is idiotic.

If your authorities really arent guilty, then theyd have nothing to fear from an impartial investigation, the fact that they're trying to prevent such (they did the same in a previous one) shows one thing. Guilt.

At this very moment as we read about allegations of organ trafficking, Serbs are denying their own citizens medical attention. Read the article on B92 titled "Doctors accused of taking bribes". Its unfathomable that the very same people that are outraged by allegations of organ trafficking, have doctors that are forcing patients such as the grandmother in the article into paying them thousands of euros to perform neccessary life saving surgery.

Its not a shocker to the world that the very same people that supported Milosevic and the rape and murder of civilians in several countries are making a grandmother pay to live. Thats Serbian "care" for their own.

Its quite pathetic that you people can be so full of false honor when you see that you treat your own citizens like animals.

The thing is even true it can never justify what Serbia did to Kosovo nor prove that the NATO intervention was a mistake.
(pss, 8 February 2011 20:18)
--
You really don't get it pss do you? The tide has turned against ethnic Albanians and unless you negotiate a fair and real compromise, soon you'll lose everything.

We Serbians have been through this for 20 years now. We all know Thaci is a criminal and organ harvesting is likely to have occurred but to what extent? Maybe it was just a failed attempt or maybe it was bigger but it doesn't matter. The wheels have been set in motion and there's not much you can do to stop it.

Look, Serbians were accused of raping hundreds of thousands of Bosnian women, killing a hundred thousand Albanians, bombing markets in Sarajevo and the list is endless. Iraqis were accused of taking babies out of incubators, building weapons of mass destruction and so on. It all proved to be false but there was enough shock to justify the action right?

Thaci is a spent rod and his days are numbered. I just don't think he is the type to go quietly. Lets wait and see.

but, for kids like pss, that´s soul-food. it makes him sleep well. ..and that is always better than to shoot at bathing children or setting churches on fire.
(Jovan, 8 February 2011 15:02)
Thanks, for the compliment, haven't been called a kid for many years now. You must be ancient then.
The difference is I look at the rumors of the organ harvesting from whether such an operation could be successful from what I know about the area and what medical knowledge I have. Could it have been attempted, sure, could it have been a success, not on your life.
I don't need this to be true or false, you need it to be true inorder to try to make the world believe that Serbia was somehow justified in its actions.
The thing is even true it can never justify what Serbia did to Kosovo nor prove that the NATO intervention was a mistake.

One thing that I would like to point out is that the readers of B92 agree that the organ trafficking claims are false. Just look at the B92 poll results.

Are Kosovo organ trafficking allegations true?

Yes
1622

No
1876

Don't know
159

Everyone knows that the truth is. The majority (more thn 50%) agree that the allegations are false.
(The Truth Chicago, 8 February 2011 23:25)

Another PDK official? Thaci paid you to write rubbish on this website and vote NO? How many times you clicked NO?

@John

If you knew anything about the internet and computers, you would know that B92 has it setup so you can only vote once from the same IP address.

Once again, your attempts to skew the results have failed.
(The Truth Chicago, 9 February 2011 21:34)

I just tested it. Its results are just as I expected. I also noted on a few comments this morning that were 15 Likes and 0 dislikes had suddenly become 15 likes and 22 dislikes. Why Lie?

Frankly people who cares what the poll results say? I've observed that more times than not posters (mulitple posters or not) have got it wrong.

Its irrelevant what posters think really as it doesn't change whether something is true or not. I mean if most posters voted that Germany had won WW2 would that make it true?

KU the past is the past. Many Serbs hanked back to WW2 Croatia during the recent war. Some Bosnians hank back to the recent war when it comes to almost every dealing with Serbia / Croatia today.

Serbia's international efforts on Kosovo may have largely failed, but it was never going to be Serbia that would succeed in halting the Kos independence project was it? Only the same forces that gave Kosovo de facto independence did that, those same forces may not be able to reverse that decision, but they can certainly revise it.

So I am not talking about a victory for Serbia here. Serbia clearly cannot win (all of) Kosovo. Question is have recent events meant that certain states have lost their appetite to support 'reimposing control over the north'.

Stability indeed is vital but money is also key - which comes hand in hand with stability. Rather like with Iraq (I'm not suggesting civil war will break out) international forces are in place in Kosovo and there is complete policy drift, no exit date. The money for investment in Kosovo has not appeared and shows no prospect of appearing. Kos Albanians are anxious to control their own affairs and yet realistically nervous to let internationals go - what if they cut off the funds. There are many unknowns. Things do progress slowly in Kosovo (including discontent) but this are the ingredients of an explosive pudding.

Of course the timing of decleration of independence could hardly have been worse what with this deep recession, but the fact is that nobody is happy with the situation in Kosovo. That means Serbs, Albanians, Roma, Americans, Europeans, you name it.

There might be some chest thumping statements of patriotic intent from some here who say they are delighted with the situation in Kosovo, but we know different don't we? And is there any prospect of change / progress? Be honest, you tell me.

It's been a stitch up from the start. Everyone knows it. The truth will out. That is why Serbia has done well to delay recognitions, because the more people know, the less happy about an independent Kosovo they will be. NATO thought they could get away with their lies because of the Balkans, that's why they went into Iraq. But they got caught didnt they, and now it is draining all their power.

Unbelievable *shakehead*
(Top, 9 February 2011 12:59)
--
Get a grip Top. People get killed and raped in wars but there is a big difference when someone claims a 100,000 rapes or deaths when it ends up being far far less. They need to inflate figures to justify their criminal "intervention".

"Look, Serbians were accused of raping hundreds of thousands of Bosnian women, killing a hundred thousand Albanians, bombing markets in Sarajevo and the list is endless. ... It all proved to be false but there was enough shock to justify the action right?
(Zoran, 8 February 2011 22:43)

Yes, totally false! It was only some 1,000s or 10,000s? So it's no big deal in your opinion, or what?
One day, when the truth about the organ harvesting case will evenually come out, I can see the first Kosovo Albanians posting "it has been all false accusation" if only some dozens of victims were found, and not 100s or 1000s.

Unbelievable *shakehead*

"Yes, totally false! It was only some 1,000s or 10,000s? So it's no big deal in your opinion, or what?"

Scale has no importance whatsoever to the humanitarian crowd. No one said it was 'ok', and it is certainly not 'ok' to make up massive lies as an excuse to devastate other peoples countries or intervene and keep wars going far longer than they would have done other wise.

But hey, in the name of moral outrage, we all have the right to intervene for the right reasons...

Yes, totally false! It was only some 1,000s or 10,000s? So it's no big deal in your opinion, or what?
One day, when the truth about the organ harvesting case will evenually come out, I can see the first Kosovo Albanians posting "it has been all false accusation" if only some dozens of victims were found, and not 100s or 1000s.

Unbelievable *shakehead*
(Top, 9 February 2011 12:59)
===========================

Nobody is saying that killings did not occur or crimes did not occur but not at the scale portrayed by the west. All we want is the truth to come out. Is that too much to ask? It seems that to you it is.
The reason the truth is so important is that Serbs cannot then be accused of genocide. You inflate those numbers and you are on your way to being able to claim genocide.
No death is acceptable but during a war that is what happens and people cannot be surprised by it. At least let's all tell it how it was and deal with the truth instead of Serbs being forced to defend themselves against lies.
Why are you trying to belittle that?

One thing that I would like to point out is that the readers of B92 agree that the organ trafficking claims are false. Just look at the B92 poll results.

Are Kosovo organ trafficking allegations true?

Yes
1622

No
1876

Don't know
159

Everyone knows that the truth is. The majority (more thn 50%) agree that the allegations are false.

@John

If you knew anything about the internet and computers, you would know that B92 has it setup so you can only vote once from the same IP address.

Once again, your attempts to skew the results have failed.

you´re right John.

that´s exactly what I have said before, "truth chicago" acts as if he had a clue, but actually, ... there´s nothing to it.

our dear k-albanian friends are forced to deceive and to lie, since they know very well that there is no legitimation for their criminal attempt to take away what is not theirs. not necessary to mention that it is serbian territory they want to have.

but, nothing last forever, and that is only one of several reasons, why their cheapish greater albanian project will fail miserably.

just a question of time, actually.

let´s just see what future brings!

@truth chicago: ever heard of dynamic IP-adresses? =)

If the k-a trolls are so convinced that nothing ever happend in their angel land, then why getting so nervous all the time unless they want to prove that their just a bunch of nationalists, no need, that we already know !!
(The Swiss, 9 February 2011 00:57)

The Swiss
Nobody is trolling here. Until evidence is provided to EULEX acording to resolution adopted by PACE I have right to believe the organ harvesting did not happen the same way as you have the right to believe it did.
Governments of Kosovo and Albania have sent official letters to PACE offering their full cooperation on any possible investigation.
This is what matters, official positions not fun or nervousness of individuals that are posting in B92.

Since 1981 HRW has accused Serbia for discrimination and terror against Kosovo Albanians, and Serbs did as usual laugh at that. In the end we know what happened.
(ivan)
-
Yes we do. ;)

"Nor can I be so completely certain as you that certain NATO countries can't be 'made' to regret allying themselves with the KLA and by proxy question whether it was a mistake to support Kos Albanian independence. "

Well bganon, you have to just check the recent past and the results of trying to introduce that question directly or by proxy. One cannot say that Serbia did not try. ICJ: declaration of independence vs. independence (failed). UNGA: the paragraph that contained that question failed too. It was the Serbian government itself that removed it. Maybe Serbian government should change the question.
Maybe Serbian government should understand that all the US and EU (and NATO) want is "stability" (but I think they already know it). And Thaci/non Thaci, criminals/non criminals, an independent Kosovo is a better guarantee for stability than a Kosovo within Serbia.

Im not sure if you people know this, but the document submitted by Dick is available for viewing in its entirety at B92. I know nobody read it because it has no comments.

After reading it, i've come to the conclusion that Mr. Marty ignored basic standards of evidence. Mr. Marty did not identify a single victim supposedly killed on Mr. Thaci's orders and fails to "demonstrate any link" between later scandals of a clinic in Pristina involved in kidney harvesting and Mr. Thaci's former role as political leader of the Kosovo Liberation Army in 1999.

Most troublesome, is that Mr. Marty's narrative completely depends on an anonymous witness, "K144," who Belgrade says has provided evidence of these atrocities, but who most likely does not exist. All the Hague witnesses dealing with Kosovo were given the initial "K" and a number. But the last number used was "K116" and no one involved in the Hague trial knows of a witness "K144." Further, if K144 has indeed given a statement of the kind Mr. Marty suggests before March 2006—when the Milosevic trial ended with the accused's death it would have been mentioned in the general media.

Mr. Marty also seems to rely heavily on the book that Carla del Ponte wrote. Ms. del Ponte also failed to produce any real evidence in her book which makes Dick Marty relying on it very suspicious.

The Council of Europe is not a cozy group of human rights parliamentarians. Instead, it is a deeply political body. When it comes to issues related to the former Yugoslavia, the Council is clearly divided between politicians aligned along a Belgrade-Moscow axis and those from countries that have now recognized Kosovo.

The Western media, needs to reassess their practices. By uncritically swallowing the Marty line, they have acted, unwittingly, as aides in a political campaign against Kosovo.

It is time for Belgrade to move on from its destructive opposition that is blocking regional progress.

HRW wants to investigate, Marti, Serbia, Albania, Thaci, Eu etc... want it to, EULEX is going nuts because nobody can provide the slimest evidence there is about this case, yet there's all in here ( and Serbofilia abroad ) got their mind made up "Kosova/o Albanians are monsters" .... I wonder for how long this lingo will go on until people come to it's senses?! bring evidence then we're happy to accept the outcome and put their behinds where they belong, until then you and Marty got nothing but evil propaganda aimed to discredit the the K/A strugle for liberty an legitimize your own crimes.

'De-nial' [sic] is not just a river in Africa.
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 8 February 2011 15:15)

I'm sure its actually in Kosovo, between Northern Mitrovica and Southern Mitrovica...

"KU the past is the past."

agreed, only I was talking about the very recent past, less than two years or so ago. I think that is important to understand where we are now.

"Question is have recent events meant that certain states have lost their appetite to support 'reimposing control over the north'."

Ok, I agree with that question. Unfortunately, it is a shady territory, too general a question and I lack details, so sincerely, I do not know. I would try to approach it from the "stability" point of view. How unstable does all this story about organ trafficking make the north of Kosovo and the region in general? But other approaches are possible.
Also, I do not know really the position of Serbia, some times I believe that all Serbian government wants is partition, sometimes I do not. Tadic said to Warlick "Serbia will never recognize Kosovo". That was from wikileaks. It was confidential and did not mention any partition. Is this just for bargaining purposes? Or is this the real position? "All open issues" talk suggests that it is just for bargaining purposes, ask 100 to get 50, but we'll see.

Everything else you say about the problems is true. But the influence of Serbia on those problems, and therefore the solution, is not very clear to me. Even if the relations with Serbia are normalized (which I welcome, one less problem to worry about), even if Kosovo somehow joins the UN, Kosovo will have problems attracting investors. Investors see taxation, income level of people (if they are planning to sell), work cost (if they are planning to produce and sell elsewhere), level of education (if they are planning to outsource professional jobs), infrastructure (roads and energy) etc etc. Cannot see how strongly Serbia can influence in the solution of these problems, how strongly joining the UN will influence the solution to these problems. These things usually improve gradually and of course slowly because these are huge problems, especially infrastructure and corruption. How is the agreement with Serbia, for example, going to stop a corrupt official in Kosovo from stealing from public funds for example? Or give jobs to his/her family members and party militants or assign public procurement projects to his own company?
In a few words, saying: partition Kosovo, have Serbia recognize Kosovo and join the UN and then all your problems will be solved is not very convincing to Albanians and their supporters, in my opinion.

The reason the truth is so important is that Serbs cannot then be accused of genocide. You inflate those numbers and you are on your way to being able to claim genocide.
No death is acceptable but during a war that is what happens and people cannot be surprised by it. At least let's all tell it how it was and deal with the truth instead of Serbs being forced to defend themselves against lies.
Why are you trying to belittle that?
(Peggy, 9 February 2011 21:12)
And if you underinflate those numbers you can claim it is just ordinary murder, rape and torture based on ethniticity and not actual genocide. Sounds so much better, you think?

In 2009, HRW said it had information that "at least 400 persons were taken from Kosovo to Albania, where all traces of them disappear".

Captain Kirk did it along with Spok, and Lt. Zulu beamed all 400 from Kosova to Albania. What a joke!

If these crimes took place, why are ppl still talking, why dont we see any results? Its very easy for HRW and Dick Marty to claim it took place or ask for someone to investigate yet have no idea who's going to conduct the actual work.

I would say EULEX is by far the most capable of conducting such investigation due of many of their members worked for UNMIK and their expertise in the ground. Yet, as of today they can't find anything to proseceed on so I doubt any other organisation who most likley will rely on EULEX showing them the road wont find anything that the former didnt already searched for. And by all means lets be honest, if Belgrade had any real evidence, they wouldn't hesitate giving it to EULEX since they basically talk everyday.


Oh and one more thing, that Serbian war crime prosecuter Vukcevic I think his name is, stated Belgrade had given information to Marty and who in return thanked them, yet Dick Marty refuses to accept he recived any help from Belgrade, makes one wonder why he keeps saying that?

Marty brought forward a story that shocked the world due to its nature. Marty puts in his report that he has evidence, so an investigation is needed.
However, in his report he states EULEX should be the party to head an investigation and since the report he has dug his heels in to prevent it.

A true investigation will bring to light the reality in this case and the fraud perpetuated on the world by Marty and reveal his motivations. The following link is just the 1st step.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704422204576129820731456088.html

I think you can expect more and more resistance from Marty for a true investigation to take place, all the time using smoke screen to appear request one.

but, for kids like pss, that´s soul-food. it makes him sleep well. ..and that is always better than to shoot at bathing children or setting churches on fire.
(Jovan, 8 February 2011 15:02)
Thanks, for the compliment, haven't been called a kid for many years now. You must be ancient then.
The difference is I look at the rumors of the organ harvesting from whether such an operation could be successful from what I know about the area and what medical knowledge I have. Could it have been attempted, sure, could it have been a success, not on your life.
I don't need this to be true or false, you need it to be true inorder to try to make the world believe that Serbia was somehow justified in its actions.
The thing is even true it can never justify what Serbia did to Kosovo nor prove that the NATO intervention was a mistake.

At this very moment as we read about allegations of organ trafficking, Serbs are denying their own citizens medical attention. Read the article on B92 titled "Doctors accused of taking bribes". Its unfathomable that the very same people that are outraged by allegations of organ trafficking, have doctors that are forcing patients such as the grandmother in the article into paying them thousands of euros to perform neccessary life saving surgery.

Its not a shocker to the world that the very same people that supported Milosevic and the rape and murder of civilians in several countries are making a grandmother pay to live. Thats Serbian "care" for their own.

Its quite pathetic that you people can be so full of false honor when you see that you treat your own citizens like animals.

Since 1981 HRW has accused Serbia for discrimination and terror against Kosovo Albanians, and Serbs did as usual laugh at that. In the end we know what happened.

@pss - You cannot use an opinion piece by Dennis Macshane (one of the most Serbophobic hasbeen politicians in the UK) in the WSJ (which has recently been doing a suspicious amount of Kosovo lobbying) as a serious link.

That's all it is; an opinion piece by someone who nobody in the UK pays any heed to. Hardly a grand campaign to quash a very real investigation by Dick Marty.
(kate, 8 February 2011 14:21)
An opinion is just that, an opinion, same as the many the Serbian posts daily here as evidence, However, it is based on information by Sir Geoffrey Nice who was a deputy prosecutor at the Hague and disputes most of what Marty says. This is the relevant part.
Also Marty is the one who highlighted Eulex as the party to investigate, once EULEX requested to see the evidence he had Marty reversed courses and decided EULEX was not the ones who should investigate--why the change in course.
How did EULEX change in a few days, other than put marty on the spot to give proof of his claims.
Once the smokescreen starts to clear, you find there will be no credible evidence.

Serbian propaganda machines keep adding these numbers every day to instill fear and credibility. We all know that there were 2 independent investigation that have come to light that shun these lies.

Hey B92 I saw that you failed to report on the anti-government protests and in the serbian side it says only 55,000 came out..we all know the real number is at 70,000 - 100,000. Ever since the cooperation with state-run Tanjug you've become a piece of propaganda.




Thanks,

well, my dear k-albanian friends, ...why you are so upset I can imagine.

but, please do not come up with Geoffrey Nice, who is, well, let me put it this way, not really Britain´s most respected international lawyer.

you forgot to write who he is, and why he is not undisputed. but that´s nothing to wonder about, since you support the greater albanian project...

for those interested, Mr.Nice was internationally heavily criticized for his conduct in the "trial" against Slobodan Milosevic.

not only was he turning off the micro, like a little dictator, when Mr.Milosevic was defending himself, he also made ridiculous statements during the time he was the "judge" in this comedy, called a trial.

so, please, do not fall for counterpropaganda, especially when published in the WSJ. we know the ways their journalist are working... =)

Agim, you are the only joke here because seeds are being planted for UDI retractions with these calls for investigations while Thaci is scared of talks that he told the public were meant to bring 'quick recognition by Belgrade'

@Agim - Perhaps you wouldn't find it so hilarious if any of these people were members of your family. I would never laugh at alleged war crimes against Albanians (which some of these were) or anyone else. No sane or intelligent person would.

I think Thaci is quite happy that everyone is talking about the human trafficing and he hopes that everyone will investigate on this issue. I'm convinced he will give a full mandate even to the serbian prosecutors if they would like to investigate. Because this is probably the only thing that he has not done. As far as no one is going to investigate on drug trafficing, corruption, public procurments etc I'm sure Thaci is the happier person in the world hearing the story of Dick marty.

Im not sure if you people know this, but the document submitted by Dick is available for viewing in its entirety at B92. I know nobody read it because it has no comments.

After reading it, i've come to the conclusion that Mr. Marty ignored basic standards of evidence. Mr. Marty did not identify a single victim supposedly killed on Mr. Thaci's orders and fails to "demonstrate any link" between later scandals of a clinic in Pristina involved in kidney harvesting and Mr. Thaci's former role as political leader of the Kosovo Liberation Army in 1999.

Most troublesome, is that Mr. Marty's narrative completely depends on an anonymous witness, "K144," who Belgrade says has provided evidence of these atrocities, but who most likely does not exist. All the Hague witnesses dealing with Kosovo were given the initial "K" and a number. But the last number used was "K116" and no one involved in the Hague trial knows of a witness "K144." Further, if K144 has indeed given a statement of the kind Mr. Marty suggests before March 2006—when the Milosevic trial ended with the accused's death it would have been mentioned in the general media.

Mr. Marty also seems to rely heavily on the book that Carla del Ponte wrote. Ms. del Ponte also failed to produce any real evidence in her book which makes Dick Marty relying on it very suspicious.

The Council of Europe is not a cozy group of human rights parliamentarians. Instead, it is a deeply political body. When it comes to issues related to the former Yugoslavia, the Council is clearly divided between politicians aligned along a Belgrade-Moscow axis and those from countries that have now recognized Kosovo.

The Western media, needs to reassess their practices. By uncritically swallowing the Marty line, they have acted, unwittingly, as aides in a political campaign against Kosovo.

It is time for Belgrade to move on from its destructive opposition that is blocking regional progress.

HRW wants to investigate, Marti, Serbia, Albania, Thaci, Eu etc... want it to, EULEX is going nuts because nobody can provide the slimest evidence there is about this case, yet there's all in here ( and Serbofilia abroad ) got their mind made up "Kosova/o Albanians are monsters" .... I wonder for how long this lingo will go on until people come to it's senses?! bring evidence then we're happy to accept the outcome and put their behinds where they belong, until then you and Marty got nothing but evil propaganda aimed to discredit the the K/A strugle for liberty an legitimize your own crimes.

@pss - You cannot use an opinion piece by Dennis Macshane (one of the most Serbophobic hasbeen politicians in the UK) in the WSJ (which has recently been doing a suspicious amount of Kosovo lobbying) as a serious link.

That's all it is; an opinion piece by someone who nobody in the UK pays any heed to. Hardly a grand campaign to quash a very real investigation by Dick Marty.

One thing that I would like to point out is that the readers of B92 agree that the organ trafficking claims are false. Just look at the B92 poll results.

Are Kosovo organ trafficking allegations true?

Yes
1622

No
1876

Don't know
159

Everyone knows that the truth is. The majority (more thn 50%) agree that the allegations are false.

Whoah, hang on a moment. Isn't Human Rights Watch one of those New York-based, CIA/HATO-sponsored propaganda machines dedicated to destroying Serbia, or ar we prepared to overlook that when they say something we agree with. Bit fickle isn't it?

If even a well known anti-Serb org like HRW is urging an investigation, then the evidence must be impossible to deny

Since 1981 HRW has accused Serbia for discrimination and terror against Kosovo Albanians, and Serbs did as usual laugh at that. In the end we know what happened.
(ivan, 8 February 2011 17:57)

Yep, it turned out they were wrong and it was actually Albanians discriminating and terrorizing Serbs. If your innocent, as you claim, then you have nothing to fear from an impartial investigation, the fact that the Albanian authorities are trying to prevent such shows your guilt.

"Nor can I be so completely certain as you that certain NATO countries can't be 'made' to regret allying themselves with the KLA and by proxy question whether it was a mistake to support Kos Albanian independence. "

Well bganon, you have to just check the recent past and the results of trying to introduce that question directly or by proxy. One cannot say that Serbia did not try. ICJ: declaration of independence vs. independence (failed). UNGA: the paragraph that contained that question failed too. It was the Serbian government itself that removed it. Maybe Serbian government should change the question.
Maybe Serbian government should understand that all the US and EU (and NATO) want is "stability" (but I think they already know it). And Thaci/non Thaci, criminals/non criminals, an independent Kosovo is a better guarantee for stability than a Kosovo within Serbia.

Thanks for the link pss. I found the comment by John Silver very interesting and factual (just click the comment tab). I'm glad many Brits are well aware of the situation in Kosovo.

Welcome HRW, the new member of Thaci's famous "anti-indpendence network".

Great to see that this 'network' is getting more and more renowned and reputable members.

Its quite pathetic that you people can be so full of false honor when you see that you treat your own citizens like animals.
(The Truth Chicago, 8 February 2011 18:48)
======================

Nothing like diverting attention to get away from the real issue, especially when you can't defend it.

Sorry, you are not successful. We are still discussing this issue along with the rest of the world.

Agim,

'De-nial' [sic] is not just a river in Africa.

@pss:

now that I have read that article in the WSJ, I am even more convinced that the greater albanain project is doomed to fail.

who reads it, will easily notice the not so smart attempts to interlace agitation into an article that has not much to offer, when it comes to providing information.

but, for kids like pss, that´s soul-food. it makes him sleep well. ..and that is always better than to shoot at bathing children or setting churches on fire.

"Look, Serbians were accused of raping hundreds of thousands of Bosnian women, killing a hundred thousand Albanians, bombing markets in Sarajevo and the list is endless. ... It all proved to be false but there was enough shock to justify the action right?
(Zoran, 8 February 2011 22:43)

Yes, totally false! It was only some 1,000s or 10,000s? So it's no big deal in your opinion, or what?
One day, when the truth about the organ harvesting case will evenually come out, I can see the first Kosovo Albanians posting "it has been all false accusation" if only some dozens of victims were found, and not 100s or 1000s.

Unbelievable *shakehead*

"No sane or intelligent person would."

I agree, Kate.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with slagging off HRW. After all, if they had remained silent on the issue, they would have even less credibility with most normal people in the balkans than they do already. Just look at how the European Commission/Parliament long ignored autocracy in north africa or the plight of gypsies in Kosovo and elsewhere. They only reacted AFTER Sarkozy's special tv show and AFTER mass uprisings. Stability is the key and comes first on Europe's periphery when it is the cheaper and easier option.

There is no contradiction.

Human rights are applied selectively.

Human rights ngo's constantly need tp keep an eye on their funding so it is in their interests to play up/overplay/exaggerate crises and put as much media time is in possible regardless of how accurate their facts actually are (just like foreign journalists who came to Yugoslavia). Better to respond first than be accused of doing nothing beforehand??? They also act as advanced guard of liberal interventionist governments who can say, "look, we're not making it up, other people are saying it too!"

Ah, 1981, kosovo albanian riots put down by kosovo albanian police! Those university students were poisioned in the 1980s, 1990s and most recently 2005 & 2006 in FYROM:

http://iwpr.net/report-news/macedonia-albanian-students-poisoning-scare

I've been personally poisioned by Serbs. They've made me drink large quantities of slivovica and rakija with civapi and ajvar. It was horrible. I barely recovered long enough to do it again, and again, and again (ad nauseam).

@John

If you knew anything about the internet and computers, you would know that B92 has it setup so you can only vote once from the same IP address.

Once again, your attempts to skew the results have failed.

Pss states:

"Thanks, for the compliment, haven't been called a kid for many years now. You must be ancient then.
The difference is I look at the rumors of the organ harvesting from whether such an operation could be successful from what I know about the area and what medical knowledge I have. Could it have been attempted, sure, could it have been a success, not on your life."
=========================

Well it's obvious Marty and the whole world are wasting their time when it comes to an investigation. All they have to do is ask pss if it is possible or probable and they would have all the answers they need.

Sure, we are going to accept pss' expert opinion over all the others who clearly don't have a clue.

The thing is even true it can never justify what Serbia did to Kosovo nor prove that the NATO intervention was a mistake.
(pss, 8 February 2011 20:18)
--
You really don't get it pss do you? The tide has turned against ethnic Albanians and unless you negotiate a fair and real compromise, soon you'll lose everything.

We Serbians have been through this for 20 years now. We all know Thaci is a criminal and organ harvesting is likely to have occurred but to what extent? Maybe it was just a failed attempt or maybe it was bigger but it doesn't matter. The wheels have been set in motion and there's not much you can do to stop it.

Look, Serbians were accused of raping hundreds of thousands of Bosnian women, killing a hundred thousand Albanians, bombing markets in Sarajevo and the list is endless. Iraqis were accused of taking babies out of incubators, building weapons of mass destruction and so on. It all proved to be false but there was enough shock to justify the action right?

Thaci is a spent rod and his days are numbered. I just don't think he is the type to go quietly. Lets wait and see.

the truth is that in chicago, if you do not declare your medical preconditions, you may either be denied medical service from you insurer or be denied the payback, and have to pay out of pocket. so, if its a doctor or an insurer that's like a doctor denying medical service what's the true difference?

If the k-a trolls are so convinced that nothing ever happend in their angel land, then why getting so nervous all the time unless they want to prove that their just a bunch of nationalists, no need, that we already know !!
(The Swiss, 9 February 2011 00:57)

The Swiss
Nobody is trolling here. Until evidence is provided to EULEX acording to resolution adopted by PACE I have right to believe the organ harvesting did not happen the same way as you have the right to believe it did.
Governments of Kosovo and Albania have sent official letters to PACE offering their full cooperation on any possible investigation.
This is what matters, official positions not fun or nervousness of individuals that are posting in B92.

"KU the past is the past."

agreed, only I was talking about the very recent past, less than two years or so ago. I think that is important to understand where we are now.

"Question is have recent events meant that certain states have lost their appetite to support 'reimposing control over the north'."

Ok, I agree with that question. Unfortunately, it is a shady territory, too general a question and I lack details, so sincerely, I do not know. I would try to approach it from the "stability" point of view. How unstable does all this story about organ trafficking make the north of Kosovo and the region in general? But other approaches are possible.
Also, I do not know really the position of Serbia, some times I believe that all Serbian government wants is partition, sometimes I do not. Tadic said to Warlick "Serbia will never recognize Kosovo". That was from wikileaks. It was confidential and did not mention any partition. Is this just for bargaining purposes? Or is this the real position? "All open issues" talk suggests that it is just for bargaining purposes, ask 100 to get 50, but we'll see.

Everything else you say about the problems is true. But the influence of Serbia on those problems, and therefore the solution, is not very clear to me. Even if the relations with Serbia are normalized (which I welcome, one less problem to worry about), even if Kosovo somehow joins the UN, Kosovo will have problems attracting investors. Investors see taxation, income level of people (if they are planning to sell), work cost (if they are planning to produce and sell elsewhere), level of education (if they are planning to outsource professional jobs), infrastructure (roads and energy) etc etc. Cannot see how strongly Serbia can influence in the solution of these problems, how strongly joining the UN will influence the solution to these problems. These things usually improve gradually and of course slowly because these are huge problems, especially infrastructure and corruption. How is the agreement with Serbia, for example, going to stop a corrupt official in Kosovo from stealing from public funds for example? Or give jobs to his/her family members and party militants or assign public procurement projects to his own company?
In a few words, saying: partition Kosovo, have Serbia recognize Kosovo and join the UN and then all your problems will be solved is not very convincing to Albanians and their supporters, in my opinion.

One thing that I would like to point out is that the readers of B92 agree that the organ trafficking claims are false. Just look at the B92 poll results.

Are Kosovo organ trafficking allegations true?

Yes
1622

No
1876

Don't know
159

Everyone knows that the truth is. The majority (more thn 50%) agree that the allegations are false.
(The Truth Chicago, 8 February 2011 23:25)

The only problem with that is that you can vote more then once, which is what you Kosovo Albanians have done, at one point I looked at the results, then came back an hour later and found that there were over 200 extra "no" votes and about a dozen "yes" votes. Trying to pull that card is idiotic.

If your authorities really arent guilty, then theyd have nothing to fear from an impartial investigation, the fact that they're trying to prevent such (they did the same in a previous one) shows one thing. Guilt.

One thing that I would like to point out is that the readers of B92 agree that the organ trafficking claims are false. Just look at the B92 poll results.

Are Kosovo organ trafficking allegations true?

Yes
1622

No
1876

Don't know
159

Everyone knows that the truth is. The majority (more thn 50%) agree that the allegations are false.
(The Truth Chicago, 8 February 2011 23:25)

Another PDK official? Thaci paid you to write rubbish on this website and vote NO? How many times you clicked NO?

However, it is based on information by Sir Geoffrey Nice who was a deputy prosecutor at the Hague and disputes most of what Marty says. This is the relevant part.

Once the smokescreen starts to clear, you find there will be no credible evidence.
(pss, 8 February 2011 15:48)

RE: "Nice" Credibility

Your point might have been relavant, but there is one big problem. Do you know who "Sir Geoffrey Nice" is? Yes, Deputy prosecutor but also assigned to represent Milosevic against the legal right of Milosevic to appoint his own attorney. The pinnacle of British Common Law is for the ability of accused to appoint a lawyer. Eventually Milosevic appointed himself as lawyer and defendant and Nice was his "shadow defendant" which really was irrelavant in most instances but did provide some ammunition for Milosevic to further embarress the Hague Tribunal.

Of course Nice is going to oppose anything that Marty says, he is clearly on the bankroll of the US sponsored KLA mafia.

Yes, totally false! It was only some 1,000s or 10,000s? So it's no big deal in your opinion, or what?
One day, when the truth about the organ harvesting case will evenually come out, I can see the first Kosovo Albanians posting "it has been all false accusation" if only some dozens of victims were found, and not 100s or 1000s.

Unbelievable *shakehead*
(Top, 9 February 2011 12:59)
===========================

Nobody is saying that killings did not occur or crimes did not occur but not at the scale portrayed by the west. All we want is the truth to come out. Is that too much to ask? It seems that to you it is.
The reason the truth is so important is that Serbs cannot then be accused of genocide. You inflate those numbers and you are on your way to being able to claim genocide.
No death is acceptable but during a war that is what happens and people cannot be surprised by it. At least let's all tell it how it was and deal with the truth instead of Serbs being forced to defend themselves against lies.
Why are you trying to belittle that?

So the 'defence' against this move by HRW is that there were more people at the anti government protest than was claimed by B92 and that the Serbian health service is underfunded.

I mean wow. Firstly any Kos Albanian supporting Nikolic must either be completely desperate or need his head examined, really.
Secondly anybody writing from the US lecturing Serbia about its health service ought to take a look at the way the US health system works. Its a complete joke.

But back to the subject pss on the subject of Geoffrey Nice there is evidence to suggest that he was employed by British intelligence and I don't say these types of things lightly. He never seemed for a minute to give Serbs a fair hearing unlike other 'actors' at the Hague who one could develop a certain respect for. Just as you say that you don't need any theory on the organ harvesting to be true, nor do I. Do not think you are the only one. However, Serbia will (continue to) bank the political benefits so to speak. Nor can I be so completely certain as you that certain NATO countries can't be 'made' to regret allying themselves with the KLA and by proxy question whether it was a mistake to support Kos Albanian independence. When these types of questions are raised invariable cost benefit analysis are carried out. Looking at the situation in Kosovo today western policy makers would be forced to wonder if it was worth it after all.

alb jew I would say that if Thaci thinks like this he is mistaken. Don't worry, if Marty is wrong on the organ smuggling he will push even harder on the organised crime angle, as he will need to be right on something.

Pejoni you don't know why Vukicevic claims that Marty got evidence from Serbian sources? Really? I thought you were a proponent of the idea that Serbia only does things for internal political reasons, doesn't this tally with that theory?

We expect that now EULEX in particular will push forward this issue and form a department within its ranks, or request an outside investigation. And as soon as possible, on these accusations that are incredibly serious. People have been waiting for justice to be done on this issue for a long time, and I hope EULEX and others will take that very seriously," the HRW official concluded.

It says all and proves one more time, if necessary that Mr Marty has done a great job. Now, as HRW suggest, time to get an independant investigation to carry on and clear this issue once for all.
If the k-a trolls are so convinced that nothing ever happend in their angel land, then why getting so nervous all the time unless they want to prove that their just a bunch of nationalists, no need, that we already know !!

"Yes, totally false! It was only some 1,000s or 10,000s? So it's no big deal in your opinion, or what?"

Scale has no importance whatsoever to the humanitarian crowd. No one said it was 'ok', and it is certainly not 'ok' to make up massive lies as an excuse to devastate other peoples countries or intervene and keep wars going far longer than they would have done other wise.

But hey, in the name of moral outrage, we all have the right to intervene for the right reasons...

Since 1981 HRW has accused Serbia for discrimination and terror against Kosovo Albanians, and Serbs did as usual laugh at that. In the end we know what happened.
(ivan)
-
Yes we do. ;)

Frankly people who cares what the poll results say? I've observed that more times than not posters (mulitple posters or not) have got it wrong.

Its irrelevant what posters think really as it doesn't change whether something is true or not. I mean if most posters voted that Germany had won WW2 would that make it true?

KU the past is the past. Many Serbs hanked back to WW2 Croatia during the recent war. Some Bosnians hank back to the recent war when it comes to almost every dealing with Serbia / Croatia today.

Serbia's international efforts on Kosovo may have largely failed, but it was never going to be Serbia that would succeed in halting the Kos independence project was it? Only the same forces that gave Kosovo de facto independence did that, those same forces may not be able to reverse that decision, but they can certainly revise it.

So I am not talking about a victory for Serbia here. Serbia clearly cannot win (all of) Kosovo. Question is have recent events meant that certain states have lost their appetite to support 'reimposing control over the north'.

Stability indeed is vital but money is also key - which comes hand in hand with stability. Rather like with Iraq (I'm not suggesting civil war will break out) international forces are in place in Kosovo and there is complete policy drift, no exit date. The money for investment in Kosovo has not appeared and shows no prospect of appearing. Kos Albanians are anxious to control their own affairs and yet realistically nervous to let internationals go - what if they cut off the funds. There are many unknowns. Things do progress slowly in Kosovo (including discontent) but this are the ingredients of an explosive pudding.

Of course the timing of decleration of independence could hardly have been worse what with this deep recession, but the fact is that nobody is happy with the situation in Kosovo. That means Serbs, Albanians, Roma, Americans, Europeans, you name it.

There might be some chest thumping statements of patriotic intent from some here who say they are delighted with the situation in Kosovo, but we know different don't we? And is there any prospect of change / progress? Be honest, you tell me.

Unbelievable *shakehead*
(Top, 9 February 2011 12:59)
--
Get a grip Top. People get killed and raped in wars but there is a big difference when someone claims a 100,000 rapes or deaths when it ends up being far far less. They need to inflate figures to justify their criminal "intervention".

@John

If you knew anything about the internet and computers, you would know that B92 has it setup so you can only vote once from the same IP address.

Once again, your attempts to skew the results have failed.
(The Truth Chicago, 9 February 2011 21:34)

I just tested it. Its results are just as I expected. I also noted on a few comments this morning that were 15 Likes and 0 dislikes had suddenly become 15 likes and 22 dislikes. Why Lie?

you´re right John.

that´s exactly what I have said before, "truth chicago" acts as if he had a clue, but actually, ... there´s nothing to it.

our dear k-albanian friends are forced to deceive and to lie, since they know very well that there is no legitimation for their criminal attempt to take away what is not theirs. not necessary to mention that it is serbian territory they want to have.

but, nothing last forever, and that is only one of several reasons, why their cheapish greater albanian project will fail miserably.

just a question of time, actually.

let´s just see what future brings!

@truth chicago: ever heard of dynamic IP-adresses? =)

It's been a stitch up from the start. Everyone knows it. The truth will out. That is why Serbia has done well to delay recognitions, because the more people know, the less happy about an independent Kosovo they will be. NATO thought they could get away with their lies because of the Balkans, that's why they went into Iraq. But they got caught didnt they, and now it is draining all their power.

'De-nial' [sic] is not just a river in Africa.
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 8 February 2011 15:15)

I'm sure its actually in Kosovo, between Northern Mitrovica and Southern Mitrovica...

The reason the truth is so important is that Serbs cannot then be accused of genocide. You inflate those numbers and you are on your way to being able to claim genocide.
No death is acceptable but during a war that is what happens and people cannot be surprised by it. At least let's all tell it how it was and deal with the truth instead of Serbs being forced to defend themselves against lies.
Why are you trying to belittle that?
(Peggy, 9 February 2011 21:12)
And if you underinflate those numbers you can claim it is just ordinary murder, rape and torture based on ethniticity and not actual genocide. Sounds so much better, you think?