“Talks will focus on life issues”

I recall Hash telling all the major KiM propaganda rags in interviews that the talks were a quick way for Serbia to iron out some details and recognize Pristina, so what's the hold-up? You'd think it'd be Belgrade stalling & backpeddling if that was the case, so why are the Albanians so nervous about starting talks? Oh but then came the Marty report and the potential of being blackmailed into re-integrating with Belgrade.

''Commenting on the amendment that the Greens had proposed in the European Parliament (EP), calling upon Belgrade not to address the status issue during the talks with Priština, Stefanović said that he was not worried about the amendment since it was only a recommendation and a part of a broader political document which was not binding for Serbia and did not represent any kind of political pressure, adding that the issue of Kosovo’s status would be mentioned throughout the dialogue. ''



Well the Kosovo side will respect this amendment wich sayes Kosovo status should not beought up at the dialoug. Ofcourse Serbia will mention the status issue but Kosovo will not mention it or talk about it because it is a closed issue for us and Serbia or for that matter EU cannoot force us to discuss if our independence is OK or not.


The status of Kosovo will be mentioned when Serbia recognizes the independence of Kosovo wich will happend when Serbia is ready to enter EU. Until that time comes Serbian politicans can fool it' citizens that Kosovo one day will be a part of Serbia.

(Demi, 22 January 2011 11:41)
“……amendment since it was only a recommendation and a part of a broader political document which was not binding for Serbia…..”
Correct. It’s not binding on Serbia and the issue of status will not only be mentioned but discussed in detail. So much for the Albanians swearing on the graves of their Illyrian ancestors that this will never be even mentioned.
Let me repeat what I have been saying for months and months now - status will be discussed whether the Albos like it or not. The reason is simple; the EU is paying the bills in Kosovo and its running out of money very fast – you see boys Greece, Spain, Ireland and Portugal is more important to them than the Albanians in Kosovo.
The initial talks will revolve around who likes cappuccino, latte or croissants for breakfast and which is the best place to get these things and where they will go for lunch and dinner. The more difficult issues will take place much later. You see these talks are designed to go on for at least 10 years.
“EU cannoot force us to discuss if our independence is OK or not”
The EU can force you to the negotiating table whether you like it or not. All they have to say is no more money if discussions do not take place. Where would you look to? The US, sorry they have their problems; Albania? It’s going through a rocky period right now without adding more to its dire situation. Remember this; your people are in no position to dictate terms while their hand out for charity.
….. Serbia recognizes the independence of Kosovo…. when Serbia is ready to enter EU. “
Look at the EU’s track record on vital so far:
Trade: No freeing up of trade between Serbia and the EU until it recognizes Kosovo – trade agreement signed and working but no recognition.
Visa Free travel: No visa free travel until………………… - Visa free travel and no recognition.
SAA – no signing of SAA until Serbia recognizes Kosovo – SAA signed and Serbia has not recognized Kosovo.
Look back and see how many times Albanians in Kosovo have won anything in the last 12 years. Mere existence is not living.

„Basta... kam... mit! den Hayducken
***
Hopefully you do know what hajdú are...
If not: "Among the Christians, the most brutal were the hajdú troops, mostly uprooted peasants who applied to their former fellows the cruelty that they had suffered and learned from the soldiers."
So all complaints should be directed at your fellow(?) Hungarians...

Duke, you're funny. Why should the Albanians rush? No reason. Serbia needs to show to EU that 'we're talking' and we will make it as hard as possible. Ask Dick Marty for another report and see how it works out

"You see these talks are designed to go on for at least 10 years. "
sj

Or even longer with Serbia's attitude.
The losers in the mean time would be the K-Serbs... the few who would still remain.

1st The US has never opposed talks between Belgrade and Kosovo only status talks. They have always said there must be dialogue between the 2 .
2. I love the way you quote figures and then turn around and give your "true" numbers. Where did this 37% come from? Your personal opinion poll taken from outside of Serbia? If you live and work outside of Serbia, I do not see how you could be an authority on what the sentiment of the majority population is.
You say that the Free trade, visa regime, and SAA have all come about without Serbia backing down.
Take an honest look at the rhetoric and actions of Serbia today and in 2008 and come back and say Serbia has not changed their stance. You can say it but it simply is not true and you know it even if you do not admit it.
I am not giving merits on whether it is advantageous for Serbia to enter the EU, but daily it is stated by your leaders that is the goal.
Do I agree that the EU will need to alter its present form to survive? 100%
But again membership for Serbia is a Serbian goal, not Albanian, not Kosovo, not mine.

"Anywhere, Not once That european integration was conditional on ksoovo's recognition. Everything you mentioned, that serbia "won", confirms that europe views serbia as a nation WITHOUT kosovo.

Serbia, will never, ever, gain EU membership with kosovo. end of story. "
(AdamNYC, 23 January 2011 00:32)

This should be obvious for anyone: If Serbia will enter the EU, it will be without Kosovo. In this case, it's likely that Kosovo will end up like Northern Cyprus.

(sj, 22 January 2011 14:12)

And back we go to the illyrians. For the last time Albanians are not the descendants of illyrians and heres why.

1. The Albanian language is part of a Seperate language family to that of the Illyrian Languages
2. The Illyrians share little traits with the Albanians (Interestingly, they were more similar to modern day Serbs then Albanians)
3. The Illyrians share little DNA with the Albanians
4. Records state that the Albanians arrived in Europe with the Turks from Caucasian Albania in the 11th Century, While the Illyrians had died out by the 7th Century, 300 Years before the Albanians arrived
5. The Language of Modern Albanians is closely related to that of Azerbaijan and Armenia (Caucasian Albania)
6. There are no records earlier then the 19th Century stating that Albanians are Descended from Illyrians

The Illyrian race is an idea, not dissimilar to Hitler's Aryan race which has the purpose of Glorifing Albanian history and giving them a historical claim to Kosovo, where the Albanians never held a majority until the SS Skandeberg Division turned up.

being blackmailed into re-integrating with Belgrade.
(highduke, 22 January 2011 12:41)


lmao... todays republic of serbia was formed after slobos loss of kosovo, is younger than the paper 1244 was written and has never held kosovo in its existence.

you cannot "re-integrate" kosovo with what it was never a part of.

you cannot "re-integrate" kosovo with what it was never a part of.
(AdamNYC, 23 January 2011 00:59)

Look back and see how many times Albanians in Kosovo have won anything in the last 12 years. Mere existence is not living.
(sj, 22 January 2011 14:12)
I know this comment is simply to try to outrage the Albanian readers as there is no way you could believe your statement.
You as well as everyone else knows that you are getting these things from the EU inorder to soften the pain of losing Kosovo and encourage the transition, and it is working.
Don't believe me, go back and peruse the comments of your Serbian leaders now versus 2 years ago or even 1 year ago.
But have no confusion, as to the final goal of entering the EU with Kosovo as a part of Serbia or with the power to prevent Kosovo's entrance also. That will not happen and if you cannot see it just open your eyes.

And back we go to the illyrians. For the last time Albanians are not the descendants of illyrians and heres why.

1. The Albanian language is part of a Seperate language family to that of the Illyrian Languages
2. The Illyrians share little traits with the Albanians (Interestingly, they were more similar to modern day Serbs then Albanians)
3. The Illyrians share little DNA with the Albanians
4. Records state that the Albanians arrived in Europe with the Turks from Caucasian Albania in the 11th Century, While the Illyrians had died out by the 7th Century, 300 Years before the Albanians arrived
5. The Language of Modern Albanians is closely related to that of Azerbaijan and Armenia (Caucasian Albania)
6. There are no records earlier then the 19th Century stating that Albanians are Descended from Illyrians

The Illyrian race is an idea, not dissimilar to Hitler's Aryan race which has the purpose of Glorifing Albanian history and giving them a historical claim to Kosovo, where the Albanians never held a majority until the SS Skandeberg Division turned up.
(John, 22 January 2011 22:27)

----

(John, 22 January 2011 22:27) - John, take the pamphlet back to the bookstore and ask for your money back - you got taken.
(Amer, 23 January 2011 16:03)

Amer, let's be optimistic and that glass is half-full. Or pessimistic because John won't get back more, than 66% of the money back.

Here is why:

#1: true. Illyrian language is unknown.

#2: true.

#3: true, but the so-called Ghegs (largely Albanians from mountains OVERLOOKING Kosovo) is a separate story, they are neither Illyrians, nor Slavs, they are a little pocket of a population which called the area home before Illyrians ever existed. The original language of Ghegs wasn't Indo-European.

#4: Urban legend. "Albanians" in Caucasus are largely Ossetes.
#5: Urban legend. Albanian (Squip) language has nothing to do with Albanian (Ossetian) language, except the name.

#6: true.

Food for thought: "Iveria" is one of the name Georgia is associated with. The origin of Georgians is unknown. The same name also is associated with Basques and in general, Iberian peninsula. There is quite some parallel and some SPECULATION (pure speculation!) about Georgian - Gheg - Basque common origin.

It does not mean that Ghegs or Basques would originate in Georgia, it just means that today they are "pockets" of somewhat, what was once larger. And it is clearly explained in the book ISBN 963-280-689.

According the legend shosi and shala came to high lands leaving from Kosovo valley about 3300 years ago and they are not allowed to intermarry (page 299). I do not know much but with the lack of knowledge I have to rely on book.

So Ghegs abandoned Kosovo for an extended period of time, at least 2300 years. The language they speak today is nearly the same the Tosks do speak, but by no means they have the same origin.

FYI: I can perfectly swear in Sumerian language (sh*t, d*ck, etc) without even knowing it. There are quite some legends and speculations. They do not allow Hungarians claim Iraq and eastern Turkey. The Hittite language is on the other hand one of the earliest appearance of a language resembling Slavonic, Polish / and early Russian being the closest. As much as I would love to see Turkey being divided on 33%-33%-33% basis between Russia, Serbia and Poland - I am very sure, it won't happen ever.

The Albanian-Illyrian things are precisely of the same level as Hungarian-Sumerian or Russian/Polish-Hittite dreams: perfect while playing strategy games and forging alliances on computer or commenting on Youtube.

(John, 22 January 2011 22:27) - John, take the pamphlet back to the bookstore and ask for your money back - you got taken.
Amer

If there is such a bookstore at all who sells such pamphlet. Anyway I find it so ridiculous and futil to try to come up with theories about Illyrians and Albanians. Whatever is the truth that will not change the present realities on the ground.

Duke, you're funny. Why should the Albanians rush? No reason. Serbia needs to show to EU that 'we're talking' and we will make it as hard as possible. Ask Dick Marty for another report and see how it works out
(GE, 22 January 2011 18:59)

The Serbs can bring out 20 more Marty reports and your lot will be at the table at the right time because if the EU does not see any reasonable progress in negotiations then no money and the Albanians will STARVE. The Albos talk as if they are in a strategic position, you’re not because you live from handouts and beggars can’t be choosers. You will do what youre told.
No doubt there will be attempts at sabotaging the talks, but that size 16 boot your Albos will feel up their backside will be the EU. As they say “the times are a changing”.

Trade: No freeing up of trade between Serbia and the EU until it recognizes Kosovo – trade agreement signed and working but no recognition.
Visa Free travel: No visa free travel until………………… - Visa free travel and no recognition.
SAA – no signing of SAA until Serbia recognizes Kosovo – SAA signed and Serbia has not recognized Kosovo.
Look back and see how many times Albanians in Kosovo have won anything in the last 12 years. Mere existence is not living.
(sj, 22 January 2011 14:12)


the EU never, ever, not once held freeing up trade, visa free travel, or the ssa as conditional on serbias recognition of kosovo. They all exclude kosovo.

it was NEVER implied, hinted, or assumed by anyone, Anywhere, Not once That european integration was conditional on ksoovo's recognition. Everything you mentioned, that serbia "won", confirms that europe views serbia as a nation WITHOUT kosovo.

Serbia, will never, ever, gain EU membership with kosovo. end of story.

and yes sj, unlike those issues you mention... in so far as EU membership is concerned. Serbia is not an equal partner, it is not a negotiation, Serbia sets no terms. It is an applicant that will be told what it needs. it IS serbia that has its hand in its hat in regard to EU membership.

Dialogue with serbia is something kosovo wants, and never had a problem with.

The issue at hand, that serbs are still lying to themselves about is that they think they can turn it into status talks.

Kosovo is beholden to nothing.

What this dialogue is, and serbs can rage as much as they wish. Serbias capitulation at the UN.

The joint serbia-eu resolution on dialogue with kosovo, was Serbias final response to the ICJ ruling on kosovo's independence. And acceptance of its utter failure.

No further legal challenges will be forthcoming from serbia. Suck it up.

It is not enough that serbia has embarassed itself by agreeing to sit down with the people it has pretended doesnt exist for a decade... good for a laugh.

but serbia has no intention of holding honest dialogue. it will, shoot itself in the foot by trying to turn it into talks on status.

Kosovo signed, agreed to, is obligated to nothing. Serbia did sign, agree to, and is obligated to uphold honest dialogue with kosovo.

When serbia derails talks by turning it into status talks...that kosovo will simply laugh at.

Serbia will have succeeded in nothing but angering and embarassing the rest of europe.

Here we have serb leadership now feeding its population a propaganda scenario about what is to happen, that is not only impossible, but contradicts the expectations of EVERYONE else in the world.

(pss, 22 January 2011 23:32

I am not here to outrage anyone because if you follow the dotted line and avoid the side shows put on as a distraction you will see that I am right. The EU is a lost cause and some of the most hard-line Europhiles are beginning to doubt its ability to stay in its present form or even in existence.
What benefits are there to join the EU? People are not stupid nor are they blind and they see how little progress has been made in eastern Europe since joining the EU. The only people singing the praises of the EU are Serb politicians because they are paid to do so. The last government poll stated that only 57% favored joing the EU (down from 80%) – the real figure is something like 37% and falling.
I have read many EU statements about Kosovo and that the EU demands this or that from Serbia, but over the years they have all been diluted heavily. Look at the main areas where the EU has backed down:
Free Trade; Visa Free Travel; SAA. All have been fulfilled without Serbia even saying boo. I’m sure you remember that the Albanians were all swearing on the graves of their ancestors that none of this would be achieved without Serbia recognizing Kosovo. These are ALL back downs.
I have only mentioned the major ones, but go and look back as there are many more. I have been involved with governments for now close to 4 decades and can read the signs clearly – all western governments operate the same way. SAA, trade etc are not sweeteners – this is all heavy duty stuff - it’s more like capitulation, but they don’t want it to appear to look like one.
The US vehemently opposed direct talks between Belgrade and Pristina, but the EU told the US to start paying for Kosovo or shut the hell up. Cut a long story short, the US shut up and talks are going ahead.
You have to understand that there is no more money in the vault and the few EU countries that actually working dare not ask their population to put more into the EU’s sink hole. Go and ask the Germans if they would like their retirement age to be raised from 67 to 70 and see how you fare. Greece pushed the retirement age from 65 to 67 last year.
Serbian politicians tell the EU what it wants to hear and the EU goes to bed sleeping happily, but what has Serbia surrender so far to the EU? Nothing.
There talks are going to take a long time; in fact I suspect it will take a decade.
For those that can’t see it coming I’m sorry for you, but as the west weaken, and it happening by the month not by the year, the negotiating position of Albanians weakens as well.

When it comes to the status Serbia just waisting time and for sure will not be any talks even Eu told to Serbia stay a way from that but I don't know maybe I didn't understand English or Albanian or even Serbian but seems like or even most Serbians seems like are def or can't understand ..I Don't know anymore ..!!!???

(John, 22 January 2011 22:27) - John, take the pamphlet back to the bookstore and ask for your money back - you got taken.

"That "French cathedral" topic paired with "Giorgio Basta, the saver of Hungarians" will haunt you for a while"
Ataman

I am amused to see that you are still licking your wounds. You were wrong on both counts and your pride can't accept that I pointed it out.
With the cathedrals you wanted to equal the "cathedrals" ok Jak and Vladimir with the cathedrals of France. Try to sell this idea to people in Western Europe and the USA.
As for Georgio Basta in which Hungarian history school books did you find any reference to his "mass" executions? There was never any such reference. Mass executions generally mean more than 100-200. You were unable to load up any prove of it. What you gave was only a hint to sporadic killing. But this follows a general scenario. Since you are not really Hungarian you never cared about them. Just the opposite. You try to dig out stories against Albanians. When I demask you than you react like a spoiled child. Please man up!.

Or even longer with Serbia's attitude.
The losers in the mean time would be the K-Serbs... the few who would still remain.
(Joe, 23 January 2011 00:59)

Don't worry - French have experience how to build cathedrals even on Cyprus... They will build few in Kosovo and Serbs will be protected there. :-)

That "French cathedral" topic paired with "Giorgio Basta, the saver of Hungarians" will haunt you for a while, Mr. Henel - ghost.

Amer, let's be optimistic and that glass is half-full. Or pessimistic because John won't get back more, than 66% of the money back.
(Ataman, 23 January 2011 18:21)

Dammit!!! This idiot Ataman can't calculate: 2 wrong out of 6 means 2/3 is correct. Hence: "John won't get back more, than 33% of the money back."

Apologies - seniority moment took over the brain.

Like it or not the US was vehemently opposed direct talks and that’s a stated fact.

Your problem is you think I live in Serbia and this is all Serbian propaganda. Think what you like because I know when governments lie to their people as I have been involved with them (to use US terminology at Deputy secretary/Secretary level) from 1989 to 2005. I don’t need to understand the French or German because western governments and their officials all behave the same way. Ever heard the term “retiring to spend more time with the family” it means either that the party has something on him and is forcing his resignation or he wants to bailout before he brings down the government.

I have been involved with more political opinion polls than you have had hot dinners. I have seen every method of twisting figures and preparing questions that will provide you with the answers you want. So don’t tell me what I know and what I don’t know.

In Serbia the most proEU were the young people that were finishing school/university because it gave hope for jobs. The older generation did not accept the Eu because they knew that it is BS. You only have to talk to people to find out that this position has change dramatically in the last couple of years. Europeans are not stupid unless you live in the US where they believe everything their media tells them. The US has an unemployment level of 22% plus; 40 million living off food stamps; an under employed work force of close to 50 million, but everything is great and everyone is happy.

Surely you have read the recent article that the Serbian Government’s recent poll disclosed only “57%’ favoured joining the EU, down from 80% a couple of years ago? Believe what you like but my figures are spot on as are my sources.

I don’t need to look at rhetoric but I look at the results – Vietnam two months before US left:

“We are here to stay and fight the communist aggressors against a democratically elected government in South Vietnam…………..” Fast forward and you have the US Ambassador in Saigon now Ho Chi Min City declaring a US victory and getting into a helicopter and leaving. One hour later North Vietnamese tanks were storming through the embassy grounds.

The free trade, SAA and Visa free travel are ALL big ticket items; they are not sweeteners. A sweetener is allowing Serbian transport easier movement through EU countries. A sweetener is a minor issue that is supposed to tantalise the opponent of bigger things to come if they play ball, but if you call these major items sweeteners then you living in another world.

The EU is finished. The Germans have had their taste of being the top dog in Europe and have learnt the hard way that it’s not worth it – there is no profit. However, they are now looking to the Russians.

Kosovo and its Albanian people have no say in what happens just as they had no say before. No money no food and they starve – simple as that. However, if you see another source of income that Kosovo can tap into please enlighten me because I am very interested to hear about it. The problem with you Albanians is you think you’re of great importance but like all small nations they have to sit in the corner and keep quite and take opportunities as they fall and you have had yours in 1999. What are the Albanians going to do about a reintegration? Not a blessed thing. They’ll declare you terrorist and you’re finished.

The US, well they are too busy kissing China’s President’s butt. No kissy butt not more money.

I am amused to see that you are still licking your wounds. You were wrong on both counts and your pride can't accept that I pointed it out.
(Joe, 23 January 2011 19:33)

Yes, "you" cornered everyone mostly me brilliantly. "You" can insist on being a "winner" (not sure of what) as long as you like of course.

The word "you" comes instead of you (without quotes) because all your CV "you" presented here is full of contradictions and things just not add up.

There was never any such reference. Mass executions generally mean more than 100-200.
(Joe, 23 January 2011 19:33)

Aha.

http://adatbank.transindex.ro/html/alcim_pdf8460.pdf

page 209:

"E romlást szenvedek ez helyek: Kolosvár, Déés tartomány vidéki, Gyalu, Bánffi Hunyad, Kalotabeliek, Gõrgény, Besz- tercze vidéke, és nagy sok többen; de fõképpen Torda ... és Ida, Besztercze vidékében, a hol csak egy udvaron két száz paraszt ember és nemes ember testénél több volt, kit az hajdúság levá- gott, semmi okot hozzájuk nem mondhatván, mikor Básta hiv- ségében voltanak ...”

In archaic German - sure, you can read:

Krauss György írja: „Basta... kam... mit! den Hayducken in so schneller Eil auf Nösen zu, dasz er ehender gesehen, als von ihm gehört ward. Sie überfielen also das arme Volk unversehens, dasz es ihrer Grausamkeit nicht entfliehen konnte, übeten eine solche unmenschliche Tyranney an Mann und Weib, jung und alt, mit morden, rauben, sengen und brennen, dasz es nicht zu beschreiben war, verschonten auch den jungen und unmündigen nicht, sondern rieszen sie aus ihrer Mütter Armen und von ihren Brüsten weg, schlugen sie zur Erden, zerhauten und zerstachen sie jämmerlich, letzlich spieszten sie dieselben an die Zäune, neben ihnen tödteten sie auch ihre Eltern, denn sie überfielen die Leute, ehe sie ihrer gewahr wurden, weil sie im kalten Winter schwerlich entfliehen kunten. Hierauf rückten sie im grösten Grimm vor Nösen... Während der Belagerung sind bisz auf die 13.000 Menscheu durch die Pest und durch den Hunger umkommen, denn es hatte sich vor der Belagerung viel des umliegenden Pöbels in die Stadt gezogen, dadurch den ein erschlöcklicher Hunger, und neben dem Hunger eine grausame Pestilenz entstanden, hatten also die Feind mitten in ihren Häusern und zwischen den Mauern, wer dem Schwerd entronnen war in die Stadt, den frasz der Hunger und die Pestilentz, die auszerhalb der Stadt herum schwebten, waren vor ihrem Feind nie sicher, denn die grimmige Hayducken suchten alle verborgenen Oerter auf, wurden auch durch den Rauch des Feuers, welches die armen Leute aus Furcht in die tiefste Wälder gemacht hatten, ihre erkaltete und erstarrte Glie- der zu erwärmen, ihrer leicht gewahr, denn sie eileten nur dem Rauch zu, überfielen sie unversehens, und erwürgeten beide Mann und Weib auch die kleine Kinder jämmerlich, und wer das Glück hatte, dem Schwerdt zu entrinnen, der muste durch die grimmige Kälte umkom- men

----

Now I hope you are happy. We have at least 13000 victims due secondary cause and around Beszterce on a single occasion 200 villagers.


Don't say "what a big deal of 13000 dead due plague and once in a while 200 villagers is not a big deal" because these are numbers from a single case, these where many.

"You" have really no shame, regardless, are "you" real or not. If not, Joe Henel has a sick phantasy for sure.

Since you are not really Hungarian you never cared about them. Just the opposite.
(Joe, 23 January 2011 19:33)

---

FYI: I can perfectly swear in Sumerian language (sh*t, d*ck, etc) without even knowing it. There are quite some legends and speculations.
(Ataman, 23 January 2011 18:21)

Of course - you post in the same thread where I write about Sumerian link of Hungarians.

Question: is it possible to have a negative IQ?
Joe answers: yes, with Sarah Palin we can do it! ;-)

1. The Albanian language is part of a Seperate language family to that of the Illyrian Languages
2. The Illyrians share little traits with the Albanians (Interestingly, they were more similar to modern day Serbs then Albanians)
3. The Illyrians share little DNA with the Albanians
4. Records state that the Albanians arrived in Europe with the Turks from Caucasian Albania in the 11th Century,

While the Illyrians had died out by the 7th Century, 300 Years before the Albanians arrived
5. The Language of Modern Albanians is closely related to that of Azerbaijan and Armenia (Caucasian Albania)
6. There are no records earlier then the 19th Century stating that Albanians are Descended from Illyrians


(John, 22 January 2011 22:27)

----

(John, 22 January 2011 22:27) - John, take the pamphlet back to the bookstore and ask for your money back - you

got taken.
(Amer, 23 January 2011 16:03)

Amer, let's be optimistic and that glass is half-full. Or pessimistic because John won't get back more, than 66% of the money back.

Here is why:

#1: true. Illyrian language is unknown.
---------
Not true. Saying the Illyrian language is unknown (except for some personal and place names) is not the same as saying it's not related to Albanian. (I'm hoping for more texts from the excavations of Ulpiana, where there was a previous Illyrian town. Maybe some Pliny-type made observations on the local language, and the scroll just
happened to escape destruction.)

#2: true.
Based on what?

#3: true, but the so-called Ghegs (largely Albanians from mountains OVERLOOKING Kosovo) is a separate story, they are neither Illyrians, nor Slavs, they are a little pocket of a population which called the area home before Illyrians ever existed. The original language of Ghegs wasn't Indo-European.

False: Gheg is a dialect of Albanian - Tosk and Gheg separated only sometime in the 15th century. And the Albanians have more Illyrian in them than anything else, according to DNA evidence.

#4: Urban legend. "Albanians" in Caucasus are largely Ossetes.
#5: Urban legend. Albanian (Squip) language has nothing to do with Albanian (Ossetian) language, except the name.

#6: true.
-----
Irrelevant.

Food for thought: "Iveria" is one of the name Georgia is associated with. The origin of Georgians is unknown. The
same name also is associated with Basques and in general, Iberian peninsula. There is quite some parallel and some SPECULATION (pure speculation!) about Georgian - Gheg - Basque common origin.

It does not mean that Ghegs or Basques would originate in Georgia, it just means that today they are "pockets" of somewhat, what was once larger. And it is clearly explained in the book ISBN 963-280-689.

------------------
It takes more than one book, which nobody found necessary to translate into any major language. The business about Basques and Georgian is fairly common - I don't say accepted - but Gheg? Which differs from Tosk only in some regular sound changes and vocabulary?
DNA evidence shows Albanians are typical Europeans - if any connection is found with Basques or Georgians, it'll be eagerly reported, I'm sure.
____________

According the legend shosi and shala came to high lands leaving from Kosovo valley about 3300 years ago and they are not allowed to intermarry (page 299). I do not know much but with the lack of knowledge I have to rely on book.
________________
Yes, the relationship of the Shosi and the Shala is well-known (there's also a connection with the Miredita) - but 3300 years ago? I think your dates are off by a few millenia.
________________

So Ghegs abandoned Kosovo for an extended period of time, at least 2300 years. The language they speak today is nearly the same the Tosks do speak, but by no means they have the same origin.
________________
So the "Ghegs" originally lived in Kosovo, then went "somewhere" for 2600 years, then came back and began speaking a dialect of
Albanian?



Hittite resembles Slavic etc. because it was an Indo-European language. I agree - Russisa's unlikely to have any claim to part of Anatolia on this basis. No more than England does, anyway.

--------------------
The Albanian-Illyrian things are precisely of the same level as Hungarian-Sumerian or Russian/Polish-Hittite dreams: perfect while playing strategy games and forging alliances on computer or commenting on Youtube.
------------------------------
Not really - there's the DNA evidence, after all. It may turn out that the Croatians and Montenegrins have a higher percentage of Illyrian genes than the Albanians, but it suggests that the connection exists.

So John gets at least 5/6 of his money back. (I'm willing to go easy on 6, because I do know when this was first mentioned. Although I think it's irrelevant. That the Kanun has elements going back to the Bronze Age suggests that the Albanians have been a society for a very long time, and there are only a limited number of possibilities of who they could have been. And where.

The US, well they are too busy kissing China’s President’s butt. No kissy butt not more money.
(sj, 24 January 2011 00:00)
You have convinced me. It is true you have knowledge beyond our years, in your short life time you have dined and counseled presidents, kings and dictators. You have successfully dominated the business world in half the countries on the planet. You know the secrets of the the street people while personal knowledge of all top secret meetings since WWII and most of all you have become a legend in your own mind.
Me, I am just a simple American who came to care about the everyday lives of a group of people that need help developing a quality life free of oppression.
I am humbled!

''Commenting on the amendment that the Greens had proposed in the European Parliament (EP), calling upon Belgrade not to address the status issue during the talks with Priština, Stefanović said that he was not worried about the amendment since it was only a recommendation and a part of a broader political document which was not binding for Serbia and did not represent any kind of political pressure, adding that the issue of Kosovo’s status would be mentioned throughout the dialogue. ''



Well the Kosovo side will respect this amendment wich sayes Kosovo status should not beought up at the dialoug. Ofcourse Serbia will mention the status issue but Kosovo will not mention it or talk about it because it is a closed issue for us and Serbia or for that matter EU cannoot force us to discuss if our independence is OK or not.


The status of Kosovo will be mentioned when Serbia recognizes the independence of Kosovo wich will happend when Serbia is ready to enter EU. Until that time comes Serbian politicans can fool it' citizens that Kosovo one day will be a part of Serbia.

I recall Hash telling all the major KiM propaganda rags in interviews that the talks were a quick way for Serbia to iron out some details and recognize Pristina, so what's the hold-up? You'd think it'd be Belgrade stalling & backpeddling if that was the case, so why are the Albanians so nervous about starting talks? Oh but then came the Marty report and the potential of being blackmailed into re-integrating with Belgrade.

(Demi, 22 January 2011 11:41)
“……amendment since it was only a recommendation and a part of a broader political document which was not binding for Serbia…..”
Correct. It’s not binding on Serbia and the issue of status will not only be mentioned but discussed in detail. So much for the Albanians swearing on the graves of their Illyrian ancestors that this will never be even mentioned.
Let me repeat what I have been saying for months and months now - status will be discussed whether the Albos like it or not. The reason is simple; the EU is paying the bills in Kosovo and its running out of money very fast – you see boys Greece, Spain, Ireland and Portugal is more important to them than the Albanians in Kosovo.
The initial talks will revolve around who likes cappuccino, latte or croissants for breakfast and which is the best place to get these things and where they will go for lunch and dinner. The more difficult issues will take place much later. You see these talks are designed to go on for at least 10 years.
“EU cannoot force us to discuss if our independence is OK or not”
The EU can force you to the negotiating table whether you like it or not. All they have to say is no more money if discussions do not take place. Where would you look to? The US, sorry they have their problems; Albania? It’s going through a rocky period right now without adding more to its dire situation. Remember this; your people are in no position to dictate terms while their hand out for charity.
….. Serbia recognizes the independence of Kosovo…. when Serbia is ready to enter EU. “
Look at the EU’s track record on vital so far:
Trade: No freeing up of trade between Serbia and the EU until it recognizes Kosovo – trade agreement signed and working but no recognition.
Visa Free travel: No visa free travel until………………… - Visa free travel and no recognition.
SAA – no signing of SAA until Serbia recognizes Kosovo – SAA signed and Serbia has not recognized Kosovo.
Look back and see how many times Albanians in Kosovo have won anything in the last 12 years. Mere existence is not living.

Dialogue with serbia is something kosovo wants, and never had a problem with.

The issue at hand, that serbs are still lying to themselves about is that they think they can turn it into status talks.

Kosovo is beholden to nothing.

What this dialogue is, and serbs can rage as much as they wish. Serbias capitulation at the UN.

The joint serbia-eu resolution on dialogue with kosovo, was Serbias final response to the ICJ ruling on kosovo's independence. And acceptance of its utter failure.

No further legal challenges will be forthcoming from serbia. Suck it up.

It is not enough that serbia has embarassed itself by agreeing to sit down with the people it has pretended doesnt exist for a decade... good for a laugh.

but serbia has no intention of holding honest dialogue. it will, shoot itself in the foot by trying to turn it into talks on status.

Kosovo signed, agreed to, is obligated to nothing. Serbia did sign, agree to, and is obligated to uphold honest dialogue with kosovo.

When serbia derails talks by turning it into status talks...that kosovo will simply laugh at.

Serbia will have succeeded in nothing but angering and embarassing the rest of europe.

Here we have serb leadership now feeding its population a propaganda scenario about what is to happen, that is not only impossible, but contradicts the expectations of EVERYONE else in the world.

(pss, 22 January 2011 23:32

I am not here to outrage anyone because if you follow the dotted line and avoid the side shows put on as a distraction you will see that I am right. The EU is a lost cause and some of the most hard-line Europhiles are beginning to doubt its ability to stay in its present form or even in existence.
What benefits are there to join the EU? People are not stupid nor are they blind and they see how little progress has been made in eastern Europe since joining the EU. The only people singing the praises of the EU are Serb politicians because they are paid to do so. The last government poll stated that only 57% favored joing the EU (down from 80%) – the real figure is something like 37% and falling.
I have read many EU statements about Kosovo and that the EU demands this or that from Serbia, but over the years they have all been diluted heavily. Look at the main areas where the EU has backed down:
Free Trade; Visa Free Travel; SAA. All have been fulfilled without Serbia even saying boo. I’m sure you remember that the Albanians were all swearing on the graves of their ancestors that none of this would be achieved without Serbia recognizing Kosovo. These are ALL back downs.
I have only mentioned the major ones, but go and look back as there are many more. I have been involved with governments for now close to 4 decades and can read the signs clearly – all western governments operate the same way. SAA, trade etc are not sweeteners – this is all heavy duty stuff - it’s more like capitulation, but they don’t want it to appear to look like one.
The US vehemently opposed direct talks between Belgrade and Pristina, but the EU told the US to start paying for Kosovo or shut the hell up. Cut a long story short, the US shut up and talks are going ahead.
You have to understand that there is no more money in the vault and the few EU countries that actually working dare not ask their population to put more into the EU’s sink hole. Go and ask the Germans if they would like their retirement age to be raised from 67 to 70 and see how you fare. Greece pushed the retirement age from 65 to 67 last year.
Serbian politicians tell the EU what it wants to hear and the EU goes to bed sleeping happily, but what has Serbia surrender so far to the EU? Nothing.
There talks are going to take a long time; in fact I suspect it will take a decade.
For those that can’t see it coming I’m sorry for you, but as the west weaken, and it happening by the month not by the year, the negotiating position of Albanians weakens as well.

(John, 22 January 2011 22:27) - John, take the pamphlet back to the bookstore and ask for your money back - you got taken.

There was never any such reference. Mass executions generally mean more than 100-200.
(Joe, 23 January 2011 19:33)

Aha.

http://adatbank.transindex.ro/html/alcim_pdf8460.pdf

page 209:

"E romlást szenvedek ez helyek: Kolosvár, Déés tartomány vidéki, Gyalu, Bánffi Hunyad, Kalotabeliek, Gõrgény, Besz- tercze vidéke, és nagy sok többen; de fõképpen Torda ... és Ida, Besztercze vidékében, a hol csak egy udvaron két száz paraszt ember és nemes ember testénél több volt, kit az hajdúság levá- gott, semmi okot hozzájuk nem mondhatván, mikor Básta hiv- ségében voltanak ...”

In archaic German - sure, you can read:

Krauss György írja: „Basta... kam... mit! den Hayducken in so schneller Eil auf Nösen zu, dasz er ehender gesehen, als von ihm gehört ward. Sie überfielen also das arme Volk unversehens, dasz es ihrer Grausamkeit nicht entfliehen konnte, übeten eine solche unmenschliche Tyranney an Mann und Weib, jung und alt, mit morden, rauben, sengen und brennen, dasz es nicht zu beschreiben war, verschonten auch den jungen und unmündigen nicht, sondern rieszen sie aus ihrer Mütter Armen und von ihren Brüsten weg, schlugen sie zur Erden, zerhauten und zerstachen sie jämmerlich, letzlich spieszten sie dieselben an die Zäune, neben ihnen tödteten sie auch ihre Eltern, denn sie überfielen die Leute, ehe sie ihrer gewahr wurden, weil sie im kalten Winter schwerlich entfliehen kunten. Hierauf rückten sie im grösten Grimm vor Nösen... Während der Belagerung sind bisz auf die 13.000 Menscheu durch die Pest und durch den Hunger umkommen, denn es hatte sich vor der Belagerung viel des umliegenden Pöbels in die Stadt gezogen, dadurch den ein erschlöcklicher Hunger, und neben dem Hunger eine grausame Pestilenz entstanden, hatten also die Feind mitten in ihren Häusern und zwischen den Mauern, wer dem Schwerd entronnen war in die Stadt, den frasz der Hunger und die Pestilentz, die auszerhalb der Stadt herum schwebten, waren vor ihrem Feind nie sicher, denn die grimmige Hayducken suchten alle verborgenen Oerter auf, wurden auch durch den Rauch des Feuers, welches die armen Leute aus Furcht in die tiefste Wälder gemacht hatten, ihre erkaltete und erstarrte Glie- der zu erwärmen, ihrer leicht gewahr, denn sie eileten nur dem Rauch zu, überfielen sie unversehens, und erwürgeten beide Mann und Weib auch die kleine Kinder jämmerlich, und wer das Glück hatte, dem Schwerdt zu entrinnen, der muste durch die grimmige Kälte umkom- men

----

Now I hope you are happy. We have at least 13000 victims due secondary cause and around Beszterce on a single occasion 200 villagers.


Don't say "what a big deal of 13000 dead due plague and once in a while 200 villagers is not a big deal" because these are numbers from a single case, these where many.

"You" have really no shame, regardless, are "you" real or not. If not, Joe Henel has a sick phantasy for sure.

Amer, let's be optimistic and that glass is half-full. Or pessimistic because John won't get back more, than 66% of the money back.
(Ataman, 23 January 2011 18:21)

Dammit!!! This idiot Ataman can't calculate: 2 wrong out of 6 means 2/3 is correct. Hence: "John won't get back more, than 33% of the money back."

Apologies - seniority moment took over the brain.

Duke, you're funny. Why should the Albanians rush? No reason. Serbia needs to show to EU that 'we're talking' and we will make it as hard as possible. Ask Dick Marty for another report and see how it works out

(sj, 22 January 2011 14:12)

And back we go to the illyrians. For the last time Albanians are not the descendants of illyrians and heres why.

1. The Albanian language is part of a Seperate language family to that of the Illyrian Languages
2. The Illyrians share little traits with the Albanians (Interestingly, they were more similar to modern day Serbs then Albanians)
3. The Illyrians share little DNA with the Albanians
4. Records state that the Albanians arrived in Europe with the Turks from Caucasian Albania in the 11th Century, While the Illyrians had died out by the 7th Century, 300 Years before the Albanians arrived
5. The Language of Modern Albanians is closely related to that of Azerbaijan and Armenia (Caucasian Albania)
6. There are no records earlier then the 19th Century stating that Albanians are Descended from Illyrians

The Illyrian race is an idea, not dissimilar to Hitler's Aryan race which has the purpose of Glorifing Albanian history and giving them a historical claim to Kosovo, where the Albanians never held a majority until the SS Skandeberg Division turned up.

Look back and see how many times Albanians in Kosovo have won anything in the last 12 years. Mere existence is not living.
(sj, 22 January 2011 14:12)
I know this comment is simply to try to outrage the Albanian readers as there is no way you could believe your statement.
You as well as everyone else knows that you are getting these things from the EU inorder to soften the pain of losing Kosovo and encourage the transition, and it is working.
Don't believe me, go back and peruse the comments of your Serbian leaders now versus 2 years ago or even 1 year ago.
But have no confusion, as to the final goal of entering the EU with Kosovo as a part of Serbia or with the power to prevent Kosovo's entrance also. That will not happen and if you cannot see it just open your eyes.

Duke, you're funny. Why should the Albanians rush? No reason. Serbia needs to show to EU that 'we're talking' and we will make it as hard as possible. Ask Dick Marty for another report and see how it works out
(GE, 22 January 2011 18:59)

The Serbs can bring out 20 more Marty reports and your lot will be at the table at the right time because if the EU does not see any reasonable progress in negotiations then no money and the Albanians will STARVE. The Albos talk as if they are in a strategic position, you’re not because you live from handouts and beggars can’t be choosers. You will do what youre told.
No doubt there will be attempts at sabotaging the talks, but that size 16 boot your Albos will feel up their backside will be the EU. As they say “the times are a changing”.

Trade: No freeing up of trade between Serbia and the EU until it recognizes Kosovo – trade agreement signed and working but no recognition.
Visa Free travel: No visa free travel until………………… - Visa free travel and no recognition.
SAA – no signing of SAA until Serbia recognizes Kosovo – SAA signed and Serbia has not recognized Kosovo.
Look back and see how many times Albanians in Kosovo have won anything in the last 12 years. Mere existence is not living.
(sj, 22 January 2011 14:12)


the EU never, ever, not once held freeing up trade, visa free travel, or the ssa as conditional on serbias recognition of kosovo. They all exclude kosovo.

it was NEVER implied, hinted, or assumed by anyone, Anywhere, Not once That european integration was conditional on ksoovo's recognition. Everything you mentioned, that serbia "won", confirms that europe views serbia as a nation WITHOUT kosovo.

Serbia, will never, ever, gain EU membership with kosovo. end of story.

and yes sj, unlike those issues you mention... in so far as EU membership is concerned. Serbia is not an equal partner, it is not a negotiation, Serbia sets no terms. It is an applicant that will be told what it needs. it IS serbia that has its hand in its hat in regard to EU membership.

being blackmailed into re-integrating with Belgrade.
(highduke, 22 January 2011 12:41)


lmao... todays republic of serbia was formed after slobos loss of kosovo, is younger than the paper 1244 was written and has never held kosovo in its existence.

you cannot "re-integrate" kosovo with what it was never a part of.

Since you are not really Hungarian you never cared about them. Just the opposite.
(Joe, 23 January 2011 19:33)

---

FYI: I can perfectly swear in Sumerian language (sh*t, d*ck, etc) without even knowing it. There are quite some legends and speculations.
(Ataman, 23 January 2011 18:21)

Of course - you post in the same thread where I write about Sumerian link of Hungarians.

Question: is it possible to have a negative IQ?
Joe answers: yes, with Sarah Palin we can do it! ;-)

you cannot "re-integrate" kosovo with what it was never a part of.
(AdamNYC, 23 January 2011 00:59)

"Anywhere, Not once That european integration was conditional on ksoovo's recognition. Everything you mentioned, that serbia "won", confirms that europe views serbia as a nation WITHOUT kosovo.

Serbia, will never, ever, gain EU membership with kosovo. end of story. "
(AdamNYC, 23 January 2011 00:32)

This should be obvious for anyone: If Serbia will enter the EU, it will be without Kosovo. In this case, it's likely that Kosovo will end up like Northern Cyprus.

Or even longer with Serbia's attitude.
The losers in the mean time would be the K-Serbs... the few who would still remain.
(Joe, 23 January 2011 00:59)

Don't worry - French have experience how to build cathedrals even on Cyprus... They will build few in Kosovo and Serbs will be protected there. :-)

That "French cathedral" topic paired with "Giorgio Basta, the saver of Hungarians" will haunt you for a while, Mr. Henel - ghost.

And back we go to the illyrians. For the last time Albanians are not the descendants of illyrians and heres why.

1. The Albanian language is part of a Seperate language family to that of the Illyrian Languages
2. The Illyrians share little traits with the Albanians (Interestingly, they were more similar to modern day Serbs then Albanians)
3. The Illyrians share little DNA with the Albanians
4. Records state that the Albanians arrived in Europe with the Turks from Caucasian Albania in the 11th Century, While the Illyrians had died out by the 7th Century, 300 Years before the Albanians arrived
5. The Language of Modern Albanians is closely related to that of Azerbaijan and Armenia (Caucasian Albania)
6. There are no records earlier then the 19th Century stating that Albanians are Descended from Illyrians

The Illyrian race is an idea, not dissimilar to Hitler's Aryan race which has the purpose of Glorifing Albanian history and giving them a historical claim to Kosovo, where the Albanians never held a majority until the SS Skandeberg Division turned up.
(John, 22 January 2011 22:27)

----

(John, 22 January 2011 22:27) - John, take the pamphlet back to the bookstore and ask for your money back - you got taken.
(Amer, 23 January 2011 16:03)

Amer, let's be optimistic and that glass is half-full. Or pessimistic because John won't get back more, than 66% of the money back.

Here is why:

#1: true. Illyrian language is unknown.

#2: true.

#3: true, but the so-called Ghegs (largely Albanians from mountains OVERLOOKING Kosovo) is a separate story, they are neither Illyrians, nor Slavs, they are a little pocket of a population which called the area home before Illyrians ever existed. The original language of Ghegs wasn't Indo-European.

#4: Urban legend. "Albanians" in Caucasus are largely Ossetes.
#5: Urban legend. Albanian (Squip) language has nothing to do with Albanian (Ossetian) language, except the name.

#6: true.

Food for thought: "Iveria" is one of the name Georgia is associated with. The origin of Georgians is unknown. The same name also is associated with Basques and in general, Iberian peninsula. There is quite some parallel and some SPECULATION (pure speculation!) about Georgian - Gheg - Basque common origin.

It does not mean that Ghegs or Basques would originate in Georgia, it just means that today they are "pockets" of somewhat, what was once larger. And it is clearly explained in the book ISBN 963-280-689.

According the legend shosi and shala came to high lands leaving from Kosovo valley about 3300 years ago and they are not allowed to intermarry (page 299). I do not know much but with the lack of knowledge I have to rely on book.

So Ghegs abandoned Kosovo for an extended period of time, at least 2300 years. The language they speak today is nearly the same the Tosks do speak, but by no means they have the same origin.

FYI: I can perfectly swear in Sumerian language (sh*t, d*ck, etc) without even knowing it. There are quite some legends and speculations. They do not allow Hungarians claim Iraq and eastern Turkey. The Hittite language is on the other hand one of the earliest appearance of a language resembling Slavonic, Polish / and early Russian being the closest. As much as I would love to see Turkey being divided on 33%-33%-33% basis between Russia, Serbia and Poland - I am very sure, it won't happen ever.

The Albanian-Illyrian things are precisely of the same level as Hungarian-Sumerian or Russian/Polish-Hittite dreams: perfect while playing strategy games and forging alliances on computer or commenting on Youtube.

I am amused to see that you are still licking your wounds. You were wrong on both counts and your pride can't accept that I pointed it out.
(Joe, 23 January 2011 19:33)

Yes, "you" cornered everyone mostly me brilliantly. "You" can insist on being a "winner" (not sure of what) as long as you like of course.

The word "you" comes instead of you (without quotes) because all your CV "you" presented here is full of contradictions and things just not add up.

When it comes to the status Serbia just waisting time and for sure will not be any talks even Eu told to Serbia stay a way from that but I don't know maybe I didn't understand English or Albanian or even Serbian but seems like or even most Serbians seems like are def or can't understand ..I Don't know anymore ..!!!???

"You see these talks are designed to go on for at least 10 years. "
sj

Or even longer with Serbia's attitude.
The losers in the mean time would be the K-Serbs... the few who would still remain.

1st The US has never opposed talks between Belgrade and Kosovo only status talks. They have always said there must be dialogue between the 2 .
2. I love the way you quote figures and then turn around and give your "true" numbers. Where did this 37% come from? Your personal opinion poll taken from outside of Serbia? If you live and work outside of Serbia, I do not see how you could be an authority on what the sentiment of the majority population is.
You say that the Free trade, visa regime, and SAA have all come about without Serbia backing down.
Take an honest look at the rhetoric and actions of Serbia today and in 2008 and come back and say Serbia has not changed their stance. You can say it but it simply is not true and you know it even if you do not admit it.
I am not giving merits on whether it is advantageous for Serbia to enter the EU, but daily it is stated by your leaders that is the goal.
Do I agree that the EU will need to alter its present form to survive? 100%
But again membership for Serbia is a Serbian goal, not Albanian, not Kosovo, not mine.

"That "French cathedral" topic paired with "Giorgio Basta, the saver of Hungarians" will haunt you for a while"
Ataman

I am amused to see that you are still licking your wounds. You were wrong on both counts and your pride can't accept that I pointed it out.
With the cathedrals you wanted to equal the "cathedrals" ok Jak and Vladimir with the cathedrals of France. Try to sell this idea to people in Western Europe and the USA.
As for Georgio Basta in which Hungarian history school books did you find any reference to his "mass" executions? There was never any such reference. Mass executions generally mean more than 100-200. You were unable to load up any prove of it. What you gave was only a hint to sporadic killing. But this follows a general scenario. Since you are not really Hungarian you never cared about them. Just the opposite. You try to dig out stories against Albanians. When I demask you than you react like a spoiled child. Please man up!.

(John, 22 January 2011 22:27) - John, take the pamphlet back to the bookstore and ask for your money back - you got taken.
Amer

If there is such a bookstore at all who sells such pamphlet. Anyway I find it so ridiculous and futil to try to come up with theories about Illyrians and Albanians. Whatever is the truth that will not change the present realities on the ground.

Like it or not the US was vehemently opposed direct talks and that’s a stated fact.

Your problem is you think I live in Serbia and this is all Serbian propaganda. Think what you like because I know when governments lie to their people as I have been involved with them (to use US terminology at Deputy secretary/Secretary level) from 1989 to 2005. I don’t need to understand the French or German because western governments and their officials all behave the same way. Ever heard the term “retiring to spend more time with the family” it means either that the party has something on him and is forcing his resignation or he wants to bailout before he brings down the government.

I have been involved with more political opinion polls than you have had hot dinners. I have seen every method of twisting figures and preparing questions that will provide you with the answers you want. So don’t tell me what I know and what I don’t know.

In Serbia the most proEU were the young people that were finishing school/university because it gave hope for jobs. The older generation did not accept the Eu because they knew that it is BS. You only have to talk to people to find out that this position has change dramatically in the last couple of years. Europeans are not stupid unless you live in the US where they believe everything their media tells them. The US has an unemployment level of 22% plus; 40 million living off food stamps; an under employed work force of close to 50 million, but everything is great and everyone is happy.

Surely you have read the recent article that the Serbian Government’s recent poll disclosed only “57%’ favoured joining the EU, down from 80% a couple of years ago? Believe what you like but my figures are spot on as are my sources.

I don’t need to look at rhetoric but I look at the results – Vietnam two months before US left:

“We are here to stay and fight the communist aggressors against a democratically elected government in South Vietnam…………..” Fast forward and you have the US Ambassador in Saigon now Ho Chi Min City declaring a US victory and getting into a helicopter and leaving. One hour later North Vietnamese tanks were storming through the embassy grounds.

The free trade, SAA and Visa free travel are ALL big ticket items; they are not sweeteners. A sweetener is allowing Serbian transport easier movement through EU countries. A sweetener is a minor issue that is supposed to tantalise the opponent of bigger things to come if they play ball, but if you call these major items sweeteners then you living in another world.

The EU is finished. The Germans have had their taste of being the top dog in Europe and have learnt the hard way that it’s not worth it – there is no profit. However, they are now looking to the Russians.

Kosovo and its Albanian people have no say in what happens just as they had no say before. No money no food and they starve – simple as that. However, if you see another source of income that Kosovo can tap into please enlighten me because I am very interested to hear about it. The problem with you Albanians is you think you’re of great importance but like all small nations they have to sit in the corner and keep quite and take opportunities as they fall and you have had yours in 1999. What are the Albanians going to do about a reintegration? Not a blessed thing. They’ll declare you terrorist and you’re finished.

The US, well they are too busy kissing China’s President’s butt. No kissy butt not more money.

1. The Albanian language is part of a Seperate language family to that of the Illyrian Languages
2. The Illyrians share little traits with the Albanians (Interestingly, they were more similar to modern day Serbs then Albanians)
3. The Illyrians share little DNA with the Albanians
4. Records state that the Albanians arrived in Europe with the Turks from Caucasian Albania in the 11th Century,

While the Illyrians had died out by the 7th Century, 300 Years before the Albanians arrived
5. The Language of Modern Albanians is closely related to that of Azerbaijan and Armenia (Caucasian Albania)
6. There are no records earlier then the 19th Century stating that Albanians are Descended from Illyrians


(John, 22 January 2011 22:27)

----

(John, 22 January 2011 22:27) - John, take the pamphlet back to the bookstore and ask for your money back - you

got taken.
(Amer, 23 January 2011 16:03)

Amer, let's be optimistic and that glass is half-full. Or pessimistic because John won't get back more, than 66% of the money back.

Here is why:

#1: true. Illyrian language is unknown.
---------
Not true. Saying the Illyrian language is unknown (except for some personal and place names) is not the same as saying it's not related to Albanian. (I'm hoping for more texts from the excavations of Ulpiana, where there was a previous Illyrian town. Maybe some Pliny-type made observations on the local language, and the scroll just
happened to escape destruction.)

#2: true.
Based on what?

#3: true, but the so-called Ghegs (largely Albanians from mountains OVERLOOKING Kosovo) is a separate story, they are neither Illyrians, nor Slavs, they are a little pocket of a population which called the area home before Illyrians ever existed. The original language of Ghegs wasn't Indo-European.

False: Gheg is a dialect of Albanian - Tosk and Gheg separated only sometime in the 15th century. And the Albanians have more Illyrian in them than anything else, according to DNA evidence.

#4: Urban legend. "Albanians" in Caucasus are largely Ossetes.
#5: Urban legend. Albanian (Squip) language has nothing to do with Albanian (Ossetian) language, except the name.

#6: true.
-----
Irrelevant.

Food for thought: "Iveria" is one of the name Georgia is associated with. The origin of Georgians is unknown. The
same name also is associated with Basques and in general, Iberian peninsula. There is quite some parallel and some SPECULATION (pure speculation!) about Georgian - Gheg - Basque common origin.

It does not mean that Ghegs or Basques would originate in Georgia, it just means that today they are "pockets" of somewhat, what was once larger. And it is clearly explained in the book ISBN 963-280-689.

------------------
It takes more than one book, which nobody found necessary to translate into any major language. The business about Basques and Georgian is fairly common - I don't say accepted - but Gheg? Which differs from Tosk only in some regular sound changes and vocabulary?
DNA evidence shows Albanians are typical Europeans - if any connection is found with Basques or Georgians, it'll be eagerly reported, I'm sure.
____________

According the legend shosi and shala came to high lands leaving from Kosovo valley about 3300 years ago and they are not allowed to intermarry (page 299). I do not know much but with the lack of knowledge I have to rely on book.
________________
Yes, the relationship of the Shosi and the Shala is well-known (there's also a connection with the Miredita) - but 3300 years ago? I think your dates are off by a few millenia.
________________

So Ghegs abandoned Kosovo for an extended period of time, at least 2300 years. The language they speak today is nearly the same the Tosks do speak, but by no means they have the same origin.
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So the "Ghegs" originally lived in Kosovo, then went "somewhere" for 2600 years, then came back and began speaking a dialect of
Albanian?



Hittite resembles Slavic etc. because it was an Indo-European language. I agree - Russisa's unlikely to have any claim to part of Anatolia on this basis. No more than England does, anyway.

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The Albanian-Illyrian things are precisely of the same level as Hungarian-Sumerian or Russian/Polish-Hittite dreams: perfect while playing strategy games and forging alliances on computer or commenting on Youtube.
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Not really - there's the DNA evidence, after all. It may turn out that the Croatians and Montenegrins have a higher percentage of Illyrian genes than the Albanians, but it suggests that the connection exists.

So John gets at least 5/6 of his money back. (I'm willing to go easy on 6, because I do know when this was first mentioned. Although I think it's irrelevant. That the Kanun has elements going back to the Bronze Age suggests that the Albanians have been a society for a very long time, and there are only a limited number of possibilities of who they could have been. And where.

„Basta... kam... mit! den Hayducken
***
Hopefully you do know what hajdú are...
If not: "Among the Christians, the most brutal were the hajdú troops, mostly uprooted peasants who applied to their former fellows the cruelty that they had suffered and learned from the soldiers."
So all complaints should be directed at your fellow(?) Hungarians...

The US, well they are too busy kissing China’s President’s butt. No kissy butt not more money.
(sj, 24 January 2011 00:00)
You have convinced me. It is true you have knowledge beyond our years, in your short life time you have dined and counseled presidents, kings and dictators. You have successfully dominated the business world in half the countries on the planet. You know the secrets of the the street people while personal knowledge of all top secret meetings since WWII and most of all you have become a legend in your own mind.
Me, I am just a simple American who came to care about the everyday lives of a group of people that need help developing a quality life free of oppression.
I am humbled!