Serbia "not required" to give up territory

@AdamNYC
You are mistaken.The pattern is not in how many countries dont recognize "kosovo". The pattern is in "Kosovos" recognitions. 53 countries recognized it in 2008. 11 in 2009. 7 in 2010. 2 in 2011. It seems to me that this pattern doesnt seem so good for the Albanians. Whats it going to be in 2012 0? Haha dont try to blame everyhting on Serbian propaganda because the Albanians and US/EU are the true propaganda generators. By the way what happend to your 100+ recognitions "Kosovos" temporary instituitions were promising after the ICJ ruling? Ive seen only a handful, and small pacific islands at that."Kosovo" was doomed since february 17,2008.

ivan:
By your definition of independence, the Serbs north of Ibar are independent too, aren't they?

Kosovo is 'independent'? Since when? There are thousands of international courts and soldiers from every corner of the world running all fecets of the so-called government. The IMF has to pay for everything. Finally, there's a little thing that's very binding on the international stage, it's called the 1244 UN resolution which strictly state's that Kosovo is Serbia's land.

Kosovo is independent. It's a done deal. Stop lying to your people.

The kosovo albanians will soon have to come to terms with Serbia. 60% of the world does not recognize them as anything but a serbian province! They can not join any International organizations like the EU, UN, or NATO due to the fact that there is a substantial number of countries firmly against it. Kosovo and Metohija will remain a black hole within the balkans and all of europe since it will be the only region not in th EU. They will have to find a compromise with Serbia over the future status, IT IS INEVITABLE. You cannot just pretend you are a country and think youll just get all the priveleges and rights of one. As long as Serbia, Russia, China, India, Brazil, Indonesia, Egypt, and the 5 EU countries don't recognize the UDI ( which doesnt look like it will ever happen anyway) Kosovo has no future. The Albanians must come to the negotiating table with Serbia and find a solution to the final status acceptable to both sides. The albanian people will start getting tired of the status quo sooner or later because dont expect "kosovo" to ever join the EU and enjoy the priveleges like every other coutry without a Serbian,Spanish,Greek,Slovak,Cypriot,Romanian, and soon Bosnian approval.Kosovo can not be prosperous until they settle their status with Serbia. until tht happens no foreign investors will go there, they will not join the EU, and the economy will not grow. Serbia can wait forever for the albanians because nothing has changed iin kosovo since the UDI. Serbs still live there, they still recognize it as a serbian province, serbia still funds the kosovo serbs, serbian politicians go to kosovo all the time, and serbia has direct control of 25% of the territory of Kosovo * the serbian enclaves). Nothing has changed for serbia in kosovo. Everything is the same. The UDI is only a symbolic move y the albanians to make it look like they won the battle when it still is not over until Serbia calls the shot.

Oliver Oliver Oliver, you don't seem to get it. The EP was talking about Serbia not about Kosova.

But do not worry, we will come and take what was ours, Presheve Valley, Prekuplje, ...

Everthing on his time.

Tung

Kosovo is 'independent'? Since when? There are thousands of international courts and soldiers from every corner of the world running all fecets of the so-called government. The IMF has to pay for everything. Finally, there's a little thing that's very binding on the international stage, it's called the 1244 UN resolution which strictly state's that Kosovo is Serbia's land.
(Mike, 21 January 2011 17:24)
As much as you want to change the terminology and all, 1244 in no way guarantees Kosovo to remain a part of Serbia. The crust of 1244 first severs Serbian control, and then establishes a democratic govt autonomous of Serbian control with no "preset" future status. For Kosovo and 74 countries a political settlement has been made, for Serbia and a handful of countries it has not, for the rest of the world is is as of yet undetermined.
The closest Serbia can get even the UNSC to support the Serbian claim is to agree to a "status neutral" position, which is no recognition as state nor province.

Olli -you are one of us - kosovar,enough with your smoke screens , we know you get paid for that but soon BG paymasters going to stop sci-fi post and what you going to do?with your colorful CV not much respect left for you if come here

Kosovo independence is mostly an moral but also an historical solution of the now closed Kosovo issue. Moral because we all know what Milosevic did to F.Yugoslavia and the neighbours of Serbia. Historical because albanians belive that Kosovo is their native land and nobody can prove the opposite. But Kosovo has also legal right to be independent based on this two pillars and the ICJ verdict.
(Demi, 21 January 2011 18:37)

Unfortunetly Kosovo being part of Serbia is both a Moral and Legal and Historical Solution, Moral Because firstly, when Milosevic was on Trial, nothing was proven and he died an innocent man, also because of what the KLA did (and still do) to the minorities of the Province. Secondly, Serbs have lived in Kosovo since the 6th Century, Hundreds of years before the first Albanians arrived (and dont claim you're illyrians because its been proven that you're not Illyrians many times), and Only after the SS Skandeberg Division turned up did the Albanians hold the majoirity in the province , a position that was consolidated by thousands of Albanians who escaped from Hoxha's Albania and entered Yugoslavia illegally. Finally, There is a legal argument, firstly UNSC resolution 1244 Which states that Kosovo is Part Of Serbia, Secondly Theres a thing called the UN Charter, which means that Kosovo cannot declare independence, There are UN Recognised borders, and Kosovo is a part of Serbia, and theres also the Serbian Constitution. The ICJ Verdict was simply an opinion, and of that an opinion of only 10 people, who simply dont have the kind of power to create new states. Additionally, their refusal to negotiate shows that they know all this, and that Thaci's days are numbered.

1244 UN resolution which strictly state's that Kosovo is Serbia's land.
(Mike, 21 January 2011 17:24)

todays republic of serbia, not an inheritor of the former yugoslavia wich 1244 speaks, having entered the un AFTER kosovo was lost as it was a un protectorate. And Has never held kosovo in its existence.

The only thing UN1244 EVER stated, That it was explicity and absolutely clear on, was that the serb controlled side no authority of anykind whatsover over kosovo.

It is utter and complete fantasy, dishonesty, and desperation to claim that un1244 states that anything strictly 'belongs' to the republic of serbia when todays republic of serbia is Younger than the paper 1244 is actually written on.

Serbia lost nothing. Kosovo was nothing they could lose. Disagree? then challenge it.

It is serbia, and serbia alone that Refuses to make any further legal challenge. Nothing is stopping it from doing so. Do it.

The Kosovo side will in no way have a dialoug with Serbia on it's independence or constitution. And not on it's territorial integrity or soveregnity either. EU will not make such a request on Kosovo and Serbia cannot force in any way Kosovo to discuss the status issue wich is a closed issue. Not an open one as Serbia hopes!


I don't see any outcome from this dialoug and it should not be held at all. Let Serbia recognize Kosovo then we could talk. Meanwhile Kosovo should strenghen it's institution, chiefly the district of the rule of law in all of it's territory. Kosovo should spread it's full authority over the whole of it's territory primary the North and create what was the goal from the begining, an multi ethnic country. Not a divided country wich for the people of Kosovo is not in anyones interest. K.Serbs live in Kosovo and albanians are their neighbours so why request to live in Serbia insteed of trying to build bridges between the two people in one common sociaty. It dosen't sound so smart to put an border at the ibar bridge and at the same time working to get into EU where borders dosen't exist. Kosovo independence is mostly an moral but also an historical solution of the now closed Kosovo issue. Moral because we all know what Milosevic did to F.Yugoslavia and the neighbours of Serbia. Historical because albanians belive that Kosovo is their native land and nobody can prove the opposite. But Kosovo has also legal right to be independent based on this two pillars and the ICJ verdict.

ivan:
By your definition of independence, the Serbs north of Ibar are independent too, aren't they?
(mms, 21 January 2011 19:53)


As of 17,02 2008 (Feb 17, 2008) they are too.



Thanks,

sigh, who do you serb apologists fooling?

from the moment serbia capitulated at the un, and refused further legal challenge to kosovo and agreed to talk with the people they have insisted dont exist for a decade.

Ive said to serb apologists on this site that Status is not up for negotiation, that your leadership is lying to you when it feeds you the propaganda meant for your own ears, and reminded you that the joint resolution and agreement to have dialogue was not an agreement with kosovo, it is something you created with europeans.

and warned, and still do, that the moment you play dumb and derail talks by doing the obvious...to try and turn it into status talks, you will do NOTHING but tick off the same europeans you have your hand in your hat trying to join. you will do is shoot yourselves in the foot when you try.

Now I never beleived for a moment that serbia ever had any intention of entering in any honest talks... it simply painted itself into a corner with its abysmall failure with the icj and utter lack of legal options.

But now here you guys are, with your own leadership spouting such nonsense, not at albos, but directed at serbs themselves... including olivier ivanovic, a man who holds an imaginary title no less, words directly contradicting the plain and crystal clear language used by the ep.

Do you not see how dumb it is?

I mean really, what do you hope to accomplish? it doesnt hurt kosovo when your leadership plays games, contradicts, and otherwise shows itself to be dishonest liars to its european neighbors. What exactly do you people think you are going "win" for doing so?

This pattern of political behavior certainly hasnt worked with kosovo,any of its neigbors, and otherwise hasnt accomplished one single serbs... ever.

what do you think is going to change now?

And it is true, serbia is not required to give up any territory.

kosovo is not theirs to lose.

--------------------------

@anonymous who says...
"60% of the world does not recognize them ..."

there was a time when you could have said

"70% of the world ..."

and further back you could have said

"80% of the world ..."

and further back you could have said

"90% of the world ..."

Notice a pattern anonymous? self serving serbian propaganda does nothing, effects nothing, achieves nothing. Accept it.

enjoy.

ivan:
By your definition of independence, the Serbs north of Ibar are independent too, aren't they?
(mms, 21 January 2011 19:53)
--??
Yes mms we are all Independent in Kosova since 17/02/2008 remember.

Kosovo is independent. It's a done deal. Stop lying to your people.

Oliver Oliver Oliver, you don't seem to get it. The EP was talking about Serbia not about Kosova.

But do not worry, we will come and take what was ours, Presheve Valley, Prekuplje, ...

Everthing on his time.

Tung

Kosovo is 'independent'? Since when? There are thousands of international courts and soldiers from every corner of the world running all fecets of the so-called government. The IMF has to pay for everything. Finally, there's a little thing that's very binding on the international stage, it's called the 1244 UN resolution which strictly state's that Kosovo is Serbia's land.

The Kosovo side will in no way have a dialoug with Serbia on it's independence or constitution. And not on it's territorial integrity or soveregnity either. EU will not make such a request on Kosovo and Serbia cannot force in any way Kosovo to discuss the status issue wich is a closed issue. Not an open one as Serbia hopes!


I don't see any outcome from this dialoug and it should not be held at all. Let Serbia recognize Kosovo then we could talk. Meanwhile Kosovo should strenghen it's institution, chiefly the district of the rule of law in all of it's territory. Kosovo should spread it's full authority over the whole of it's territory primary the North and create what was the goal from the begining, an multi ethnic country. Not a divided country wich for the people of Kosovo is not in anyones interest. K.Serbs live in Kosovo and albanians are their neighbours so why request to live in Serbia insteed of trying to build bridges between the two people in one common sociaty. It dosen't sound so smart to put an border at the ibar bridge and at the same time working to get into EU where borders dosen't exist. Kosovo independence is mostly an moral but also an historical solution of the now closed Kosovo issue. Moral because we all know what Milosevic did to F.Yugoslavia and the neighbours of Serbia. Historical because albanians belive that Kosovo is their native land and nobody can prove the opposite. But Kosovo has also legal right to be independent based on this two pillars and the ICJ verdict.

Kosovo is 'independent'? Since when? There are thousands of international courts and soldiers from every corner of the world running all fecets of the so-called government. The IMF has to pay for everything. Finally, there's a little thing that's very binding on the international stage, it's called the 1244 UN resolution which strictly state's that Kosovo is Serbia's land.
(Mike, 21 January 2011 17:24)
As much as you want to change the terminology and all, 1244 in no way guarantees Kosovo to remain a part of Serbia. The crust of 1244 first severs Serbian control, and then establishes a democratic govt autonomous of Serbian control with no "preset" future status. For Kosovo and 74 countries a political settlement has been made, for Serbia and a handful of countries it has not, for the rest of the world is is as of yet undetermined.
The closest Serbia can get even the UNSC to support the Serbian claim is to agree to a "status neutral" position, which is no recognition as state nor province.

Olli -you are one of us - kosovar,enough with your smoke screens , we know you get paid for that but soon BG paymasters going to stop sci-fi post and what you going to do?with your colorful CV not much respect left for you if come here

1244 UN resolution which strictly state's that Kosovo is Serbia's land.
(Mike, 21 January 2011 17:24)

todays republic of serbia, not an inheritor of the former yugoslavia wich 1244 speaks, having entered the un AFTER kosovo was lost as it was a un protectorate. And Has never held kosovo in its existence.

The only thing UN1244 EVER stated, That it was explicity and absolutely clear on, was that the serb controlled side no authority of anykind whatsover over kosovo.

It is utter and complete fantasy, dishonesty, and desperation to claim that un1244 states that anything strictly 'belongs' to the republic of serbia when todays republic of serbia is Younger than the paper 1244 is actually written on.

Serbia lost nothing. Kosovo was nothing they could lose. Disagree? then challenge it.

It is serbia, and serbia alone that Refuses to make any further legal challenge. Nothing is stopping it from doing so. Do it.

Kosovo independence is mostly an moral but also an historical solution of the now closed Kosovo issue. Moral because we all know what Milosevic did to F.Yugoslavia and the neighbours of Serbia. Historical because albanians belive that Kosovo is their native land and nobody can prove the opposite. But Kosovo has also legal right to be independent based on this two pillars and the ICJ verdict.
(Demi, 21 January 2011 18:37)

Unfortunetly Kosovo being part of Serbia is both a Moral and Legal and Historical Solution, Moral Because firstly, when Milosevic was on Trial, nothing was proven and he died an innocent man, also because of what the KLA did (and still do) to the minorities of the Province. Secondly, Serbs have lived in Kosovo since the 6th Century, Hundreds of years before the first Albanians arrived (and dont claim you're illyrians because its been proven that you're not Illyrians many times), and Only after the SS Skandeberg Division turned up did the Albanians hold the majoirity in the province , a position that was consolidated by thousands of Albanians who escaped from Hoxha's Albania and entered Yugoslavia illegally. Finally, There is a legal argument, firstly UNSC resolution 1244 Which states that Kosovo is Part Of Serbia, Secondly Theres a thing called the UN Charter, which means that Kosovo cannot declare independence, There are UN Recognised borders, and Kosovo is a part of Serbia, and theres also the Serbian Constitution. The ICJ Verdict was simply an opinion, and of that an opinion of only 10 people, who simply dont have the kind of power to create new states. Additionally, their refusal to negotiate shows that they know all this, and that Thaci's days are numbered.

sigh, who do you serb apologists fooling?

from the moment serbia capitulated at the un, and refused further legal challenge to kosovo and agreed to talk with the people they have insisted dont exist for a decade.

Ive said to serb apologists on this site that Status is not up for negotiation, that your leadership is lying to you when it feeds you the propaganda meant for your own ears, and reminded you that the joint resolution and agreement to have dialogue was not an agreement with kosovo, it is something you created with europeans.

and warned, and still do, that the moment you play dumb and derail talks by doing the obvious...to try and turn it into status talks, you will do NOTHING but tick off the same europeans you have your hand in your hat trying to join. you will do is shoot yourselves in the foot when you try.

Now I never beleived for a moment that serbia ever had any intention of entering in any honest talks... it simply painted itself into a corner with its abysmall failure with the icj and utter lack of legal options.

But now here you guys are, with your own leadership spouting such nonsense, not at albos, but directed at serbs themselves... including olivier ivanovic, a man who holds an imaginary title no less, words directly contradicting the plain and crystal clear language used by the ep.

Do you not see how dumb it is?

I mean really, what do you hope to accomplish? it doesnt hurt kosovo when your leadership plays games, contradicts, and otherwise shows itself to be dishonest liars to its european neighbors. What exactly do you people think you are going "win" for doing so?

This pattern of political behavior certainly hasnt worked with kosovo,any of its neigbors, and otherwise hasnt accomplished one single serbs... ever.

what do you think is going to change now?

ivan:
By your definition of independence, the Serbs north of Ibar are independent too, aren't they?

The kosovo albanians will soon have to come to terms with Serbia. 60% of the world does not recognize them as anything but a serbian province! They can not join any International organizations like the EU, UN, or NATO due to the fact that there is a substantial number of countries firmly against it. Kosovo and Metohija will remain a black hole within the balkans and all of europe since it will be the only region not in th EU. They will have to find a compromise with Serbia over the future status, IT IS INEVITABLE. You cannot just pretend you are a country and think youll just get all the priveleges and rights of one. As long as Serbia, Russia, China, India, Brazil, Indonesia, Egypt, and the 5 EU countries don't recognize the UDI ( which doesnt look like it will ever happen anyway) Kosovo has no future. The Albanians must come to the negotiating table with Serbia and find a solution to the final status acceptable to both sides. The albanian people will start getting tired of the status quo sooner or later because dont expect "kosovo" to ever join the EU and enjoy the priveleges like every other coutry without a Serbian,Spanish,Greek,Slovak,Cypriot,Romanian, and soon Bosnian approval.Kosovo can not be prosperous until they settle their status with Serbia. until tht happens no foreign investors will go there, they will not join the EU, and the economy will not grow. Serbia can wait forever for the albanians because nothing has changed iin kosovo since the UDI. Serbs still live there, they still recognize it as a serbian province, serbia still funds the kosovo serbs, serbian politicians go to kosovo all the time, and serbia has direct control of 25% of the territory of Kosovo * the serbian enclaves). Nothing has changed for serbia in kosovo. Everything is the same. The UDI is only a symbolic move y the albanians to make it look like they won the battle when it still is not over until Serbia calls the shot.

And it is true, serbia is not required to give up any territory.

kosovo is not theirs to lose.

--------------------------

@anonymous who says...
"60% of the world does not recognize them ..."

there was a time when you could have said

"70% of the world ..."

and further back you could have said

"80% of the world ..."

and further back you could have said

"90% of the world ..."

Notice a pattern anonymous? self serving serbian propaganda does nothing, effects nothing, achieves nothing. Accept it.

enjoy.

@AdamNYC
You are mistaken.The pattern is not in how many countries dont recognize "kosovo". The pattern is in "Kosovos" recognitions. 53 countries recognized it in 2008. 11 in 2009. 7 in 2010. 2 in 2011. It seems to me that this pattern doesnt seem so good for the Albanians. Whats it going to be in 2012 0? Haha dont try to blame everyhting on Serbian propaganda because the Albanians and US/EU are the true propaganda generators. By the way what happend to your 100+ recognitions "Kosovos" temporary instituitions were promising after the ICJ ruling? Ive seen only a handful, and small pacific islands at that."Kosovo" was doomed since february 17,2008.

ivan:
By your definition of independence, the Serbs north of Ibar are independent too, aren't they?
(mms, 21 January 2011 19:53)


As of 17,02 2008 (Feb 17, 2008) they are too.



Thanks,

ivan:
By your definition of independence, the Serbs north of Ibar are independent too, aren't they?
(mms, 21 January 2011 19:53)
--??
Yes mms we are all Independent in Kosova since 17/02/2008 remember.