"No new EU requirements on Kosovo"

You are wrong, prn. Serbia is a member of the UN, and fully recognized by the GA of that body. An independent Albanian Kosovo is recognized by approx. 1/3 the GA members, and is not a member of the UN. I don't understand your ignorance.

PRN: "Isn't is enough that 22 countries recognize Kosovo and ONLY 5 recognize Serbia?"

You've got to be kidding! Now you are trying to say that Serbia, a member of the UN and a long established nation in the world is not a 'recognised' state?

Or that it is somehow less recognised than the international protectorate and Serbian province of Kosovo? I am talking about under international law here, not in the doctrine of wishful thinking or the politically motivated wording of any outside governments or bodies.

@ Ben - Which part specifically of any EP resolution states that Kosovo is separate from Serbia?

Guys, EP resolutions are non-binding and the language used is soft. "Calls-on" and "welcomes" are not demands, it is just wishful thinking in many respects.

Ohhh, Mr. Đelić welcome to the club of nonsense (that includes Vuk, Oli and Bogdanovic). I thought you were smarter than them, but you proved me wrong.

"...the EP represented the least favorable of European institutions. " Đelić says.

I would like to know which European Institution is favourable to you!!!

Isn't is enough that 22 countries recognize Kosovo and ONLY 5 recognize Serbia?

22 countries recognise Kosovo as fully fledged country including our constitution.

5 countries recognise Serbia as fully fledged country including their constitution.

Isn't eought that EU forced Serbia in September 2010 at GA of UN to back down from a funny attempt to ask for discussins of new UNGA resolution where NO MENTION of status was allowed.

BTW are the Serbs so fools to belive their politiciains.

No wonder why Ekrem and Farma show is by far more heeded than what little Vuk, Đelić or 'politicians' from phantom ministry say.

EP adopted a resolution which obliges the EU not to ask Serbia anything related with Kosova.

That is a resolution which simply states: Serbia and Kosova are separate. PERIOD.

And you were there when the resolution was adopted. So stop b.s. the Serbians.

Strange, you Serbs have heard always, but always, something different than the rest of the world.

Trying to manipulate, keep on hanging to (broken) strings, mal-informing your own people.


Tung

@ Ben - Which part specifically of any EP resolution states that Kosovo is separate from Serbia?
(kate, 21 January 2011, 14:55)
***
Read the small print:
"calls on Serbia to enter into dialogue with Kosovo without any longer referring to new negotiations on its status"
I.e.: Topic closed

5. Welcomes the joint EU-Serbia resolution on the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice on Accordance with International Law of the Unilateral Declaration of Independence of Kosovo, adopted by acclamation by the UN General Assembly on 9 September 2010; welcomes the Serbian Government's willingness to engage in renewed dialogue with Kosovo within an EU framework and calls for the talks to start without delay; calls on Serbia to enter into dialogue with Kosovo without any longer referring to new negotiations on its status; expresses its confidence that a step-by-step approach can be employed to the benefit of all citizens of Kosovo; underlines that the dialogue, in order to be successful, will require commitment and readiness to compromise from both sides in view of their common European future and their common interest in establishing long-term peace and stability in the region and improving people's wellbeing; stresses that the ability to facilitate this process constitutes a test for the EU's credibility and political vision for the whole region; recalls that good-neighbourly relations are one of the most important conditions for all the Western Balkan countries to progress towards EU membership;

Here we have serbs lying to serbs, and you can see rampant serb apologists froth at the mouth at anyone for telling them the truth.

now, it is to be expected for nationalists to be the shysters they are as they fool themselves into thinking they arent as desperately transparent as they are.

but in every single situation serb apologists talk themselves into believing a fantasy given to them by their leadership, and every single time they are left disappointed by what for everyone else is a ridiculously obvious outcome.

and then we get to hear the whines and complaints about conspiracies when events take a "shocking"(to no one) turn.

Yes, we all know the song and dance.

but where are the 'normal'serbs as this happens? you know, the serbs who "arent" all deluded nationalists, the modern forward thinking serbs who are nothing like their forebearers? holding to account there own leadership as they obviously lie to them?

why the overwhelming silence when their own leadership plays games with no one but them?

serbs use the excuse of having been helpless before the lunatic leadership and the policies they had in the past.

The sad little fact is that nothing has changed. They are still as quiet and as complicit to their leaderships lies and propaganda as they ever were.

It only says that Serbia and Kosovo should attempt good neighbourly relations etc. etc.

You have proved nothing at all.
(kate, 21 January 2011 21:15)

Sure!

I would just if you don't mind underline your sentence:

"It only says that Serbia and Kosovo should attempt good neighbourly relations etc. etc." :)

Thank you so much for enlighting us all :)

Zoran and IUPM are both right and have stated irrefutable facts which are common knowledge.

Ben: "Read the small print:
"calls on Serbia to enter into dialogue with Kosovo without any longer referring to new negotiations on its status"
I.e.: Topic closed"

- There's no "ie." about it. It does not state that Kosovo is an independent state, just that new negotiations should not in their view be mentioned in dialogue. This stance has shifted in many international quarters since the Marty report anyway.

And re. your lengthier quote:

"…calls on Serbia to enter into dialogue with Kosovo without any longer referring to new negotiations on its status… [covered by above] expresses its confidence that a step-by-step approach can be employed to the benefit of all citizens of Kosovo [yes, and?]; underlines that the dialogue, in order to be successful, will require commitment and readiness to compromise from both sides in view of their common European future and their common interest in establishing long-term peace and stability in the region and improving people's wellbeing [yes, and?]…"

- Nowhere in your quote does it specifically say anything about Kosovo being an independent state. It only says that Serbia and Kosovo should attempt good neighbourly relations etc. etc.

You have proved nothing at all.

Kate,

Please stop twisting/spinning words/statemnts.

Read carefully, I said VERY CLEARLY that out 27 EU countries ONLY... " 5 countries recognise Serbia as FULLY FLEDGED country including their CONSTITUTION."

Intentionally you omitted the words "FULLY FLEDGED country" and "CONSTITUTION"

Typical Serbian spin!!!!

Please CORRECT if I am wrong!???

The force at work here is not the EU, it is the US. When the US lose interest in the Kosovo project (and there is no reason to believe that they won't when a few more US presidents have been and gone) the protectorate will degenerate, the inevitable moves towards unification with Albania will be provocative and the then the whole edifice will collapse with the EU not having the power or willingness to stop Serbia taking back that which it holds strongest claim for. Kosovo is not going to leave the Serbian heart, and Kosov'a' is not going to sustain forever.

Albanians are Albanian and Kosovo is not part of Albania - Kosovo is part of Serbia even if Albanians do live there. The justification for a separate state is weak and unless Serbia decides otherwise (and it won't) the udi will one day have to die.

In the mean time it makes sense for the EP take a soft line. While the time passes, at least people can talk to each other and deal with the little issues that let people live their daily lives.

You have proved nothing at all.
(kate, 21 January 2011 21:15)
***
(...)recalls that GOOD-NEIGHBOURLY relations are one of the most important conditions for all the Western Balkan CONTRIES to progress towards EU membership
Kate, please tell me how one can have good neighbourly relations with Kosovo, that according to you is an integral part of Serbia, if it isn't a country? According to your logic the EP has asked Serbia to have good neighbourly relations with itself...

Aleks, only one addition:
f) The assent procedure means that the Council has to obtain the European Parliament's assent before certain very important decisions are taken.
The procedure is the same as in the case of consultation, except that Parliament cannot amend a proposal: it must either accept or reject it. Acceptance (‘assent’) requires an absolute majority of the vote cast.
The assent procedure is mostly used for agreements with other countries, including the agreements allowing new countries to join the EU.

So these "second rate politicians" can block Serbia's way into the EU...

(Aleks, 22 January 2011 19:02)
As you so eloquently put it EU cannot force Serbia to recognize Kosovo, but as you also put it it must be a unanimous decision to allow Serbia in. All it takes is for any "1" of the 22 members supporting Kosovo independence to say you must recognize to get in. It does not take 27. Once Serbia agrees and enters the other 5 will no longer be an issue for Kosovo.
It has amazed me that posters here keep harping on there are 5 standing in the way of unanimously supporting Kosovo and that it takes in reality only (1). But seem to be oblivious to the fact that there are 22 pushing for Serbia's acceptance of Kosovo's independence and it only takes 1 to prevent entrance into the EU

There is still a surprising amount of ignorance of what 'good neighborly relations', specifically in relation to the territory in Kosovo controlled by Pristina.

Regardless of what the EP passed in their resolution:

a) it is not legally binding;

b) the definition of 'good neighborly relations' is extremely subjective and suitably vague. It is not spelled out in detail what this means in any of the EU treaties;

c) it is irrelevant as Kosovo is not recognized unanimously within the EU as an independent state, let alone internationally. In context, 'good neighborly relations' refers to relations between states. Kosovo simply isn't one at an EU legal level. Demanding the inversion of this requirement fundamentally undermines its own legal basis - but that is the EP for you. It is made of of second rate politicians most of whom can't cut it at home in such a profession and they show that they have a disregard for EU law legally and in spirits when it doesn't suit their opinion.

d) 'Brussels' cannot in any way legally force Serbia to accept the separation of Kosovo unless there is unanimity within the EU. Regardless of whether five, or one or 15 countries disagreeing with such a plan, it is legally impossible. It is not a circle that can be squared with redefinition of words.

e) The EP still has limited powers. Enlargement very soon becomes Qualified Majority Voting (under the Lisbon Agreement) so that no single country can veto a new membership (as Slovenia tried over Croatia and the Piran Bay dispute);

e) CFSP, Common Foreign and Security Policy remains in the hands of the Council of Ministers who if they agree unanimously, can pass the policy on to the EP who can vote on it using QMV.

So, the EP can pass their own resolutions written with whatever whatever words or phrases they like, but they remain words. The real powers remain in the hands of elected ministers of EU member states (incl. of course those who do not recognize [sic] 'Kosova'. It remains effectively in sovereign hands exactly because of point c) above, the EP plays fast and loose with EU rules when it feels like it. Now is that so hard to understand?

Or, let's put it another way. If the EU wants to add new legal requirements, then it will have to modify the Lisbon Treaty. This would require the formal agreement of all 27 EU member states. Does anyone recall how painful it was to get the Lisbon Treaty ratified by the EU in the first place and how each time a modification is proposed other member states also try to get their own modifications adopted?

Doodah wrote:

"All it takes is for any "1" of the 22 members supporting Kosovo independence to say you must recognize to get in. It does not take 27. Once Serbia agrees and enters the other 5 will no longer be an issue for Kosovo."
============================

Actually you are not quite right here. Cyprus has stated that even if Serbia was to recognise Kosovo they would not.
So you see, even if Serbia was forced to recognise Kosovo you still don't have a chance in getting in.

EP adopted a resolution which obliges the EU not to ask Serbia anything related with Kosova.

That is a resolution which simply states: Serbia and Kosova are separate. PERIOD.

And you were there when the resolution was adopted. So stop b.s. the Serbians.

Strange, you Serbs have heard always, but always, something different than the rest of the world.

Trying to manipulate, keep on hanging to (broken) strings, mal-informing your own people.


Tung

Zoran and IUPM are both right and have stated irrefutable facts which are common knowledge.

Ben: "Read the small print:
"calls on Serbia to enter into dialogue with Kosovo without any longer referring to new negotiations on its status"
I.e.: Topic closed"

- There's no "ie." about it. It does not state that Kosovo is an independent state, just that new negotiations should not in their view be mentioned in dialogue. This stance has shifted in many international quarters since the Marty report anyway.

And re. your lengthier quote:

"…calls on Serbia to enter into dialogue with Kosovo without any longer referring to new negotiations on its status… [covered by above] expresses its confidence that a step-by-step approach can be employed to the benefit of all citizens of Kosovo [yes, and?]; underlines that the dialogue, in order to be successful, will require commitment and readiness to compromise from both sides in view of their common European future and their common interest in establishing long-term peace and stability in the region and improving people's wellbeing [yes, and?]…"

- Nowhere in your quote does it specifically say anything about Kosovo being an independent state. It only says that Serbia and Kosovo should attempt good neighbourly relations etc. etc.

You have proved nothing at all.

Ohhh, Mr. Đelić welcome to the club of nonsense (that includes Vuk, Oli and Bogdanovic). I thought you were smarter than them, but you proved me wrong.

"...the EP represented the least favorable of European institutions. " Đelić says.

I would like to know which European Institution is favourable to you!!!

Isn't is enough that 22 countries recognize Kosovo and ONLY 5 recognize Serbia?

22 countries recognise Kosovo as fully fledged country including our constitution.

5 countries recognise Serbia as fully fledged country including their constitution.

Isn't eought that EU forced Serbia in September 2010 at GA of UN to back down from a funny attempt to ask for discussins of new UNGA resolution where NO MENTION of status was allowed.

BTW are the Serbs so fools to belive their politiciains.

No wonder why Ekrem and Farma show is by far more heeded than what little Vuk, Đelić or 'politicians' from phantom ministry say.

Kate,

Please stop twisting/spinning words/statemnts.

Read carefully, I said VERY CLEARLY that out 27 EU countries ONLY... " 5 countries recognise Serbia as FULLY FLEDGED country including their CONSTITUTION."

Intentionally you omitted the words "FULLY FLEDGED country" and "CONSTITUTION"

Typical Serbian spin!!!!

Please CORRECT if I am wrong!???

@ Ben - Which part specifically of any EP resolution states that Kosovo is separate from Serbia?
(kate, 21 January 2011, 14:55)
***
Read the small print:
"calls on Serbia to enter into dialogue with Kosovo without any longer referring to new negotiations on its status"
I.e.: Topic closed

5. Welcomes the joint EU-Serbia resolution on the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice on Accordance with International Law of the Unilateral Declaration of Independence of Kosovo, adopted by acclamation by the UN General Assembly on 9 September 2010; welcomes the Serbian Government's willingness to engage in renewed dialogue with Kosovo within an EU framework and calls for the talks to start without delay; calls on Serbia to enter into dialogue with Kosovo without any longer referring to new negotiations on its status; expresses its confidence that a step-by-step approach can be employed to the benefit of all citizens of Kosovo; underlines that the dialogue, in order to be successful, will require commitment and readiness to compromise from both sides in view of their common European future and their common interest in establishing long-term peace and stability in the region and improving people's wellbeing; stresses that the ability to facilitate this process constitutes a test for the EU's credibility and political vision for the whole region; recalls that good-neighbourly relations are one of the most important conditions for all the Western Balkan countries to progress towards EU membership;

PRN: "Isn't is enough that 22 countries recognize Kosovo and ONLY 5 recognize Serbia?"

You've got to be kidding! Now you are trying to say that Serbia, a member of the UN and a long established nation in the world is not a 'recognised' state?

Or that it is somehow less recognised than the international protectorate and Serbian province of Kosovo? I am talking about under international law here, not in the doctrine of wishful thinking or the politically motivated wording of any outside governments or bodies.

@ Ben - Which part specifically of any EP resolution states that Kosovo is separate from Serbia?

Guys, EP resolutions are non-binding and the language used is soft. "Calls-on" and "welcomes" are not demands, it is just wishful thinking in many respects.

You are wrong, prn. Serbia is a member of the UN, and fully recognized by the GA of that body. An independent Albanian Kosovo is recognized by approx. 1/3 the GA members, and is not a member of the UN. I don't understand your ignorance.

There is still a surprising amount of ignorance of what 'good neighborly relations', specifically in relation to the territory in Kosovo controlled by Pristina.

Regardless of what the EP passed in their resolution:

a) it is not legally binding;

b) the definition of 'good neighborly relations' is extremely subjective and suitably vague. It is not spelled out in detail what this means in any of the EU treaties;

c) it is irrelevant as Kosovo is not recognized unanimously within the EU as an independent state, let alone internationally. In context, 'good neighborly relations' refers to relations between states. Kosovo simply isn't one at an EU legal level. Demanding the inversion of this requirement fundamentally undermines its own legal basis - but that is the EP for you. It is made of of second rate politicians most of whom can't cut it at home in such a profession and they show that they have a disregard for EU law legally and in spirits when it doesn't suit their opinion.

d) 'Brussels' cannot in any way legally force Serbia to accept the separation of Kosovo unless there is unanimity within the EU. Regardless of whether five, or one or 15 countries disagreeing with such a plan, it is legally impossible. It is not a circle that can be squared with redefinition of words.

e) The EP still has limited powers. Enlargement very soon becomes Qualified Majority Voting (under the Lisbon Agreement) so that no single country can veto a new membership (as Slovenia tried over Croatia and the Piran Bay dispute);

e) CFSP, Common Foreign and Security Policy remains in the hands of the Council of Ministers who if they agree unanimously, can pass the policy on to the EP who can vote on it using QMV.

So, the EP can pass their own resolutions written with whatever whatever words or phrases they like, but they remain words. The real powers remain in the hands of elected ministers of EU member states (incl. of course those who do not recognize [sic] 'Kosova'. It remains effectively in sovereign hands exactly because of point c) above, the EP plays fast and loose with EU rules when it feels like it. Now is that so hard to understand?

Or, let's put it another way. If the EU wants to add new legal requirements, then it will have to modify the Lisbon Treaty. This would require the formal agreement of all 27 EU member states. Does anyone recall how painful it was to get the Lisbon Treaty ratified by the EU in the first place and how each time a modification is proposed other member states also try to get their own modifications adopted?

Here we have serbs lying to serbs, and you can see rampant serb apologists froth at the mouth at anyone for telling them the truth.

now, it is to be expected for nationalists to be the shysters they are as they fool themselves into thinking they arent as desperately transparent as they are.

but in every single situation serb apologists talk themselves into believing a fantasy given to them by their leadership, and every single time they are left disappointed by what for everyone else is a ridiculously obvious outcome.

and then we get to hear the whines and complaints about conspiracies when events take a "shocking"(to no one) turn.

Yes, we all know the song and dance.

but where are the 'normal'serbs as this happens? you know, the serbs who "arent" all deluded nationalists, the modern forward thinking serbs who are nothing like their forebearers? holding to account there own leadership as they obviously lie to them?

why the overwhelming silence when their own leadership plays games with no one but them?

serbs use the excuse of having been helpless before the lunatic leadership and the policies they had in the past.

The sad little fact is that nothing has changed. They are still as quiet and as complicit to their leaderships lies and propaganda as they ever were.

You have proved nothing at all.
(kate, 21 January 2011 21:15)
***
(...)recalls that GOOD-NEIGHBOURLY relations are one of the most important conditions for all the Western Balkan CONTRIES to progress towards EU membership
Kate, please tell me how one can have good neighbourly relations with Kosovo, that according to you is an integral part of Serbia, if it isn't a country? According to your logic the EP has asked Serbia to have good neighbourly relations with itself...

It only says that Serbia and Kosovo should attempt good neighbourly relations etc. etc.

You have proved nothing at all.
(kate, 21 January 2011 21:15)

Sure!

I would just if you don't mind underline your sentence:

"It only says that Serbia and Kosovo should attempt good neighbourly relations etc. etc." :)

Thank you so much for enlighting us all :)

The force at work here is not the EU, it is the US. When the US lose interest in the Kosovo project (and there is no reason to believe that they won't when a few more US presidents have been and gone) the protectorate will degenerate, the inevitable moves towards unification with Albania will be provocative and the then the whole edifice will collapse with the EU not having the power or willingness to stop Serbia taking back that which it holds strongest claim for. Kosovo is not going to leave the Serbian heart, and Kosov'a' is not going to sustain forever.

Albanians are Albanian and Kosovo is not part of Albania - Kosovo is part of Serbia even if Albanians do live there. The justification for a separate state is weak and unless Serbia decides otherwise (and it won't) the udi will one day have to die.

In the mean time it makes sense for the EP take a soft line. While the time passes, at least people can talk to each other and deal with the little issues that let people live their daily lives.

Aleks, only one addition:
f) The assent procedure means that the Council has to obtain the European Parliament's assent before certain very important decisions are taken.
The procedure is the same as in the case of consultation, except that Parliament cannot amend a proposal: it must either accept or reject it. Acceptance (‘assent’) requires an absolute majority of the vote cast.
The assent procedure is mostly used for agreements with other countries, including the agreements allowing new countries to join the EU.

So these "second rate politicians" can block Serbia's way into the EU...

(Aleks, 22 January 2011 19:02)
As you so eloquently put it EU cannot force Serbia to recognize Kosovo, but as you also put it it must be a unanimous decision to allow Serbia in. All it takes is for any "1" of the 22 members supporting Kosovo independence to say you must recognize to get in. It does not take 27. Once Serbia agrees and enters the other 5 will no longer be an issue for Kosovo.
It has amazed me that posters here keep harping on there are 5 standing in the way of unanimously supporting Kosovo and that it takes in reality only (1). But seem to be oblivious to the fact that there are 22 pushing for Serbia's acceptance of Kosovo's independence and it only takes 1 to prevent entrance into the EU

Doodah wrote:

"All it takes is for any "1" of the 22 members supporting Kosovo independence to say you must recognize to get in. It does not take 27. Once Serbia agrees and enters the other 5 will no longer be an issue for Kosovo."
============================

Actually you are not quite right here. Cyprus has stated that even if Serbia was to recognise Kosovo they would not.
So you see, even if Serbia was forced to recognise Kosovo you still don't have a chance in getting in.