Marty: I didn’t directly accuse Thaci

Marty mentions 'several cases' because he has to prove specifics, which is pretty hard when there has been an attempt to obliterate all evidence (even by the ICTY!) and terrorise witnesses.

By proving a few, he is not saying there were not hundreds of cases, he is just trying to do his job properly which will hopefully lead to justice for many more victims if the perpetrators are locked away.

I am amazed at the neanderthal attitudes on this site towards Dick Marty and his investigation. He was commissioned by the Council of Europe to do this report, and yet every day I read personal insults and threats aimed at him.

Everyone who is dismissing these charges out of hand, or who doesn't want an investigation to go ahead, should be ashamed of themselves. If there is no case to answer, then why all the frantic reactions?

Thaci is mentioned thus: "We found that the 'Drenica Group' had as its chief – "or, to use the terminology of organised crime networks, its 'boss' – the renowned political operator and perhaps most internationally recognised personality of the KLA, Hashim Thaci".

No, the terminology to be used in mafia-like structures is 'godfather' :-)

Somebody is trying to kill the messenger. Marty only did what he was supposed to do, file a report and suggest an investigation. Everything in his report is true and everybody knows it. Thaci's supporters can squeal and squirm and call Marty on to the carpet as much as they want. There will be an investigation.

Maybe Marty didn't accuse Thaci directly of KLA crimes, but others have:
http://www.swans.com/library/art17/elich12.html

Nice try Dick Marty. Within a month you will be exposed as a liar and fraud. He's trying to help his own skin, not going to work. You should have thought before lying.

Where's the evidence? Exactly, you have none.

Unlike Mrs. Carla Del Ponte I specify many aspects. I don’t speak about hundreds of illegal transplants, I speak about several cases,” Marty told Radio Television of Kosovo.


several cases for serbs on this site means 300! right?

Mr. Dick you have zero cases. I have seen your interview in its entirety, and you look like you made a big blunder. I don't know how you are going to come out of this mess!

This is only very small excerpt of the interview. Where are the parts where Marty is furiours how his report is politicized by some and that he is in full support of the independence, as well as that he regards this process as finished? Apparantly, that decisive part has been left out.

Marty is woken up from from Serbo-Russian therapy and is sensing that ALL the world is seeing a different reality apart from those that are paying me.
(PRN, 19 January 2011 11:12)
--
Who is paying you PRN? Thaci?

Well, I'm glad you and other ethnic Albanians are finally warming up to accepting Marty. His report contains some very interesting information so the time for an investigation is approaching. I hope you are ready for the truth. It will be good for the region.

When a criminal changes his story he shows that he's lying and hiding something. Dick Marty has started to change his story.

I think Mr Dick Marty is backing down.

And we all know the reason why:

NO EVIDENCE!

But I remain with what I said before ...

If people has commited these crimes they should face justice. No question about that.

But to all of you Serbs: You are very good in didecting the splinter in our eye but seems to miss the whole beam in your eye.

Tung

This is only very small excerpt of the interview. Where are the parts where Marty is furiours how his report is politicized by some and that he is in full support of the independence, as well as that he regards this process as finished? Apparantly, that decisive part has been left out.
(JohnC., 19 January 2011 11:03)
--
Oh, I thought Marty was on the Serbo-Russian payroll? Part of the anti-independence propagandist network? Hmm, seems not. Maybe he is just doing his job and exposing the mafia in KiM? Is that a possibility?

Now as for evidence, please be patient. Seselj has been in a Hague for 7 years and they still haven't produced anything. However, I'm confident that the goods will come up against the mafia in KiM much much sooner.

Well, something's going wrong here. The Albanian camp claims that "Dick Marty is backing down".

Backing down from where? From the absurd accusations of the Albanian camp: That he works for Serbia, that he works for Russia, that he is on the payroll of an anti-independence mafia, that he is a Göbbels-like figure, that his investigation is Nazi propaganda, etc.

If you read Marty's report you can see he has not rewritten it. It stands as it was. The misconception of Marty's report was created by the Albanians, Thaci being one of them. As most of Albanians commenting here, too.

The next mob attack will be against those Albanian individuals who have provided information to Marty's team. The mob will grab these people by their throats and call them "traitors".

It was inevitable that Marty's report would be used in politics, too. How else? And who did it the loudest? Correct answer: Mr. Thaci. Serbia naturally did this too, but with much more restrained voice. In fact with so restrained voice that Albanians commenting here got nervous and demanded stronger commitment from Serbia. I remember that especially johny was hot about the retrained reaction by Serbian state. So hot that I replied to him:

"johny, for 4 days you were anxiously crying why official Serbia didn't publicly comment on Marty's report. Now when it did, after cleverly following other institutions first engaging themselves into debate, you still aren't pleased but continue your cry in this way:

" '[...] as long as Serbia refuses to bring this to UNSC and other international investigative bodies [...] refusal on Serbia's part [...] can only be seen as an attempt to discredit Kosova through rumors [...]. If this was a sincere attempt to seek the truth Serbia would be at the UNSC seeking and forcefully requesting an investigation [...] ' "

"Your cry continues: 'Why are you and Serbia so afraid to take proactive actions?' "

Or have I got it all wrong?

"Marty: I didn’t directly accuse Thaci"

Marty is turning the tide. He said in the interview Serbian massive crimes are by far grave and important to investigate than anything else.

Marty is woken up from from Serbo-Russian therapy and is sensing that ALL the world is seeing a different reality apart from those that are paying me. However, nevertheless, he has dirtied himself so much that no water can clean him apart from the Hague tribunal.

Haliti, Veseli, Syla, Limaj, and THAQI are the CULPRITS


Quoting from Marty's Report...

"Our first-hand sources alone have credibly implicated Haliti, Veseli, Syla and Limaj, alongside THAQI and other members of his inner circle, in having ordered – and in some cases personally overseen – assassinations, detentions, beatings and interrogations in various parts of Kosovo and, of particular interest to our work, in the context of KLA-led operations on the territory of Albania, between 1998 and 2000."

..."Specifically, IN OUR DETERMINATION, the leaders of the “Drenica Group” seem to bear the greatest responsibility for two sets of unacknowledged crimes described in this report: for running the KLA’s ad hoc network of detention facilities on the territory of Albania;34 and for determining the fate of the prisoners who were held in those facilities, including the many abducted civilians brought over the border into Albania from Kosovo."

..."But we can claim to HAVE GATHERED EVIDENCE COMPELLING ENOUGH TO DEMAND FORCEFULLY that the international bodies and the states concerned finally take every step to ensure that the truth is ascertained and the CULPRITS CLEARLY IDENTIFIED and called to account for their acts."

Pretty clear...there are names, gathered evidence and a FORCEFUL demand by Marty that the CULPRITS account for their acts.

no mr dick u have to give your facts for this bs . . report go fine some lawyer

“Thaci and these other 'Drenica Group' members are consistently named as 'key players' in intelligence reports on Kosovo’s mafia-like structures of organized crime. I have examined these diverse, voluminous reports with consternation and a sense of moral outrage,” Marty wrote...
--
And that is the whole point. This is much much larger than just organ trafficking. It involves people and drug trafficking, abductions, murder, terrorism and a host of other crimes.

As Marty admits, much of the information he has obtained comes from Western intelligence agents. The internationals are well aware of the situation and they have allowed it for some kind of perceived "stability".

It is the Serbians and even some ethnic Albanians who have been the victims of these heinous crimes. It is time to put an end to the criminal elements in KiM. Only then will the region start moving forward in terms of peace and prosperity. Reconciliation is key but that will be impossible if people continue to support the mafia structures present in the region.

The time for change is now.

Marty to cover his back does not say hundreds as the mediocre fantasist and novelist Del Ponte but he speaks about “several cases”.

Well my neighbour had a kidney failure and they had to remove it.

I am sure that you will find “several” Serbs that had similar problems and perhaps died – can you then link that to Kosova??? With your fantasy yes – but that is not a proof.

Marty presented a bombastic report with horrendous accusations which covered the front pages of the half world without providing single evidence.

It’s up to other to provide proofs he says.

Now we will wait for 2 or 3 more years with this horrendous accusation on our back so that in 3 years we will find someone who will say:

‘well Marty did not provide any evidence and neither we can since there are no evidences.’

And of course since the life is ironic this last part in 3 years time will be published in the 22nd page of perhaps some local journal.

Marty knows this thing very well;

those that commissioned this report know this very well;

we know this very well;

Thus Marty will never have my respect if he does not provide even a single evidence before that he accuses someone in front of the world about such horrendous crimes.

This is horrendous slandering and abuse of office- this is crime- and Marty will answer about this in front of a judge, a patriot or God- it doesn’t matter but he will have to answer on day and he knows this very well – thus his half U turns or even full U turns do not impress me at all.

Does the concept of 'Command Responsibility' not have a role here?

I think the West is now desperately trying to get some sucker to take the rap for Thaci regardless of whether he's guilty or not!

What a nonsense. Of course Thaci didn't directly (=in person) take part in organ trade, just as Milosevic didn't kill anyone, directly.
And of course not the whole KLA with some 10,000 of persons took part, but only certyin groups.

This is not a 'change', it was clear for everyone since the beginning - well, except, obviously, for Kosovo Albanians who believe in the Thaci fairytales about the "anti-independence network" and "insult of all Albanians"

Four person have come up alive in which you and your buddies in COE claim to have been killed by UCK. We have tapes of Serbia trying to buy confessions from Kosovar minority. And now you're backing down? You're worthless...you will exposed!!!!!

It is all there is black and white in his report. He has not backed down. It is peoples (albanians) perceptions of what he wrote that has changed. Through this whole saga over the last few months it has proved one thing. He was right to question the wall of albanian patriotism as a barrier to justice. We have threats to expose witnesses, claims of racism, serb/russian conspiracies and abuse and intimidation of an individual who is just doing his job.

I'd say that point in his report is proved.

This is only very small excerpt of the interview. Where are the parts where Marty is furiours how his report is politicized by some and that he is in full support of the independence, as well as that he regards this process as finished? Apparantly, that decisive part has been left out.
(JohnC., 19 January 2011 11:03)

The same thing came into my mind also, where is the rest of the interview?
B92, selective publishing?

Pretty clear...there are names, gathered evidence and a FORCEFUL demand by Marty that the CULPRITS account for their acts.
(Roger7, 19 January 2011)

Oh my Thaci was responsible for running detention centers in Albania and interrogations and assassinations?
Really? You are surprised that those things happen in a time of war? They led an uprising againts the Serbian army and risked their own lives. You bet collaborators will be assassinated and if captured alive detained and interrogated.

Now nowhere did I see Thaci's name implicated in "organ harvesting" like you Serbs claimed all along. And as for evidence we're still waiting.

"Pretty clear...there are names, gathered evidence and a FORCEFUL demand by Marty that the CULPRITS account for their acts."

What acts? EULEX and UNMIK have arrested people for killing 'spies,' that's not news, it never has been. Now the Dick has to show the evidence for organ trading or he is done.

Marty mentions 'several cases' because he has to prove specifics, which is pretty hard when there has been an attempt to obliterate all evidence (even by the ICTY!)
...
(kate, 19 January 2011 14:47)

And do you know who ordered the destruction of those things? Nobody else than the one who some years later claimed in her book that this happened: Carla del Ponte.

Does this make sense? Yes, but only if you don't want that somebody checks this accusations. Those proofs could very much tell the oposite story but Carla destroyed them and claims otherwise. This is such a sharade and I seriously doubt that this whole case will ever come to a satisfying end.

That says more than 1 million words.

If you take "albo" logic to its ultimate conclusions, then they would say hitler bore no command responsibility for the holocaust. Their logic would also exonerate milosevic, too. Unfortunately for them and their us supporters, the WESTERN allies introduced and have consistently enforced their Nurenberg principles of crimes against humanity, especially against Serb suspects. They won't be able to sweep this under the rug this time - I see the real showdown at the UN this fall with Serbia having the advantage this time. In the past, it has all been about the us bribing the world to play along with its "new world order". Guess what? They have run out of money.

Where are the parts where Marty is furiours how his report is politicized by some and that he is in full support of the independence, as well as that he regards this process as finished? Apparantly, that decisive part has been left out.
(JohnC., 19 January 2011 11:03)

-------------------------

So what if he says that? As an Albanian i do not want Marty “support” for Kosovo independence or his support for the KLA. True, there are many parts of the interview that aren’t showed.
However, let’s not forget what Marty wrote in his report, let’s not forget what he wrote about hundreds of Serb’s being killed and slaughtered for their organs!!!! How would you feel if someone writes that for you missing brother, dad or friend, and accuses an individual and a country about it (in this instance Thaci ). Of course B92 would concentrate on that part of the interview as these are peoples life we talking about and after all it is a Serb media!
Whatever Marty says it doesn’t matter, what’s matter are the evidences he claims he has. Based on his interview, my personal opinion is not changed. This bloke is a charlatan and if he doesn’t provide the evidences he should be made to face a jury in court!

I think the concept of 'command responsibility' does apply to the KLA. It was organised and lead by people who were willing to exert their power. It is not enough to merely label it is a 'non-army'. If the A in KLA stands for 'Army', and if it bears weapons, then it is an Army. Its generals and other such leaders should stand as accountable as Mladic or any other general.
(Bob, 20 January 2011 13:39)

Bob,

If you read Marty's report in its entirety, you will find that Marty does NOT believe that there was a "Command Responsibility" within the KLA. However, if you have proof of your assertion, I'm sure Dick would like to hear from you.

"Does the concept of 'Command Responsibility' not have a role here?
(Bob, 19 January 2011 14:33) "

Probably not, in Marty's view - he specifically said in one of his interviews that the KLA wasn't a standard army with a single general at the top.

This is only very small excerpt of the interview. Where are the parts where Marty is furiours how his report is politicized by some and that he is in full support of the independence, as well as that he regards this process as finished? Apparantly, that decisive part has been left out.
(JohnC., 19 January 2011 11:03)

The same thing came into my mind also, where is the rest of the interview?
B92, selective publishing?

I'd say that point in his report is proved.
(Mister, 19 January 2011 23:13)

Mister: the best Marty can get is that KLA has killed some quislings and Milosevic’s mass murderers.

Personally I am only proud of that - all quislings of this world will burn in hell and if someone will try to protect their betrayal he will go down the same route.

Call this Albanian patriotism or whatever you want the bottom line is that I am right and you know I am. You wont have my tears for them.

Nice try Dick Marty. Within a month you will be exposed as a liar and fraud. He's trying to help his own skin, not going to work. You should have thought before lying.

Where's the evidence? Exactly, you have none.
(YT, 19 January 2011 15:10)

If he's ever exposed as having lied, then I'll post under the name "Ari Gold - Supporter of Hashim Thaci" for a full month after, every time I post here.

On the matter of 'command responsibility'.

As I understand it, a lot of Albanians were happy to live and deal with their Serb neighbours, but were not allowed to by other Albanians, who not only pressured the Serbs to leave, but also made life unbearable for the Albanians who did not share the same prejudices.

The concept of feud, and the concept of Mafia, not to mention the concept of force and the concept of ethnic cleansing - are all part of the concepts that drive some Albanians' behaviour. It seems unlikely to me therefore that those higher up the pile would tolerate activity further down the pile without a strong reaction.

I think the concept of 'command responsibility' does apply to the KLA. It was organised and lead by people who were willing to exert their power. It is not enough to merely label it is a 'non-army'. If the A in KLA stands for 'Army', and if it bears weapons, then it is an Army. Its generals and other such leaders should stand as accountable as Mladic or any other general.

The same thing came into my mind also, where is the rest of the interview?
B92, selective publishing?
(Odin, 19 January 2011 18:45)
--
I'd say it's not really that important what Marty's opinion is regarding the status of KiM. His report holds much more weight and if his opinion re: KiM's status gives him more credibility with ethnic Albanians and the West than I say great. Hopefully that will speed up an investigation and witness protection.

"The same thing came into my mind also, where is the rest of the interview?
B92, selective publishing?
(Odin, 19 January 2011 18:43) "

It's long, maybe they haven't had time to translate the entire thing yet.

If you're ok with Albanian, it's at http://www.albinfo.ch/ch-ballkani/aktuale/rr%C3%ABfimi-befasues-i-dick-marty-t-10975 and reprinted in Express http://www.gazetaexpress.com/?cid=1,15,45616.

"However, let’s not forget what Marty wrote in his report, let’s not forget what he wrote about hundreds of Serb’s being killed and slaughtered for their organs!!!! H

(Ilir, 19 January 2011 19:50) "

Read the report, the read the transcript of the interview: it's not Marty that talks about hundreds of people being killed for their organs - he mentions a "handful" at most. As for all that evidence that the Special Prosecutor has been talking about lately, about 500 people kidnapped for their kidneys - Marty says explicitly in the interview that none of his evidence was usable. Don't confuse what you read in the Serbian press with what Marty is actually saying.

good lord.

His spittle is falling apart already?

and this was serbias great hope and vindicator?

so what was so full about his agdenda that he couldnt show up at the european parliment? getting his hair done? or his conviction suddenly failed with the realization that he didnt have immunity in his pocket.

guess we know why he is suddenly flopping on the "facts" our serbian friends gleefully regurgitated and is now trying to reinvent what he "really" said.

And we are still waiting for his super secret magical mystery evidence.

Teller of Truth says:

"If you read Marty's report in its entirety, you will find that Marty does NOT believe that there was a "Command Responsibility" within the KLA."

And as Teller of Truth, plus all other Albanian experts here, has earlier stated that Marty hasn't got any proof or evidence to back up his beliefs, the opposite must be the truth. In other words, command responsibility applies to KLA.

"If the A in KLA stands for 'Army', and if it bears weapons, then it is an Army. Its generals and other such leaders should stand as accountable as Mladic or any other general.
(Bob, 20 January 2011 13:39) "

I'm not so sure about that - the prosecutors questioning witnesses at the Karadzic trial spend a lot of time demonstrating the degree of control he had over the troops. For example, when he approved a cease-fire, it held. You apparently have to have more than a name on an organizational chart to demonstrate command responsibility.

Re/ command responsibility:

the ICTY consider superior responsibility for both military and civilian organisations, so the KLA do not need to be considered as an army for its head to be liable for acts committed by underlings

In reply:

I think the concept of 'command responsibility' does apply to the KLA. If you call yourself an army, then you have to take the responsibilities that go with it.

However, I think a court should decide. This is not just something that can just be assumed to not be (or to be) the case.

On command responsibility: "However, I think a court should decide. This is not just something that can just be assumed to not be (or to be) the case.
(Bob, 21 January 2011 03:21) "

True - that's why I mentioned how it seems to be handled at the ICTY. I agree there needs to be an investigation, including an investigation of where the rumors - if that's actually what they were - began.

Nice try Dick Marty. Within a month you will be exposed as a liar and fraud. He's trying to help his own skin, not going to work. You should have thought before lying.

Where's the evidence? Exactly, you have none.

This is only very small excerpt of the interview. Where are the parts where Marty is furiours how his report is politicized by some and that he is in full support of the independence, as well as that he regards this process as finished? Apparantly, that decisive part has been left out.
(JohnC., 19 January 2011 11:03)
--
Oh, I thought Marty was on the Serbo-Russian payroll? Part of the anti-independence propagandist network? Hmm, seems not. Maybe he is just doing his job and exposing the mafia in KiM? Is that a possibility?

Now as for evidence, please be patient. Seselj has been in a Hague for 7 years and they still haven't produced anything. However, I'm confident that the goods will come up against the mafia in KiM much much sooner.

Thaci is mentioned thus: "We found that the 'Drenica Group' had as its chief – "or, to use the terminology of organised crime networks, its 'boss' – the renowned political operator and perhaps most internationally recognised personality of the KLA, Hashim Thaci".

No, the terminology to be used in mafia-like structures is 'godfather' :-)

Marty is woken up from from Serbo-Russian therapy and is sensing that ALL the world is seeing a different reality apart from those that are paying me.
(PRN, 19 January 2011 11:12)
--
Who is paying you PRN? Thaci?

Well, I'm glad you and other ethnic Albanians are finally warming up to accepting Marty. His report contains some very interesting information so the time for an investigation is approaching. I hope you are ready for the truth. It will be good for the region.

Haliti, Veseli, Syla, Limaj, and THAQI are the CULPRITS


Quoting from Marty's Report...

"Our first-hand sources alone have credibly implicated Haliti, Veseli, Syla and Limaj, alongside THAQI and other members of his inner circle, in having ordered – and in some cases personally overseen – assassinations, detentions, beatings and interrogations in various parts of Kosovo and, of particular interest to our work, in the context of KLA-led operations on the territory of Albania, between 1998 and 2000."

..."Specifically, IN OUR DETERMINATION, the leaders of the “Drenica Group” seem to bear the greatest responsibility for two sets of unacknowledged crimes described in this report: for running the KLA’s ad hoc network of detention facilities on the territory of Albania;34 and for determining the fate of the prisoners who were held in those facilities, including the many abducted civilians brought over the border into Albania from Kosovo."

..."But we can claim to HAVE GATHERED EVIDENCE COMPELLING ENOUGH TO DEMAND FORCEFULLY that the international bodies and the states concerned finally take every step to ensure that the truth is ascertained and the CULPRITS CLEARLY IDENTIFIED and called to account for their acts."

Pretty clear...there are names, gathered evidence and a FORCEFUL demand by Marty that the CULPRITS account for their acts.

When a criminal changes his story he shows that he's lying and hiding something. Dick Marty has started to change his story.

Marty mentions 'several cases' because he has to prove specifics, which is pretty hard when there has been an attempt to obliterate all evidence (even by the ICTY!) and terrorise witnesses.

By proving a few, he is not saying there were not hundreds of cases, he is just trying to do his job properly which will hopefully lead to justice for many more victims if the perpetrators are locked away.

I am amazed at the neanderthal attitudes on this site towards Dick Marty and his investigation. He was commissioned by the Council of Europe to do this report, and yet every day I read personal insults and threats aimed at him.

Everyone who is dismissing these charges out of hand, or who doesn't want an investigation to go ahead, should be ashamed of themselves. If there is no case to answer, then why all the frantic reactions?

Unlike Mrs. Carla Del Ponte I specify many aspects. I don’t speak about hundreds of illegal transplants, I speak about several cases,” Marty told Radio Television of Kosovo.


several cases for serbs on this site means 300! right?

Mr. Dick you have zero cases. I have seen your interview in its entirety, and you look like you made a big blunder. I don't know how you are going to come out of this mess!

“Thaci and these other 'Drenica Group' members are consistently named as 'key players' in intelligence reports on Kosovo’s mafia-like structures of organized crime. I have examined these diverse, voluminous reports with consternation and a sense of moral outrage,” Marty wrote...
--
And that is the whole point. This is much much larger than just organ trafficking. It involves people and drug trafficking, abductions, murder, terrorism and a host of other crimes.

As Marty admits, much of the information he has obtained comes from Western intelligence agents. The internationals are well aware of the situation and they have allowed it for some kind of perceived "stability".

It is the Serbians and even some ethnic Albanians who have been the victims of these heinous crimes. It is time to put an end to the criminal elements in KiM. Only then will the region start moving forward in terms of peace and prosperity. Reconciliation is key but that will be impossible if people continue to support the mafia structures present in the region.

The time for change is now.

I think Mr Dick Marty is backing down.

And we all know the reason why:

NO EVIDENCE!

But I remain with what I said before ...

If people has commited these crimes they should face justice. No question about that.

But to all of you Serbs: You are very good in didecting the splinter in our eye but seems to miss the whole beam in your eye.

Tung

Marty to cover his back does not say hundreds as the mediocre fantasist and novelist Del Ponte but he speaks about “several cases”.

Well my neighbour had a kidney failure and they had to remove it.

I am sure that you will find “several” Serbs that had similar problems and perhaps died – can you then link that to Kosova??? With your fantasy yes – but that is not a proof.

Marty presented a bombastic report with horrendous accusations which covered the front pages of the half world without providing single evidence.

It’s up to other to provide proofs he says.

Now we will wait for 2 or 3 more years with this horrendous accusation on our back so that in 3 years we will find someone who will say:

‘well Marty did not provide any evidence and neither we can since there are no evidences.’

And of course since the life is ironic this last part in 3 years time will be published in the 22nd page of perhaps some local journal.

Marty knows this thing very well;

those that commissioned this report know this very well;

we know this very well;

Thus Marty will never have my respect if he does not provide even a single evidence before that he accuses someone in front of the world about such horrendous crimes.

This is horrendous slandering and abuse of office- this is crime- and Marty will answer about this in front of a judge, a patriot or God- it doesn’t matter but he will have to answer on day and he knows this very well – thus his half U turns or even full U turns do not impress me at all.

"Marty: I didn’t directly accuse Thaci"

Marty is turning the tide. He said in the interview Serbian massive crimes are by far grave and important to investigate than anything else.

Marty is woken up from from Serbo-Russian therapy and is sensing that ALL the world is seeing a different reality apart from those that are paying me. However, nevertheless, he has dirtied himself so much that no water can clean him apart from the Hague tribunal.

no mr dick u have to give your facts for this bs . . report go fine some lawyer

This is only very small excerpt of the interview. Where are the parts where Marty is furiours how his report is politicized by some and that he is in full support of the independence, as well as that he regards this process as finished? Apparantly, that decisive part has been left out.

Well, something's going wrong here. The Albanian camp claims that "Dick Marty is backing down".

Backing down from where? From the absurd accusations of the Albanian camp: That he works for Serbia, that he works for Russia, that he is on the payroll of an anti-independence mafia, that he is a Göbbels-like figure, that his investigation is Nazi propaganda, etc.

If you read Marty's report you can see he has not rewritten it. It stands as it was. The misconception of Marty's report was created by the Albanians, Thaci being one of them. As most of Albanians commenting here, too.

The next mob attack will be against those Albanian individuals who have provided information to Marty's team. The mob will grab these people by their throats and call them "traitors".

It was inevitable that Marty's report would be used in politics, too. How else? And who did it the loudest? Correct answer: Mr. Thaci. Serbia naturally did this too, but with much more restrained voice. In fact with so restrained voice that Albanians commenting here got nervous and demanded stronger commitment from Serbia. I remember that especially johny was hot about the retrained reaction by Serbian state. So hot that I replied to him:

"johny, for 4 days you were anxiously crying why official Serbia didn't publicly comment on Marty's report. Now when it did, after cleverly following other institutions first engaging themselves into debate, you still aren't pleased but continue your cry in this way:

" '[...] as long as Serbia refuses to bring this to UNSC and other international investigative bodies [...] refusal on Serbia's part [...] can only be seen as an attempt to discredit Kosova through rumors [...]. If this was a sincere attempt to seek the truth Serbia would be at the UNSC seeking and forcefully requesting an investigation [...] ' "

"Your cry continues: 'Why are you and Serbia so afraid to take proactive actions?' "

Or have I got it all wrong?

Does the concept of 'Command Responsibility' not have a role here?

Four person have come up alive in which you and your buddies in COE claim to have been killed by UCK. We have tapes of Serbia trying to buy confessions from Kosovar minority. And now you're backing down? You're worthless...you will exposed!!!!!

Pretty clear...there are names, gathered evidence and a FORCEFUL demand by Marty that the CULPRITS account for their acts.
(Roger7, 19 January 2011)

Oh my Thaci was responsible for running detention centers in Albania and interrogations and assassinations?
Really? You are surprised that those things happen in a time of war? They led an uprising againts the Serbian army and risked their own lives. You bet collaborators will be assassinated and if captured alive detained and interrogated.

Now nowhere did I see Thaci's name implicated in "organ harvesting" like you Serbs claimed all along. And as for evidence we're still waiting.

"Pretty clear...there are names, gathered evidence and a FORCEFUL demand by Marty that the CULPRITS account for their acts."

What acts? EULEX and UNMIK have arrested people for killing 'spies,' that's not news, it never has been. Now the Dick has to show the evidence for organ trading or he is done.

On the matter of 'command responsibility'.

As I understand it, a lot of Albanians were happy to live and deal with their Serb neighbours, but were not allowed to by other Albanians, who not only pressured the Serbs to leave, but also made life unbearable for the Albanians who did not share the same prejudices.

The concept of feud, and the concept of Mafia, not to mention the concept of force and the concept of ethnic cleansing - are all part of the concepts that drive some Albanians' behaviour. It seems unlikely to me therefore that those higher up the pile would tolerate activity further down the pile without a strong reaction.

I think the concept of 'command responsibility' does apply to the KLA. It was organised and lead by people who were willing to exert their power. It is not enough to merely label it is a 'non-army'. If the A in KLA stands for 'Army', and if it bears weapons, then it is an Army. Its generals and other such leaders should stand as accountable as Mladic or any other general.

Maybe Marty didn't accuse Thaci directly of KLA crimes, but others have:
http://www.swans.com/library/art17/elich12.html

I think the concept of 'command responsibility' does apply to the KLA. It was organised and lead by people who were willing to exert their power. It is not enough to merely label it is a 'non-army'. If the A in KLA stands for 'Army', and if it bears weapons, then it is an Army. Its generals and other such leaders should stand as accountable as Mladic or any other general.
(Bob, 20 January 2011 13:39)

Bob,

If you read Marty's report in its entirety, you will find that Marty does NOT believe that there was a "Command Responsibility" within the KLA. However, if you have proof of your assertion, I'm sure Dick would like to hear from you.

If you take "albo" logic to its ultimate conclusions, then they would say hitler bore no command responsibility for the holocaust. Their logic would also exonerate milosevic, too. Unfortunately for them and their us supporters, the WESTERN allies introduced and have consistently enforced their Nurenberg principles of crimes against humanity, especially against Serb suspects. They won't be able to sweep this under the rug this time - I see the real showdown at the UN this fall with Serbia having the advantage this time. In the past, it has all been about the us bribing the world to play along with its "new world order". Guess what? They have run out of money.

What a nonsense. Of course Thaci didn't directly (=in person) take part in organ trade, just as Milosevic didn't kill anyone, directly.
And of course not the whole KLA with some 10,000 of persons took part, but only certyin groups.

This is not a 'change', it was clear for everyone since the beginning - well, except, obviously, for Kosovo Albanians who believe in the Thaci fairytales about the "anti-independence network" and "insult of all Albanians"

good lord.

His spittle is falling apart already?

and this was serbias great hope and vindicator?

so what was so full about his agdenda that he couldnt show up at the european parliment? getting his hair done? or his conviction suddenly failed with the realization that he didnt have immunity in his pocket.

guess we know why he is suddenly flopping on the "facts" our serbian friends gleefully regurgitated and is now trying to reinvent what he "really" said.

And we are still waiting for his super secret magical mystery evidence.

I'd say that point in his report is proved.
(Mister, 19 January 2011 23:13)

Mister: the best Marty can get is that KLA has killed some quislings and Milosevic’s mass murderers.

Personally I am only proud of that - all quislings of this world will burn in hell and if someone will try to protect their betrayal he will go down the same route.

Call this Albanian patriotism or whatever you want the bottom line is that I am right and you know I am. You wont have my tears for them.

Nice try Dick Marty. Within a month you will be exposed as a liar and fraud. He's trying to help his own skin, not going to work. You should have thought before lying.

Where's the evidence? Exactly, you have none.
(YT, 19 January 2011 15:10)

If he's ever exposed as having lied, then I'll post under the name "Ari Gold - Supporter of Hashim Thaci" for a full month after, every time I post here.

I think the West is now desperately trying to get some sucker to take the rap for Thaci regardless of whether he's guilty or not!

"Does the concept of 'Command Responsibility' not have a role here?
(Bob, 19 January 2011 14:33) "

Probably not, in Marty's view - he specifically said in one of his interviews that the KLA wasn't a standard army with a single general at the top.

Marty mentions 'several cases' because he has to prove specifics, which is pretty hard when there has been an attempt to obliterate all evidence (even by the ICTY!)
...
(kate, 19 January 2011 14:47)

And do you know who ordered the destruction of those things? Nobody else than the one who some years later claimed in her book that this happened: Carla del Ponte.

Does this make sense? Yes, but only if you don't want that somebody checks this accusations. Those proofs could very much tell the oposite story but Carla destroyed them and claims otherwise. This is such a sharade and I seriously doubt that this whole case will ever come to a satisfying end.

That says more than 1 million words.

This is only very small excerpt of the interview. Where are the parts where Marty is furiours how his report is politicized by some and that he is in full support of the independence, as well as that he regards this process as finished? Apparantly, that decisive part has been left out.
(JohnC., 19 January 2011 11:03)

The same thing came into my mind also, where is the rest of the interview?
B92, selective publishing?

Where are the parts where Marty is furiours how his report is politicized by some and that he is in full support of the independence, as well as that he regards this process as finished? Apparantly, that decisive part has been left out.
(JohnC., 19 January 2011 11:03)

-------------------------

So what if he says that? As an Albanian i do not want Marty “support” for Kosovo independence or his support for the KLA. True, there are many parts of the interview that aren’t showed.
However, let’s not forget what Marty wrote in his report, let’s not forget what he wrote about hundreds of Serb’s being killed and slaughtered for their organs!!!! How would you feel if someone writes that for you missing brother, dad or friend, and accuses an individual and a country about it (in this instance Thaci ). Of course B92 would concentrate on that part of the interview as these are peoples life we talking about and after all it is a Serb media!
Whatever Marty says it doesn’t matter, what’s matter are the evidences he claims he has. Based on his interview, my personal opinion is not changed. This bloke is a charlatan and if he doesn’t provide the evidences he should be made to face a jury in court!

This is only very small excerpt of the interview. Where are the parts where Marty is furiours how his report is politicized by some and that he is in full support of the independence, as well as that he regards this process as finished? Apparantly, that decisive part has been left out.
(JohnC., 19 January 2011 11:03)

The same thing came into my mind also, where is the rest of the interview?
B92, selective publishing?

"The same thing came into my mind also, where is the rest of the interview?
B92, selective publishing?
(Odin, 19 January 2011 18:43) "

It's long, maybe they haven't had time to translate the entire thing yet.

If you're ok with Albanian, it's at http://www.albinfo.ch/ch-ballkani/aktuale/rr%C3%ABfimi-befasues-i-dick-marty-t-10975 and reprinted in Express http://www.gazetaexpress.com/?cid=1,15,45616.

The same thing came into my mind also, where is the rest of the interview?
B92, selective publishing?
(Odin, 19 January 2011 18:45)
--
I'd say it's not really that important what Marty's opinion is regarding the status of KiM. His report holds much more weight and if his opinion re: KiM's status gives him more credibility with ethnic Albanians and the West than I say great. Hopefully that will speed up an investigation and witness protection.

Somebody is trying to kill the messenger. Marty only did what he was supposed to do, file a report and suggest an investigation. Everything in his report is true and everybody knows it. Thaci's supporters can squeal and squirm and call Marty on to the carpet as much as they want. There will be an investigation.

"However, let’s not forget what Marty wrote in his report, let’s not forget what he wrote about hundreds of Serb’s being killed and slaughtered for their organs!!!! H

(Ilir, 19 January 2011 19:50) "

Read the report, the read the transcript of the interview: it's not Marty that talks about hundreds of people being killed for their organs - he mentions a "handful" at most. As for all that evidence that the Special Prosecutor has been talking about lately, about 500 people kidnapped for their kidneys - Marty says explicitly in the interview that none of his evidence was usable. Don't confuse what you read in the Serbian press with what Marty is actually saying.

It is all there is black and white in his report. He has not backed down. It is peoples (albanians) perceptions of what he wrote that has changed. Through this whole saga over the last few months it has proved one thing. He was right to question the wall of albanian patriotism as a barrier to justice. We have threats to expose witnesses, claims of racism, serb/russian conspiracies and abuse and intimidation of an individual who is just doing his job.

I'd say that point in his report is proved.

Teller of Truth says:

"If you read Marty's report in its entirety, you will find that Marty does NOT believe that there was a "Command Responsibility" within the KLA."

And as Teller of Truth, plus all other Albanian experts here, has earlier stated that Marty hasn't got any proof or evidence to back up his beliefs, the opposite must be the truth. In other words, command responsibility applies to KLA.

"If the A in KLA stands for 'Army', and if it bears weapons, then it is an Army. Its generals and other such leaders should stand as accountable as Mladic or any other general.
(Bob, 20 January 2011 13:39) "

I'm not so sure about that - the prosecutors questioning witnesses at the Karadzic trial spend a lot of time demonstrating the degree of control he had over the troops. For example, when he approved a cease-fire, it held. You apparently have to have more than a name on an organizational chart to demonstrate command responsibility.

Re/ command responsibility:

the ICTY consider superior responsibility for both military and civilian organisations, so the KLA do not need to be considered as an army for its head to be liable for acts committed by underlings

In reply:

I think the concept of 'command responsibility' does apply to the KLA. If you call yourself an army, then you have to take the responsibilities that go with it.

However, I think a court should decide. This is not just something that can just be assumed to not be (or to be) the case.

On command responsibility: "However, I think a court should decide. This is not just something that can just be assumed to not be (or to be) the case.
(Bob, 21 January 2011 03:21) "

True - that's why I mentioned how it seems to be handled at the ICTY. I agree there needs to be an investigation, including an investigation of where the rumors - if that's actually what they were - began.