Tuesday, 18.01.2011.
10:11
A freed opposition politician is accusing Russian authorities of using dictatorial tactics against opposition figures.
Izvor: VOA
pre 13 godina
We can talk if you do 1) + 2).
If you don't - than your "French" respect will go the way your "Hungarian" did. :-)
You have one day.
(Ataman, 19 January 2011 20:44)
The time is over. Joe, you are "готов". If there is any "you" at all - you sick "henelist" phantasy. Who can't say "Cluny" or "Vezelay" or even "Santiago de Compostella". Both thumbs down - 100% idiot, even as a ghost an idiot.
pre 13 godina
As for church styles, I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove - builders traveled from country to country.
(Amer, 19 January 2011 22:24)
Of course they did, they were few in between and not cheap people.
A dark age ruler just could not afford the same builder what a Byzantine emperor could. The pictures prove - we can't talk about "dark age" in Russia in 11th-13th centuries. The dark age came 1239.
The rulers in Rus had:
- enough wealth to spend to hire a most likely first-class mason and let him organize a team
- were enough enlightened to get the above idea.
The traveling mason had to hire locals to do most of the job - the locals would learn. Later the same locals would act on their own - if the opportunity is there.
Staying with Russia - since that was the topic - the style you did see is not limited to one building. There are about 4-5 buildings (checked out: all got the "cathedral" status!) in the same area of ca. 100 mile radius, built within about 100 year period. It is impossible the same mason would do it - they lived longer, but not that long. Obviously locals learned fast.
If you move to other topics you see the same picture - until Mongol and Ottoman invasions did not came.
The "dark age" in the West was much earlier, since we speaking about 11th-13th Century that wasn't that dark in the West either.
pre 13 godina
""The original topic was that I wanted to prove, before the Mongol and Ottoman invasions the "East" was pretty much on the level with the West, in some aspects even ahead of it."
Ataman "
The Eastern Roman Empire outlasted the Western Empire by centuries, granted. The Dark Ages may not have been completely dark, but there was certainly a decline after the barbarian invasions. As for church styles, I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove - builders traveled from country to country. I thought Gracanica was supposed to have been the work of a Dalmatian builder, that's why I was interested in the stripes (or whatever the technical term is).
pre 13 godina
Your world seems to be reduced to the Vladimir-Fruska Gora - Kosovo triangle.
(Joe, 19 January 2011 19:47)
That's a mighty big triangle - add Ukraina, Georgia and Armenia to that.
Bigger than "my own WC made of gold" + "my own virus-infested PC where I troll on B92" + "map of Piripócs in Vas megye so I can keep up with the topic about Russia" triangle.
pre 13 godina
2) Tsk, tsk - let Pálinkás Joe suffer a bit and guess, where the heck in France it is - but here you have one, it's probably the most "striped" one:
(Ataman, 19 January 2011 17:03)
This Pálinkás Joe cannot be fooled I guess http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1link%C3%A1s_J%C3%B3zsef
pre 13 godina
Also for a true comparison you should visite the cathedrals of France, some 180 of it to see the light.
(Joe, 19 January 2011 19:47)
1) Name the "daddy" of all romanesque churches and cathedrals.
2) Name the two French ones from the links I sent to Amer.
We can talk if you do 1) + 2).
If you don't - than your "French" respect will go the way your "Hungarian" did. :-)
You have one day.
pre 13 godina
"The original topic was that I wanted to prove, before the Mongol and Ottoman invasions the "East" was pretty much on the level with the West, in some aspects even ahead of it."
Ataman
You have a complex of inferiority. You try to prove something desperately without success.
The East was never on the same level but if you think so that will not change the facts. Maybe you will lift the spirits of some readers on this site but you will not change the opinion of millions of people, who are knowledgeable with cathedrals in the West. They decided for themself.
As for the church of Vladimir and few others you generally advertize them several times per year. You should get a commission for that. The Russians should appreciate your dedication. But what you should really do is run your publicity in Western Europe ....convinc people there. See how far you get.
Also for a true comparison you should visite the cathedrals of France, some 180 of it to see the light. Your world seems to be reduced to the Vladimir-Fruska Gora - Kosovo triangle. Nice but as for churches, cathedrals there are more to it.
pre 13 godina
About the churches: I flunked :( I thought they must be in Croatia because of the striped one, which I thought was characteristic of the Dalmatian coast.
(Amer, 19 January 2011 03:24)
The original topic was that I wanted to prove, before the Mongol and Ottoman invasions the "East" was pretty much on the level with the West, in some aspects even ahead of it. (Also compare the law of Edward Longshanks with either the one of King Coloman or Yaroslav).
An other interesting thing many do not know - the names like Oleg, Yaroslav, Vladimir did sound a bit different at the time of Kievian Rus: Olaff, Jarislaffe, Waldemar.
If you are lucky, you even have a Russian prince inside of your computer: prince Harald "Синезуб" (Bluetooth). The words "Rus", "Russian", "Varengian", "Viking" were interchangeable. BTW: Рюрик = Hrjörik = Rodriguez if it's about the names.
--
I am very much against these "they are soooo special, they are Russians" thing. It is excellent for promoting tourist things (and charging more, LOL!). You know the "it's a mysterious Russian thing, so it's probably worth more money" thing. I have to disappoint, the people there have two hands and two legs and one head. The history was both very glorious and very difficult / very bloody.
"Freedom", "liberty" does mean precisely what you mean - just visit a few forums where countless NORMAL people communicate.
The country is much more open than it used to be few decades ago and people have relatives not only in "Baltic" countries but also in three most important countries: USA, Germany, Israel. I would say, who does not know these countries and does not know the differences is a dinosaur who spent the last 25 years in hibernation.
What is rejected by many (and not even by all!) is the policy of American administration. The policy by Russian administration is ALSO rejected, by even more. However, people support own political criminals against the American political criminals.
This is why I did say: would we see Jimmy Carter and Gorbi at the same time behind the steering wheel, you would wonder, what all theories about these "special" Russians do spin about.
---
Are there any striped churches in France or Germany? (I may get another chance at this test, decades from now. When I'll probably be dead, but it's best to be prepared for any eventuality.)
(Amer, 19 January 2011 03:24)
1) Tsk, tsk - don't say that. It's not a lucky thing. Just pack, "we" (here I can use plural) have a very nice web site - probably the most respected one. You can explore and one thousand "golden stars" will help you. My rank is well within first two hundred, so I try, too. ;-)
2) Tsk, tsk - let Pálinkás Joe suffer a bit and guess, where the heck in France it is - but here you have one, it's probably the most "striped" one:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4294/navejun04dc4375sar1000.jpg
Interesting stone patterns used here:
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6701/36376886.jpg
3) Again, the St. Demeter church in Vladimir - compare with French, the similarities are striking and we can't say one or the other were first or "better", it was THE time for such buildings.
This time the whole picture:
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=13443
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=13444
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=22489
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=22891
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=78545
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=5304
4) The "Catholicon" in Decani is one of the highest churches on Balkans, it IS the pride of Kosovo.
pre 13 godina
By the way your pictures of cathedrals have nothing to do with the subject. Anyway it is a nice hobby to see them. France has those more than any other country. They are truly amazing. The French can be proud of them.
(Joe, 16 January 2011 19:46)
--------
Well someone has to admit the obvious whitout partiality: in beauty they don't even come close to the beauty and magnificance of the French cathedrals.
If one day you have more than 100 - 200 euros to spend on a trip than visite France and her cathedrals and chateaux. That will open your eyes.
(Joe, 18 January 2011 23:22)
--------
Next time when my French friends come to visite us while we are on vacation in Western Hungary I will take them to Jak. They most likely will ask me "Ou est la cathedrale?" (where is the cathedral).
(Joe, 19 January 2011 01:31)
--------
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale... I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
ROFL - Joe, please just re-read your own writings in last three days you produced about Ják, Lébény, etc. and be your own judge. This was probably one of the most brilliant series on B92. Congratulations.
pre 13 godina
"At the end what I realize while there is that the Russian do not really want the type of democracy we have, but something in between, maybe hard to understand for a European who has never been there.
(The Swiss, 18 January 2011 22:22) "
That they don't want an American-style democracy is pretty clear from comments on Russian sites and like this one. (American democracy probably seems rather more brutal than the European one, I imagine, but I don't think they distinguish clearly between them.) Anyway: I remember that when I started learning Russian I was told that when Russians say "liberty" or "freedom" they mean something scary like "license" - the absence of all restraint. Somebody's got to be in charge, and he'd better be strong enough to maintain order. Law, maybe, too - if it doesn't interfere with order.
pre 13 godina
About the churches: I flunked :( I thought they must be in Croatia because of the striped one, which I thought was characteristic of the Dalmatian coast. Are there any striped churches in France or Germany? (I may get another chance at this test, decades from now. When I'll probably be dead, but it's best to be prepared for any eventuality.)
pre 13 godina
"As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Your comments get more childish by the day. You can't endure the thought that I saw the "cathedral" of Jak before you. I visite that area of Vas megye every year. My friends there will be pleased to hear that you updated it to a cathedral. So unofficially Hungary has now one versus 179 or 180 in France. Next time when my French friends come to visite us while we are on vacation in Western Hungary I will take them to Jak. They most likely will ask me "Ou est la cathedrale?" (where is the cathedral).
pre 13 godina
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
ÖÖÖÖÖ sir the new semester is about to start.Is it still possible to enter your course about french cathedrals or limit has already been reached?I want to be educated and not turn into a "pöffeteg".
(átbaszott sün, 18 January 2011 18:59)
See, Szemi - the problem is - as you correctly pointed out - with the mushrooms. But it needs to be corrected. It's probably not the "bimbós pöffeteg"
http://users1.ml.mindenkilapja.hu/users/kleinagnes/uploads/Pardsasvr2008080.JPG
I would rather guess the Tricholoma saponaceum, also known as "Szappanszagú Pereszke".
http://www.terra.hu/gomba/html/tricholoma_saponaceum.html
Józsimózsi ate too much of it, now he went down the path where Sarah Palin will finish one day. It is clearly warned:
"Nem ehetõ. Jellegzetes szaga, íze miatt más fajokkal nem téveszthetõ össze, bár változatos megjelenésû."
Fits 100%, but not sure how he got it in New York. It used to grow southwest of Kraków, in outskirts of Oœwiêcim.
pre 13 godina
" I did single-handedly "upgrade" the churches in Lébény, Ják, Vladimir and the catholicons in Decani, and Studenica to the "cathedral" status because of the beauty and significance."
Ataman
Well someone has to admit the obvious whitout partiality: in beauty they don't even come close to the beauty and magnificance of the French cathedrals.
If one day you have more than 100 - 200 euros to spend on a trip than visite France and her cathedrals and chateaux. That will open your eyes.
pre 13 godina
thing long enough to accomplish anything, or he simply doesn't have the power to do anything Putin isn't interested in. I kind of incline toward the latter.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
Fof having being living there 6 year, partly during Eltsin and then Putin time, I can tell you that whoever wants to change anything in Russia has to have an army backing him.
Unlike many foreigners I was working for a russian company and even inside of our own organization it was difficult to break the multi layers that the russian love to built. This system is bullet proof because if you want to change something you have to move layer after layer and they are usually so well connected that if you make the wrong move, the all structure collapses...
So Mr Medvedev certainly has very good intention but the web of bureaucrats is so dense that it will take many mandates to move it !
At the end what I realize while there is that the Russian do not really want the type of democracy we have, but something in between, maybe hard to understand for a European who has never been there.
pre 13 godina
So generally I disregard it like most of your links, I hardly click on any one because either they don't come up or they have no relation with the subject).
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Joe - do you see the word "cathedrale" or similar in this thread I would mention? If not, you DID click on the link I provided. You lied while trying your best to insult. You know exactly where is my posting, where the one of Szemi.
--
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale... I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Indeed - guilty as charged - but it has nothing to do with Jews, nice try tough. I did single-handedly "upgrade" the churches in Lébény, Ják, Vladimir and the catholicons in Decani, and Studenica to the "cathedral" status because of the beauty and significance. Pardon my action - it is much like Germans speak about the church in Ulm which is de-facto a "Münster" - but due the height and importance it got an unofficial "Katedral" status - pretty much like Stephansdom or Mátyás-templom.
Don't worry: despite some minor glitches in that thread you (again) single-handedly cornered everyone and won the prize brilliantly. Congratulations, but I do not know what is your prize. The "átbaszott sün" of Szemi describes more-less precisely the situation.
pre 13 godina
Medvedyev says all the right things, but either he has attention-deficit disorder and can't concentrate on one thing long enough to accomplish anything, or he simply doesn't have the power to do anything Putin isn't interested in. I kind of incline toward the latter.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
Perhaps you explain how you can have democracy for 220 years but still only have 2 parties ever in power. Isn’t that some sort of manipulation?
Didn’t I read recently that Obama also made a statement that the US economy was all right or does he have attention deficit disorder??
You are right. At this point both Russians and Western democraties are used to the idea that Russia is not democratic and maybe she will never be one. Everybody starts to accept the notion that "democratic Russia" sounds like an anomaly, it can't happen. It never existed. In this respect Russia is the same as many islamic countries. Their mentality is completely different from that of Western countries.
(Joe, 18 January 2011 17:02)
I’m curious to know what is your interpretation of the term democracy? I really am interested to know – a lot of people use this term.
pre 13 godina
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Time to refresh your memory. If ignorance would hurt, you would cry all day long.
pre 13 godina
"Joe, you just recently stated that Russia is France and they should be proud for their achievements. You said the same about Serbia and Hungary, too - so I guess, France is the biggest country on the planet. "
Ataman
What you write here does not make sense but it doesn't happen for the first time.
So generally I disregard it like most of your links, I hardly click on any one because either they don't come up or they have no relation with the subject).
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish I don't hold the mislabeling against you. Also I find it very funny that suddenly you try to show yourself as a Hungarian. Well the fact that I demasked you like a Hungarian on paper only (remember you stated on this site your desire to see Croatia and Serbia starting at "0" km stone in Budapest)had an affect on you. But making even thousands of pictures from churches will not alter your true image and attitude towards Hungarians. Goncz, who granted you citizenship isn't a Hungarian either (on paper only).
pre 13 godina
"kosovo is becoming a Belarus-style dictatorship"
pre 13 godina
yes, same here.
(Je¿ palinski, 18 January 2011 17:57)
ÖÖÖÖÖ sir the new semester is about to start.Is it still possible to enter your course about french cathedrals or limit has already been reached?I want to be educated and not turn into a "pöffeteg".
pre 13 godina
I dunno, I don't think that it is fair to compare belarus to russia. For example, while russia's villages are crippling while the oligarchs are getting ever richer, in belarus the villages are flourishing while there is no oligarch class.
Hence it is a totally different system. In belarus they have wealth distribution, while in Russia it's either you're at the top 10 percent, or you're living in misery.
pre 13 godina
"This isn't news, even Russians know that their country isn't democratic and free. Putin is going to run for President again in the future and he will "win".
Ian, UK
You are right. At this point both Russians and Western democraties are used to the idea that Russia is not democratic and maybe she will never be one. Everybody starts to accept the notion that "democratic Russia" sounds like an anomaly, it can't happen. It never existed. In this respect Russia is the same as many islamic countries. Their mentality is completely different from that of Western countries.
pre 13 godina
Their mentality is completely different from that of Western countries.
(Joe, 18 January 2011 17:02)
Joe, you just recently stated that Russia is France and they should be proud for their achievements. You said the same about Serbia and Hungary, too - so I guess, France is the biggest country on the planet.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=72132
Maybe you should learn more about the country you pretend to "defend" behind the keyboard such a clumsy way. Your post about Russia is not very convincing if you are THAT ignorant about Hungary and if you try to defend Giorgio Basta, the "butcher of Hungarians" just to make few over-zealous Albanian nationalists happy.
Let's not go into details about YOUR mentality - which matches nicely the one of Sarah Palin you praised so many times.
---
Or or maybe they assumed the propaganda was true, and that corruption was an essential part of capitalism, and that it really didn't do any harm, since the West was obviously thriving. With Yeltsin being vilified by the current regime I don't suppose we'll find out for a while.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
I can't answer this because I wasn't present. Regarding recent time probably Iuschenko of Ukriane is a good topic. There I can say a few interesting and shocking things, probably only the tip of iceberg.
----
I kind of incline toward the latter.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
yes, same here.
pre 13 godina
"Problem started with people demanding more democracy (Gorbi including) being way to naive. The tragedy of Planet Earth is that Gorbi and Jimmy Carter weren't presidents at the same time."
That might have worked ...
As for Yeltsin and the corruption: I've always wondered whether people were simply over-compensating for the decades of Communist propaganda about the evils of capitalism and naively believed that actually it was all quite straight-forward - no need to watch businessmen like a hawk, ready to pounce as soon as they get out of line. Or or maybe they assumed the propaganda was true, and that corruption was an essential part of capitalism, and that it really didn't do any harm, since the West was obviously thriving. With Yeltsin being vilified by the current regime I don't suppose we'll find out for a while.
"Today everyone got much worse than deserved. I have some respect towards Medvedyev - but even more questions.
(Ataman, 18 January 2011 14:18) "
Medvedyev says all the right things, but either he has attention-deficit disorder and can't concentrate on one thing long enough to accomplish anything, or he simply doesn't have the power to do anything Putin isn't interested in. I kind of incline toward the latter.
pre 13 godina
This isn't news, even Russians know that their country isn't democratic and free. Putin is going to run for President again in the future and he will "win".
(Ian, UK, 18 January 2011 13:09)
Угу - the problem is that at the moment we begin to speak about trivialities like what you mean - the "West" will ABUSE the dissent for own purposes and turn it to own economical and political advantage.
If you recall Gorbachyov: this what brings if someone negotiates honestly, with open mind and without asking anything in exchange, not even visa-free travel of Soviet citizens. Putin is the logical consequence of "western" greed and stupidity.
And as for Yeltsin - who lives through the Kosovo-crisis with more vodka in veins than blood and being drunk pees in front of welcome committee in NY just stepping out of airplane... that tells all.
Problem started with people demanding more democracy (Gorbi including) being way to naive. The tragedy of Planet Earth is that Gorbi and Jimmy Carter weren't presidents at the same time.
Today everyone got much worse than deserved. I have some respect towards Medvedyev - but even more questions.
pre 13 godina
This isn't news, even Russians know that their country isn't democratic and free. Putin is going to run for President again in the future and he will "win".
pre 13 godina
This isn't news, even Russians know that their country isn't democratic and free. Putin is going to run for President again in the future and he will "win".
pre 13 godina
This isn't news, even Russians know that their country isn't democratic and free. Putin is going to run for President again in the future and he will "win".
(Ian, UK, 18 January 2011 13:09)
Угу - the problem is that at the moment we begin to speak about trivialities like what you mean - the "West" will ABUSE the dissent for own purposes and turn it to own economical and political advantage.
If you recall Gorbachyov: this what brings if someone negotiates honestly, with open mind and without asking anything in exchange, not even visa-free travel of Soviet citizens. Putin is the logical consequence of "western" greed and stupidity.
And as for Yeltsin - who lives through the Kosovo-crisis with more vodka in veins than blood and being drunk pees in front of welcome committee in NY just stepping out of airplane... that tells all.
Problem started with people demanding more democracy (Gorbi including) being way to naive. The tragedy of Planet Earth is that Gorbi and Jimmy Carter weren't presidents at the same time.
Today everyone got much worse than deserved. I have some respect towards Medvedyev - but even more questions.
pre 13 godina
"This isn't news, even Russians know that their country isn't democratic and free. Putin is going to run for President again in the future and he will "win".
Ian, UK
You are right. At this point both Russians and Western democraties are used to the idea that Russia is not democratic and maybe she will never be one. Everybody starts to accept the notion that "democratic Russia" sounds like an anomaly, it can't happen. It never existed. In this respect Russia is the same as many islamic countries. Their mentality is completely different from that of Western countries.
pre 13 godina
"Problem started with people demanding more democracy (Gorbi including) being way to naive. The tragedy of Planet Earth is that Gorbi and Jimmy Carter weren't presidents at the same time."
That might have worked ...
As for Yeltsin and the corruption: I've always wondered whether people were simply over-compensating for the decades of Communist propaganda about the evils of capitalism and naively believed that actually it was all quite straight-forward - no need to watch businessmen like a hawk, ready to pounce as soon as they get out of line. Or or maybe they assumed the propaganda was true, and that corruption was an essential part of capitalism, and that it really didn't do any harm, since the West was obviously thriving. With Yeltsin being vilified by the current regime I don't suppose we'll find out for a while.
"Today everyone got much worse than deserved. I have some respect towards Medvedyev - but even more questions.
(Ataman, 18 January 2011 14:18) "
Medvedyev says all the right things, but either he has attention-deficit disorder and can't concentrate on one thing long enough to accomplish anything, or he simply doesn't have the power to do anything Putin isn't interested in. I kind of incline toward the latter.
pre 13 godina
Their mentality is completely different from that of Western countries.
(Joe, 18 January 2011 17:02)
Joe, you just recently stated that Russia is France and they should be proud for their achievements. You said the same about Serbia and Hungary, too - so I guess, France is the biggest country on the planet.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=72132
Maybe you should learn more about the country you pretend to "defend" behind the keyboard such a clumsy way. Your post about Russia is not very convincing if you are THAT ignorant about Hungary and if you try to defend Giorgio Basta, the "butcher of Hungarians" just to make few over-zealous Albanian nationalists happy.
Let's not go into details about YOUR mentality - which matches nicely the one of Sarah Palin you praised so many times.
---
Or or maybe they assumed the propaganda was true, and that corruption was an essential part of capitalism, and that it really didn't do any harm, since the West was obviously thriving. With Yeltsin being vilified by the current regime I don't suppose we'll find out for a while.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
I can't answer this because I wasn't present. Regarding recent time probably Iuschenko of Ukriane is a good topic. There I can say a few interesting and shocking things, probably only the tip of iceberg.
----
I kind of incline toward the latter.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
yes, same here.
pre 13 godina
"Joe, you just recently stated that Russia is France and they should be proud for their achievements. You said the same about Serbia and Hungary, too - so I guess, France is the biggest country on the planet. "
Ataman
What you write here does not make sense but it doesn't happen for the first time.
So generally I disregard it like most of your links, I hardly click on any one because either they don't come up or they have no relation with the subject).
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish I don't hold the mislabeling against you. Also I find it very funny that suddenly you try to show yourself as a Hungarian. Well the fact that I demasked you like a Hungarian on paper only (remember you stated on this site your desire to see Croatia and Serbia starting at "0" km stone in Budapest)had an affect on you. But making even thousands of pictures from churches will not alter your true image and attitude towards Hungarians. Goncz, who granted you citizenship isn't a Hungarian either (on paper only).
pre 13 godina
I dunno, I don't think that it is fair to compare belarus to russia. For example, while russia's villages are crippling while the oligarchs are getting ever richer, in belarus the villages are flourishing while there is no oligarch class.
Hence it is a totally different system. In belarus they have wealth distribution, while in Russia it's either you're at the top 10 percent, or you're living in misery.
pre 13 godina
"kosovo is becoming a Belarus-style dictatorship"
pre 13 godina
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Time to refresh your memory. If ignorance would hurt, you would cry all day long.
pre 13 godina
yes, same here.
(Je¿ palinski, 18 January 2011 17:57)
ÖÖÖÖÖ sir the new semester is about to start.Is it still possible to enter your course about french cathedrals or limit has already been reached?I want to be educated and not turn into a "pöffeteg".
pre 13 godina
So generally I disregard it like most of your links, I hardly click on any one because either they don't come up or they have no relation with the subject).
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Joe - do you see the word "cathedrale" or similar in this thread I would mention? If not, you DID click on the link I provided. You lied while trying your best to insult. You know exactly where is my posting, where the one of Szemi.
--
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale... I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Indeed - guilty as charged - but it has nothing to do with Jews, nice try tough. I did single-handedly "upgrade" the churches in Lébény, Ják, Vladimir and the catholicons in Decani, and Studenica to the "cathedral" status because of the beauty and significance. Pardon my action - it is much like Germans speak about the church in Ulm which is de-facto a "Münster" - but due the height and importance it got an unofficial "Katedral" status - pretty much like Stephansdom or Mátyás-templom.
Don't worry: despite some minor glitches in that thread you (again) single-handedly cornered everyone and won the prize brilliantly. Congratulations, but I do not know what is your prize. The "átbaszott sün" of Szemi describes more-less precisely the situation.
pre 13 godina
"As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Your comments get more childish by the day. You can't endure the thought that I saw the "cathedral" of Jak before you. I visite that area of Vas megye every year. My friends there will be pleased to hear that you updated it to a cathedral. So unofficially Hungary has now one versus 179 or 180 in France. Next time when my French friends come to visite us while we are on vacation in Western Hungary I will take them to Jak. They most likely will ask me "Ou est la cathedrale?" (where is the cathedral).
pre 13 godina
"At the end what I realize while there is that the Russian do not really want the type of democracy we have, but something in between, maybe hard to understand for a European who has never been there.
(The Swiss, 18 January 2011 22:22) "
That they don't want an American-style democracy is pretty clear from comments on Russian sites and like this one. (American democracy probably seems rather more brutal than the European one, I imagine, but I don't think they distinguish clearly between them.) Anyway: I remember that when I started learning Russian I was told that when Russians say "liberty" or "freedom" they mean something scary like "license" - the absence of all restraint. Somebody's got to be in charge, and he'd better be strong enough to maintain order. Law, maybe, too - if it doesn't interfere with order.
pre 13 godina
""The original topic was that I wanted to prove, before the Mongol and Ottoman invasions the "East" was pretty much on the level with the West, in some aspects even ahead of it."
Ataman "
The Eastern Roman Empire outlasted the Western Empire by centuries, granted. The Dark Ages may not have been completely dark, but there was certainly a decline after the barbarian invasions. As for church styles, I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove - builders traveled from country to country. I thought Gracanica was supposed to have been the work of a Dalmatian builder, that's why I was interested in the stripes (or whatever the technical term is).
pre 13 godina
" I did single-handedly "upgrade" the churches in Lébény, Ják, Vladimir and the catholicons in Decani, and Studenica to the "cathedral" status because of the beauty and significance."
Ataman
Well someone has to admit the obvious whitout partiality: in beauty they don't even come close to the beauty and magnificance of the French cathedrals.
If one day you have more than 100 - 200 euros to spend on a trip than visite France and her cathedrals and chateaux. That will open your eyes.
pre 13 godina
"The original topic was that I wanted to prove, before the Mongol and Ottoman invasions the "East" was pretty much on the level with the West, in some aspects even ahead of it."
Ataman
You have a complex of inferiority. You try to prove something desperately without success.
The East was never on the same level but if you think so that will not change the facts. Maybe you will lift the spirits of some readers on this site but you will not change the opinion of millions of people, who are knowledgeable with cathedrals in the West. They decided for themself.
As for the church of Vladimir and few others you generally advertize them several times per year. You should get a commission for that. The Russians should appreciate your dedication. But what you should really do is run your publicity in Western Europe ....convinc people there. See how far you get.
Also for a true comparison you should visite the cathedrals of France, some 180 of it to see the light. Your world seems to be reduced to the Vladimir-Fruska Gora - Kosovo triangle. Nice but as for churches, cathedrals there are more to it.
pre 13 godina
thing long enough to accomplish anything, or he simply doesn't have the power to do anything Putin isn't interested in. I kind of incline toward the latter.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
Fof having being living there 6 year, partly during Eltsin and then Putin time, I can tell you that whoever wants to change anything in Russia has to have an army backing him.
Unlike many foreigners I was working for a russian company and even inside of our own organization it was difficult to break the multi layers that the russian love to built. This system is bullet proof because if you want to change something you have to move layer after layer and they are usually so well connected that if you make the wrong move, the all structure collapses...
So Mr Medvedev certainly has very good intention but the web of bureaucrats is so dense that it will take many mandates to move it !
At the end what I realize while there is that the Russian do not really want the type of democracy we have, but something in between, maybe hard to understand for a European who has never been there.
pre 13 godina
About the churches: I flunked :( I thought they must be in Croatia because of the striped one, which I thought was characteristic of the Dalmatian coast. Are there any striped churches in France or Germany? (I may get another chance at this test, decades from now. When I'll probably be dead, but it's best to be prepared for any eventuality.)
pre 13 godina
Medvedyev says all the right things, but either he has attention-deficit disorder and can't concentrate on one thing long enough to accomplish anything, or he simply doesn't have the power to do anything Putin isn't interested in. I kind of incline toward the latter.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
Perhaps you explain how you can have democracy for 220 years but still only have 2 parties ever in power. Isn’t that some sort of manipulation?
Didn’t I read recently that Obama also made a statement that the US economy was all right or does he have attention deficit disorder??
You are right. At this point both Russians and Western democraties are used to the idea that Russia is not democratic and maybe she will never be one. Everybody starts to accept the notion that "democratic Russia" sounds like an anomaly, it can't happen. It never existed. In this respect Russia is the same as many islamic countries. Their mentality is completely different from that of Western countries.
(Joe, 18 January 2011 17:02)
I’m curious to know what is your interpretation of the term democracy? I really am interested to know – a lot of people use this term.
pre 13 godina
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
ÖÖÖÖÖ sir the new semester is about to start.Is it still possible to enter your course about french cathedrals or limit has already been reached?I want to be educated and not turn into a "pöffeteg".
(átbaszott sün, 18 January 2011 18:59)
See, Szemi - the problem is - as you correctly pointed out - with the mushrooms. But it needs to be corrected. It's probably not the "bimbós pöffeteg"
http://users1.ml.mindenkilapja.hu/users/kleinagnes/uploads/Pardsasvr2008080.JPG
I would rather guess the Tricholoma saponaceum, also known as "Szappanszagú Pereszke".
http://www.terra.hu/gomba/html/tricholoma_saponaceum.html
Józsimózsi ate too much of it, now he went down the path where Sarah Palin will finish one day. It is clearly warned:
"Nem ehetõ. Jellegzetes szaga, íze miatt más fajokkal nem téveszthetõ össze, bár változatos megjelenésû."
Fits 100%, but not sure how he got it in New York. It used to grow southwest of Kraków, in outskirts of Oœwiêcim.
pre 13 godina
By the way your pictures of cathedrals have nothing to do with the subject. Anyway it is a nice hobby to see them. France has those more than any other country. They are truly amazing. The French can be proud of them.
(Joe, 16 January 2011 19:46)
--------
Well someone has to admit the obvious whitout partiality: in beauty they don't even come close to the beauty and magnificance of the French cathedrals.
If one day you have more than 100 - 200 euros to spend on a trip than visite France and her cathedrals and chateaux. That will open your eyes.
(Joe, 18 January 2011 23:22)
--------
Next time when my French friends come to visite us while we are on vacation in Western Hungary I will take them to Jak. They most likely will ask me "Ou est la cathedrale?" (where is the cathedral).
(Joe, 19 January 2011 01:31)
--------
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale... I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
ROFL - Joe, please just re-read your own writings in last three days you produced about Ják, Lébény, etc. and be your own judge. This was probably one of the most brilliant series on B92. Congratulations.
pre 13 godina
About the churches: I flunked :( I thought they must be in Croatia because of the striped one, which I thought was characteristic of the Dalmatian coast.
(Amer, 19 January 2011 03:24)
The original topic was that I wanted to prove, before the Mongol and Ottoman invasions the "East" was pretty much on the level with the West, in some aspects even ahead of it. (Also compare the law of Edward Longshanks with either the one of King Coloman or Yaroslav).
An other interesting thing many do not know - the names like Oleg, Yaroslav, Vladimir did sound a bit different at the time of Kievian Rus: Olaff, Jarislaffe, Waldemar.
If you are lucky, you even have a Russian prince inside of your computer: prince Harald "Синезуб" (Bluetooth). The words "Rus", "Russian", "Varengian", "Viking" were interchangeable. BTW: Рюрик = Hrjörik = Rodriguez if it's about the names.
--
I am very much against these "they are soooo special, they are Russians" thing. It is excellent for promoting tourist things (and charging more, LOL!). You know the "it's a mysterious Russian thing, so it's probably worth more money" thing. I have to disappoint, the people there have two hands and two legs and one head. The history was both very glorious and very difficult / very bloody.
"Freedom", "liberty" does mean precisely what you mean - just visit a few forums where countless NORMAL people communicate.
The country is much more open than it used to be few decades ago and people have relatives not only in "Baltic" countries but also in three most important countries: USA, Germany, Israel. I would say, who does not know these countries and does not know the differences is a dinosaur who spent the last 25 years in hibernation.
What is rejected by many (and not even by all!) is the policy of American administration. The policy by Russian administration is ALSO rejected, by even more. However, people support own political criminals against the American political criminals.
This is why I did say: would we see Jimmy Carter and Gorbi at the same time behind the steering wheel, you would wonder, what all theories about these "special" Russians do spin about.
---
Are there any striped churches in France or Germany? (I may get another chance at this test, decades from now. When I'll probably be dead, but it's best to be prepared for any eventuality.)
(Amer, 19 January 2011 03:24)
1) Tsk, tsk - don't say that. It's not a lucky thing. Just pack, "we" (here I can use plural) have a very nice web site - probably the most respected one. You can explore and one thousand "golden stars" will help you. My rank is well within first two hundred, so I try, too. ;-)
2) Tsk, tsk - let Pálinkás Joe suffer a bit and guess, where the heck in France it is - but here you have one, it's probably the most "striped" one:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4294/navejun04dc4375sar1000.jpg
Interesting stone patterns used here:
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6701/36376886.jpg
3) Again, the St. Demeter church in Vladimir - compare with French, the similarities are striking and we can't say one or the other were first or "better", it was THE time for such buildings.
This time the whole picture:
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=13443
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=13444
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=22489
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=22891
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=78545
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=5304
4) The "Catholicon" in Decani is one of the highest churches on Balkans, it IS the pride of Kosovo.
pre 13 godina
2) Tsk, tsk - let Pálinkás Joe suffer a bit and guess, where the heck in France it is - but here you have one, it's probably the most "striped" one:
(Ataman, 19 January 2011 17:03)
This Pálinkás Joe cannot be fooled I guess http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1link%C3%A1s_J%C3%B3zsef
pre 13 godina
Also for a true comparison you should visite the cathedrals of France, some 180 of it to see the light.
(Joe, 19 January 2011 19:47)
1) Name the "daddy" of all romanesque churches and cathedrals.
2) Name the two French ones from the links I sent to Amer.
We can talk if you do 1) + 2).
If you don't - than your "French" respect will go the way your "Hungarian" did. :-)
You have one day.
pre 13 godina
Your world seems to be reduced to the Vladimir-Fruska Gora - Kosovo triangle.
(Joe, 19 January 2011 19:47)
That's a mighty big triangle - add Ukraina, Georgia and Armenia to that.
Bigger than "my own WC made of gold" + "my own virus-infested PC where I troll on B92" + "map of Piripócs in Vas megye so I can keep up with the topic about Russia" triangle.
pre 13 godina
As for church styles, I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove - builders traveled from country to country.
(Amer, 19 January 2011 22:24)
Of course they did, they were few in between and not cheap people.
A dark age ruler just could not afford the same builder what a Byzantine emperor could. The pictures prove - we can't talk about "dark age" in Russia in 11th-13th centuries. The dark age came 1239.
The rulers in Rus had:
- enough wealth to spend to hire a most likely first-class mason and let him organize a team
- were enough enlightened to get the above idea.
The traveling mason had to hire locals to do most of the job - the locals would learn. Later the same locals would act on their own - if the opportunity is there.
Staying with Russia - since that was the topic - the style you did see is not limited to one building. There are about 4-5 buildings (checked out: all got the "cathedral" status!) in the same area of ca. 100 mile radius, built within about 100 year period. It is impossible the same mason would do it - they lived longer, but not that long. Obviously locals learned fast.
If you move to other topics you see the same picture - until Mongol and Ottoman invasions did not came.
The "dark age" in the West was much earlier, since we speaking about 11th-13th Century that wasn't that dark in the West either.
pre 13 godina
We can talk if you do 1) + 2).
If you don't - than your "French" respect will go the way your "Hungarian" did. :-)
You have one day.
(Ataman, 19 January 2011 20:44)
The time is over. Joe, you are "готов". If there is any "you" at all - you sick "henelist" phantasy. Who can't say "Cluny" or "Vezelay" or even "Santiago de Compostella". Both thumbs down - 100% idiot, even as a ghost an idiot.
pre 13 godina
"This isn't news, even Russians know that their country isn't democratic and free. Putin is going to run for President again in the future and he will "win".
Ian, UK
You are right. At this point both Russians and Western democraties are used to the idea that Russia is not democratic and maybe she will never be one. Everybody starts to accept the notion that "democratic Russia" sounds like an anomaly, it can't happen. It never existed. In this respect Russia is the same as many islamic countries. Their mentality is completely different from that of Western countries.
pre 13 godina
This isn't news, even Russians know that their country isn't democratic and free. Putin is going to run for President again in the future and he will "win".
pre 13 godina
This isn't news, even Russians know that their country isn't democratic and free. Putin is going to run for President again in the future and he will "win".
(Ian, UK, 18 January 2011 13:09)
Угу - the problem is that at the moment we begin to speak about trivialities like what you mean - the "West" will ABUSE the dissent for own purposes and turn it to own economical and political advantage.
If you recall Gorbachyov: this what brings if someone negotiates honestly, with open mind and without asking anything in exchange, not even visa-free travel of Soviet citizens. Putin is the logical consequence of "western" greed and stupidity.
And as for Yeltsin - who lives through the Kosovo-crisis with more vodka in veins than blood and being drunk pees in front of welcome committee in NY just stepping out of airplane... that tells all.
Problem started with people demanding more democracy (Gorbi including) being way to naive. The tragedy of Planet Earth is that Gorbi and Jimmy Carter weren't presidents at the same time.
Today everyone got much worse than deserved. I have some respect towards Medvedyev - but even more questions.
pre 13 godina
"kosovo is becoming a Belarus-style dictatorship"
pre 13 godina
"Joe, you just recently stated that Russia is France and they should be proud for their achievements. You said the same about Serbia and Hungary, too - so I guess, France is the biggest country on the planet. "
Ataman
What you write here does not make sense but it doesn't happen for the first time.
So generally I disregard it like most of your links, I hardly click on any one because either they don't come up or they have no relation with the subject).
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish I don't hold the mislabeling against you. Also I find it very funny that suddenly you try to show yourself as a Hungarian. Well the fact that I demasked you like a Hungarian on paper only (remember you stated on this site your desire to see Croatia and Serbia starting at "0" km stone in Budapest)had an affect on you. But making even thousands of pictures from churches will not alter your true image and attitude towards Hungarians. Goncz, who granted you citizenship isn't a Hungarian either (on paper only).
pre 13 godina
Their mentality is completely different from that of Western countries.
(Joe, 18 January 2011 17:02)
Joe, you just recently stated that Russia is France and they should be proud for their achievements. You said the same about Serbia and Hungary, too - so I guess, France is the biggest country on the planet.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=72132
Maybe you should learn more about the country you pretend to "defend" behind the keyboard such a clumsy way. Your post about Russia is not very convincing if you are THAT ignorant about Hungary and if you try to defend Giorgio Basta, the "butcher of Hungarians" just to make few over-zealous Albanian nationalists happy.
Let's not go into details about YOUR mentality - which matches nicely the one of Sarah Palin you praised so many times.
---
Or or maybe they assumed the propaganda was true, and that corruption was an essential part of capitalism, and that it really didn't do any harm, since the West was obviously thriving. With Yeltsin being vilified by the current regime I don't suppose we'll find out for a while.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
I can't answer this because I wasn't present. Regarding recent time probably Iuschenko of Ukriane is a good topic. There I can say a few interesting and shocking things, probably only the tip of iceberg.
----
I kind of incline toward the latter.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
yes, same here.
pre 13 godina
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Time to refresh your memory. If ignorance would hurt, you would cry all day long.
pre 13 godina
About the churches: I flunked :( I thought they must be in Croatia because of the striped one, which I thought was characteristic of the Dalmatian coast.
(Amer, 19 January 2011 03:24)
The original topic was that I wanted to prove, before the Mongol and Ottoman invasions the "East" was pretty much on the level with the West, in some aspects even ahead of it. (Also compare the law of Edward Longshanks with either the one of King Coloman or Yaroslav).
An other interesting thing many do not know - the names like Oleg, Yaroslav, Vladimir did sound a bit different at the time of Kievian Rus: Olaff, Jarislaffe, Waldemar.
If you are lucky, you even have a Russian prince inside of your computer: prince Harald "Синезуб" (Bluetooth). The words "Rus", "Russian", "Varengian", "Viking" were interchangeable. BTW: Рюрик = Hrjörik = Rodriguez if it's about the names.
--
I am very much against these "they are soooo special, they are Russians" thing. It is excellent for promoting tourist things (and charging more, LOL!). You know the "it's a mysterious Russian thing, so it's probably worth more money" thing. I have to disappoint, the people there have two hands and two legs and one head. The history was both very glorious and very difficult / very bloody.
"Freedom", "liberty" does mean precisely what you mean - just visit a few forums where countless NORMAL people communicate.
The country is much more open than it used to be few decades ago and people have relatives not only in "Baltic" countries but also in three most important countries: USA, Germany, Israel. I would say, who does not know these countries and does not know the differences is a dinosaur who spent the last 25 years in hibernation.
What is rejected by many (and not even by all!) is the policy of American administration. The policy by Russian administration is ALSO rejected, by even more. However, people support own political criminals against the American political criminals.
This is why I did say: would we see Jimmy Carter and Gorbi at the same time behind the steering wheel, you would wonder, what all theories about these "special" Russians do spin about.
---
Are there any striped churches in France or Germany? (I may get another chance at this test, decades from now. When I'll probably be dead, but it's best to be prepared for any eventuality.)
(Amer, 19 January 2011 03:24)
1) Tsk, tsk - don't say that. It's not a lucky thing. Just pack, "we" (here I can use plural) have a very nice web site - probably the most respected one. You can explore and one thousand "golden stars" will help you. My rank is well within first two hundred, so I try, too. ;-)
2) Tsk, tsk - let Pálinkás Joe suffer a bit and guess, where the heck in France it is - but here you have one, it's probably the most "striped" one:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4294/navejun04dc4375sar1000.jpg
Interesting stone patterns used here:
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6701/36376886.jpg
3) Again, the St. Demeter church in Vladimir - compare with French, the similarities are striking and we can't say one or the other were first or "better", it was THE time for such buildings.
This time the whole picture:
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=13443
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=13444
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=22489
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=22891
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=78545
http://sobory.ru/photo/index.html?photo=5304
4) The "Catholicon" in Decani is one of the highest churches on Balkans, it IS the pride of Kosovo.
pre 13 godina
So generally I disregard it like most of your links, I hardly click on any one because either they don't come up or they have no relation with the subject).
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Joe - do you see the word "cathedrale" or similar in this thread I would mention? If not, you DID click on the link I provided. You lied while trying your best to insult. You know exactly where is my posting, where the one of Szemi.
--
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale... I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Indeed - guilty as charged - but it has nothing to do with Jews, nice try tough. I did single-handedly "upgrade" the churches in Lébény, Ják, Vladimir and the catholicons in Decani, and Studenica to the "cathedral" status because of the beauty and significance. Pardon my action - it is much like Germans speak about the church in Ulm which is de-facto a "Münster" - but due the height and importance it got an unofficial "Katedral" status - pretty much like Stephansdom or Mátyás-templom.
Don't worry: despite some minor glitches in that thread you (again) single-handedly cornered everyone and won the prize brilliantly. Congratulations, but I do not know what is your prize. The "átbaszott sün" of Szemi describes more-less precisely the situation.
pre 13 godina
thing long enough to accomplish anything, or he simply doesn't have the power to do anything Putin isn't interested in. I kind of incline toward the latter.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
Fof having being living there 6 year, partly during Eltsin and then Putin time, I can tell you that whoever wants to change anything in Russia has to have an army backing him.
Unlike many foreigners I was working for a russian company and even inside of our own organization it was difficult to break the multi layers that the russian love to built. This system is bullet proof because if you want to change something you have to move layer after layer and they are usually so well connected that if you make the wrong move, the all structure collapses...
So Mr Medvedev certainly has very good intention but the web of bureaucrats is so dense that it will take many mandates to move it !
At the end what I realize while there is that the Russian do not really want the type of democracy we have, but something in between, maybe hard to understand for a European who has never been there.
pre 13 godina
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
ÖÖÖÖÖ sir the new semester is about to start.Is it still possible to enter your course about french cathedrals or limit has already been reached?I want to be educated and not turn into a "pöffeteg".
(átbaszott sün, 18 January 2011 18:59)
See, Szemi - the problem is - as you correctly pointed out - with the mushrooms. But it needs to be corrected. It's probably not the "bimbós pöffeteg"
http://users1.ml.mindenkilapja.hu/users/kleinagnes/uploads/Pardsasvr2008080.JPG
I would rather guess the Tricholoma saponaceum, also known as "Szappanszagú Pereszke".
http://www.terra.hu/gomba/html/tricholoma_saponaceum.html
Józsimózsi ate too much of it, now he went down the path where Sarah Palin will finish one day. It is clearly warned:
"Nem ehetõ. Jellegzetes szaga, íze miatt más fajokkal nem téveszthetõ össze, bár változatos megjelenésû."
Fits 100%, but not sure how he got it in New York. It used to grow southwest of Kraków, in outskirts of Oœwiêcim.
pre 13 godina
By the way your pictures of cathedrals have nothing to do with the subject. Anyway it is a nice hobby to see them. France has those more than any other country. They are truly amazing. The French can be proud of them.
(Joe, 16 January 2011 19:46)
--------
Well someone has to admit the obvious whitout partiality: in beauty they don't even come close to the beauty and magnificance of the French cathedrals.
If one day you have more than 100 - 200 euros to spend on a trip than visite France and her cathedrals and chateaux. That will open your eyes.
(Joe, 18 January 2011 23:22)
--------
Next time when my French friends come to visite us while we are on vacation in Western Hungary I will take them to Jak. They most likely will ask me "Ou est la cathedrale?" (where is the cathedral).
(Joe, 19 January 2011 01:31)
--------
As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale... I visited it in 1972..but since you are Jewish
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
ROFL - Joe, please just re-read your own writings in last three days you produced about Ják, Lébény, etc. and be your own judge. This was probably one of the most brilliant series on B92. Congratulations.
pre 13 godina
"Problem started with people demanding more democracy (Gorbi including) being way to naive. The tragedy of Planet Earth is that Gorbi and Jimmy Carter weren't presidents at the same time."
That might have worked ...
As for Yeltsin and the corruption: I've always wondered whether people were simply over-compensating for the decades of Communist propaganda about the evils of capitalism and naively believed that actually it was all quite straight-forward - no need to watch businessmen like a hawk, ready to pounce as soon as they get out of line. Or or maybe they assumed the propaganda was true, and that corruption was an essential part of capitalism, and that it really didn't do any harm, since the West was obviously thriving. With Yeltsin being vilified by the current regime I don't suppose we'll find out for a while.
"Today everyone got much worse than deserved. I have some respect towards Medvedyev - but even more questions.
(Ataman, 18 January 2011 14:18) "
Medvedyev says all the right things, but either he has attention-deficit disorder and can't concentrate on one thing long enough to accomplish anything, or he simply doesn't have the power to do anything Putin isn't interested in. I kind of incline toward the latter.
pre 13 godina
yes, same here.
(Je¿ palinski, 18 January 2011 17:57)
ÖÖÖÖÖ sir the new semester is about to start.Is it still possible to enter your course about french cathedrals or limit has already been reached?I want to be educated and not turn into a "pöffeteg".
pre 13 godina
Medvedyev says all the right things, but either he has attention-deficit disorder and can't concentrate on one thing long enough to accomplish anything, or he simply doesn't have the power to do anything Putin isn't interested in. I kind of incline toward the latter.
(Amer, 18 January 2011 16:54)
Perhaps you explain how you can have democracy for 220 years but still only have 2 parties ever in power. Isn’t that some sort of manipulation?
Didn’t I read recently that Obama also made a statement that the US economy was all right or does he have attention deficit disorder??
You are right. At this point both Russians and Western democraties are used to the idea that Russia is not democratic and maybe she will never be one. Everybody starts to accept the notion that "democratic Russia" sounds like an anomaly, it can't happen. It never existed. In this respect Russia is the same as many islamic countries. Their mentality is completely different from that of Western countries.
(Joe, 18 January 2011 17:02)
I’m curious to know what is your interpretation of the term democracy? I really am interested to know – a lot of people use this term.
pre 13 godina
" I did single-handedly "upgrade" the churches in Lébény, Ják, Vladimir and the catholicons in Decani, and Studenica to the "cathedral" status because of the beauty and significance."
Ataman
Well someone has to admit the obvious whitout partiality: in beauty they don't even come close to the beauty and magnificance of the French cathedrals.
If one day you have more than 100 - 200 euros to spend on a trip than visite France and her cathedrals and chateaux. That will open your eyes.
pre 13 godina
"As for the church of Jak it is not a chatedrale...I visited it in 1972..
(Joe, 18 January 2011 19:36)
Your comments get more childish by the day. You can't endure the thought that I saw the "cathedral" of Jak before you. I visite that area of Vas megye every year. My friends there will be pleased to hear that you updated it to a cathedral. So unofficially Hungary has now one versus 179 or 180 in France. Next time when my French friends come to visite us while we are on vacation in Western Hungary I will take them to Jak. They most likely will ask me "Ou est la cathedrale?" (where is the cathedral).
pre 13 godina
I dunno, I don't think that it is fair to compare belarus to russia. For example, while russia's villages are crippling while the oligarchs are getting ever richer, in belarus the villages are flourishing while there is no oligarch class.
Hence it is a totally different system. In belarus they have wealth distribution, while in Russia it's either you're at the top 10 percent, or you're living in misery.
pre 13 godina
"At the end what I realize while there is that the Russian do not really want the type of democracy we have, but something in between, maybe hard to understand for a European who has never been there.
(The Swiss, 18 January 2011 22:22) "
That they don't want an American-style democracy is pretty clear from comments on Russian sites and like this one. (American democracy probably seems rather more brutal than the European one, I imagine, but I don't think they distinguish clearly between them.) Anyway: I remember that when I started learning Russian I was told that when Russians say "liberty" or "freedom" they mean something scary like "license" - the absence of all restraint. Somebody's got to be in charge, and he'd better be strong enough to maintain order. Law, maybe, too - if it doesn't interfere with order.
pre 13 godina
About the churches: I flunked :( I thought they must be in Croatia because of the striped one, which I thought was characteristic of the Dalmatian coast. Are there any striped churches in France or Germany? (I may get another chance at this test, decades from now. When I'll probably be dead, but it's best to be prepared for any eventuality.)
pre 13 godina
"The original topic was that I wanted to prove, before the Mongol and Ottoman invasions the "East" was pretty much on the level with the West, in some aspects even ahead of it."
Ataman
You have a complex of inferiority. You try to prove something desperately without success.
The East was never on the same level but if you think so that will not change the facts. Maybe you will lift the spirits of some readers on this site but you will not change the opinion of millions of people, who are knowledgeable with cathedrals in the West. They decided for themself.
As for the church of Vladimir and few others you generally advertize them several times per year. You should get a commission for that. The Russians should appreciate your dedication. But what you should really do is run your publicity in Western Europe ....convinc people there. See how far you get.
Also for a true comparison you should visite the cathedrals of France, some 180 of it to see the light. Your world seems to be reduced to the Vladimir-Fruska Gora - Kosovo triangle. Nice but as for churches, cathedrals there are more to it.
pre 13 godina
2) Tsk, tsk - let Pálinkás Joe suffer a bit and guess, where the heck in France it is - but here you have one, it's probably the most "striped" one:
(Ataman, 19 January 2011 17:03)
This Pálinkás Joe cannot be fooled I guess http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1link%C3%A1s_J%C3%B3zsef
pre 13 godina
Also for a true comparison you should visite the cathedrals of France, some 180 of it to see the light.
(Joe, 19 January 2011 19:47)
1) Name the "daddy" of all romanesque churches and cathedrals.
2) Name the two French ones from the links I sent to Amer.
We can talk if you do 1) + 2).
If you don't - than your "French" respect will go the way your "Hungarian" did. :-)
You have one day.
pre 13 godina
Your world seems to be reduced to the Vladimir-Fruska Gora - Kosovo triangle.
(Joe, 19 January 2011 19:47)
That's a mighty big triangle - add Ukraina, Georgia and Armenia to that.
Bigger than "my own WC made of gold" + "my own virus-infested PC where I troll on B92" + "map of Piripócs in Vas megye so I can keep up with the topic about Russia" triangle.
pre 13 godina
""The original topic was that I wanted to prove, before the Mongol and Ottoman invasions the "East" was pretty much on the level with the West, in some aspects even ahead of it."
Ataman "
The Eastern Roman Empire outlasted the Western Empire by centuries, granted. The Dark Ages may not have been completely dark, but there was certainly a decline after the barbarian invasions. As for church styles, I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove - builders traveled from country to country. I thought Gracanica was supposed to have been the work of a Dalmatian builder, that's why I was interested in the stripes (or whatever the technical term is).
pre 13 godina
As for church styles, I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove - builders traveled from country to country.
(Amer, 19 January 2011 22:24)
Of course they did, they were few in between and not cheap people.
A dark age ruler just could not afford the same builder what a Byzantine emperor could. The pictures prove - we can't talk about "dark age" in Russia in 11th-13th centuries. The dark age came 1239.
The rulers in Rus had:
- enough wealth to spend to hire a most likely first-class mason and let him organize a team
- were enough enlightened to get the above idea.
The traveling mason had to hire locals to do most of the job - the locals would learn. Later the same locals would act on their own - if the opportunity is there.
Staying with Russia - since that was the topic - the style you did see is not limited to one building. There are about 4-5 buildings (checked out: all got the "cathedral" status!) in the same area of ca. 100 mile radius, built within about 100 year period. It is impossible the same mason would do it - they lived longer, but not that long. Obviously locals learned fast.
If you move to other topics you see the same picture - until Mongol and Ottoman invasions did not came.
The "dark age" in the West was much earlier, since we speaking about 11th-13th Century that wasn't that dark in the West either.
pre 13 godina
We can talk if you do 1) + 2).
If you don't - than your "French" respect will go the way your "Hungarian" did. :-)
You have one day.
(Ataman, 19 January 2011 20:44)
The time is over. Joe, you are "готов". If there is any "you" at all - you sick "henelist" phantasy. Who can't say "Cluny" or "Vezelay" or even "Santiago de Compostella". Both thumbs down - 100% idiot, even as a ghost an idiot.
27 Komentari
Sortiraj po: