My mom once told me. (She lived in Serbia).
That They (people in Serbia/Serbs)
Where first taught to be Yugoslavs! and only Secondly to be Serb.
Here is the other thing Slovens/Croats/macedonians/Albanians. Where all first taught to be Sloven/Croat/Macedonian/Albanian.
As for the montenegrins, The montenegrin King Njegos himself said he was king of Serbs. And until WW2 Serbs where 95% in MNE. then afther ww2 90% was montnegrin 20 years later when Muslim ethnicity was introduced montnegrins dropped to 70% and muslims where 15%.
As for the muslims in Bosnia
in 1961 Serbs where 1.3mil, Croats 0.7mil
1991 Serbs where 1.3mil, Croats where 0.7mil.
The population grew. Mulsims in Bosnia where in 1961 0.8mil yugoslavs where 0.1mil, in 1991 muslims where 1.9mil and yugolsavs 0.3mil.
what can you conclude of these statistics, For me its logical to think that many people who where Serbian became another ethnic group Created by TIto and Co. ( his motive to minimize Serbian % in YU I think)
Serb % in YU
1991 36%
1981 39%
1971 41%
1961 45%
also about yugoslavs most people who where yugoslav had 1 parent Serbian and other was a different nationality
And some historic fact like Mehmed-paša Sokolović he was 100% serbian and not something like bosnjak.
also Bosnian KIng tvrtko Himself told he was King of Serbs.
Bosnjaks/Montenegrins and most croats are indeed Serbians who because of their own reasons (Religion/1 parant from different nationality/dont live in Serbia etc) dont want to be Serbian! end of story.
''Iliri, stick to things Albanian, you have no knowledge in this matter. You are only trying to be sarcastic to anything Serbian. Please give it a rest, we don't need to read rubbish like yours that is only inflammatory, and of no substance, here on B92 blogs. I never comment on Albanian cultural issues, like a father-in-law sleeping with his daughter-in-law, if the husband (son) dies. That's your business.
(winston, 14 January 2011 21:25) ''
Yeah right, father in law sleeps with daughter in law if hasbund/son dies ... you actually forgot to add that we also take the kidneys from the dying husband...we also feed little children well, and continously drink their blood...however, even taliban leaders don't go as far as to curse a langauge that some people speak. I mean , why would a montenegrin have to burn in hell just for speaking montenegrin? Here in Albania, we even call bulgarian language as jugoslavisht, or sometimes we generalise as rusisht, so anyhting that sounds slavic is either jugosllavisht or rusisht, not to complicated for us indeed...yet i would not like the idea of having montengrin, fyromian, bulgarian, croat, and slovak priests, cursing us for accidentally grouping their language as a jugoslav/russian language. Not that we believe in angels playing harps and stuff anyway.
Wiston, your priest has been also cursing Albanian leaders in Montenegro, so this is albanian problem to, although , by default, Albanians there are either muslims or catholics so the curse would not take effect. Anyway, don't tell me about not knowing. Montengrins are trying to establish their own church, it is their legitimate right to do so, and serbs are making noise and fuss about an orthodox gazebo built on romanesque foundations...actually, in albania, our people got fed up by this particular kind of speeches, and one day enough was enough and people here picked up hammers, i mean , what could ever be grosser than cursing someone just for the language he speaks...
HIS HOLINESS AMFILOHIJE "Made-up language"
Its a attempt to create something which have no tangible value.Present Montenegro's
leadership tries to do everything to
separate people of Montenegro from everything Serbian in tradition and character.One can divide lots of things
but not a soul of the people of Montenegro.I'm writing this comment with the sadness in my heart for not having means to steer my beloved countryman from this disastrous course, which leads to extinction.Montenegro like no other constituent Republic of former Yugoslavia civil war ended in December 1947( That was a date were total arms resistance was eliminated by the communist Government).What Montenegro people (650,0000 or there about) needs is good schools to educate their young men and women using their mother (Serbian)language which would give them a solid base to enter multi- lingua European higher learning institutions
I must admit , from an outsiders perspective that was very funny , a Bishop curses someone then justifies it as an act of "love and most profound care".
You know , I think im getting to understand why so many of the extremists ( as opposed to rational serbs) on this site always praise this guy. This guy actually justified a sin as an act "of love and profound care" . I wonder what else he has justifed? The mind boggles.
it seems rather strange that you could conclude that you must remind the rest of the world that ex yugoldavs have serb ancestry when considering that out of a 1981 population in the teritory of the Former Yugoslavia , of 22,411,000 , only 1,215,000 called themselves "yugoslav".
There can be only one of two conclusions
1. That most Yugolsavs were NOT in fact Serbians (271,000 in Serbia)
(626,000 in Croatia - 26,000 in Slovenia , 14,000 in Macedinia , 31,000 in Montenegro , 326,000 in Bosnia and approx 1000 in Kosovo) - so where you conclude most yugolsavs were serbians defies logic,
and secondly , if they were such proud and "pure" serbs , the question has to be asked , when did they cal themselves 'Yugoslav" and not "Serbians"?
Two possible reasons - they werent , or they felt less Serb and more something else.
So via your own form of logic - you have just proved to the whole world that rather than being pure Serbs , Yugoslavs , by their very choice , didnt want to be Serbs at all.
Either way as usual , your conclusions are niether based on fact nor reality.
And while I'm not advocating Croats call their language Serbian or Serbs call their language Croatian, I would say some common sense is needed. Montenigrins always prided themselves in being the toughest Serbs. To now call themselves and their language something they're not, is very sad indeed.
(Pete, 14 January 2011 15:10)
Well Pete, there must be some reason why the Montenegrins don't want to be mistaken for Serbs. I wonder what it could be.
Iliri, stick to things Albanian, you have no knowledge in this matter. You are only trying to be sarcastic to anything Serbian. Please give it a rest, we don't need to read rubbish like yours that is only inflammatory, and of no substance, here on B92 blogs. I never comment on Albanian cultural issues, like a father-in-law sleeping with his daughter-in-law, if the husband (son) dies. That's your business.
It's about time the holy father stops talking politics and stirring up the poo poo, and rather focusing his duty in being holy and spreading the love of jesus toward one another!
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Czeck-Slovak are also the same language too, just different dialects."
No way. During the days of the CSSR television and radio time was divided 2:1 between Czech and Slovak (population ratio) so everybody at least passively understood the other's language, and you could hear conversations where one person was speaking Czech and the other Slovak. But since the Velvet Divorce, the Czechs have been forgetting Slovak - most people can still understand news broadcasts, for example, but drama, with its more colloquial forms, goes right by them. The Slovaks have kept up with Czech, but the Czechs are forgetting Slovak - it's easy to find books in Czech in Slovakia, difficult to find anything in Slovak in CR.
Czech underwent a series of sound changes in the Middle Ages that differentiated it from all other Slavic languages, and after that, Czech developed under the influence of German, and Slovak under that of Hungarian. They were probably different tribes at one time, with the Slovaks being more closely related to the Slovenians, but that was a very long time ago.
The impression that Slovak is a dialect of Czech is probably due to the fact that Slovaks used Czech as a literary language before literary Slovak was codified.
Bulgarian-Macedonian, same language different dialect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Czeck-Slovak are also the same language too, just different dialects.
(Ian, UK, 14 January 2011 17:31)
Czechs and Slovaks do understand each other but the difference is bigger.
Paradox, but Slovak existence is tied to Hungary: wouldn't be there Hungarian Kingdom, Slovaks would be simply disappear, assimilated by either Czech or Polish majority.
As for German - these three samples from Wiki are priceless:
1) S' Boarische is a Grubbm vo Dialekt im Sidn vom daitschn Språchraum.
2) Das Bairische ist eine Gruppe von Dialekten im Süden des deutschen Sprachraumes
(means: "Bavarian is a group of dialects in the south of the German speaking area")
"Servus, ich bin Peter und ich komme aus München."
(here, by the way - Wiki is wrong. As alternative greeting, you rarely will hear "Grüß Gott" from a Bavarian, they say "Gruaß Gott")
Given that these supposed to be the "same" language - with the same success, Dalmatinci in Split area do speak Russian. At least it requires less training for the ear to understand than for a "Berliner Preiß" do the same with "Boarish".
An other rather funny grouping of these languages would group Russian and Croatian in one group and Serbian with Ukrainian in an other: it's how the consonants are "softened" after certain vowels. One is called "ekavian", the other "iekavian". There are degrees of "ekaviness" and "iekaviness", the most "ekavian" is probably Czech (not sure, do not know it) with Serb pretty close. The most infamously "iekavian" is Russian, much more than Croatian. A bit joking I can say - Ukrainian is like Russian spoken by Serbs or Macedonians :-P
But no comparison with the Prussian (like in Berlin) versus Bavarian.
Keep up the good work if you want the Serbs to be the most reviled self alienated people of their neighbours your exactly on the rite track. No one is interested in Serbdom keep it for your selfs and wallow in it all you want no one sees any benefit of it quite the apposite. Serbs have more then shown the evil ways of it your neighbours just shake their heads and say God help us from the mass of delusionaly inflicted Serbs.
Notice how he made that speach in fronts of thousands of people at a local church.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is STILL after constant brainwashing by the Titoists in Montenegro, the most trusted institution in the country.
Meaning after some time, our people there will realize they made a terrible mistake. Remember support for independence was only 54%, included all of Bosniaks, Croats and obviously Albanians.
Eventually Montenegro will have no where to go and will come back to the motherland
At the end of the day Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrin and Serbian are all dialects of the same language, known as Serbo-Croatian. If you put a Bosniak, Croat, Serb and a Montenegrin in the same room they'd all understand one another; even though there is differences in dialects and accents ect which is only normal considering the language is spread out over four countries. Also the alphabet issues doesn't mean they're different languages either. No serious linguistic would say they're different languages. The same applies to Hindi-Urdu, same language once again but different alphabet and dialects. Bulgarian-Macedonian, same language different dialect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Czeck-Slovak are also the same language too, just different dialects.
Take Germany for example, in North Germany they speak the Low German dialect and in South Germany and Austria they speak the Upper German dialect, still the same language even though North Germans sometimes struggle to understand South Germans and Austrians.
Another example, I'm from Yorkshire in North England and I have quite a strong Yorkshire accent and I use lots of words from the Yorkshire Dialect (known as Tyke, has a lot of Scandinavian and Old English influence); I have to tone down my accent and be careful with which words I use when I speak to my mates from the South of England otherwise they wouldn't understand what I'm saying. However I wouldn't dream of saying that I speak another language. Then there is the Scots Language which is spoken in Southern Scotland and in Ulster in the North of Ireland, that is still just another dialect of English; it isn't a proper language. The Irish language, Scottish Gaelic language and Manx language are also very similar to one another and are basically dialects of one language. My Irish speaking mate has listened to Scottish Gaelic radio from the BBC before and he can understand it all.
The problem in the former Yugoslavia is that they have changed the name of the language for nationalist reasons. I think they all need to grow up and call the language either Serbo-Croatian or "Yugoslavian" which literally means "South-Slavic"; but then again a lot of people don't want to be reminded of Yugoslavia. It is a very complicated issue. I think Serbo-Croatian is the best name overall. No matter what the language is called, people can keep their local dialect and accents, no need to change it.
People just need to learn the difference between dialects and languages and not let nationalist tendencies get in the way.
Amfilhoje is 100% correct. The fact is, Montenegrins, Croats and Bosnians all speak Serbian. Trying to invent new languages and usurp the history of others shows just how pathetic some people can be.
I say to them....'Pricaj Srpski da te celi svet razume!'
Sorry to burst your ignorance bubble once again, but a religious name as the Serbs got can never be pure, If you have been fooled that you are a good sheep, your priests and tax thugs need an Oscar nomination for the cruel jokes they practice on their "flock" :D
Please enjoy your delusions
(Drownanotherday, 14 January 2011 12:18)
For you not being a Serb and having such vast knowledge of Serbian Christian history I have to assume that you were an attentive sheep at one time, or an altar boy with a great memory that's been baptized and briefed often by his good priests.
I am enjoying my delusions. Are you enjoying your burst bubble?
His delivery is, I grant you, clumsy but the overall message is sound. This obsession with being somehow distinct is a sign of paranoia and only exposes the Montenigrin lobby to further ridicule. There is no such thing as a Montenigrin language distinct from Serbian. And to suggest there is is absurd and laughable. Just as there is very little intrinsic difference between the Croatian and Serbian languages. It's pure politics. This idea that if you call your language Serbian you somehow belong to Serbia is like arguing that those nations that speak English, the United States, Australia etc. belong to England. I doubt in their wildest nationalistic dreams would they consider calling their language Australianish, Americanish, New Zealandish and so on. Even the Scots who were at war with the English for centuries wouldn't dream of calling the language they speak anything other than English. There may be differing dialects, accents, and the odd word or two but they are all the same language. And while I'm not advocating Croats call their language Serbian or Serbs call their language Croatian, I would say some common sense is needed. Montenigrins always prided themselves in being the toughest Serbs. To now call themselves and their language something they're not, is very sad indeed.
In ex-Yu the Slovenes and Macedonians spoke their own languages which were sufficiently distinct from Serbo-Croat as to require subtitles whenever their films were shown on Serbian or Croatian TV.
Serbians have only ever spoken Serbian.
Before the 19th century the Croats spoke a language quite distinct from modern Serbo-Croat, but they abandoned this old Croatian for a language based on modern Serbian. So modern Croats do not speak “Croatian”, instead they continue to speak Serbo-Croat, which is little more than a dialect of Serbian.
Do't be jelaous. Not every ethnicity is blessed with a historic mission to re-integrate its artificially divided ethnos & lost territories. Serbs, Armenians, Russians, Chinese, Koreans are the ones who must bear this burden, be tested and triumph in our lifetime as long as we're united as we are today CCCC
" We must never forget & always remind The World that most ex-Yugoslavs pure have Serb ancestry
(highduke,"
Sorry to burst your ignorance bubble once again, but a religious name as the Serbs got can never be pure, If you have been fooled that you are a good sheep, your priests and tax thugs need an Oscar nomination for the cruel jokes they practice on their "flock" :D
Bravo Amfilohije! As in MK, BiH, Dalmatia & KiM, ethnic Serbs are being de-Serbianized, turned into new Serbophobic quasi-ethnic formations. Eventualy our church will be openly attacked in CG. We must never forget & always remind The World that most ex-Yugoslavs pure have Serb ancestry
Amfilhoje is 100% correct. The fact is, Montenegrins, Croats and Bosnians all speak Serbian. Trying to invent new languages and usurp the history of others shows just how pathetic some people can be.
I say to them....'Pricaj Srpski da te celi svet razume!'
Bravo Amfilohije! As in MK, BiH, Dalmatia & KiM, ethnic Serbs are being de-Serbianized, turned into new Serbophobic quasi-ethnic formations. Eventualy our church will be openly attacked in CG. We must never forget & always remind The World that most ex-Yugoslavs pure have Serb ancestry
In ex-Yu the Slovenes and Macedonians spoke their own languages which were sufficiently distinct from Serbo-Croat as to require subtitles whenever their films were shown on Serbian or Croatian TV.
Serbians have only ever spoken Serbian.
Before the 19th century the Croats spoke a language quite distinct from modern Serbo-Croat, but they abandoned this old Croatian for a language based on modern Serbian. So modern Croats do not speak “Croatian”, instead they continue to speak Serbo-Croat, which is little more than a dialect of Serbian.
His delivery is, I grant you, clumsy but the overall message is sound. This obsession with being somehow distinct is a sign of paranoia and only exposes the Montenigrin lobby to further ridicule. There is no such thing as a Montenigrin language distinct from Serbian. And to suggest there is is absurd and laughable. Just as there is very little intrinsic difference between the Croatian and Serbian languages. It's pure politics. This idea that if you call your language Serbian you somehow belong to Serbia is like arguing that those nations that speak English, the United States, Australia etc. belong to England. I doubt in their wildest nationalistic dreams would they consider calling their language Australianish, Americanish, New Zealandish and so on. Even the Scots who were at war with the English for centuries wouldn't dream of calling the language they speak anything other than English. There may be differing dialects, accents, and the odd word or two but they are all the same language. And while I'm not advocating Croats call their language Serbian or Serbs call their language Croatian, I would say some common sense is needed. Montenigrins always prided themselves in being the toughest Serbs. To now call themselves and their language something they're not, is very sad indeed.
Do't be jelaous. Not every ethnicity is blessed with a historic mission to re-integrate its artificially divided ethnos & lost territories. Serbs, Armenians, Russians, Chinese, Koreans are the ones who must bear this burden, be tested and triumph in our lifetime as long as we're united as we are today CCCC
Sorry to burst your ignorance bubble once again, but a religious name as the Serbs got can never be pure, If you have been fooled that you are a good sheep, your priests and tax thugs need an Oscar nomination for the cruel jokes they practice on their "flock" :D
Please enjoy your delusions
(Drownanotherday, 14 January 2011 12:18)
For you not being a Serb and having such vast knowledge of Serbian Christian history I have to assume that you were an attentive sheep at one time, or an altar boy with a great memory that's been baptized and briefed often by his good priests.
I am enjoying my delusions. Are you enjoying your burst bubble?
At the end of the day Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrin and Serbian are all dialects of the same language, known as Serbo-Croatian. If you put a Bosniak, Croat, Serb and a Montenegrin in the same room they'd all understand one another; even though there is differences in dialects and accents ect which is only normal considering the language is spread out over four countries. Also the alphabet issues doesn't mean they're different languages either. No serious linguistic would say they're different languages. The same applies to Hindi-Urdu, same language once again but different alphabet and dialects. Bulgarian-Macedonian, same language different dialect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Czeck-Slovak are also the same language too, just different dialects.
Take Germany for example, in North Germany they speak the Low German dialect and in South Germany and Austria they speak the Upper German dialect, still the same language even though North Germans sometimes struggle to understand South Germans and Austrians.
Another example, I'm from Yorkshire in North England and I have quite a strong Yorkshire accent and I use lots of words from the Yorkshire Dialect (known as Tyke, has a lot of Scandinavian and Old English influence); I have to tone down my accent and be careful with which words I use when I speak to my mates from the South of England otherwise they wouldn't understand what I'm saying. However I wouldn't dream of saying that I speak another language. Then there is the Scots Language which is spoken in Southern Scotland and in Ulster in the North of Ireland, that is still just another dialect of English; it isn't a proper language. The Irish language, Scottish Gaelic language and Manx language are also very similar to one another and are basically dialects of one language. My Irish speaking mate has listened to Scottish Gaelic radio from the BBC before and he can understand it all.
The problem in the former Yugoslavia is that they have changed the name of the language for nationalist reasons. I think they all need to grow up and call the language either Serbo-Croatian or "Yugoslavian" which literally means "South-Slavic"; but then again a lot of people don't want to be reminded of Yugoslavia. It is a very complicated issue. I think Serbo-Croatian is the best name overall. No matter what the language is called, people can keep their local dialect and accents, no need to change it.
People just need to learn the difference between dialects and languages and not let nationalist tendencies get in the way.
Notice how he made that speach in fronts of thousands of people at a local church.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is STILL after constant brainwashing by the Titoists in Montenegro, the most trusted institution in the country.
Meaning after some time, our people there will realize they made a terrible mistake. Remember support for independence was only 54%, included all of Bosniaks, Croats and obviously Albanians.
Eventually Montenegro will have no where to go and will come back to the motherland
Iliri, stick to things Albanian, you have no knowledge in this matter. You are only trying to be sarcastic to anything Serbian. Please give it a rest, we don't need to read rubbish like yours that is only inflammatory, and of no substance, here on B92 blogs. I never comment on Albanian cultural issues, like a father-in-law sleeping with his daughter-in-law, if the husband (son) dies. That's your business.
" We must never forget & always remind The World that most ex-Yugoslavs pure have Serb ancestry
(highduke,"
Sorry to burst your ignorance bubble once again, but a religious name as the Serbs got can never be pure, If you have been fooled that you are a good sheep, your priests and tax thugs need an Oscar nomination for the cruel jokes they practice on their "flock" :D
Keep up the good work if you want the Serbs to be the most reviled self alienated people of their neighbours your exactly on the rite track. No one is interested in Serbdom keep it for your selfs and wallow in it all you want no one sees any benefit of it quite the apposite. Serbs have more then shown the evil ways of it your neighbours just shake their heads and say God help us from the mass of delusionaly inflicted Serbs.
And while I'm not advocating Croats call their language Serbian or Serbs call their language Croatian, I would say some common sense is needed. Montenigrins always prided themselves in being the toughest Serbs. To now call themselves and their language something they're not, is very sad indeed.
(Pete, 14 January 2011 15:10)
Well Pete, there must be some reason why the Montenegrins don't want to be mistaken for Serbs. I wonder what it could be.
It's about time the holy father stops talking politics and stirring up the poo poo, and rather focusing his duty in being holy and spreading the love of jesus toward one another!
it seems rather strange that you could conclude that you must remind the rest of the world that ex yugoldavs have serb ancestry when considering that out of a 1981 population in the teritory of the Former Yugoslavia , of 22,411,000 , only 1,215,000 called themselves "yugoslav".
There can be only one of two conclusions
1. That most Yugolsavs were NOT in fact Serbians (271,000 in Serbia)
(626,000 in Croatia - 26,000 in Slovenia , 14,000 in Macedinia , 31,000 in Montenegro , 326,000 in Bosnia and approx 1000 in Kosovo) - so where you conclude most yugolsavs were serbians defies logic,
and secondly , if they were such proud and "pure" serbs , the question has to be asked , when did they cal themselves 'Yugoslav" and not "Serbians"?
Two possible reasons - they werent , or they felt less Serb and more something else.
So via your own form of logic - you have just proved to the whole world that rather than being pure Serbs , Yugoslavs , by their very choice , didnt want to be Serbs at all.
Either way as usual , your conclusions are niether based on fact nor reality.
I must admit , from an outsiders perspective that was very funny , a Bishop curses someone then justifies it as an act of "love and most profound care".
You know , I think im getting to understand why so many of the extremists ( as opposed to rational serbs) on this site always praise this guy. This guy actually justified a sin as an act "of love and profound care" . I wonder what else he has justifed? The mind boggles.
Bulgarian-Macedonian, same language different dialect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Czeck-Slovak are also the same language too, just different dialects.
(Ian, UK, 14 January 2011 17:31)
Czechs and Slovaks do understand each other but the difference is bigger.
Paradox, but Slovak existence is tied to Hungary: wouldn't be there Hungarian Kingdom, Slovaks would be simply disappear, assimilated by either Czech or Polish majority.
As for German - these three samples from Wiki are priceless:
1) S' Boarische is a Grubbm vo Dialekt im Sidn vom daitschn Språchraum.
2) Das Bairische ist eine Gruppe von Dialekten im Süden des deutschen Sprachraumes
(means: "Bavarian is a group of dialects in the south of the German speaking area")
"Servus, ich bin Peter und ich komme aus München."
(here, by the way - Wiki is wrong. As alternative greeting, you rarely will hear "Grüß Gott" from a Bavarian, they say "Gruaß Gott")
Given that these supposed to be the "same" language - with the same success, Dalmatinci in Split area do speak Russian. At least it requires less training for the ear to understand than for a "Berliner Preiß" do the same with "Boarish".
An other rather funny grouping of these languages would group Russian and Croatian in one group and Serbian with Ukrainian in an other: it's how the consonants are "softened" after certain vowels. One is called "ekavian", the other "iekavian". There are degrees of "ekaviness" and "iekaviness", the most "ekavian" is probably Czech (not sure, do not know it) with Serb pretty close. The most infamously "iekavian" is Russian, much more than Croatian. A bit joking I can say - Ukrainian is like Russian spoken by Serbs or Macedonians :-P
But no comparison with the Prussian (like in Berlin) versus Bavarian.
HIS HOLINESS AMFILOHIJE "Made-up language"
Its a attempt to create something which have no tangible value.Present Montenegro's
leadership tries to do everything to
separate people of Montenegro from everything Serbian in tradition and character.One can divide lots of things
but not a soul of the people of Montenegro.I'm writing this comment with the sadness in my heart for not having means to steer my beloved countryman from this disastrous course, which leads to extinction.Montenegro like no other constituent Republic of former Yugoslavia civil war ended in December 1947( That was a date were total arms resistance was eliminated by the communist Government).What Montenegro people (650,0000 or there about) needs is good schools to educate their young men and women using their mother (Serbian)language which would give them a solid base to enter multi- lingua European higher learning institutions
''Iliri, stick to things Albanian, you have no knowledge in this matter. You are only trying to be sarcastic to anything Serbian. Please give it a rest, we don't need to read rubbish like yours that is only inflammatory, and of no substance, here on B92 blogs. I never comment on Albanian cultural issues, like a father-in-law sleeping with his daughter-in-law, if the husband (son) dies. That's your business.
(winston, 14 January 2011 21:25) ''
Yeah right, father in law sleeps with daughter in law if hasbund/son dies ... you actually forgot to add that we also take the kidneys from the dying husband...we also feed little children well, and continously drink their blood...however, even taliban leaders don't go as far as to curse a langauge that some people speak. I mean , why would a montenegrin have to burn in hell just for speaking montenegrin? Here in Albania, we even call bulgarian language as jugoslavisht, or sometimes we generalise as rusisht, so anyhting that sounds slavic is either jugosllavisht or rusisht, not to complicated for us indeed...yet i would not like the idea of having montengrin, fyromian, bulgarian, croat, and slovak priests, cursing us for accidentally grouping their language as a jugoslav/russian language. Not that we believe in angels playing harps and stuff anyway.
Wiston, your priest has been also cursing Albanian leaders in Montenegro, so this is albanian problem to, although , by default, Albanians there are either muslims or catholics so the curse would not take effect. Anyway, don't tell me about not knowing. Montengrins are trying to establish their own church, it is their legitimate right to do so, and serbs are making noise and fuss about an orthodox gazebo built on romanesque foundations...actually, in albania, our people got fed up by this particular kind of speeches, and one day enough was enough and people here picked up hammers, i mean , what could ever be grosser than cursing someone just for the language he speaks...
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Czeck-Slovak are also the same language too, just different dialects."
No way. During the days of the CSSR television and radio time was divided 2:1 between Czech and Slovak (population ratio) so everybody at least passively understood the other's language, and you could hear conversations where one person was speaking Czech and the other Slovak. But since the Velvet Divorce, the Czechs have been forgetting Slovak - most people can still understand news broadcasts, for example, but drama, with its more colloquial forms, goes right by them. The Slovaks have kept up with Czech, but the Czechs are forgetting Slovak - it's easy to find books in Czech in Slovakia, difficult to find anything in Slovak in CR.
Czech underwent a series of sound changes in the Middle Ages that differentiated it from all other Slavic languages, and after that, Czech developed under the influence of German, and Slovak under that of Hungarian. They were probably different tribes at one time, with the Slovaks being more closely related to the Slovenians, but that was a very long time ago.
The impression that Slovak is a dialect of Czech is probably due to the fact that Slovaks used Czech as a literary language before literary Slovak was codified.
My mom once told me. (She lived in Serbia).
That They (people in Serbia/Serbs)
Where first taught to be Yugoslavs! and only Secondly to be Serb.
Here is the other thing Slovens/Croats/macedonians/Albanians. Where all first taught to be Sloven/Croat/Macedonian/Albanian.
As for the montenegrins, The montenegrin King Njegos himself said he was king of Serbs. And until WW2 Serbs where 95% in MNE. then afther ww2 90% was montnegrin 20 years later when Muslim ethnicity was introduced montnegrins dropped to 70% and muslims where 15%.
As for the muslims in Bosnia
in 1961 Serbs where 1.3mil, Croats 0.7mil
1991 Serbs where 1.3mil, Croats where 0.7mil.
The population grew. Mulsims in Bosnia where in 1961 0.8mil yugoslavs where 0.1mil, in 1991 muslims where 1.9mil and yugolsavs 0.3mil.
what can you conclude of these statistics, For me its logical to think that many people who where Serbian became another ethnic group Created by TIto and Co. ( his motive to minimize Serbian % in YU I think)
Serb % in YU
1991 36%
1981 39%
1971 41%
1961 45%
also about yugoslavs most people who where yugoslav had 1 parent Serbian and other was a different nationality
And some historic fact like Mehmed-paša Sokolović he was 100% serbian and not something like bosnjak.
also Bosnian KIng tvrtko Himself told he was King of Serbs.
Bosnjaks/Montenegrins and most croats are indeed Serbians who because of their own reasons (Religion/1 parant from different nationality/dont live in Serbia etc) dont want to be Serbian! end of story.
" We must never forget & always remind The World that most ex-Yugoslavs pure have Serb ancestry
(highduke,"
Sorry to burst your ignorance bubble once again, but a religious name as the Serbs got can never be pure, If you have been fooled that you are a good sheep, your priests and tax thugs need an Oscar nomination for the cruel jokes they practice on their "flock" :D
Bravo Amfilohije! As in MK, BiH, Dalmatia & KiM, ethnic Serbs are being de-Serbianized, turned into new Serbophobic quasi-ethnic formations. Eventualy our church will be openly attacked in CG. We must never forget & always remind The World that most ex-Yugoslavs pure have Serb ancestry
Keep up the good work if you want the Serbs to be the most reviled self alienated people of their neighbours your exactly on the rite track. No one is interested in Serbdom keep it for your selfs and wallow in it all you want no one sees any benefit of it quite the apposite. Serbs have more then shown the evil ways of it your neighbours just shake their heads and say God help us from the mass of delusionaly inflicted Serbs.
Do't be jelaous. Not every ethnicity is blessed with a historic mission to re-integrate its artificially divided ethnos & lost territories. Serbs, Armenians, Russians, Chinese, Koreans are the ones who must bear this burden, be tested and triumph in our lifetime as long as we're united as we are today CCCC
Notice how he made that speach in fronts of thousands of people at a local church.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is STILL after constant brainwashing by the Titoists in Montenegro, the most trusted institution in the country.
Meaning after some time, our people there will realize they made a terrible mistake. Remember support for independence was only 54%, included all of Bosniaks, Croats and obviously Albanians.
Eventually Montenegro will have no where to go and will come back to the motherland
My mom once told me. (She lived in Serbia).
That They (people in Serbia/Serbs)
Where first taught to be Yugoslavs! and only Secondly to be Serb.
Here is the other thing Slovens/Croats/macedonians/Albanians. Where all first taught to be Sloven/Croat/Macedonian/Albanian.
As for the montenegrins, The montenegrin King Njegos himself said he was king of Serbs. And until WW2 Serbs where 95% in MNE. then afther ww2 90% was montnegrin 20 years later when Muslim ethnicity was introduced montnegrins dropped to 70% and muslims where 15%.
As for the muslims in Bosnia
in 1961 Serbs where 1.3mil, Croats 0.7mil
1991 Serbs where 1.3mil, Croats where 0.7mil.
The population grew. Mulsims in Bosnia where in 1961 0.8mil yugoslavs where 0.1mil, in 1991 muslims where 1.9mil and yugolsavs 0.3mil.
what can you conclude of these statistics, For me its logical to think that many people who where Serbian became another ethnic group Created by TIto and Co. ( his motive to minimize Serbian % in YU I think)
Serb % in YU
1991 36%
1981 39%
1971 41%
1961 45%
also about yugoslavs most people who where yugoslav had 1 parent Serbian and other was a different nationality
And some historic fact like Mehmed-paša Sokolović he was 100% serbian and not something like bosnjak.
also Bosnian KIng tvrtko Himself told he was King of Serbs.
Bosnjaks/Montenegrins and most croats are indeed Serbians who because of their own reasons (Religion/1 parant from different nationality/dont live in Serbia etc) dont want to be Serbian! end of story.
In ex-Yu the Slovenes and Macedonians spoke their own languages which were sufficiently distinct from Serbo-Croat as to require subtitles whenever their films were shown on Serbian or Croatian TV.
Serbians have only ever spoken Serbian.
Before the 19th century the Croats spoke a language quite distinct from modern Serbo-Croat, but they abandoned this old Croatian for a language based on modern Serbian. So modern Croats do not speak “Croatian”, instead they continue to speak Serbo-Croat, which is little more than a dialect of Serbian.
And while I'm not advocating Croats call their language Serbian or Serbs call their language Croatian, I would say some common sense is needed. Montenigrins always prided themselves in being the toughest Serbs. To now call themselves and their language something they're not, is very sad indeed.
(Pete, 14 January 2011 15:10)
Well Pete, there must be some reason why the Montenegrins don't want to be mistaken for Serbs. I wonder what it could be.
Sorry to burst your ignorance bubble once again, but a religious name as the Serbs got can never be pure, If you have been fooled that you are a good sheep, your priests and tax thugs need an Oscar nomination for the cruel jokes they practice on their "flock" :D
Please enjoy your delusions
(Drownanotherday, 14 January 2011 12:18)
For you not being a Serb and having such vast knowledge of Serbian Christian history I have to assume that you were an attentive sheep at one time, or an altar boy with a great memory that's been baptized and briefed often by his good priests.
I am enjoying my delusions. Are you enjoying your burst bubble?
Amfilhoje is 100% correct. The fact is, Montenegrins, Croats and Bosnians all speak Serbian. Trying to invent new languages and usurp the history of others shows just how pathetic some people can be.
I say to them....'Pricaj Srpski da te celi svet razume!'
it seems rather strange that you could conclude that you must remind the rest of the world that ex yugoldavs have serb ancestry when considering that out of a 1981 population in the teritory of the Former Yugoslavia , of 22,411,000 , only 1,215,000 called themselves "yugoslav".
There can be only one of two conclusions
1. That most Yugolsavs were NOT in fact Serbians (271,000 in Serbia)
(626,000 in Croatia - 26,000 in Slovenia , 14,000 in Macedinia , 31,000 in Montenegro , 326,000 in Bosnia and approx 1000 in Kosovo) - so where you conclude most yugolsavs were serbians defies logic,
and secondly , if they were such proud and "pure" serbs , the question has to be asked , when did they cal themselves 'Yugoslav" and not "Serbians"?
Two possible reasons - they werent , or they felt less Serb and more something else.
So via your own form of logic - you have just proved to the whole world that rather than being pure Serbs , Yugoslavs , by their very choice , didnt want to be Serbs at all.
Either way as usual , your conclusions are niether based on fact nor reality.
HIS HOLINESS AMFILOHIJE "Made-up language"
Its a attempt to create something which have no tangible value.Present Montenegro's
leadership tries to do everything to
separate people of Montenegro from everything Serbian in tradition and character.One can divide lots of things
but not a soul of the people of Montenegro.I'm writing this comment with the sadness in my heart for not having means to steer my beloved countryman from this disastrous course, which leads to extinction.Montenegro like no other constituent Republic of former Yugoslavia civil war ended in December 1947( That was a date were total arms resistance was eliminated by the communist Government).What Montenegro people (650,0000 or there about) needs is good schools to educate their young men and women using their mother (Serbian)language which would give them a solid base to enter multi- lingua European higher learning institutions
Iliri, stick to things Albanian, you have no knowledge in this matter. You are only trying to be sarcastic to anything Serbian. Please give it a rest, we don't need to read rubbish like yours that is only inflammatory, and of no substance, here on B92 blogs. I never comment on Albanian cultural issues, like a father-in-law sleeping with his daughter-in-law, if the husband (son) dies. That's your business.
I must admit , from an outsiders perspective that was very funny , a Bishop curses someone then justifies it as an act of "love and most profound care".
You know , I think im getting to understand why so many of the extremists ( as opposed to rational serbs) on this site always praise this guy. This guy actually justified a sin as an act "of love and profound care" . I wonder what else he has justifed? The mind boggles.
''Iliri, stick to things Albanian, you have no knowledge in this matter. You are only trying to be sarcastic to anything Serbian. Please give it a rest, we don't need to read rubbish like yours that is only inflammatory, and of no substance, here on B92 blogs. I never comment on Albanian cultural issues, like a father-in-law sleeping with his daughter-in-law, if the husband (son) dies. That's your business.
(winston, 14 January 2011 21:25) ''
Yeah right, father in law sleeps with daughter in law if hasbund/son dies ... you actually forgot to add that we also take the kidneys from the dying husband...we also feed little children well, and continously drink their blood...however, even taliban leaders don't go as far as to curse a langauge that some people speak. I mean , why would a montenegrin have to burn in hell just for speaking montenegrin? Here in Albania, we even call bulgarian language as jugoslavisht, or sometimes we generalise as rusisht, so anyhting that sounds slavic is either jugosllavisht or rusisht, not to complicated for us indeed...yet i would not like the idea of having montengrin, fyromian, bulgarian, croat, and slovak priests, cursing us for accidentally grouping their language as a jugoslav/russian language. Not that we believe in angels playing harps and stuff anyway.
Wiston, your priest has been also cursing Albanian leaders in Montenegro, so this is albanian problem to, although , by default, Albanians there are either muslims or catholics so the curse would not take effect. Anyway, don't tell me about not knowing. Montengrins are trying to establish their own church, it is their legitimate right to do so, and serbs are making noise and fuss about an orthodox gazebo built on romanesque foundations...actually, in albania, our people got fed up by this particular kind of speeches, and one day enough was enough and people here picked up hammers, i mean , what could ever be grosser than cursing someone just for the language he speaks...
At the end of the day Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrin and Serbian are all dialects of the same language, known as Serbo-Croatian. If you put a Bosniak, Croat, Serb and a Montenegrin in the same room they'd all understand one another; even though there is differences in dialects and accents ect which is only normal considering the language is spread out over four countries. Also the alphabet issues doesn't mean they're different languages either. No serious linguistic would say they're different languages. The same applies to Hindi-Urdu, same language once again but different alphabet and dialects. Bulgarian-Macedonian, same language different dialect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Czeck-Slovak are also the same language too, just different dialects.
Take Germany for example, in North Germany they speak the Low German dialect and in South Germany and Austria they speak the Upper German dialect, still the same language even though North Germans sometimes struggle to understand South Germans and Austrians.
Another example, I'm from Yorkshire in North England and I have quite a strong Yorkshire accent and I use lots of words from the Yorkshire Dialect (known as Tyke, has a lot of Scandinavian and Old English influence); I have to tone down my accent and be careful with which words I use when I speak to my mates from the South of England otherwise they wouldn't understand what I'm saying. However I wouldn't dream of saying that I speak another language. Then there is the Scots Language which is spoken in Southern Scotland and in Ulster in the North of Ireland, that is still just another dialect of English; it isn't a proper language. The Irish language, Scottish Gaelic language and Manx language are also very similar to one another and are basically dialects of one language. My Irish speaking mate has listened to Scottish Gaelic radio from the BBC before and he can understand it all.
The problem in the former Yugoslavia is that they have changed the name of the language for nationalist reasons. I think they all need to grow up and call the language either Serbo-Croatian or "Yugoslavian" which literally means "South-Slavic"; but then again a lot of people don't want to be reminded of Yugoslavia. It is a very complicated issue. I think Serbo-Croatian is the best name overall. No matter what the language is called, people can keep their local dialect and accents, no need to change it.
People just need to learn the difference between dialects and languages and not let nationalist tendencies get in the way.
It's about time the holy father stops talking politics and stirring up the poo poo, and rather focusing his duty in being holy and spreading the love of jesus toward one another!
His delivery is, I grant you, clumsy but the overall message is sound. This obsession with being somehow distinct is a sign of paranoia and only exposes the Montenigrin lobby to further ridicule. There is no such thing as a Montenigrin language distinct from Serbian. And to suggest there is is absurd and laughable. Just as there is very little intrinsic difference between the Croatian and Serbian languages. It's pure politics. This idea that if you call your language Serbian you somehow belong to Serbia is like arguing that those nations that speak English, the United States, Australia etc. belong to England. I doubt in their wildest nationalistic dreams would they consider calling their language Australianish, Americanish, New Zealandish and so on. Even the Scots who were at war with the English for centuries wouldn't dream of calling the language they speak anything other than English. There may be differing dialects, accents, and the odd word or two but they are all the same language. And while I'm not advocating Croats call their language Serbian or Serbs call their language Croatian, I would say some common sense is needed. Montenigrins always prided themselves in being the toughest Serbs. To now call themselves and their language something they're not, is very sad indeed.
Bulgarian-Macedonian, same language different dialect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Czeck-Slovak are also the same language too, just different dialects.
(Ian, UK, 14 January 2011 17:31)
Czechs and Slovaks do understand each other but the difference is bigger.
Paradox, but Slovak existence is tied to Hungary: wouldn't be there Hungarian Kingdom, Slovaks would be simply disappear, assimilated by either Czech or Polish majority.
As for German - these three samples from Wiki are priceless:
1) S' Boarische is a Grubbm vo Dialekt im Sidn vom daitschn Språchraum.
2) Das Bairische ist eine Gruppe von Dialekten im Süden des deutschen Sprachraumes
(means: "Bavarian is a group of dialects in the south of the German speaking area")
"Servus, ich bin Peter und ich komme aus München."
(here, by the way - Wiki is wrong. As alternative greeting, you rarely will hear "Grüß Gott" from a Bavarian, they say "Gruaß Gott")
Given that these supposed to be the "same" language - with the same success, Dalmatinci in Split area do speak Russian. At least it requires less training for the ear to understand than for a "Berliner Preiß" do the same with "Boarish".
An other rather funny grouping of these languages would group Russian and Croatian in one group and Serbian with Ukrainian in an other: it's how the consonants are "softened" after certain vowels. One is called "ekavian", the other "iekavian". There are degrees of "ekaviness" and "iekaviness", the most "ekavian" is probably Czech (not sure, do not know it) with Serb pretty close. The most infamously "iekavian" is Russian, much more than Croatian. A bit joking I can say - Ukrainian is like Russian spoken by Serbs or Macedonians :-P
But no comparison with the Prussian (like in Berlin) versus Bavarian.
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Czeck-Slovak are also the same language too, just different dialects."
No way. During the days of the CSSR television and radio time was divided 2:1 between Czech and Slovak (population ratio) so everybody at least passively understood the other's language, and you could hear conversations where one person was speaking Czech and the other Slovak. But since the Velvet Divorce, the Czechs have been forgetting Slovak - most people can still understand news broadcasts, for example, but drama, with its more colloquial forms, goes right by them. The Slovaks have kept up with Czech, but the Czechs are forgetting Slovak - it's easy to find books in Czech in Slovakia, difficult to find anything in Slovak in CR.
Czech underwent a series of sound changes in the Middle Ages that differentiated it from all other Slavic languages, and after that, Czech developed under the influence of German, and Slovak under that of Hungarian. They were probably different tribes at one time, with the Slovaks being more closely related to the Slovenians, but that was a very long time ago.
The impression that Slovak is a dialect of Czech is probably due to the fact that Slovaks used Czech as a literary language before literary Slovak was codified.
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