32

Monday, 10.01.2011.

10:54

"Witnesses are being killed in Kosovo"

CoE rapporteur Jean Charles Gardetto describes the situation in Kosovo as alarming, stressing especially killings of witnesses.

Izvor: Tanjug

"Witnesses are being killed in Kosovo" IMAGE SOURCE
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32 Komentari

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Je¿ magiczny

pre 13 godina

Still waiting for Roberto's comment.
Are human rights one-sided?
(Joachim, 11 January 2011 18:36)

Just for you - your wish came true. Robot Berta is not 100% Roberto, but better than nothing:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=72046

Amer

pre 13 godina

"Funny isn't that what the Yanks did against the Kingdom of Great Britain during the War of American independence? Should the "terrorists" called George Washington, Nathanael Greene, Horatio Gates, Benedict Arnold and Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben have worn cement shoes? "

Von Steuben wasn't a British subject, so he couldn't be charged with treason, but yes, the others would have been, and realized it. As Ben Franklin said, "We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." They knew what the stakes were.

On the other hand, as our Founders put it in Declaration of Independence, when a government violates the rights of its people, they have a right to "alter or abolish it" - a government can lose its right to claim the allegiance of its citizens. After that, it's up to the lawyers and/or the military men.

Mike

pre 13 godina

"Funny isn't that what the Yanks did against the Kingdom of Great Britain during the War of American independence? Should the "terrorists" called George Washington, Nathanael Greene, Horatio Gates, Benedict Arnold and Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben have worn cement shoes?" (Ian UK)

-- Um, yes. What, you were expecting me to get offended by your attempt at reverse examples? By the definition provided, yes, the War for American Independence was seen as an act of treason by the Crown. All the names you mentioned save Arnold would have been seen as treasonous individuals had the British put down the "American Insurrection" as it probably would have been called. Benedict Arnold switched sides back to the Brits, so he's remembered as a "traitor" in our history (that's History 101 for us). There's no commemorative coins for him or landmark bearing his name. Additionally, yes I find it equally funny that for all the writings about the Rights of Man by the Founding Fathers, people of a certain skin color were regarded as 3/5 of a person and we were the last modern country to abolish slavery. Don't think I apply subjective history to one side because I despise the other. George Washington and the Founding Fathers are regarded as larger than life figures in the US, but had they lost the war, they'd have been more reviled in England than Guy Fawkes. One difference between our historical spat and the current hoohah in the Balkans is that after the conflict, a negotiated settlement was reached between both sides, making, as Question rightly states, "treason" null and void. And that still didn't keep you from setting fire to the White House in 1812, or from almost recognizing the Confederacy during the Civil War - which might I add perpetuated slavery :)

Licemer

pre 13 godina

But I guess you pick and choice as to what is treason and what isn't. You're a bit of a hypocrite I say.
(Ian, UK, 11 January 2011 13:16)

Biggest hypocrites in the world are not Americans, but British mate. Just face it, nearly in every country you went you created problems. Just to name few: India, Pakistan, Palestine, Iraq.

Unfortunately, Americans inherited lot of these "moral principles" from you.

Did you know that British invented concentration camps, much before Germans? They used to introduce disease like small pox among the Indians and wiped out complete tribes.

Question

pre 13 godina

Truth,
I'm glad you're well versed in your country's history. I too am as well versed. However you missed a big view point during your 5th grade history lesson. The US founding fathers were committing treason from the perspective of the English Crown. I noticed you failed to properly highlight the war of independence. This was the reciprocal action taken to a treasonous act by a colony. The British soldiers were defeated and an agreement was arranged afterwards.
Just for your clarification, considering you brought up the asinine example of a kidnapping situation, the definition for treason is something very much like this:
'In law, treason is the crime that covers some of the more serious acts of betrayal of one's sovereign or nation'. So unless the kidnapped has accepted the kidnapper as their sovereign while not under the duress of a kidnapping then yes it would be treasonous to either run or harm the kidnapper. That being said, I'd be surprised to find too many kidnapped victims whom have declared themselves subjects of the sovereign kidnapper.
So though you may tout the truth, you have been found wanting when it comes to logic and language. Know a word's meaning when you use it, otherwise you should offer thanks when you're corrected on how to use a word and what it means.
You're very welcome.
And yes, a state, province, municipality or city-state that leaves its nation without the expressed approval of said nation is commit treason. It is just that after a successful departure that treason is moot due to the new nature. It doesn't negate the original treasonous behavior.

Ian, UK

pre 13 godina

-- Funny. Wasn't it the KLA that was acting "trasonous" against the government of Serbia since Kosovo was/is/whatever part of its territory? By your own provided definition, Thaci, Haradinaj and the rest ought to be the ones wearing cement shoes. Nasty thing about that understanding of "treason": it's usually understood as such by those on the other side of those composing some sort of declaration of independence. Even more funny coming from someone who at first idolizes the concept of freedom and independence for one's side and the seeks to throw the heavy hand of the law and punishment in an effort to deny it for others or stifle criticism against one's institutions.

Give my regards to the Tea Party and Caribou Barbie if you see her.
(Mike, 11 January 2011 00:57)

Funny isn't that what the Yanks did against the Kingdom of Great Britain during the War of American independence? Should the "terrorists" called George Washington, Nathanael Greene, Horatio Gates, Benedict Arnold and Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben have worn cement shoes? "Even more funny coming from someone who at first idolises the concept of freedom and independence" to build their new state on the Slave Trade and not give rights to African, Hispanics, Native Americans etc.

But I guess you pick and choice as to what is treason and what isn't. You're a bit of a hypocrite I say.

Iriqi i Tiranës

pre 13 godina

This is exactly what the mafia/organized crime would do!
(Roger7, 10 January 2011 22:25)

I just wonder, why are they "intelligent" to such self-incriminating degree. Looks like the education system under Comrade Enver had it's imperfections.

AdamNYC

pre 13 godina

To truth,
isn't a UDI treasonous by definition?
(question, 10 January 2011 20:38)

treasonous to what? serbia and its govt? formed AFTER kosovo's loss? that that specifically held no authority whatsover over kosovo? That has never held kosovo its its existance? Its constitution re-authored ...several times mind you, based on that wich was hand authored by a lunatic... without the input, participation or permission of kosovo or kosovars? the only thing kosovo owed serbia is its contempt.

Serbia is a nation built by a violent dictator and lunatic. that he turned on them in the end changes nothing. Serbs loved everything he tried to create and it was they who deserted their allegiance and duty to what yugoslavia was for the Failed Dream of a Greater serbia.

the toilet paper of a constitution they wave about as a source of deluded relevance is a worthless self gratifying piece of fiction.

The Swiss

pre 13 godina

"There are no laws that protect witnesses in Kosovo. There is no protection, and all this in a system where the judiciary is not independent and is seized by corruption," Gardetto told the newspaper.

Woundering now by whom this guy was paid to make this report..., it looks like the complete COE is corrupted,let's wait until all are going to Moscow to cash their checks, or maybe at the end this report really reflects the reality...
No,no, it must be Serbian propaganda...
Ahhhh, let's wait what will come out after the presentation to the 27 european countries forming the COE...., maybe foggy frisco has a friend there to give us some hints...

Mike

pre 13 godina

"Here is the definition of "treason": "Treason is any attempt to overthrow the government or impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government" (The Truth)

-- Funny. Wasn't it the KLA that was acting "trasonous" against the government of Serbia since Kosovo was/is/whatever part of its territory? By your own provided definition, Thaci, Haradinaj and the rest ought to be the ones wearing cement shoes. Nasty thing about that understanding of "treason": it's usually understood as such by those on the other side of those composing some sort of declaration of independence. Even more funny coming from someone who at first idolizes the concept of freedom and independence for one's side and the seeks to throw the heavy hand of the law and punishment in an effort to deny it for others or stifle criticism against one's institutions.

Give my regards to the Tea Party and Caribou Barbie if you see her.

Top

pre 13 godina

"Commit treason and you run the risk of wearing cement shoes and tossed into a river. I have no love lost for such people Serbian or Albanian. "

Support Kosova 150%!! Happy New Year Kosova!
(The Truth Chicago, 10 January 2011 17:56)

Hey, aren't you a bit late? The good old times of mafia in Chicago are over since 80-90 years. Better move to Kosovo, the mafia methods you like so much are common there, in this democratic and multi ethnic dream state! Even nowadays!

JohnBoy

pre 13 godina

Oh nooo. Another european official admitting that kosovo is a criminal pseudo-state. If the us is involved in the talks, so should the Russians and Chinese be involved.

JohnBoy (from Chicago)

The Truth Chicago

pre 13 godina

@Question.

I disagree with your presumption. In the USA we adopted whats known as the "Declaration of Independance". If you're not familiar with it, please look it up. Its only one of the most important documents of American history. The United States Declaration of Independence is a statement adopted by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776, which announced that the thirteen American colonies then at war with Great Britain were now independent states, and thus no longer a part of the British Empire. Written primarily by Thomas Jefferson, the Declaration is a formal explanation of why Congress had voted on July 2 to declare independence from Great Britain, more than a year after the outbreak of the American Revolutionary War.

Its not known as the "Unilateral Declaration of Independance" Most, people dont argue with the reasons behind the declaration because it was for the good of the citizens of the USA. Government is supposed to act on the "will" of the people and not against it. Serbia forfeited their right to Kosova the day Milosevic stood at Kosovo Polje and gave his stupid speech and revoked the autonomy. Dont act as if it was a shock or unexpected that the Kosovars took the drastic step of declaring their independance. According to your logic, a hostage(Kosovar) of a kidnapper/killer(Serbia) should not escape thru an open door if they have a chance to escape.

Your attempt at showing the Kosovar Albanians as "treasonous" to Serbia is laughable at best, if it werent for the real bodies of Kosovar Albanians in mass graves.

Its exactly this type of thinking and mindset that you exibit which got Serbia into trouble in the first place.

Roger7

pre 13 godina

"Commit treason and you run the risk of wearing cement shoes and tossed into a river."

This is exactly what the mafia/organized crime would do!

Amer

pre 13 godina

' "To my suprise no one is killed."
Was Ramus Haradinaj not freed from Hague after 10 of prosecution witnesses were killed, and 11th changed his plea? And that was before the Dick Marty's report, and while Albanians still believed they could get away with Kosovo independence. I can only imagine the man hunt going on right now.
(Sinke, 10 January 2011 12:38) "

He's talking about the nine from the Haradinaj case, two of whom are still alive, one of whom was killed by a drunk driver, and the others in relation to a 2002 clan feud case (or in unrelated bar fights) - that is, no, Ramus Haradinaj wasn't released because all the potential witnesses were killed off.

And what happened to any mention of the witnesses murdered in connection with the 2007 Djindjic trial? It's not as though Kosovo is the only place where testifying can be dangerous to one's health.

The Truth Chicago

pre 13 godina

Obviously there is no evidence or proof that these "killings" are taking place in the first place, Just because some people "say" these things doesnt qualify their words as "fact", but I fully support the punishment by death to those who would knowingly commit treason to Kosova. Treason is punishable by death in most countries including the USA. Here is the definition of "treason": "Treason is any attempt to overthrow the government or impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government"

Commit treason and you run the risk of wearing cement shoes and tossed into a river. I have no love lost for such people Serbian or Albanian.

Support Kosova 150%!! Happy New Year Kosova!

Mike C

pre 13 godina

This is old news. Albanians in Kosovo have used intimidation and killing of witnesses for ever. What's surprising is that America, UK, France, Germany and others haven't been able to make anything of their failed Kosovo project for the 10 years they have been incharge of the province. If they can't bring order, freedon and democracy to this small territory when will they succeed in Irak and Afghanistan?

Janez-Beograd

pre 13 godina

Obviously witness protection needs to established... but where the hell are EULEX and the Kosovo Police in all of this?
(Ian, UK, 10 January 2011 13:37)

Ian, wake up and smell the coffee. The 'Kosovo Police' are actually the KLA gone legit so they have no interest in protecting witnesses whose evidence may incriminate them. EULEX couldnt give a damn.

nikshala

pre 13 godina

the two witnesses that are named as being 'killed', who are alive and living in Peja and appeared live on TV, should go there when this report is presented so that they could wave to this guy and say 'Hi'. how embarrasing for the circles in CoE that have launched this recent political propaganda.

Velja

pre 13 godina

@PRS @ KOSOVO-USA
Guys, you assume that the reputed gentleman is not Gardetto,but Gardetić as well as a lot of Albanians assume that Dick Marty is Dick Martinović. By the way, Tachi will make lots of Albanians blush( make red)

PRN

pre 13 godina

"Witnesses are being killed in Kosovo"

Such idiots reports are having days numbered in hiding behind the immunity curtain. They know that this totally nonsense,...but money talks....

Serbia's blank cheques to such idiots may soon be turned as boomerang, as someone must pay the FINAL BILL.

Zoran

pre 13 godina

The sooner witness protection is up and running the sooner we'll start getting to the truth. I suspect there will be many ethnic Albanians ready to spill the beans once given an opportunity.

Sinke

pre 13 godina

"To my suprise no one is killed."
Was Ramus Haradinaj not freed from Hague after 10 of prosecution witnesses were killed, and 11th changed his plea? And that was before the Dick Marty's report, and while Albanians still believed they could get away with Kosovo independence. I can only imagine the man hunt going on right now.

Top

pre 13 godina

"The Monaco politician also stresses that, without the international community, Kosovo would not be in a position to ensure any kind of protection for endangered witnesses, as the Kosovo police does not have the necessary capacities."

Without the international community, there would be no Kosovo. And without EULEX, Kosovo would be a 100% clan state with no laws except the one of omerta.

UK

pre 13 godina

Once I read the headline, I couldn't wait to open and read the article. To my suprise no one is killed.
This is what I call a dirty propaganda with no substance whatsoever.Keep up the "GOOD" work

Had the word Serbia been substituted in place of the word Kosovo, I have no doubt you would have been full of belief and comments on the barbarity of the Serbs! Show some balance in your comments, just for once please.

Kosova-USA

pre 13 godina

"Witnesses are being killed in Kosovo"

Once I read the headline, I couldn't wait to open and read the article. To my suprise no one is killed.
This is what I call a dirty propaganda with no substance whatsoever.Keep up the "GOOD" work.

Sinke

pre 13 godina

"To my suprise no one is killed."
Was Ramus Haradinaj not freed from Hague after 10 of prosecution witnesses were killed, and 11th changed his plea? And that was before the Dick Marty's report, and while Albanians still believed they could get away with Kosovo independence. I can only imagine the man hunt going on right now.

Top

pre 13 godina

"The Monaco politician also stresses that, without the international community, Kosovo would not be in a position to ensure any kind of protection for endangered witnesses, as the Kosovo police does not have the necessary capacities."

Without the international community, there would be no Kosovo. And without EULEX, Kosovo would be a 100% clan state with no laws except the one of omerta.

Zoran

pre 13 godina

The sooner witness protection is up and running the sooner we'll start getting to the truth. I suspect there will be many ethnic Albanians ready to spill the beans once given an opportunity.

Mike C

pre 13 godina

This is old news. Albanians in Kosovo have used intimidation and killing of witnesses for ever. What's surprising is that America, UK, France, Germany and others haven't been able to make anything of their failed Kosovo project for the 10 years they have been incharge of the province. If they can't bring order, freedon and democracy to this small territory when will they succeed in Irak and Afghanistan?

UK

pre 13 godina

Once I read the headline, I couldn't wait to open and read the article. To my suprise no one is killed.
This is what I call a dirty propaganda with no substance whatsoever.Keep up the "GOOD" work

Had the word Serbia been substituted in place of the word Kosovo, I have no doubt you would have been full of belief and comments on the barbarity of the Serbs! Show some balance in your comments, just for once please.

Janez-Beograd

pre 13 godina

Obviously witness protection needs to established... but where the hell are EULEX and the Kosovo Police in all of this?
(Ian, UK, 10 January 2011 13:37)

Ian, wake up and smell the coffee. The 'Kosovo Police' are actually the KLA gone legit so they have no interest in protecting witnesses whose evidence may incriminate them. EULEX couldnt give a damn.

Velja

pre 13 godina

@PRS @ KOSOVO-USA
Guys, you assume that the reputed gentleman is not Gardetto,but Gardetić as well as a lot of Albanians assume that Dick Marty is Dick Martinović. By the way, Tachi will make lots of Albanians blush( make red)

Kosova-USA

pre 13 godina

"Witnesses are being killed in Kosovo"

Once I read the headline, I couldn't wait to open and read the article. To my suprise no one is killed.
This is what I call a dirty propaganda with no substance whatsoever.Keep up the "GOOD" work.

PRN

pre 13 godina

"Witnesses are being killed in Kosovo"

Such idiots reports are having days numbered in hiding behind the immunity curtain. They know that this totally nonsense,...but money talks....

Serbia's blank cheques to such idiots may soon be turned as boomerang, as someone must pay the FINAL BILL.

nikshala

pre 13 godina

the two witnesses that are named as being 'killed', who are alive and living in Peja and appeared live on TV, should go there when this report is presented so that they could wave to this guy and say 'Hi'. how embarrasing for the circles in CoE that have launched this recent political propaganda.

The Truth Chicago

pre 13 godina

Obviously there is no evidence or proof that these "killings" are taking place in the first place, Just because some people "say" these things doesnt qualify their words as "fact", but I fully support the punishment by death to those who would knowingly commit treason to Kosova. Treason is punishable by death in most countries including the USA. Here is the definition of "treason": "Treason is any attempt to overthrow the government or impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government"

Commit treason and you run the risk of wearing cement shoes and tossed into a river. I have no love lost for such people Serbian or Albanian.

Support Kosova 150%!! Happy New Year Kosova!

Amer

pre 13 godina

' "To my suprise no one is killed."
Was Ramus Haradinaj not freed from Hague after 10 of prosecution witnesses were killed, and 11th changed his plea? And that was before the Dick Marty's report, and while Albanians still believed they could get away with Kosovo independence. I can only imagine the man hunt going on right now.
(Sinke, 10 January 2011 12:38) "

He's talking about the nine from the Haradinaj case, two of whom are still alive, one of whom was killed by a drunk driver, and the others in relation to a 2002 clan feud case (or in unrelated bar fights) - that is, no, Ramus Haradinaj wasn't released because all the potential witnesses were killed off.

And what happened to any mention of the witnesses murdered in connection with the 2007 Djindjic trial? It's not as though Kosovo is the only place where testifying can be dangerous to one's health.

The Truth Chicago

pre 13 godina

@Question.

I disagree with your presumption. In the USA we adopted whats known as the "Declaration of Independance". If you're not familiar with it, please look it up. Its only one of the most important documents of American history. The United States Declaration of Independence is a statement adopted by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776, which announced that the thirteen American colonies then at war with Great Britain were now independent states, and thus no longer a part of the British Empire. Written primarily by Thomas Jefferson, the Declaration is a formal explanation of why Congress had voted on July 2 to declare independence from Great Britain, more than a year after the outbreak of the American Revolutionary War.

Its not known as the "Unilateral Declaration of Independance" Most, people dont argue with the reasons behind the declaration because it was for the good of the citizens of the USA. Government is supposed to act on the "will" of the people and not against it. Serbia forfeited their right to Kosova the day Milosevic stood at Kosovo Polje and gave his stupid speech and revoked the autonomy. Dont act as if it was a shock or unexpected that the Kosovars took the drastic step of declaring their independance. According to your logic, a hostage(Kosovar) of a kidnapper/killer(Serbia) should not escape thru an open door if they have a chance to escape.

Your attempt at showing the Kosovar Albanians as "treasonous" to Serbia is laughable at best, if it werent for the real bodies of Kosovar Albanians in mass graves.

Its exactly this type of thinking and mindset that you exibit which got Serbia into trouble in the first place.

JohnBoy

pre 13 godina

Oh nooo. Another european official admitting that kosovo is a criminal pseudo-state. If the us is involved in the talks, so should the Russians and Chinese be involved.

JohnBoy (from Chicago)

Roger7

pre 13 godina

"Commit treason and you run the risk of wearing cement shoes and tossed into a river."

This is exactly what the mafia/organized crime would do!

The Swiss

pre 13 godina

"There are no laws that protect witnesses in Kosovo. There is no protection, and all this in a system where the judiciary is not independent and is seized by corruption," Gardetto told the newspaper.

Woundering now by whom this guy was paid to make this report..., it looks like the complete COE is corrupted,let's wait until all are going to Moscow to cash their checks, or maybe at the end this report really reflects the reality...
No,no, it must be Serbian propaganda...
Ahhhh, let's wait what will come out after the presentation to the 27 european countries forming the COE...., maybe foggy frisco has a friend there to give us some hints...

Licemer

pre 13 godina

But I guess you pick and choice as to what is treason and what isn't. You're a bit of a hypocrite I say.
(Ian, UK, 11 January 2011 13:16)

Biggest hypocrites in the world are not Americans, but British mate. Just face it, nearly in every country you went you created problems. Just to name few: India, Pakistan, Palestine, Iraq.

Unfortunately, Americans inherited lot of these "moral principles" from you.

Did you know that British invented concentration camps, much before Germans? They used to introduce disease like small pox among the Indians and wiped out complete tribes.

Mike

pre 13 godina

"Here is the definition of "treason": "Treason is any attempt to overthrow the government or impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government" (The Truth)

-- Funny. Wasn't it the KLA that was acting "trasonous" against the government of Serbia since Kosovo was/is/whatever part of its territory? By your own provided definition, Thaci, Haradinaj and the rest ought to be the ones wearing cement shoes. Nasty thing about that understanding of "treason": it's usually understood as such by those on the other side of those composing some sort of declaration of independence. Even more funny coming from someone who at first idolizes the concept of freedom and independence for one's side and the seeks to throw the heavy hand of the law and punishment in an effort to deny it for others or stifle criticism against one's institutions.

Give my regards to the Tea Party and Caribou Barbie if you see her.

Top

pre 13 godina

"Commit treason and you run the risk of wearing cement shoes and tossed into a river. I have no love lost for such people Serbian or Albanian. "

Support Kosova 150%!! Happy New Year Kosova!
(The Truth Chicago, 10 January 2011 17:56)

Hey, aren't you a bit late? The good old times of mafia in Chicago are over since 80-90 years. Better move to Kosovo, the mafia methods you like so much are common there, in this democratic and multi ethnic dream state! Even nowadays!

Question

pre 13 godina

Truth,
I'm glad you're well versed in your country's history. I too am as well versed. However you missed a big view point during your 5th grade history lesson. The US founding fathers were committing treason from the perspective of the English Crown. I noticed you failed to properly highlight the war of independence. This was the reciprocal action taken to a treasonous act by a colony. The British soldiers were defeated and an agreement was arranged afterwards.
Just for your clarification, considering you brought up the asinine example of a kidnapping situation, the definition for treason is something very much like this:
'In law, treason is the crime that covers some of the more serious acts of betrayal of one's sovereign or nation'. So unless the kidnapped has accepted the kidnapper as their sovereign while not under the duress of a kidnapping then yes it would be treasonous to either run or harm the kidnapper. That being said, I'd be surprised to find too many kidnapped victims whom have declared themselves subjects of the sovereign kidnapper.
So though you may tout the truth, you have been found wanting when it comes to logic and language. Know a word's meaning when you use it, otherwise you should offer thanks when you're corrected on how to use a word and what it means.
You're very welcome.
And yes, a state, province, municipality or city-state that leaves its nation without the expressed approval of said nation is commit treason. It is just that after a successful departure that treason is moot due to the new nature. It doesn't negate the original treasonous behavior.

Iriqi i Tiranës

pre 13 godina

This is exactly what the mafia/organized crime would do!
(Roger7, 10 January 2011 22:25)

I just wonder, why are they "intelligent" to such self-incriminating degree. Looks like the education system under Comrade Enver had it's imperfections.

Mike

pre 13 godina

"Funny isn't that what the Yanks did against the Kingdom of Great Britain during the War of American independence? Should the "terrorists" called George Washington, Nathanael Greene, Horatio Gates, Benedict Arnold and Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben have worn cement shoes?" (Ian UK)

-- Um, yes. What, you were expecting me to get offended by your attempt at reverse examples? By the definition provided, yes, the War for American Independence was seen as an act of treason by the Crown. All the names you mentioned save Arnold would have been seen as treasonous individuals had the British put down the "American Insurrection" as it probably would have been called. Benedict Arnold switched sides back to the Brits, so he's remembered as a "traitor" in our history (that's History 101 for us). There's no commemorative coins for him or landmark bearing his name. Additionally, yes I find it equally funny that for all the writings about the Rights of Man by the Founding Fathers, people of a certain skin color were regarded as 3/5 of a person and we were the last modern country to abolish slavery. Don't think I apply subjective history to one side because I despise the other. George Washington and the Founding Fathers are regarded as larger than life figures in the US, but had they lost the war, they'd have been more reviled in England than Guy Fawkes. One difference between our historical spat and the current hoohah in the Balkans is that after the conflict, a negotiated settlement was reached between both sides, making, as Question rightly states, "treason" null and void. And that still didn't keep you from setting fire to the White House in 1812, or from almost recognizing the Confederacy during the Civil War - which might I add perpetuated slavery :)

AdamNYC

pre 13 godina

To truth,
isn't a UDI treasonous by definition?
(question, 10 January 2011 20:38)

treasonous to what? serbia and its govt? formed AFTER kosovo's loss? that that specifically held no authority whatsover over kosovo? That has never held kosovo its its existance? Its constitution re-authored ...several times mind you, based on that wich was hand authored by a lunatic... without the input, participation or permission of kosovo or kosovars? the only thing kosovo owed serbia is its contempt.

Serbia is a nation built by a violent dictator and lunatic. that he turned on them in the end changes nothing. Serbs loved everything he tried to create and it was they who deserted their allegiance and duty to what yugoslavia was for the Failed Dream of a Greater serbia.

the toilet paper of a constitution they wave about as a source of deluded relevance is a worthless self gratifying piece of fiction.

Ian, UK

pre 13 godina

-- Funny. Wasn't it the KLA that was acting "trasonous" against the government of Serbia since Kosovo was/is/whatever part of its territory? By your own provided definition, Thaci, Haradinaj and the rest ought to be the ones wearing cement shoes. Nasty thing about that understanding of "treason": it's usually understood as such by those on the other side of those composing some sort of declaration of independence. Even more funny coming from someone who at first idolizes the concept of freedom and independence for one's side and the seeks to throw the heavy hand of the law and punishment in an effort to deny it for others or stifle criticism against one's institutions.

Give my regards to the Tea Party and Caribou Barbie if you see her.
(Mike, 11 January 2011 00:57)

Funny isn't that what the Yanks did against the Kingdom of Great Britain during the War of American independence? Should the "terrorists" called George Washington, Nathanael Greene, Horatio Gates, Benedict Arnold and Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben have worn cement shoes? "Even more funny coming from someone who at first idolises the concept of freedom and independence" to build their new state on the Slave Trade and not give rights to African, Hispanics, Native Americans etc.

But I guess you pick and choice as to what is treason and what isn't. You're a bit of a hypocrite I say.

Amer

pre 13 godina

"Funny isn't that what the Yanks did against the Kingdom of Great Britain during the War of American independence? Should the "terrorists" called George Washington, Nathanael Greene, Horatio Gates, Benedict Arnold and Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben have worn cement shoes? "

Von Steuben wasn't a British subject, so he couldn't be charged with treason, but yes, the others would have been, and realized it. As Ben Franklin said, "We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." They knew what the stakes were.

On the other hand, as our Founders put it in Declaration of Independence, when a government violates the rights of its people, they have a right to "alter or abolish it" - a government can lose its right to claim the allegiance of its citizens. After that, it's up to the lawyers and/or the military men.

Je¿ magiczny

pre 13 godina

Still waiting for Roberto's comment.
Are human rights one-sided?
(Joachim, 11 January 2011 18:36)

Just for you - your wish came true. Robot Berta is not 100% Roberto, but better than nothing:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=72046

Kosova-USA

pre 13 godina

"Witnesses are being killed in Kosovo"

Once I read the headline, I couldn't wait to open and read the article. To my suprise no one is killed.
This is what I call a dirty propaganda with no substance whatsoever.Keep up the "GOOD" work.

PRN

pre 13 godina

"Witnesses are being killed in Kosovo"

Such idiots reports are having days numbered in hiding behind the immunity curtain. They know that this totally nonsense,...but money talks....

Serbia's blank cheques to such idiots may soon be turned as boomerang, as someone must pay the FINAL BILL.

nikshala

pre 13 godina

the two witnesses that are named as being 'killed', who are alive and living in Peja and appeared live on TV, should go there when this report is presented so that they could wave to this guy and say 'Hi'. how embarrasing for the circles in CoE that have launched this recent political propaganda.

The Truth Chicago

pre 13 godina

Obviously there is no evidence or proof that these "killings" are taking place in the first place, Just because some people "say" these things doesnt qualify their words as "fact", but I fully support the punishment by death to those who would knowingly commit treason to Kosova. Treason is punishable by death in most countries including the USA. Here is the definition of "treason": "Treason is any attempt to overthrow the government or impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government"

Commit treason and you run the risk of wearing cement shoes and tossed into a river. I have no love lost for such people Serbian or Albanian.

Support Kosova 150%!! Happy New Year Kosova!

UK

pre 13 godina

Once I read the headline, I couldn't wait to open and read the article. To my suprise no one is killed.
This is what I call a dirty propaganda with no substance whatsoever.Keep up the "GOOD" work

Had the word Serbia been substituted in place of the word Kosovo, I have no doubt you would have been full of belief and comments on the barbarity of the Serbs! Show some balance in your comments, just for once please.

Top

pre 13 godina

"The Monaco politician also stresses that, without the international community, Kosovo would not be in a position to ensure any kind of protection for endangered witnesses, as the Kosovo police does not have the necessary capacities."

Without the international community, there would be no Kosovo. And without EULEX, Kosovo would be a 100% clan state with no laws except the one of omerta.

Mike C

pre 13 godina

This is old news. Albanians in Kosovo have used intimidation and killing of witnesses for ever. What's surprising is that America, UK, France, Germany and others haven't been able to make anything of their failed Kosovo project for the 10 years they have been incharge of the province. If they can't bring order, freedon and democracy to this small territory when will they succeed in Irak and Afghanistan?

Janez-Beograd

pre 13 godina

Obviously witness protection needs to established... but where the hell are EULEX and the Kosovo Police in all of this?
(Ian, UK, 10 January 2011 13:37)

Ian, wake up and smell the coffee. The 'Kosovo Police' are actually the KLA gone legit so they have no interest in protecting witnesses whose evidence may incriminate them. EULEX couldnt give a damn.

Velja

pre 13 godina

@PRS @ KOSOVO-USA
Guys, you assume that the reputed gentleman is not Gardetto,but Gardetić as well as a lot of Albanians assume that Dick Marty is Dick Martinović. By the way, Tachi will make lots of Albanians blush( make red)

The Truth Chicago

pre 13 godina

@Question.

I disagree with your presumption. In the USA we adopted whats known as the "Declaration of Independance". If you're not familiar with it, please look it up. Its only one of the most important documents of American history. The United States Declaration of Independence is a statement adopted by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776, which announced that the thirteen American colonies then at war with Great Britain were now independent states, and thus no longer a part of the British Empire. Written primarily by Thomas Jefferson, the Declaration is a formal explanation of why Congress had voted on July 2 to declare independence from Great Britain, more than a year after the outbreak of the American Revolutionary War.

Its not known as the "Unilateral Declaration of Independance" Most, people dont argue with the reasons behind the declaration because it was for the good of the citizens of the USA. Government is supposed to act on the "will" of the people and not against it. Serbia forfeited their right to Kosova the day Milosevic stood at Kosovo Polje and gave his stupid speech and revoked the autonomy. Dont act as if it was a shock or unexpected that the Kosovars took the drastic step of declaring their independance. According to your logic, a hostage(Kosovar) of a kidnapper/killer(Serbia) should not escape thru an open door if they have a chance to escape.

Your attempt at showing the Kosovar Albanians as "treasonous" to Serbia is laughable at best, if it werent for the real bodies of Kosovar Albanians in mass graves.

Its exactly this type of thinking and mindset that you exibit which got Serbia into trouble in the first place.

Zoran

pre 13 godina

The sooner witness protection is up and running the sooner we'll start getting to the truth. I suspect there will be many ethnic Albanians ready to spill the beans once given an opportunity.

AdamNYC

pre 13 godina

To truth,
isn't a UDI treasonous by definition?
(question, 10 January 2011 20:38)

treasonous to what? serbia and its govt? formed AFTER kosovo's loss? that that specifically held no authority whatsover over kosovo? That has never held kosovo its its existance? Its constitution re-authored ...several times mind you, based on that wich was hand authored by a lunatic... without the input, participation or permission of kosovo or kosovars? the only thing kosovo owed serbia is its contempt.

Serbia is a nation built by a violent dictator and lunatic. that he turned on them in the end changes nothing. Serbs loved everything he tried to create and it was they who deserted their allegiance and duty to what yugoslavia was for the Failed Dream of a Greater serbia.

the toilet paper of a constitution they wave about as a source of deluded relevance is a worthless self gratifying piece of fiction.

Amer

pre 13 godina

' "To my suprise no one is killed."
Was Ramus Haradinaj not freed from Hague after 10 of prosecution witnesses were killed, and 11th changed his plea? And that was before the Dick Marty's report, and while Albanians still believed they could get away with Kosovo independence. I can only imagine the man hunt going on right now.
(Sinke, 10 January 2011 12:38) "

He's talking about the nine from the Haradinaj case, two of whom are still alive, one of whom was killed by a drunk driver, and the others in relation to a 2002 clan feud case (or in unrelated bar fights) - that is, no, Ramus Haradinaj wasn't released because all the potential witnesses were killed off.

And what happened to any mention of the witnesses murdered in connection with the 2007 Djindjic trial? It's not as though Kosovo is the only place where testifying can be dangerous to one's health.

Sinke

pre 13 godina

"To my suprise no one is killed."
Was Ramus Haradinaj not freed from Hague after 10 of prosecution witnesses were killed, and 11th changed his plea? And that was before the Dick Marty's report, and while Albanians still believed they could get away with Kosovo independence. I can only imagine the man hunt going on right now.

Roger7

pre 13 godina

"Commit treason and you run the risk of wearing cement shoes and tossed into a river."

This is exactly what the mafia/organized crime would do!

JohnBoy

pre 13 godina

Oh nooo. Another european official admitting that kosovo is a criminal pseudo-state. If the us is involved in the talks, so should the Russians and Chinese be involved.

JohnBoy (from Chicago)

Ian, UK

pre 13 godina

-- Funny. Wasn't it the KLA that was acting "trasonous" against the government of Serbia since Kosovo was/is/whatever part of its territory? By your own provided definition, Thaci, Haradinaj and the rest ought to be the ones wearing cement shoes. Nasty thing about that understanding of "treason": it's usually understood as such by those on the other side of those composing some sort of declaration of independence. Even more funny coming from someone who at first idolizes the concept of freedom and independence for one's side and the seeks to throw the heavy hand of the law and punishment in an effort to deny it for others or stifle criticism against one's institutions.

Give my regards to the Tea Party and Caribou Barbie if you see her.
(Mike, 11 January 2011 00:57)

Funny isn't that what the Yanks did against the Kingdom of Great Britain during the War of American independence? Should the "terrorists" called George Washington, Nathanael Greene, Horatio Gates, Benedict Arnold and Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben have worn cement shoes? "Even more funny coming from someone who at first idolises the concept of freedom and independence" to build their new state on the Slave Trade and not give rights to African, Hispanics, Native Americans etc.

But I guess you pick and choice as to what is treason and what isn't. You're a bit of a hypocrite I say.

Top

pre 13 godina

"Commit treason and you run the risk of wearing cement shoes and tossed into a river. I have no love lost for such people Serbian or Albanian. "

Support Kosova 150%!! Happy New Year Kosova!
(The Truth Chicago, 10 January 2011 17:56)

Hey, aren't you a bit late? The good old times of mafia in Chicago are over since 80-90 years. Better move to Kosovo, the mafia methods you like so much are common there, in this democratic and multi ethnic dream state! Even nowadays!

Mike

pre 13 godina

"Here is the definition of "treason": "Treason is any attempt to overthrow the government or impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government" (The Truth)

-- Funny. Wasn't it the KLA that was acting "trasonous" against the government of Serbia since Kosovo was/is/whatever part of its territory? By your own provided definition, Thaci, Haradinaj and the rest ought to be the ones wearing cement shoes. Nasty thing about that understanding of "treason": it's usually understood as such by those on the other side of those composing some sort of declaration of independence. Even more funny coming from someone who at first idolizes the concept of freedom and independence for one's side and the seeks to throw the heavy hand of the law and punishment in an effort to deny it for others or stifle criticism against one's institutions.

Give my regards to the Tea Party and Caribou Barbie if you see her.

Question

pre 13 godina

Truth,
I'm glad you're well versed in your country's history. I too am as well versed. However you missed a big view point during your 5th grade history lesson. The US founding fathers were committing treason from the perspective of the English Crown. I noticed you failed to properly highlight the war of independence. This was the reciprocal action taken to a treasonous act by a colony. The British soldiers were defeated and an agreement was arranged afterwards.
Just for your clarification, considering you brought up the asinine example of a kidnapping situation, the definition for treason is something very much like this:
'In law, treason is the crime that covers some of the more serious acts of betrayal of one's sovereign or nation'. So unless the kidnapped has accepted the kidnapper as their sovereign while not under the duress of a kidnapping then yes it would be treasonous to either run or harm the kidnapper. That being said, I'd be surprised to find too many kidnapped victims whom have declared themselves subjects of the sovereign kidnapper.
So though you may tout the truth, you have been found wanting when it comes to logic and language. Know a word's meaning when you use it, otherwise you should offer thanks when you're corrected on how to use a word and what it means.
You're very welcome.
And yes, a state, province, municipality or city-state that leaves its nation without the expressed approval of said nation is commit treason. It is just that after a successful departure that treason is moot due to the new nature. It doesn't negate the original treasonous behavior.

Iriqi i Tiranës

pre 13 godina

This is exactly what the mafia/organized crime would do!
(Roger7, 10 January 2011 22:25)

I just wonder, why are they "intelligent" to such self-incriminating degree. Looks like the education system under Comrade Enver had it's imperfections.

Amer

pre 13 godina

"Funny isn't that what the Yanks did against the Kingdom of Great Britain during the War of American independence? Should the "terrorists" called George Washington, Nathanael Greene, Horatio Gates, Benedict Arnold and Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben have worn cement shoes? "

Von Steuben wasn't a British subject, so he couldn't be charged with treason, but yes, the others would have been, and realized it. As Ben Franklin said, "We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." They knew what the stakes were.

On the other hand, as our Founders put it in Declaration of Independence, when a government violates the rights of its people, they have a right to "alter or abolish it" - a government can lose its right to claim the allegiance of its citizens. After that, it's up to the lawyers and/or the military men.

The Swiss

pre 13 godina

"There are no laws that protect witnesses in Kosovo. There is no protection, and all this in a system where the judiciary is not independent and is seized by corruption," Gardetto told the newspaper.

Woundering now by whom this guy was paid to make this report..., it looks like the complete COE is corrupted,let's wait until all are going to Moscow to cash their checks, or maybe at the end this report really reflects the reality...
No,no, it must be Serbian propaganda...
Ahhhh, let's wait what will come out after the presentation to the 27 european countries forming the COE...., maybe foggy frisco has a friend there to give us some hints...

Licemer

pre 13 godina

But I guess you pick and choice as to what is treason and what isn't. You're a bit of a hypocrite I say.
(Ian, UK, 11 January 2011 13:16)

Biggest hypocrites in the world are not Americans, but British mate. Just face it, nearly in every country you went you created problems. Just to name few: India, Pakistan, Palestine, Iraq.

Unfortunately, Americans inherited lot of these "moral principles" from you.

Did you know that British invented concentration camps, much before Germans? They used to introduce disease like small pox among the Indians and wiped out complete tribes.

Mike

pre 13 godina

"Funny isn't that what the Yanks did against the Kingdom of Great Britain during the War of American independence? Should the "terrorists" called George Washington, Nathanael Greene, Horatio Gates, Benedict Arnold and Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben have worn cement shoes?" (Ian UK)

-- Um, yes. What, you were expecting me to get offended by your attempt at reverse examples? By the definition provided, yes, the War for American Independence was seen as an act of treason by the Crown. All the names you mentioned save Arnold would have been seen as treasonous individuals had the British put down the "American Insurrection" as it probably would have been called. Benedict Arnold switched sides back to the Brits, so he's remembered as a "traitor" in our history (that's History 101 for us). There's no commemorative coins for him or landmark bearing his name. Additionally, yes I find it equally funny that for all the writings about the Rights of Man by the Founding Fathers, people of a certain skin color were regarded as 3/5 of a person and we were the last modern country to abolish slavery. Don't think I apply subjective history to one side because I despise the other. George Washington and the Founding Fathers are regarded as larger than life figures in the US, but had they lost the war, they'd have been more reviled in England than Guy Fawkes. One difference between our historical spat and the current hoohah in the Balkans is that after the conflict, a negotiated settlement was reached between both sides, making, as Question rightly states, "treason" null and void. And that still didn't keep you from setting fire to the White House in 1812, or from almost recognizing the Confederacy during the Civil War - which might I add perpetuated slavery :)

Je¿ magiczny

pre 13 godina

Still waiting for Roberto's comment.
Are human rights one-sided?
(Joachim, 11 January 2011 18:36)

Just for you - your wish came true. Robot Berta is not 100% Roberto, but better than nothing:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=72046