Reportedly “dead" witnesses in Haradinaj’s case alive

Hmm, if the sentence:

"They underscored that they had nothing to do with the proceedings against Haradinaj, that they were not witnesses in the case and that they lived a peaceful life in Peć."

is true, then what else can they be but different persons with the same name? It must be easy to find out if there have been a call for witnesses with these names in the case by the ICTY.

Another link about Ramiz Muriqi from 2005:

http://iwpr.net/report-news/investigation-kosovo%E2%80%99s-wild-west

"Ramiz Muriqi, a tall man in his fifties, looks scared and isolated in his flat in Peja, about 80 kilometres west of Kosovo’s capital Pristina."

"I’m tired of watching my back all the time, worrying that I’m next in line to be shot,” said Muriqi, with two cell phones, an automatic pistol and two spare magazines hanging from his belt."

Serbian propaganda got it wrong, how is that possible?

Well, why didn't Ramiz Muriqi display his surprise and amazement already earlier, for example in 2003, when Albanian language daily newspaper Bota Sot, published in Prishtina, wrote this in November 25 (2003):

"The first judicial process in Kosovo against those that have committed crimes during the war and after seems to be unfinished. Unfortunately, although justice has spoken, "deputies" of the crime seem to be determined to continue the criminal activities to the end. These executors of these crimes, that still stroll around freely in Dukagjin and in Kosovo, have on their "black list" all living witnesses of the so-called "Dukagjini Process" which was held at the end of last year.

"Those that remember the trial against the "Dukagjini Group" know that the main witnesses [..] have been Col. Tahir Zemaj, Ilir Selimaj, Vesel Muriqi, and Ramiz Muriqi etc. [...] Three of these personalities have been murdered: Tahir Zemaj, Ilir Selimaj and Sebahate Tolaj; while there have been several attempts to kill Ramiz Muriqi."

One of my guesses is that as Ramiz and Samik Muriqi are very common Albanian names, there exists either intentional or unintentional mixing up or play with names and identities. Who can verify that court witness Ramiz Muriqi is the same person as the Ramiz Muriqi giving statement today?

Original link for the document writen by Jean Charles Gardetto:

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/WorkingDocs/Doc10/EDOC12440.pdf

Sadik and Vesel Muriqi are mentioned in the report not Ramiz Muriqi. Ramiz Muriqi is right to say that he is alive. I am not sure who was the second one?

"...they were very surprised and distraught by lies stated in the report."

"They underscored that they had nothing to do with the proceedings against Haradinaj,"

" that they were not witnesses in the case and that they lived a peaceful life in Peć.

How BAD can that be for Dick and Co...?

These lies are pathetic. The smearing of Kosovo's image, people, and leaders is ridiculous.

The truth will come out....

well, well... Even the Council of Europe believes the nonsense coming from Serbian 'intelligence' about Haradinaj. And like the propaganda masters they seem to care not at all for facts.

so... have they been witnesses in the case or not???

(Peggy, 8 January 2011 20:58)


You should ask your goverment in belgrade where more than thousand albanian wich are missing are located? The Racak masacre is just a small part on what Serbia did against K.albanians.

The truth will be told and we will se who is responsible for what. Kosovo will allways prevail because we got moral and law behind us. UCK was an liberation army wich operated in Kosovo against Serbian repression. And every human being on earth knows about the Serbian repression. The Balkan war occured in Sarajevo,Vukovar and Prishtina but not in Belgrade. That says it all...

Hahahaha this guy is even dumber than Dick Marty. That's what happens when you listen to Serbian prosecutors, as B92 found out with the story on Sali Berisha's' Tirana compound' (that he never had).

Another witness was 'killed' by a drunk driver in Montengro. And the driver was a Serb. The Musaj brothers were killed but for different reasons, in local mafia turf-wars and vendetta killings after the war and before law and order was established.

What a surprise. Claims that witnesses in the Haradinaj case were murdered turns out to be a lie. Perhaps people should have realised this when the ICTY spokesperson clearly stated that NO witnesses in the Haradinaj case had been killed.

Of course, facts should never get in the way of propaganda, should they.

It is obvious that CoE is deeply manipulated by Russia.

Of course, facts should never get in the way of propaganda, should they.
(Rob, 8 January 2011 18:08)
====================

Exactly, just look at the way it worked in the famous "Racak Massacre" or "Markale Massacre" in Sarajevo.
Truth had no place there.

Peoples identity in Albania is often exchanged. Families are so big they forget each others names. Who knows who these guys are.

To albanian posters:

Can you concentrate on topic of this post and explain who are those people who appered today, Ramiz, Sadik or Vesel? Ramiz and Sadik can not be brothers only cousins and same for Ramiz and Vesel, the can not be cousins.

Both Ramiz and Vesel were witneses against Dukagjini group, so they know a lot about Ramush Haradinaj. So somebody is lying here.

Please do not be just ignorant and help us to solve this mistery. It is interest of everyone that real truth is found. Many times because of your nationality you try to ignore the facts and you say something different even you know that is not true.

War is finnished you have your state but ignoring facts, and lying, you dont show that you are mature to run multiethnic state.

To albanian posters:

Can you concentrate on topic of this post and explain who are those people who appered today, Ramiz, Sadik or Vesel? Ramiz and Sadik can not be brothers only cousins and same for Ramiz and Vesel, the can not be cousins.

Both Ramiz and Vesel were witneses against Dukagjini group, so they know a lot about Ramush Haradinaj. So somebody is lying here.

Please do not be just ignorant and help us to solve this mistery. It is interest of everyone that real truth is found. Many times because of your nationality you try to ignore the facts and you say something different even you know that is not true.

War is finnished you have your state but ignoring facts, and lying, you dont show that you are mature to run multiethnic state.

Vesel Muriqi (Veselin Todorovic) and Ramiz Muriqi were collaborated with Serbs and they are cousins not brothers. Link in Albanian:

http://diskutime-shqiptare.fr-bb.com/t252-kush-eshte-vesel-muriqi

Something funny is going here. Albanian newspapers talking about Vesel Muriqi and Sadik Muriqi, B92 about Ramiz and Sadiq Muriqi.

I just wonder which names are mentioned in original report?

See below:

``In the internationally-run trial in Pristina, five former members of the Kosovo Liberation Army, KLA, the dominant Albanian guerrilla force in the conflict with the Serbs, were convicted of abducting, torturing and killing four members of a smaller rival Albanian group, the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kosovo, FARK, in June 1999 as the conflict drew to an end.''

"The “Dukagjini group”, as the convicted men were called, consisted of Ramush Ahmetaj, Idriz Balaj, Ahmet Elshani, Bekim Zekaj, and Daut Haradinaj – the latter the brother of Ramush Hardinaj, a leading KLA commander during the conflict who was appointed prime minister of Kosovo in December 2004. They received jail terms of between three and 15 years.''

``Prosecution witnesses at the trial included Ramiz Muriqi, his cousin Vesel, Sadik Musaj whose funeral Ramiz has just attended, FARK’s commander-in-chief Tahir Zemaj, and former KLA member Ilir Selimaj."

Who knows who are these guys who apperead today at Kohavision. Probably as Olli sugested different people or they are scared to death and they were forced to come.

In my opinion another attempt by Albanians to discredit original report by Jean Charles Gardetto.

Come on guys show some responsibility here. As a Serb, I apologies to you for everything what has been done to Albanians during Kosovo war. I even had two good friends in the army (Florin Krasniqi and Samir Sadiqu both from Pristina). I even saved Florin when he was beaten by two Slovenians in the army in 1987, so if you know him by any chance you can ask him.

But what are you trying to do here on Serbian B92 website is really bad. You always try to minimize crimes committed by Albanians. Because of your nationality, you do everything to undermine any investigation and always turn on how you suffered under Serbs. So you are always off the topic, please do not do that. We, Serbs had also casualties little bit smaller that you but still big casualties assuming how many Serbs lived in Kosovo.

Before you post any new comment just remember Mother Theresa.

I am Ramiz Muriqi's son. Ramiz Muriqi is cousins with Sadik and Vesel Muriqi and Sadik and Vesel are not brothers. Were close cousins we are one family. Just to inform all of you not to mix there names Ramiz (Bale) Muriqi, Sadik (Bajram) Muriqi, Vesel (Jashar) Muriqi. In the original report they mention that Sadik and Vesel Muriqi are killed protected witnesses from Haga. This is not true my father Ramiz Muriqi and Sadik Muriqi told Kohavision that Sadik and Vesel Muriqi are alive Vesel was not in Peja that night to be on TV. Vesel Muriqi lives in Peja (Kosova) with his family so do Ramiz and Sadik Muriqi. Ramiz and Vesel Muriqi were witnesses in Kosova against "Dukagjini Group" and that court has ended. They never were witnesses in Haga they never got called to witness in Haga none of these three Ramiz, Sadik and Vesel MURIQI. Thats why Ramiz and Sadik Muriqi told Kohavision that there alive the three of them and that they never had something to do with Haga. This is just a lie just like Dick Marty's lying that UçK (KLA) sold human organs.

The paragraph in question: "130. Moreover, where a witness does come forward, there is a real threat of retaliation. This may not
necessarily put them in direct danger, losing their job for example, but there are also examples of key
witnesses being murdered. The trial of Ramush Haradinaj, the former leader of the Kosovo Liberation Army,
illustrates this. Haradinaj was indicted by the ICTY for crimes committed during the war in Kosovo but was
subsequently acquitted. In its judgment, the Tribunal highlighted the difficulties that it had had in obtaining
evidence from the 100 prosecution witnesses. Thirty-four witnesses were granted protection measures and
18 had to be issued with summonses. A number of witnesses who were going to give evidence at the trial
were murdered. This included Sadik and Vesel Muriqi, both of whom had been placed under a protection
programme by the ICTY."

It's almost identical to one that appears in a Serbian uber-nationalist site. Bye Bye CoE. Try again

Another witness was killed...but by a drunk driver in Montenegro and the driver was actually a Serb.

Muriqi,

You wrote: "[Vesel Muriqi] gave false testimony against Haradinaj."

Muriqi, I've been studing this case rather long time, and therefore I will claim that what you write isn't true.

Going back to the article, I believe what we have here is a mix up on names. Brothers Vesel Muriqi and Sadik Musiqi are different persons than Vesel Muriqi (who was kidnapped by the Haradinaj clan but managed to escape) and Sadik Musaj (who was killed, very likely by the Haradinaj clan).

The clan feuds between the Haradinaj and the Musiqi families, as well as between the Haradinaj and the Musaj families, are also a war between KLA and FARK.

The more I understand the thinking and ways of Albanians, the more I consider that Serbia should feel lucky that Kosovo Albanians formed their own state.

Veselin Todorovic (Vesel Muriqi) did fear for his life but it was for the 'funny business' he and his family were involved in post-war. So, fearing his partners in crime, he took Serbia's offer of $$ and gave false testimony against Haradinaj. He also went on to live in Serbia and changed his name. Now that the BIA money has run out, he changed his mind again because people he falsely accused don't forget certain things. Nor should they.

But he is a alive so COE has no credibility. Nor does a person that takes money to provide 'evidence' and changes his name and mind as the wind blows.

Who knows who are these guys who apperead today at Kohavision. Probably as Olli sugested different people or they are scared to death and they were forced to come.

In my opinion another attempt by Albanians to discredit original report by Jean Charles Gardetto.
(Veselin Todorovic, 8 January 2011 22:52)

If you know so much , why is it so hard to recognize Sadik and Ramiz Muriqi? They are the same guys you are talking about.
Garddet report speaks about Vesel and sadik Muriqi, and they are alive and having fun. Vesel tends to spend more time in Montenegro, since his mom is from there.
I hope these guys have the guts to go to EC session and appear in person so as to tell these two(Marty and Garddet)in front of everybody, what a big liers they are.

"A very thorough investigation on who these people actually are is warranted and a very good explanation of why they have not come forward and announced they were alive when everyone thought they are dead"

I am alive and don't have to announce it! They went to the TV when the report called them dead. What do you want from them, let the stupid CoE rapporteur investigate his sources, not investigate people because they are live. There's a huge difference, one should be able to notice dead people from living ones. Was this report written in Serbia or Russia that he didn't know?

Serbia is in panic, Dick Marty is going to be surprised as well.

(Amer, 10 January 2011 03:13)

Oh wow Amer, thank you, I did not know that. After writing 300 articles on their capture, the start of the trial, and gruesome descriptions of cut heads and limbs and eyes, B92 does not see it fit to tell us that 5 of them were released, because, well, it was not true, the prosecution had no facts? Really do not like this type of journalism, where you start a story and do not follow it through.

BTW, a Hague spokeswoman (at the time of Haradinaj's acquittal) denied there had been 9 witnesses killed: http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=04&dd=10&nav_id=49272

The prosecution claimed only two witnesses refused to testify; they said nothing about killings. One of the two reluctant witnesses had been committed to a mental hospital, one had been transferred from a prison to the Hague, from where he escaped to North America.

To this date, I have yet to hear an official justification or even better to explain how come people claimed dead are alive?
(Ilir, 9 January 2011 17:47)
=========================

Sure, mix ups can happen and the living can be declared dead by mistake and the other way around but to make a mistake on many people is unlikely.

You mention DNA. Surely you already know that you can only compare DNA with something you have in the database already. Getting DNA samples from relatives might not be possible if they don't want to cooperate or a similar looking cousin might pose as the missing one and their DNA would fit that family.

So many things can happen if you want to be crooked. A very thorough investigation on who these people actually are is warranted and a very good explanation of why they have not come forward and announced they were alive when everyone thought they are dead. They can't claim ignorance as their own families have declared them dead but they were actually alive. Living with families who declared you dead is very strange.

Jean Charles Gardetto mentioned names of Sadik and Vesel Muriqi as murdered ones not Ramiz Muriqi. Correct me if I am wrong.

Anyone have a link to original report by Jean Charles Gardetto?

One of my guesses is that as Ramiz and Samik Muriqi are very common Albanian names, there exists either intentional or unintentional mixing up or play with names and identities. Who can verify that court witness Ramiz Muriqi is the same person as the Ramiz Muriqi giving statement today?
(Olli, 8 January 2011 18:28)
---------------------------

What are you telling me? Even date of birth and photos are “mix up” or “common” Albanian thing?
Not taking into account fingerprints and DNA.
Unquestionably the person who throws these accusations should make sure that innocent people aren’t caught up. To this date, I have yet to hear an official justification or even better to explain how come people claimed dead are alive?

"I am alive and don't have to announce it! They went to the TV when the report called them dead. What do you want from them, let the stupid CoE rapporteur investigate his sources, not investigate people because they are live."
=========================

Yes you should report it if you were declared dead by your relatives who you are still living with because filing a false report is a crime.
Would you want your relatives to go to jail for this crime if they made a mistake and you did not tell them that you are not a ghost?

So by allowing your relatives to lie to the police you are also an accomplice to that crime.
Now do you see why they should've come forward and straightened the whole thing up if in fact they are who they say they are?

Another link from UMNIK:
http://www.unmikonline.org/press/mon/lmm280800.html

TWO PEOPLE SHOT IN PEJA/PEC

Bota Sot as its main news today had a report on an attempted murder on Ramiz and Sadik Muriqi, which happened Sunday evening at about 1800 hours in Peja/Pec. The paper said that the incident happened near the railway station, when an unidentified person ambushed the vehicle of the victims, firing 29 bullets, of which 13 hit the vehicle. The attacker he escaped leaving the weapon behind.

The lives of both men are reportedly not in danger, although the situation of Sadik was said to be a bit more difficult.

The paper cited an international police officer referred to as officer Hill, saying that the attack was not politically motivated.

Besides the report, the paper features a photo of Ramiz Muriqi (one sixth of the page), wearing a KLA uniform.

here is the original report from the COE, indeed it is mentioned in article 130

130. Moreover, when a witness does come forward, there is a real threat of retaliation. This may not necessarily put them in direct danger, losing their job for example, but there are also examples of key witnesses being murdered. The trial of Ramush Haradinaj, the former leader of the Kosovo Liberation Army, well illustrates this. Mr Haradinaj was indicted by the ICTY for crimes committed during the war in Kosovo but was subsequently acquitted. In its judgment, the Tribunal highlighted the difficulties that it had had in obtaining evidence from the 100 prosecution witnesses. Thirty-four of them were granted protection measures and 18 had to be issued with summonses. A number of witnesses who were going to give evidence at the trial were murdered. These included Sadik and Vesel Muriqi, both of whom had been placed under a protection programme by the ICTY.

http://assembly.coe.int/Main.asp?link=/Documents/WorkingDocs/Doc10/EDOC12440.htm

If you look further in google you will find that Ramiz went to the funeral of his friend Sadik Musaj in feb 2005, (after 3 murder attents) so indeed might be a few with same or closed names but this is not upto us to "decide", certainly it is not by coincidence that these two witnesses were mentionned in the COE report.

here another link in german

http://books.google.com/books?id=AmBrt9bb1XAC&pg=PA335&lpg=PA335&dq=sadik++vesel+muriqi&source=bl&ots=xkcSenZH_h&sig=dBlceyuiFcz_9_qxYBaZ4KFNxRc&hl=en&ei=qeQoTbfFMM_Fswao2-jFAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=sadik%20%20vesel%20muriqi&f=false

You should ask your goverment in belgrade where more than thousand albanian wich are missing are located? The Racak masacre is just a small part on what Serbia did against K.albanians.

The truth will be told and we will se who is responsible for what. Kosovo will allways prevail because we got moral and law behind us. UCK was an liberation army wich operated in Kosovo against Serbian repression. And every human being on earth knows about the Serbian repression. The Balkan war occured in Sarajevo,Vukovar and Prishtina but not in Belgrade. That says it all...
(Demi, 8 January 2011 21:54)

Hmm, everyone from UN investigators to Nato Generals called Racak a Hoax, as for the War not occuring in Belgrade, what planet are you from? Belgrade got bombed. Serbia will always prevail, they have Morals, Legality and Historical rights to Kosovo. And even if all that fails, they have military might and friends in high places to assist.

Anyone have a link to original report by Jean Charles Gardetto?
(Kosmet Freedom Army Fighter, 8 January 2011 22:18)

- There's a pdf at http://assembly.coe.int/ASP/NewsManager/EMB_NewsManagerView.asp?ID=5697 . Sadik and Vesel Muriq are mentioned in paragraph 130.

Hahaha, the Hague Tribunal is now back in Kosova to check this story, wipe egg from their faces. Jean was at 'Le Frog" when news arrived that he lied. This is going to be a fun discussion when they discuss it in late Jann. If you find out who is alive and who is dead, how reliable are you as a rapporteur? let's be honest people.


P.S. They were setup, to show how 'reliable' reports were done and to discredit them once in for all

---"Who knows who are these guys who apperead today at Kohavision. Probably as Olli sugested different people or they are scared to death and they were forced to come."

You have no idea. No one is scared to death because their name is identical to someone else, when everyone knows you. Believe it it or not, people don't kill others for no reason because they are consequences, police or not.

---"In my opinion another attempt by Albanians to discredit original report by Jean Charles Gardetto. "

Well, if he said that these two living people were killed for being witnesses, what do you want people to think about the accuracy of his report???

Dick Marty is next, Kardetto was easier because he was more specific and mentioned names.

Haradinaj is being retried for 'killing' these two people, by the way. He'll be out in less than a week and I hope he can sue the prosecutors for something.

This is beginning to seem to be a common problem with Serbian evidence - looked at closely, it turns out not to exist. There was apparently never any reason for charging Ganic, the evidence used to convict Jurisic had only been claimed, not presented in court because it too did not exist, five members of the Gnjilane 9 are released quietly just before the end of the trial for lack of evidence ... (It's not clear whether they were found innocent or simply let go.) http://www.pravda.rs/2011/01/03/srbija-popustljiva-prema-teroristima/ A little matter of confusing the living and the dead for some foreigner's report would be a minor matter in such a system.

This can be easily checked as Veseli Muriqi (Veselin Todorovic) has Serbian/Montenegrin mother. If Sadik Muriqi is his brother he should also have Serbian/Montenegrin mother. Or he is his half brother, same father different mothers?

Ramiz Muriqi is cousin of Sadik and Veseli.

Ramiz and Sadik Muriqi both survived assassination attempts, Veseli was kidnapped but managed to escape.

Haradinaj is being retried for 'killing' these two people, by the way. He'll be out in less than a week and I hope he can sue the prosecutors for something.
(Hmmmmm, 10 January 2011 00:18)

How do you know that Haradinaj is retried for killing these two people? Your assumption, or you know why he is being retried?

According from what I found, Vesel Muriq or Veselin Todorovic is from mixed marriege of Albanian father (Muriqi) and serb mother (Todorovic). This can be easily checked if these two persons who appered on Kohavision have the same serbian mother. Also, Ramiz is cousin of these two.

Before this goes out of hands:

In my previous comment I wrote name Sadik Musiqi (wrong) instead of Sadik Muriqi (correct). So, I brought a totally new person into this case. (Well, as much as I know a family name "Musiqi" doesn't exist in Albanian.)

I'm very sorry. Mistakes happen so easy. I believe we have similar issue concerning the case. What seems to be sure is that

1) Resent Vesel Muriqi and Sadik Muriqi are brothers
2) Sadik Muriqi isn't the killed witness Sadik Musaj
3 Witness Vesel Muriqi and killed Sadik Musaj weren't brothers

Most likely family names Muriqi and Musaj were mixed in the report.

Good one Albanians! This is the first step in fightin a PR war. Now this piece of news must be carried by Reuters, AFP, AP and flown to the far-flung corners of the Earth.

Come on guys make common story. One of you said that Veseli Muriqi is in Serbia, one that he is in Montenegro and he appears in Kosovo. Also, why Hague tribinual would not called somebody as a witness if that person was already witness in similar case against Daut Haradinaj in Kosovo? He was also member of FARK?

I am not for sure what is the case here: could be that Jean-Charles GARDETTO got it wrong or these guys are not the same ones as originaly published in his report.

I dont know anything about these guys just got interested last night after Olli has published his comments. All that information is available in english and albanian on internet, you need to google and translate.

Sure, mix ups can happen and the living can be declared dead by mistake and the other way around but to make a mistake on many people is unlikely
--------------------------------

I’m not saying it can’t happen, of course it can. However, we are talking about a serious report which took many months to be produced. Most certain, whoever conducted this report had more than enough time to at least get the basics right.
In my opinion someone who is alive is in much better position to prove his identity then someone who is “dead”..! If they fail to prove otherwise, this report will lose all the credibility and seriousness.

Another link from UMNIK:
http://www.unmikonline.org/press/mon/lmm280800.html

TWO PEOPLE SHOT IN PEJA/PEC

Bota Sot as its main news today had a report on an attempted murder on Ramiz and Sadik Muriqi, which happened Sunday evening at about 1800 hours in Peja/Pec. The paper said that the incident happened near the railway station, when an unidentified person ambushed the vehicle of the victims, firing 29 bullets, of which 13 hit the vehicle. The attacker he escaped leaving the weapon behind.

The lives of both men are reportedly not in danger, although the situation of Sadik was said to be a bit more difficult.

The paper cited an international police officer referred to as officer Hill, saying that the attack was not politically motivated.

Besides the report, the paper features a photo of Ramiz Muriqi (one sixth of the page), wearing a KLA uniform.

Hmm, everyone from UN investigators to Nato Generals called Racak a Hoax
(John, 9 January 2011 02:26)

I don't think so. Del Ponte included Racak in the indictment against Milosevic. If you are saying that an official indictement in a court of law was a hoax, than what should we call a book from the same person ?!

Of course, facts should never get in the way of propaganda, should they.
(Rob, 8 January 2011 18:08)
====================

Exactly, just look at the way it worked in the famous "Racak Massacre" or "Markale Massacre" in Sarajevo.
Truth had no place there.

These lies are pathetic. The smearing of Kosovo's image, people, and leaders is ridiculous.

The truth will come out....

Peoples identity in Albania is often exchanged. Families are so big they forget each others names. Who knows who these guys are.

well, well... Even the Council of Europe believes the nonsense coming from Serbian 'intelligence' about Haradinaj. And like the propaganda masters they seem to care not at all for facts.

Hahahaha this guy is even dumber than Dick Marty. That's what happens when you listen to Serbian prosecutors, as B92 found out with the story on Sali Berisha's' Tirana compound' (that he never had).

Another witness was 'killed' by a drunk driver in Montengro. And the driver was a Serb. The Musaj brothers were killed but for different reasons, in local mafia turf-wars and vendetta killings after the war and before law and order was established.

It is obvious that CoE is deeply manipulated by Russia.

"...they were very surprised and distraught by lies stated in the report."

"They underscored that they had nothing to do with the proceedings against Haradinaj,"

" that they were not witnesses in the case and that they lived a peaceful life in Peć.

How BAD can that be for Dick and Co...?

What a surprise. Claims that witnesses in the Haradinaj case were murdered turns out to be a lie. Perhaps people should have realised this when the ICTY spokesperson clearly stated that NO witnesses in the Haradinaj case had been killed.

Of course, facts should never get in the way of propaganda, should they.

Serbian propaganda got it wrong, how is that possible?

(Peggy, 8 January 2011 20:58)


You should ask your goverment in belgrade where more than thousand albanian wich are missing are located? The Racak masacre is just a small part on what Serbia did against K.albanians.

The truth will be told and we will se who is responsible for what. Kosovo will allways prevail because we got moral and law behind us. UCK was an liberation army wich operated in Kosovo against Serbian repression. And every human being on earth knows about the Serbian repression. The Balkan war occured in Sarajevo,Vukovar and Prishtina but not in Belgrade. That says it all...

Well, why didn't Ramiz Muriqi display his surprise and amazement already earlier, for example in 2003, when Albanian language daily newspaper Bota Sot, published in Prishtina, wrote this in November 25 (2003):

"The first judicial process in Kosovo against those that have committed crimes during the war and after seems to be unfinished. Unfortunately, although justice has spoken, "deputies" of the crime seem to be determined to continue the criminal activities to the end. These executors of these crimes, that still stroll around freely in Dukagjin and in Kosovo, have on their "black list" all living witnesses of the so-called "Dukagjini Process" which was held at the end of last year.

"Those that remember the trial against the "Dukagjini Group" know that the main witnesses [..] have been Col. Tahir Zemaj, Ilir Selimaj, Vesel Muriqi, and Ramiz Muriqi etc. [...] Three of these personalities have been murdered: Tahir Zemaj, Ilir Selimaj and Sebahate Tolaj; while there have been several attempts to kill Ramiz Muriqi."

One of my guesses is that as Ramiz and Samik Muriqi are very common Albanian names, there exists either intentional or unintentional mixing up or play with names and identities. Who can verify that court witness Ramiz Muriqi is the same person as the Ramiz Muriqi giving statement today?

To albanian posters:

Can you concentrate on topic of this post and explain who are those people who appered today, Ramiz, Sadik or Vesel? Ramiz and Sadik can not be brothers only cousins and same for Ramiz and Vesel, the can not be cousins.

Both Ramiz and Vesel were witneses against Dukagjini group, so they know a lot about Ramush Haradinaj. So somebody is lying here.

Please do not be just ignorant and help us to solve this mistery. It is interest of everyone that real truth is found. Many times because of your nationality you try to ignore the facts and you say something different even you know that is not true.

War is finnished you have your state but ignoring facts, and lying, you dont show that you are mature to run multiethnic state.

Jean Charles Gardetto mentioned names of Sadik and Vesel Muriqi as murdered ones not Ramiz Muriqi. Correct me if I am wrong.

Anyone have a link to original report by Jean Charles Gardetto?

To albanian posters:

Can you concentrate on topic of this post and explain who are those people who appered today, Ramiz, Sadik or Vesel? Ramiz and Sadik can not be brothers only cousins and same for Ramiz and Vesel, the can not be cousins.

Both Ramiz and Vesel were witneses against Dukagjini group, so they know a lot about Ramush Haradinaj. So somebody is lying here.

Please do not be just ignorant and help us to solve this mistery. It is interest of everyone that real truth is found. Many times because of your nationality you try to ignore the facts and you say something different even you know that is not true.

War is finnished you have your state but ignoring facts, and lying, you dont show that you are mature to run multiethnic state.

I am Ramiz Muriqi's son. Ramiz Muriqi is cousins with Sadik and Vesel Muriqi and Sadik and Vesel are not brothers. Were close cousins we are one family. Just to inform all of you not to mix there names Ramiz (Bale) Muriqi, Sadik (Bajram) Muriqi, Vesel (Jashar) Muriqi. In the original report they mention that Sadik and Vesel Muriqi are killed protected witnesses from Haga. This is not true my father Ramiz Muriqi and Sadik Muriqi told Kohavision that Sadik and Vesel Muriqi are alive Vesel was not in Peja that night to be on TV. Vesel Muriqi lives in Peja (Kosova) with his family so do Ramiz and Sadik Muriqi. Ramiz and Vesel Muriqi were witnesses in Kosova against "Dukagjini Group" and that court has ended. They never were witnesses in Haga they never got called to witness in Haga none of these three Ramiz, Sadik and Vesel MURIQI. Thats why Ramiz and Sadik Muriqi told Kohavision that there alive the three of them and that they never had something to do with Haga. This is just a lie just like Dick Marty's lying that UçK (KLA) sold human organs.

Vesel Muriqi (Veselin Todorovic) and Ramiz Muriqi were collaborated with Serbs and they are cousins not brothers. Link in Albanian:

http://diskutime-shqiptare.fr-bb.com/t252-kush-eshte-vesel-muriqi

Something funny is going here. Albanian newspapers talking about Vesel Muriqi and Sadik Muriqi, B92 about Ramiz and Sadiq Muriqi.

I just wonder which names are mentioned in original report?

See below:

``In the internationally-run trial in Pristina, five former members of the Kosovo Liberation Army, KLA, the dominant Albanian guerrilla force in the conflict with the Serbs, were convicted of abducting, torturing and killing four members of a smaller rival Albanian group, the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kosovo, FARK, in June 1999 as the conflict drew to an end.''

"The “Dukagjini group”, as the convicted men were called, consisted of Ramush Ahmetaj, Idriz Balaj, Ahmet Elshani, Bekim Zekaj, and Daut Haradinaj – the latter the brother of Ramush Hardinaj, a leading KLA commander during the conflict who was appointed prime minister of Kosovo in December 2004. They received jail terms of between three and 15 years.''

``Prosecution witnesses at the trial included Ramiz Muriqi, his cousin Vesel, Sadik Musaj whose funeral Ramiz has just attended, FARK’s commander-in-chief Tahir Zemaj, and former KLA member Ilir Selimaj."

Who knows who are these guys who apperead today at Kohavision. Probably as Olli sugested different people or they are scared to death and they were forced to come.

In my opinion another attempt by Albanians to discredit original report by Jean Charles Gardetto.

Hmm, if the sentence:

"They underscored that they had nothing to do with the proceedings against Haradinaj, that they were not witnesses in the case and that they lived a peaceful life in Peć."

is true, then what else can they be but different persons with the same name? It must be easy to find out if there have been a call for witnesses with these names in the case by the ICTY.

so... have they been witnesses in the case or not???

Another link about Ramiz Muriqi from 2005:

http://iwpr.net/report-news/investigation-kosovo%E2%80%99s-wild-west

"Ramiz Muriqi, a tall man in his fifties, looks scared and isolated in his flat in Peja, about 80 kilometres west of Kosovo’s capital Pristina."

"I’m tired of watching my back all the time, worrying that I’m next in line to be shot,” said Muriqi, with two cell phones, an automatic pistol and two spare magazines hanging from his belt."

Come on guys show some responsibility here. As a Serb, I apologies to you for everything what has been done to Albanians during Kosovo war. I even had two good friends in the army (Florin Krasniqi and Samir Sadiqu both from Pristina). I even saved Florin when he was beaten by two Slovenians in the army in 1987, so if you know him by any chance you can ask him.

But what are you trying to do here on Serbian B92 website is really bad. You always try to minimize crimes committed by Albanians. Because of your nationality, you do everything to undermine any investigation and always turn on how you suffered under Serbs. So you are always off the topic, please do not do that. We, Serbs had also casualties little bit smaller that you but still big casualties assuming how many Serbs lived in Kosovo.

Before you post any new comment just remember Mother Theresa.

Veselin Todorovic (Vesel Muriqi) did fear for his life but it was for the 'funny business' he and his family were involved in post-war. So, fearing his partners in crime, he took Serbia's offer of $$ and gave false testimony against Haradinaj. He also went on to live in Serbia and changed his name. Now that the BIA money has run out, he changed his mind again because people he falsely accused don't forget certain things. Nor should they.

But he is a alive so COE has no credibility. Nor does a person that takes money to provide 'evidence' and changes his name and mind as the wind blows.

You should ask your goverment in belgrade where more than thousand albanian wich are missing are located? The Racak masacre is just a small part on what Serbia did against K.albanians.

The truth will be told and we will se who is responsible for what. Kosovo will allways prevail because we got moral and law behind us. UCK was an liberation army wich operated in Kosovo against Serbian repression. And every human being on earth knows about the Serbian repression. The Balkan war occured in Sarajevo,Vukovar and Prishtina but not in Belgrade. That says it all...
(Demi, 8 January 2011 21:54)

Hmm, everyone from UN investigators to Nato Generals called Racak a Hoax, as for the War not occuring in Belgrade, what planet are you from? Belgrade got bombed. Serbia will always prevail, they have Morals, Legality and Historical rights to Kosovo. And even if all that fails, they have military might and friends in high places to assist.

Sure, mix ups can happen and the living can be declared dead by mistake and the other way around but to make a mistake on many people is unlikely
--------------------------------

I’m not saying it can’t happen, of course it can. However, we are talking about a serious report which took many months to be produced. Most certain, whoever conducted this report had more than enough time to at least get the basics right.
In my opinion someone who is alive is in much better position to prove his identity then someone who is “dead”..! If they fail to prove otherwise, this report will lose all the credibility and seriousness.

Who knows who are these guys who apperead today at Kohavision. Probably as Olli sugested different people or they are scared to death and they were forced to come.

In my opinion another attempt by Albanians to discredit original report by Jean Charles Gardetto.
(Veselin Todorovic, 8 January 2011 22:52)

If you know so much , why is it so hard to recognize Sadik and Ramiz Muriqi? They are the same guys you are talking about.
Garddet report speaks about Vesel and sadik Muriqi, and they are alive and having fun. Vesel tends to spend more time in Montenegro, since his mom is from there.
I hope these guys have the guts to go to EC session and appear in person so as to tell these two(Marty and Garddet)in front of everybody, what a big liers they are.

The paragraph in question: "130. Moreover, where a witness does come forward, there is a real threat of retaliation. This may not
necessarily put them in direct danger, losing their job for example, but there are also examples of key
witnesses being murdered. The trial of Ramush Haradinaj, the former leader of the Kosovo Liberation Army,
illustrates this. Haradinaj was indicted by the ICTY for crimes committed during the war in Kosovo but was
subsequently acquitted. In its judgment, the Tribunal highlighted the difficulties that it had had in obtaining
evidence from the 100 prosecution witnesses. Thirty-four witnesses were granted protection measures and
18 had to be issued with summonses. A number of witnesses who were going to give evidence at the trial
were murdered. This included Sadik and Vesel Muriqi, both of whom had been placed under a protection
programme by the ICTY."

It's almost identical to one that appears in a Serbian uber-nationalist site. Bye Bye CoE. Try again

Another witness was killed...but by a drunk driver in Montenegro and the driver was actually a Serb.

This is beginning to seem to be a common problem with Serbian evidence - looked at closely, it turns out not to exist. There was apparently never any reason for charging Ganic, the evidence used to convict Jurisic had only been claimed, not presented in court because it too did not exist, five members of the Gnjilane 9 are released quietly just before the end of the trial for lack of evidence ... (It's not clear whether they were found innocent or simply let go.) http://www.pravda.rs/2011/01/03/srbija-popustljiva-prema-teroristima/ A little matter of confusing the living and the dead for some foreigner's report would be a minor matter in such a system.

One of my guesses is that as Ramiz and Samik Muriqi are very common Albanian names, there exists either intentional or unintentional mixing up or play with names and identities. Who can verify that court witness Ramiz Muriqi is the same person as the Ramiz Muriqi giving statement today?
(Olli, 8 January 2011 18:28)
---------------------------

What are you telling me? Even date of birth and photos are “mix up” or “common” Albanian thing?
Not taking into account fingerprints and DNA.
Unquestionably the person who throws these accusations should make sure that innocent people aren’t caught up. To this date, I have yet to hear an official justification or even better to explain how come people claimed dead are alive?

To this date, I have yet to hear an official justification or even better to explain how come people claimed dead are alive?
(Ilir, 9 January 2011 17:47)
=========================

Sure, mix ups can happen and the living can be declared dead by mistake and the other way around but to make a mistake on many people is unlikely.

You mention DNA. Surely you already know that you can only compare DNA with something you have in the database already. Getting DNA samples from relatives might not be possible if they don't want to cooperate or a similar looking cousin might pose as the missing one and their DNA would fit that family.

So many things can happen if you want to be crooked. A very thorough investigation on who these people actually are is warranted and a very good explanation of why they have not come forward and announced they were alive when everyone thought they are dead. They can't claim ignorance as their own families have declared them dead but they were actually alive. Living with families who declared you dead is very strange.

---"Who knows who are these guys who apperead today at Kohavision. Probably as Olli sugested different people or they are scared to death and they were forced to come."

You have no idea. No one is scared to death because their name is identical to someone else, when everyone knows you. Believe it it or not, people don't kill others for no reason because they are consequences, police or not.

---"In my opinion another attempt by Albanians to discredit original report by Jean Charles Gardetto. "

Well, if he said that these two living people were killed for being witnesses, what do you want people to think about the accuracy of his report???

Dick Marty is next, Kardetto was easier because he was more specific and mentioned names.

Haradinaj is being retried for 'killing' these two people, by the way. He'll be out in less than a week and I hope he can sue the prosecutors for something.

"A very thorough investigation on who these people actually are is warranted and a very good explanation of why they have not come forward and announced they were alive when everyone thought they are dead"

I am alive and don't have to announce it! They went to the TV when the report called them dead. What do you want from them, let the stupid CoE rapporteur investigate his sources, not investigate people because they are live. There's a huge difference, one should be able to notice dead people from living ones. Was this report written in Serbia or Russia that he didn't know?

Serbia is in panic, Dick Marty is going to be surprised as well.

"I am alive and don't have to announce it! They went to the TV when the report called them dead. What do you want from them, let the stupid CoE rapporteur investigate his sources, not investigate people because they are live."
=========================

Yes you should report it if you were declared dead by your relatives who you are still living with because filing a false report is a crime.
Would you want your relatives to go to jail for this crime if they made a mistake and you did not tell them that you are not a ghost?

So by allowing your relatives to lie to the police you are also an accomplice to that crime.
Now do you see why they should've come forward and straightened the whole thing up if in fact they are who they say they are?

Another link from UMNIK:
http://www.unmikonline.org/press/mon/lmm280800.html

TWO PEOPLE SHOT IN PEJA/PEC

Bota Sot as its main news today had a report on an attempted murder on Ramiz and Sadik Muriqi, which happened Sunday evening at about 1800 hours in Peja/Pec. The paper said that the incident happened near the railway station, when an unidentified person ambushed the vehicle of the victims, firing 29 bullets, of which 13 hit the vehicle. The attacker he escaped leaving the weapon behind.

The lives of both men are reportedly not in danger, although the situation of Sadik was said to be a bit more difficult.

The paper cited an international police officer referred to as officer Hill, saying that the attack was not politically motivated.

Besides the report, the paper features a photo of Ramiz Muriqi (one sixth of the page), wearing a KLA uniform.

Original link for the document writen by Jean Charles Gardetto:

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/WorkingDocs/Doc10/EDOC12440.pdf

Sadik and Vesel Muriqi are mentioned in the report not Ramiz Muriqi. Ramiz Muriqi is right to say that he is alive. I am not sure who was the second one?

Hahaha, the Hague Tribunal is now back in Kosova to check this story, wipe egg from their faces. Jean was at 'Le Frog" when news arrived that he lied. This is going to be a fun discussion when they discuss it in late Jann. If you find out who is alive and who is dead, how reliable are you as a rapporteur? let's be honest people.


P.S. They were setup, to show how 'reliable' reports were done and to discredit them once in for all

Muriqi,

You wrote: "[Vesel Muriqi] gave false testimony against Haradinaj."

Muriqi, I've been studing this case rather long time, and therefore I will claim that what you write isn't true.

Going back to the article, I believe what we have here is a mix up on names. Brothers Vesel Muriqi and Sadik Musiqi are different persons than Vesel Muriqi (who was kidnapped by the Haradinaj clan but managed to escape) and Sadik Musaj (who was killed, very likely by the Haradinaj clan).

The clan feuds between the Haradinaj and the Musiqi families, as well as between the Haradinaj and the Musaj families, are also a war between KLA and FARK.

The more I understand the thinking and ways of Albanians, the more I consider that Serbia should feel lucky that Kosovo Albanians formed their own state.

BTW, a Hague spokeswoman (at the time of Haradinaj's acquittal) denied there had been 9 witnesses killed: http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=04&dd=10&nav_id=49272

The prosecution claimed only two witnesses refused to testify; they said nothing about killings. One of the two reluctant witnesses had been committed to a mental hospital, one had been transferred from a prison to the Hague, from where he escaped to North America.

Hmm, everyone from UN investigators to Nato Generals called Racak a Hoax
(John, 9 January 2011 02:26)

I don't think so. Del Ponte included Racak in the indictment against Milosevic. If you are saying that an official indictement in a court of law was a hoax, than what should we call a book from the same person ?!

here is the original report from the COE, indeed it is mentioned in article 130

130. Moreover, when a witness does come forward, there is a real threat of retaliation. This may not necessarily put them in direct danger, losing their job for example, but there are also examples of key witnesses being murdered. The trial of Ramush Haradinaj, the former leader of the Kosovo Liberation Army, well illustrates this. Mr Haradinaj was indicted by the ICTY for crimes committed during the war in Kosovo but was subsequently acquitted. In its judgment, the Tribunal highlighted the difficulties that it had had in obtaining evidence from the 100 prosecution witnesses. Thirty-four of them were granted protection measures and 18 had to be issued with summonses. A number of witnesses who were going to give evidence at the trial were murdered. These included Sadik and Vesel Muriqi, both of whom had been placed under a protection programme by the ICTY.

http://assembly.coe.int/Main.asp?link=/Documents/WorkingDocs/Doc10/EDOC12440.htm

If you look further in google you will find that Ramiz went to the funeral of his friend Sadik Musaj in feb 2005, (after 3 murder attents) so indeed might be a few with same or closed names but this is not upto us to "decide", certainly it is not by coincidence that these two witnesses were mentionned in the COE report.

here another link in german

http://books.google.com/books?id=AmBrt9bb1XAC&pg=PA335&lpg=PA335&dq=sadik++vesel+muriqi&source=bl&ots=xkcSenZH_h&sig=dBlceyuiFcz_9_qxYBaZ4KFNxRc&hl=en&ei=qeQoTbfFMM_Fswao2-jFAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=sadik%20%20vesel%20muriqi&f=false

Come on guys make common story. One of you said that Veseli Muriqi is in Serbia, one that he is in Montenegro and he appears in Kosovo. Also, why Hague tribinual would not called somebody as a witness if that person was already witness in similar case against Daut Haradinaj in Kosovo? He was also member of FARK?

I am not for sure what is the case here: could be that Jean-Charles GARDETTO got it wrong or these guys are not the same ones as originaly published in his report.

I dont know anything about these guys just got interested last night after Olli has published his comments. All that information is available in english and albanian on internet, you need to google and translate.

Good one Albanians! This is the first step in fightin a PR war. Now this piece of news must be carried by Reuters, AFP, AP and flown to the far-flung corners of the Earth.

Anyone have a link to original report by Jean Charles Gardetto?
(Kosmet Freedom Army Fighter, 8 January 2011 22:18)

- There's a pdf at http://assembly.coe.int/ASP/NewsManager/EMB_NewsManagerView.asp?ID=5697 . Sadik and Vesel Muriq are mentioned in paragraph 130.

Haradinaj is being retried for 'killing' these two people, by the way. He'll be out in less than a week and I hope he can sue the prosecutors for something.
(Hmmmmm, 10 January 2011 00:18)

How do you know that Haradinaj is retried for killing these two people? Your assumption, or you know why he is being retried?

This can be easily checked as Veseli Muriqi (Veselin Todorovic) has Serbian/Montenegrin mother. If Sadik Muriqi is his brother he should also have Serbian/Montenegrin mother. Or he is his half brother, same father different mothers?

Ramiz Muriqi is cousin of Sadik and Veseli.

Ramiz and Sadik Muriqi both survived assassination attempts, Veseli was kidnapped but managed to escape.

(Amer, 10 January 2011 03:13)

Oh wow Amer, thank you, I did not know that. After writing 300 articles on their capture, the start of the trial, and gruesome descriptions of cut heads and limbs and eyes, B92 does not see it fit to tell us that 5 of them were released, because, well, it was not true, the prosecution had no facts? Really do not like this type of journalism, where you start a story and do not follow it through.

According from what I found, Vesel Muriq or Veselin Todorovic is from mixed marriege of Albanian father (Muriqi) and serb mother (Todorovic). This can be easily checked if these two persons who appered on Kohavision have the same serbian mother. Also, Ramiz is cousin of these two.

Before this goes out of hands:

In my previous comment I wrote name Sadik Musiqi (wrong) instead of Sadik Muriqi (correct). So, I brought a totally new person into this case. (Well, as much as I know a family name "Musiqi" doesn't exist in Albanian.)

I'm very sorry. Mistakes happen so easy. I believe we have similar issue concerning the case. What seems to be sure is that

1) Resent Vesel Muriqi and Sadik Muriqi are brothers
2) Sadik Muriqi isn't the killed witness Sadik Musaj
3 Witness Vesel Muriqi and killed Sadik Musaj weren't brothers

Most likely family names Muriqi and Musaj were mixed in the report.

Another link from UMNIK:
http://www.unmikonline.org/press/mon/lmm280800.html

TWO PEOPLE SHOT IN PEJA/PEC

Bota Sot as its main news today had a report on an attempted murder on Ramiz and Sadik Muriqi, which happened Sunday evening at about 1800 hours in Peja/Pec. The paper said that the incident happened near the railway station, when an unidentified person ambushed the vehicle of the victims, firing 29 bullets, of which 13 hit the vehicle. The attacker he escaped leaving the weapon behind.

The lives of both men are reportedly not in danger, although the situation of Sadik was said to be a bit more difficult.

The paper cited an international police officer referred to as officer Hill, saying that the attack was not politically motivated.

Besides the report, the paper features a photo of Ramiz Muriqi (one sixth of the page), wearing a KLA uniform.