"Passports for 80,000 ethnic Hungarians"

Many of the Magyars of Vojvodina will avail of the passports but will stay put in Serbia as Hungary is no better. Why bother uroot one's settled livelihood and take a chance in Hungary where the economy is in a tailspin.

On the face of it, this is simply a ploy by Budapest to gain some indirect political influence beyond its borders, using the presense of its sizable diaspora in places like Romania (Translyvania), Slovakia and Serbia (Vojvodina).

- Some will be very happy to learn, 2011 all restrictions for Hungarian citizens regarding working in Austria and Germany are lifted. Get the Hungarian passport today, move to Austria tomorrow. This is very cool (for business owners in Austria, Germany).

- The problem of doctors and nurses UK needs that much is now solved. Polish doctors/nurses won't very happy because Ukrainian, Serbian and Croatian Hungarians will come as competition. But hospitals in UK and the patients will be happy. What a bonus!

Greetings to Orbán from the widow of commissioning officer who - according Gogol - spanked herself.

Now exodus can begin. And Serbs or Ukrainians complain? You guys will get empty space all over Transkarpathia and Vojvodina.

Ataman, your comment (the last one) strikes me the most.
As far as I understood (from a person entitled to get such a citizenship) such persons will get Hungarian passports, but they will not be entitled to vote.
And here was my big issue. Romania also, not based on ethnic but rather legal reasons, grants (after a too lengthy process) citizenship to former citizens or their descendants (up to the second degree) of former Romanian territories who lost their citizenship without their consent (Republic of Moldova issue). But this type of citizens are of course allowed to vote in general elections and if they reside in Romania proper (even as students)at their place of residence in Ro (Constitution says sovereignity is excersised by the Romanian populus).
Is it true that this new type of Hungarian citizens (from Romania/Transilvania let's say) will not be able to vote in general elections in Hungary? If yes,wouldn't that make them kind of a second class citizens?

Anyhow combine this citizenship with the fact that for years and years now Hungarian parties (of course acting according to instructions/advice from Budapest) kept on insisting on segregation in education, local administration etc. and the result is easy to figure out.

Therefore, on other issues, I agree with you. Take a regular Laszlo/Istvan or Ildiko let's say, who barely speaks some Romanian but wants to pursue a career in Humanities/Business/political science, their only chance would be in Budapest or elsewhere, cause in Bucharest/Cluj-Napoca/Timisoara (free competition) they would not stand a chance. IT or engineering would be easier. In my personal opinion, both Romania and the Hungarian community here would loose.

On the other hand, why would someone want to live in the pusta in Hungary when one can live in beautiful and amazing Transilvania [my own nationalistic opinion :)]

Didn't Russia do the same with South Ossetia & Abkazia? Give them citizenship and then annex those territories.

On the face of it, this is simply a ploy by Budapest to gain some indirect political influence beyond its borders, using the presense of its sizable diaspora in places like Romania (Translyvania), Slovakia and Serbia (Vojvodina).
(Niall O'Doherty, 3 January 2011 16:40)

This is exactly what your beloved Serbia is doing in Bosnia, Montenegro, Croatia, etc; they're trying to get indirect political influence beyond their boarders. Russia is the same.

Oho, this might help reduce the numbers of hungarians in Vojvodina. Their numbers have been fallng considerably in the last 50 years.

Didn't Russia do the same with South Ossetia & Abkazia? Give them citizenship and then annex those territories.
(ivan, 3 January 2011 15:22)
How is Hungary going to do this when ethnic Hungarians are a minority in Vojvodina?

This is exactly what your beloved Serbia is doing in Bosnia, Montenegro, Croatia, etc; they're trying to get indirect political influence beyond their boarders. Russia is the same.
(O'Connell, 3 January 2011 18:22)
That’s correct. But the area where Serbia is seeking influence has large number of Serbs. How many Hungarians are living in Serbia again? 80 000? What influence can Hungary have? Little to nothing.

On the face of it, this is simply a ploy by Budapest to gain some indirect political influence beyond its borders, using the presense of its sizable diaspora in places like Romania (Translyvania), Slovakia and Serbia (Vojvodina).
(Niall O'Doherty, 3 January 2011 16:40)

Orbán does not care about Greater Hungary - only about Greater Orbán.
The original goal was to make these people grateful and vote for FIDESZ. Hungarian voters in these countries are traditionally FIDESZ voters.

Now... he in my opinion miscalculated - see my "je¿"/ hedgehog comments. It will backfire (as usual for Orbán) the way he did not plan. Typical for this government: first fire, than aim.

If the Hungarians in Serbia have any benefits to getting a Hungarian Passport all the power to them. Hungarians are hard working people and not cry babies. they deserve a better income which in Serbia is only a fairy tale.Serbia is the only country in europe that the Hungarians have so much freedom. This is not political this is Hungary's job to do. P.S I am Serbian not hungarian.

Hungarians are hard working people and not cry babies. they deserve a better income which in Serbia is only a fairy tale.Serbia is the only country in europe that the Hungarians have so much freedom. This is not political this is Hungary's job to do. P.S I am Serbian not hungarian.
(Lalo, 3 January 2011 16:37)

Yes, that was pretty much the original idea - and no politician in Ukraine or Serbia objected. But let's face it: the result will be completely different than what was planed at the office desk.

I hope, the visa-free regime between Canada and Hungary will stay, Canadians already did threaten to suspend it. Now this one...

I am unfortunate enough to be born as a Hungarian in Serbia but didn't and will not apply for the Hungarian passport, because I am not going to move to an other country just because I can make more money there and leave family behind.

Serbia is home, and will always have that homey feeling. I won't give it up just because...

Oho, this might help reduce the numbers of hungarians in Vojvodina. Their numbers have been fallng considerably in the last 50 years.
(Lazar, 3 January 2011 15:49)

Yeah, yeah - and of course all the retired will "convert" their retirement to Hungary. For ones who live in Serbia maybe not as big benefit - but for Ukrainians the difference is huge because the social security payments there are based on very low Soviet salaries in Soviet Rbl, long gone. The Hungarian equivalent is much higher, based on bilateral agreement.

The scenario:

- Older residents of Palic, Subotica, Uzhgorod will "move" (pro-forma) to Hungary, receive the benefits and move back with more money
- Younger residents say "goo-bye" to the entire area and won't stop till Vienna or London.

It's ethnic disaster for involved countries and due benefit payment to Hungary. Ukraine, Serbia, Croatia will receive some "bonus" in form of not being obligated to pay the benefit anymore. The damage to ethnic picture will be permanent. These people will be lost 100% because their children will be West Europeans... or Canadians.

More side-effect: Ukraine and Serbia has a pretty big Hungarian-speaking minority who aren't Hungarians strictly speaking.

I feel, the electric cables of Swedish Railway are in danger. Not in Canada because Canadian Rail (VIA) is not electrified.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYqQeDKcqrI

adrian/bucharest

Be careful with those "regular Laszlos and Ildikos", they are at home already in Erdely, and your people are temporary guests in Transylvania. Take good care of it.

Oh, my nationalist self :)

This is how the UK press is reporting it - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3323274/Thousands-to-be-given-EU-passports-on-January-1.html - as the release of another wave of cheap gastarbejteri onto the British labour market. Given Hungary's present economic problems, that looks by far the most likely outcome, rather than any great retyurn to the motherland.

Much as the the anti-Serb troublemakers might wish it otherwise, it doesn't presage the loss of Vojvodina either - quite the opposite, as the number of ethnic Hungarians there will continue to fall, but at a higher speed. That would be a pity, because this is a well integrated population that should serve as a positive behavioural example to other more fractious groups further south.

Is it true that this new type of Hungarian citizens (from Romania/Transilvania let's say) will not be able to vote in general elections in Hungary? If yes,wouldn't that make them kind of a second class citizens?
(adrian/bucharest, 3 January 2011 19:30)

Not at all. I, too, got the citizenship while living abroad. I could vote - but it was a major hassle and not worth the expense of going to the consulate.
Legally there is no "second grade" Hungarian citizenship, so in theory you can vote... at the consulate in Bucharest.

----

IT or engineering would be easier. In my personal opinion, both Romania and the Hungarian community here would loose.
(adrian/bucharest, 3 January 2011 19:30)

I think, in recent years Romanian math and IT education is in somewhat better shape than Hungarian. And besides - since both are in EU there are quite a lot of possibilities abroad.

But here again: Romania and Slovakia are in EU and there is no administrative hurdle for Hungarians in these countries to move to Hungary. Hence, the effect there is minimal, except the ones who would have higher retirement benefits.

Romania entered EU two and half years later than Hungary - thus the time when Romanians can compete freely with Austrians and Germans in Austrian and German job market is 2014, not 2011. That makes a big difference for some - and it will help to make the decision. Same about illegal immigration to Canada or the States. These people don't even think about any place east of Vienna.

On the other hand the effect on Ukrainian, Serbian and remaining few Croatian Hungarians will be very big.

Neither Serbia nor Croatia has any agreement with EU countries regarding staying more than 90 days and/or taking a job. The ease Hungarians access the Austrian or German job market won't happen with Croatia before 2020, with Serbia before 2027 and with Ukraine probably before 2037 at earliest - time to think about retirement for the people who are thirty-something today. Now a significant part of their population gets a fully-blown EU citizenship and visa-free access to USA, Canada, New Zealand practically overnight.

Good for the individuals, very bad for the community.

----

On the other hand, why would someone want to live in the pusta in Hungary when one can live in beautiful and amazing Transilvania [my own nationalistic opinion :)]
(adrian/bucharest, 3 January 2011 19:30)

The ones who speak Romanian will discover, the area south of Quebec City is very scenic, the language is not tough to learn, housing is cheap (for refugee applicants: free!) and much of their benefit can be sent home.

So there will be just an other wave of immigrants... the n-th.

Ataman wrote:
"Orbán does not care about Greater Hungary - only about Greater Orbán. "

Whye do you make me spill my coffee?!
You always make my day ATAMAN!!!

Perhaps VIA needs to learn from Bombardier...
BTW, nothing from the Great White North. Just bleed your knuckles and make somebody else rich.

After Canada fixes Orban, Orban will have neither Greater Hungary nor Greater Orban..

Hruz, rather your chauvinistic one I'd say.

because I am not going to move to an other country just because I can make more money there and leave family behind.
(Laci, 4 January 2011 10:18)

Laci - you SHOULD apply. Than put the Hungarian passport in the drawer and live in Serbia. Very simple:

1) Having multiple citizenships is protection of our family. In 90-s Serbia had a much worse government than Hungary had at that time. Now the situation is just opposite: we got our own "Milosevic".

2) Having Hungarian passport frees you from obligation to take care about visas in Malaysia, New Zealand, Canada, USA, Brazil, Chile, Japan, Georgia, Taiwan (just few examples). In particular, getting Taiwanese visa is very difficult for Serbs. How about working at a high-tech company in Belgrade and be their negotiator or activity supervisor in Taiwan?

----

Serbia is home, and will always have that homey feeling. I won't give it up just because...
(Laci, 4 January 2011 10:18)

Yes, but what if you have some mega-Bucks job opportunity or just want to travel and want to see Taroko Gorge or Igucu Falls?


Finally: trusting in any government is foolish. Take every passport you can as long as the opportunity is there. They all will close one day and anytime ordinary citizen can get under unreasonable pressure in any country. Remember the Serbian or the Swiss couple in the States where American Dream became a nightmare because of over-zealous sheriff. Such idiocity can happen in any country. DO NOT TRUST GOVERNMENTS.

"Learn Hungarian For Free
Download your free Hungarian Byki™ software and learn Hungarian fast!
[link]"
(Amer, 4 January 2011 21:00)

The easiest way to learn the language is in the bed... from wife. This is how I not just made my Hungarian perfect - but also managed not to forget it while in the States.

This is probably the most expensive way, too because as string kids will appear and mooch you out of last cent earlier or later. But it's effective (both learning and mooching).

Here you go, guys!

"Learn Hungarian For Free
Download your free Hungarian Byki™ software and learn Hungarian fast!
www.Byki.com"

Dear Laci

If it is true what you write, that you are of Hungarian origin, and you say that you were " unfortunate enough" to have been born as a Hungarian in Serbia, I have news for you.

Rest assured, you are not Hungarian. Even if you were, I would encourage you not to tell anyone in the future. If you are not proud of your Hungarian origin, please not present yourself as one. I feel embarrased and ashamed for you.

Think about it very deeply.

Didn't Russia do the same with South Ossetia & Abkazia? Give them citizenship and then annex those territories.

On the face of it, this is simply a ploy by Budapest to gain some indirect political influence beyond its borders, using the presense of its sizable diaspora in places like Romania (Translyvania), Slovakia and Serbia (Vojvodina).
(Niall O'Doherty, 3 January 2011 16:40)

This is exactly what your beloved Serbia is doing in Bosnia, Montenegro, Croatia, etc; they're trying to get indirect political influence beyond their boarders. Russia is the same.

Oho, this might help reduce the numbers of hungarians in Vojvodina. Their numbers have been fallng considerably in the last 50 years.

adrian/bucharest

Be careful with those "regular Laszlos and Ildikos", they are at home already in Erdely, and your people are temporary guests in Transylvania. Take good care of it.

Oh, my nationalist self :)

On the face of it, this is simply a ploy by Budapest to gain some indirect political influence beyond its borders, using the presense of its sizable diaspora in places like Romania (Translyvania), Slovakia and Serbia (Vojvodina).
(Niall O'Doherty, 3 January 2011 16:40)

Orbán does not care about Greater Hungary - only about Greater Orbán.
The original goal was to make these people grateful and vote for FIDESZ. Hungarian voters in these countries are traditionally FIDESZ voters.

Now... he in my opinion miscalculated - see my "je¿"/ hedgehog comments. It will backfire (as usual for Orbán) the way he did not plan. Typical for this government: first fire, than aim.

Many of the Magyars of Vojvodina will avail of the passports but will stay put in Serbia as Hungary is no better. Why bother uroot one's settled livelihood and take a chance in Hungary where the economy is in a tailspin.

On the face of it, this is simply a ploy by Budapest to gain some indirect political influence beyond its borders, using the presense of its sizable diaspora in places like Romania (Translyvania), Slovakia and Serbia (Vojvodina).

- Some will be very happy to learn, 2011 all restrictions for Hungarian citizens regarding working in Austria and Germany are lifted. Get the Hungarian passport today, move to Austria tomorrow. This is very cool (for business owners in Austria, Germany).

- The problem of doctors and nurses UK needs that much is now solved. Polish doctors/nurses won't very happy because Ukrainian, Serbian and Croatian Hungarians will come as competition. But hospitals in UK and the patients will be happy. What a bonus!

Greetings to Orbán from the widow of commissioning officer who - according Gogol - spanked herself.

Now exodus can begin. And Serbs or Ukrainians complain? You guys will get empty space all over Transkarpathia and Vojvodina.

Oho, this might help reduce the numbers of hungarians in Vojvodina. Their numbers have been fallng considerably in the last 50 years.
(Lazar, 3 January 2011 15:49)

Yeah, yeah - and of course all the retired will "convert" their retirement to Hungary. For ones who live in Serbia maybe not as big benefit - but for Ukrainians the difference is huge because the social security payments there are based on very low Soviet salaries in Soviet Rbl, long gone. The Hungarian equivalent is much higher, based on bilateral agreement.

The scenario:

- Older residents of Palic, Subotica, Uzhgorod will "move" (pro-forma) to Hungary, receive the benefits and move back with more money
- Younger residents say "goo-bye" to the entire area and won't stop till Vienna or London.

It's ethnic disaster for involved countries and due benefit payment to Hungary. Ukraine, Serbia, Croatia will receive some "bonus" in form of not being obligated to pay the benefit anymore. The damage to ethnic picture will be permanent. These people will be lost 100% because their children will be West Europeans... or Canadians.

More side-effect: Ukraine and Serbia has a pretty big Hungarian-speaking minority who aren't Hungarians strictly speaking.

I feel, the electric cables of Swedish Railway are in danger. Not in Canada because Canadian Rail (VIA) is not electrified.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYqQeDKcqrI

Hungarians are hard working people and not cry babies. they deserve a better income which in Serbia is only a fairy tale.Serbia is the only country in europe that the Hungarians have so much freedom. This is not political this is Hungary's job to do. P.S I am Serbian not hungarian.
(Lalo, 3 January 2011 16:37)

Yes, that was pretty much the original idea - and no politician in Ukraine or Serbia objected. But let's face it: the result will be completely different than what was planed at the office desk.

I hope, the visa-free regime between Canada and Hungary will stay, Canadians already did threaten to suspend it. Now this one...

Didn't Russia do the same with South Ossetia & Abkazia? Give them citizenship and then annex those territories.
(ivan, 3 January 2011 15:22)
How is Hungary going to do this when ethnic Hungarians are a minority in Vojvodina?

This is exactly what your beloved Serbia is doing in Bosnia, Montenegro, Croatia, etc; they're trying to get indirect political influence beyond their boarders. Russia is the same.
(O'Connell, 3 January 2011 18:22)
That’s correct. But the area where Serbia is seeking influence has large number of Serbs. How many Hungarians are living in Serbia again? 80 000? What influence can Hungary have? Little to nothing.

Ataman wrote:
"Orbán does not care about Greater Hungary - only about Greater Orbán. "

Whye do you make me spill my coffee?!
You always make my day ATAMAN!!!

Perhaps VIA needs to learn from Bombardier...
BTW, nothing from the Great White North. Just bleed your knuckles and make somebody else rich.

After Canada fixes Orban, Orban will have neither Greater Hungary nor Greater Orban..

Hruz, rather your chauvinistic one I'd say.

If the Hungarians in Serbia have any benefits to getting a Hungarian Passport all the power to them. Hungarians are hard working people and not cry babies. they deserve a better income which in Serbia is only a fairy tale.Serbia is the only country in europe that the Hungarians have so much freedom. This is not political this is Hungary's job to do. P.S I am Serbian not hungarian.

Ataman, your comment (the last one) strikes me the most.
As far as I understood (from a person entitled to get such a citizenship) such persons will get Hungarian passports, but they will not be entitled to vote.
And here was my big issue. Romania also, not based on ethnic but rather legal reasons, grants (after a too lengthy process) citizenship to former citizens or their descendants (up to the second degree) of former Romanian territories who lost their citizenship without their consent (Republic of Moldova issue). But this type of citizens are of course allowed to vote in general elections and if they reside in Romania proper (even as students)at their place of residence in Ro (Constitution says sovereignity is excersised by the Romanian populus).
Is it true that this new type of Hungarian citizens (from Romania/Transilvania let's say) will not be able to vote in general elections in Hungary? If yes,wouldn't that make them kind of a second class citizens?

Anyhow combine this citizenship with the fact that for years and years now Hungarian parties (of course acting according to instructions/advice from Budapest) kept on insisting on segregation in education, local administration etc. and the result is easy to figure out.

Therefore, on other issues, I agree with you. Take a regular Laszlo/Istvan or Ildiko let's say, who barely speaks some Romanian but wants to pursue a career in Humanities/Business/political science, their only chance would be in Budapest or elsewhere, cause in Bucharest/Cluj-Napoca/Timisoara (free competition) they would not stand a chance. IT or engineering would be easier. In my personal opinion, both Romania and the Hungarian community here would loose.

On the other hand, why would someone want to live in the pusta in Hungary when one can live in beautiful and amazing Transilvania [my own nationalistic opinion :)]

"Learn Hungarian For Free
Download your free Hungarian Byki™ software and learn Hungarian fast!
[link]"
(Amer, 4 January 2011 21:00)

The easiest way to learn the language is in the bed... from wife. This is how I not just made my Hungarian perfect - but also managed not to forget it while in the States.

This is probably the most expensive way, too because as string kids will appear and mooch you out of last cent earlier or later. But it's effective (both learning and mooching).

I am unfortunate enough to be born as a Hungarian in Serbia but didn't and will not apply for the Hungarian passport, because I am not going to move to an other country just because I can make more money there and leave family behind.

Serbia is home, and will always have that homey feeling. I won't give it up just because...

This is how the UK press is reporting it - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3323274/Thousands-to-be-given-EU-passports-on-January-1.html - as the release of another wave of cheap gastarbejteri onto the British labour market. Given Hungary's present economic problems, that looks by far the most likely outcome, rather than any great retyurn to the motherland.

Much as the the anti-Serb troublemakers might wish it otherwise, it doesn't presage the loss of Vojvodina either - quite the opposite, as the number of ethnic Hungarians there will continue to fall, but at a higher speed. That would be a pity, because this is a well integrated population that should serve as a positive behavioural example to other more fractious groups further south.

Here you go, guys!

"Learn Hungarian For Free
Download your free Hungarian Byki™ software and learn Hungarian fast!
www.Byki.com"

Dear Laci

If it is true what you write, that you are of Hungarian origin, and you say that you were " unfortunate enough" to have been born as a Hungarian in Serbia, I have news for you.

Rest assured, you are not Hungarian. Even if you were, I would encourage you not to tell anyone in the future. If you are not proud of your Hungarian origin, please not present yourself as one. I feel embarrased and ashamed for you.

Think about it very deeply.

Is it true that this new type of Hungarian citizens (from Romania/Transilvania let's say) will not be able to vote in general elections in Hungary? If yes,wouldn't that make them kind of a second class citizens?
(adrian/bucharest, 3 January 2011 19:30)

Not at all. I, too, got the citizenship while living abroad. I could vote - but it was a major hassle and not worth the expense of going to the consulate.
Legally there is no "second grade" Hungarian citizenship, so in theory you can vote... at the consulate in Bucharest.

----

IT or engineering would be easier. In my personal opinion, both Romania and the Hungarian community here would loose.
(adrian/bucharest, 3 January 2011 19:30)

I think, in recent years Romanian math and IT education is in somewhat better shape than Hungarian. And besides - since both are in EU there are quite a lot of possibilities abroad.

But here again: Romania and Slovakia are in EU and there is no administrative hurdle for Hungarians in these countries to move to Hungary. Hence, the effect there is minimal, except the ones who would have higher retirement benefits.

Romania entered EU two and half years later than Hungary - thus the time when Romanians can compete freely with Austrians and Germans in Austrian and German job market is 2014, not 2011. That makes a big difference for some - and it will help to make the decision. Same about illegal immigration to Canada or the States. These people don't even think about any place east of Vienna.

On the other hand the effect on Ukrainian, Serbian and remaining few Croatian Hungarians will be very big.

Neither Serbia nor Croatia has any agreement with EU countries regarding staying more than 90 days and/or taking a job. The ease Hungarians access the Austrian or German job market won't happen with Croatia before 2020, with Serbia before 2027 and with Ukraine probably before 2037 at earliest - time to think about retirement for the people who are thirty-something today. Now a significant part of their population gets a fully-blown EU citizenship and visa-free access to USA, Canada, New Zealand practically overnight.

Good for the individuals, very bad for the community.

----

On the other hand, why would someone want to live in the pusta in Hungary when one can live in beautiful and amazing Transilvania [my own nationalistic opinion :)]
(adrian/bucharest, 3 January 2011 19:30)

The ones who speak Romanian will discover, the area south of Quebec City is very scenic, the language is not tough to learn, housing is cheap (for refugee applicants: free!) and much of their benefit can be sent home.

So there will be just an other wave of immigrants... the n-th.

because I am not going to move to an other country just because I can make more money there and leave family behind.
(Laci, 4 January 2011 10:18)

Laci - you SHOULD apply. Than put the Hungarian passport in the drawer and live in Serbia. Very simple:

1) Having multiple citizenships is protection of our family. In 90-s Serbia had a much worse government than Hungary had at that time. Now the situation is just opposite: we got our own "Milosevic".

2) Having Hungarian passport frees you from obligation to take care about visas in Malaysia, New Zealand, Canada, USA, Brazil, Chile, Japan, Georgia, Taiwan (just few examples). In particular, getting Taiwanese visa is very difficult for Serbs. How about working at a high-tech company in Belgrade and be their negotiator or activity supervisor in Taiwan?

----

Serbia is home, and will always have that homey feeling. I won't give it up just because...
(Laci, 4 January 2011 10:18)

Yes, but what if you have some mega-Bucks job opportunity or just want to travel and want to see Taroko Gorge or Igucu Falls?


Finally: trusting in any government is foolish. Take every passport you can as long as the opportunity is there. They all will close one day and anytime ordinary citizen can get under unreasonable pressure in any country. Remember the Serbian or the Swiss couple in the States where American Dream became a nightmare because of over-zealous sheriff. Such idiocity can happen in any country. DO NOT TRUST GOVERNMENTS.