Poll: Serbians unsure who runs their country

And probably 80% are sure that it was THE WEST who was responsible for the EX-YU wars, while 90% believe the Americans have never been on the moon ;-)

“A new poll shows that as many as 81 percent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -"during the time of socialism" … In terms of the standard of living, the time of Tito's rule from the Second World War to the 1980s was assessed as best, whereas the Milošević decade of the 1990s, and the subsequent decade since the fall of his regime are seen as "more or less the same".

I’m always happy to read that 81 percent of Serbian people either (a) have common sense, or (b) are honest in their answering, or both.

As for the other 19%, well it’s hard to know what to say. Possibly this includes a large proportion of those who have done well out of the looting of the state and country and entire region, out of the pyramid schemes, of the massive war plunder, deliberately engineered hyperinflation, looting and illegal privatization of state companies, followed by the legalization of this theft, etc etc, that occurred mostly in the 1990s and then was continued or “legitimized” in the last decade.

It also shows that while certain people and political forces of various stripes still like to refer to the Milosevic disaster regime as a, perhaps warped, continuation of socialism, that 81% of Serbs, at least, know the difference; the basic similarity is between all the regimes post-1987 till now, in contrast to before (not in the sense that that was any golden age; what is anywhere?). That is, the 1990s were the era of primitive accumulation of capital which required massive criminality (as it does and did everywhere) and thus only partial legitimization; the remaining legitimization of the theft by Milosevic’s cronies was carried out by the regimes that replaced the, now expendable, Milosevic and put on a new face.

yes how true the serbs know what is coming food banks, gangs,rampant poverty .and yes the rich run the country just like all over the western world point in case obama ,harper sarkozy,berlescony mirkel,etc i really hope that serb entry in to the eu takes for ever it would be nice if it would never happen god willing

"It also shows that while certain people and political forces of various stripes still like to refer to the Milosevic disaster regime as a, perhaps warped, continuation of socialism, that 81% of Serbs, at least, know the difference; the basic similarity is between all the regimes post-1987 till now, in contrast to before (not in the sense that that was any golden age; what is anywhere?)."
(DimTuc, 23 December 2010 17:30)

My interpretation is: The decay started with Milosevic and his politics which cumulated in the EX-YU wars, and, until today, Serbia is still struggling to recover from this era. Compared to other eastern european countries, EX-YU (maybe except of Slovenia) lost almost two decades - though YU surely could have had a much better starting position than other countries after the iron curtain fell.

"81 percent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -"during the time of socialism".

-- Of course they like it better. Serbia sucked the resources of all other parts of Jugoslavia. Look at Croatia, look at Slovenia, look at Kosova. Some doing way better than Serbia now then under Tito, and some doing way better now than under Serbia. There's no surprise Serbia has been on the decline. All the resources where cut out off her. No free lunch for Serbia anymore. Even Montenegro has been doing better since it split from Serbia.

And probably 80% are sure that it was THE WEST who was responsible for the EX-YU wars, while 90% believe the Americans have never been on the moon ;-)
(Top, 23 December 2010 15:57)

Top, I am more pro West than probably all of the pro West posters here on B92.
My pro West ideals have nothing to do financial prosperity, but everything to do with the values and ideals that stemmed from the Age of Enlightenment.
For you to suggest in a sarcastic manner that the West had nothing to do with the break-up of former Yugoslavia--when the West admits it on their own--and some VIPs in the West even brag about that very well known fact, has put you in the same category with Roberto and PRN. Which means I will just bypass your postings as I have been doing theirs.

The primary political movements that emerged from the so-called "Age of Enlightenment" were nationalism and the self-determination of peoples. Prior to the so-called "Age of Enlightenment" such entities as "The Holy Roman Empire" or the Hapsburg Empire were political norms. What is it exactly the you find about surrendering your sovereignty to the EU that is "enlightened"?

According to the poll coordinator Srećko Mihailović, "what seems to be the worst" in the answers is that 23 percent of respondents think that Serbia is governed by criminals,

Mr.Mihailovic you are a tool in the hands of the west that wants to destroy Serbia.Even if the people think that criminals govern Serbia you should not publish it.Traitor.

First and foremost, I'll let you know that I have very little tolerance for ignorance in the forms of attack, provocation,intimidation and sarcasm. However, as a preacher man, I have plenty of tolerance and patience for honest and harmless ignorance in all imaginable forms under the Heaven.
Your comment leads me to conclude that you have little understanding of history, and that you've heard some things that you thought sounded intelligent and are repeating them like bird. And if I didn't genuinely believe that there are people on B92 that would like to hear the answer from my side--I would blow your comment off like I do Roberto's PRNs and now Top's.

My comment has nothing to do with the EU, or your futile effort at trying to sound like you know something with respect to the period that came before the period I addressed, which was the main subject of my post. First, you haven't the faintest idea of my personal stand on Serbia joining the EU. Second,the word surrender does not exist in my mind or my vocabulary, unless we ate talking about the Maker. This time I will restrain myself from being rude, although you rightfully deserve for me to be, and to send you to three sites on Google.

Here is for those that have a curious mind,and understand that this has nothing to do with Serbia joining the the EU, but everything to do with the philosophies that stemmed from the thinkers of the Enlightenment Period.

-Democracy
-Freedom of press
-Freedom of religion.
-Freedom of speach.
-Fair Labor Standards Acts.
-Mandatory and universal education.
-Written Constitutions that ensure equal protection of the law to all the people, and on and on and on.

Do corruption and graft still take place?
OF COURSE-because people are HUMAN and make mistakes!
Did Enlightenment thinking solve all of our problems? NO, but they brought a standard of living and a quality of life
and BEING to more people than ever before. And most important, they ensure that there are still good people NOW to continue to promote those ideals and their actual manifestations in people's everyday lives.

"Of course they like it better. Serbia sucked the resources of all other parts of Jugoslavia. Look at Croatia, look at Slovenia, look at Kosova. Some doing way better than Serbia now then under Tito"
(johny, 23 December 2010 21:39)

Sure, there was a split within YU: Slovenia with technology and machine construction, Croatia and Montenegro primarily had tourism as the main source of money, Serbia's part has been agriculture, food industry and heavy industry (metal, cars, weapons). Though I'm not very sure what Kosovo's role has been, it always has been the poorest part. Maybe YU has was a bit like Italy: They have a prosperous and very industrialized north, a middle part, and a corrupt and mafia-infected south.

johnny...

Who sucked who's resources??
I don't know whether you're insulting the Slovenians, or pumping up the Macedonians?

Manure flows downhill in every sense of the word, and once you get this simple concept, you'll understand who's suckling at the spilt milk..

According to the poll coordinator Srećko Mihailović, "what seems to be the worst" in the answers is that 23 percent of respondents think that Serbia is governed by criminals,

Mr.Mihailovic you are a tool in the hands of the west that wants to destroy Serbia.Even if the people think that criminals govern Serbia you should not publish it.Traitor.
(Mark, 23 December 2010 18:24)

What you are suggesting is that we take the path that some recent democracies have taken. Doing what you are suggesting would be an obvious insult to Truth, and to a great majority of Serbia's population. Most of Serbia's citizens, I being one, are tired of her past Governors that kept us in the dark on our social and domestic issues. As far as foreign affairs go, which are international political chess and poker games, we have to learn to trust and believe in those that we've elected, and help them by guiding them with our criticism and approvals through our freedom of press and freedom of expression which are the core of a democracy. This present administration knows what it takes to make a strong democratic society. It's simple! Observe, study,and don't make the same mistakes that other democracies did.

We are a new democracy, and this young administration has given us freedom of speech in all mediums available.Wouldn't you agree, my dear fellow poster? With all these supreme freedoms we can all finally decide and speak for ourselves what and whom we like and dislike, and give our final presentations at the ballot boxes freely and without fear of repercussions. Like all new democracies, their goals are long-term,and those selfish ones that are looking for instant riches and gratification will always have a hair up their arse or a bone to pick about something or other. Most of the Serbs in the diaspora seem to forget that it's not all about Serbs, as Serbia is a multi ethnic and a colorful society where all citizens have equal rights,representation and a stake in her future. Our diversity is what makes us so lovely!!!

There is no such a place on our planet where all of the people and parties are satisfied--but in modern Democratic Serbia, at least they are free to bitch, moan, protest, be happy and go to the ballot boxes without being threatened and intimidated.

That's democracy and the right path chosen, which we should never veer from. Like I sad years ago, these "boys" are never going to let go our province. Give them at least some political credit for the present--as they've well earned it. And for Serbia's sake in these uncertain, turbulent times, give them moral support and your positive energy, and pray for them--as they are our boys in "battle" for a better and healthier Serbia.

Happy Holidays, and a very Happy New Year to all the posters and staff on B92.

"Which means I will just bypass your postings as I have been doing theirs."
(Pro Truth + Western Values!!!, 23 December 2010 19:54)

Feel free to bypass my posts. And of course it was sarcastic, because many people like to glorify the good old times, how things have been much, much better before, and everything is deteriorating nowadays. This happens in every country in transition. Even a high percentage of people in former east Germany think that way! Though they/the region have received support of more than a trillion German marks in the last 20 years. In fact, it's all relative. Nowadays, in the average, people are more wealthy, live longer, work less, and have more freedom. Of course there has been more security in the old times: An (almost) guaranteed job, though often not even self chosen. People have been less selfish, maybe, and more supportive amongst each other.

What is it exactly the you find about surrendering your sovereignty to the EU that is "enlightened"?
(Leo, 23 December 2010 22:56)

Maybe because they don't burn you if you state a scientific fact. Maybe because a scratch no longer means cutting your arm or even dying while your priest prays to God. Maybe because you can no longer be beheaded for being named a witch by your local church.
You can be the biggest Serb out there; but there are things out there that are known to just about anyone. If you don't buy the fact that it was the renaissance that brought us so much progress; then through your computer from your window and try to respond to my post.
Hint: To do that start praying hard, very hard. See if it works.

(johny, 23 December 2010 21:39) - and don't forget that anyone who couldn't find a job could go to Western Europe and make enough to send money home to keep the family going. Germany's going to be needing immigrants again soon, and once things pick up again, the rest of Europe. It can't come soon enough.

"81 percent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -"during the time of socialism".

-- Of course they like it better. Serbia sucked the resources of all other parts of Jugoslavia. Look at Croatia, look at Slovenia, look at Kosova. Some doing way better than Serbia now then under Tito, and some doing way better now than under Serbia. There's no surprise Serbia has been on the decline. All the resources where cut out off her. No free lunch for Serbia anymore. Even Montenegro has been doing better since it split from Serbia.

According to the poll coordinator Srećko Mihailović, "what seems to be the worst" in the answers is that 23 percent of respondents think that Serbia is governed by criminals,

Mr.Mihailovic you are a tool in the hands of the west that wants to destroy Serbia.Even if the people think that criminals govern Serbia you should not publish it.Traitor.

And probably 80% are sure that it was THE WEST who was responsible for the EX-YU wars, while 90% believe the Americans have never been on the moon ;-)
(Top, 23 December 2010 15:57)

Top, I am more pro West than probably all of the pro West posters here on B92.
My pro West ideals have nothing to do financial prosperity, but everything to do with the values and ideals that stemmed from the Age of Enlightenment.
For you to suggest in a sarcastic manner that the West had nothing to do with the break-up of former Yugoslavia--when the West admits it on their own--and some VIPs in the West even brag about that very well known fact, has put you in the same category with Roberto and PRN. Which means I will just bypass your postings as I have been doing theirs.

And probably 80% are sure that it was THE WEST who was responsible for the EX-YU wars, while 90% believe the Americans have never been on the moon ;-)

yes how true the serbs know what is coming food banks, gangs,rampant poverty .and yes the rich run the country just like all over the western world point in case obama ,harper sarkozy,berlescony mirkel,etc i really hope that serb entry in to the eu takes for ever it would be nice if it would never happen god willing

The primary political movements that emerged from the so-called "Age of Enlightenment" were nationalism and the self-determination of peoples. Prior to the so-called "Age of Enlightenment" such entities as "The Holy Roman Empire" or the Hapsburg Empire were political norms. What is it exactly the you find about surrendering your sovereignty to the EU that is "enlightened"?

"It also shows that while certain people and political forces of various stripes still like to refer to the Milosevic disaster regime as a, perhaps warped, continuation of socialism, that 81% of Serbs, at least, know the difference; the basic similarity is between all the regimes post-1987 till now, in contrast to before (not in the sense that that was any golden age; what is anywhere?)."
(DimTuc, 23 December 2010 17:30)

My interpretation is: The decay started with Milosevic and his politics which cumulated in the EX-YU wars, and, until today, Serbia is still struggling to recover from this era. Compared to other eastern european countries, EX-YU (maybe except of Slovenia) lost almost two decades - though YU surely could have had a much better starting position than other countries after the iron curtain fell.

First and foremost, I'll let you know that I have very little tolerance for ignorance in the forms of attack, provocation,intimidation and sarcasm. However, as a preacher man, I have plenty of tolerance and patience for honest and harmless ignorance in all imaginable forms under the Heaven.
Your comment leads me to conclude that you have little understanding of history, and that you've heard some things that you thought sounded intelligent and are repeating them like bird. And if I didn't genuinely believe that there are people on B92 that would like to hear the answer from my side--I would blow your comment off like I do Roberto's PRNs and now Top's.

My comment has nothing to do with the EU, or your futile effort at trying to sound like you know something with respect to the period that came before the period I addressed, which was the main subject of my post. First, you haven't the faintest idea of my personal stand on Serbia joining the EU. Second,the word surrender does not exist in my mind or my vocabulary, unless we ate talking about the Maker. This time I will restrain myself from being rude, although you rightfully deserve for me to be, and to send you to three sites on Google.

Here is for those that have a curious mind,and understand that this has nothing to do with Serbia joining the the EU, but everything to do with the philosophies that stemmed from the thinkers of the Enlightenment Period.

-Democracy
-Freedom of press
-Freedom of religion.
-Freedom of speach.
-Fair Labor Standards Acts.
-Mandatory and universal education.
-Written Constitutions that ensure equal protection of the law to all the people, and on and on and on.

Do corruption and graft still take place?
OF COURSE-because people are HUMAN and make mistakes!
Did Enlightenment thinking solve all of our problems? NO, but they brought a standard of living and a quality of life
and BEING to more people than ever before. And most important, they ensure that there are still good people NOW to continue to promote those ideals and their actual manifestations in people's everyday lives.

"Of course they like it better. Serbia sucked the resources of all other parts of Jugoslavia. Look at Croatia, look at Slovenia, look at Kosova. Some doing way better than Serbia now then under Tito"
(johny, 23 December 2010 21:39)

Sure, there was a split within YU: Slovenia with technology and machine construction, Croatia and Montenegro primarily had tourism as the main source of money, Serbia's part has been agriculture, food industry and heavy industry (metal, cars, weapons). Though I'm not very sure what Kosovo's role has been, it always has been the poorest part. Maybe YU has was a bit like Italy: They have a prosperous and very industrialized north, a middle part, and a corrupt and mafia-infected south.

“A new poll shows that as many as 81 percent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -"during the time of socialism" … In terms of the standard of living, the time of Tito's rule from the Second World War to the 1980s was assessed as best, whereas the Milošević decade of the 1990s, and the subsequent decade since the fall of his regime are seen as "more or less the same".

I’m always happy to read that 81 percent of Serbian people either (a) have common sense, or (b) are honest in their answering, or both.

As for the other 19%, well it’s hard to know what to say. Possibly this includes a large proportion of those who have done well out of the looting of the state and country and entire region, out of the pyramid schemes, of the massive war plunder, deliberately engineered hyperinflation, looting and illegal privatization of state companies, followed by the legalization of this theft, etc etc, that occurred mostly in the 1990s and then was continued or “legitimized” in the last decade.

It also shows that while certain people and political forces of various stripes still like to refer to the Milosevic disaster regime as a, perhaps warped, continuation of socialism, that 81% of Serbs, at least, know the difference; the basic similarity is between all the regimes post-1987 till now, in contrast to before (not in the sense that that was any golden age; what is anywhere?). That is, the 1990s were the era of primitive accumulation of capital which required massive criminality (as it does and did everywhere) and thus only partial legitimization; the remaining legitimization of the theft by Milosevic’s cronies was carried out by the regimes that replaced the, now expendable, Milosevic and put on a new face.

What is it exactly the you find about surrendering your sovereignty to the EU that is "enlightened"?
(Leo, 23 December 2010 22:56)

Maybe because they don't burn you if you state a scientific fact. Maybe because a scratch no longer means cutting your arm or even dying while your priest prays to God. Maybe because you can no longer be beheaded for being named a witch by your local church.
You can be the biggest Serb out there; but there are things out there that are known to just about anyone. If you don't buy the fact that it was the renaissance that brought us so much progress; then through your computer from your window and try to respond to my post.
Hint: To do that start praying hard, very hard. See if it works.

According to the poll coordinator Srećko Mihailović, "what seems to be the worst" in the answers is that 23 percent of respondents think that Serbia is governed by criminals,

Mr.Mihailovic you are a tool in the hands of the west that wants to destroy Serbia.Even if the people think that criminals govern Serbia you should not publish it.Traitor.
(Mark, 23 December 2010 18:24)

What you are suggesting is that we take the path that some recent democracies have taken. Doing what you are suggesting would be an obvious insult to Truth, and to a great majority of Serbia's population. Most of Serbia's citizens, I being one, are tired of her past Governors that kept us in the dark on our social and domestic issues. As far as foreign affairs go, which are international political chess and poker games, we have to learn to trust and believe in those that we've elected, and help them by guiding them with our criticism and approvals through our freedom of press and freedom of expression which are the core of a democracy. This present administration knows what it takes to make a strong democratic society. It's simple! Observe, study,and don't make the same mistakes that other democracies did.

We are a new democracy, and this young administration has given us freedom of speech in all mediums available.Wouldn't you agree, my dear fellow poster? With all these supreme freedoms we can all finally decide and speak for ourselves what and whom we like and dislike, and give our final presentations at the ballot boxes freely and without fear of repercussions. Like all new democracies, their goals are long-term,and those selfish ones that are looking for instant riches and gratification will always have a hair up their arse or a bone to pick about something or other. Most of the Serbs in the diaspora seem to forget that it's not all about Serbs, as Serbia is a multi ethnic and a colorful society where all citizens have equal rights,representation and a stake in her future. Our diversity is what makes us so lovely!!!

There is no such a place on our planet where all of the people and parties are satisfied--but in modern Democratic Serbia, at least they are free to bitch, moan, protest, be happy and go to the ballot boxes without being threatened and intimidated.

That's democracy and the right path chosen, which we should never veer from. Like I sad years ago, these "boys" are never going to let go our province. Give them at least some political credit for the present--as they've well earned it. And for Serbia's sake in these uncertain, turbulent times, give them moral support and your positive energy, and pray for them--as they are our boys in "battle" for a better and healthier Serbia.

Happy Holidays, and a very Happy New Year to all the posters and staff on B92.

"Which means I will just bypass your postings as I have been doing theirs."
(Pro Truth + Western Values!!!, 23 December 2010 19:54)

Feel free to bypass my posts. And of course it was sarcastic, because many people like to glorify the good old times, how things have been much, much better before, and everything is deteriorating nowadays. This happens in every country in transition. Even a high percentage of people in former east Germany think that way! Though they/the region have received support of more than a trillion German marks in the last 20 years. In fact, it's all relative. Nowadays, in the average, people are more wealthy, live longer, work less, and have more freedom. Of course there has been more security in the old times: An (almost) guaranteed job, though often not even self chosen. People have been less selfish, maybe, and more supportive amongst each other.

johnny...

Who sucked who's resources??
I don't know whether you're insulting the Slovenians, or pumping up the Macedonians?

Manure flows downhill in every sense of the word, and once you get this simple concept, you'll understand who's suckling at the spilt milk..

(johny, 23 December 2010 21:39) - and don't forget that anyone who couldn't find a job could go to Western Europe and make enough to send money home to keep the family going. Germany's going to be needing immigrants again soon, and once things pick up again, the rest of Europe. It can't come soon enough.