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Monday, 20.12.2010.

16:07

Kosovo will be viewed differently, says Tadić

The international community will see the Kosovo problem with different eyes after a report on crimes committed against Serbs, Boris Tadić believes.

Izvor: Beta

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24 Komentari

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johny

pre 13 godina

...All that you write, in spite of the fact that the Hague Cooperation Council head Rasim Ljajić announced that Serbia will "enter a diplomatic offensive in all international forums in order to bring this case to its conclusion".

-- Still waiting. Serbs say a lot of things. There are still no actions being taken. All they've been doing is gathering a few Serb journalists. Still waitning for one of these guys to actually go and demand what they state to the journalists, to the worlds most powerful body the UNSC.

"Hearing what Ljajić said, you replied that in order to believe Ljajić's words, Serbia should have taken the matter to the UNSC already last week! Well, why not then already a month ago? Think a bit. "

-- That is actually a very good question. Thank you for posing such question. Yea really why not last month? Why not 2 years ago? Its been two years since the Serb prosecutor claims he has solid proof, solid evidence on this case? Why the apathy for 2 long years? Why not be proactive and request from the highest international organization an urgent investigation on this and its support and mandate on this? Why not do that but hush and be totally passive for 2 long years? Why? Why the total apathy when for a phone line it took Serbia 48 hours to demand action from the UNSC over phone line? Why? Why withhold evidence from EULEX for over two years but now demand a fast pace? Why?

"Are you, johny, living in the same Disneyland closet as Mr. Kouchner, and reading the same Mickey Mouse magazine as him? "

-- Nice try at irony. Try harder next time. The skepticism stems from the total apathy of the Serb state. If the most interested party on this matter has been so lethargic over this matter for years while it claims to be sitting on piles of evidence; then we cannot be anything else but skeptic. Yet we urge Serbia to take this to the highest and most powerful international instances. It still hasn't done so. This leaves more room for further skepticism. Again right now Serbia has plenty of mouth but no concrete action at all. They declare things to the media but they aren't doing anything where it matters. No evidence given to EULEX yet; UNSC hasn't been approached yet, the Hague prosecutor hasn't been approached yet. Nothing is being done by Serbia. This passivity doesn't match their declarations. This is total apathy over an issue where energetic action is needed. Hence the skepticism.

"And me personally, I haven't forgotten crimes by Serbian war criminals. But you can't ride on them from here to eternity, and whitewash your own dirty laundry during your ride."

-- Listen, personally I could care less whether Thaci remains in power or not. I could care less whether you forgot the crimes of the Serb war criminals or not. It makes no difference to me. My family members that fell victim to the war are there no longer and whether you forgot or not those who killed them makes no difference; they are not alive anymore and that's what counts; their memory counts not yours.
Now back to the issue. I will repeat what I say above. My skepticism arises from the total apathy of the Serb state. They've been lethargic for years. I explained that above. However as skeptic as I am, I have been urging for a thorough international investigation. That is where I personally stand; lets investigate this thing as soon as possible. This is too urgent of a matter to waste time posing for Serb newspapers. If they really want to pose somewhere do it in front of the world media in front of the UNSC office. I urge the Serb government to hold a UNSC meeting so this investigation has strong support, a strong mandate and some real teeth. Its been about one week now and I still have to see one Serb poster supporting me in this call. One single one would do. As long as this remains the same my skepticism grows.

Zoti

pre 13 godina

What all kalb trolls don't seem to understand is that Serbia has paid for it's crimes. The Croats, Bosniaks and Kalbs havent. What goes round, comes round, eventually.
(Srboljub, 21 December 2010)

And what do Serbs trolls suggest as punishment for the Albanians?
What about Bosnians? Srebrenica wasn't enough of a punishment?
Carving out Republika Srspska out of Bosnia either?
What more of a punishment would you prefer for the Bosnians?

Olli

pre 13 godina

Staff,

There are people working on the Racak case, but, as the case is very sensitive no matter what is the final outcome of research, there are influential parties and persons calling off the work. Neither is Belgrade very co-operative as she is unwilling to deliver her total knowledge about the case. Belgrade knows name by name all Serbian troops placed in that time in the area, but is reluctant to hand over this information. Belgrade also knows pretty well, but not by 100 per cent, the names of persons belonging to paramilitary groups in the area.

Then there is much inconsistency among the Albanian testimonies, but also there finding the origin of information has proved to be very difficult.

Then another matter. You write:

"It will sure be interesting to read and hear the K Albanian reaction when its [claims in Marty's report] proven right."

I can already now tell how the reaction most likely will turn out to look like. I remember in 2002 when I did interviews in Belgrade about the Srebrenica case. Naturally all reactions existed: ones that called mass murder claims as anti-Serbian propaganda, ones calling it all simply as lies, ones that reflected uncertainty or fear, ones that saw the mass murder as an unfortunate possibility, and finally those who believed that the mass murder existed and that Mladic and (mainly Bosnian) Serb troops are guilty. So no any surprises here.

But what is interesting is the part of people who denied the mass murder and the quilt of Serbian troops. It wasn't at all so simple to think of these people that they just denied the fact or spoke against their better knowledge. In fact many of them who admitted the possibility of the mass murder spoke against their knowledge. You see, lots of people WERE EDUCATED to possess values that among others told that not in any case a Serbian fighter would harm an unarmed enemy fighter nor a civilian. It was believed to be a Serbian value, portraying the the Serbian people, portraying Serbian soul. And many also lived, fought and died according these values. Now it was very very hard, for some people impossible, to go against that knowledge of Serbianhood. They could not believe that Serbs could commit in the crime of mass murder and in the crime of breaking the Serbian soul and values.

I remember an elderly lady, with tears in her eyes, telling me "a Serbian person, a Serbian fighter cannot not do such a thing, commit such a crime, ...could he?"

You can of course see that similar values and ethics exist universally, and that they are also broken universally. So we can see that they are as artificial anywhere, as artificial among all peoples and nations. But nevertheless, they also exist as true values. Also among Albanians.

Therefore it's very difficult for me, in fact impossible, to wish for any particular outcome in this Marty versus Thaci case, or any other than simply the truth.

Top

pre 13 godina

" It is quite fun to read the K Albanians reaction. Dick Marty, an extremely skilled and educated prosecutor with dozens of international experts in his team are neglected by the Albanians as biased??!"
(Staff, 21 December 2010 10:35)
Funny indeed. Maybe a tragical kind of fun. Everybody knows that Marty is as biased and anti-Albanian as the ICTY is biased and anti-Serbian.

Srboljub

pre 13 godina

What all kalb trolls don't seem to understand is that Serbia has paid for it's crimes. The Croats, Bosniaks and Kalbs havent. What goes round, comes round, eventually.

Staff

pre 13 godina

It sure is boiling in diplomatic circles after this report. It will sure be interresting to raed and hear the K Albanians reaction when its proven right. It has gone to far to neglect it and EU will press for a comprehensive investigation before anything is settled with Kosovo anymore. It is quite fun to read the K Albanians reaction. Dick Marty, an extremely skilled and educated prosecutor with dozens of international experts in his team are neglected by the Albanians as biased??! This will be fun how they will try to slip away. I have a question for the readers. I have got information that the Racak-case is also under a huge investigation. Can anyone who knows this confirm.

L-pz

pre 13 godina

Sorry micheal , I'm not having that (read this one click away for your buddies "war crimes for paramilitaries"this is one of so many mass murders of innocent civilians)

nick

pre 13 godina

Nice to see articles in the Economist today about Thaci with regards to the murder of civilians for their organs, and his rigging the election. Hopefully the international press expose will continue. In addition, it is time for Serbia to learn the powerful PR techniques that her enemies used against it for so many years. Do this long enough, to use a metaphor, like a boa constrictor, and what is Serbia's will remain Serbia's. Kosovo is Serbia.

Olli

pre 13 godina

johny,

Although you frequently like to prove the view that your comments, filled with falsehoods, are not meant to be taken seriously, but as flashes from your amusing Pythonesque (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Pythonesque?rdfrom=pythonesque) logic, may I present you some matters from the real world, no matter how uninteresting (read: truthful) you certainly must find them.

johny, for 4 days you were anxiously crying why official Serbia didn't publicly comment on Marty's report. Now when it did, after cleverly following other institutions first engaging themselves into debate, you still aren't pleased but continue your cry in this way:

"[...] as long as Serbia refuses to bring this to UNSC and other international investigative bodies [...] refusal on Serbia's part [...] can only be seen as an attempt to discredit Kosova through rumors [...]. If this was a sincere attempt to seek the truth Serbia would be at the UNSC seeking and forcefully requesting an investigation [...], rather than requesting an investigation from a few Serb journalists."

Your cry continues: "Why are you and Serbia so afraid to take proactive actions?"

All that you write, in spite of the fact that the Hague Cooperation Council head Rasim Ljajić announced that Serbia will "enter a diplomatic offensive in all international forums in order to bring this case to its conclusion".

Hearing what Ljajić said, you replied that in order to believe Ljajić's words, Serbia should have taken the matter to the UNSC already last week! Well, why not then already a month ago? Think a bit.

Are you, johny, living in the same Disneyland closet as Mr. Kouchner, and reading the same Mickey Mouse magazine as him?

And me personally, I haven't forgotten crimes by Serbian war criminals. But you can't ride on them from here to eternity, and whitewash your own dirty laundry during your ride.

Mark

pre 13 godina

Kosovo will be viewed differently, says Tadić

Maybe, but Serbia will be viewed the same.The main factor of destability in the region and the main culprit of four wars.There are no crimes from Albanians,Croatians,Bosnians,Slovenians that match the serbian atrocities. Wait for the next mass grave they will find. There is one almost every month Mr.Innocent.

Predrag

pre 13 godina

Thaci/Snake is a mass murdering organ thief.
He does not qualify as an animal let alone as a human being!
How can Tadić even contemplate being in the same room with this monster let alone contemplate any type of meeting with him/it?

Thaci and his criminal empire does not need to be "healed" it needs to be wiped out!

Kujto

pre 13 godina

I agree, it will. Thaci just told Dick to start hiring lawyers, if he can even find one, to defend the indefensible.

Serbia is toast, EU /EULEX is not thrilled at this Ruso-Serb trick.

I know how this end: Dick will weasel out and claim immunity for his lies hoping to save his pension...until he bumps into some kid with a last name he slandered. The end.

johny

pre 13 godina

"Tadić called for a "wide-reaching and comprehensive investigation" that would determine "if such crimes occurred in Kosovo and Metohija, and who perpetrated them". He also expressed hope that such an investigation would shed the light on the creation of the co-called state of Kosovo. "

-- How about you express this at a UNSC meeting rather than in front of journalist. Why are you and Serbia so afraid to take proactive actions? The UNSC is where you officially request an investigation not before a journalist. Why are you not doing that?

"Asked whether there was "a change" in his stance toward Hashim Thaci - who was named in the report as being responsible for the grave crimes committed against Serbs and other civilians in Kosovo - Tadić said that he was "representing Serbia's public interest, rather than acting publicly based on personal favors". "

-- I have this feeling that such talks won't be happening soon. Serbia, through Marty. just poisoned the atmosphere for such talks; calculating that everyone would go against Thaci if rumors are thrown out there. However just about anyone on this side of the isle seems to see things in a totally different way for as long as Serbia refuses to bring this to UNSC and other international investigative bodies. Such refusal on Serbia's part to take proactive actions can only be seen as an attempt to discredit Kosova through rumors rather than as a sincere attempt to seek the truth. If this was a sincere attempt to seek the truth Serbia would be at the UNSC seeking and forcefully requesting an investigation to seek the truth, mandated by the UNSC, rather than requesting an investigation from a few Serb journalists.

Top

pre 13 godina

"Kosovo will be viewed differently, says Tadić"

No, not differently. I would prefer to say: Now the view on Kosovo becomes more clear. The Marty report confirmed the view. Though, it's not about the state of Kosovo, but their officials, leaders, government - unfortunately, the same people have been reelected - and that's what is damaging the fame of Kosovo.

highduke

pre 13 godina

The TIMING of the report is peculiar. The whole thing is a Serb-Russian orchestrated initiative to weaken Thaci's credibility to make him more pliable during re-integration

PRN

pre 13 godina

"Kosovo will be viewed differently, says Tadić"

Rest assure that Kosovo will now as FULLY FLEDGED state, even more so after failed lies, didn't achieve their intention.

One thing that we all understand is that Kosovo cannot stay independent for a lot of time.

Kosovo is Albania and we are heading there. PERIOD.

EA

pre 13 godina

Now that "picture" has changed thanks to the Swiss senator and his report, the president said.

"....in the past decade, the "Serb nation was presented as the sole culprit for the events in the former Yugoslavia," but added he was hopeful that the Marty report would spell an end to that approach.

Serbia make most of this report! The world knows who is Dick Marty, anti Kosovo independence, an anti Albanian. If he really feels strongly about his allegations he who should take the matter to the Court of Law. Thaci has warned that all political and legal actions will be taken against Dick Marti. The outcome would be either Thaci proved guilty and be punished according to law, or Dick Marti not hidden from his immunity as a senator or EU rapporter, taken to Court from slander or to mental hospital for treatment.

miri

pre 13 godina

There has never been any doubt that Serbia was waiting for such report. However Serbia will spin the media speculations (because so far all we have is media speculations) everyone knows that the wars did not take place in Serbia. Every single ballkan war took place outside Serbia's turf, Slovenia, Croatia, BH, and Kosova. Serbia was the attacker and the rest were the defenders. No matter what the Dick says, no matter what is going to happen to Thaci and no matter what Tadic says Kosova will be forever out of reach of Serbia and will grow independently as a sovereign nation.

miri

pre 13 godina

There has never been any doubt that Serbia was waiting for such report. However Serbia will spin the media speculations (because so far all we have is media speculations) everyone knows that the wars did not take place in Serbia. Every single ballkan war took place outside Serbia's turf, Slovenia, Croatia, BH, and Kosova. Serbia was the attacker and the rest were the defenders. No matter what the Dick says, no matter what is going to happen to Thaci and no matter what Tadic says Kosova will be forever out of reach of Serbia and will grow independently as a sovereign nation.

Predrag

pre 13 godina

Thaci/Snake is a mass murdering organ thief.
He does not qualify as an animal let alone as a human being!
How can Tadić even contemplate being in the same room with this monster let alone contemplate any type of meeting with him/it?

Thaci and his criminal empire does not need to be "healed" it needs to be wiped out!

Top

pre 13 godina

"Kosovo will be viewed differently, says Tadić"

No, not differently. I would prefer to say: Now the view on Kosovo becomes more clear. The Marty report confirmed the view. Though, it's not about the state of Kosovo, but their officials, leaders, government - unfortunately, the same people have been reelected - and that's what is damaging the fame of Kosovo.

Staff

pre 13 godina

It sure is boiling in diplomatic circles after this report. It will sure be interresting to raed and hear the K Albanians reaction when its proven right. It has gone to far to neglect it and EU will press for a comprehensive investigation before anything is settled with Kosovo anymore. It is quite fun to read the K Albanians reaction. Dick Marty, an extremely skilled and educated prosecutor with dozens of international experts in his team are neglected by the Albanians as biased??! This will be fun how they will try to slip away. I have a question for the readers. I have got information that the Racak-case is also under a huge investigation. Can anyone who knows this confirm.

EA

pre 13 godina

Now that "picture" has changed thanks to the Swiss senator and his report, the president said.

"....in the past decade, the "Serb nation was presented as the sole culprit for the events in the former Yugoslavia," but added he was hopeful that the Marty report would spell an end to that approach.

Serbia make most of this report! The world knows who is Dick Marty, anti Kosovo independence, an anti Albanian. If he really feels strongly about his allegations he who should take the matter to the Court of Law. Thaci has warned that all political and legal actions will be taken against Dick Marti. The outcome would be either Thaci proved guilty and be punished according to law, or Dick Marti not hidden from his immunity as a senator or EU rapporter, taken to Court from slander or to mental hospital for treatment.

highduke

pre 13 godina

The TIMING of the report is peculiar. The whole thing is a Serb-Russian orchestrated initiative to weaken Thaci's credibility to make him more pliable during re-integration

PRN

pre 13 godina

"Kosovo will be viewed differently, says Tadić"

Rest assure that Kosovo will now as FULLY FLEDGED state, even more so after failed lies, didn't achieve their intention.

One thing that we all understand is that Kosovo cannot stay independent for a lot of time.

Kosovo is Albania and we are heading there. PERIOD.

Srboljub

pre 13 godina

What all kalb trolls don't seem to understand is that Serbia has paid for it's crimes. The Croats, Bosniaks and Kalbs havent. What goes round, comes round, eventually.

johny

pre 13 godina

"Tadić called for a "wide-reaching and comprehensive investigation" that would determine "if such crimes occurred in Kosovo and Metohija, and who perpetrated them". He also expressed hope that such an investigation would shed the light on the creation of the co-called state of Kosovo. "

-- How about you express this at a UNSC meeting rather than in front of journalist. Why are you and Serbia so afraid to take proactive actions? The UNSC is where you officially request an investigation not before a journalist. Why are you not doing that?

"Asked whether there was "a change" in his stance toward Hashim Thaci - who was named in the report as being responsible for the grave crimes committed against Serbs and other civilians in Kosovo - Tadić said that he was "representing Serbia's public interest, rather than acting publicly based on personal favors". "

-- I have this feeling that such talks won't be happening soon. Serbia, through Marty. just poisoned the atmosphere for such talks; calculating that everyone would go against Thaci if rumors are thrown out there. However just about anyone on this side of the isle seems to see things in a totally different way for as long as Serbia refuses to bring this to UNSC and other international investigative bodies. Such refusal on Serbia's part to take proactive actions can only be seen as an attempt to discredit Kosova through rumors rather than as a sincere attempt to seek the truth. If this was a sincere attempt to seek the truth Serbia would be at the UNSC seeking and forcefully requesting an investigation to seek the truth, mandated by the UNSC, rather than requesting an investigation from a few Serb journalists.

Olli

pre 13 godina

Staff,

There are people working on the Racak case, but, as the case is very sensitive no matter what is the final outcome of research, there are influential parties and persons calling off the work. Neither is Belgrade very co-operative as she is unwilling to deliver her total knowledge about the case. Belgrade knows name by name all Serbian troops placed in that time in the area, but is reluctant to hand over this information. Belgrade also knows pretty well, but not by 100 per cent, the names of persons belonging to paramilitary groups in the area.

Then there is much inconsistency among the Albanian testimonies, but also there finding the origin of information has proved to be very difficult.

Then another matter. You write:

"It will sure be interesting to read and hear the K Albanian reaction when its [claims in Marty's report] proven right."

I can already now tell how the reaction most likely will turn out to look like. I remember in 2002 when I did interviews in Belgrade about the Srebrenica case. Naturally all reactions existed: ones that called mass murder claims as anti-Serbian propaganda, ones calling it all simply as lies, ones that reflected uncertainty or fear, ones that saw the mass murder as an unfortunate possibility, and finally those who believed that the mass murder existed and that Mladic and (mainly Bosnian) Serb troops are guilty. So no any surprises here.

But what is interesting is the part of people who denied the mass murder and the quilt of Serbian troops. It wasn't at all so simple to think of these people that they just denied the fact or spoke against their better knowledge. In fact many of them who admitted the possibility of the mass murder spoke against their knowledge. You see, lots of people WERE EDUCATED to possess values that among others told that not in any case a Serbian fighter would harm an unarmed enemy fighter nor a civilian. It was believed to be a Serbian value, portraying the the Serbian people, portraying Serbian soul. And many also lived, fought and died according these values. Now it was very very hard, for some people impossible, to go against that knowledge of Serbianhood. They could not believe that Serbs could commit in the crime of mass murder and in the crime of breaking the Serbian soul and values.

I remember an elderly lady, with tears in her eyes, telling me "a Serbian person, a Serbian fighter cannot not do such a thing, commit such a crime, ...could he?"

You can of course see that similar values and ethics exist universally, and that they are also broken universally. So we can see that they are as artificial anywhere, as artificial among all peoples and nations. But nevertheless, they also exist as true values. Also among Albanians.

Therefore it's very difficult for me, in fact impossible, to wish for any particular outcome in this Marty versus Thaci case, or any other than simply the truth.

Kujto

pre 13 godina

I agree, it will. Thaci just told Dick to start hiring lawyers, if he can even find one, to defend the indefensible.

Serbia is toast, EU /EULEX is not thrilled at this Ruso-Serb trick.

I know how this end: Dick will weasel out and claim immunity for his lies hoping to save his pension...until he bumps into some kid with a last name he slandered. The end.

Olli

pre 13 godina

johny,

Although you frequently like to prove the view that your comments, filled with falsehoods, are not meant to be taken seriously, but as flashes from your amusing Pythonesque (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Pythonesque?rdfrom=pythonesque) logic, may I present you some matters from the real world, no matter how uninteresting (read: truthful) you certainly must find them.

johny, for 4 days you were anxiously crying why official Serbia didn't publicly comment on Marty's report. Now when it did, after cleverly following other institutions first engaging themselves into debate, you still aren't pleased but continue your cry in this way:

"[...] as long as Serbia refuses to bring this to UNSC and other international investigative bodies [...] refusal on Serbia's part [...] can only be seen as an attempt to discredit Kosova through rumors [...]. If this was a sincere attempt to seek the truth Serbia would be at the UNSC seeking and forcefully requesting an investigation [...], rather than requesting an investigation from a few Serb journalists."

Your cry continues: "Why are you and Serbia so afraid to take proactive actions?"

All that you write, in spite of the fact that the Hague Cooperation Council head Rasim Ljajić announced that Serbia will "enter a diplomatic offensive in all international forums in order to bring this case to its conclusion".

Hearing what Ljajić said, you replied that in order to believe Ljajić's words, Serbia should have taken the matter to the UNSC already last week! Well, why not then already a month ago? Think a bit.

Are you, johny, living in the same Disneyland closet as Mr. Kouchner, and reading the same Mickey Mouse magazine as him?

And me personally, I haven't forgotten crimes by Serbian war criminals. But you can't ride on them from here to eternity, and whitewash your own dirty laundry during your ride.

nick

pre 13 godina

Nice to see articles in the Economist today about Thaci with regards to the murder of civilians for their organs, and his rigging the election. Hopefully the international press expose will continue. In addition, it is time for Serbia to learn the powerful PR techniques that her enemies used against it for so many years. Do this long enough, to use a metaphor, like a boa constrictor, and what is Serbia's will remain Serbia's. Kosovo is Serbia.

Zoti

pre 13 godina

What all kalb trolls don't seem to understand is that Serbia has paid for it's crimes. The Croats, Bosniaks and Kalbs havent. What goes round, comes round, eventually.
(Srboljub, 21 December 2010)

And what do Serbs trolls suggest as punishment for the Albanians?
What about Bosnians? Srebrenica wasn't enough of a punishment?
Carving out Republika Srspska out of Bosnia either?
What more of a punishment would you prefer for the Bosnians?

johny

pre 13 godina

...All that you write, in spite of the fact that the Hague Cooperation Council head Rasim Ljajić announced that Serbia will "enter a diplomatic offensive in all international forums in order to bring this case to its conclusion".

-- Still waiting. Serbs say a lot of things. There are still no actions being taken. All they've been doing is gathering a few Serb journalists. Still waitning for one of these guys to actually go and demand what they state to the journalists, to the worlds most powerful body the UNSC.

"Hearing what Ljajić said, you replied that in order to believe Ljajić's words, Serbia should have taken the matter to the UNSC already last week! Well, why not then already a month ago? Think a bit. "

-- That is actually a very good question. Thank you for posing such question. Yea really why not last month? Why not 2 years ago? Its been two years since the Serb prosecutor claims he has solid proof, solid evidence on this case? Why the apathy for 2 long years? Why not be proactive and request from the highest international organization an urgent investigation on this and its support and mandate on this? Why not do that but hush and be totally passive for 2 long years? Why? Why the total apathy when for a phone line it took Serbia 48 hours to demand action from the UNSC over phone line? Why? Why withhold evidence from EULEX for over two years but now demand a fast pace? Why?

"Are you, johny, living in the same Disneyland closet as Mr. Kouchner, and reading the same Mickey Mouse magazine as him? "

-- Nice try at irony. Try harder next time. The skepticism stems from the total apathy of the Serb state. If the most interested party on this matter has been so lethargic over this matter for years while it claims to be sitting on piles of evidence; then we cannot be anything else but skeptic. Yet we urge Serbia to take this to the highest and most powerful international instances. It still hasn't done so. This leaves more room for further skepticism. Again right now Serbia has plenty of mouth but no concrete action at all. They declare things to the media but they aren't doing anything where it matters. No evidence given to EULEX yet; UNSC hasn't been approached yet, the Hague prosecutor hasn't been approached yet. Nothing is being done by Serbia. This passivity doesn't match their declarations. This is total apathy over an issue where energetic action is needed. Hence the skepticism.

"And me personally, I haven't forgotten crimes by Serbian war criminals. But you can't ride on them from here to eternity, and whitewash your own dirty laundry during your ride."

-- Listen, personally I could care less whether Thaci remains in power or not. I could care less whether you forgot the crimes of the Serb war criminals or not. It makes no difference to me. My family members that fell victim to the war are there no longer and whether you forgot or not those who killed them makes no difference; they are not alive anymore and that's what counts; their memory counts not yours.
Now back to the issue. I will repeat what I say above. My skepticism arises from the total apathy of the Serb state. They've been lethargic for years. I explained that above. However as skeptic as I am, I have been urging for a thorough international investigation. That is where I personally stand; lets investigate this thing as soon as possible. This is too urgent of a matter to waste time posing for Serb newspapers. If they really want to pose somewhere do it in front of the world media in front of the UNSC office. I urge the Serb government to hold a UNSC meeting so this investigation has strong support, a strong mandate and some real teeth. Its been about one week now and I still have to see one Serb poster supporting me in this call. One single one would do. As long as this remains the same my skepticism grows.

Mark

pre 13 godina

Kosovo will be viewed differently, says Tadić

Maybe, but Serbia will be viewed the same.The main factor of destability in the region and the main culprit of four wars.There are no crimes from Albanians,Croatians,Bosnians,Slovenians that match the serbian atrocities. Wait for the next mass grave they will find. There is one almost every month Mr.Innocent.

Top

pre 13 godina

" It is quite fun to read the K Albanians reaction. Dick Marty, an extremely skilled and educated prosecutor with dozens of international experts in his team are neglected by the Albanians as biased??!"
(Staff, 21 December 2010 10:35)
Funny indeed. Maybe a tragical kind of fun. Everybody knows that Marty is as biased and anti-Albanian as the ICTY is biased and anti-Serbian.

L-pz

pre 13 godina

Sorry micheal , I'm not having that (read this one click away for your buddies "war crimes for paramilitaries"this is one of so many mass murders of innocent civilians)

miri

pre 13 godina

There has never been any doubt that Serbia was waiting for such report. However Serbia will spin the media speculations (because so far all we have is media speculations) everyone knows that the wars did not take place in Serbia. Every single ballkan war took place outside Serbia's turf, Slovenia, Croatia, BH, and Kosova. Serbia was the attacker and the rest were the defenders. No matter what the Dick says, no matter what is going to happen to Thaci and no matter what Tadic says Kosova will be forever out of reach of Serbia and will grow independently as a sovereign nation.

PRN

pre 13 godina

"Kosovo will be viewed differently, says Tadić"

Rest assure that Kosovo will now as FULLY FLEDGED state, even more so after failed lies, didn't achieve their intention.

One thing that we all understand is that Kosovo cannot stay independent for a lot of time.

Kosovo is Albania and we are heading there. PERIOD.

EA

pre 13 godina

Now that "picture" has changed thanks to the Swiss senator and his report, the president said.

"....in the past decade, the "Serb nation was presented as the sole culprit for the events in the former Yugoslavia," but added he was hopeful that the Marty report would spell an end to that approach.

Serbia make most of this report! The world knows who is Dick Marty, anti Kosovo independence, an anti Albanian. If he really feels strongly about his allegations he who should take the matter to the Court of Law. Thaci has warned that all political and legal actions will be taken against Dick Marti. The outcome would be either Thaci proved guilty and be punished according to law, or Dick Marti not hidden from his immunity as a senator or EU rapporter, taken to Court from slander or to mental hospital for treatment.

Kujto

pre 13 godina

I agree, it will. Thaci just told Dick to start hiring lawyers, if he can even find one, to defend the indefensible.

Serbia is toast, EU /EULEX is not thrilled at this Ruso-Serb trick.

I know how this end: Dick will weasel out and claim immunity for his lies hoping to save his pension...until he bumps into some kid with a last name he slandered. The end.

highduke

pre 13 godina

The TIMING of the report is peculiar. The whole thing is a Serb-Russian orchestrated initiative to weaken Thaci's credibility to make him more pliable during re-integration

johny

pre 13 godina

"Tadić called for a "wide-reaching and comprehensive investigation" that would determine "if such crimes occurred in Kosovo and Metohija, and who perpetrated them". He also expressed hope that such an investigation would shed the light on the creation of the co-called state of Kosovo. "

-- How about you express this at a UNSC meeting rather than in front of journalist. Why are you and Serbia so afraid to take proactive actions? The UNSC is where you officially request an investigation not before a journalist. Why are you not doing that?

"Asked whether there was "a change" in his stance toward Hashim Thaci - who was named in the report as being responsible for the grave crimes committed against Serbs and other civilians in Kosovo - Tadić said that he was "representing Serbia's public interest, rather than acting publicly based on personal favors". "

-- I have this feeling that such talks won't be happening soon. Serbia, through Marty. just poisoned the atmosphere for such talks; calculating that everyone would go against Thaci if rumors are thrown out there. However just about anyone on this side of the isle seems to see things in a totally different way for as long as Serbia refuses to bring this to UNSC and other international investigative bodies. Such refusal on Serbia's part to take proactive actions can only be seen as an attempt to discredit Kosova through rumors rather than as a sincere attempt to seek the truth. If this was a sincere attempt to seek the truth Serbia would be at the UNSC seeking and forcefully requesting an investigation to seek the truth, mandated by the UNSC, rather than requesting an investigation from a few Serb journalists.

Top

pre 13 godina

"Kosovo will be viewed differently, says Tadić"

No, not differently. I would prefer to say: Now the view on Kosovo becomes more clear. The Marty report confirmed the view. Though, it's not about the state of Kosovo, but their officials, leaders, government - unfortunately, the same people have been reelected - and that's what is damaging the fame of Kosovo.

Predrag

pre 13 godina

Thaci/Snake is a mass murdering organ thief.
He does not qualify as an animal let alone as a human being!
How can Tadić even contemplate being in the same room with this monster let alone contemplate any type of meeting with him/it?

Thaci and his criminal empire does not need to be "healed" it needs to be wiped out!

Mark

pre 13 godina

Kosovo will be viewed differently, says Tadić

Maybe, but Serbia will be viewed the same.The main factor of destability in the region and the main culprit of four wars.There are no crimes from Albanians,Croatians,Bosnians,Slovenians that match the serbian atrocities. Wait for the next mass grave they will find. There is one almost every month Mr.Innocent.

Zoti

pre 13 godina

What all kalb trolls don't seem to understand is that Serbia has paid for it's crimes. The Croats, Bosniaks and Kalbs havent. What goes round, comes round, eventually.
(Srboljub, 21 December 2010)

And what do Serbs trolls suggest as punishment for the Albanians?
What about Bosnians? Srebrenica wasn't enough of a punishment?
Carving out Republika Srspska out of Bosnia either?
What more of a punishment would you prefer for the Bosnians?

nick

pre 13 godina

Nice to see articles in the Economist today about Thaci with regards to the murder of civilians for their organs, and his rigging the election. Hopefully the international press expose will continue. In addition, it is time for Serbia to learn the powerful PR techniques that her enemies used against it for so many years. Do this long enough, to use a metaphor, like a boa constrictor, and what is Serbia's will remain Serbia's. Kosovo is Serbia.

L-pz

pre 13 godina

Sorry micheal , I'm not having that (read this one click away for your buddies "war crimes for paramilitaries"this is one of so many mass murders of innocent civilians)

johny

pre 13 godina

...All that you write, in spite of the fact that the Hague Cooperation Council head Rasim Ljajić announced that Serbia will "enter a diplomatic offensive in all international forums in order to bring this case to its conclusion".

-- Still waiting. Serbs say a lot of things. There are still no actions being taken. All they've been doing is gathering a few Serb journalists. Still waitning for one of these guys to actually go and demand what they state to the journalists, to the worlds most powerful body the UNSC.

"Hearing what Ljajić said, you replied that in order to believe Ljajić's words, Serbia should have taken the matter to the UNSC already last week! Well, why not then already a month ago? Think a bit. "

-- That is actually a very good question. Thank you for posing such question. Yea really why not last month? Why not 2 years ago? Its been two years since the Serb prosecutor claims he has solid proof, solid evidence on this case? Why the apathy for 2 long years? Why not be proactive and request from the highest international organization an urgent investigation on this and its support and mandate on this? Why not do that but hush and be totally passive for 2 long years? Why? Why the total apathy when for a phone line it took Serbia 48 hours to demand action from the UNSC over phone line? Why? Why withhold evidence from EULEX for over two years but now demand a fast pace? Why?

"Are you, johny, living in the same Disneyland closet as Mr. Kouchner, and reading the same Mickey Mouse magazine as him? "

-- Nice try at irony. Try harder next time. The skepticism stems from the total apathy of the Serb state. If the most interested party on this matter has been so lethargic over this matter for years while it claims to be sitting on piles of evidence; then we cannot be anything else but skeptic. Yet we urge Serbia to take this to the highest and most powerful international instances. It still hasn't done so. This leaves more room for further skepticism. Again right now Serbia has plenty of mouth but no concrete action at all. They declare things to the media but they aren't doing anything where it matters. No evidence given to EULEX yet; UNSC hasn't been approached yet, the Hague prosecutor hasn't been approached yet. Nothing is being done by Serbia. This passivity doesn't match their declarations. This is total apathy over an issue where energetic action is needed. Hence the skepticism.

"And me personally, I haven't forgotten crimes by Serbian war criminals. But you can't ride on them from here to eternity, and whitewash your own dirty laundry during your ride."

-- Listen, personally I could care less whether Thaci remains in power or not. I could care less whether you forgot the crimes of the Serb war criminals or not. It makes no difference to me. My family members that fell victim to the war are there no longer and whether you forgot or not those who killed them makes no difference; they are not alive anymore and that's what counts; their memory counts not yours.
Now back to the issue. I will repeat what I say above. My skepticism arises from the total apathy of the Serb state. They've been lethargic for years. I explained that above. However as skeptic as I am, I have been urging for a thorough international investigation. That is where I personally stand; lets investigate this thing as soon as possible. This is too urgent of a matter to waste time posing for Serb newspapers. If they really want to pose somewhere do it in front of the world media in front of the UNSC office. I urge the Serb government to hold a UNSC meeting so this investigation has strong support, a strong mandate and some real teeth. Its been about one week now and I still have to see one Serb poster supporting me in this call. One single one would do. As long as this remains the same my skepticism grows.

Srboljub

pre 13 godina

What all kalb trolls don't seem to understand is that Serbia has paid for it's crimes. The Croats, Bosniaks and Kalbs havent. What goes round, comes round, eventually.

Top

pre 13 godina

" It is quite fun to read the K Albanians reaction. Dick Marty, an extremely skilled and educated prosecutor with dozens of international experts in his team are neglected by the Albanians as biased??!"
(Staff, 21 December 2010 10:35)
Funny indeed. Maybe a tragical kind of fun. Everybody knows that Marty is as biased and anti-Albanian as the ICTY is biased and anti-Serbian.

Olli

pre 13 godina

johny,

Although you frequently like to prove the view that your comments, filled with falsehoods, are not meant to be taken seriously, but as flashes from your amusing Pythonesque (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Pythonesque?rdfrom=pythonesque) logic, may I present you some matters from the real world, no matter how uninteresting (read: truthful) you certainly must find them.

johny, for 4 days you were anxiously crying why official Serbia didn't publicly comment on Marty's report. Now when it did, after cleverly following other institutions first engaging themselves into debate, you still aren't pleased but continue your cry in this way:

"[...] as long as Serbia refuses to bring this to UNSC and other international investigative bodies [...] refusal on Serbia's part [...] can only be seen as an attempt to discredit Kosova through rumors [...]. If this was a sincere attempt to seek the truth Serbia would be at the UNSC seeking and forcefully requesting an investigation [...], rather than requesting an investigation from a few Serb journalists."

Your cry continues: "Why are you and Serbia so afraid to take proactive actions?"

All that you write, in spite of the fact that the Hague Cooperation Council head Rasim Ljajić announced that Serbia will "enter a diplomatic offensive in all international forums in order to bring this case to its conclusion".

Hearing what Ljajić said, you replied that in order to believe Ljajić's words, Serbia should have taken the matter to the UNSC already last week! Well, why not then already a month ago? Think a bit.

Are you, johny, living in the same Disneyland closet as Mr. Kouchner, and reading the same Mickey Mouse magazine as him?

And me personally, I haven't forgotten crimes by Serbian war criminals. But you can't ride on them from here to eternity, and whitewash your own dirty laundry during your ride.

Staff

pre 13 godina

It sure is boiling in diplomatic circles after this report. It will sure be interresting to raed and hear the K Albanians reaction when its proven right. It has gone to far to neglect it and EU will press for a comprehensive investigation before anything is settled with Kosovo anymore. It is quite fun to read the K Albanians reaction. Dick Marty, an extremely skilled and educated prosecutor with dozens of international experts in his team are neglected by the Albanians as biased??! This will be fun how they will try to slip away. I have a question for the readers. I have got information that the Racak-case is also under a huge investigation. Can anyone who knows this confirm.

Olli

pre 13 godina

Staff,

There are people working on the Racak case, but, as the case is very sensitive no matter what is the final outcome of research, there are influential parties and persons calling off the work. Neither is Belgrade very co-operative as she is unwilling to deliver her total knowledge about the case. Belgrade knows name by name all Serbian troops placed in that time in the area, but is reluctant to hand over this information. Belgrade also knows pretty well, but not by 100 per cent, the names of persons belonging to paramilitary groups in the area.

Then there is much inconsistency among the Albanian testimonies, but also there finding the origin of information has proved to be very difficult.

Then another matter. You write:

"It will sure be interesting to read and hear the K Albanian reaction when its [claims in Marty's report] proven right."

I can already now tell how the reaction most likely will turn out to look like. I remember in 2002 when I did interviews in Belgrade about the Srebrenica case. Naturally all reactions existed: ones that called mass murder claims as anti-Serbian propaganda, ones calling it all simply as lies, ones that reflected uncertainty or fear, ones that saw the mass murder as an unfortunate possibility, and finally those who believed that the mass murder existed and that Mladic and (mainly Bosnian) Serb troops are guilty. So no any surprises here.

But what is interesting is the part of people who denied the mass murder and the quilt of Serbian troops. It wasn't at all so simple to think of these people that they just denied the fact or spoke against their better knowledge. In fact many of them who admitted the possibility of the mass murder spoke against their knowledge. You see, lots of people WERE EDUCATED to possess values that among others told that not in any case a Serbian fighter would harm an unarmed enemy fighter nor a civilian. It was believed to be a Serbian value, portraying the the Serbian people, portraying Serbian soul. And many also lived, fought and died according these values. Now it was very very hard, for some people impossible, to go against that knowledge of Serbianhood. They could not believe that Serbs could commit in the crime of mass murder and in the crime of breaking the Serbian soul and values.

I remember an elderly lady, with tears in her eyes, telling me "a Serbian person, a Serbian fighter cannot not do such a thing, commit such a crime, ...could he?"

You can of course see that similar values and ethics exist universally, and that they are also broken universally. So we can see that they are as artificial anywhere, as artificial among all peoples and nations. But nevertheless, they also exist as true values. Also among Albanians.

Therefore it's very difficult for me, in fact impossible, to wish for any particular outcome in this Marty versus Thaci case, or any other than simply the truth.